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[Off-topic]Why did George Young not get along with Belichick

OdellBeckhamJr : 1/12/2018 12:38 pm
I've seen it mentioned before and I just heard Francesa say George Young hated Bill Belichick on Bill Simmons' podcast, but I don't know the details, why didn't he like Lil' Bill?
This is the first  
Beer Man : 1/12/2018 12:44 pm : link
I've ever heard of it.
With Young being dead  
pjcas18 : 1/12/2018 12:56 pm : link
I'm not sure anyone will truly know, but this article does a decent job laying out how Parcells to Handley unfolded.

Quote:
...Young, who died in 2001 after retiring following the 1997 season, clearly was not a big fan of Belichick. He was not thrilled with Belichick's communication skills and didn't think he was the right fit. It's interesting that Young's protťgť, Ernie Accorsi, who was then the Browns' GM, recommended to Art Modell that he hire Belichick. Handley was such a disaster the players staged a mutiny and Young had no choice but to fire him after two seasons....

Link - ( New Window )
George and Big Bill  
UESBLUE : 1/12/2018 1:00 pm : link
were not the best if buddies either. I saw it with my own two eyes at lunch at Camp at FDU
It had to have been a woman.  
Boy Cord : 1/12/2018 1:01 pm : link
Broes before hoes.
I seriously doubt that Young hated Belichick...  
Milton : 1/12/2018 1:02 pm : link
...or that they didn't get along. Young thought Belichick was a great coordinator, but lacked the leadership qualities to be a head coach.
GY didn't think he'd be a good HC.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/12/2018 1:02 pm : link
Also, Parcells screwed us by resigning in May '91, pretty much limiting our options. BB was long gone by then obviously.
That same article I linked  
pjcas18 : 1/12/2018 1:03 pm : link
does mention Parcells never got over that Young almost fired him to replace him with Howard Shnellenberger after his first season.

I don't think that impacted the fact Young had pegged Handley as Parcells successor.

Interesting in the article is the timeline, while it might have always been a formality that it would he Handley replacing Parcells, Coughlin was already at BC and Belichick at CLE BEFORE Parcells even resigned.
Because Young, Belichick,  
David B. : 1/12/2018 1:10 pm : link
as well as Parcells -- were all pricks.

That said, I never heard they didn't get along.
wasn't personal animosity. he just didn't think he had the personality  
Victor in CT : 1/12/2018 1:15 pm : link
or temperament to be a HC.
George Young was the savior of the franchise  
Greg from LI : 1/12/2018 1:18 pm : link
But he could be a stubborn SOB. Once he made up his mind about something, he wasn't going to change it, and he made the decision that Belichick just wasn't head coach material.
if you believe Parcells, in his book he said that he asked GY  
Victor in CT : 1/12/2018 1:23 pm : link
many times if he wanted him to ask guys like Coughlin, Belichick, Erhardt, Groh to stick around, that the head job could be open and Young said no. Parcells felt that Young had his mind set on Handley from the outset, which ties into what Greg said about his stubborn streak.
fine he had concerns about  
bluepepper : 1/12/2018 1:27 pm : link
Belichick. But Handley? How could someone look at a brilliant young coordinator like Belichick and decide he wasn't HC material and then turn to a run of the mill RB coach like Handley and decide he was the answer?

Love George Young but man, he really did pull some whoppers.
Francesa  
JohnG in Albany : 1/12/2018 1:29 pm : link
I remember Francesa saying years ago that as long as George Young was GM, Belichick was never going to be the head coach of the Giants.

He declined to go into details.

I would assume he heard something from Parcells.
George Young did make his mistakes  
nochance : 1/12/2018 1:34 pm : link
How about picking Garry Zimmerman(who didn't want to play in NY)over Reggie White in the USFL dispersal draft. With LT and White on the same side of the defense the Giants might have won 5 super bowls.
It had nothing to do with Parcells  
arniefez : 1/12/2018 1:36 pm : link
and Parcells didn't screw the Giants. George Young didn't think Belichick could handle the head coach job because of poor relationship and communication skills. Belichick had a very rough time with both of those things in Cleveland even though hos time in Cleveland was nowhere near the failure it's made out to be.

George Young was a great man and great GM until 1990. After 1990 he was a great man.

George Young knew months in advance before any of Parcells assistants left that Parcells was leaving. The #1 factor in Parcells leaving was the ownership change. Parcells stayed through he draft and ownership change as a favor to Tim Mara jr who was his closest ally with the Giants.
RE: GY didn't think he'd be a good HC.  
Vanzetti : 1/12/2018 1:44 pm : link
In comment 13784750 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Also, Parcells screwed us by resigning in May '91, pretty much limiting our options. BB was long gone by then obviously.


Thatís what I have always heard. He thought B.B. was an oddball who would not be able to command the roomó to use DGís language.

But B.B. is the unicorn or white tigeróthe guy who defies all the normal rules.

Not sure if I remember this correctly...  
BillKo : 1/12/2018 1:58 pm : link
but wasn't there also something else going on with BB and who he was seeing/dating outside his marriage who was a secretary with the Jints?

GY didn't like that too much from what I recall.

Could be totally wrong....
George Young  
RetroJint : 1/12/2018 2:00 pm : link
had nothing against him personally. He simply felt that Belichick was not head-coaching timber. As for the Parcells screwed us above, letís douse that comment with some ice water. I knew a guy (we attended the 86 Super Bowl together), who sold bonds to GY. Like the good socialist that he was, Young preferred that investment vehicle. He told me Parcells made it clear to everyone that he might be leaving . Belichick had a meeting with Young because he knew that Parcells would be gone , perhaps sooner than later . He wanted to know that should that transpire would he be considered for the HC job?

ďAlthough I appreciate the good work youíve done for us, I donít think you are a head coach.Ē Thatís it. No acrimony . No wife swapping , whatever bullshit you might have heard. Young always said he had his next coach in mind should an opening occur. That was Ray Handley.

You still get guys like Dave Klein, who are big ďYoungĒ backers who say that itís all bullshit and that Parcells screwed everyone in the ass one fine Spring day in May. May 21, actually. Why do I remember ? It was my anniversary with my then wife and I remember being sick at dinner thinking about what was going to go down .

There is no villian in any of this. Parcells hated Young because of what GY did to him in that tragic season of 83. Then , when confronted about the Schellenberger initiative , George lied. I think he took the bad feelings to his grave because when Parcells tried to get back into the organization , Young used his absolute power to kill the idea. No villains. Just humans showing their faults .
George Young turned Giants around  
joeinpa : 1/12/2018 3:10 pm : link
His stubbornness prevented a return of Parcells, the promotion of Belichick
To Head Coach, and an inability to deal with the advent of Free Agency.
Between Young, Parcells, and BB  
steve in ky : 1/12/2018 3:18 pm : link
there were some strong willed personalities in the building. It's not shocking there might be friction at times.
RE: George Young did make his mistakes  
RobCarpenter : 1/12/2018 3:24 pm : link
In comment 13784812 nochance said:
Quote:
How about picking Garry Zimmerman(who didn't want to play in NY)over Reggie White in the USFL dispersal draft. With LT and White on the same side of the defense the Giants might have won 5 super bowls.


To be fair to Young, he got two second round picks for Zimmerman.

The biggest mistake he made was Dave Brown.
Great thread  
Optimus-NY : 1/12/2018 3:25 pm : link
Did anyone see the 30 for 30 ESPN special "The 2 Bills" yet? Is it still yet to be aired? If so, when?
RE: George Young  
Victor in CT : 1/12/2018 3:27 pm : link
In comment 13784851 RetroJint said:
Quote:
had nothing against him personally. He simply felt that Belichick was not head-coaching timber. As for the Parcells screwed us above, letís douse that comment with some ice water. I knew a guy (we attended the 86 Super Bowl together), who sold bonds to GY. Like the good socialist that he was, Young preferred that investment vehicle. He told me Parcells made it clear to everyone that he might be leaving . Belichick had a meeting with Young because he knew that Parcells would be gone , perhaps sooner than later . He wanted to know that should that transpire would he be considered for the HC job?

ďAlthough I appreciate the good work youíve done for us, I donít think you are a head coach.Ē Thatís it. No acrimony . No wife swapping , whatever bullshit you might have heard. Young always said he had his next coach in mind should an opening occur. That was Ray Handley.

You still get guys like Dave Klein, who are big ďYoungĒ backers who say that itís all bullshit and that Parcells screwed everyone in the ass one fine Spring day in May. May 21, actually. Why do I remember ? It was my anniversary with my then wife and I remember being sick at dinner thinking about what was going to go down .

There is no villian in any of this. Parcells hated Young because of what GY did to him in that tragic season of 83. Then , when confronted about the Schellenberger initiative , George lied. I think he took the bad feelings to his grave because when Parcells tried to get back into the organization , Young used his absolute power to kill the idea. No villains. Just humans showing their faults .


good post. ties into what BP said in his book.
RE: RE: George Young did make his mistakes  
Victor in CT : 1/12/2018 3:28 pm : link
In comment 13784996 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
In comment 13784812 nochance said:


Quote:


How about picking Garry Zimmerman(who didn't want to play in NY)over Reggie White in the USFL dispersal draft. With LT and White on the same side of the defense the Giants might have won 5 super bowls.



To be fair to Young, he got two second round picks for Zimmerman.

The biggest mistake he made was Dave Brown.


With Derek Brown a close second
RE: RE: RE: George Young did make his mistakes  
RobCarpenter : 1/12/2018 3:33 pm : link
In comment 13785005 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 13784996 RobCarpenter said:


Quote:


In comment 13784812 nochance said:


Quote:


How about picking Garry Zimmerman(who didn't want to play in NY)over Reggie White in the USFL dispersal draft. With LT and White on the same side of the defense the Giants might have won 5 super bowls.



To be fair to Young, he got two second round picks for Zimmerman.

The biggest mistake he made was Dave Brown.

With Derek Brown a close second


1991 to 1996 first round picks:

1991 Jarrod Bunch
1992 Derek Brown
1993 no pick (supplemental draft in 1992 to get Dave Brown)
1994 Thomas Lewis
1995 Tyrone Wheatley
1996 Cedric Jones

Best pick was Strahan - second round 1993.
No  
PaulN : 1/12/2018 3:37 pm : link
Belechick was not going with Giant office personnel! LOL! You have the wrong regime. Not going ant further than that. As was previously mentioned, George Young did not want Belechick as our next head coach, he did not think he could relate to the players well enough, plus I am certain of the fact that Parcells wanted Bill to take over and that alone would have made Young say otherwise. There was a very heated power struggle between Parcells and Young. In fact George Young tried to fuck Mark Bavaro after the 1990 season when mark ruined his career and played injured to help get the Giants the 1990 ring. Wellington had to step in and fix that. Thanks to Mike Francessa for airing that publicly on WFAN and making Young look like a the biggest creep in the world that led to Mara stepping in, they could be very cheap at times and the wrong times, George Young was a huge cheapskate. He wouldn't even think about free agents when it first started and even said on WFAN, what is wrong with the owners making more money. So all those that want to blame Parcells for screwing us are dead fucking wrong.
RE: RE: George Young did make his mistakes  
jnoble : 1/12/2018 3:48 pm : link
In comment 13784996 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
In comment 13784812 nochance said:


Quote:


How about picking Garry Zimmerman(who didn't want to play in NY)over Reggie White in the USFL dispersal draft. With LT and White on the same side of the defense the Giants might have won 5 super bowls.



To be fair to Young, he got two second round picks for Zimmerman.

The biggest mistake he made was Dave Brown.


oddly enough I read not long ago that Belichick with the Browns was alledgedly interested in drafting Dave Brown if the Giants didn't
RE: GY didn't think he'd be a good HC.  
TMS : 1/12/2018 4:23 pm : link
In comment 13784750 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Also, Parcells screwed us by resigning in May '91, pretty much limiting our options. BB was long gone by then obviously.
Think you hit the nail on the head. Parcels wanted more power in player selection and Young was not giving up that prerogative. Parcels knew Belichek had talent but little personality and it all exploded. Parcels left and Belicheck was passed over. Lots of very strong personalities at play in that threesome. We had quite a group of FB management talent in those days but they competed with each other.
Young liked TC to follow Parcells  
Phil in LA : 1/12/2018 4:27 pm : link
I think he objected to Little Billís choice of girlfriends.
RE: George Young did make his mistakes  
bluepepper : 1/12/2018 4:34 pm : link
In comment 13784812 nochance said:
Quote:
How about picking Garry Zimmerman(who didn't want to play in NY)over Reggie White in the USFL dispersal draft. With LT and White on the same side of the defense the Giants might have won 5 super bowls.

I can't kill GY too much for this since Zimmerman was a Hall of Famer. It's the Rockets taking Olajuwon not the Blazers taking Sam Bowie. And it wasn't unreasonable to think Zimmerman would come aboard once he realized he could live a very non-NYC lifestyle in parts of NJ.

All that said, GY would have been in the HOF long ago if he had taken White.
So George Young's plan  
whozzat : 1/12/2018 4:40 pm : link
was to knowingly let the head coach and star coordinator of a superbowl team walk, so he could promote the running backs coach... you know, just out of personal preference.

That's what we're going with, huh? okee dokee...

I think Tuna  
Phil in LA : 1/12/2018 4:46 pm : link
Was always mad that Young offered his job to Schnellenberger.
RE: No  
BillKo : 1/12/2018 4:52 pm : link
In comment 13785030 PaulN said:
Quote:
Belechick was not going with Giant office personnel! LOL! You have the wrong regime.


What are you talking about? It documented he was "involved" with a secretary from the Giants, Sharon Shenocca.
it is actually somewhat remarkable  
mfsd : 1/12/2018 4:53 pm : link
that Handley not only never again worked in the NFL or anywhere in the game of football after being fired in 92, but as far as I know has never once spoken publicly since the day he was fired.
Itís amazing after all these years so many of you still  
arniefez : 1/12/2018 5:05 pm : link
Canít handle the truth. George Young chose Handley over all of the assistants. He knew Parcells was leaving all the coaches knew Parcells was leaving BEFORE any of them took other jobs.

End of story.

George Young HATED Parcells. He did not dislike Belichick he just thought he couldnít handle the job of leading the entire team and being the face of the franchise. Coughlin was a short timer with the Giants. If you know anything about Geirge Young it makes perfect sense he chose someone he thought he knew very well that he thought was really smart and would work within the org chart. It was one of the many historically bad choices GY made in the 1990s. The biggest one.
Bill Parcells  
NikkiMac : 1/12/2018 5:13 pm : link
Never got hired again because Wellington Mara said one thing he learned from his father was ďNEVER LET THE SAME MAN QIIT ON YOU TWICE
ď and he stuck by it .....Iím sure there is a way to find out but I distinctly remember that quote from him ......
I remember being pissed off about it  
Shirk130 : 1/12/2018 5:25 pm : link
at the time, and listening to Mike and the Mad Dog and the Dog, who I believe was close to Young said George was never going to hire Belichick, and just didn't think he was head coach material. It was ridiculous before he has all that success, Giant fans knew he was responsible (after LT) for our great D.
RE: Itís amazing after all these years so many of you still  
RobCarpenter : 1/12/2018 5:26 pm : link
In comment 13785173 arniefez said:
Quote:
Canít handle the truth. George Young chose Handley over all of the assistants. He knew Parcells was leaving all the coaches knew Parcells was leaving BEFORE any of them took other jobs.

End of story.

George Young HATED Parcells. He did not dislike Belichick he just thought he couldnít handle the job of leading the entire team and being the face of the franchise. Coughlin was a short timer with the Giants. If you know anything about Geirge Young it makes perfect sense he chose someone he thought he knew very well that he thought was really smart and would work within the org chart. It was one of the many historically bad choices GY made in the 1990s. The biggest one.


Except for one or two posts, I don't see anyone on this thread arguing otherwise that Young wanted Handley over Little Bill.

And as I mentioned above Dave Brown was by far GY's worst decision in the 90s.
Holy crap  
arniefez : 1/12/2018 5:26 pm : link
Where do you people get this garbage from? Does it somehow make you feel better.

Wellington BEGGED George Young to rehire Parcells in 1997. Literally begged him. But Young threatened to quit and Tisch said no because Young was going to quit. Wellington finally got Tisch to agree but Young supposedly had already offered the job to Fassel after Satan backed out over money and Wellington didnít think it was right to rescind the offer.

How do you people not know this?
RE: RE: Itís amazing after all these years so many of you still  
RobCarpenter : 1/12/2018 5:27 pm : link
In comment 13785194 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
In comment 13785173 arniefez said:


Quote:


Canít handle the truth. George Young chose Handley over all of the assistants. He knew Parcells was leaving all the coaches knew Parcells was leaving BEFORE any of them took other jobs.

End of story.

George Young HATED Parcells. He did not dislike Belichick he just thought he couldnít handle the job of leading the entire team and being the face of the franchise. Coughlin was a short timer with the Giants. If you know anything about Geirge Young it makes perfect sense he chose someone he thought he knew very well that he thought was really smart and would work within the org chart. It was one of the many historically bad choices GY made in the 1990s. The biggest one.



Except for one or two posts, I don't see anyone on this thread arguing otherwise that Young wanted Handley over Little Bill.

And as I mentioned above Dave Brown was by far GY's worst decision in the 90s.


Meant to say that no one disputes Young wanted Handley.
RE: Holy crap  
Matt in SGS : 1/12/2018 5:34 pm : link
In comment 13785195 arniefez said:
Quote:
Where do you people get this garbage from? Does it somehow make you feel better.

Wellington BEGGED George Young to rehire Parcells in 1997. Literally begged him. But Young threatened to quit and Tisch said no because Young was going to quit. Wellington finally got Tisch to agree but Young supposedly had already offered the job to Fassel after Satan backed out over money and Wellington didnít think it was right to rescind the offer.

How do you people not know this?


Arnie, here is the story about it

from John Mara

Quote:
ďI was right in the middle of it, to tell you the truth,Ē Mara said. ďWe had some disagreement at the time about whether Bill should be brought back. And my father was very anxious to have him back. [Former general manager] George Young was not anxious to have him back. So [late co-owner] Bob Tisch was kind of right in the middle of it, and I was kind of right in the middle of it. Bob kind of changed his mind at the last second and said, ĎOK, if you want to bring him back.í In the meantime, George had already walked down the hall. Actually, I think it was the first time in his life that he ever ran. He ran down the hallway, and by the time I got a call from Bob Tisch saying, ĎListen, if you want Bill Parcells back, Iím not going to block it,í I ran down the hallway to get George, and he had already made the call and offered the job to Fassel. And we didnít think it was right to withdraw the offer at that point in time. So thatís what ended up happening.

http://www.giants.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Giants-were-seconds-away-from-bringing-Bill-Parcells-back-in-1997/2d065123-d764-49fd-a50b-8a6dc345e010 - ( New Window )
You people are pathetic  
arniefez : 1/12/2018 5:38 pm : link
Quote:
Giants GM George Young designated Ray Handley - Ray Handley - instead of Belichick as the eventual successor to Bill Parcells long before Belichick left for Cleveland.


Just give it up already. Young didnít want Coughlin, he didnít want Belichick. He knew a couple weeks after Super Bowl 25 Parcells was leaving. Tim Mara jr asked Parcells to stay through the sale and the draft.
Giants blundered with Ray Handley hire, launched Bill Belichick's career - ( New Window )
RE: You people are pathetic  
whozzat : 1/12/2018 6:32 pm : link
In comment 13785208 arniefez said:


You're doing a pretty good job yourself!

RE: George Young was the savior of the franchise  
Stu11 : 1/12/2018 8:08 pm : link
In comment 13784782 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
But he could be a stubborn SOB. Once he made up his mind about something, he wasn't going to change it, and he made the decision that Belichick just wasn't head coach material.

His spots with Mike and the Mad Dog were solid gold. he's get into that dead pan voice and always end up saying: "Dey say its not about the money....Its alwaaaays about the money"!
Arnie is on the money with how this all went down  
Jimmy Googs : 1/12/2018 8:45 pm : link
as soon as Norwood went "wide right", Parcells was ready to walk out the door as coach.

Getting thru the playoffs with Hoss, and then beating that extremely talented Buffalo team...couldn't ask for a better exit.

He also knew his vaunted defense, including LT, were on the downward side of their careers.

George Young in the 1990s turned into a disaster...


RE: RE: George Young did make his mistakes  
81_Great_Dane : 1/12/2018 11:00 pm : link
In comment 13784996 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
In comment 13784812 nochance said:


Quote:


How about picking Garry Zimmerman(who didn't want to play in NY)over Reggie White in the USFL dispersal draft. With LT and White on the same side of the defense the Giants might have won 5 super bowls.



To be fair to Young, he got two second round picks for Zimmerman.

The biggest mistake he made was Dave Brown.
I remember that fairly well. If I recall correctly, Young drafted Zimmerman knowing he wasn't going to play in New York. Zimmerman was a guy who liked to hunt and fish and didn't want to be on the East Coast. He drafted Zimmerman to trade him, and he got a nice return on the pick. It wasn't some botch where Young didn't know what he was doing.
Young actually fck'ed that up a bit. He should have listened  
Jimmy Googs : 1/12/2018 11:13 pm : link
to Parcells who begged him to take Reggie White. But he was too stubborn and wanted to make Zimmerman his guy.

When he made the deal to trade Zimmerman (and Haynes I think?) he got a boatload of early picks in 1986 Draft and proceeded to pick decent guys who contributed but he picked them way too early in the draft (Dorsey, Collins, Johnson and Lasker to name a few).

just sayin...he could have done better.
whozzat  
arniefez : 1/12/2018 11:19 pm : link
facts and the truth are your friend.
Young screwed it up a lot  
arniefez : 1/12/2018 11:30 pm : link
He didn't take Zimmerman to trade him. He took Zimmerman because the Giants had OL issues and a strong defense sound familiar? He also took Zimmerman because he was militantly anti player freedom of choice. See how he handled the 87 strike or plan B free agency for reference. So when Zimmerman said I'll never play in NY Young took it as challenge. Keep in mind that Zimmerman was just as great as Reggie White. A HOF OL. You could argue at the time the Giants needed him more than White. But Parcells thought if he had LT and White no one would be able to beat him and he was probably right. Parcells and Young really hated each other it's not exaggerated. There are reasons George Young isn't in the HOF even though every Giant fan from the 70's including this one thinks it's a crime.
RE: RE: RE: RE: George Young did make his mistakes  
Jay in Toronto : 1/13/2018 6:19 am : link
In comment 13785021 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
In comment 13785005 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


In comment 13784996 RobCarpenter said:


Quote:


In comment 13784812 nochance said:


Quote:


How about picking Garry Zimmerman(who didn't want to play in NY)over Reggie White in the USFL dispersal draft. With LT and White on the same side of the defense the Giants might have won 5 super bowls.



To be fair to Young, he got two second round picks for Zimmerman.

The biggest mistake he made was Dave Brown.

With Derek Brown a close second



1991 to 1996 first round picks:

1991 Jarrod Bunch
1992 Derek Brown
1993 no pick (supplemental draft in 1992 to get Dave Brown)
1994 Thomas Lewis
1995 Tyrone Wheatley
1996 Cedric Jones

Best pick was Strahan - second round 1993.


For an eternity our second round picks (Collins, Marshall, Tiki etc) were better than our first.
RE:  
whozzat : 1/13/2018 7:11 am : link
In comment 13785478 arniefez said:
Quote:
facts (...) are your friend.


Haven't really seen that many on this thread... your yelling is certainly convincing, though.

Try the Daily News article  
arniefez : 1/13/2018 8:58 am : link
that's linked. Google is your friend too. None of this stuff is new news.
RE: Try the Daily News article  
whozzat : 1/13/2018 7:30 pm : link
I read it when it came out... it stunk then too. At least he was right about the outcome of the game.
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