Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

Archived Thread

NFT: Cole to Astros

Dave in Hoboken : 1/13/2018 6:26 pm
Ken Rosenthal& #8207;Verified account
@Ken_Rosenthal

Source confirms: Gerrit Cole to #Astros. First reported: @TBrownYahoo.
---------------------------------

Glad the Yanks didn't pay a crazy price for him, especially Torres.
Thank God!  
Stan in LA : 1/13/2018 6:27 pm : link
He's gonna get hammered in the AL.
God damn it  
adamg : 1/13/2018 6:28 pm : link
I hope Chance Adams comes up and pitches like a top 3 rotation guy. That would be nice.

The Stros are really good.
More info  
adamg : 1/13/2018 6:30 pm : link
Quote:
Ken Rosenthal

Verified account

@Ken_Rosenthal
6m6 minutes ago
More
Source confirms: Colin Moran headed from #Astros to #Pirates. Joe Musgrove also in deal, per @TBrownYahoo.
Javy Vasquez  
averagejoe : 1/13/2018 6:32 pm : link
Yanks traded for him twice after solid NL seasons. He threw BP in AL. If Frazier has to go I'm glad it was not for Cole.
Two lesser pieces also per Heyman  
adamg : 1/13/2018 6:34 pm : link
Quote:
Jon Heyman

Verified account

@JonHeyman
2m2 minutes ago
More
sources: pirates will get 4 back in gerrit cole, tho musgrove and moran are expected to be the main pieces

17 replies 113 retweets 85 likes


MAkes you wonder why they wouldn't take a Yankees deal. You'd think they'd get much better value if Frazier is headlining...
If they were asking for Frazier, I'm glad Cash  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/13/2018 6:36 pm : link
didn't do that.
RE: If they were asking for Frazier, I'm glad Cash  
adamg : 1/13/2018 6:38 pm : link
In comment 13786268 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
didn't do that.


Well it sounds like they would have accepted far less than Frazier. They did! This is pissing me off now. We could have gotten Cole for peanuts...
RE: RE: If they were asking for Frazier, I'm glad Cash  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/13/2018 6:39 pm : link
In comment 13786270 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 13786268 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


didn't do that.



Well it sounds like they would have accepted far less than Frazier. They did! This is pissing me off now. We could have gotten Cole for peanuts...


They very well could've been asking more from the Yanks considering just how deep our system is.

Cole had well over a 4 ERA last year in the NL. I don't get why some think he would come here and be great.
RE: RE: RE: If they were asking for Frazier, I'm glad Cash  
adamg : 1/13/2018 6:41 pm : link
In comment 13786271 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 13786270 adamg said:


Quote:


In comment 13786268 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


didn't do that.



Well it sounds like they would have accepted far less than Frazier. They did! This is pissing me off now. We could have gotten Cole for peanuts...



They very well could've been asking more from the Yanks considering just how deep our system is.

Cole had well over a 4 ERA last year in the NL. I don't get why some think he would come here and be great.


Adding a high ceiling guy to an already decent rotation could put us over the top. If he comes and sucks, it doesn't matter too much because he only has to be a 4 or 5. If he comes and does really well, we'd have 4 guys who are top of the rotation types (Tanaka+), 3 of whom would be cost controlled for more than this year (Gray, Severino, and Cole).

RE: RE: If they were asking for Frazier, I'm glad Cash  
BigBlueShock : 1/13/2018 6:45 pm : link
In comment 13786270 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 13786268 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


didn't do that.



Well it sounds like they would have accepted far less than Frazier. They did! This is pissing me off now. We could have gotten Cole for peanuts...

Oh please. You really think that if Cashman could have had him for peanuts he wouldnít have? Every single report we seen said that Pittsburgh was insisting on Torres, to start. Not exactly peanuts.
RE: RE: RE: If they were asking for Frazier, I'm glad Cash  
adamg : 1/13/2018 6:46 pm : link
In comment 13786281 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 13786270 adamg said:


Quote:


In comment 13786268 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


didn't do that.



Well it sounds like they would have accepted far less than Frazier. They did! This is pissing me off now. We could have gotten Cole for peanuts...


Oh please. You really think that if Cashman could have had him for peanuts he wouldnít have? Every single report we seen said that Pittsburgh was insisting on Torres, to start. Not exactly peanuts.


I'm pissed with the Priates FO not Cashman.
Wouldn't be surprised at all if Cashman still upgrades  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/13/2018 6:47 pm : link
the rotation at some point during the season.
Final trade  
adamg : 1/13/2018 6:48 pm : link
Quote:
Ken Rosenthal

Verified account

@Ken_Rosenthal
2m2 minutes ago
More
Source: Outfielder Jason Martin is fourth player heading from #Astros to #Pirates for Gerrit Cole, along with Colin Moran, Joe Musgrove and Michael Feliz.

24 replies 171 retweets 133 likes
They didn't want Fraizer ....  
Beer Man : 1/13/2018 6:56 pm : link
They wanted Torres.
Feels like the Yanks  
Phil in LA : 1/13/2018 6:58 pm : link
had turned their attention elsewhere before this deal even happened.
RE: They didn't want Fraizer ....  
section125 : 1/13/2018 7:10 pm : link
In comment 13786300 Beer Man said:
Quote:
They wanted Torres.


So they took less because they couldn't get Torres. Holy cut off your nose to spite your face Batman...
RE: RE: RE: RE: If they were asking for Frazier, I'm glad Cash  
chopperhatch : 1/13/2018 7:17 pm : link
In comment 13786273 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 13786271 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


In comment 13786270 adamg said:


Quote:


In comment 13786268 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


didn't do that.



Well it sounds like they would have accepted far less than Frazier. They did! This is pissing me off now. We could have gotten Cole for peanuts...



They very well could've been asking more from the Yanks considering just how deep our system is.

Cole had well over a 4 ERA last year in the NL. I don't get why some think he would come here and be great.



Adding a high ceiling guy to an already decent rotation could put us over the top. If he comes and sucks, it doesn't matter too much because he only has to be a 4 or 5. If he comes and does really well, we'd have 4 guys who are top of the rotation types (Tanaka+), 3 of whom would be cost controlled for more than this year (Gray, Severino, and Cole).


4 or 5 starter? Sevvy, Tanaker, Gray, C.C....he would be a 55th period. I don't give up a prospect like Frazier for a 5th starter with a plus 4 era in the NL Central. Hell I don't know if I give him up if we needed a 4th. Montgomery pitched great last year and I am perfectly happy seeing what we have in him. He's earned it and we are covered in case he falters as the 5th starter, then we have his like Adams to bring up.

I'm not happy the Astros got him, but glad the Yanks didn't give up Frazier for him.
Pirates fuck up, as usual.  
bceagle05 : 1/13/2018 7:23 pm : link
Baltimore will probably take an inferior offer on Machado due to the same "Yankee tax." Once proud franchises....
RE: Feels like the Yanks  
TheMick7 : 1/13/2018 7:47 pm : link
In comment 13786305 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
had turned their attention elsewhere before this deal even happened.


Agree Just waiting for the move!
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: If they were asking for Frazier, I'm glad Cash  
adamg : 1/13/2018 7:50 pm : link
In comment 13786347 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 13786273 adamg said:


Quote:


In comment 13786271 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


In comment 13786270 adamg said:


Quote:


In comment 13786268 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


didn't do that.



Well it sounds like they would have accepted far less than Frazier. They did! This is pissing me off now. We could have gotten Cole for peanuts...



They very well could've been asking more from the Yanks considering just how deep our system is.

Cole had well over a 4 ERA last year in the NL. I don't get why some think he would come here and be great.



Adding a high ceiling guy to an already decent rotation could put us over the top. If he comes and sucks, it doesn't matter too much because he only has to be a 4 or 5. If he comes and does really well, we'd have 4 guys who are top of the rotation types (Tanaka+), 3 of whom would be cost controlled for more than this year (Gray, Severino, and Cole).




4 or 5 starter? Sevvy, Tanaker, Gray, C.C....he would be a 55th period. I don't give up a prospect like Frazier for a 5th starter with a plus 4 era in the NL Central. Hell I don't know if I give him up if we needed a 4th. Montgomery pitched great last year and I am perfectly happy seeing what we have in him. He's earned it and we are covered in case he falters as the 5th starter, then we have his like Adams to bring up.

I'm not happy the Astros got him, but glad the Yanks didn't give up Frazier for him.


I'm not an expert. But I don't think the Stros gave up a Frazier quality of prospect. So yes. I'm glad Frazier is here too but I don't think he's the player we had to give up.
That is a weak return for the Pirates.  
Jay on the Island : 1/13/2018 9:37 pm : link
Another great move by the Astros as they add Cole who will be their #3 SP and be one of the better ones in baseball. Moran is the main get but he has defensive concerns at 3B so if he has to move to 1B his value decreases greatly.
i'm glad we didn't empty the shelves  
RasputinPrime : 1/13/2018 9:48 pm : link
for Cole. I'm not sold on him rebounding after two down years and if the Pirates insisted on anything resembling what I read, i'm glad we passed.

I wouldn't say the prospects the Astros gave up were weak - they just aren't the top of the shelf prospects in their cupboard (Tucker, Whitley and Bukauskas). Feliz and Musgrove could still be very very good and Moran is someone they must believe just needs a clear path to the Show.
Disappointed...  
Milton : 1/13/2018 10:12 pm : link
Because I was excited about Cole's upside. I still think the Yankees make a move for a starting pitcher before March and none of the remaining candidates thrill me when considering their expected price tag (either via trade or free agency).

My hope was that the Yankees could put together a deal for both Cole and Josh Harrison that included Frazier, Adams, and a couple of lesser prospects like Wade and Tate. Cole is now gone, but maybe Harrison is still in play.

Maybe the soundest strategy is to just let the current roster man the fort until the trading deadline. Are they likely to get a better deal on a starting pitcher now or at the deadline? I guess that depends on how Montgomery and the Yankees minor league prospects are performing? Does Frazier's trade value go up or down or stay the same between now and then? Same goes for Adams and Andujar, not to mention Torres, Florial, and Sheffield.
Not at all unhappy about this.  
Jim in Hoboken : 1/13/2018 10:34 pm : link
Don't know why people forgot so quickly. 2017 was great because they gave Judge, who looked lost in the cameo in 2016, and Severino, who was penciled in for the pen, a chance and they blossomed. Let's give Frazier, Adams, Andujar and Sheffield a chance first. You can always trade them if you decide they are not in your future.

Just hope that Cash won't now go and overpay for Darvish.
I have to wonder  
Matt in SGS : 1/13/2018 10:39 pm : link
if the Yankees backed off Cole and they are going to put the heat on Baltimore to trade them Machado and use guys rumored for Pittsburgh to go to the Orioles.

All in all, I'd be ok if the Yankees stand pat and wait for opportunities to arise.
...  
robbieballs2003 : 1/13/2018 11:55 pm : link
Quote:
pirates wanted at least 1 of andujar or frazier from yankees, the sides had trouble agreeing on others in package and word is never got close to a deal.

-- Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman)†January 14, 2018
RE: Disappointed...  
chopperhatch : 1/14/2018 12:41 am : link
In comment 13786670 Milton said:
Quote:
Because I was excited about Cole's upside. I still think the Yankees make a move for a starting pitcher before March and none of the remaining candidates thrill me when considering their expected price tag (either via trade or free agency).

My hope was that the Yankees could put together a deal for both Cole and Josh Harrison that included Frazier, Adams, and a couple of lesser prospects like Wade and Tate. Cole is now gone, but maybe Harrison is still in play.

Maybe the soundest strategy is to just let the current roster man the fort until the trading deadline. Are they likely to get a better deal on a starting pitcher now or at the deadline? I guess that depends on how Montgomery and the Yankees minor league prospects are performing? Does Frazier's trade value go up or down or stay the same between now and then? Same goes for Adams and Andujar, not to mention Torres, Florial, and Sheffield.


Milton, no offense because you're a good poster, but what is with this fixation you have with Cole? All season, you were clamoring for the Yanks to empty the farm for Cole and Gray. At this point having gotten one in Gray, with Sevvy's emergence and Montgomery, why would you unload for Cole? He has been good in a far weaker division and his numbers are about what Monty's are (albeit after onky one year) and he would be the 5th starter. This is the most Steinbrennery thing I could possibly imagine. Cole is Jeff Weaver 2.
And upside?  
chopperhatch : 1/14/2018 12:43 am : link
He'll be 28 at the beginning of the season!
RE: RE: Disappointed...  
Milton : 1/14/2018 1:14 am : link
In comment 13786758 chopperhatch said:
Quote:

Milton, no offense because you're a good poster, but what is with this fixation you have with Cole? All season, you were clamoring for the Yanks to empty the farm for Cole and Gray. At this point having gotten one in Gray, with Sevvy's emergence and Montgomery, why would you unload for Cole?
What can I say, Cole was the one who intrigued me the most of all the names mentioned because he's still young enough to regain his ace status and my attitude is: come heavy or not at all. I'm not all that interest in adding another mid-rotation guy, I want an Ace! And I'd rather not see them go in the direction of Darvish if it means they have to unload Robertson or Gardner to avoid the tax and/or make a longterm financial commitment. I tend to think the Darvish talk was just a bluff, but who knows.
And after all my posts on the subject...  
Milton : 1/14/2018 1:16 am : link
It would've been wimpy of me not to chime in after all was said and done.
RE: Javy Vasquez  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 1/14/2018 1:30 am : link
In comment 13786264 averagejoe said:
Quote:
Yanks traded for him twice after solid NL seasons. He threw BP in AL. If Frazier has to go I'm glad it was not for Cole.


WTF does Gerrit Cole have to do with Javier Vazquez? I know quite a few of you got on this asinine/ridiculous "Cole isn't any good" fix, but this is bordering on pure stupidity. Vazquez had a below average HR rate EVERY single season he was in the Majors. Gerrit Cole has been in the Majors 5 seasons and his HR rate was terrific prior to last season. The guy's FIP from 2013-2016 was 3rd best in the NL behind Kershaw and Arrieta. The teams with the 2 best rosters in the AL both wanted to add the guy, but the geniuses on BBI know better. Sheesh.
RE: RE: Javy Vasquez  
chopperhatch : 1/14/2018 4:01 am : link
In comment 13786788 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 13786264 averagejoe said:


Quote:


Yanks traded for him twice after solid NL seasons. He threw BP in AL. If Frazier has to go I'm glad it was not for Cole.



WTF does Gerrit Cole have to do with Javier Vazquez? I know quite a few of you got on this asinine/ridiculous "Cole isn't any good" fix, but this is bordering on pure stupidity. Vazquez had a below average HR rate EVERY single season he was in the Majors. Gerrit Cole has been in the Majors 5 seasons and his HR rate was terrific prior to last season. The guy's FIP from 2013-2016 was 3rd best in the NL behind Kershaw and Arrieta. The teams with the 2 best rosters in the AL both wanted to add the guy, but the geniuses on BBI know better. Sheesh.


I think Montgomery is a better pitcher and we have him right now
RE: RE: They didn't want Fraizer ....  
Beer Man : 1/14/2018 10:29 am : link
In comment 13786332 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13786300 Beer Man said:


Quote:


They wanted Torres.



So they took less because they couldn't get Torres. Holy cut off your nose to spite your face Batman...
The article I read last week was that the Bucs wanted Torres, Andujar (spelling?), and Adams. First, Torres is a non-starter. Second, refused to give-up three premium prospects. Sounds like he was willing to give Frazier and Adams, but not Andujar. I could see the Frazier and Adams deal being good for the Yanks as there is a glut of OFs right now, and Adams wouldn't be needed if they had Cole. The article also said that the Bucs liked Fraizer, but were not in love with him.
RE: RE: If they were asking for Frazier, I'm glad Cash  
LauderdaleMatty : 1/14/2018 10:49 am : link
In comment 13786270 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 13786268 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


didn't do that.



Well it sounds like they would have accepted far less than Frazier. They did! This is pissing me off now. We could have gotten Cole for peanuts...


No way you know that. Teams also always try to extort the Yanks. That is a fact. I donít get the Cole obsession.
It's important that the Yankees stick to their guns in negotiations  
GiantJake : 1/14/2018 11:07 am : link
Teams are always going to ask for the moon. It's just how it is. The trick is sometimes having the courage to walk away from the table. Especially with the strength and depth of their farm system right now. No GM wants to be seen as losing a trade and handing the Yanks a talented player. Cashman has been successful making his best offer and refusing to allow the other team to drive up the price. Sometimes that means taking the deal off the table. So be it. Now when Cash says he is prepared to walk away from the table, teams will have reason to believe him.
RE: It's important that the Yankees stick to their guns in negotiations  
Beer Man : 1/14/2018 11:26 am : link
In comment 13787246 GiantJake said:
Quote:
Teams are always going to ask for the moon. It's just how it is. The trick is sometimes having the courage to walk away from the table. Especially with the strength and depth of their farm system right now. No GM wants to be seen as losing a trade and handing the Yanks a talented player. Cashman has been successful making his best offer and refusing to allow the other team to drive up the price. Sometimes that means taking the deal off the table. So be it. Now when Cash says he is prepared to walk away from the table, teams will have reason to believe him.
+1.
RE: RE: RE: If they were asking for Frazier, I'm glad Cash  
adamg : 1/14/2018 11:32 am : link
In comment 13787195 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
In comment 13786270 adamg said:


Quote:


In comment 13786268 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


didn't do that.



Well it sounds like they would have accepted far less than Frazier. They did! This is pissing me off now. We could have gotten Cole for peanuts...



No way you know that. Teams also always try to extort the Yanks. That is a fact. I donít get the Cole obsession.


I'm basing that on the package they actually accepted. I agree with those people saying there was a Yankee tax here. And good on Cashman to leave the Pirates douchebag FO at the table.
RE: RE: RE: RE: If they were asking for Frazier, I'm glad Cash  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/14/2018 1:01 pm : link
In comment 13787329 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 13787195 LauderdaleMatty said:


Quote:


In comment 13786270 adamg said:


Quote:


In comment 13786268 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


didn't do that.



Well it sounds like they would have accepted far less than Frazier. They did! This is pissing me off now. We could have gotten Cole for peanuts...



No way you know that. Teams also always try to extort the Yanks. That is a fact. I donít get the Cole obsession.



I'm basing that on the package they actually accepted. I agree with those people saying there was a Yankee tax here. And good on Cashman to leave the Pirates douchebag FO at the table.


Agree 100%.
I read this morning  
arniefez : 1/14/2018 1:37 pm : link
That Cashman was willing to trade Adams or Frazier for Cole but not both of them. Hopefully both guys are big contributors for the Yankees in 2018 if they arenít traded somewhere else.
Back to the Corner