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Is Damon Harrison the best NYG DT of the modern era?

Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/11/2018 5:07 pm
In all of the drama of the past couple of years, I feel Snacks Harrison's story has been lost a bit. In my opinion, I don't think I've witnessed a Giants' defensive tackle as dominant as him. He has 162 tackles in two years... and these are not of the downfield variety. I would argue he was the best player on the team in 2017 and certainly was in the conversation in 2016 (with Odell and Landon).

Keith Hamilton is the only one I can think of who comes close. He was a mean enforcer who could rush the passer, but I see Harrison as an All-Pro type lineman.

It's really remarkable story. The guy wasn't drafted and the Jets let him go in free agency.
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I am 36  
Jay on the Island : 1/11/2018 6:47 pm : link
and he is the best DT the Giants have had since I have been following the team. Harrison was Reese's best FA signing by a long shot. Nobody is calling him overpaid anymore.
In my mind, Hamilton and Mendenhall were both better than Snacks.  
Ira : 1/11/2018 6:55 pm : link
Snacks plays the run better, but both of them were very good against both the run and pass. On a scale of 1-10, if Mendenhall was 10, then Hamilton was 9 and Snacks is 8.5.
I had no idea  
mrvax : 1/11/2018 6:58 pm : link
that Snacks went undrafted. I think he's better than Hamilton.
Hamilton  
Snacks : 1/11/2018 6:58 pm : link
Started off at DE didn't he?
Snacks is the best DT the Giants have ever had imo  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/11/2018 7:05 pm : link
he eats offensive lineman -- there's two or more on him on every play, and he still manages to shack them and chase after the QB

I don't get why he's not thought of as a pass rusher -- because he rushes and pressures the passer often

The real shame is that our d-ends have really not taken maximum advantage of him
shack = shake  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/11/2018 7:06 pm : link
...
Snacks sniffs out screens like nobody  
Rjanyg : 1/11/2018 7:10 pm : link
Great player
RE: Snacks is the best DT the Giants have ever had imo  
Snacks : 1/11/2018 7:11 pm : link
In comment 13783793 gidiefor said:
Quote:
he eats offensive lineman -- there's two or more on him on every play, and he still manages to shack them and chase after the QB

I don't get why he's not thought of as a pass rusher -- because he rushes and pressures the passer often

The real shame is that our d-ends have really not taken maximum advantage of him


I remember a play or two where Snacks engaged a double and knocked an OL to the ground with one arm.

I really want to know why we had such a hard time getting a rush from outside with this guy and Tomlinson in the middle.
Snacks  
Jarvis : 1/11/2018 7:13 pm : link
is an absolute beast. He single handedly kept us in games but completely shutting down the opposing running game...constantly creating 3rd and longs for the opposing team. If the rest of the team wasn't so awful he would have gotten all-pro recognition.
Snacks is #1.  
redwhiteandbigblue : 1/11/2018 7:13 pm : link
Hamilton was a better pass rusher as stated. I watched John Mendenhall's entire career. Most of his career he was the only "name" on defense so I think a lot of us older guys remember him fondly. He was very good, but undersized. For his physical stature he was terrific but I don't think he was nearly as good as Snacks is. Just my opinion.
Erik Howard  
SMitch2 : 1/11/2018 7:20 pm : link
Was an unheralded beast in the middle.
I just love how the Giants stole Snacks and Cruz ...  
Boy Cord : 1/11/2018 7:25 pm : link
... from the Jets. What a bunch of suckers.
By way of comparison  
SMitch2 : 1/11/2018 7:28 pm : link
Howard had 136 in 1989-90 seasons on a teams stacked with tackling machines. IIRC the 1990 squad is one of the top 2 or 3 low points allowed defenses of all time.
RE: Snacks is the best DT the Giants have ever had imo  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/11/2018 7:29 pm : link
In comment 13783793 gidiefor said:
Quote:
he eats offensive lineman -- there's two or more on him on every play, and he still manages to shack them and chase after the QB

I don't get why he's not thought of as a pass rusher -- because he rushes and pressures the passer often

The real shame is that our d-ends have really not taken maximum advantage of him


You'd take him easily over Keith Hamilton?
Oops, sorry. Hamilton was mentioned already.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/11/2018 7:30 pm : link
.
Cruz  
SMitch2 : 1/11/2018 7:30 pm : link
Never played for the Jets -- that was some kind of running Jason me about a Ryan gaffe, I believe
* joke  
SMitch2 : 1/11/2018 7:31 pm : link
Jason me? Wtf auto correct...
I think hes certainly close......  
Simms11 : 1/11/2018 7:40 pm : link
Jim Burt, albeit, a NT, was also pretty damn good too. I think Snacks and Tomlinson make a solid pair in the middle.
Snacks is awesome but Linval is on another level.  
NYGmen58 : 1/11/2018 7:40 pm : link
If comparing their Giants careers, Snacks has been a better Giant, but hes nowhere near the DT that Joseph is.
"Nowhere near"?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/11/2018 7:46 pm : link
Joseph hasn't made it to an All-Pro roster yet. Harrison has been on the first team. A lot closer than you put it.
I'm tired of the Giants  
SMitch2 : 1/11/2018 7:52 pm : link
Giving away hi-quality, hi-draft picks that they develop only to have to replace them with another high draft pick or big $$$. And then watch those other guys go on to long and highly productive careers.

Linval was the worst, but also:

Hankins ( we'll see)
Barry coffield
Cornelius griffin.
Harrison and Joseph are different types  
idiotsavant : 1/11/2018 7:52 pm : link
Fans associate large, strong DTs, but ..two very different players.

Having both? Yeah.that's a team.
I should have specified DL picks  
SMitch2 : 1/11/2018 7:55 pm : link
And then, of course, not all of our replacements work out (Austin) which leads to more wasted time / picks, when we should be fortifying other areas, instead of trying to tread water...
Hard to comment, what is modern? And how do you compare players in  
plato : 1/11/2018 7:56 pm : link
different schemes, 3/4 or 4/3? Tackle responsibilities very different. Rosy Grier not a bad DT in what I would call my time. Jack Gregory pretty good, then there's Leonard Marshall but he played in a 3/4. Now schemes are more complex and Snacks although he plays in a supposed 4/3 really plays the nose as if we were in a 3/4.

So it's complicated but we've had some great DTs.
What impresses me most about Snacks  
B in ALB : 1/11/2018 7:57 pm : link
Is his motor. You mention him chasing down plays. And he does that really effectively despite his position on the field and proximity to the back carrier while often times getting doubled. Having played the 1 and 3 T plenty, I can tell you that that is really fycking impressive. He doesn't quit, he doesn't freelance, maintains great gap integrity and plays his ass off. He's probably my favorite pro.
Jim Kanicki and Jim Burt were the best Giant DTs  
yalebowl : 1/11/2018 8:56 pm : link
First, Jim Kanicki. We traded Homer Jones, all-time best Giant Wide Receiver for Jim Kanicki. The Browns to sweeten the deal threw in Ron Johnson who I believe was our best running back. Without the trade for Jim Kanicki we don't get Ron Johnson.

Jim Burt played with heart and knocked out Joe Montana and the 49ers in a playoff game for us.
Rosey Grier was damn good (depending upon what you call  
yatqb : 1/11/2018 9:17 pm : link
"the modern era"). In more recent times Snacks is the best.
RE: Rosey Grier was damn good (depending upon what you call  
Greg from LI : 1/11/2018 9:36 pm : link
In comment 13784021 yatqb said:
Quote:
"the modern era"). In more recent times Snacks is the best.


Generally understood as the Super Bowl era
How did he not make the pro bowl?  
BlueHurricane : 1/11/2018 10:00 pm : link
I know the game sucks but still. The fact he isnt a pro bowl starter is insane
great point  
Andrew in Austin : 1/11/2018 10:28 pm : link
I was thinking about this the other day. I love watching Beckham highlights, Collins highlights, now have some w/ Shepard and Engram. But the guy that literally brought it in every single game is Harrison. What a great FA acquisition. No matter how shitty the team was around him, he produced and brought it. Great mentor and example for Dalvin as well.

Personally I agree that he is the best NYG DT of the modern era.
RE: I'm tired of the Giants  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/11/2018 11:31 pm : link
In comment 13783899 SMitch2 said:
Quote:
Giving away hi-quality, hi-draft picks that they develop only to have to replace them with another high draft pick or big $$$. And then watch those other guys go on to long and highly productive careers.

Linval was the worst, but also:

Hankins ( we'll see)
Barry coffield
Cornelius griffin.


Cofield wouldn't fit that description. He played three more years after walking from the giants.
9 sacks, 52 tackles in 51 Redskins game. Nothing to write home about. Griffin was legit. Linval went to Minnesota and became a far better player than he ever was here.


Think about the jets... lol  
whozzat : 1/12/2018 12:28 am : link
Sinking their money into two knuckleheads on the d-line who underperformed and dragged the team down, while Snacks plays as well as any dt in the league the last two years. They could have built around him and Leonard Williams, and saved their money, and maybe traded the two knuckleheads... I know, hindsight... but you'd think they'd have had a little more insight into the personalities involved.

I think so  
Rong5611 : 1/12/2018 8:25 am : link
These are the best I can think of:

Harrison
Hamilton
Howard
Mendenhall was also a standout on some awful teams. Troy Archer was very good as well, talented.
Mendenhall was actually my first "favorite Giant."  
Beezer : 1/12/2018 8:38 am : link

I'd mention Jim Burt in this conversation. Not better than Snacks. But tough as hell.
RE: Mendenhall was actually my first  
NNJ Tom : 1/12/2018 8:41 am : link
In comment 13784279 Beezer said:
Quote:

I'd mention Jim Burt in this conversation. Not better than Snacks. But tough as hell.


Based on Madden mentions alone, Burt should be in HOF.
RE: RE: Snacks is the best DT the Giants have ever had imo  
Victor in CT : 1/12/2018 8:42 am : link
In comment 13783810 Snacks said:
Quote:
In comment 13783793 gidiefor said:


Quote:


he eats offensive lineman -- there's two or more on him on every play, and he still manages to shack them and chase after the QB

I don't get why he's not thought of as a pass rusher -- because he rushes and pressures the passer often

The real shame is that our d-ends have really not taken maximum advantage of him



I remember a play or two where Snacks engaged a double and knocked an OL to the ground with one arm.

I really want to know why we had such a hard time getting a rush from outside with this guy and Tomlinson in the middle.


Because JPP sucks and Vernon is overrated and overpaid.
Snacks is right up there. Hamilton comes to mind for sure.  
Victor in CT : 1/12/2018 8:45 am : link
How do you fairly rate the 3-4 2-gap guys though? Howard and Burt were physically dominating NTs. Marshall could 2-gap (a DT role in the 3-4 vs. the run) but also get to the passer.

Troy Archer is a "what might have been". Mendenhall great but more of a speed guy.
I know it was a different timer, a differfent game,  
Beezer : 1/12/2018 8:52 am : link
but Mendenhall was 6-1, 255. Granted, it's distributed slightly differently lol, but it's amazing that I'm a bit taller and a bit heavier. Crazy that he clogged NFL lines at that weight.
Harrison by far...  
x meadowlander : 1/12/2018 9:05 am : link
...he's the only DT the Giants have EVER had who is often the best player on the field, period. Hall of Fame worthy, I believe.

The Giants haven't had another as good as him - Hamilton, Mendenhall, Howard, etc - all great players, but Harrison is HOF, IMO.
RE: Snacks is awesome but Linval is on another level.  
section125 : 1/12/2018 9:15 am : link
In comment 13783883 NYGmen58 said:
Quote:
If comparing their Giants careers, Snacks has been a better Giant, but hes nowhere near the DT that Joseph is.


Linval Joseph is very good, but Snacks is very much better.
RE: I know it was a different timer, a differfent game,  
Victor in CT : 1/12/2018 9:17 am : link
In comment 13784304 Beezer said:
Quote:
but Mendenhall was 6-1, 255. Granted, it's distributed slightly differently lol, but it's amazing that I'm a bit taller and a bit heavier. Crazy that he clogged NFL lines at that weight.


yep. Alan Page played at 225 later in his career
Without Erik Howard, the Giants don't make it to SB XXV  
Bluenatic : 1/12/2018 9:22 am : link
It was Howard who forced the Roger Craig fumble that LT recovered that led to the game-winning FG in the Championship Game in SF.
RE: Mendenhall was actually my first  
RinR : 1/12/2018 9:32 am : link
In comment 13784279 Beezer said:
Quote:

I'd mention Jim Burt in this conversation. Not better than Snacks. But tough as hell.


Was a big fan Burt when he was with the Giants but he dropped several notches after his hit on Hostetler in the 1990 NFCC game.
pro-bowl and all-pro snubs this year...  
Dan in the Springs : 1/12/2018 10:07 am : link
were a joke. He's definitely the best run-stopper in the league right now (imo) and clearly the Giants best DT since at least Hamilton as well.

What an upgrade too over Kuhn.
on a side note  
bc4life : 1/12/2018 10:12 am : link
I think we are going to be very happy with the youngster playing alongside him. Just need that 3rd rotation guy
RE: RE: RE: Snacks is the best DT the Giants have ever had imo  
Snacks : 1/12/2018 10:26 am : link
In comment 13784284 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 13783810 Snacks said:


Quote:


In comment 13783793 gidiefor said:


Quote:


he eats offensive lineman -- there's two or more on him on every play, and he still manages to shack them and chase after the QB

I don't get why he's not thought of as a pass rusher -- because he rushes and pressures the passer often

The real shame is that our d-ends have really not taken maximum advantage of him



I remember a play or two where Snacks engaged a double and knocked an OL to the ground with one arm.

I really want to know why we had such a hard time getting a rush from outside with this guy and Tomlinson in the middle.



Because JPP sucks and Vernon is overrated and overpaid.


Kind of funny that the GM who signed DH (brilliant) also signed JPP and Vernon (dumb from the looks of things so far).
RE: RE: RE: RE: Snacks is the best DT the Giants have ever had imo  
Victor in CT : 1/12/2018 10:32 am : link
In comment 13784493 Snacks said:
Quote:
In comment 13784284 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


In comment 13783810 Snacks said:


Quote:


In comment 13783793 gidiefor said:


Quote:


he eats offensive lineman -- there's two or more on him on every play, and he still manages to shack them and chase after the QB

I don't get why he's not thought of as a pass rusher -- because he rushes and pressures the passer often

The real shame is that our d-ends have really not taken maximum advantage of him



I remember a play or two where Snacks engaged a double and knocked an OL to the ground with one arm.

I really want to know why we had such a hard time getting a rush from outside with this guy and Tomlinson in the middle.



Because JPP sucks and Vernon is overrated and overpaid.



Kind of funny that the GM who signed DH (brilliant) also signed JPP and Vernon (dumb from the looks of things so far).


It's what happens when you're forced to go FA out of desperation. You pay All-Pro $$ to good but not great players.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Snacks is the best DT the Giants have ever had imo  
Snacks : 1/12/2018 10:48 am : link
In comment 13784506 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 13784493 Snacks said:


Quote:


In comment 13784284 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


In comment 13783810 Snacks said:


Quote:


In comment 13783793 gidiefor said:


Quote:


he eats offensive lineman -- there's two or more on him on every play, and he still manages to shack them and chase after the QB

I don't get why he's not thought of as a pass rusher -- because he rushes and pressures the passer often

The real shame is that our d-ends have really not taken maximum advantage of him



I remember a play or two where Snacks engaged a double and knocked an OL to the ground with one arm.

I really want to know why we had such a hard time getting a rush from outside with this guy and Tomlinson in the middle.



Because JPP sucks and Vernon is overrated and overpaid.



Kind of funny that the GM who signed DH (brilliant) also signed JPP and Vernon (dumb from the looks of things so far).



It's what happens when you're forced to go FA out of desperation. You pay All-Pro $$ to good but not great players.


And why was there desperation? Because of his poor drafts. (Injuries didn't help)
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Snacks is the best DT the Giants have ever had imo  
Victor in CT : 1/12/2018 10:58 am : link
In comment 13784536 Snacks said:
Quote:
In comment 13784506 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


In comment 13784493 Snacks said:


Quote:


In comment 13784284 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


In comment 13783810 Snacks said:


Quote:


In comment 13783793 gidiefor said:


Quote:


he eats offensive lineman -- there's two or more on him on every play, and he still manages to shack them and chase after the QB

I don't get why he's not thought of as a pass rusher -- because he rushes and pressures the passer often

The real shame is that our d-ends have really not taken maximum advantage of him



I remember a play or two where Snacks engaged a double and knocked an OL to the ground with one arm.

I really want to know why we had such a hard time getting a rush from outside with this guy and Tomlinson in the middle.



Because JPP sucks and Vernon is overrated and overpaid.



Kind of funny that the GM who signed DH (brilliant) also signed JPP and Vernon (dumb from the looks of things so far).



It's what happens when you're forced to go FA out of desperation. You pay All-Pro $$ to good but not great players.



And why was there desperation? Because of his poor drafts. (Injuries didn't help)


Yes. Poor drafts are the cause.
RE: Spider  
njm : 1/12/2018 10:58 am : link
In comment 13783639 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Mendenhall is on our all-time BBI list (the one Larry put together). He was a bit before my time however.


Mendenhall was smaller, quicker and a better pass rusher. Nowhere near the run stuffer Snacks is. Come to think of it, they would have been perfect compliments to each other as a starting DT combo.
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