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Duggan makes good point regarding Lions and Patricia

Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/13/2018 10:04 am
Quote:
You don't need Patricia's degree in aeronautical engineering to do the math on the Giants' coaching search: The team is reportedly down to three finalists and there are three other teams with head coaching vacancies. That means it's possible that the Giants could be left without a chair when the music stops. So they need a backup plan.

On cue, Newsday reported on Friday that the Giants have an unidentified "sleeper" candidate. There are plenty of potential candidates for the doomsday scenario outlined above. It also would be a shrewd PR move for the Giants to leak out the existence of a sleeper candidate because if they struck out with the three reported favorites, everyone would view their hire as a backup plan. But now the Giants can claim whoever they hire was the sleeper candidate all along.

Patricia has been reported as the favorite for the Giants job by the New York Daily News and ESPN's Giants blog, but the Patriots defensive coordinator is still considered the favorite for the Lions by Detroit outlets.

The tell that the Lions still believe they have a shot at Patricia is that they haven't moved onto their other top candidate, Texans defensive coordinator Mike Vrabel. Vrabel, who is also a finalist for the Colts' opening, is eligible to be hired now. If the Lions get word that Patricia is headed to the Giants, they'll pull the trigger on hiring Vrabel. Until that happens, they clearly believe they're still in the running for Patricia.


The weird thing about all of this is that BOTH the Lions and Giants are acting a bit like they may have their candidate already (or in negotiations with him). But although some on BBI poo-poo the idea of the Giants getting screwed with none of their top three candidates coming here, I think we have to consider this as a real possibility. This could be like 1993 all over again.
Everything you need to know for Day 13 of the Giants' coaching search: A sleeper candidate? - ( New Window )
Selling newspapers at its finest  
UConn4523 : 1/13/2018 10:12 am : link
whatever happens happens - other than money I dont know why anyone would want to move to Detroit and have to deal with that front office over staying somewhat local and going to NY.
If an unproven 1st Time HC or a failed retread  
YorkAveGiant : 1/13/2018 10:15 am : link
Doesnt want to come to the Giants to play for Mara and Tisch, with a proven, grizzly, pure football GM in Gettleman...and wants to go to the freakin lions or colts???

Then Fn let him.

We getting who we want.

Giants keeping this quiet and doing it the way the league is supposed to do it with guys still coaching.
RE: Selling newspapers at its finest  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/13/2018 10:15 am : link
In comment 13785655 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
whatever happens happens - other than money I dont know why anyone would want to move to Detroit and have to deal with that front office over staying somewhat local and going to NY.


Well, a big reason is Patricia knows Quinn, the GM for the Lions. Also, the Lions' QB situation is far, far more settled and Patricia won't be encumbered with the Eli transition nightmare.
This will be the biggest tell re: Patricia and the Giants.  
GMen131 : 1/13/2018 10:15 am : link
If/when Detroit moves on Vrabel, then you know we've got our guy (or at least who's been reported to be our guy). The longer Detroit waits it out, the more I feel like we end up with Shurmur (or I guess maybe Wilks as the backup plan). The waiting is painful lol
Detroit is an easier job  
AnnapolisMike : 1/13/2018 10:16 am : link
NY may be the most prestigious, but it also comes with the most pressure and ancillary bullshit. Could also be about the money and he is playing that game at the moment.

RE: RE: Selling newspapers at its finest  
AnnapolisMike : 1/13/2018 10:21 am : link
In comment 13785661 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:



Well, a big reason is Patricia knows Quinn, the GM for the Lions. Also, the Lions' QB situation is far, far more settled and Patricia won't be encumbered with the Eli transition nightmare.


The Giants took care of the nightmare by sitting Eli. The hard part is over, now it comes down to who is the best QB. I view Eli as a plus. He gives the Giants stability at QB if he plays well for the next two years. If the decline is real, then he sits when it is apparent Webb or someone else is ready.
RE: RE: Selling newspapers at its finest  
UConn4523 : 1/13/2018 10:23 am : link
In comment 13785661 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 13785655 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


whatever happens happens - other than money I dont know why anyone would want to move to Detroit and have to deal with that front office over staying somewhat local and going to NY.



Well, a big reason is Patricia knows Quinn, the GM for the Lions. Also, the Lions' QB situation is far, far more settled and Patricia won't be encumbered with the Eli transition nightmare.


Thats a short term vision, IMO. The Eli transition may not even be hat big of a deal with cometant people in charge (fans tend to think everything is awful). #2 overall pick, plus several probowlers on a relatively young defense, and the return of Beckham is simply a better scenario, IMO, especially long term.

Uprooting your family to Detroit is also a hard sell for anyone. I have family hat just did that from Florida and lets just say they dont exactly enjoy being there.
AnnapolisMike/UConn  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/13/2018 10:27 am : link
I don't think this is the slam dunk you guys do. The Giants are not as attractive as many Giants fans think they are. We have some great selling points, but some serious issues.

If the Lions were interviewing other candidates, I would be pretty sure Patricia is coming here. But they aren't. A Lions fan should also feel uneasy that the Giants have supposedly said Wilks is out of the picture.

And what is Arizona doing? Is Shurmur locked in there now too?

Four teams. Three "hot" coaches.
RE: RE: Selling newspapers at its finest  
Boy Cord : 1/13/2018 10:33 am : link
In comment 13785661 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 13785655 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


whatever happens happens - other than money I dont know why anyone would want to move to Detroit and have to deal with that front office over staying somewhat local and going to NY.



Well, a big reason is Patricia knows Quinn, the GM for the Lions. Also, the Lions' QB situation is far, far more settled and Patricia won't be encumbered with the Eli transition nightmare.


Plus, the Lions can keep Jim Bob Cooter as OC. Maintains continuity and takes a lot of time and focus off of Patricia. He can really hone in on defense and managing the team at a higher level. Makes a lot of sense.
Have to agree with that Eric  
Jim in Forest Hills : 1/13/2018 10:33 am : link
especially since Patricia just witnessed firsthand the power struggle between Brady and himself. Having Eli there may make it less attractive as he may become the "bad guy."

The funny thing about expectations though, everyone says the Lions fans expect less, but is this true today?

With Stafford, Lions should make the playoffs every year and should start making title runs in his prime.

Giants are in rebuild mode and will take time. I think Giants fans that see progress will be less disgruntled over an 8-8 season than Lions fans.

Its all about Patricia's perspective, which we dont know. Or that they even think about these matters.
RE: Detroit is an easier job  
Rory : 1/13/2018 10:35 am : link
In comment 13785663 AnnapolisMike said:
Quote:
NY may be the most prestigious, but it also comes with the most pressure and ancillary bullshit. Could also be about the money and he is playing that game at the moment.


This times 1000 , NY media and fans are a deterrent to coaching in the NY market. Wish fans would get that.
Honestly - if a potential coaching candidate  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/13/2018 10:39 am : link
is spooked by the fans and the media in a particular market, they are not the right candidate for that market, no matter how high they are ranked
he's uprooting his family either way  
bluepepper : 1/13/2018 10:40 am : link
Not sure what the difference is in moving a couple hundred miles to five or six hundred miles. Nor is there much of a difference between a posh suburb in Detroit and a posh suburb in NJ - except it's probably a good bit cheaper in Detroit.

You have to believe that Patricia and other  
Rory : 1/13/2018 10:41 am : link
candidates are evaluating how NY handled Macadoo's 2nd year after being in the playoffs the year before.

This is precisely why the organization didn't want to fall to the plea of the media and fans to fire Macadoo mid season.

Giants fans/media got what they wanted but now here's the downside of those actions.
The Lions have interviewed as many candidates....  
MOOPS : 1/13/2018 10:45 am : link
as we have. Patricia, Vrabel, Shurmur, Winston Moss, plus their own two Coordinators, both viable candidates. If they lose out on Patricia they're still in decent shape.
If we're dead set on Patricia and we lose out, we've likely also lost out on Shurmur who will already be spoken for. I don't really like our other options in that case.
Patricia is obviously in the driver's seat.

RE: Honestly - if a potential coaching candidate  
Rory : 1/13/2018 10:46 am : link
In comment 13785688 gidiefor said:
Quote:
is spooked by the fans and the media in a particular market, they are not the right candidate for that market, no matter how high they are ranked


So cliche to say.
RE: You have to believe that Patricia and other  
Sammo85 : 1/13/2018 10:48 am : link
In comment 13785691 Rory said:
Quote:
candidates are evaluating how NY handled Macadoo's 2nd year after being in the playoffs the year before.

This is precisely why the organization didn't want to fall to the plea of the media and fans to fire Macadoo mid season.

Giants fans/media got what they wanted but now here's the downside of those actions.


Total and utter nonsense.
The Giants are the better job..  
Sean : 1/13/2018 10:49 am : link
It isnt even close. There have been lean years here for a million different reasons. Is it a tough job? Of course, but it is 1000% a better job.
I dont think its a slam dunk at all  
UConn4523 : 1/13/2018 10:55 am : link
but the job is definitively better than the Lions job. Its not even a question. But there are other variables that we arent privy to which makes it still a question.
Eric is right...  
bw in dc : 1/13/2018 10:56 am : link
Quinn is the key in Detroit. If Patricia trusts him more than DG, which would make sense, than Detroit would be the leader in the clubhouse....
And moreso than fan expextations  
Jim in Forest Hills : 1/13/2018 10:57 am : link
are owner expectations. Will the Ford family be ok with a playoff run here and there? Or are they desperate to win the superbowl?

We know Mara wants the Lombardi, but I think they see the rebuild is ahead.
I don't see what's wrong with Wilks  
ij_reilly : 1/13/2018 10:58 am : link
So if the Giants miss out on the Big 3, they will probably choose Wilks.

I don't see a problem with that.

This is Gettleman's team now. I see a big plus in terms of organizational consistency by bringing in Wilks.

I would argue that the "thinking" across coach an GM was a major problem for the Giants over the past five years. I think Reese was not sufficiently on the same page as Coughlin or McAdoo (Not an excuse for McAdooo, shitty coach!).

Wilks would need to assemble a strong staff with some very experienced coaches. Along the lines of Tom Cable as OL coach, to use an example.

I am very pro Wilks.
RE: AnnapolisMike/UConn  
The_Boss : 1/13/2018 11:04 am : link
In comment 13785673 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I don't think this is the slam dunk you guys do. The Giants are not as attractive as many Giants fans think they are. We have some great selling points, but some serious issues.

If the Lions were interviewing other candidates, I would be pretty sure Patricia is coming here. But they aren't. A Lions fan should also feel uneasy that the Giants have supposedly said Wilks is out of the picture.

And what is Arizona doing? Is Shurmur locked in there now too?

Four teams. Three "hot" coaches.


So glad they hired Gettleman so fast with the premise of them getting a leg up on the competition for an extensive HC search. Mara is going to look
like a fool if the described doomsday scenario plays itself out and they need to circle back to Wilks. The fact that they had to leak a secret candidate lends itself to the notion that theyre admitting a doomsday scenario is definitely in play and they want to plant the seeds for the well, he was our guy all along narrative to avoid taking an embarrassing PR hit.
I dont want to sound  
BP in Delray : 1/13/2018 11:08 am : link
Hysterical, but in a larger sense, the HC of the NYG has traditionally been one of the most coveted jobs in all of footballcollege or pro. In my eyes, the fact that it possibly isnt anymore, and that a candidate would choose the Detroit Lions job over the Giants job, speaks to the level that John Mara has let this franchise fall to. Sure, Ill recognize MP knows the Lions GM, and athe QB situation is more stable. However, time was, if the Giants job was open, that meant something. Its part of our pride as Giants fansthe prestige and tradition that comes along with this franchise. The fact that it may be at all tarnished is upsetting and I hold John Mara directly accountable. His decision making over the last several years has been suspect and Im not sure its viewed as the stable franchise it once was.

Thats it, rant over. We shall see how it plays out.
Duggan keeps stealing from this website  
robbieballs2003 : 1/13/2018 11:13 am : link
The other night a poster posts that we could be screwed because we may miss out on Patricia, McDaniels, and Shurmur. Duggan then tweets almost the same exact thing. Then I remember Diver Down posting something whether it was him or the thread title called musical chairs. Now Duggan uses that in his article? Unreal.
RE: Duggan keeps stealing from this website  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/13/2018 11:14 am : link
In comment 13785720 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
The other night a poster posts that we could be screwed because we may miss out on Patricia, McDaniels, and Shurmur. Duggan then tweets almost the same exact thing. Then I remember Diver Down posting something whether it was him or the thread title called musical chairs. Now Duggan uses that in his article? Unreal.


I think it was actually the reverse. I think Dan originally tweeted about this, and then BBI started a discussion about it.
how would Patricia not take the giants job if he's a BB protege  
mphbullet36 : 1/13/2018 11:14 am : link
Bill would obviously push Patricia towards the giants job right? It really makes no sense outside the lions having stafford what in the world would make him lean towards detroit over us...our team and organization historically is more stable.

our division doesn't have aaron rodgers I would think patricia would know understand how brady has caused the teams in afc east to basically have no chance year in and year out.
We need a hitdog  
DCPollaro : 1/13/2018 11:15 am : link
Sighting to clear everything up
Short term vs. Long term  
George : 1/13/2018 11:15 am : link
To my eye, the Giants job is more attractive than the Lions' opening for a candidate who thinks he'll be roaming the sidelines for a long time. He knows he will have to oversee the farewell of Eli Manning, which will be painful for a lot of people and will put him in the crosshairs of some: but he also knows he'll have a young QB to groom, and that the two of them might ride off into the sunset together with a dozen years of successes to reflect on in their golden years.

But the Giants' roster is in shambles, with holes at about six different positions that need attention for the next few years to come. We won't be a playoff contender for the rest of this decade, so the short term will be tough.

The Lions, on the other hand, have some good pieces in place to make a run in 2018. They need a couple of Big Play guys and a lock down CB, but they're one good draft and two decent FA signings away from contending next year.

However, it's the Lions, and that means that something is bound to go wrong after a couple of good years. Coaches tend not to stick around that team for very long, so the guy thinking about taking that job will want to be a in "right now" frame of mind.

So I'd be willing to guess that Shurmer and McDaniels, who've been head coaches before and don't want to screw around with the pain of losing lots of games in the first three years of their contracts, will be more interested in the Lions job than the Giants job. And that Wilks and Patricia, eager to make their mark and establish a legacy of their own,, would be more interested in building from the ground up and making this a 12 year deal.

Just a random thought.


I've thought this for a while  
DavidinBMNY : 1/13/2018 11:16 am : link
It's obvious that the Giants job isn't amazingly appealing. NY should be more appealing then DET if your planning to spend 10 years of your life there given the cultural scene and what success in NY can do for someone.

There's a possibility that Bellichek's feelings about the organization carry a degree of influence with Patricia as well.

Detroit almost made the playoffs and did make it last year I believe. They have a pretty decent roster and probably have as much or more cap space with a lot less locker room headaches.

On the flip side our locker room is a complete disaster, we have 2 1st round picks that are basically busts and a QB in the twilight of his career.

I guess you could say the only place to go is "Up".

Maybe Patricia earlier in his life was a giants fan - that might be the rub :-) since he is from upstate NY.

At this point, I'd rate us better then Indy only as Irsay is Irsay, luck's health is ehhh. Maybe since Arizona doesn't have a QB a tad better.
RE: RE: Duggan keeps stealing from this website  
robbieballs2003 : 1/13/2018 11:18 am : link
In comment 13785721 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 13785720 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


The other night a poster posts that we could be screwed because we may miss out on Patricia, McDaniels, and Shurmur. Duggan then tweets almost the same exact thing. Then I remember Diver Down posting something whether it was him or the thread title called musical chairs. Now Duggan uses that in his article? Unreal.



I think it was actually the reverse. I think Dan originally tweeted about this, and then BBI started a discussion about it.


Nope
This search has been going on for what 10 days?  
twostepgiants : 1/13/2018 11:22 am : link
This is not a long time for a search. How about we take the Giants at their word and they have eliminated 3 candidates and they have moved 3 candidates into round 2. At this point Tisch wil be involved and the Giants are trying to narrow to a consensus first choice who would return for something between a 2nd interview and a job offer. It sounds like that person is Matt Patricia with Pat Shurmur having a shot too.
This is whats been out there.

Why is this so hard to believe? None of these candidates are stand outs. They are all new to the Giants. Yes there may be some connections like Belichick, etc but its entirely plausible that Patricia and Shurmur have never met Mara and Tisch and Gettleman and Abrams until 10 days ago.

None of these candidates are slam dunks and they all have pluses and minuses. Its entirely possible that the Giants want to deliberately move after they rushed their last search and jumped on a grenade after being pressured by McAdoo over Philly.

Theres no Tom Coughlin here, a guy with long Giants connections with a history of success as a head coach.

Add to the mix is that all of these guys are in the playoffs and their are stupid NFL rules to contend with.

This is a tough, risky hire.

The Giants should go through their process. They shouldnt be rushed.

If Patricia jumps to the Lions and Shurmur to the Cards, so be it. You ruled out Wilks, you dont go back. You move on to new candidates. Frank Reich, Dave Toub, Mike Vrabel, maybe some college coaches. Arizonas looking at NE LB coach, bring him in. Theres no guarantees on Shurmur or Patricia.
Here  
robbieballs2003 : 1/13/2018 11:27 am : link
RE: ...
robbieballs2003 : 1/11/2018 9:48 pm : link : reply
In comment 13784054 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Quote:

Dan Duggan
‏Verified account @DDuggan21
1h1 hour ago


"Doomsday scenario" for Giants would be Shurmur to Cardinals, Patricia to Lions, McDaniels to Colts



Hmmm

Quote:
Quote:

If

Tittle 9 20 64 : 7:18 pm : link : reply

Shurmur goes to the Cardinals, Patricia to the Lions, and McDaniels to the Colts. Whats plan B?
My best guess on whats happening here  
twostepgiants : 1/13/2018 11:28 am : link
Patricia wants the Giants, Lions want Patricia. Patricia is leader in Giants race but doesnt have the job yet.

Lions are waiting on Patricia and have Vrabel in hand. Patricia has told them he is still deciding and will likely meet with Giants again before a final decision is made. Lions think they are still in mix for Patricia. No one else seems to be in Vrabel so they have time to let Patricia decide.

If the Lions wanted Patricia and Patricia wanted the Lions, it would be done by now.
and  
robbieballs2003 : 1/13/2018 11:28 am : link
RE: ...
Diver_Down : 1/11/2018 9:56 pm : link : reply
In comment 13784054 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
[quote]
Dan Duggan
‏Verified account @DDuggan21
1h1 hour ago


"Doomsday scenario" for Giants would be Shurmur to Cardinals, Patricia to Lions, McDaniels to Colts

[quote]
I alluded to this in the Musical Chairs scenario back on the 8th.


Better find a seat when the music stops - ( New Window )
from the musical chairs link that Diver was talking about  
robbieballs2003 : 1/13/2018 11:29 am : link
RE: No way of knowing for sure
Diver_Down : 1/8/2018 9:51 am : link : reply
In comment 13777792 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Quote:

but according to various pundits...

Shurmur is favorite in Arizona.
Patricia is favorite in Detroit.
McDaniels is favorite in Chicago or Indy.


And with the way this past season went, it would be appropriate if we are left standing after the music stops. Just when we thought the shit-show was over, it apparently is making it's final encore.
My worry the past few days...  
Jerry K : 1/13/2018 11:30 am : link
There's a good possibility that Patricia is the Giants' first choice but he could go to the Lions instead, leaving the Giants with the third, fourth, or fifth guy on their list and a feeling that they've started off a new era on the wrong foot.
or what  
Jerry K : 1/13/2018 11:31 am : link
Robbieballs just said.
Where Duggan/BBI is going wrong here  
twostepgiants : 1/13/2018 11:31 am : link
Is assuming that the Giants have decided their man is Patricia. That is likely not the case. Patricia probably hasnt sealed the deal.

The thought process here seems to be Giants have decided and Lions have decided and its Patricia who is still undecided .

I dont think thats true. I think there is a faction in Giants management that is interested in Shurmur and still has questions on Patricia.

RE: My worry the past few days...  
robbieballs2003 : 1/13/2018 11:37 am : link
In comment 13785744 Jerry K said:
Quote:
There's a good possibility that Patricia is the Giants' first choice but he could go to the Lions instead, leaving the Giants with the third, fourth, or fifth guy on their list and a feeling that they've started off a new era on the wrong foot.


That wasn't me saying that. Other posters posted that the other night. I was posting that as evidence that Dan is taking the ideas from other posters and creating his articles from them.
there are good reasons for choosing NYG  
bluepepper : 1/13/2018 11:40 am : link
over Detroit but can we stop with the idea that there's some special mystique about the franchise or NYC?

You can win titles and build legends anywhere. Lombardi went to a piss ass little town in WI and built a dynasty. The Steelers had been garbage for decades and Pittsburgh was, to use current parlance, a shithole in the 1970's when Noll went there.

Patricia is a bright guy, he's not going to pick the Giants because Frank Gifford played here or because NYC is the "greatest city on earth" or other such nonsense.
RE: from the musical chairs link that Diver was talking about  
The_Boss : 1/13/2018 11:43 am : link
In comment 13785743 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
RE: No way of knowing for sure
Diver_Down : 1/8/2018 9:51 am : link : reply
In comment 13777792 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:


Quote:



but according to various pundits...

Shurmur is favorite in Arizona.
Patricia is favorite in Detroit.
McDaniels is favorite in Chicago or Indy.




And with the way this past season went, it would be appropriate if we are left standing after the music stops. Just when we thought the shit-show was over, it apparently is making it's final encore.


As if the franchise needs to be made the butt of jokes again. Im already hearing from people nobody wants to coach your wretched franchise.
robbie  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/13/2018 11:44 am : link
Two thing:

(1) It's not too hard to come to this conclusion on your own.

(2) Who cares? Beat writers get ideas/info from BBI all of the time. Garafolo even told me that.
RE: Where Duggan/BBI is going wrong here  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/13/2018 11:46 am : link
In comment 13785746 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
Is assuming that the Giants have decided their man is Patricia. That is likely not the case. Patricia probably hasnt sealed the deal.

The thought process here seems to be Giants have decided and Lions have decided and its Patricia who is still undecided .

I dont think thats true. I think there is a faction in Giants management that is interested in Shurmur and still has questions on Patricia.


None of us know for sure (which is the key statement), but the conventional wisdom is that Shurmur is the leading candidate in Arizona, McDaniels the leading candidate in Indy, and Patricia the leading candidate in Detroit.

So the same situation applies to all three.

Regardless, the reason why Patricia is "believed" to be the nom du jur is because the beat writers have said so.
IMO  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/13/2018 11:47 am : link
this "long term" verus "short term" argument holds less meaning in 2017.

What is long term in the NFL anymore? Hell, if a coach lasts four years now, it's a big deal.
This not 1993  
twostepgiants : 1/13/2018 11:48 am : link
You had a very hot market with highly regarded guys who had a lot of good options.

Tom Coughlin was an inside candidate who the Giants new very well. He ultimately turned down Giants for Boston College. There is no candidate here with a college option that we know of. College jobs are very attractive for a variety of reasons and BC especially if you have a certain background that TC had.

Dave Wannstedt was he DC of the dynasty Cowboys and was considered cant miss as he won 2 SBs and a national title for Miami as DC. Hes most akin here to Patricia who is not considered cant miss because of the number of coordinators who failed after BB. That wasnt the case in Dallas. Wannstedt turned down the Giants for the Bears. The BEars job is another great job for a great franshise in a great city with a long history. The Bears in 1993 had just come off maybe one of their best 10 year runs and had won a SB 8 years earlier and been to the playoffs several times. I think the Bears job can easily be seen as an equal to the Giants job in 1993.

The Lions, Cards and Colts are not equals to the Giants job and have had no where the Giants success.

Dan Reeves whom the Giants ultimately settled on was a long term successful head coach who had taken the teams to 3 Super Bowls. There is no Dan Reeves fall back in this market.

This is a very different market then what happened in 1993. In addition the Giants reputation as a franchise has changed. In 1993 they were considered a team resurrected by Parcells, LT, Simms, Young etc and that they were the only reasons for the success from 1984-1990 and that was over. The Giants may be back to the 70s.

Now the Giants have since been to 3 Super Bowls and won 2. They have proven to have stable ownership and management and are a blue chip NFL franshise.

Its not the same.
twostepgiants  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/13/2018 11:49 am : link
The point is that in 1993 we had to fall back to our 3rd or 4th option. Reeves wasn't even on the radar scope at first.
What the doomsayers leave out  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 1/13/2018 11:51 am : link
is that the pundits have also claimed that Patricia prefers NY. Why do we trust the pundits that say Patricia to Detroit and McD to Indy, and Shurmer to Arizona but conveniently leave out the part that doesn't point toward impending doom?
If  
PaulN : 1/13/2018 11:54 am : link
The Giants are left without a coach, then that tells us everything we need to know about John Mara. Keeping Reese here was a fucking disaster, I told you guys that, but I was told he would have a GM job in 5 minutes. He really did a number on this franchise. John Mara stood there are watched. Did nothing. They better get this right or they will see Giant fans react like they never seen before, this is not the old loyal days anymore, people will say screw you.
RE: IMO  
UConn4523 : 1/13/2018 11:55 am : link
In comment 13785764 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
this "long term" verus "short term" argument holds less meaning in 2017.

What is long term in the NFL anymore? Hell, if a coach lasts four years now, it's a big deal.


Its a huge deal. No candidate is going into this thinking, well, 4 years is average and thats what I want. They want a long term job which can only happen these days if they perform well.
RE: twostepgiants  
twostepgiants : 1/13/2018 11:55 am : link
In comment 13785766 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
The point is that in 1993 we had to fall back to our 3rd or 4th option. Reeves wasn't even on the radar scope at first.


Thats fine but the Giants had a first option, Then a second one. They went for TC but he didnt want them.

What if the Giants dont have a choice that they are ready to offer the head coach position to right now?

They like Patricia but arent sold? Not yet.

Everyone on here is acting like the Giants covet Patricia and are sitting their hat in hand waiting at the altar. What if that is simply not true? What if he has impressed them so far but want to see him again?
Hiring the Head Coach is like  
Pepe LePugh : 1/13/2018 12:01 pm : link
Picking draft picks. You may know who you want, but there's no guarantee your choice will be successful. Or that your second, third or fourth choice can't ultimately be THE right man for the job.
But if it is Patricia, Giants brass traveling to Boston for interviews when airports were shut down may drive home the commutability. If reports of Patricia favoring staying close to roots are true, this could tip the scales in Giants favor.
RE: robbie  
robbieballs2003 : 1/13/2018 12:02 pm : link
In comment 13785761 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Two thing:

(1) It's not too hard to come to this conclusion on your own.

(2) Who cares? Beat writers get ideas/info from BBI all of the time. Garafolo even told me that.


An idea is one thing. Basically taking it verbatim is another. I just think it is laziness and not right. If you disagree that is fine. It is all clickbait crap. And he is getting the credit for someone else. There is a reason that writers reference other people's reports, statements, research, work, tweets, etc. I don't think it should be any different here. Imo, this is more than just an idea.
UConn4523  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/13/2018 12:05 pm : link
You're missing the point. Smart candidates realize that if they don't succeed within two years, they are gone. The Giants are one of the most stable franchises in the NFL and they just fired a coach after 29 games.
in 1993  
bluepepper : 1/13/2018 12:07 pm : link
most everyone thought we were going to land Wannstedt and were shocked when he chose Chicago over NY.

Reeves was a good coach but a poor fit here. A better process and those concerns probably would have killed his candidacy.
But there was an air of desperation and a big name was attractive because it would quiet the critics.
I do think the Long Term/Short Term thing matters  
George : 1/13/2018 12:08 pm : link
The people who want to buy low are newcomers who want to be world beaters and those who've been around who want to put another pelt on the wall to cement a legacy.

Those who want to score quickly have been burned before and don't want to deal with the fallout from that.

I see McD to Andrew Luck and Shurmer to Matthew Stafford. Patricia comes to NY.

Arizona loses out here. I have no idea who's on their list, but if Wilks is one of them, and he turns out to be their guy, the Cardinals might get the best of the bunch.
RE: RE: Honestly - if a potential coaching candidate  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/13/2018 12:11 pm : link
In comment 13785694 Rory said:
Quote:
In comment 13785688 gidiefor said:


Quote:


is spooked by the fans and the media in a particular market, they are not the right candidate for that market, no matter how high they are ranked



So cliche to say.


That's not cliche. I think it's highly accurate. Dealing with external pressure from media is a necessary component of the job. If the guy is going to buckle, he's not the right fit. We've seen players not be able to handle playing in huge markets. Why can't it be true for coaches?
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/13/2018 12:12 pm : link
In terms of how the Giants are perceived, keep this in mind:

In the past few years, they have fired:

- One GM.
- One Director of College Scouting.
- Two head coaches.
- A bunch of assistant coaches.

This organization doesn't reek of stability right now.
Eric  
George : 1/13/2018 12:19 pm : link
I think UConn is onto something. I think smart coaches look for stable management and realistic expectations from their superiors. Hue Jackson survived an 0-16 season this year and 1-15 last year because no one in the organization expected him to do well with the roster trash they have in Cleveland. 2018 is the key for him, and he knows it: he went into that job understanding he had some job security because surely that was part of the conversation when he was hired.

The Giants didn't fire their coach in 2017 after only 29 games because they were a having a bad season. They fired him because he lost the locker room and the confidence of the front office: that's not due to losing games, but rather due to having a poor feel for the people around him (as well as other football related problems) - if it were only about won/loss records, then Tom Coughlin would've been fired a couple years before he was, because the Giants just weren't very competitive from 2012 to 2015 due to a variety of reasons (injury, salary cap hell, etc.).

When the Giants sit down to talk contracts with their guy, the conversation will have to turn to FO expectations and how much patience management will have with the Head Coach. If the roster's as shitty as we think it is - and just looking at it today makes my heart sink - then this is a Long Term job that will take a coach years to fully deal with. And some guys just don't have that kind of patience.


Your point about our perceived stability right now  
George : 1/13/2018 12:21 pm : link
is very well taken. We don't look good these days.
RE: ...  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 1/13/2018 12:23 pm : link
In comment 13785784 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In terms of how the Giants are perceived, keep this in mind:

In the past few years, they have fired:

- One GM.
- One Director of College Scouting.
- Two head coaches.
- A bunch of assistant coaches.

This organization doesn't reek of stability right now.


This is all true, but typical of teams with HC vacancies, and again, we are cherrypicking the negative. The Giants might look unstable recently, but I think you are painting it a bit more horrifying than it is.

The Giants have been in flux for 3 or 4 years after a long period of stability that included two Superbowls.

They aren't exactly the Browns.
RE: ...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/13/2018 12:24 pm : link
In comment 13785784 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In terms of how the Giants are perceived, keep this in mind:

In the past few years, they have fired:

- One GM.
- One Director of College Scouting.
- Two head coaches.
- A bunch of assistant coaches.

This organization doesn't reek of stability right now.


It's not a one-team league. You've got to take into context the fact that the NFL is very high in turnover every season. This is the first time the Giants have made front-office firings since when? 30 years?
Imagine  
Fast Eddie : 1/13/2018 12:25 pm : link
If Getts sets up an interview with Vrabel all hell would break loose.
I think the Giants have better personel on D  
Breeze_94 : 1/13/2018 12:27 pm : link
for what Patricia likes to do.

Man-to-man, agressive defense.

Jenkins and Apple do their best work playing physical man-to-man coverage. Collins is a jack of all trades safety.

Detroit has Darius Slay who is a very good corner, but outside of him they don't have much. Glover Quin is a decent safety, Jarrad Davis showed some flashes. Ziggy Ansah is a FA, Ngata is aging. Even their second best LB, Whitehead, is a pending FA.

Giants have the afore mentioned as well as a strong DL and a great draft position.
.. Patricia is considered the favorite for the for the Lions job  
KeoweeFan : 1/13/2018 12:28 pm : link
I understand how the media can make educated guesses as to whom the team's management would prefer, but how do they factor in what the candidate wants? I haven't seen for example any reports that says Patricia would rather be in Detroit rather than NY.
In that latter instance it would depend on what the candidate thinks of the situation and offer made to him in the interviews and that's certainly not public information.
RE: there are good reasons for choosing NYG  
clatterbuck : 1/13/2018 12:30 pm : link
In comment 13785755 bluepepper said:
Quote:
over Detroit but can we stop with the idea that there's some special mystique about the franchise or NYC?

You can win titles and build legends anywhere. Lombardi went to a piss ass little town in WI and built a dynasty. The Steelers had been garbage for decades and Pittsburgh was, to use current parlance, a shithole in the 1970's when Noll went there.

Patricia is a bright guy, he's not going to pick the Giants because Frank Gifford played here or because NYC is the "greatest city on earth" or other such nonsense.


It's not "mystique." It's the reality of a premier, bedrock franchise, solid, stable ownership, four SBs in 30 years, good facilities, the biggest market in the world, choice of excellent towns/communities to locate a family, an opportunity to make your mark on the game. Maybe some guys prefer a smaller stage. So be it. No guts, no glory.
George  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/13/2018 12:31 pm : link
McAdoo lost the locker room because the Giants were losing, and losing badly. I still think Giants fans are having trouble comprehending just how bad this team was last year. We game "this" close to having the all-time lowest scoring offense in team history. Think of all of the terrible Giants offenses of the 1970s (hell even the 1990s). The defense also became a bottom dweller again. And the special teams was probably the worst in the NFL.

Coaches lose locker rooms when teams lose. It's always been that way.

Why did the Giants lose? You can say bad coaching (though notice how all our coaches are being hired now?), bad luck, injuries, etc. But the real reason is the players didn't play well. The team has been poorly constructed. And this isn't a new thing:

2013: 7-9
2014: 6-10
2015: 6-10
2016: 11-5
2017: 3-13

During this time frame, the Giants have now fired two head coaches. The Giants are NOT a well-run operation right now and they haven't been in some time. Hence the reason Mara finally fired Reese and Ross.

Now instead of completely blowing things up, the team is hoping an old friendly face (Gettleman) can bring back stability while keeping all of the same people in the front office except for Ross. It has a bit of the same feel as the band-aid approach the Giants did in 2016 when they fired Coughlin and kept everyone else. It could work, but would it shock anyone if the Giants keep treading water with this approach?

My point here is that things change extremely quickly now in the NFL. We have witnessed a model franchise become a quasi-joke. The Giants are in very dangerous territory right now. And even Gettleman alluded to it during his introductory presser when he mentioned how picking the wrong QB can put a franchise in a really bad spot.

We're all hoping and praying they picked the right GM. That remains to be seen. But they also face the same challenge with the HC and QB. Any wrong decision and I guarantee you we are having the same conversation on BBI in January 2020.
Eric from BBI, what are you advocating for?  
twostepgiants : 1/13/2018 12:31 pm : link
Moving on from Patricia? Offering the job to Wilks because he will accept it tomorrow?

I dont really understand what is being advocated for?
RE: RE: RE: Selling newspapers at its finest  
ColHowPepper : 1/13/2018 12:34 pm : link
In comment 13785669 AnnapolisMike said:
Quote:
In comment 13785661 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Well, a big reason is Patricia knows Quinn, the GM for the Lions. Also, the Lions' QB situation is far, far more settled and Patricia won't be encumbered with the Eli transition nightmare. ///

The Giants took care of the nightmare by sitting Eli. The hard part is over, now it comes down to who is the best QB. I view Eli as a plus. He gives the Giants stability at QB if he plays well for the next two years. If the decline is real, then he sits when it is apparent Webb or someone else is ready.
First off, am in agreement with Eric's premise that the Giants' gig is not the many splendored gem much of BBI seems to think.
But, Mike: Usually I find a lot of acumen in your posts, but I think your Eli comment smacks of over-simplification, the hard part is not over, not with the Manning family mountain to climb. After that, given how difficult it has become for many Giants' fans to accept that Eli is in clear decline--and of course the pathetic state of the OL complicates that assessment--the issue is going to hand heavy over DG and whoever the HC is. And third, if/when it comes to the point that the decline is real and he sits--and how long will that take to play out??--then the team has the significant growing pains to work in the new QB and will that QB be the goods?
Very significant ??
RE: Eric from BBI, what are you advocating for?  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/13/2018 12:38 pm : link
In comment 13785801 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
Moving on from Patricia? Offering the job to Wilks because he will accept it tomorrow?

I dont really understand what is being advocated for?


I'm not advocating for anything. Read my original post. My point is I find it odd that it appears that the Giants and Lions are acting as if they think they have their guy. In New York's case, the beat writers are saying all signs say Patricia (so that's the assumption among fans too right now). But if that is true, then someone is going to be left holding the bag here. Same with Shurmur if the Giants like him (because many are tying him with Arizona).

My point is things would appear more settled if Indy, Detroit, or Arizona had another potential front-runner appear because right now there are four teams with three hot head coaching candidates. Someone appears likely to have to "settle" (at the very least in terms of PR purposes... I suspect Duggan's instincts are the Giants floating a "sleeper" candidate with Rock/Glauber is spot on... it's their PR fallback).
I think we're underestimating how coveted getting one of these jobs  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/13/2018 12:39 pm : link
is.

You can be realistic about the fact that being named a head coach for an NFL team is the fulfillment of a coaches' life goal. Everyone wants to get to the top of their profession. There's a reason the Browns keep finding people to take their money. Every coach wants one of these jobs. Every coach has the confidence that he can succeed at it. You don't get to this level in the business of competition without exceptional confidence.

We don't have to paint the Giants as the holy grail of jobs, because that's inaccurate too, but it's absolutely still a desirable job regardless of what challenges are in place here.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/13/2018 12:41 pm : link
What makes me think the Giants may already have their man is the fact that they have publicly already written off Wilks. But if Patricia is coming here, then why is Detroit not interviewing anyone else?

Again, same with Shurmur in Arizona and McDaniels in Indy.

Right now, it appears someone is going to get burned.
If the Giants have to circle back  
AnnapolisMike : 1/13/2018 12:42 pm : link
It will be to Spags, not Wilks. The organization likes him, He has past experience as a HC (any experience is good experience). I think the fact that Spags has not been hired elsewhere indicates the Giants still want him as a coordinator at the least.

I don't think they will force him on someone, but if you are being honest, he is one of the top available DC's.

Eric, i think its because few teams have decided  
twostepgiants : 1/13/2018 12:51 pm : link
These teams arent ready because there is no stand out candidate. They all have warts

The Giants have leaked a list narrowed to 3 guys and some kind of second round including Tisch

The Cards have said they have 9 guys and will eliminate down and will now start a 2nd round of interviews

The Lions seem to have set up an alternative in Mike Vrabel. Witth an shot still for Shurmur.

The Lions seem the closest to having decided- Patricia but no one knows for certain.

I dont think the Giants and Cards have finalized who they want yet.
I think the most puzzling team has been the Colts  
twostepgiants : 1/13/2018 12:56 pm : link
What are they doing?

They have a cancelled interview with Wilks, who is looking like he will not land a job this year. They interview a terrible college HC who subsequently withdraws from consideration after his interview.

It is puzzling. They either have McDaniels locked up or are completely clueless.

if McDaniels is locked up, why are they still interviewing? For show?
RE: RE: Duggan keeps stealing from this website  
Diver_Down : 1/13/2018 1:05 pm : link
In comment 13785721 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 13785720 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


The other night a poster posts that we could be screwed because we may miss out on Patricia, McDaniels, and Shurmur. Duggan then tweets almost the same exact thing. Then I remember Diver Down posting something whether it was him or the thread title called musical chairs. Now Duggan uses that in his article? Unreal.



I think it was actually the reverse. I think Dan originally tweeted about this, and then BBI started a discussion about it.


Nope. I made the post on 1/8/18. Four days before Duggan made the same analogy. My response with the musical chairs was made directly to you, Eric. I'll post a link.
RE: RE: RE: Duggan keeps stealing from this website  
Diver_Down : 1/13/2018 1:09 pm : link
In comment 13785822 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 13785721 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


In comment 13785720 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


The other night a poster posts that we could be screwed because we may miss out on Patricia, McDaniels, and Shurmur. Duggan then tweets almost the same exact thing. Then I remember Diver Down posting something whether it was him or the thread title called musical chairs. Now Duggan uses that in his article? Unreal.



I think it was actually the reverse. I think Dan originally tweeted about this, and then BBI started a discussion about it.



Nope. I made the post on 1/8/18. Four days before Duggan made the same analogy. My response with the musical chairs was made directly to you, Eric. I'll post a link.


Here is the response to Duggan's tweet on the 11th re: Musical Chairs. I provided the link to my original comment made on the 8th.
Easy to write a sports column when you write what you read from BBI - ( New Window )
I also do not think Rock article was a leak  
twostepgiants : 1/13/2018 1:15 pm : link
That article had nothing in it and there was no story. No citing anything that wasnt already out there. No sleeper or anything. It was just rampant speculation that there must be a 4th guy because what if the Giants 3 turn it down?

He brought up Wilks, Schwartz and Belichick. All stagnant rumored candidates.

I dont see how it could be Wilks. That makes zero sense. The Giants all but publicly disavowed him a day before and then they leak out he still may get it?

Schwartz is a more likely possibility as he was at least rumored as a front runner but never interviewed for who knows what reason.

I also dont see it being Spags as he was clearly passed over as well and would be hard to go back to that as anything other than we gout our last choice because no one would take us.

If the Giants in fact do lose out on the top 3, then 1 see only 2 possibilities
Restart the search with new names (Vrabel, Toub, Reich, Schwartz, college guys, etc) or there is indeed a true sleeper it there somewhere that doesnt need to be interviewed as part of the process (Saban?) who knows who.
RE: UConn4523  
UConn4523 : 1/13/2018 1:26 pm : link
In comment 13785779 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
You're missing the point. Smart candidates realize that if they don't succeed within two years, they are gone. The Giants are one of the most stable franchises in the NFL and they just fired a coach after 29 games.


Im not missing the point. McAdoo was fired for incompetence. If he didnt lose the team, win only 2 games, and didnt completely drop the ball with Eli hed probably still be our coach. Something like 7-9 without the Eli drama, IMO, means McAdoos job would have been safe.

Patricia would have to be an epic failure to only last 2 years here or anywhere else.
twosteps  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/13/2018 1:28 pm : link
Agree... I don't know what Indy is doing. Is McDaniels locked in there?
twosteps  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/13/2018 1:31 pm : link
Why I am not sure I agree with your premise that these teams are still trying to figure things out is they are all acting like they have their guy already.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but if there are four teams who seem to be locked into three coaches, someone is going to be settling.

Yes, the hole in this is us trusting the veracity of the media reports...but we have to work with what we know.
UConn4523  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/13/2018 1:32 pm : link
The new coach would have to be an epic failure.

Or the new quarterback (who will likely be a rookie).

Or the new GM.

A lot of moving parts.
I dont care who wrote it or if the idea was stolen  
The_Boss : 1/13/2018 1:47 pm : link
But the bottom line is the doomsday scenario exists and it would be a major blow to Mara and the organization if theyre the ones left standing without one of these 3. And by leaking out the mystery candidate, theyre at the very least cognizant of how it would look if they get stood up. As said above, it would be the cherry on top of this seasons horseshit sundae.
Eric, not only is the Colts the real wild card here  
twostepgiants : 1/13/2018 1:50 pm : link
But so is Vrabel

He is in the top 2 in Indy and Detroit according to reports

If he gets the Colts job, the Lions lose their #2 and begin pressuring Patricia. Or even if the Lions start thinking he might get the Colts job.
IndyStar reported 2 hrs ago that Vrabel was top 2 there  
twostepgiants : 1/13/2018 1:53 pm : link
That puts Vrabel in top 2 in 2 places
Vrabel/McDaniels in Indy - ( New Window )
RE: ...  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 1/13/2018 1:59 pm : link
In comment 13785810 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
What makes me think the Giants may already have their man is the fact that they have publicly already written off Wilks. But if Patricia is coming here, then why is Detroit not interviewing anyone else?

Again, same with Shurmur in Arizona and McDaniels in Indy.

Right now, it appears someone is going to get burned.


It adds up if the reports of Patricia and Vrabel being 1a and 1b in Detroit.

The Lions might be hoping for Patricia but content to take Vrabel if Patricia goes to NY. Hence, no more movement from Detroit.

In fact I'm getting that is exactly what is happening.

Meanwhile the Giants have a pecking order with MP at the top.
RE: RE: twostepgiants  
GFAN52 : 1/13/2018 2:02 pm : link
In comment 13785771 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
In comment 13785766 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


The point is that in 1993 we had to fall back to our 3rd or 4th option. Reeves wasn't even on the radar scope at first.



Thats fine but the Giants had a first option, Then a second one. They went for TC but he didnt want them.

What if the Giants dont have a choice that they are ready to offer the head coach position to right now?

They like Patricia but arent sold? Not yet.

Everyone on here is acting like the Giants covet Patricia and are sitting their hat in hand waiting at the altar. What if that is simply not true? What if he has impressed them so far but want to see him again?


Remember they said Tisch was going to meet all the finalists so I suspect they will bring Patricia, Shurmur and possibly McDaniels in for a second interview.
RE: UConn4523  
UConn4523 : 1/13/2018 2:02 pm : link
In comment 13785851 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
The new coach would have to be an epic failure.

Or the new quarterback (who will likely be a rookie).

Or the new GM.

A lot of moving parts.


No doubt, but again, Detroit. These guys arent blind to history, and Detroit has been rotten for much longer than this crappy season we endured. Outside of the Browns and maybe Oakland, whos been a worse franchise than Detroit over the past 15/20 years?
RE: RE: ...  
bluepepper : 1/13/2018 2:09 pm : link
Quote:

It adds up if the reports of Patricia and Vrabel being 1a and 1b in Detroit.

The Lions might be hoping for Patricia but content to take Vrabel if Patricia goes to NY. Hence, no more movement from Detroit.

this ignores what twostep is saying - that Vrabel is a strong candidate in Indy. Detroit can't be sure he'll still be there. Inday may prefer McDaniels but he may want too much power or money. Plus he's just the type of prick to stiff someone at the last moment.
Who was the Rooney Rule candidates in  
Simms11 : 1/13/2018 2:22 pm : link
Indy and Detroit? Havent heard who their candidates were. Wilks was supposed to interview in Indy, but that was cancelled and so who was their Rooney Rule candidate?

Regardless, its possible that Patricia hasnt been officially offered anything yet. Unless of course Detroit did and he wants to talk with the N.Y. Giants first?! And so Detroit might be hanging on right now to hear from him. Vrabel appears to be their fallback. How much Coordinator experience does he have? It would be like a Wilks hire IMO. Anyway, whos the fallback in Arizona? I think the pieces will start falling in place once one is hired. Hopefully, this week.
RE: Who was the Rooney Rule candidates in  
GFAN52 : 1/13/2018 2:27 pm : link
In comment 13785925 Simms11 said:
Quote:
Indy and Detroit? Havent heard who their candidates were. Wilks was supposed to interview in Indy, but that was cancelled and so who was their Rooney Rule candidate?

Regardless, its possible that Patricia hasnt been officially offered anything yet. Unless of course Detroit did and he wants to talk with the N.Y. Giants first?! And so Detroit might be hanging on right now to hear from him. Vrabel appears to be their fallback. How much Coordinator experience does he have? It would be like a Wilks hire IMO. Anyway, whos the fallback in Arizona? I think the pieces will start falling in place once one is hired. Hopefully, this week.


Kris Richards, DC of the Seahawks.
Lets trade Mara for Kraft  
Alwaysblue22 : 1/13/2018 2:42 pm : link
That will solve the problem..then BB will come with him.
The entire process if fucked up IMO.  
bigblue1124 : 1/13/2018 2:48 pm : link
To not allow a team to hire an assistant when they are in the tournament is absurd. All it does is set that person up for failure. The league works quick shit just look at Gruden and his NEW o-line coach Cable was released a day earlier and scooped up.
The entire process is flawed let the prospects announce their hire so said prospect can not only pick and choose his assistants but move on and focus on the job at hand.
Vrabel  
jeffro1 : 1/13/2018 2:52 pm : link
Is a finalist for Detroit and Indy, so there is the 4th candidate for 4 chairs. Seems like Detroit wants a defensive guy so they can continue with JBC. So if they dont get MP they move on to MV.

My guess:
Giants - Patricia
Lions - Vrabel
Cards - Shurmur
Colts - McDaniels
All smoke. I think the Giants have their choice.  
larryflower37 : 1/13/2018 3:26 pm : link
Belichick is going to advise both to choose the Giants if it is available.
All the doomsday, sky is falling, conspiracy posters are going to ride this too the end.
If you are coach with any balls or ego you choose NY. Battle in a top market in a top division.
This is all click bait. Saying the Giants might miss out gets people clicking.
This will continue until the Giants get their guy.
This in shambles thing can be fixed in a year or two  
DavidinBMNY : 1/13/2018 3:29 pm : link
We have talent, we have some resources and a high draft pick.

It's not the end of the world.
Let's not lose sight that  
section125 : 1/13/2018 4:48 pm : link
Patricia, McDAniels and Shurmur cannot take anybody's job until their team loses or gets through the Super Bowl.

Patricia might be able to indicate back channel where he is going, but technically can't.

As for Bossman's dumbass negative comment about hiring Gettleman early to get a jump on the rest of the league and then not getting anything done - what part of the NFL rule about not being able hire an active team's coaches do you not understand.
The Giants got their interviews done early and are waiting on guys whose teams are still in the playoffs. Thet cannot hire their guy yet.
RE: All smoke. I think the Giants have their choice.  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/13/2018 5:19 pm : link
In comment 13786006 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
Belichick is going to advise both to choose the Giants if it is available.
All the doomsday, sky is falling, conspiracy posters are going to ride this too the end.
If you are coach with any balls or ego you choose NY. Battle in a top market in a top division.
This is all click bait. Saying the Giants might miss out gets people clicking.
This will continue until the Giants get their guy.


So let me get this straight, speculating that a scenario where Patricia goes to Detroit, McDaniels to Indy, and Shurmur to Arizona is "conspiracy" talk?

SMH.
RE: RE: All smoke. I think the Giants have their choice.  
larryflower37 : 1/13/2018 5:34 pm : link
In comment 13786127 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 13786006 larryflower37 said:


Quote:


Belichick is going to advise both to choose the Giants if it is available.
All the doomsday, sky is falling, conspiracy posters are going to ride this too the end.
If you are coach with any balls or ego you choose NY. Battle in a top market in a top division.
This is all click bait. Saying the Giants might miss out gets people clicking.
This will continue until the Giants get their guy.



So let me get this straight, speculating that a scenario where Patricia goes to Detroit, McDaniels to Indy, and Shurmur to Arizona is "conspiracy" talk?

SMH.


Are you going to argue It's nothing but pure speculation?
This is the natural "sky is falling"
BBI crew waiting for the Giants to mess it up.
Could it happen absolutely.
But saying the Giants are the best choice and will get who they want doesn't drive clicks
RE: RE: Who was the Rooney Rule candidates in  
Simms11 : 1/13/2018 6:46 pm : link
In comment 13785935 GFAN52 said:
Quote:
In comment 13785925 Simms11 said:


Quote:


Indy and Detroit? Havent heard who their candidates were. Wilks was supposed to interview in Indy, but that was cancelled and so who was their Rooney Rule candidate?


Kris Richards, DC of the Seahawks.


Thanks
Why havent  
TommyWiseau : 1/14/2018 1:25 am : link
We interviewed Vrabel?
RE: Why havent  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/14/2018 1:29 am : link
In comment 13786785 TommyWiseau said:
Quote:
We interviewed Vrabel?


Two years as a position coach
one year as a defensive coordinator in which his defense was ranked 32nd in points allowed and 20th in total yardage allowed.

Incredibly inexperienced and underqualified.
RE: ...  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/14/2018 8:34 am : link
In comment 13785810 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
What makes me think the Giants may already have their man is the fact that they have publicly already written off Wilks. But if Patricia is coming here, then why is Detroit not interviewing anyone else?

Again, same with Shurmur in Arizona and McDaniels in Indy.

Right now, it appears someone is going to get burned.

It could also be as simple as the interview window for active playoff teams has closed until the week after the conference championship games or until their teams lose.

Jim Schwartz, George Edwards, Frank Reich and/or John DiFilippo (and others) could be candidates for any of the vacancies. Just because teams appear to be done interviewing doesn't mean that they actually are.
As an incoming HC with interest  
mdc1 : 1/14/2018 8:37 am : link
my first question would 1) what are your plans with Eli manning and are you drafting his replacement? 2) if Eli does not perform well in camp am I required to start him

This is important because it indicates willingness or non-willingness to have Eli as their real boss. If that individual accepts Eli with no draft implies that it could get choppy and a longer runway is needed to really turn things around. Important because the incompetence of the owners and staff in putting a guy without experience into a difficult job and then tossing them to the wolves does look good, nor does the handling of the previous coach and then promptly dumping millions on defensive position upgrades. This view is a complete reversal of the claims of the Giants franchise as one that is coveted.
My opinion is completely biased being a Giants fan.  
blueblood : 1/14/2018 9:14 am : link
However I simply dont see the Lions as a better choice than the Giants for a head coaching job.

RE: Honestly - if a potential coaching candidate  
montanagiant : 1/14/2018 10:35 am : link
In comment 13785688 gidiefor said:
Quote:
is spooked by the fans and the media in a particular market, they are not the right candidate for that market, no matter how high they are ranked

100% correct. I mean seriously do we really want an HC who is scared of the media and the scrutiny of the NYC area? That screams to me someone who lacks confidence and why would we want that person to coach the Giants?

I also disagree with the idea we are not a desirable spot because we fired 2 HC's in 3 years. Where the mistake was made was not firing Reese at the same time as TC which allowed him to pick McAdoo who was obviously in over his head. Who would the hell look at the disastrous season we just had AND NOT think McAdoo and Reese needed to go? That does not make us unstable that makes us proactive in righting a wrong and if any HC candidate does not see it that way is either stupid or lacks the confidence needed to be a HC
There is a good chance the Giants and Lions already have their guy.  
Captplanet : 1/14/2018 11:05 am : link
When Crennel(Cleveland) and Weis(Notre Dame) left the Pats in 2005 they did not announce their hirings until after the Conference championship game. Belechek does not like anything interfering with his process, so I'm sure a stipulation to the Pats giving permission to speak with their assistants, teams may have had to agree to not announce any contracts or hires, until a specific date.


Weis and Crennel leave Pats - ( New Window )
RE: ...  
Andy in Boston : 1/14/2018 11:34 am : link
In comment 13785784 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In terms of how the Giants are perceived, keep this in mind:

In the past few years, they have fired:

- One GM.
- One Director of College Scouting.
- Two head coaches.
- A bunch of assistant coaches.


And the colts and Lions do?

This organization doesn't reek of stability right now.
RE: If the Giants have to circle back  
PatersonPlank : 1/14/2018 12:25 pm : link
In comment 13785811 AnnapolisMike said:
Quote:
It will be to Spags, not Wilks. The organization likes him, He has past experience as a HC (any experience is good experience). I think the fact that Spags has not been hired elsewhere indicates the Giants still want him as a coordinator at the least.

I don't think they will force him on someone, but if you are being honest, he is one of the top available DC's.


We could end up with Spags by default
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