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Raanan: Patricia the clear favorite

jeff57 : 1/12/2018 8:05 am
Quote:
Patricia is the favorite for the job, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the team’s coaching search. The Giants were impressed by his smarts and view him as the ultimate Bill Belichick protégé considering he was close to a blank canvas when he arrived in New England.

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"ultimate Bill Belichick protege"  
Brown Recluse : 1/12/2018 8:09 am : link
Man, they better get this right. Words like this will bite them in the ass forever if he ends up being another McAdoo.
I like  
Jon in NYC : 1/12/2018 8:13 am : link
it. He's the smart, analytical mind. Unlike Wilks, his unit has a history of success over a long period of time despite the personnel. It's definitely a big leap for him though.
Would that mean a move to a 3-4?  
jeff57 : 1/12/2018 8:15 am : link
That would require a massive infusion of LB talent. I guess Vernon and Kennard could play the outside.
.......  
CoughlinHandsonHips : 1/12/2018 8:15 am : link
Multiple sources also saying Detroit is the favorite to land him.

hmm
I don't see anything about the guy  
Beezer : 1/12/2018 8:16 am : link
that reminds me of McAdoo.

I'm not the guy who's going to tell you "see? told ya!" about Mac ... but I was never completely settled with that choice, even after 11-5. There was always something about the guy I didn't love.

I don't get that at ALL about Patricia.
Hopefully the Lions hire Vrabel..  
Sean : 1/12/2018 8:16 am : link
& then we’re set.
RE: I don't see anything about the guy  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 1/12/2018 8:18 am : link
In comment 13784243 Beezer said:
Quote:
that reminds me of McAdoo.

I'm not the guy who's going to tell you "see? told ya!" about Mac ... but I was never completely settled with that choice, even after 11-5. There was always something about the guy I didn't love.

I don't get that at ALL about Patricia.


Bingo. Never warmed up to McAdoo either.
I hope he can command the room  
Andy in Boston : 1/12/2018 8:19 am : link
And handle the media. He seemed mousy to me in some of his pressers with media.
..........  
CoughlinHandsonHips : 1/12/2018 8:21 am : link


Mountain Dew, Cargo shorts, unkept beard, WCW shirt. If we go on looks I'd say Detroit is the favorite to land him hahah
RE: .......  
Tittle 9 20 64 : 1/12/2018 8:21 am : link
In comment 13784242 CoughlinHandsonHips said:
Quote:
Multiple sources also saying Detroit is the favorite to land him.

hmm


From everything I’ve read he and is wife have strong ties to the northeast. That could be the determining factor for him.
I like Patricia..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/12/2018 8:22 am : link
but he has had an up and down career as far as performance goes:

Quote:
I like
Jon in NYC : 8:13 am : link : reply
it. He's the smart, analytical mind. Unlike Wilks, his unit has a history of success over a long period of time despite the personnel. It's definitely a big leap for him though.


The Pats as a team have had a lot of success, but they are still one of the only teams to win a SB with a defense ranked 20th or below and they did it twice.

I don't think that will detract from the ability of Patricia as a leader, as I think he'll be hired for approaching the game the same way Belicheck does, but based solely on his performance, he's second fiddle to the offensive guys who have come out of NE
. . . .  
jeff57 : 1/12/2018 8:24 am : link
I feel like Ben McAdoo changed after that first season.  
Brown Recluse : 1/12/2018 8:25 am : link
He seemed more relatable at first to me.

Then he came in last season with that "power do" on his head and tried to be all stoic - almost as if he either:
1)new expectations would be higher for him after 11-5 and he was trying way too hard, or

2) Thought he earned and deserved a lot more respect after his early success, and it went to his head.

He just came off like a dick though. It was just really weird.



Am Curious  
Sammo85 : 1/12/2018 8:31 am : link
To see whether a Patricia hire would lead to an eventual transition to a 3-4 base. I’m sure Patricia with his knowledge could run and adapt to a 4-3 but his bread and butter is the 3-4.

Also am curious what kind of offense he’d want to have run here.

If he’s the guy, the coordinator picks will be very interesting.
RE: .......  
DonQuixote : 1/12/2018 8:32 am : link
In comment 13784242 CoughlinHandsonHips said:
Quote:
Multiple sources also saying Detroit is the favorite to land him.

hmm


Maybe that means he tops the list in both searches and he will get to choose.
RE: I like Patricia..  
larryflower37 : 1/12/2018 8:40 am : link
In comment 13784252 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
but he has had an up and down career as far as performance goes:



Quote:


I like
Jon in NYC : 8:13 am : link : reply
it. He's the smart, analytical mind. Unlike Wilks, his unit has a history of success over a long period of time despite the personnel. It's definitely a big leap for him though.



The Pats as a team have had a lot of success, but they are still one of the only teams to win a SB with a defense ranked 20th or below and they did it twice.

I don't think that will detract from the ability of Patricia as a leader, as I think he'll be hired for approaching the game the same way Belicheck does, but based solely on his performance, he's second fiddle to the offensive guys who have come out of NE

The 20th rank is based on yards not points per game.
They are lights out in scoring defense
Good  
TommyWiseau : 1/12/2018 8:41 am : link
I like the 3-4 defense a lot. Hopefully we make the change although Gettleman's Panthers ran the 4-3
RE: RE: I like Patricia..  
Blue21 : 1/12/2018 8:44 am : link
In comment 13784281 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
In comment 13784252 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


but he has had an up and down career as far as performance goes:



Quote:


I like
Jon in NYC : 8:13 am : link : reply
it. He's the smart, analytical mind. Unlike Wilks, his unit has a history of success over a long period of time despite the personnel. It's definitely a big leap for him though.



The Pats as a team have had a lot of success, but they are still one of the only teams to win a SB with a defense ranked 20th or below and they did it twice.

I don't think that will detract from the ability of Patricia as a leader, as I think he'll be hired for approaching the game the same way Belicheck does, but based solely on his performance, he's second fiddle to the offensive guys who have come out of NE


The 20th rank is based on yards not points per game.
They are lights out in scoring defense



My concern is once he doesn't have Brady will his numbers be worse.Nothing like a Brady to keep the other teams offense off the field.
RE: I like Patricia..  
YAJ2112 : 1/12/2018 8:44 am : link
In comment 13784252 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
but he has had an up and down career as far as performance goes:



Quote:


I like
Jon in NYC : 8:13 am : link : reply
it. He's the smart, analytical mind. Unlike Wilks, his unit has a history of success over a long period of time despite the personnel. It's definitely a big leap for him though.



The Pats as a team have had a lot of success, but they are still one of the only teams to win a SB with a defense ranked 20th or below and they did it twice.

I don't think that will detract from the ability of Patricia as a leader, as I think he'll be hired for approaching the game the same way Belicheck does, but based solely on his performance, he's second fiddle to the offensive guys who have come out of NE


The only year the Pats won a SB ranked 20th or below in D was 2001.

Year YdsRnk/Pts Rank
2016 8/1
2014 13/8
2004 9/2
2003 7/1
2001 24/6
Bend not break  
Bill2 : 1/12/2018 8:45 am : link
A great philosophy if you want to minimze impact on the score at the least hit to the cap and most flexibility if you have injuries.

Remember Fewell? Could not cope and went into a shell if he lost a starter? Not that.
Dont  
cokeduplt : 1/12/2018 8:45 am : link
The patriots run both the 4-3 and 3-4? I doubt a switch is coming anytime soon since we mostly have practice squad lbs.
A change to a 3-4 would require time, like a 2-3 year transition  
The_Boss : 1/12/2018 8:46 am : link
And a total change in philosophy. LB’s become the focus of the D.
I was hoping all along if no Wilks then Patricia  
Chris684 : 1/12/2018 8:47 am : link
so I'm ok with this.

Wouldnt it be interesting...

HOF NYG head coach Bill Parcells grooms young coordinator Bill Belichick in his mold before BB eventually moves on to his own HOF head coaching career in New England, where he then grooms young coordinator Patricia before he moves on to a similar career in NYG? Comes full circle.
I don't know enough about any of these guys to say  
Ira : 1/12/2018 8:48 am : link
who would be the best coach. It's up to the Giants brain trust. They blew it with McAdoo, but they had a big winner with TC. I'm glad Gettleman is back with that group helping to decide.
RE: .......  
Big Rick in FL : 1/12/2018 8:48 am : link
In comment 13784242 CoughlinHandsonHips said:
Quote:
Multiple sources also saying Detroit is the favorite to land him.

hmm


What sources? I haven't seen anything since probably Wednesday that they are the favorite to land him. Those rumors were from PFT over the weekend.
RE:  
BigBlue4You09 : 1/12/2018 8:49 am : link
In comment 13784236 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
Man, they better get this right. Words like this will bite them in the ass forever if he ends up being another McAdoo.


One writers speculation and words will hardly have any impact on the outcome of his time here. Nor if it didn't work out.
Also if true  
Chris684 : 1/12/2018 8:49 am : link
judging by the looks of our GM and HC, get ready for an infusion of some big boys up front on both sides of the ball and a return to quality LB play.

Not sure his bread and butter  
pjcas18 : 1/12/2018 8:50 am : link
is a 3-4, he was an OL when he played, coached the OL and then moved to D.

the Patriots run their base D less than 25% of the time, and are in sub-packages the bulk of it.

plus they were even a 4-3 for a few years during Patricia's tenure.

I'd say his bread and butter would be coming up with sub-packages to counter the offenses formations.

one thing I'd love to see is investment on the defensive side of the ball relative to their ranking. they regularly let players on D go instead of paying them like Chandler Jones, Richard Seymour, Jamie Collins, Logan Ryan, even guys like Vince Wilfork, the only guy I remember them paying is McCourty other than Dont'a Hightower and he's on IR.

RE: I like Patricia..  
Boatie Warrant : 1/12/2018 8:52 am : link
In comment 13784252 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
but he has had an up and down career as far as performance goes:



Quote:


I like
Jon in NYC : 8:13 am : link : reply
it. He's the smart, analytical mind. Unlike Wilks, his unit has a history of success over a long period of time despite the personnel. It's definitely a big leap for him though.



The Pats as a team have had a lot of success, but they are still one of the only teams to win a SB with a defense ranked 20th or below and they did it twice.

I don't think that will detract from the ability of Patricia as a leader, as I think he'll be hired for approaching the game the same way Belicheck does, but based solely on his performance, he's second fiddle to the offensive guys who have come out of NE


Points allowed is a more important stat IMO. Patricia's defenses where ranked #11 in 2012, #10 in 2013, #7 in 2014, #8 in 2015, #1 in 2016 and #5 this year. That is pretty impressive.

1/4th of the Superbowl winning teams had the #1 defense for points allowed.

Out of these three, Patricia is the one that makes me want to like him as a candidate. Not sure if it is the fact that it is unknown what he can be as a head coach, or the known of the other two's performance when they had there shot. I do think it is time we had a more defensive influence here. The last 5 head coaches have been offensive minded guys.
If Coughlin ever saw Patricia’s desk,  
Tittle 9 20 64 : 1/12/2018 8:52 am : link
He’d probably drop dead with a heart attack!
RE: Not sure his bread and butter  
Sammo85 : 1/12/2018 8:57 am : link
In comment 13784302 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
is a 3-4, he was an OL when he played, coached the OL and then moved to D.

the Patriots run their base D less than 25% of the time, and are in sub-packages the bulk of it.

plus they were even a 4-3 for a few years during Patricia's tenure.

I'd say his bread and butter would be coming up with sub-packages to counter the offenses formations.

one thing I'd love to see is investment on the defensive side of the ball relative to their ranking. they regularly let players on D go instead of paying them like Chandler Jones, Richard Seymour, Jamie Collins, Logan Ryan, even guys like Vince Wilfork, the only guy I remember them paying is McCourty other than Dont'a Hightower and he's on IR.


Where did you obtain that stat on the base/sub packages? That 25 percent figure doesn’t pass the smell test to me from watching the Pats a ton.
stats are for losers as they say....  
BillKo : 1/12/2018 8:59 am : link
...it's how you perform at crunch time, and make those 7-8 players per game that usually decide an NFL game.

He's from a winning program, one that demands being a professional.

That's good enough for me.

Now go draft some football players!!!!!!
This just in  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 1/12/2018 8:59 am : link
Josh in the City is creaming his pants right now!
RE: I don't see anything about the guy  
UConn4523 : 1/12/2018 8:59 am : link
In comment 13784243 Beezer said:
Quote:
that reminds me of McAdoo.

I'm not the guy who's going to tell you "see? told ya!" about Mac ... but I was never completely settled with that choice, even after 11-5. There was always something about the guy I didn't love.

I don't get that at ALL about Patricia.


I don't get the comparisons either...its lazy. Their resumes couldn't be any more different, as well as their coaching lineage.
Patricia  
Pete44 : 1/12/2018 9:00 am : link
New England's defensive talent was never upper echelon, but they always do a good job of taking out the other teams best weapon. Also, they adjust on the fly and the defense usually gets better as the season progresses, such as this season.

Of all the candidates no issue with Patricia for the simple fact, he will bring some New England culture to the Giants, which will be fresh.

I would have preferred McDaniels, just because I believe he is a great offensive coach and will learn from his mistakes. I go back to the fact that all 3 QBs from last season for NE were starting this year. He deserves some credit for that.
Patricia  
jbeintherockies : 1/12/2018 9:00 am : link
He will fail miserably in his first head coaching gig. He is a down in the weeds guy; an X's and O's guy.
So what pieces do  
section125 : 1/12/2018 9:01 am : link
the Giants have for a 3-4 defense. I'll try, you correct,

NT - Snacks/Tomlinson
DE - JPP/Bromley (If OV to small for DE move Bromley)
DE - Vernon/Wynn (OV may be too small and move to OLB)

LOLB - Okwara (was a LB at ND)/???
ROLB - Vernon(?) / Williams
RILB - Goodsen / Draft Pick
LILB - Kennard / Draft Pick

CB - Jenkins/ DRC
CB - Cockrell/Apple

SS- Collins/Adams
FS - Thompson/Draft Pick

I think Okwara would be perfect as OLB - played some LB at ND and he looked good dropping into zone coverage a couple times and he has a decent pass rush.

Flame away....
I'll have to look it up  
pjcas18 : 1/12/2018 9:05 am : link
but their base D right now isn't even a 3-4, their base D is what most people call a sub-package.

They run a 4-2-5 base D.

I think if Hightower wasn't hurt, it may even be a more traditional 4-3.

but point is while Belichick may prefer a 3-4 if all things were equal, he rarely sits in base D and is not at all married to the scheme, and he's probably been a 4-3 as much as he's been a 3-4 in New England.

And the majority of the time is in a sub package.

And to that point Matt Patricia I wouldn't say a 3-4 is his bread and butter since I think he's pretty much able to improvise and adapt to his personnel and game situation.
I'm OK with this guy  
mrvax : 1/12/2018 9:06 am : link
provided he never refers to the football as "The Duke".
i'm also curious what the Pats D ranks  
UConn4523 : 1/12/2018 9:07 am : link
after the first month of the season when they were getting steamrolled. They played much better their next 11/12 games and you have to applaud the adjustments made.
RE:  
Carson53 : 1/12/2018 9:08 am : link
In comment 13784236 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
Man, they better get this right. Words like this will bite them in the ass forever if he ends up being another McAdoo.
.

That doesn't even make any sense ('ultimate protege'), sounds good in print.
It gives the reporter something to write, I guess.
I am not surprised who was eliminated from the list, that
part was predictable....Spags, Studesville, and Wilks
(because of his inexperience).
RE: I'll have to look it up  
Sammo85 : 1/12/2018 9:10 am : link
In comment 13784331 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
but their base D right now isn't even a 3-4, their base D is what most people call a sub-package.

They run a 4-2-5 base D.

I think if Hightower wasn't hurt, it may even be a more traditional 4-3.

but point is while Belichick may prefer a 3-4 if all things were equal, he rarely sits in base D and is not at all married to the scheme, and he's probably been a 4-3 as much as he's been a 3-4 in New England.

And the majority of the time is in a sub package.

And to that point Matt Patricia I wouldn't say a 3-4 is his bread and butter since I think he's pretty much able to improvise and adapt to his personnel and game situation.


That is true, the one thing he and Belichick do however is require their personnel to be versatile, especially at LB and S/CB.

That could mean significant personnel changes on D the next couple seasons. We would definitely need an upgrade at FS and better depth at CB. I could see Patricia use Collins in various looks lining up as a LB and in blitz packages. I think a couple MLB types become a priority as well.

One thing that wouldn’t be in doubt is the necessity of bringing in really good LBs. It does not matter what type of defense or package, Belichick and Patricia both require lots of LBs, and ones who are scheme diverse.
RE: i'm also curious what the Pats D ranks  
Carson53 : 1/12/2018 9:10 am : link
In comment 13784338 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
after the first month of the season when they were getting steamrolled. They played much better their next 11/12 games and you have to applaud the adjustments made.
.

In the first month, the secondary was having some serious
communication issues, specifically Gilmore as the newcomer.
they let up 128 points weeks 1-4 (32 ppg)  
UConn4523 : 1/12/2018 9:11 am : link
weeks 5-17 they let up 168 points (14 ppg).

That is glaring, didn't realize how huge of a difference it really was.
RE: ..........  
GiantTuff1 : 1/12/2018 9:14 am : link
In comment 13784249 CoughlinHandsonHips said:
Quote:


Mountain Dew, Cargo shorts, unkept beard, WCW shirt. If we go on looks I'd say Detroit is the favorite to land him hahah


It's a little concerning if he drinks that much soda lol, but get it done Giants, this would be great news. I think Matt Patricia would be a home run hire for this team.

Also, I have a few close Pats friends who have that shirt. It's actually not a WCW/nWo shirt, if you look closely it's actually Kraft, Belichick, Brady, Edelman, Gronk as the nWo with their heads superimposed over Hogan, Bischoff, Hall, Nash, etc. Someone made that shirt since the Pats are the ultimate heels of the NFL, and it became very popular amongst the fan base. The fans and team embrace the cool bad guy role, which I think is hilarious and awesome.

Can't wait after years of sustained winning for our gWo shirts.
RE: I'm OK with this guy  
jvm52106 : 1/12/2018 9:16 am : link
In comment 13784335 mrvax said:
Quote:
provided he never refers to the football as "The Duke".


Plus 1... I will add Heavy Handed and winning practice as well.
RE: RE: I like Patricia..  
DonQuixote : 1/12/2018 9:20 am : link
In comment 13784305 Boatie Warrant said:
Quote:
In comment 13784252 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


but he has had an up and down career as far as performance goes:



Quote:


I like
Jon in NYC : 8:13 am : link : reply
it. He's the smart, analytical mind. Unlike Wilks, his unit has a history of success over a long period of time despite the personnel. It's definitely a big leap for him though.



The Pats as a team have had a lot of success, but they are still one of the only teams to win a SB with a defense ranked 20th or below and they did it twice.

I don't think that will detract from the ability of Patricia as a leader, as I think he'll be hired for approaching the game the same way Belicheck does, but based solely on his performance, he's second fiddle to the offensive guys who have come out of NE



Points allowed is a more important stat IMO. Patricia's defenses where ranked #11 in 2012, #10 in 2013, #7 in 2014, #8 in 2015, #1 in 2016 and #5 this year. That is pretty impressive.

1/4th of the Superbowl winning teams had the #1 defense for points allowed.

Out of these three, Patricia is the one that makes me want to like him as a candidate. Not sure if it is the fact that it is unknown what he can be as a head coach, or the known of the other two's performance when they had there shot. I do think it is time we had a more defensive influence here. The last 5 head coaches have been offensive minded guys.


+1
I could not agree with something any more than this statement  
pjcas18 : 1/12/2018 9:21 am : link
Quote:
One thing that wouldn’t be in doubt is the necessity of bringing in really good LBs. It does not matter what type of defense or package, Belichick and Patricia both require lots of LBs, and ones who are scheme diverse.


I wonder if Matt Patricia is hired if he and Gettleman get on the same page about LB's.

Patriots always have good and versatile LB's. From Phifer, McGinest, Ted Johnson, Mayo, Bruschi, Colvin (who was somewhat of a bust due to injury), Adalius Thomas (see Colvin), Vrabel, Nincovich, Spikes, Hightower, Collins, Van Noy, etc. even an old Seau played there and was decent.

I don't know if the Giants have had one LB as good as any of them in 20 years.

RE: Bend not break  
Go Terps : 1/12/2018 9:21 am : link
In comment 13784288 Bill2 said:
Quote:
A great philosophy if you want to minimze impact on the score at the least hit to the cap and most flexibility if you have injuries.

Remember Fewell? Could not cope and went into a shell if he lost a starter? Not that.


Yes. A thousand times yes.
I think  
ryanmkeane : 1/12/2018 9:23 am : link
folks are looking too much at the stats to pigeon hole Patricia.

He's been the defensive coordinator under Belichick for 6 seasons and has led some really good defenses in that timeframe. He has worked with Belichick and the Pats organization since 2006 and ultimately, will be charged with changing the culture around here. He most likely (from all accounts) has some really fresh and new ideas surrounding analytics. Most importantly, he can relate to players, as discussed by people in that locker room. He's 43. As Jon discussed, we need a growth hire that can stay with this team for 10+ years if everything works out.

He would be a great choice. Let's not breakdown every season and every game that he coached.
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