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If you were Patricia ....

Manny in CA : 1/13/2018 1:06 pm
Who do you think has the best chance of coming back strong - the Giants or Lions ?

The Lions - Matthew Stafford, Ziggy Ansah, Darius slay, Eric Ebron

Or the Giants: Three 1st team 2016 ALL PROs - Damon Harrison, Landon Collins, Odell Beckham and two 2nd team - Olivier Vernon and Janoris Jenkins

The Giants flopped in 2017 because of injuries to key players and their weak Offensive Line was finally fully exposed. But, the Lions are fundamentally the inferior team, across the board.

The Giants are maybe 3 or 4 top tier players from making a SB run; the Lions maybe 6 or 7 (or more)
The Giants are still an organization that is incredibly loyal to  
yatqb : 1/13/2018 1:10 pm : link
their employees. This isn't a short term deal for any HC who shows the talent to lead and create a winning tradition here. They don't need to win SBs, they just need to be consistently competent and they'll be here for a decade. So I'd go with the Giants.
Lions  
Gross Blau Oberst : 1/13/2018 1:20 pm : link
best outlook for the next few years.

Sorry to say. Recovering the hole that Jerry Reese dug will take some time.

NYC is a better place to live than Detroit, but from purely at team outlook, Detroit is the better option.

.....  
BrettNYG10 : 1/13/2018 1:25 pm : link
If I were an offensive guy high on this draft class's QB's, I'd love to go to NY. Odell, a QB you can groom, and the potential for a good defense immediately. I think the Giants can contend quicker than most if things break right.

But as a defensive guy, you have a QB in place with Stafford, and can turn the team into a contender if you fix the D. I'm not betting on my ability to develop a QB if I'm a defensive guy, so I'd head to Detroit and count on fixing the defense and riding Stafford.
Giants draftin 2 Detroit 20  
UberAlias : 1/13/2018 1:29 pm : link
Giants picking way ahead in every round. #2 pick in every round is a huge asset to build off of. Look at the quality of players on the board after day 1 every year. Our 2nd round pick will be pretty sweet. Pretty much starting the draft off with 2 first rounders practically.
This is a  
dancing blue bear : 1/13/2018 1:31 pm : link
good point. and def. a large piece of the puzzle.

One thing that occurred to me is the assumption that Detroit, with Stafford, gives an edge to Detroit in terms of QB.

This may not be true. It actually may be a detriment.

Stafford is a very good QB, and still relatively young. I concede those things but he has a huge contract. I believe he gets 27 mil/ year, and is signed for 5 more years.

So you have a QB that is good, but may not be your guy, and there is no way to get rid of him for a while.

Additionally he takes up a huge portion of the Salary cap.

1. The New England model: Brady takes less then market value. They take later QBs and develop them.

2. Patricias idea for a team MAY be: a defensive team that runs the ball. He will not be able to build that identity with Stafford and his contract. Stafford is "the face of the franchise" and will be for a while.

3. There seems to be a thought that Detroit wants to hang on to Cooter for Stafford

OTOH: NY has a veteran QB with a short term contract at a reasonable price (YES 15 Mil for next year is reasonable)

They have a developmental QB

They have a high draft pick

That is options. That is flexibility. I belive flexibility is THE KEY COMPONENT to The patriots/ Belly philosophy. It will allow him to build HIS team faster.

Giants also have signifigantly more talented pieces on Defense.

I think the NFC East is an "easier" division to win in.

Green Bay and Minnesota are 2 legit teams and will be for a while (assuming Rodgers)

Washington is either gonna pay Capt. Kirk 25 mil/ year or start over. They are screwed

Dallas- I am not sold on Dak. The Oline is getting old, and has declined since Callahan left. anf Jerruh is always gonna undermind the team

The Eagles have a good young team, but I think Doug Pedersen is a liability, and Wentz is coming off major injury. I know people love to glorify Wents, but RGIII never looked the same after his, and is currently out of the league.

Anyway, stuff to think about
I donít get the whole Detroit has Stafford as a huge advantage  
UberAlias : 1/13/2018 1:36 pm : link
The guy is a good QB but he is nothing special. How many years has he been in the league? Zero division titles and zero playoff wins. And if your argument is thatís all because of the lack of talent around him, then I fail to see how arguing that Detroit has poor talent helps the case for Detroit being so attractive. Either the QB is overrated (heís certainly over priced imo) or the team has poor talent.


If I looked at Detroit I would see Staffords contract as a negative. Huge contract with no success to justify it. Thatís not a selling point for me.
Giants in a better position...  
Zepp : 1/13/2018 1:37 pm : link
One year removed from going 11-5. Virtually the same roster. Need to upgrade oline and a couple of other areas. Add Barkley to that offense and you have a playoff team.
The Giants are picking 2nd over-all ...  
Manny in CA : 1/13/2018 1:39 pm : link

The Lions 20th over-all in the up-coming draft. You can do a whole lot of improvement, picking 2nd.

Where the Lions have the advantage is in 2018 projected cap space with $51.8M, the Giants are at $24M ....

The Giants have basically one unit to fix - the O-line (with some minor tweeks at WR and on defense); the Lions have holes, all over-the-place.
Uber  
XBRONX : 1/13/2018 1:39 pm : link
The Giants are getting one better player(hopefully) than Detroit. If you dont count that one superior player and think of the dratt starting with the 20th pick. Get the point.
Having a previous working relationship with ...  
Boy Cord : 1/13/2018 1:40 pm : link
... Detroitís GM is big. As I mentioned in another thread, keeping Jim Bob Cooter on staff could be a major advantage as well. Detroit is the better option based on what they have today. The Giants have history.
Blue bear  
UberAlias : 1/13/2018 1:42 pm : link
I was typing the same thing as you regarding Stafford contract. Highest paid player in the league without ever winning a division title or playoff game smells of an overpriced deal that is going to be restricting. The NE guys knowing what Brady contract does for their team, hopefully Patricia is smart enough to see that.
RE: Uber  
UberAlias : 1/13/2018 1:43 pm : link
In comment 13785858 XBRONX said:
Quote:
The Giants are getting one better player(hopefully) than Detroit. If you dont count that one superior player and think of the dratt starting with the 20th pick. Get the point.
. One superior player with a prohibitive overpriced contract he has yet to deliver on.
Outlook from Detroit  
eric2425ny : 1/13/2018 1:48 pm : link
I live in the area, and Iím pretty sure most Lions fans here would admit that the Giants job is way more attractive. And no offense because you probably donít pay very close attention to the Lions which is understandable, but if Ebron is viewed as part of the Lions nucleus no coach would want this job. I would probably substitute him with Golden Tate as part of your core group of players. Ebron is viewed here as Mayhewís biggest bust during his time here as GM. He sucks at blocking, has hands of stone, injured quite a bit, and even worse for the Lions, they passed up on Aaron Donald and Beckham to pick him in 2014. As for Stafford, he is absolutely overpaid, but thatís the position. Derek Carr was the highest paid the year before that, just depends on who the next FA is. I think Staffordís lack of success is very similar to what Eli has experienced he last few years. Subpar line (it has been better than the Giants especially this year), and no running backs producing forcing him to constantly try to force things to keep his team in games.
RE: Uber  
UberAlias : 1/13/2018 1:55 pm : link
In comment 13785858 XBRONX said:
Quote:
The Giants are getting one better player(hopefully) than Detroit. If you dont count that one superior player and think of the dratt starting with the 20th pick. Get the point.
That one superior player(pick) is an opportunity to hand pick your franchise QB if you believe there is one. That's huge. And if the Giants don't like any of the QBs, they can almost certainly trade the pick to a team who does and acquire an extra #1 next year + other picks in return.
eric  
XBRONX : 1/13/2018 1:56 pm : link
Ebron has hands of stone? How many dropped passes did he have last year?
Cooter  
eric2425ny : 1/13/2018 1:59 pm : link
One more thing. I keep seeing everyone say how good Cooter is as an OC. He looked decent one year, and people were saying he may get HC consideration the following year. That was this season and no one is saying anything about him being a HC anymore, not now anyway. Their offensive line suffered some injuries but was still arguably better than the year before. Their offense was not very good at all this season, they couldnít run or score when they needed to which is why they missed the postseason. The fan base here sounded much like ours in terms of frustration with McAdooís predictable play calling. Every first down was Abdullah or Riddick up the middle. I donít see Cooter being a strong selling point to a new coach. That may help us if they are forcing that in DET.
I like Stafford  
UConn4523 : 1/13/2018 1:59 pm : link
but Patricia may not, itís foolish for anyone to speak for him. And while heís a D coordinator heís been around offense plenty.

Who knows what he prefers but we have better defensive parts and better picks - so if we are going to assume what he would like, why not that?
The problem for Detroit  
The_Boss : 1/13/2018 2:09 pm : link
And any team in that division is if Aaron Rodgers doesnít miss significant time, nobody else wins the division. In the East, unless you believe Carson Wentz does for Philly what Rodgers does for GB, there is more parity. Iím not saying the NYG are going to challenge Philly next year, but the talent gap between the 2 isnít as immense as it was during the Chip Kelly years. The NYG should have won down there in September and, despite being severely short handed, held their own in the 2nd matchup.
RE: eric  
eric2425ny : 1/13/2018 2:10 pm : link
In comment 13785885 XBRONX said:
Quote:
Ebron has hands of stone? How many dropped passes did he have last year?


Hands of stone may be a bit harsh, although he was third in the league in drops in 2016. He just has a knack for dropping passes when they count the most. He dropped four against Carolina this year, one a TD. The fans are always all over him about it. I think the main reason is that he is supposed to be this ďreceivingĒ TE specialist, and thatís the reason they deal with his subpar blocking. But if he is dropping passes that makes him a dual liability. You expect more in year 4 from the #10 overall pick in the 2014 draft. He may not even be on the team next season.
Sure, if you look  
Pete in MD : 1/13/2018 2:10 pm : link
at things short-term but MP's a smart guy who might see the big picture. You can be the head honcho for a flagship franchise that represents one of the greatest cities in the world or a perennial loser that represents a city that has seen better days (and even in its best days could never hold a candle to NYC.)
Eric  
XBRONX : 1/13/2018 2:13 pm : link
he dropped 4 against Carolina? Every stat site has him dropping three passes all year.
RE: The problem for Detroit  
eric2425ny : 1/13/2018 2:14 pm : link
In comment 13785905 The_Boss said:
Quote:
And any team in that division is if Aaron Rodgers doesnít miss significant time, nobody else wins the division. In the East, unless you believe Carson Wentz does for Philly what Rodgers does for GB, there is more parity. Iím not saying the NYG are going to challenge Philly next year, but the talent gap between the 2 isnít as immense as it was during the Chip Kelly years. The NYG should have won down there in September and, despite being severely short handed, held their own in the 2nd matchup.


This is a good point. No one was happy to see anyone get hurt, but Detroit fans were all excited when he went down for the simple reason that they may actually have a chance to win the division with Rodgers out, the Bears struggling and the Vikings seemingly in a bad spot at QB with Keenum at that time. And once again they came up short.
RE: Eric  
eric2425ny : 1/13/2018 2:21 pm : link
In comment 13785912 XBRONX said:
Quote:
he dropped 4 against Carolina? Every stat site has him dropping three passes all year.


Depends on what you consider a drop. 2 of them were ďcontestedĒ and 2 were actual drops. Trust me, the guy has not lived up to the hype, Lions fans were cheering for Darren Fells every time he entered the game over Ebron. Iím just giving you the perspective of what the local market thinks of this guy since most people on here probably donít pay very much attention to the Lions.
If I am Patricia  
mdc1 : 1/13/2018 2:34 pm : link
I would need to understand the turnaround time expected in terms of runway to success and the personnel plans. If equitable for both opportunities, I rule out Detroit (shithole) unless they bought me a nice house in a great neighborhood or nice digs in the Detroit clubhouse. Taking a family to Detroit seems like a terrible thing to do knowing the crime and so forth.
I feel like the Lions  
darren in pdx : 1/13/2018 2:37 pm : link
have been a sexy sleeper pick for so many years now...and nothing.
..  
Peppers : 1/13/2018 2:42 pm : link
Its an easy answer when you take off your red and blue tinted glasses fellas..

Detroit has a top 10 offense armed with a very good QB in the prime of his career. Patricia only needs to establish a running game (draft = LOADED) and improve the scoring defense (Patricia's forte). A lot of people feel Detroit is on the cusp. Not to mention Jim Bob Cooter is highly thought of around the league. (Quinn brought Cooter to New England to meet Patricia)

Patricia and Quinn have a very good relationship. The only reason this is all still in question is because Patricia is about as tight lipped as Belichick and from those who know him best, he's 100% focused on the Titans. He's also in no rush to leave New England so if Detroit or NYG for that matter get impatient (Detroit won't), he'll stay and do it all again next year.

Canít wait until  
bradshaw44 : 1/13/2018 2:44 pm : link
They announce Cowher.
Detroit would be a tough sell job to the wife.  
Blue21 : 1/13/2018 3:13 pm : link
But you don't have to live in the city. He's very good friend with the GM so that accounts for something. Money wise and length of contract? Could be the deal breaker. I'm thinking Detroit might have the Giants there. I'll bet Detroit more willing to take a chance with a longer deal and more money.
RE: Canít wait until  
BeckShepEli : 1/13/2018 3:17 pm : link
In comment 13785969 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
They announce Cowher.


Haha Bradshaw itís not happening
If he chooses Detroit over us that would be quite sobering.  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/13/2018 3:21 pm : link
This is the hole Reese put us in. And some of the people on here just started being critical of him during the 2017 season. Pretty amazing.
Detroit sucks  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/13/2018 3:51 pm : link
This NY Giants team is going to turn things around faster than most of you are predicting - The NY Giants is the plumb head coaching job of the 4 out there -- and Gettleman and the FO represent absolute stability -- turning this team around and making hash gets you straight into the hall of fame

The Lions -- if they do okay and still don't get the big one -- you are in obscurity for the rest of your coaching career -- and Stafford has never been a winner in the NFL - doesn't have an Oline - doesn't have as much as you think going for it

If you all weren't so familiar with the Giants and so wrapped up in the foul stench of the past season -- you'd clearly see that NY has a huge differential in talent over Detroit on both sides of the ball

Get the WRs healthy -- get some real offensive line and a real RB -- and the Giants can rock.

Get a couple of CBs and LBs and the Defense will be solid.

I want to remind you that most everyone thought the Giants were Superbowl bound this season -- just because things went sour in a "perfect storm" doesn't mean that wasn't true

RE: Detroit sucks  
BleedBlue : 1/13/2018 4:14 pm : link
In comment 13786041 gidiefor said:
Quote:
This NY Giants team is going to turn things around faster than most of you are predicting - The NY Giants is the plumb head coaching job of the 4 out there -- and Gettleman and the FO represent absolute stability -- turning this team around and making hash gets you straight into the hall of fame

The Lions -- if they do okay and still don't get the big one -- you are in obscurity for the rest of your coaching career -- and Stafford has never been a winner in the NFL - doesn't have an Oline - doesn't have as much as you think going for it

If you all weren't so familiar with the Giants and so wrapped up in the foul stench of the past season -- you'd clearly see that NY has a huge differential in talent over Detroit on both sides of the ball

Get the WRs healthy -- get some real offensive line and a real RB -- and the Giants can rock.

Get a couple of CBs and LBs and the Defense will be solid.

I want to remind you that most everyone thought the Giants were Superbowl bound this season -- just because things went sour in a "perfect storm" doesn't mean that wasn't true


exactly...people around here are acting like we have 30 fucking holes. we have a very valuable pick and already a few seriously impactful players...im sorry but IMO, you fix the oline and draft a good RB, this team could be right back in the mix fighting for a wildcard spot next year....people can say im nuts, but think about it...OBJ back healthy with engram and shepard, add a solid back and a revamped OL (sign norwell, spend a high pick on OL, add wheeler to mix and resign fluker). if that defense shows anything like they were in 2016, they could def compete
.  
Clintqb17 : 1/13/2018 4:15 pm : link
Personally, I think the lions would be my choice. Iím choosing the team that has there QB In place for the next decade. Yes, we have the 2 pick and you can argue you get to groom your own QB. Who cares about grooming. Give me the guy thatís proven and Iíll roll with him.
Based in history and tradition  
Rjanyg : 1/13/2018 4:26 pm : link
NYG is better than Detroit. Add the fact that his family lives closer to East Rutherford and Little Bill I am sure would say positive thugs about NYG.

He graduated from and Upstate NY college as well ( RPI ).

I'm curious what his favorite pro team was growing up?
...  
Mdgiantsfan : 1/13/2018 4:30 pm : link
Detroit has the lower flower but NY the higher ceiling! Detroit hast two attractive aspects tonit, 1) the better QB when taking longevity and production into consideration and 2) lower expectations. In NY you have an aging yet still capable, SB winning QB to go along wih arguably the best WR in the game. Also a defense that shown that it can be an upper tier unit. Add to that, you have a franchise that has valeued stability and has a track record for success. Detroit has none of that. Again while Stafford is a good QB, he has won nothing. In NY you have a good chance of adding a very good franchise QB to build on in addition to Eli.
girdiefor  
XBRONX : 1/13/2018 4:43 pm : link
You forgot the Giants need pass rushers
In Chinese ...  
Manny in CA : 1/13/2018 8:54 pm : link
The second character of the word used for "crisis" also appears in the word for "opportunity," but all it really means is "moment" or "incipient moment"

As related to the Giants, the up-coming draft does represent an "incipient moment" - a new beginning, an opportunity to ...

#1 clean up the mess that is the offensive line

#2 find a complimentary receiver for OBJ

There are secondary needs (like more pass rushers and LBs), but these are not acute.

It's not often that a team with six ALL PROs ends-up picking #2 over-all in the draft.

Jerry Reese did an excellent job rebuilding the defense but was inept in his efforts to field a top tier O-line (even with two #1, (Pugh & Flowers) and two #2s (Beatty & Richburg). Lets hope Gettleman does better ...

If he succeeds, I'm not worried about Philly; as was stated we matched up toe-to-toe, this past year with a depleted roster. They can be had.
RE: Detroit would be a tough sell job to the wife.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/13/2018 9:24 pm : link
In comment 13785991 Blue21 said:
Quote:
But you don't have to live in the city. He's very good friend with the GM so that accounts for something. Money wise and length of contract? Could be the deal breaker. I'm thinking Detroit might have the Giants there. I'll bet Detroit more willing to take a chance with a longer deal and more money.


The city of detroit sucks. The surrounding suburbs have some really, really nice and very affluent neighborhoods. People tend to think of detroit as only the broken down city.
Lions and it isn't close  
DavidinBMNY : 1/14/2018 10:39 am : link
They have Stafford and a decent roster.
RE: Detroit sucks  
Thegratefulhead : 1/14/2018 12:06 pm : link
In comment 13786041 gidiefor said:
Quote:
This NY Giants team is going to turn things around faster than most of you are predicting - The NY Giants is the plumb head coaching job of the 4 out there -- and Gettleman and the FO represent absolute stability -- turning this team around and making hash gets you straight into the hall of fame

The Lions -- if they do okay and still don't get the big one -- you are in obscurity for the rest of your coaching career -- and Stafford has never been a winner in the NFL - doesn't have an Oline - doesn't have as much as you think going for it

If you all weren't so familiar with the Giants and so wrapped up in the foul stench of the past season -- you'd clearly see that NY has a huge differential in talent over Detroit on both sides of the ball

Get the WRs healthy -- get some real offensive line and a real RB -- and the Giants can rock.

Get a couple of CBs and LBs and the Defense will be solid.

I want to remind you that most everyone thought the Giants were Superbowl bound this season -- just because things went sour in a "perfect storm" doesn't mean that wasn't true
NFW, The Giants job is the worst out there by a LARGE margin. Whoever wins this prize(lol) is going to have have to transition away from a SB winning QB loved by the fan base, who, along with the QB, believe he still has the same magic. The last guy that tried, got fired in less than a week because Eli played the situation so well. No, it will be a full blown QB controversy, with fans, ownership and locker room all divide with a fucked up salary cap as a bonus. You will be signing up for a shit show in NY.
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