Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter)
1/14/18, 9:09 AM
Patriots defensive coordinator Matt Patricia is likely to become the Detroit Lions next head coach, league sources told ESPN. More on Sunday NFL Countdown.
Dave Birkett (@davebirkett)
1/14/18, 9:11 AM
The report said eventually the deal is likely to get done so were still pretty much where weve been the last week or so.
Art Stapleton (@art_stapleton)
1/14/18, 9:14 AM
Which is why the Giants were extremely hesitant to declare Patricia as the favorite. Said that all along.
Now ESPN says he will choose the Lions. NYG were prepared for this, but it's a blow
New England Patriots defensive coordinator Matt Patricia, though linked to the New York Giants' job, is likely to become the next head coach of the Detroit Lions, league sources told ESPN.
Patricia and the Lions still need to agree to and work out the contract details after the Patriots' season ends. Link - ( New Window )
the use of the word likely means this is still speculation and could go either way
It has to be speculation. They arent officially allowed to negotiate yet. If they came out and said it was a done deal there would be tampering issues.
Paul Schwartz (@NYPost_Schwartz)
1/14/18, 9:17 AM
As the New York Post has been reporting, Matt Patricia was one of THREE top candidates for the Giants. Now there are two, Pat Shurmur and Josh McDaniels.
DO NOT discount Shurmur.
Giants just may be left at the alter here. McDaniels seems intent on Indy so that leaves Shurmur. And Arizona may be the front runner there.
Hello, Mr. Wilks? Hey man, that stuff about you not being a candidate? Hey, we were just kidding!
Would be a huge blow to the franchise and how theyre perceived throughout the league. Glad Mara was adamant in hiring Gettleman so quickly in part to get a leg up on the HC search.
Forget being a Giants fan - I just cannot fathom why Patricia would choose the Lions over the Giants. What about all the reports about not wanting to uproot his family, joining a losing franchise vs. a winning franchise, stable ownership etc.?
It just makes no sense unless the Lions are offering a significantly higher salary.
Giants just may be left at the alter here. McDaniels seems intent on Indy so that leaves Shurmur. And Arizona may be the front runner there.
Hello, Mr. Wilks? Hey man, that stuff about you not being a candidate? Hey, we were just kidding!
If hes the guy Gettleman wants, they should let him hire him. Especially since Gettleman has got the rep of a guy thats not exactly easy to work with. Some of these guys might not want to team with him
Forget being a Giants fan - I just cannot fathom why Patricia would choose the Lions over the Giants. What about all the reports about not wanting to uproot his family, joining a losing franchise vs. a winning franchise, stable ownership etc.?
It just makes no sense unless the Lions are offering a significantly higher salary.
Sure it does for the reasons I listed in my thread yesterday.
Forget being a Giants fan - I just cannot fathom why Patricia would choose the Lions over the Giants. What about all the reports about not wanting to uproot his family, joining a losing franchise vs. a winning franchise, stable ownership etc.?
It just makes no sense unless the Lions are offering a significantly higher salary.
Youre assuming they wanted to offer Patricia the job
Paul Schwartz (@NYPost_Schwartz)
1/14/18, 9:17 AM
As the New York Post has been reporting, Matt Patricia was one of THREE top candidates for the Giants. Now there are two, Pat Shurmur and Josh McDaniels.
DO NOT discount Shurmur.
Its really Shurmur or bust. Indy likely lands McDaniels.
Giants just may be left at the alter here. McDaniels seems intent on Indy so that leaves Shurmur. And Arizona may be the front runner there.
Hello, Mr. Wilks? Hey man, that stuff about you not being a candidate? Hey, we were just kidding!
If hes the guy Gettleman wants, they should let him hire him. Especially since Gettleman has got the rep of a guy thats not exactly easy to work with. Some of these guys might not want to team with him
Wheres all of this evidence that Gettleman is hard to work with? Because aging vets that were making too much money didnt like the fact that he had no problem moving on from them in Carolina? Steve Smith and Deangelo Williams bitching about getting cut isnt exactly an indictment of Gettleman relationship with his colleagues. He was fired because the pervert owner had a soft spot for some of the players that Gettleman planned on cutting.
Ian Rapoport
Verified account @RapSheet
20s20 seconds ago
#Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels has indicated to potential assistants to wait for him. The belief is he takes the #Colts job, as he's the clear favorite, sources say. Indy's other finalist is Mike Vrabel.
I think McAdoo just completely scared Mara off of these guys
This isn't one of these things where the Lions go 13-3 next year and you hear stories that Patricia was the Giants guy, but they wouldn't commit to him without doing a second interview while the Lions would, so he picked the Lions.
But I still do not see any great reason for Patricia to uproot his family and move 1/3 of the way across the country....for the Lions.
You gloss over all their problems while making the Giants sound like a dumpster fire.
The reason the Giants fell to the depths they have is because of Ben McAdoo. For some reason Mara let an incompetent boob into the building and then handed him the keys to the team. I will NEVER understand that and I'm sure we'll never hear the real story about who wanted him, and then who wanted to promote him.
It just strikes me as a very short-sighted move to say "Hey, I know the GM and I like Stafford better than Eli, so I'm moving to Detroit. Family be damned." I just don't see it as THAT much more appealing. The Giants are rebuilding, have the #2 pick in every round and a winning tradition. And he wouldn't even have to move if he didn't feel like it.
The only thing that makes sense, to me, is $$$ or that's his only play. And I'm not even knocking DET, my fiance is from that area and it's really a fine place to live, the suburbs are great and I highly doubt he's worried about any lack of nightlife or club scene.
While some can care less about PR, this is a hit if indeed we are losing out on Patricia to the Lions of all teams. Again I know nothing can be made or said officially, we see the unofficial leaks all the time.
If we were waiting for Matty P. to make his decision and it truly is him choosing Detroit over NY then Mara and Getts look very bad in their attempt to restore pride to the Giant name. Again if true, waiting this long to be left at the altar just isnt a good look for either of them. If that is not the case, then I dont see how you dont push the right narrative using your back channels in the media to avert looking this bad
Tried to be adamant about it without sounding redundant but as I said Patricia to Detroit is as bad of a secret as Shanahan to San Fran was last year. This theyre down to three is completely false and now the beats will do there best to backpedal and spin this.
Still in play for Shurmur but if he goes to Arizona, a team seemingly in NFL purgatory over the NYG, then yes indeed its an epic embarrassing blow to Mara, Gettleman, and us as fans. Rock fucking bottom. Just one more kick to the balls for old times sake from 2017.
Tried to be adamant about it without sounding redundant but as I said Patricia to Detroit is as bad of a secret as Shanahan to San Fran was last year. This theyre down to three is completely false and now the beats will do there best to backpedal and spin this.
While the beats would need to back pedal to restore some credibility, its more on the Giants PR team to do the same. Either way they let that narrative run rampant all week without any attempts to to tell the right story.
Another job in three years. Sometimes the bright shinny object is not always the best choice.
Remember,
There's a little boy and on his 14th birthday he gets a horse... and everybody in the village says, "how wonderful. The boy got a horse" And the Zen master says, "we'll see." Two years later, the boy falls off the horse, breaks his leg, and everyone in the village says, "How terrible." And the Zen master says, "We'll see." Then, a war breaks out and all the young men have to go off and fight... except the boy can't cause his legs all messed up. and everybody in the village says, "How wonderful."
No reason to get pissed off if we miss out, we may be having a stroke of luck and not know it. If they choose to go somewhere else, and don't realize the NY Giants are the preeminent landing spot for a coach, that shows me they are not the right fit. I'm intrigued by Munchak. Seems to me you get head coaching experience and an incredible O-Line coach all in one. Of course, our o-line is the problem, or the main problem.
Stafford has an inflated contract and has won nothing.
If Patricia goes to Detroit he may only have a two-three year window to make playoff runs. If Detroit cant make it to the playoffs the next few years I could see both him and Quinn getting fired quickly.
Dont underestimate the increasing lack of patience by the Ford family.
gonna be Shurmur or Wilks. I think both are fine options. I couldn't give two shits about the optics of passing on Wilks but then naming him. Get the right guy.
I prefer a defense first guy, but you need to score points to win football games too.
choose the Lions too. More talent, less pressure, more stability.
The Giants job is a shitty job at the moment.
Lions are one of the more unstable franchises in the league. The only stability theyve had is being consistently disappointing.
And as for pressure, the Ford family has indicated they expect a Super Bowl run in the next few years. Good luck to Patricia and Quinn on that while playing in a division with Rodgers and Mike Zimmers defense.
choose the Lions too. More talent, less pressure, more stability.
The Giants job is a shitty job at the moment.
Lions are one of the more unstable franchises in the league. The only stability theyve had is being consistently disappointing.
And as for pressure, the Ford family has indicated they expect a Super Bowl run in the next few years. Good luck to Patricia and Quinn on that while playing in a division with Rodgers and Mike Zimmers defense.
I don't disagree with any of that, but the Giants are one of the least stable franchises in the NFL right now. New GM, about to be on our 3rd HC in 4 years, QB on his last legs while also having to groom a new one most likely. We're a mess.
Most beats are saying McDaniels is clear favorite to Indy.
Couldn't agree more. Why would someone take this job over Detroit. They have a top 7-8 QB and our QB situation...well we haven't had a decent one for years. If Shurmer comes aboard we will see another Eli crying fit because he won't be on this team next year...GUARANTEED
RE: Most beats are saying McDaniels is clear favorite to Indy.
choose the Lions too. More talent, less pressure, more stability.
The Giants job is a shitty job at the moment.
Caldwell had winning seasons in 3 of 4 years and was fired. That's stability and no pressure? QB has a massive contract despite never winning a division title or a playoff game. Giants have more young talent than the record showed this year and a great opportunity to add to it via the draft. McAdoo ran this team into the ground.
.
Circling back to Wilks now is pathetic. Nothing against him but he was universally regarded as the odd man out after the initial round of interviews. Again Mara chose DG in haste without an extensive GM search in part to start the HC search earlier. And now, assuming they lose out on Shurmur, theyre going to be forced to settle on Wilks? Epic embarrassment.
choose the Lions too. More talent, less pressure, more stability.
The Giants job is a shitty job at the moment.
Caldwell had winning seasons in 3 of 4 years and was fired. That's stability and no pressure? QB has a massive contract despite never winning a division title or a playoff game. Giants have more young talent than the record showed this year and a great opportunity to add to it via the draft. McAdoo ran this team into the ground.
Patricia has a 12 years prior working relationship with Detroits GM. That can't be discounted.
Again, marrying into a "Lions family" and I use that term loosely because the Lions are such perennial losers that the fans don't even really back the team. Even when it's winning the sentiment is "who gives a sh#t they'll just screw it up somehow".
I talk football with a lot of people when I visit there: It's all Michigan/Michigan St.
So yes, while the Giants fans are angry at least people care about the team here. The Lions lost their fan base many, many years ago and aren't even taken seriously up there.
And to be clear - I don't think the fans will play into Patricia's decision 1%. (Nor should they.) Just making a comment after reading people bashing NY because the fans are volatile.
choose the Lions too. More talent, less pressure, more stability.
The Giants job is a shitty job at the moment.
Lions are one of the more unstable franchises in the league. The only stability theyve had is being consistently disappointing.
And as for pressure, the Ford family has indicated they expect a Super Bowl run in the next few years. Good luck to Patricia and Quinn on that while playing in a division with Rodgers and Mike Zimmers defense.
I don't disagree with any of that, but the Giants are one of the least stable franchises in the NFL right now. New GM, about to be on our 3rd HC in 4 years, QB on his last legs while also having to groom a new one most likely. We're a mess.
Where people see a mess, I see tremendous opportunity. Landscapes can easily be changed by those with the right vision, patience, touch.
McDaniels and Patricia may think they are making smart choices. They may both be terribly wrong.
By the way, both Colts fans and Lions fans feel their situations are a mess. I checked out some of their forums over the last week and many felt the Giants job would be the best! This is the chicken little mentality that sports fans have of thinking in a vacuum and looking in the mirror.
RE: RE: This was expected by nearly everyone except the giants beats
Tried to be adamant about it without sounding redundant but as I said Patricia to Detroit is as bad of a secret as Shanahan to San Fran was last year. This theyre down to three is completely false and now the beats will do there best to backpedal and spin this.
While the beats would need to back pedal to restore some credibility, its more on the Giants PR team to do the same. Either way they let that narrative run rampant all week without any attempts to to tell the right story.
I see what youre saying but I dont agree. The Giants F.O. are well seasoned. They dont lose sleep over the opinions of the sheep.
choose the Lions too. More talent, less pressure, more stability.
The Giants job is a shitty job at the moment.
Lions are one of the more unstable franchises in the league. The only stability theyve had is being consistently disappointing.
And as for pressure, the Ford family has indicated they expect a Super Bowl run in the next few years. Good luck to Patricia and Quinn on that while playing in a division with Rodgers and Mike Zimmers defense.
I don't disagree with any of that, but the Giants are one of the least stable franchises in the NFL right now. New GM, about to be on our 3rd HC in 4 years, QB on his last legs while also having to groom a new one most likely. We're a mess.
Where people see a mess, I see tremendous opportunity. Landscapes can easily be changed by those with the right vision, patience, touch.
McDaniels and Patricia may think they are making smart choices. They may both be terribly wrong.
By the way, both Colts fans and Lions fans feel their situations are a mess. I checked out some of their forums over the last week and many felt the Giants job would be the best! This is the chicken little mentality that sports fans have of thinking in a vacuum and looking in the mirror.
It's actually the exact opposite. It's me taking an objective look at the situation and realizing that the Lions are in a much better position to succeed than the Giants.
Will that always be the case? No. Will it even be the case to start next year? No. But as of right now you'd be crazy to say that the Giants are in a closer position to Win than the Lions.
choose the Lions too. More talent, less pressure, more stability.
The Giants job is a shitty job at the moment.
Caldwell had winning seasons in 3 of 4 years and was fired. That's stability and no pressure? QB has a massive contract despite never winning a division title or a playoff game. Giants have more young talent than the record showed this year and a great opportunity to add to it via the draft. McAdoo ran this team into the ground.
Patricia has a 12 years prior working relationship with Detroits GM. That can't be discounted.
They will both be fired together if they dont win and win quickly. The Lions just fired a coach after multiple winning seasons.
Couldn't agree more. Why would someone take this job over Detroit. They have a top 7-8 QB and our QB situation...well we haven't had a decent one for years. If Shurmer comes aboard we will see another Eli crying fit because he won't be on this team next year...GUARANTEED
so true brunswick,eli is a big negative for potential coaches.
something - in general - to people not wanting to move to the NJ/NYC area. It's not for everyone and quite frankly, Jersey sucks. Joe Philbin declined working here (at least officially) because he preferred the Indy/Midwest area.
But Patricia's from upstate NY and his family wouldn't even have to move unless they wanted to. And then they'd only have to move a few hours drive away. So I don't see that factoring in here.
of you guys are twisting yourselves into pretzels to defend your point of view. Whether you agree with it or not, whether you like it or not, the Giants have been rejected by Patricia in favor of the Lions. The Giants didn't say no to Patricia. It is also likely that McDaniels is doing the same by choosing Indy. You can spin this anyway you want to make you feel better, but it is what it is.
If he feels he can improve the deffense they have a top line QB signed for a while and are only a couple wins away from beimg in the playoffs as opposed to a rebuild project.
Stafford has an inflated contract and has won nothing.
I echo Bold Ruler's DAMMIT!
Uber, Stafford may have won nothing, but it's very arguable that Eli's wins are in the rearview. Lots here mocked Duggan's thesis, seemed pretty rational to me. And for those arguing Patricia was no more than BB's reflected glory, why wouldn't the Giants want someone who learned, absorbed, from the best?
DAMMIT!
of you guys are twisting yourselves into pretzels to defend your point of view. Whether you agree with it or not, whether you like it or not, the Giants have been rejected by Patricia in favor of the Lions. The Giants didn't say no to Patricia. It is also likely that McDaniels is doing the same by choosing Indy. You can spin this anyway you want to make you feel better, but it is what it is.
And if Shurmur chooses to go to a team in nfl purgatory (cards), the NYG will be rightfully mocked, ridiculed, and thoroughly embarrassed when they are forced to settle.
choose the Lions too. More talent, less pressure, more stability.
The Giants job is a shitty job at the moment.
Lions are one of the more unstable franchises in the league. The only stability theyve had is being consistently disappointing.
And as for pressure, the Ford family has indicated they expect a Super Bowl run in the next few years. Good luck to Patricia and Quinn on that while playing in a division with Rodgers and Mike Zimmers defense.
I don't disagree with any of that, but the Giants are one of the least stable franchises in the NFL right now. New GM, about to be on our 3rd HC in 4 years, QB on his last legs while also having to groom a new one most likely. We're a mess.
Where people see a mess, I see tremendous opportunity. Landscapes can easily be changed by those with the right vision, patience, touch.
McDaniels and Patricia may think they are making smart choices. They may both be terribly wrong.
By the way, both Colts fans and Lions fans feel their situations are a mess. I checked out some of their forums over the last week and many felt the Giants job would be the best! This is the chicken little mentality that sports fans have of thinking in a vacuum and looking in the mirror.
It's actually the exact opposite. It's me taking an objective look at the situation and realizing that the Lions are in a much better position to succeed than the Giants.
Will that always be the case? No. Will it even be the case to start next year? No. But as of right now you'd be crazy to say that the Giants are in a closer position to Win than the Lions.
Thats not what a coach is looking for all the time. Win now situations get coaches fired more quickly than not. Lions are not really that close. Their defense took a huge step back. Their run game is garbage. Their QB eats up a huge chunk of their cap.
There is a base to work with, but there is not a lot of flexibility or patience.
The Giants are a challenging situation but one with tremendous opportunity, some assets to work with, and a huge windfall if you can turn it around.
of you guys are twisting yourselves into pretzels to defend your point of view. Whether you agree with it or not, whether you like it or not, the Giants have been rejected by Patricia in favor of the Lions. The Giants didn't say no to Patricia. It is also likely that McDaniels is doing the same by choosing Indy. You can spin this anyway you want to make you feel better, but it is what it is.
Whats your point? You always love to shit on the Giants at every turn. Every year you do the same thing in free agency. The Giants are not a desirable destination.... You say it every season. You love to play the contrarian constantly.
It couldnt possibly be that Patricia chose the Lions because of his relationship with the GM, right? Or McDaniels loves the thought of having Andrew Luck in place, right? It just HAS to be that the Giants job sucks and nobody wants it. Cant possibly be any other motives for players/coaches decisions.
Eli's wins are absolutely in the rearview. But the new HC has a great opportunity here to draft his guy and develop him. If they draft a QB @ #2, he'll have as many division titles and playoff wins as Stafford, without the largest contract in the league.
Eli's wins are absolutely in the rearview. But the new HC has a great opportunity here to draft his guy and develop him. If they draft a QB @ #2, he'll have as many division titles and playoff wins as Stafford, without the largest contract in the league.
And if they don't like any of the QBs @2, they can likely trade it for multiple picks including an additional #1 to someone who does.
And our #2 pick this year is practically another 1st. Just look at the talent that sits out there end of round 1 every year. Great opportunity for any coach with vision to build his roster.
of you guys are twisting yourselves into pretzels to defend your point of view. Whether you agree with it or not, whether you like it or not, the Giants have been rejected by Patricia in favor of the Lions. The Giants didn't say no to Patricia. It is also likely that McDaniels is doing the same by choosing Indy. You can spin this anyway you want to make you feel better, but it is what it is.
And if Shurmur chooses to go to a team in nfl purgatory (cards), the NYG will be rightfully mocked, ridiculed, and thoroughly embarrassed when they are forced to settle.
You seem to be incredibly concerned with what other people think or say. Why do you give a shit? I appears that the only thing you care about is your friends mocking you. You really that sensitive?
of you guys are twisting yourselves into pretzels to defend your point of view. Whether you agree with it or not, whether you like it or not, the Giants have been rejected by Patricia in favor of the Lions. The Giants didn't say no to Patricia. It is also likely that McDaniels is doing the same by choosing Indy. You can spin this anyway you want to make you feel better, but it is what it is.
Yup, but I wont lose sleep over either one. We arent losing out on the next Lombardi or Landry. Both will be fired within four years time with no Super Bowl wins. Book it.
Yea, Its been Wilks and Shurmur all along. Patricia to Detroit was a forgone conclusion.
McDaniels is still uncertain. There is a lot of speculation around the Indy reports not enough fact. I was told (a few days ago, even posted it) to keep an eye on Tennessee. Theyre lurking. If they can get McDaniels theyll dump Mularkey.
of you guys are twisting yourselves into pretzels to defend your point of view. Whether you agree with it or not, whether you like it or not, the Giants have been rejected by Patricia in favor of the Lions. The Giants didn't say no to Patricia. It is also likely that McDaniels is doing the same by choosing Indy. You can spin this anyway you want to make you feel better, but it is what it is.
And if Shurmur chooses to go to a team in nfl purgatory (cards), the NYG will be rightfully mocked, ridiculed, and thoroughly embarrassed when they are forced to settle.
You seem to be incredibly concerned with what other people think or say. Why do you give a shit? I appears that the only thing you care about is your friends mocking you. You really that sensitive?
We have no freaking clue who is or was the favorite for the job, to start it was Schwartz, then it was Wilkes, then it was Patricia, no one freaking knows...
Of course Patricia chose Detroit, he has a working relationship with the gm..
And why should the giants be embarrassed if they hire wilkes? When did the giants say that he was out?
I like Vrabel, too. Great Buckeye. Excellent NFL player. But how the hell do you know that ? Have you sat in on his unit meetings or something ?
I dont know anything. Its just a gut feeling. Ive watched a bunch of Texans games. Just seems like his guys play for him
Have you ever had a gut feeling about something?
Vrabel is also a winner. Comes from the Patriot organization Good guy
Played the game right. Smart guy too
Relationships are huge in this business and Detroit had a big one here in Quinn, who obviously sold him hard. NYG had no connection to Patricia. That's a huge advantage for them.
BB's tree not always successful McD got canned before, Crennel seems better suited at DC, Hufnagel came here as OC and was a disaster.
Such lazy analysis...
I wanted Patricia but wont lose sleep over not getting him as theres pros to each of the candidates we interviewed. But this notion that Pats cooridinators are only good because of BB is laughable.
I like Vrabel, too. Great Buckeye. Excellent NFL player. But how the hell do you know that ? Have you sat in on his unit meetings or something ?
I dont know anything. Its just a gut feeling. Ive watched a bunch of Texans games. Just seems like his guys play for him
Have you ever had a gut feeling about something?
Vrabel is also a winner. Comes from the Patriot organization Good guy
Played the game right. Smart guy too
The adoration for Vrabel here is ridiculous. Review of Vrabel per their plugged in guys...
Quote:
The Texans defense plummeted from where we are accustomed to seeing them. Going back to 2012, the Texans have finished 4th, 18th, 6th, 8th, and 9th in defensive DVOA. This year they fell all the way to 23rd. They had a pass defense DVOA of 19.2% (25th) and a run defense DVOA of -9.9% (12th)
Additionally, Mike Vrabel struggled in his new defensive coordinator role. He started the year being too cute in trying to generate a pass rush when he had three players that can win blocks on their own. The team continued to play Cover Four while struggling to pass off receivers correctly, and the Texans lost to Seattle and New England because of it. Vrabel didnt scheme to his opponent well and did things like play man against the horizontal crossing route offense that the Jaguars utilize by getting their quick receivers running full speed in space. I was never all the way here for Vrabel being good at this immediately. Calling plays and game planning is much different than teaching linebackers about hand placement after a first step in a pass rush.
I think JM wants SP or PS so that he can retain Spags as DC...Not bad, but I would prefer DG's pick of Wilks/Defilippo...I have a feeling we will be set for the next 15 years!!!
I think as someone posted in another thread: none of these guys have a
Clearly they are, or in light of todays news, were waiting on Patricia, McDaniels, and Shurmur. Shurmur is the last domino in the game before they turn to their safety school candidate.
RE: I think Patricia's connection to Bob Quinn is the main reason
Relationships are huge in this business and Detroit had a big one here in Quinn, who obviously sold him hard. NYG had no connection to Patricia. That's a huge advantage for them.
That's what I've been saying as well. 12 years in NE together in fact.
Paul Schwartz (@NYPost_Schwartz)
1/14/18, 9:17 AM
As the New York Post has been reporting, Matt Patricia was one of THREE top candidates for the Giants. Now there are two, Pat Shurmur and Josh McDaniels.
DO NOT discount Shurmur.
Its really Shurmur or bust. Indy likely lands McDaniels.
choose the Lions too. More talent, less pressure, more stability.
The Giants job is a shitty job at the moment.
Lions are one of the more unstable franchises in the league. The only stability theyve had is being consistently disappointing.
And as for pressure, the Ford family has indicated they expect a Super Bowl run in the next few years. Good luck to Patricia and Quinn on that while playing in a division with Rodgers and Mike Zimmers defense.
I don't disagree with any of that, but the Giants are one of the least stable franchises in the NFL right now. New GM, about to be on our 3rd HC in 4 years, QB on his last legs while also having to groom a new one most likely. We're a mess.
Where people see a mess, I see tremendous opportunity. Landscapes can easily be changed by those with the right vision, patience, touch.
McDaniels and Patricia may think they are making smart choices. They may both be terribly wrong.
By the way, both Colts fans and Lions fans feel their situations are a mess. I checked out some of their forums over the last week and many felt the Giants job would be the best! This is the chicken little mentality that sports fans have of thinking in a vacuum and looking in the mirror.
It's actually the exact opposite. It's me taking an objective look at the situation and realizing that the Lions are in a much better position to succeed than the Giants.
Will that always be the case? No. Will it even be the case to start next year? No. But as of right now you'd be crazy to say that the Giants are in a closer position to Win than the Lions.
Very true, but the Giants are closer than the Falcons. Sorry s still a little bitter from last night.
DO NOT WANT SHURMUR!!!! Did anyone watch that Patriots offense and defense dominate last night? We missed on one Patriot go for the other (McDaniels). Imagine what Josh can do with Odell, Shepard and Engram. He has builidng blocks on D in Collins, Harrison, Jenkins. OV, JPP. and Tomlinson.
of you guys are twisting yourselves into pretzels to defend your point of view. Whether you agree with it or not, whether you like it or not, the Giants have been rejected by Patricia in favor of the Lions. The Giants didn't say no to Patricia. It is also likely that McDaniels is doing the same by choosing Indy. You can spin this anyway you want to make you feel better, but it is what it is.
I think BBI needs to understand that despite the Giants being a stable franchise with good patient owners and a great tradition the HC job is not as attractive as the open jobs with young successful QBs and in tact locker rooms. McDaniels and Patricia have been hot commodities as HC candidates for years and they have also been extremely calculated in their decision making process. Neither was going to put themselves in what they perceived to be a risky situation and the Giants job is more high risk than Detroit or Indy right now.
Detroit has a young franchise QB, good talent on D, an established offense, and a GM who has ties to the Pats. The Giants offense is an enigma as is the future of the qb position and the defense would rather fight itself than the other team. Plus as much as I like Gettleman, hes strong willed and is probably not open to sharing power on personnel with a HC. I completely get why Patricia prefers the Lions. I think its the wrong choice in the long run and I dont think the Lions will be as patient as the Giants, but I can see why this makes sense to Patricia.
I like Vrabel, too. Great Buckeye. Excellent NFL player. But how the hell do you know that ? Have you sat in on his unit meetings or something ?
I dont know anything. Its just a gut feeling. Ive watched a bunch of Texans games. Just seems like his guys play for him
Have you ever had a gut feeling about something?
Vrabel is also a winner. Comes from the Patriot organization Good guy
Played the game right. Smart guy too
The adoration for Vrabel here is ridiculous. Review of Vrabel per their plugged in guys...
Quote:
The Texans defense plummeted from where we are accustomed to seeing them. Going back to 2012, the Texans have finished 4th, 18th, 6th, 8th, and 9th in defensive DVOA. This year they fell all the way to 23rd. They had a pass defense DVOA of 19.2% (25th) and a run defense DVOA of -9.9% (12th)
Additionally, Mike Vrabel struggled in his new defensive coordinator role. He started the year being too cute in trying to generate a pass rush when he had three players that can win blocks on their own. The team continued to play Cover Four while struggling to pass off receivers correctly, and the Texans lost to Seattle and New England because of it. Vrabel didnt scheme to his opponent well and did things like play man against the horizontal crossing route offense that the Jaguars utilize by getting their quick receivers running full speed in space. I was never all the way here for Vrabel being good at this immediately. Calling plays and game planning is much different than teaching linebackers about hand placement after a first step in a pass rush.
Vrabel Lost his best two players on defense. Does that account for anything
Not to mention Texans lost their star QB. Which means his defense spends more time on the field
Vrabel is and will grow as a coach and I think he has the goods
Put themselves in this position with the Eli fiasco and all the lies concerning it, but the main point could still be that no one knows what will happen to Eli still at this point. When as a HC you cant bench a guy that does not give you much belief in your top management support. As Eric has said if you or someone else does not want to believe it those two Pats guys are very highly rated not just by the Giants but league wide.
Its not looking like the Giants are in a position of strength where HCs are not without better options and more stable organization to choose from at this point. This organization threw the GM and HC under the bus for making a decision that one player and the fans cried like spoiled kids about. Lets not kid ourselves either any HC could look at film just like our new GM not much to like about whats on film.
The point was not that there only good because of BB.
Again, the "love fest" for Patricia and McD is fueled to a large extent because they coach for BB. And, that coaching for BB is certainly not an indication they will be successful at next level.
And, as I stated in a few posts up from that, it is a puzzle trying to figure out who will be successful at the next level.
BB's tree not always successful McD got canned before, Crennel seems better suited at DC, Hufnagel came here as OC and was a disaster.
Such lazy analysis...
I wanted Patricia but wont lose sleep over not getting him as theres pros to each of the candidates we interviewed. But this notion that Pats cooridinators are only good because of BB is laughable.
Fair enough, but there's no evidence that they're good for any other reason, because they haven't been good at the NFL level when they're apart from BB.
A lot of you were confusing "the Giants favored Patricia"
As "Patricia was the favorite to sign with the Giants". The beats weren't wrong, "a few days ago Patricia was coming here" was never a reality, you assumed it.
McDaniels likes Luck and Indy. Shurmer may pick AZ because they have a better roster and he's more likely to bring to bring Keemun with him there. It's a very real possibility that the Giants will have to go plan B here.
of you guys are twisting yourselves into pretzels to defend your point of view. Whether you agree with it or not, whether you like it or not, the Giants have been rejected by Patricia in favor of the Lions. The Giants didn't say no to Patricia. It is also likely that McDaniels is doing the same by choosing Indy. You can spin this anyway you want to make you feel better, but it is what it is.
I think BBI needs to understand that despite the Giants being a stable franchise with good patient owners and a great tradition the HC job is not as attractive as the open jobs with young successful QBs and in tact locker rooms. McDaniels and Patricia have been hot commodities as HC candidates for years and they have also been extremely calculated in their decision making process. Neither was going to put themselves in what they perceived to be a risky situation and the Giants job is more high risk than Detroit or Indy right now.
Detroit has a young franchise QB, good talent on D, an established offense, and a GM who has ties to the Pats. The Giants offense is an enigma as is the future of the qb position and the defense would rather fight itself than the other team. Plus as much as I like Gettleman, hes strong willed and is probably not open to sharing power on personnel with a HC. I completely get why Patricia prefers the Lions. I think its the wrong choice in the long run and I dont think the Lions will be as patient as the Giants, but I can see why this makes sense to Patricia.
Eric is usually pessimistic about everything. Patricia could have been given an offer he couldnt refuse, whether thats monetary, control, or other future guarantees. There are things to like about the Detroit roster but you can argue the Giants have better pieces and vice versa until your blue in the face. The fact is he is going to a shitstain franchise which tells me theres more to it and just the QB.
Everyone thinks they know why a coach went somewhere. The only actual connection you can point to that matters is the GM, everything else is all speculation.
As "Patricia was the favorite to sign with the Giants". The beats weren't wrong, "a few days ago Patricia was coming here" was never a reality, you assumed it.
McDaniels likes Luck and Indy. Shurmer may pick AZ because they have a better roster and he's more likely to bring to bring Keemun with him there. It's a very real possibility that the Giants will have to go plan B here.
Eli's wins are absolutely in the rearview. But the new HC has a great opportunity here to draft his guy and develop him. If they draft a QB @ #2, he'll have as many division titles and playoff wins as Stafford, without the largest contract in the league.
FWIW, *Everybodys* wins, pretty much by definition, are in the rear view. Not sure that its a profound statement. Also, inarguable is that nobody knows what will come to pass.
BB's tree not always successful McD got canned before, Crennel seems better suited at DC, Hufnagel came here as OC and was a disaster.
Such lazy analysis...
I wanted Patricia but wont lose sleep over not getting him as theres pros to each of the candidates we interviewed. But this notion that Pats cooridinators are only good because of BB is laughable.
Fair enough, but there's no evidence that they're good for any other reason, because they haven't been good at the NFL level when they're apart from BB.
Its still shit logic. Patricia didnt come on a conveyor belt as the next guy in line to just parrot BB and be his drone. Hes actuall transformed a portion of how the Pats operate and has been running the defense for 6 years. Hes as qualified as anyone to get a HC gig. Its also quite possible in his older age that BB leans on his coordinators more - just speculation but its plausible.
how the hell do you know? Did someone from within the organization come out and say that Patricia is our guy?
Maybe the interview did not go well. Maybe the Lions were offering a better compensation plan. Maybe it would be more of a coaching challenge to get the Lions their first Superbowl ever. Maybe Patricia does not feel like he needs to worry about the QB position in Detroit vs NY.
MAYBE Detroit offered him a job and the Giants didn't. Holy shit imagine that ! How dare Patricia accept a position with a team that actually offered him the job.
RE: Its obvious Wilks isnt their first choice or hed be hired by now
Clearly they are, or in light of todays news, were waiting on Patricia, McDaniels, and Shurmur. Shurmur is the last domino in the game before they turn to their safety school candidate.
Not true at all because what is obvious is that Mara doesn't want egg in his face for picking an inexperienced coach after choosing BM two years ago and he really believes that experience matters...He also was going to get backlash if he chose a coach too soon. I think that Wilks is the pick and the Giants are doing their due diligence with the HC search.
As "Patricia was the favorite to sign with the Giants". The beats weren't wrong, "a few days ago Patricia was coming here" was never a reality, you assumed it.
McDaniels likes Luck and Indy. Shurmer may pick AZ because they have a better roster and he's more likely to bring to bring Keemun with him there. It's a very real possibility that the Giants will have to go plan B here.
It is plan b based on what?
If plan b is Wilks then ok. Its quite possible the Giants are equally happy with Patricia, McDaniels, Shurmur, and Wilks as potential head coaches. I know I am. They all have their pros and cons.
But intimating that it has anything to do with Eli is the pinnacle of transferrance of your own personal issues. So much specious reasoning going on here.
how the hell do you know? Did someone from within the organization come out and say that Patricia is our guy?
Maybe the interview did not go well. Maybe the Lions were offering a better compensation plan. Maybe it would be more of a coaching challenge to get the Lions their first Superbowl ever. Maybe Patricia does not feel like he needs to worry about the QB position in Detroit vs NY.
MAYBE Detroit offered him a job and the Giants didn't. Holy shit imagine that ! How dare Patricia accept a position with a team that actually offered him the job.
Um... just speculating based on what was reported in the media. That's all any of us can do, unless you care to share your inside information.
Yup, but I wont lose sleep over either one. We arent losing out on the next Lombardi or Landry. Both will be fired within four years time with no Super Bowl wins. Book it.
And we can book it that the next Giants HC won't be fired within 4 years?
Even if both are indeed fired within 4 years, they will merely have the same fate as 3 of the last 5 Giants head coaches did. So who are we to laugh at them? And that's not counting the interim Spag.
to be honest, patricia is digging his own grave if he chooses lions...
over the giants...not to be a homer but what makes the lions job so enticing?
They never had had a stable franchise, the have no offensive line, no running game. A decent overpaid QB...a couple OK WR's...and a meh defense.
Oh they also play in the division with arguably the two best teams in the NFC in the vikings and packers when rodgers is healthy. Patricia wont sniff the playoffs and be fired in 3 years.
Yes the giants are a rebuild but its still the "giants". We have a top pick and still big time defensive players and arguably the most talented skill position player in the NFL...unless its just about the former relationship he's had with the guys that was in the pats and now running the lions...it makes no sense to me
I'll bet the Giants front office isn't as upset by this as BBI.
No guarantee Patricia or McDaniels are the next BB without BB and Brady. We'll see. McDaniels first attempt wasn't good and Patricia has never done it. Obviously down to Shurmur and Wilks and a case could probably be made for either although Shurmur has the experience. I think we'll all have a better light on this tomorrow. Been reading all week that the Giants front office was very,very high on Patricia after the interview.
Sorry meant very,very high on Shurmur after the interview
of you guys are twisting yourselves into pretzels to defend your point of view. Whether you agree with it or not, whether you like it or not, the Giants have been rejected by Patricia in favor of the Lions. The Giants didn't say no to Patricia. It is also likely that McDaniels is doing the same by choosing Indy. You can spin this anyway you want to make you feel better, but it is what it is.
Whats your point? You always love to shit on the Giants at every turn. Every year you do the same thing in free agency. The Giants are not a desirable destination.... You say it every season. You love to play the contrarian constantly.
It couldnt possibly be that Patricia chose the Lions because of his relationship with the GM, right? Or McDaniels loves the thought of having Andrew Luck in place, right? It just HAS to be that the Giants job sucks and nobody wants it. Cant possibly be any other motives for players/coaches decisions.
Everything you wrote here about me is absolutely incorrect, but if it helps you to justify ignoring my input, so be it.
As "Patricia was the favorite to sign with the Giants". The beats weren't wrong, "a few days ago Patricia was coming here" was never a reality, you assumed it.
McDaniels likes Luck and Indy. Shurmer may pick AZ because they have a better roster and he's more likely to bring to bring Keemun with him there. It's a very real possibility that the Giants will have to go plan B here.
It is plan b based on what?
Based on what's been reported basically everywhere. I'm not really big on buying the cloak and dagger bullshit, enough people were reporting that the Giants were favoring Patricia for me to believe it was true. Enough people are reporting that McDaniels and Shurmer are also high on our list for me to buy that as well.
Personally, I like Wilks, so I'm perfectly cool with "settling" on him.
RE: to be honest, patricia is digging his own grave if he chooses lions...
over the giants...not to be a homer but what makes the lions job so enticing?
They never had had a stable franchise, the have no offensive line, no running game. A decent overpaid QB...a couple OK WR's...and a meh defense.
Oh they also play in the division with arguably the two best teams in the NFC in the vikings and packers when rodgers is healthy. Patricia wont sniff the playoffs and be fired in 3 years.
Yes the giants are a rebuild but its still the "giants". We have a top pick and still big time defensive players and arguably the most talented skill position player in the NFL...unless its just about the former relationship he's had with the guys that was in the pats and now running the lions...it makes no sense to me
of you guys are twisting yourselves into pretzels to defend your point of view. Whether you agree with it or not, whether you like it or not, the Giants have been rejected by Patricia in favor of the Lions. The Giants didn't say no to Patricia. It is also likely that McDaniels is doing the same by choosing Indy. You can spin this anyway you want to make you feel better, but it is what it is.
You might be right. But how can we know if there was actually an offer? HC jobs dont grow on trees. Some of these guys have to take a wink wink offer and not wait on the Giants old time ways of doing everything by the book, with integrity.
Any way, I think it might all work out, where theyll possibly be forced to allow the GM to hire his own guy. WILKS
RE: RE: RE: RE: Who said anything was a profound statement?
And if you had bothered reading my input in the other thread, I made the same arguments you did about the reasons why Patricia would be tempted to pick the Lions over the Giants.
that the NY media environment has to play into this as well....Patricia is very rarely heard from and, from what I can tell, he seems to be a grounded family man who may value a much more low profile day to day grind. While any NFL head coach is going to encounter heightened public scrutiny, the NY market is an entirely different animal in almost every aspect....just my opinion obviously but I think it makes sense. How much crap would an ill fitted suit or bad haircut receive elsewhere for example? And dont forget, his mentor may love the organization but, hes also just about THE most press adverse coach in the NFL and knows this market as well as anyone.
Patricia and McDaniels
Wilks and Shurmer were my choices from the start.
If Wilks was DG man from the start, Then Mara shouild go with his GM's choice.
Dont understand all the love for this guy Patricia. Does anyone in their right mind think Matt Patricia is the brains behind the Pats defense? We heard or read all the things youd expect to hear about any Belichick disciple, smart, works hard, yada, yada, yada. But hes only ever worked there at the Pats. Thats a red flag especially considering how nearly every single Belichick coach flames out when they leave the Pats. One cant underestimate the extraordinary circumstances at Foxbough, the right ownership, Hoodie, Ernie Adams, Brady and the perennial shithole teams in the AFC East. Every little thing is set up for success in NE. Everything.
Another thing about Patricia that rubs me the wrong way is his whole frat bro personna. The backwards hat, the sloppy appearance, the ridiculous beard, the clown tee shirt, these things all present a childish image. Hey, that probably works just fine in Foxborough. But does anyone think that sort of thing is what Eli Apple or LC or OBJ need at this juncture in their careers? I dont think so. Let the various Hoodie princes go where they may. Its just as likely theyll flame out like nearly - if not every - Belichick coach that has left the ideal situation created in NE.
Lets take the Rose colored glasses off. The Giants aren't a desirable destination for a top draw coach. Our GM has a rep as an asshole, we have a 37 year old QB that the HC will need permission to bench and we have malcontents on the roster. Also, losing will not be tolerated in NY. There's no grace period. And losing the first year may be beyond the HC's control. What if the Giants draft a total bust with the #2 ? Settling for leftovers is how they got stuck with McAdoo. We can do a lot worse than sticking with Spags. He knows the organization and he knows the personnel .
His coaching record was mixed with the Rams, but so was BB's with Cleveland. SS has probably learned from that. As a coordinator he has always been flexible and willing to go with what worked. As a coordinator he has been a winner for the Giants until this year. Thats should be more important to the Giants than his record with other teams.
Not all the beats said Patricia to NYG was certain..
Lets take the Rose colored glasses off. The Giants aren't a desirable destination for a top draw coach. [b]Our GM has a rep as an asshole[/], we have a 37 year old QB that the HC will need permission to bench and we have malcontents on the roster. Also, losing will not be tolerated in NY. There's no grace period. And losing the first year may be beyond the HC's control. What if the Giants draft a total bust with the #2 ? Settling for leftovers is how they got stuck with McAdoo. We can do a lot worse than sticking with Spags. He knows the organization and he knows the personnel .
His coaching record was mixed with the Rams, but so was BB's with Cleveland. SS has probably learned from that. As a coordinator he has always been flexible and willing to go with what worked. As a coordinator he has been a winner for the Giants until this year. Thats should be more important to the Giants than his record with other teams.
with Quinn's roots at Pats Central. Familiarity is always important.
No loss, no gain from my perspective. Patricia is a huge unknown. It's one thing to wear the DC head set for the Pats knowing one of the game's great defensive minds is always less than 10 yards away. It's another to have to be responsible for all aspects of the team and set and create the culture.
RE: Not all the beats said Patricia to NYG was certain..
some have said there is no clear favorite. Who knows.
This is correct. Two said Patricia was 1a. Others said he was one of three final candidates.
So the possibilities include:
(1) Patricia was 1a and simply chose Det over NYC.
(2) Patricia found out he wasn't 1a and he settled for DET.
(3) Giants hadn't decided and he didn't want to wait any longer.
#2 scenario works if you believe Giants have a deal done with Shurmur or McDaniels.
RE: Wow. That's embarrassing as hell for the Giants.
some have said there is no clear favorite. Who knows.
This is correct. Two said Patricia was 1a. Others said he was one of three final candidates.
So the possibilities include:
(1) Patricia was 1a and simply chose Det over NYC.
(2) Patricia found out he wasn't 1a and he settled for DET.
(3) Giants hadn't decided and he didn't want to wait any longer.
#2 scenario works if you believe Giants have a deal done with Shurmur or McDaniels.
My instincts tell me I doubt Mara has circumvented the rules and has a deal with either Shurmur or McDaniels. Hes likely content, for better or worse, waiting it out. Its likely gonna backfire badly, but thats been par for the course for this franchise the last calendar year.
RE: RE: This was expected by nearly everyone except the giants beats
Tried to be adamant about it without sounding redundant but as I said Patricia to Detroit is as bad of a secret as Shanahan to San Fran was last year. This theyre down to three is completely false and now the beats will do there best to backpedal and spin this.
While the beats would need to back pedal to restore some credibility, its more on the Giants PR team to do the same. Either way they let that narrative run rampant all week without any attempts to to tell the right story.
They don't have a "right story" to tell. Technically, none of these candidates can be hired yet. There's no actual way to refute the beats doing what amounts to glorified rumormongering. Is it really that complicated to understand that?
RE: RE: Not all the beats said Patricia to NYG was certain..
some have said there is no clear favorite. Who knows.
This is correct. Two said Patricia was 1a. Others said he was one of three final candidates.
So the possibilities include:
(1) Patricia was 1a and simply chose Det over NYC.
(2) Patricia found out he wasn't 1a and he settled for DET.
(3) Giants hadn't decided and he didn't want to wait any longer.
#2 scenario works if you believe Giants have a deal done with Shurmur or McDaniels.
Why couldn't Quinn have given Patricia a deadline?
The worst job a coach has in any professional sport is dealing with a beloved aging star that won championship(s) that doesn't realize he is declining and wants to play. Eli got the last the coach and GM fired with the way he played things. If you do not think team Eli did not know exactly what they were doing you are stupid. This may be the NYG but dealing with mess, now, after the shit show, with half fan base delusionally thinking Eli is still the man...Who the fuck would really want this job with other jobs available?
RE: RE: Wow. That's embarrassing as hell for the Giants.
Reese isnt here anymore. McAdoo isnt here anymore. Wake up.
Are you addressing me? If so, re-read my post. I said I doubt Mara has a deal with anyone and is probably content on waiting. If that indeed is his strategy, its likeky to backfire.
choose Detroit were spelled out here many times by several different posters. Most of the beats wrote about it too. Lot of folks chose not to listen. Too many people just can't get it thru their heads that there's nothing particularly special about the NYG or NYC. And smart guys like Patricia make their decisions on hard-headed realities not silly platitudes.
And now the same folks are going to use the same non-logic logic to assume Shurmur chooses us over Arizona. Maybe he will but maybe he won't.
choose Detroit were spelled out here many times by several different posters. Most of the beats wrote about it too. Lot of folks chose not to listen. Too many people just can't get it thru their heads that there's nothing particularly special about the NYG or NYC. And smart guys like Patricia make their decisions on hard-headed realities not silly platitudes.
And now the same folks are going to use the same non-logic logic to assume Shurmur chooses us over Arizona. Maybe he will but maybe he won't.
Pretty much. But someone can never choose another team over their beloved Giants. They said it'd never happen. Now, look.
choose Detroit were spelled out here many times by several different posters. Most of the beats wrote about it too. Lot of folks chose not to listen. Too many people just can't get it thru their heads that there's nothing particularly special about the NYG or NYC. And smart guys like Patricia make their decisions on hard-headed realities not silly platitudes.
And now the same folks are going to use the same non-logic logic to assume Shurmur chooses us over Arizona. Maybe he will but maybe he won't.
No way Shurmur chooses Arizona over the NYG. Its too damn hot.
I like Vrabel, too. Great Buckeye. Excellent NFL player. But how the hell do you know that ? Have you sat in on his unit meetings or something ?
I dont know anything. Its just a gut feeling. Ive watched a bunch of Texans games. Just seems like his guys play for him
Have you ever had a gut feeling about something?
Vrabel is also a winner. Comes from the Patriot organization Good guy
Played the game right. Smart guy too
BB's tree not always successful McD got canned before, Crennel seems better suited at DC, Hufnagel came here as OC and was a disaster.
Such lazy analysis...
I wanted Patricia but wont lose sleep over not getting him as theres pros to each of the candidates we interviewed. But this notion that Pats cooridinators are only good because of BB is laughable.
Fair enough, but there's no evidence that they're good for any other reason, because they haven't been good at the NFL level when they're apart from BB.
Its still shit logic. Patricia didnt come on a conveyor belt as the next guy in line to just parrot BB and be his drone. Hes actuall transformed a portion of how the Pats operate and has been running the defense for 6 years. Hes as qualified as anyone to get a HC gig. Its also quite possible in his older age that BB leans on his coordinators more - just speculation but its plausible.
In any case, it is what it is at this point.
Dismissing a historical trend as "shit logic" is the very definition of "shit logic."
BB's tree not always successful McD got canned before, Crennel seems better suited at DC, Hufnagel came here as OC and was a disaster.
Such lazy analysis...
I wanted Patricia but wont lose sleep over not getting him as theres pros to each of the candidates we interviewed. But this notion that Pats cooridinators are only good because of BB is laughable.
Fair enough, but there's no evidence that they're good for any other reason, because they haven't been good at the NFL level when they're apart from BB.
Its still shit logic. Patricia didnt come on a conveyor belt as the next guy in line to just parrot BB and be his drone. Hes actuall transformed a portion of how the Pats operate and has been running the defense for 6 years. Hes as qualified as anyone to get a HC gig. Its also quite possible in his older age that BB leans on his coordinators more - just speculation but its plausible.
In any case, it is what it is at this point.
Dismissing a historical trend as "shit logic" is the very definition of "shit logic."
You can associate it but not all these candidates are the same nor had the same which is why its shit logic to solely point to it as a reason it wont work.
Mangini was a coordinator for 1 year with the Pats an hen went to 2 shit franchises in NYJ and Cleveland. Crennel, 4 years as SC then went to the Browns.
McDaniels is the only guy you can quote and Id chalk it up to him being too young at 33/34 with too much bravado and it backfired.
I guess the point I was trying to make, perhaps just thinking out loud, lot of uncertainty with this huge decision, people don't like uncertainty so the Coordinators from BB may help reduce or ease that uncertainty.
Put another way - If you took defensive stats of Pats under Patricia and placed them under the name of any other DC in the league - would we be clamoring as loudly for them?
Art Stapleton (@art_stapleton)
1/14/18, 9:14 AM
Which is why the Giants were extremely hesitant to declare Patricia as the favorite. Said that all along.
Now ESPN says he will choose the Lions. NYG were prepared for this, but it's a blow
Honestly I had a bad feeling about both Patricia and Wilks for one reason. There are not a lot of good offensive coaches left on the market for them to fill their staffs out with, and I am not confident in them to handle the offensive side all by themselves. On the defensive side, I feel like there are more decent coaching candidates left. Worst case, we can bring in John Fox as the DC, and Spags can coach the Linebackers, etc. We can build a decent defensive staff for an offensive coach such as Shurmur or McDaniels. As of now, McDaniels is my slight favorite. But Shurmur has a good resume as well.
Giants just may be left at the alter here. McDaniels seems intent on Indy so that leaves Shurmur. And Arizona may be the front runner there.
Hello, Mr. Wilks? Hey man, that stuff about you not being a candidate? Hey, we were just kidding!
Would be a huge blow to the franchise and how theyre perceived throughout the league. Glad Mara was adamant in hiring Gettleman so quickly in part to get a leg up on the HC search.
So you're killing them for firing Reese and hiring gettleman swiftly?
You left out a big reason maybe the biggest. Since 2011 one of the Owners is the SR VP of Player Evaluation. He can never be fired, he can never be pushed aside in a power play. He's an OWNER. If you're a prospective coach and you look at the Giants player evaluation the past 5 to 6 years you want to come work for that guy?
Maybe this will motivate the Giants to make a decision
McDaniels is my 2nd choice- because of how creative he is offensively and seems be a strong play caller.
Not a Shurmur fan would take Wilks over him.
I get thinking things through but I feel like there is no sense of urgency.
Make your decision and go for it.
Maybe it is happening behind the scenes but it is obviously not apparent.
of you guys are twisting yourselves into pretzels to defend your point of view. Whether you agree with it or not, whether you like it or not, the Giants have been rejected by Patricia in favor of the Lions. The Giants didn't say no to Patricia. It is also likely that McDaniels is doing the same by choosing Indy. You can spin this anyway you want to make you feel better, but it is what it is.
It is what it is? We don't even know what IT is. Spin what? How do you know the Giants offered the gig to Patricia? Because peter king feels like they did?
Doesn't matter anyway. Giants are just waiting on belichick.
The worst job a coach has in any professional sport is dealing with a beloved aging star that won championship(s) that doesn't realize he is declining and wants to play. Eli got the last the coach and GM fired with the way he played things. If you do not think team Eli did not know exactly what they were doing you are stupid. This may be the NYG but dealing with mess, now, after the shit show, with half fan base delusionally thinking Eli is still the man...Who the fuck would really want this job with other jobs available?
It may be the worst job, but its a job that any coach/manager must be able to do in any sport. If at some point last year, the Giants had quietly brought in Webb to start the second half of some game, do you think there would have been the shitstorm we saw ? Instead MacAdoo publicly throws Eli under the bus and announces that Gino fucking Smith is the starter and that he "gives us the best chance to win". By doing so they have poisoned the well for next year's HC. They know that they are stuck with Eli to start the season. Even if Eli is benched at some point and, God Forbid the next guy struggles, then the new HC is on his way out the door.
Which brings me back to my last post: The Giants HC position is not a desirable one right now. Their best course of action is to keep Spags rather than to gamble on some retread. They can always fire Spags next year.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The love fest for McD and Patricia
BB's tree not always successful McD got canned before, Crennel seems better suited at DC, Hufnagel came here as OC and was a disaster.
Such lazy analysis...
I wanted Patricia but wont lose sleep over not getting him as theres pros to each of the candidates we interviewed. But this notion that Pats cooridinators are only good because of BB is laughable.
Fair enough, but there's no evidence that they're good for any other reason, because they haven't been good at the NFL level when they're apart from BB.
Its still shit logic. Patricia didnt come on a conveyor belt as the next guy in line to just parrot BB and be his drone. Hes actuall transformed a portion of how the Pats operate and has been running the defense for 6 years. Hes as qualified as anyone to get a HC gig. Its also quite possible in his older age that BB leans on his coordinators more - just speculation but its plausible.
In any case, it is what it is at this point.
Dismissing a historical trend as "shit logic" is the very definition of "shit logic."
You can associate it but not all these candidates are the same nor had the same which is why its shit logic to solely point to it as a reason it wont work.
Mangini was a coordinator for 1 year with the Pats an hen went to 2 shit franchises in NYJ and Cleveland. Crennel, 4 years as SC then went to the Browns.
McDaniels is the only guy you can quote and Id chalk it up to him being too young at 33/34 with too much bravado and it backfired.
But go on, tell me more.
You also argued at length about how a control group isn't necessary for qualified data, so you'll have to forgive me if I don't think your definition of "logic" passes muster.
to prove themselves anymore. They need to step out at the right time into a place they feel can work for them. You have to see a roster you can work with and a gm thats fits your plan.
Maybe havimg 35 mil in under performing DE's that dont fit his scheme or a a secondary full of me first players isnt something he wants to ruin his head coaching career.
Even McVay will have a hard time next year because he got so much more out of his team this year and his divison had a down year. Will be hard preased to continue sucess.
The worst job a coach has in any professional sport is dealing with a beloved aging star that won championship(s) that doesn't realize he is declining and wants to play. Eli got the last the coach and GM fired with the way he played things. If you do not think team Eli did not know exactly what they were doing you are stupid. This may be the NYG but dealing with mess, now, after the shit show, with half fan base delusionally thinking Eli is still the man...Who the fuck would really want this job with other jobs available?
It may be the worst job, but its a job that any coach/manager must be able to do in any sport. If at some point last year, the Giants had quietly brought in Webb to start the second half of some game, do you think there would have been the shitstorm we saw ? Instead MacAdoo publicly throws Eli under the bus and announces that Gino fucking Smith is the starter and that he "gives us the best chance to win". By doing so they have poisoned the well for next year's HC. They know that they are stuck with Eli to start the season. Even if Eli is benched at some point and, God Forbid the next guy struggles, then the new HC is on his way out the door.
Which brings me back to my last post: The Giants HC position is not a desirable one right now. Their best course of action is to keep Spags rather than to gamble on some retread. They can always fire Spags next year.
Waste a year on a hack who has already failed on multiple occasions. And this makes sense to you.
you do whatever you want. Its the NFL. Mangini and Crennel failed over a decade ago, thats a lifetime. They failed with 2 absolutely miserable franchises. McDaniels has some success but took on too much and failed at a very young ago.
If thats the definition of everyone under BB fails then I dont know what to tell you.
Shurmur is good with offense and good with quarterbacks. Thats all anyone ever says when talking about him. Theres a good amount of guys in the NFL who are good offensive coordinators and good with quarterbacks. Is this guy HC material? He doesnt inspire much confidence to me when he speaks - just seems like a sleepy personality.
Im sure hes smart and good with offense. We need a HC, however, that is going to be a leader of men for this franchise for the next 8+ seasons. Is Pat Shurmur really this guy? I dont think he is, but I hope to hell im wrong.
RE: LaCanfora seems to be off on a lot of this stuff but...
Shurmur is good with offense and good with quarterbacks. Thats all anyone ever says when talking about him. Theres a good amount of guys in the NFL who are good offensive coordinators and good with quarterbacks. Is this guy HC material? He doesnt inspire much confidence to me when he speaks - just seems like a sleepy personality.
Im sure hes smart and good with offense. We need a HC, however, that is going to be a leader of men for this franchise for the next 8+ seasons. Is Pat Shurmur really this guy? I dont think he is, but I hope to hell im wrong.
Well if it turns out he isn't a leader of men he'll definitely make our future QB a well coached leader of our team lol.
Shurmur is good with offense and good with quarterbacks. Thats all anyone ever says when talking about him. Theres a good amount of guys in the NFL who are good offensive coordinators and good with quarterbacks. Is this guy HC material? He doesnt inspire much confidence to me when he speaks - just seems like a sleepy personality.
Im sure hes smart and good with offense. We need a HC, however, that is going to be a leader of men for this franchise for the next 8+ seasons. Is Pat Shurmur really this guy? I dont think he is, but I hope to hell im wrong.
Shurmur from reports I have read is all about developing personal relationships with his players. TRULY cares about them and players respond to that bond by playing for him. He isnt a vocal motivator fur sur
you do whatever you want. Its the NFL. Mangini and Crennel failed over a decade ago, thats a lifetime. They failed with 2 absolutely miserable franchises. McDaniels has some success but took on too much and failed at a very young ago.
If thats the definition of everyone under BB fails then I dont know what to tell you.
How many of Belichick's former assistants, including position coaches, even have a record above .500 with another team in the NFL? I'm not even limiting that to coaches that go on to become HCs - any assistants at all that move on from New England.
If you're unwilling to see a trend when it's staring you in the face, I don't know what to tell you.
the Giants beat guys have been absolutely brutal during all of this. Someone mentioned the Raanan thing during the draft where he listed 15 players and not Engram. This feels similar.
you do whatever you want. Its the NFL. Mangini and Crennel failed over a decade ago, thats a lifetime. They failed with 2 absolutely miserable franchises. McDaniels has some success but took on too much and failed at a very young ago.
If thats the definition of everyone under BB fails then I dont know what to tell you.
How many of Belichick's former assistants, including position coaches, even have a record above .500 with another team in the NFL? I'm not even limiting that to coaches that go on to become HCs - any assistants at all that move on from New England.
If you're unwilling to see a trend when it's staring you in the face, I don't know what to tell you.
Bill O'Brien has done very good work in Houston. His carerr record would easily be over 500 if Watson didn't get hurt this year.
the Giants beat guys have been absolutely brutal during all of this. Someone mentioned the Raanan thing during the draft where he listed 15 players and not Engram. This feels similar.
Agree. And in recent years they've been pretty bad. Not just this situation.
BBI doesn't agree on much. But if there's one thing I *think* we can all agree on, is that we all miss Garafolo.
you say hard pass yet plenty of great head coaches in this league were only coordinators for a short time before hired.
You would have missed out on a lot of great coaches if you always had this line of thinking. Coordinator experience does not guarantee success as a head coach. And no, it doesnt mean you have a better chance at succeeding either. It never has and it never will - its a myth.
Romeo Crennel fielded 3 top ten defenses in houston
But at least he's competent. There's been a significant level of incompetence around the Giants for some time now. At least he'll steady things. Can you win a Super Bowl with him as HC? I don't know, but if you asked me to predict that, I'd predict no to be honest about it.
good point - Garafolo has been pretty on the money with the Giants this offseason - he didnt make any definitive statements and always said they are still deliberating, etc. He was right.
you say hard pass yet plenty of great head coaches in this league were only coordinators for a short time before hired.
You would have missed out on a lot of great coaches if you always had this line of thinking. Coordinator experience does not guarantee success as a head coach. And no, it doesnt mean you have a better chance at succeeding either. It never has and it never will - its a myth.
This is going to be a very important hire in Giants history. I think it'd be extremely risky to go with another short-tenured coordinator after the McAdoo fiasco. Some stability is in order, IMO.
the Giants beat guys have been absolutely brutal during all of this. Someone mentioned the Raanan thing during the draft where he listed 15 players and not Engram. This feels similar.
I love Gary Myers going with the flavor of the day coach. McDaniels>Wilks>Belicheck>Patricia. Guy has as much "inside" as posters here.
the Giants beat guys have been absolutely brutal during all of this. Someone mentioned the Raanan thing during the draft where he listed 15 players and not Engram. This feels similar.
I love Gary Myers going with the flavor of the day coach. McDaniels>Wilks>Belicheck>Patricia. Guy has as much "inside" as posters here.
the Giants beat guys have been absolutely brutal during all of this. Someone mentioned the Raanan thing during the draft where he listed 15 players and not Engram. This feels similar.
I love Gary Myers going with the flavor of the day coach. McDaniels>Wilks>Belicheck>Patricia. Guy has as much "inside" as posters here.
Something out there the New Orleans Saints,as I expect them to win however good chance they lose.... Sean Payton might he be in the plans possibly as the secret guy or does he stay there and is there somebody on that staff that we might be interested in?
Waste a year on a hack who has already failed on multiple occasions. And this makes sense to you.
Lets look at that record. In 2008 he inherits a bad defense that starts the year giving up something like 70 points in their first two games. By the end of the year the defense is the best in the NFL with a super bowl ring. In 2009 they again have a playoff caliber defense. Then its off to an HC gig with the worst team in the NFL, the Rams. By his second year they were 7-9, then it all collapsed the third year because they couldn't score. Anybody want to guess who the OC was ? Josh McDaniels. He then takes a DC gig at NO that doesn't go well. Can anybody name a good DC from NO. Then he comes back here. As soon as we got some decent players we once again have a playoff caliber defense, despite having the worst offense in the NFL. I can't say for sure what happened this year, but having an HC that alienated and humiliated his players didn't help.
Something out there the New Orleans Saints,as I expect them to win however good chance they lose.... Sean Payton might he be in the plans possibly as the secret guy or does he stay there and is there somebody on that staff that we might be interested in?
The story before has been that Payton would come here, but the team isn't warm on him allegedly because of personality or off-field things that are unclear.
Jason La Canfora
Verified account @JasonLaCanfora
2h2 hours ago
If the Vikes lose tonight the NYG and Cards will pounce on Shurmur. He'll be hired by Monday. I'd give the advantage to NYG in that scenario
And Vacchiano says itappears that Shurmur would prefer Arizona. Based on what, I have no idea.
The only reason, I can see that is its because he could for sure take a QB like Keenam with him there. Other than that, theyre brutal as far as offensive talent.
this was leaked to Schefter and that it's a bargaining ploy?
Had not. That sounds incredibly crafty of Mara, not sure thats our style😋
Emil - leaked by someone in the Patricia camp
Ahh, gotcha gidie I think that is possible but not convinced its likely. Im very intrigued by what hitdog might know...seems he might have a take worth sharing.
Would not surprise me if the Giants have actually already settled on a candidate and are in negotiations.
Is this ,what does Bellichick do if they win the SB lose three assistants and possibly Brady to retirement,I come up with 2 conclusions B.B. retires.....or
He comes to coach the Giants I think hes in play and I think Sean Payton is in play as well as The others also just my opinion
So fair to say you think McDaniels is still available. Giants are very interested but if they get word that hes on to colts they will move on to Shurmur
you do whatever you want. Its the NFL. Mangini and Crennel failed over a decade ago, thats a lifetime. They failed with 2 absolutely miserable franchises. McDaniels has some success but took on too much and failed at a very young ago.
If thats the definition of everyone under BB fails then I dont know what to tell you.
How many of Belichick's former assistants, including position coaches, even have a record above .500 with another team in the NFL? I'm not even limiting that to coaches that go on to become HCs - any assistants at all that move on from New England.
If you're unwilling to see a trend when it's staring you in the face, I don't know what to tell you.
Bill O'Brien has done very good work in Houston. His carerr record would easily be over 500 if Watson didn't get hurt this year.
But it's not. And that's an incredibly small sample size. Besides, they were 3-4 when Watson got hurt. As a rookie QB, no matter how impressive his play was, there's no guarantee how he would have performed as the league continued to compile tape on him.
The facts are what they are. If O'Brien is the high-water mark of that particular coaching tree, that's not the best place to go picking your next coach. Could it be a coincidence? Absolutely. But in the face of a trend of evidence to the contrary, do you really want to bet on picking the exception?
The guy that I think fits best with Gettleman is Shurmur. Gettleman has a strong personality and is "talketive". Shurmur is a quieter leader and has the experience they are looking for. Patricia would be a good fit too but if he doesn't want to be here good riddance.
you do whatever you want. Its the NFL. Mangini and Crennel failed over a decade ago, thats a lifetime. They failed with 2 absolutely miserable franchises. McDaniels has some success but took on too much and failed at a very young ago.
If thats the definition of everyone under BB fails then I dont know what to tell you.
How many of Belichick's former assistants, including position coaches, even have a record above .500 with another team in the NFL? I'm not even limiting that to coaches that go on to become HCs - any assistants at all that move on from New England.
If you're unwilling to see a trend when it's staring you in the face, I don't know what to tell you.
Bill O'Brien has done very good work in Houston. His carerr record would easily be over 500 if Watson didn't get hurt this year.
But it's not. And that's an incredibly small sample size. Besides, they were 3-4 when Watson got hurt. As a rookie QB, no matter how impressive his play was, there's no guarantee how he would have performed as the league continued to compile tape on him.
The facts are what they are. If O'Brien is the high-water mark of that particular coaching tree, that's not the best place to go picking your next coach. Could it be a coincidence? Absolutely. But in the face of a trend of evidence to the contrary, do you really want to bet on picking the exception?
You can play that game with anyone. Theres a reason why coaching turnover is so high in the NFL at every level. Whats next, critiquing BBs water boys?
you do whatever you want. Its the NFL. Mangini and Crennel failed over a decade ago, thats a lifetime. They failed with 2 absolutely miserable franchises. McDaniels has some success but took on too much and failed at a very young ago.
If thats the definition of everyone under BB fails then I dont know what to tell you.
How many of Belichick's former assistants, including position coaches, even have a record above .500 with another team in the NFL? I'm not even limiting that to coaches that go on to become HCs - any assistants at all that move on from New England.
If you're unwilling to see a trend when it's staring you in the face, I don't know what to tell you.
Bill O'Brien has done very good work in Houston. His carerr record would easily be over 500 if Watson didn't get hurt this year.
But it's not. And that's an incredibly small sample size. Besides, they were 3-4 when Watson got hurt. As a rookie QB, no matter how impressive his play was, there's no guarantee how he would have performed as the league continued to compile tape on him.
The facts are what they are. If O'Brien is the high-water mark of that particular coaching tree, that's not the best place to go picking your next coach. Could it be a coincidence? Absolutely. But in the face of a trend of evidence to the contrary, do you really want to bet on picking the exception?
You can play that game with anyone. Theres a reason why coaching turnover is so high in the NFL at every level. Whats next, critiquing BBs water boys?
Ok, have at it. Show me another coaching tree that has borne less fruit than Belichick's, and tell me which candidate from that tree you'd like to hire.
coaching trees do nothing for me. The NFL is complex and always changing. I hope our GM makes this hire based on a plethora of other factors and not which 70+ year old coach they worked unde.
He played C at Mich State. Maybe the overperformance of the Vikes OL this season is partly Shurmurs doing? This qualification is something we sure could use.
When he was the Rams OC in 2010,, Sam Bradford set the record for most throws without an INT for a rookie and was the NFL offensive rookie of the year.
Shurmur has 4 children and his son starts at QB for Vandy.
He has a very good resume. I see him as a very safe hire with a lot of potential.
that all of these leaks, rumors and speculative stories over the past week all have their genesis from the candidates' agents. Just driving up the price while they can.
BB to Giants! Pats prefer McDaniel over MP. MP to Lions. Shurmer is fallback option for Giants.
This is an update to what I said a couple days ago:
Belichick may return.
He is still trying to mend the fences in NE and is focused on the playoffs. Secrecy in NE is absolute - as it was when Parcells left. If BB comes to the Giants MP will coach the Pats. Otherwise, if BB stays MP will coach the Giants. Hard to give odds at this point. McDaniel will go elsewhere.
BB decision factors
Relationship with Kraft is worse than it was
Relationship with Brady is worse than it was
Brady is aging with no heir apparent
Would have to break in two new coordinators in 2018
May lose other coaches as well to Patricia and McDaniel
Has lost some key lieutenants in the front office
Giants job is open THIS year
Better to leave one year too early than one year too late
BB to Giants! Pats prefer McDaniel over MP. MP to Lions. Shurmer is fallback option for Giants.
This is an update to what I said a couple days ago:
Belichick may return.
He is still trying to mend the fences in NE and is focused on the playoffs. Secrecy in NE is absolute - as it was when Parcells left. If BB comes to the Giants MP will coach the Pats. Otherwise, if BB stays MP will coach the Giants. Hard to give odds at this point. McDaniel will go elsewhere.
BB decision factors
Relationship with Kraft is worse than it was
Relationship with Brady is worse than it was
Brady is aging with no heir apparent
Would have to break in two new coordinators in 2018
May lose other coaches as well to Patricia and McDaniel
Has lost some key lieutenants in the front office
Giants job is open THIS year
Better to leave one year too early than one year too late
Is that you Gary Myers? lol
If Patricia is put off by the current Giants situation, HE'S the pussy
BB to Giants! Pats prefer McDaniel over MP. MP to Lions. Shurmer is fallback option for Giants.
This is an update to what I said a couple days ago:
Belichick may return.
He is still trying to mend the fences in NE and is focused on the playoffs. Secrecy in NE is absolute - as it was when Parcells left. If BB comes to the Giants MP will coach the Pats. Otherwise, if BB stays MP will coach the Giants. Hard to give odds at this point. McDaniel will go elsewhere.
BB decision factors
Relationship with Kraft is worse than it was
Relationship with Brady is worse than it was
Brady is aging with no heir apparent
Would have to break in two new coordinators in 2018
May lose other coaches as well to Patricia and McDaniel
Has lost some key lieutenants in the front office
Giants job is open THIS year
Better to leave one year too early than one year too late
Is that you Gary Myers? lol
LOL Busted!!!! I know you all will not believe it. Just remember that you heard it here first.
BB to Giants! Pats prefer McDaniel over MP. MP to Lions. Shurmer is fallback option for Giants.
This is an update to what I said a couple days ago:
Belichick may return.
He is still trying to mend the fences in NE and is focused on the playoffs. Secrecy in NE is absolute - as it was when Parcells left. If BB comes to the Giants MP will coach the Pats. Otherwise, if BB stays MP will coach the Giants. Hard to give odds at this point. McDaniel will go elsewhere.
BB decision factors
Relationship with Kraft is worse than it was
Relationship with Brady is worse than it was
Brady is aging with no heir apparent
Would have to break in two new coordinators in 2018
May lose other coaches as well to Patricia and McDaniel
Has lost some key lieutenants in the front office
Giants job is open THIS year
Better to leave one year too early than one year too late
Is that you Gary Myers? lol
LOL Busted!!!! I know you all will not believe it. Just remember that you heard it here first.
OK, you'll win the BBI scoop of the year award. LOL
BB to Giants! Pats prefer McDaniel over MP. MP to Lions. Shurmer is fallback option for Giants.
This is an update to what I said a couple days ago:
Belichick may return.
He is still trying to mend the fences in NE and is focused on the playoffs. Secrecy in NE is absolute - as it was when Parcells left. If BB comes to the Giants MP will coach the Pats. Otherwise, if BB stays MP will coach the Giants. Hard to give odds at this point. McDaniel will go elsewhere.
BB decision factors
Relationship with Kraft is worse than it was
Relationship with Brady is worse than it was
Brady is aging with no heir apparent
Would have to break in two new coordinators in 2018
May lose other coaches as well to Patricia and McDaniel
Has lost some key lieutenants in the front office
Giants job is open THIS year
Better to leave one year too early than one year too late
This sounds bizarre.
In order for MP to coach the Pats this means there has to be some kind of conspiracy between MP and BB for MP to wait to do what BB does. Blows the idea of secrecy out of the water.
On the Giants side:
Eli is aging with no heir apparent
BB would have to break in all new coordinators and coaches in NY.
BB has no lieutenants in NY front office.
BB already has complete control in New England.
BB to Giants! Pats prefer McDaniel over MP. MP to Lions. Shurmer is fallback option for Giants.
This is an update to what I said a couple days ago:
Belichick may return.
He is still trying to mend the fences in NE and is focused on the playoffs. Secrecy in NE is absolute - as it was when Parcells left. If BB comes to the Giants MP will coach the Pats. Otherwise, if BB stays MP will coach the Giants. Hard to give odds at this point. McDaniel will go elsewhere.
BB decision factors
Relationship with Kraft is worse than it was
Relationship with Brady is worse than it was
Brady is aging with no heir apparent
Would have to break in two new coordinators in 2018
May lose other coaches as well to Patricia and McDaniel
Has lost some key lieutenants in the front office
Giants job is open THIS year
Better to leave one year too early than one year too late
This sounds bizarre.
In order for MP to coach the Pats this means there has to be some kind of conspiracy between MP and BB for MP to wait to do what BB does. Blows the idea of secrecy out of the water.
On the Giants side:
Eli is aging with no heir apparent
BB would have to break in all new coordinators and coaches in NY.
BB has no lieutenants in NY front office.
BB already has complete control in New England.
Cant get into details. Pats are prepared with a plan B. (Originally thought to be MP actually is JM).
To your points: The Giants situation is not better than the Pats. However, it would represent a change and a chance to start over. Best landing spot if he moves on from Pats.
Some pieces to work with
BB likes Mara and Gettleman
Some good players on the roster
The #2 pick in the draft
BB to Giants! Pats prefer McDaniel over MP. MP to Lions. Shurmer is fallback option for Giants.
This is an update to what I said a couple days ago:
Belichick may return.
He is still trying to mend the fences in NE and is focused on the playoffs. Secrecy in NE is absolute - as it was when Parcells left. If BB comes to the Giants MP will coach the Pats. Otherwise, if BB stays MP will coach the Giants. Hard to give odds at this point. McDaniel will go elsewhere.
BB decision factors
Relationship with Kraft is worse than it was
Relationship with Brady is worse than it was
Brady is aging with no heir apparent
Would have to break in two new coordinators in 2018
May lose other coaches as well to Patricia and McDaniel
Has lost some key lieutenants in the front office
Giants job is open THIS year
Better to leave one year too early than one year too late
This sounds bizarre.
In order for MP to coach the Pats this means there has to be some kind of conspiracy between MP and BB for MP to wait to do what BB does. Blows the idea of secrecy out of the water.
On the Giants side:
Eli is aging with no heir apparent
BB would have to break in all new coordinators and coaches in NY.
BB has no lieutenants in NY front office.
BB already has complete control in New England.
Cant get into details. Pats are prepared with a plan B. (Originally thought to be MP actually is JM).
To your points: The Giants situation is not better than the Pats. However, it would represent a change and a chance to start over. Best landing spot if he moves on from Pats.
Some pieces to work with
BB likes Mara and Gettleman
Some good players on the roster
The #2 pick in the draft
Not to sound rude, but are you considered an "asshat"? Secondly, how confident are you in this prediction?
i grew up on long island and have lived in a dozen other states. let me tell you that many people have 0 desire to live anywhere near NYC congestion that is a total pain in the ass and also dangerous as in auto accidents. you couldn't pay them enough!
on the flip side, some love the limelight of NYC and would sprint here!
if you don't think this is a factor, keep putting your head in the sand. the giants will either be a magnet or a repellent.
now on the football end, you would think working for the mara's and tisch's would be a great situation, and it is. but the media makes it the absolute worst place to coach and just grinds on you, especially if you aren't from the area.
as far as NE coaches, i bet they would love to stick it to the giants since losing to them twice in the super bowl, otherwise they would be a super dynasty. yeah, there easily could be something personal here.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Loooking more likely BB to Giants!!!!
BB to Giants! Pats prefer McDaniel over MP. MP to Lions. Shurmer is fallback option for Giants.
This is an update to what I said a couple days ago:
Belichick may return.
He is still trying to mend the fences in NE and is focused on the playoffs. Secrecy in NE is absolute - as it was when Parcells left. If BB comes to the Giants MP will coach the Pats. Otherwise, if BB stays MP will coach the Giants. Hard to give odds at this point. McDaniel will go elsewhere.
BB decision factors
Relationship with Kraft is worse than it was
Relationship with Brady is worse than it was
Brady is aging with no heir apparent
Would have to break in two new coordinators in 2018
May lose other coaches as well to Patricia and McDaniel
Has lost some key lieutenants in the front office
Giants job is open THIS year
Better to leave one year too early than one year too late
This sounds bizarre.
In order for MP to coach the Pats this means there has to be some kind of conspiracy between MP and BB for MP to wait to do what BB does. Blows the idea of secrecy out of the water.
On the Giants side:
Eli is aging with no heir apparent
BB would have to break in all new coordinators and coaches in NY.
BB has no lieutenants in NY front office.
BB already has complete control in New England.
Cant get into details. Pats are prepared with a plan B. (Originally thought to be MP actually is JM).
To your points: The Giants situation is not better than the Pats. However, it would represent a change and a chance to start over. Best landing spot if he moves on from Pats.
Some pieces to work with
BB likes Mara and Gettleman
Some good players on the roster
The #2 pick in the draft
Not to sound rude, but are you considered an "asshat"? Secondly, how confident are you in this prediction?
A "basshat" the info sounds fishy and too good to be true. HOWEVER - I did hear something and nothing that has happened to date has made me think its wrong. At any rate I did not hear it was a done deal only that it did have "legs".
1/14/18, 9:11 AM
The report said eventually the deal is likely to get done so were still pretty much where weve been the last week or so.
1/14/18, 9:14 AM
Which is why the Giants were extremely hesitant to declare Patricia as the favorite. Said that all along.
Now ESPN says he will choose the Lions. NYG were prepared for this, but it's a blow
Hello, Mr. Wilks? Hey man, that stuff about you not being a candidate? Hey, we were just kidding!
Theres still a good chance its settle for whomever is left
Ive got no issue with Shurmur actually. He was my second choice after McDaniels.
But I dont think anyone has a clue.
Patricia and the Lions still need to agree to and work out the contract details after the Patriots' season ends.
Link - ( New Window )
It has to be speculation. They arent officially allowed to negotiate yet. If they came out and said it was a done deal there would be tampering issues.
1/14/18, 9:17 AM
As the New York Post has been reporting, Matt Patricia was one of THREE top candidates for the Giants. Now there are two, Pat Shurmur and Josh McDaniels.
DO NOT discount Shurmur.
Hello, Mr. Wilks? Hey man, that stuff about you not being a candidate? Hey, we were just kidding!
Would be a huge blow to the franchise and how theyre perceived throughout the league. Glad Mara was adamant in hiring Gettleman so quickly in part to get a leg up on the HC search.
It just makes no sense unless the Lions are offering a significantly higher salary.
Hello, Mr. Wilks? Hey man, that stuff about you not being a candidate? Hey, we were just kidding!
If hes the guy Gettleman wants, they should let him hire him. Especially since Gettleman has got the rep of a guy thats not exactly easy to work with. Some of these guys might not want to team with him
It just makes no sense unless the Lions are offering a significantly higher salary.
Sure it does for the reasons I listed in my thread yesterday.
It just makes no sense unless the Lions are offering a significantly higher salary.
Youre assuming they wanted to offer Patricia the job
The only 2 reasons that make sense in my mind are DET offered a much bigger salary or the Giants aren't interested.
Otherwise I see little reason why he'd choose the Lions over the Giants considering all the outside factors of his life.
1/14/18, 9:17 AM
As the New York Post has been reporting, Matt Patricia was one of THREE top candidates for the Giants. Now there are two, Pat Shurmur and Josh McDaniels.
DO NOT discount Shurmur.
Its really Shurmur or bust. Indy likely lands McDaniels.
This is the thread...
Duggan makes good point regarding Lions and Patricia - ( New Window )
Quote:
Giants just may be left at the alter here. McDaniels seems intent on Indy so that leaves Shurmur. And Arizona may be the front runner there.
Hello, Mr. Wilks? Hey man, that stuff about you not being a candidate? Hey, we were just kidding!
If hes the guy Gettleman wants, they should let him hire him. Especially since Gettleman has got the rep of a guy thats not exactly easy to work with. Some of these guys might not want to team with him
Wheres all of this evidence that Gettleman is hard to work with? Because aging vets that were making too much money didnt like the fact that he had no problem moving on from them in Carolina? Steve Smith and Deangelo Williams bitching about getting cut isnt exactly an indictment of Gettleman relationship with his colleagues. He was fired because the pervert owner had a soft spot for some of the players that Gettleman planned on cutting.
Ian Rapoport
Verified account @RapSheet
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#Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels has indicated to potential assistants to wait for him. The belief is he takes the #Colts job, as he's the clear favorite, sources say. Indy's other finalist is Mike Vrabel.
Thats why Im beginning to think its Shurmur they want. He should really stay out of it and just let the GM pick his own guy
Tomorrow right?
You gloss over all their problems while making the Giants sound like a dumpster fire.
The reason the Giants fell to the depths they have is because of Ben McAdoo. For some reason Mara let an incompetent boob into the building and then handed him the keys to the team. I will NEVER understand that and I'm sure we'll never hear the real story about who wanted him, and then who wanted to promote him.
It just strikes me as a very short-sighted move to say "Hey, I know the GM and I like Stafford better than Eli, so I'm moving to Detroit. Family be damned." I just don't see it as THAT much more appealing. The Giants are rebuilding, have the #2 pick in every round and a winning tradition. And he wouldn't even have to move if he didn't feel like it.
The only thing that makes sense, to me, is $$$ or that's his only play. And I'm not even knocking DET, my fiance is from that area and it's really a fine place to live, the suburbs are great and I highly doubt he's worried about any lack of nightlife or club scene.
If we were waiting for Matty P. to make his decision and it truly is him choosing Detroit over NY then Mara and Getts look very bad in their attempt to restore pride to the Giant name. Again if true, waiting this long to be left at the altar just isnt a good look for either of them. If that is not the case, then I dont see how you dont push the right narrative using your back channels in the media to avert looking this bad
Still in play for Shurmur but if he goes to Arizona, a team seemingly in NFL purgatory over the NYG, then yes indeed its an epic embarrassing blow to Mara, Gettleman, and us as fans. Rock fucking bottom. Just one more kick to the balls for old times sake from 2017.
Vrabel will be a future star HC in this league
While the beats would need to back pedal to restore some credibility, its more on the Giants PR team to do the same. Either way they let that narrative run rampant all week without any attempts to to tell the right story.
Remember,
There's a little boy and on his 14th birthday he gets a horse... and everybody in the village says, "how wonderful. The boy got a horse" And the Zen master says, "we'll see." Two years later, the boy falls off the horse, breaks his leg, and everyone in the village says, "How terrible." And the Zen master says, "We'll see." Then, a war breaks out and all the young men have to go off and fight... except the boy can't cause his legs all messed up. and everybody in the village says, "How wonderful."
The zen master replies, Well see!
If Patricia goes to Detroit he may only have a two-three year window to make playoff runs. If Detroit cant make it to the playoffs the next few years I could see both him and Quinn getting fired quickly.
Dont underestimate the increasing lack of patience by the Ford family.
The Giants job is a shitty job at the moment.
I prefer a defense first guy, but you need to score points to win football games too.
The Giants job is a shitty job at the moment.
Lions are one of the more unstable franchises in the league. The only stability theyve had is being consistently disappointing.
And as for pressure, the Ford family has indicated they expect a Super Bowl run in the next few years. Good luck to Patricia and Quinn on that while playing in a division with Rodgers and Mike Zimmers defense.
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choose the Lions too. More talent, less pressure, more stability.
The Giants job is a shitty job at the moment.
Lions are one of the more unstable franchises in the league. The only stability theyve had is being consistently disappointing.
And as for pressure, the Ford family has indicated they expect a Super Bowl run in the next few years. Good luck to Patricia and Quinn on that while playing in a division with Rodgers and Mike Zimmers defense.
I don't disagree with any of that, but the Giants are one of the least stable franchises in the NFL right now. New GM, about to be on our 3rd HC in 4 years, QB on his last legs while also having to groom a new one most likely. We're a mess.
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Shurmur and McDaniels.
McDaniels is a big long shot.
McDaniels is going to Indy. He wants the QB in place who is ready to win.
Mara is going to be forced to settle on Wilks.
The Giants job is a shitty job at the moment.
The Giants job is a shitty job at the moment.
I would strongly argue on the talent and stability comments.
Giants have some decent talent on defense and some good skill position players.
Both teams have some major things to fix
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Likely down to Shurmur and Wilks.
Mara is going to be forced to settle on Wilks.
.
Circling back to Wilks now is pathetic. Nothing against him but he was universally regarded as the odd man out after the initial round of interviews. Again Mara chose DG in haste without an extensive GM search in part to start the HC search earlier. And now, assuming they lose out on Shurmur, theyre going to be forced to settle on Wilks? Epic embarrassment.
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choose the Lions too. More talent, less pressure, more stability.
The Giants job is a shitty job at the moment.
Caldwell had winning seasons in 3 of 4 years and was fired. That's stability and no pressure? QB has a massive contract despite never winning a division title or a playoff game. Giants have more young talent than the record showed this year and a great opportunity to add to it via the draft. McAdoo ran this team into the ground.
Patricia has a 12 years prior working relationship with Detroits GM. That can't be discounted.
I talk football with a lot of people when I visit there: It's all Michigan/Michigan St.
So yes, while the Giants fans are angry at least people care about the team here. The Lions lost their fan base many, many years ago and aren't even taken seriously up there.
And to be clear - I don't think the fans will play into Patricia's decision 1%. (Nor should they.) Just making a comment after reading people bashing NY because the fans are volatile.
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In comment 13786987 Jon in NYC said:
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choose the Lions too. More talent, less pressure, more stability.
The Giants job is a shitty job at the moment.
Lions are one of the more unstable franchises in the league. The only stability theyve had is being consistently disappointing.
And as for pressure, the Ford family has indicated they expect a Super Bowl run in the next few years. Good luck to Patricia and Quinn on that while playing in a division with Rodgers and Mike Zimmers defense.
I don't disagree with any of that, but the Giants are one of the least stable franchises in the NFL right now. New GM, about to be on our 3rd HC in 4 years, QB on his last legs while also having to groom a new one most likely. We're a mess.
Where people see a mess, I see tremendous opportunity. Landscapes can easily be changed by those with the right vision, patience, touch.
McDaniels and Patricia may think they are making smart choices. They may both be terribly wrong.
By the way, both Colts fans and Lions fans feel their situations are a mess. I checked out some of their forums over the last week and many felt the Giants job would be the best! This is the chicken little mentality that sports fans have of thinking in a vacuum and looking in the mirror.
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Tried to be adamant about it without sounding redundant but as I said Patricia to Detroit is as bad of a secret as Shanahan to San Fran was last year. This theyre down to three is completely false and now the beats will do there best to backpedal and spin this.
While the beats would need to back pedal to restore some credibility, its more on the Giants PR team to do the same. Either way they let that narrative run rampant all week without any attempts to to tell the right story.
I see what youre saying but I dont agree. The Giants F.O. are well seasoned. They dont lose sleep over the opinions of the sheep.
Vrabel will be a future star HC in this league
I like Vrabel, too. Great Buckeye. Excellent NFL player. But how the hell do you know that ? Have you sat in on his unit meetings or something ?
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In comment 13786992 Sammo85 said:
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In comment 13786987 Jon in NYC said:
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choose the Lions too. More talent, less pressure, more stability.
The Giants job is a shitty job at the moment.
Lions are one of the more unstable franchises in the league. The only stability theyve had is being consistently disappointing.
And as for pressure, the Ford family has indicated they expect a Super Bowl run in the next few years. Good luck to Patricia and Quinn on that while playing in a division with Rodgers and Mike Zimmers defense.
I don't disagree with any of that, but the Giants are one of the least stable franchises in the NFL right now. New GM, about to be on our 3rd HC in 4 years, QB on his last legs while also having to groom a new one most likely. We're a mess.
Where people see a mess, I see tremendous opportunity. Landscapes can easily be changed by those with the right vision, patience, touch.
McDaniels and Patricia may think they are making smart choices. They may both be terribly wrong.
By the way, both Colts fans and Lions fans feel their situations are a mess. I checked out some of their forums over the last week and many felt the Giants job would be the best! This is the chicken little mentality that sports fans have of thinking in a vacuum and looking in the mirror.
It's actually the exact opposite. It's me taking an objective look at the situation and realizing that the Lions are in a much better position to succeed than the Giants.
Will that always be the case? No. Will it even be the case to start next year? No. But as of right now you'd be crazy to say that the Giants are in a closer position to Win than the Lions.
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In comment 13786987 Jon in NYC said:
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choose the Lions too. More talent, less pressure, more stability.
The Giants job is a shitty job at the moment.
Caldwell had winning seasons in 3 of 4 years and was fired. That's stability and no pressure? QB has a massive contract despite never winning a division title or a playoff game. Giants have more young talent than the record showed this year and a great opportunity to add to it via the draft. McAdoo ran this team into the ground.
Patricia has a 12 years prior working relationship with Detroits GM. That can't be discounted.
They will both be fired together if they dont win and win quickly. The Lions just fired a coach after multiple winning seasons.
so true brunswick,eli is a big negative for potential coaches.
But Patricia's from upstate NY and his family wouldn't even have to move unless they wanted to. And then they'd only have to move a few hours drive away. So I don't see that factoring in here.
But a GM who has a 12 year prior working relationship with Patricia.
Uber, Stafford may have won nothing, but it's very arguable that Eli's wins are in the rearview. Lots here mocked Duggan's thesis, seemed pretty rational to me. And for those arguing Patricia was no more than BB's reflected glory, why wouldn't the Giants want someone who learned, absorbed, from the best?
DAMMIT!
And if Shurmur chooses to go to a team in nfl purgatory (cards), the NYG will be rightfully mocked, ridiculed, and thoroughly embarrassed when they are forced to settle.
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In comment 13786994 Jon in NYC said:
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In comment 13786992 Sammo85 said:
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In comment 13786987 Jon in NYC said:
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choose the Lions too. More talent, less pressure, more stability.
The Giants job is a shitty job at the moment.
Lions are one of the more unstable franchises in the league. The only stability theyve had is being consistently disappointing.
And as for pressure, the Ford family has indicated they expect a Super Bowl run in the next few years. Good luck to Patricia and Quinn on that while playing in a division with Rodgers and Mike Zimmers defense.
I don't disagree with any of that, but the Giants are one of the least stable franchises in the NFL right now. New GM, about to be on our 3rd HC in 4 years, QB on his last legs while also having to groom a new one most likely. We're a mess.
Where people see a mess, I see tremendous opportunity. Landscapes can easily be changed by those with the right vision, patience, touch.
McDaniels and Patricia may think they are making smart choices. They may both be terribly wrong.
By the way, both Colts fans and Lions fans feel their situations are a mess. I checked out some of their forums over the last week and many felt the Giants job would be the best! This is the chicken little mentality that sports fans have of thinking in a vacuum and looking in the mirror.
It's actually the exact opposite. It's me taking an objective look at the situation and realizing that the Lions are in a much better position to succeed than the Giants.
Will that always be the case? No. Will it even be the case to start next year? No. But as of right now you'd be crazy to say that the Giants are in a closer position to Win than the Lions.
Thats not what a coach is looking for all the time. Win now situations get coaches fired more quickly than not. Lions are not really that close. Their defense took a huge step back. Their run game is garbage. Their QB eats up a huge chunk of their cap.
There is a base to work with, but there is not a lot of flexibility or patience.
The Giants are a challenging situation but one with tremendous opportunity, some assets to work with, and a huge windfall if you can turn it around.
Why?
Whats your point? You always love to shit on the Giants at every turn. Every year you do the same thing in free agency. The Giants are not a desirable destination.... You say it every season. You love to play the contrarian constantly.
It couldnt possibly be that Patricia chose the Lions because of his relationship with the GM, right? Or McDaniels loves the thought of having Andrew Luck in place, right? It just HAS to be that the Giants job sucks and nobody wants it. Cant possibly be any other motives for players/coaches decisions.
Who knows the Patricia was the clear favorite for the giants a few days ago.
And our #2 pick this year is practically another 1st. Just look at the talent that sits out there end of round 1 every year. Great opportunity for any coach with vision to build his roster.
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of you guys are twisting yourselves into pretzels to defend your point of view. Whether you agree with it or not, whether you like it or not, the Giants have been rejected by Patricia in favor of the Lions. The Giants didn't say no to Patricia. It is also likely that McDaniels is doing the same by choosing Indy. You can spin this anyway you want to make you feel better, but it is what it is.
And if Shurmur chooses to go to a team in nfl purgatory (cards), the NYG will be rightfully mocked, ridiculed, and thoroughly embarrassed when they are forced to settle.
You seem to be incredibly concerned with what other people think or say. Why do you give a shit? I appears that the only thing you care about is your friends mocking you. You really that sensitive?
Yup, but I wont lose sleep over either one. We arent losing out on the next Lombardi or Landry. Both will be fired within four years time with no Super Bowl wins. Book it.
The Patriots have all said the right things... I just don't know.
Yea, Its been Wilks and Shurmur all along. Patricia to Detroit was a forgone conclusion.
McDaniels is still uncertain. There is a lot of speculation around the Indy reports not enough fact. I was told (a few days ago, even posted it) to keep an eye on Tennessee. Theyre lurking. If they can get McDaniels theyll dump Mularkey.
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In comment 13787025 Eric from BBI said:
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of you guys are twisting yourselves into pretzels to defend your point of view. Whether you agree with it or not, whether you like it or not, the Giants have been rejected by Patricia in favor of the Lions. The Giants didn't say no to Patricia. It is also likely that McDaniels is doing the same by choosing Indy. You can spin this anyway you want to make you feel better, but it is what it is.
And if Shurmur chooses to go to a team in nfl purgatory (cards), the NYG will be rightfully mocked, ridiculed, and thoroughly embarrassed when they are forced to settle.
You seem to be incredibly concerned with what other people think or say. Why do you give a shit? I appears that the only thing you care about is your friends mocking you. You really that sensitive?
Huh? Nobodys mocking me at all.
I think its more realistically Shurmur and Wilks.
Thats a good thought
Jon count me in. That would be awesome
The Patriots have all said the right things... I just don't know.
that's in honesty is a pipe dream in giants fans fantasy world..it s fun to dream..but in reality..that's all that is or was..
that whole NE thing was fodder..and click bait article type material in lull time of recent..nothing more
Of course Patricia chose Detroit, he has a working relationship with the gm..
And why should the giants be embarrassed if they hire wilkes? When did the giants say that he was out?
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Id take him over Wilkes and Shurmur
Vrabel will be a future star HC in this league
I like Vrabel, too. Great Buckeye. Excellent NFL player. But how the hell do you know that ? Have you sat in on his unit meetings or something ?
I dont know anything. Its just a gut feeling. Ive watched a bunch of Texans games. Just seems like his guys play for him
Have you ever had a gut feeling about something?
Vrabel is also a winner. Comes from the Patriot organization Good guy
Played the game right. Smart guy too
BB's tree not always successful McD got canned before, Crennel seems better suited at DC, Hufnagel came here as OC and was a disaster.
Yea its Wilks or Shurmur. I know for sure Wilks isnt out of it.
I agree and apparently so do a lot of other people. Shurmur to Arizona is a great fit. Bradford is his guy. Thats a plus for Arizona.
BB's tree not always successful McD got canned before, Crennel seems better suited at DC, Hufnagel came here as OC and was a disaster.
Such lazy analysis...
I wanted Patricia but wont lose sleep over not getting him as theres pros to each of the candidates we interviewed. But this notion that Pats cooridinators are only good because of BB is laughable.
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In comment 13786973 Earl the goat said:
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Id take him over Wilkes and Shurmur
Vrabel will be a future star HC in this league
I like Vrabel, too. Great Buckeye. Excellent NFL player. But how the hell do you know that ? Have you sat in on his unit meetings or something ?
I dont know anything. Its just a gut feeling. Ive watched a bunch of Texans games. Just seems like his guys play for him
Have you ever had a gut feeling about something?
Vrabel is also a winner. Comes from the Patriot organization Good guy
Played the game right. Smart guy too
The adoration for Vrabel here is ridiculous. Review of Vrabel per their plugged in guys...
Additionally, Mike Vrabel struggled in his new defensive coordinator role. He started the year being too cute in trying to generate a pass rush when he had three players that can win blocks on their own. The team continued to play Cover Four while struggling to pass off receivers correctly, and the Texans lost to Seattle and New England because of it. Vrabel didnt scheme to his opponent well and did things like play man against the horizontal crossing route offense that the Jaguars utilize by getting their quick receivers running full speed in space. I was never all the way here for Vrabel being good at this immediately. Calling plays and game planning is much different than teaching linebackers about hand placement after a first step in a pass rush.
That's what I've been saying as well. 12 years in NE together in fact.
As far as I know that dude hasn't been wrong yet.
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Paul Schwartz (@NYPost_Schwartz)
1/14/18, 9:17 AM
As the New York Post has been reporting, Matt Patricia was one of THREE top candidates for the Giants. Now there are two, Pat Shurmur and Josh McDaniels.
DO NOT discount Shurmur.
Its really Shurmur or bust. Indy likely lands McDaniels.
We should be so lucky, on both fronts.
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In comment 13786994 Jon in NYC said:
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In comment 13786992 Sammo85 said:
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In comment 13786987 Jon in NYC said:
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choose the Lions too. More talent, less pressure, more stability.
The Giants job is a shitty job at the moment.
Lions are one of the more unstable franchises in the league. The only stability theyve had is being consistently disappointing.
And as for pressure, the Ford family has indicated they expect a Super Bowl run in the next few years. Good luck to Patricia and Quinn on that while playing in a division with Rodgers and Mike Zimmers defense.
I don't disagree with any of that, but the Giants are one of the least stable franchises in the NFL right now. New GM, about to be on our 3rd HC in 4 years, QB on his last legs while also having to groom a new one most likely. We're a mess.
Where people see a mess, I see tremendous opportunity. Landscapes can easily be changed by those with the right vision, patience, touch.
McDaniels and Patricia may think they are making smart choices. They may both be terribly wrong.
By the way, both Colts fans and Lions fans feel their situations are a mess. I checked out some of their forums over the last week and many felt the Giants job would be the best! This is the chicken little mentality that sports fans have of thinking in a vacuum and looking in the mirror.
It's actually the exact opposite. It's me taking an objective look at the situation and realizing that the Lions are in a much better position to succeed than the Giants.
Will that always be the case? No. Will it even be the case to start next year? No. But as of right now you'd be crazy to say that the Giants are in a closer position to Win than the Lions.
Very true, but the Giants are closer than the Falcons. Sorry s still a little bitter from last night.
I think BBI needs to understand that despite the Giants being a stable franchise with good patient owners and a great tradition the HC job is not as attractive as the open jobs with young successful QBs and in tact locker rooms. McDaniels and Patricia have been hot commodities as HC candidates for years and they have also been extremely calculated in their decision making process. Neither was going to put themselves in what they perceived to be a risky situation and the Giants job is more high risk than Detroit or Indy right now.
Detroit has a young franchise QB, good talent on D, an established offense, and a GM who has ties to the Pats. The Giants offense is an enigma as is the future of the qb position and the defense would rather fight itself than the other team. Plus as much as I like Gettleman, hes strong willed and is probably not open to sharing power on personnel with a HC. I completely get why Patricia prefers the Lions. I think its the wrong choice in the long run and I dont think the Lions will be as patient as the Giants, but I can see why this makes sense to Patricia.
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In comment 13787016 RetroJint said:
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In comment 13786973 Earl the goat said:
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Id take him over Wilkes and Shurmur
Vrabel will be a future star HC in this league
I like Vrabel, too. Great Buckeye. Excellent NFL player. But how the hell do you know that ? Have you sat in on his unit meetings or something ?
I dont know anything. Its just a gut feeling. Ive watched a bunch of Texans games. Just seems like his guys play for him
Have you ever had a gut feeling about something?
Vrabel is also a winner. Comes from the Patriot organization Good guy
Played the game right. Smart guy too
The adoration for Vrabel here is ridiculous. Review of Vrabel per their plugged in guys...
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The Texans defense plummeted from where we are accustomed to seeing them. Going back to 2012, the Texans have finished 4th, 18th, 6th, 8th, and 9th in defensive DVOA. This year they fell all the way to 23rd. They had a pass defense DVOA of 19.2% (25th) and a run defense DVOA of -9.9% (12th)
Additionally, Mike Vrabel struggled in his new defensive coordinator role. He started the year being too cute in trying to generate a pass rush when he had three players that can win blocks on their own. The team continued to play Cover Four while struggling to pass off receivers correctly, and the Texans lost to Seattle and New England because of it. Vrabel didnt scheme to his opponent well and did things like play man against the horizontal crossing route offense that the Jaguars utilize by getting their quick receivers running full speed in space. I was never all the way here for Vrabel being good at this immediately. Calling plays and game planning is much different than teaching linebackers about hand placement after a first step in a pass rush.
Vrabel Lost his best two players on defense. Does that account for anything
Not to mention Texans lost their star QB. Which means his defense spends more time on the field
Vrabel is and will grow as a coach and I think he has the goods
Its not looking like the Giants are in a position of strength where HCs are not without better options and more stable organization to choose from at this point. This organization threw the GM and HC under the bus for making a decision that one player and the fans cried like spoiled kids about. Lets not kid ourselves either any HC could look at film just like our new GM not much to like about whats on film.
Again, the "love fest" for Patricia and McD is fueled to a large extent because they coach for BB. And, that coaching for BB is certainly not an indication they will be successful at next level.
And, as I stated in a few posts up from that, it is a puzzle trying to figure out who will be successful at the next level.
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ia based on their umbilical connection to BB.
BB's tree not always successful McD got canned before, Crennel seems better suited at DC, Hufnagel came here as OC and was a disaster.
Such lazy analysis...
I wanted Patricia but wont lose sleep over not getting him as theres pros to each of the candidates we interviewed. But this notion that Pats cooridinators are only good because of BB is laughable.
Fair enough, but there's no evidence that they're good for any other reason, because they haven't been good at the NFL level when they're apart from BB.
McDaniels likes Luck and Indy. Shurmer may pick AZ because they have a better roster and he's more likely to bring to bring Keemun with him there. It's a very real possibility that the Giants will have to go plan B here.
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of you guys are twisting yourselves into pretzels to defend your point of view. Whether you agree with it or not, whether you like it or not, the Giants have been rejected by Patricia in favor of the Lions. The Giants didn't say no to Patricia. It is also likely that McDaniels is doing the same by choosing Indy. You can spin this anyway you want to make you feel better, but it is what it is.
I think BBI needs to understand that despite the Giants being a stable franchise with good patient owners and a great tradition the HC job is not as attractive as the open jobs with young successful QBs and in tact locker rooms. McDaniels and Patricia have been hot commodities as HC candidates for years and they have also been extremely calculated in their decision making process. Neither was going to put themselves in what they perceived to be a risky situation and the Giants job is more high risk than Detroit or Indy right now.
Detroit has a young franchise QB, good talent on D, an established offense, and a GM who has ties to the Pats. The Giants offense is an enigma as is the future of the qb position and the defense would rather fight itself than the other team. Plus as much as I like Gettleman, hes strong willed and is probably not open to sharing power on personnel with a HC. I completely get why Patricia prefers the Lions. I think its the wrong choice in the long run and I dont think the Lions will be as patient as the Giants, but I can see why this makes sense to Patricia.
Eric is usually pessimistic about everything. Patricia could have been given an offer he couldnt refuse, whether thats monetary, control, or other future guarantees. There are things to like about the Detroit roster but you can argue the Giants have better pieces and vice versa until your blue in the face. The fact is he is going to a shitstain franchise which tells me theres more to it and just the QB.
Everyone thinks they know why a coach went somewhere. The only actual connection you can point to that matters is the GM, everything else is all speculation.
McDaniels likes Luck and Indy. Shurmer may pick AZ because they have a better roster and he's more likely to bring to bring Keemun with him there. It's a very real possibility that the Giants will have to go plan B here.
It is plan b based on what?
FWIW, *Everybodys* wins, pretty much by definition, are in the rear view. Not sure that its a profound statement. Also, inarguable is that nobody knows what will come to pass.
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In comment 13787076 bc4life said:
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ia based on their umbilical connection to BB.
BB's tree not always successful McD got canned before, Crennel seems better suited at DC, Hufnagel came here as OC and was a disaster.
Such lazy analysis...
I wanted Patricia but wont lose sleep over not getting him as theres pros to each of the candidates we interviewed. But this notion that Pats cooridinators are only good because of BB is laughable.
Fair enough, but there's no evidence that they're good for any other reason, because they haven't been good at the NFL level when they're apart from BB.
Its still shit logic. Patricia didnt come on a conveyor belt as the next guy in line to just parrot BB and be his drone. Hes actuall transformed a portion of how the Pats operate and has been running the defense for 6 years. Hes as qualified as anyone to get a HC gig. Its also quite possible in his older age that BB leans on his coordinators more - just speculation but its plausible.
In any case, it is what it is at this point.
Anyone????
how the hell do you know? Did someone from within the organization come out and say that Patricia is our guy?
Maybe the interview did not go well. Maybe the Lions were offering a better compensation plan. Maybe it would be more of a coaching challenge to get the Lions their first Superbowl ever. Maybe Patricia does not feel like he needs to worry about the QB position in Detroit vs NY.
MAYBE Detroit offered him a job and the Giants didn't. Holy shit imagine that ! How dare Patricia accept a position with a team that actually offered him the job.
Not true at all because what is obvious is that Mara doesn't want egg in his face for picking an inexperienced coach after choosing BM two years ago and he really believes that experience matters...He also was going to get backlash if he chose a coach too soon. I think that Wilks is the pick and the Giants are doing their due diligence with the HC search.
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As "Patricia was the favorite to sign with the Giants". The beats weren't wrong, "a few days ago Patricia was coming here" was never a reality, you assumed it.
McDaniels likes Luck and Indy. Shurmer may pick AZ because they have a better roster and he's more likely to bring to bring Keemun with him there. It's a very real possibility that the Giants will have to go plan B here.
It is plan b based on what?
If plan b is Wilks then ok. Its quite possible the Giants are equally happy with Patricia, McDaniels, Shurmur, and Wilks as potential head coaches. I know I am. They all have their pros and cons.
BBI: What coach wouldn't want the NY Giants job...
- Patricia is on Giant's short list
BBI: He's okay but we will have pick of the litter
- Patricia is also a candidate in Detroit
BBI: No worries, he'll never take that job over NY
- Patricia to Lions
BBI: What the hell are the Giants doing sitting on their asses while all the good coaches are being snapped up?
I agree with you here, I'm surprised more people aren't talking about the $$$$ factor, too.
It's employment. 99% of the consideration is $$$, followed by family relocation.
Had not. That sounds incredibly crafty of Mara, not sure thats our style😋
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this was leaked to Schefter and that it's a bargaining ploy?
Had not. That sounds incredibly crafty of Mara, not sure thats our style😋
Emil - leaked by someone in the Patricia camp
Well, the Giant franchise seems to do a very good job at panicking so lets see how this plays out in the next 24 hours...
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This is us left at the alter.
how the hell do you know? Did someone from within the organization come out and say that Patricia is our guy?
Maybe the interview did not go well. Maybe the Lions were offering a better compensation plan. Maybe it would be more of a coaching challenge to get the Lions their first Superbowl ever. Maybe Patricia does not feel like he needs to worry about the QB position in Detroit vs NY.
MAYBE Detroit offered him a job and the Giants didn't. Holy shit imagine that ! How dare Patricia accept a position with a team that actually offered him the job.
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Austin as a DC candidate
Thats a good thought
Im pretty sure I heard the other week, the Bengals hired him
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this was leaked to Schefter and that it's a bargaining ploy?
Well, the Giant franchise seems to do a very good job at panicking so lets see how this plays out in the next 24 hours...
Spags named HC is the panic move
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Eli's age and lack of great success in recent years, it's pretty obvious his window is short, at best.
thats might be true. But saying any past win is in the rear view is meaningless.
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In comment 13787135 gidiefor said:
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this was leaked to Schefter and that it's a bargaining ploy?
Well, the Giant franchise seems to do a very good job at panicking so lets see how this plays out in the next 24 hours...
Spags named HC is the panic move
About as likely as winning the PowerBall lottery.
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In comment 13787138 UberAlias said:
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Eli's age and lack of great success in recent years, it's pretty obvious his window is short, at best.
thats might be true. But saying any past win is in the rear view is meaningless.
It wasn't my term. And it was used in a specific context of discussion relative to Stafford.
I agree with you on this. But I like Chud as an OC with him a bit more
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In comment 13787174 Jimmy Googs said:
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In comment 13787135 gidiefor said:
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this was leaked to Schefter and that it's a bargaining ploy?
Well, the Giant franchise seems to do a very good job at panicking so lets see how this plays out in the next 24 hours...
Spags named HC is the panic move
About as likely as winning the PowerBall lottery.
It was a joke
Yup, but I wont lose sleep over either one. We arent losing out on the next Lombardi or Landry. Both will be fired within four years time with no Super Bowl wins. Book it.
And we can book it that the next Giants HC won't be fired within 4 years?
Even if both are indeed fired within 4 years, they will merely have the same fate as 3 of the last 5 Giants head coaches did. So who are we to laugh at them? And that's not counting the interim Spag.
They never had had a stable franchise, the have no offensive line, no running game. A decent overpaid QB...a couple OK WR's...and a meh defense.
Oh they also play in the division with arguably the two best teams in the NFC in the vikings and packers when rodgers is healthy. Patricia wont sniff the playoffs and be fired in 3 years.
Yes the giants are a rebuild but its still the "giants". We have a top pick and still big time defensive players and arguably the most talented skill position player in the NFL...unless its just about the former relationship he's had with the guys that was in the pats and now running the lions...it makes no sense to me
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of you guys are twisting yourselves into pretzels to defend your point of view. Whether you agree with it or not, whether you like it or not, the Giants have been rejected by Patricia in favor of the Lions. The Giants didn't say no to Patricia. It is also likely that McDaniels is doing the same by choosing Indy. You can spin this anyway you want to make you feel better, but it is what it is.
Whats your point? You always love to shit on the Giants at every turn. Every year you do the same thing in free agency. The Giants are not a desirable destination.... You say it every season. You love to play the contrarian constantly.
It couldnt possibly be that Patricia chose the Lions because of his relationship with the GM, right? Or McDaniels loves the thought of having Andrew Luck in place, right? It just HAS to be that the Giants job sucks and nobody wants it. Cant possibly be any other motives for players/coaches decisions.
Everything you wrote here about me is absolutely incorrect, but if it helps you to justify ignoring my input, so be it.
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As "Patricia was the favorite to sign with the Giants". The beats weren't wrong, "a few days ago Patricia was coming here" was never a reality, you assumed it.
McDaniels likes Luck and Indy. Shurmer may pick AZ because they have a better roster and he's more likely to bring to bring Keemun with him there. It's a very real possibility that the Giants will have to go plan B here.
It is plan b based on what?
Based on what's been reported basically everywhere. I'm not really big on buying the cloak and dagger bullshit, enough people were reporting that the Giants were favoring Patricia for me to believe it was true. Enough people are reporting that McDaniels and Shurmer are also high on our list for me to buy that as well.
Personally, I like Wilks, so I'm perfectly cool with "settling" on him.
They never had had a stable franchise, the have no offensive line, no running game. A decent overpaid QB...a couple OK WR's...and a meh defense.
Oh they also play in the division with arguably the two best teams in the NFC in the vikings and packers when rodgers is healthy. Patricia wont sniff the playoffs and be fired in 3 years.
Yes the giants are a rebuild but its still the "giants". We have a top pick and still big time defensive players and arguably the most talented skill position player in the NFL...unless its just about the former relationship he's had with the guys that was in the pats and now running the lions...it makes no sense to me
Are we really not as great as we think we are?
You might be right. But how can we know if there was actually an offer? HC jobs dont grow on trees. Some of these guys have to take a wink wink offer and not wait on the Giants old time ways of doing everything by the book, with integrity.
Any way, I think it might all work out, where theyll possibly be forced to allow the GM to hire his own guy. WILKS
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In comment 13787157 Bill L said:
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In comment 13787138 UberAlias said:
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Eli's age and lack of great success in recent years, it's pretty obvious his window is short, at best.
thats might be true. But saying any past win is in the rear view is meaningless.
It wasn't my term. And it was used in a specific context of discussion relative to Stafford.
whose wins are also in the rear view
Wilks and Shurmer were my choices from the start.
If Wilks was DG man from the start, Then Mara shouild go with his GM's choice.
Scary thing about him. He might keep Spags. lol
Another thing about Patricia that rubs me the wrong way is his whole frat bro personna. The backwards hat, the sloppy appearance, the ridiculous beard, the clown tee shirt, these things all present a childish image. Hey, that probably works just fine in Foxborough. But does anyone think that sort of thing is what Eli Apple or LC or OBJ need at this juncture in their careers? I dont think so. Let the various Hoodie princes go where they may. Its just as likely theyll flame out like nearly - if not every - Belichick coach that has left the ideal situation created in NE.
His coaching record was mixed with the Rams, but so was BB's with Cleveland. SS has probably learned from that. As a coordinator he has always been flexible and willing to go with what worked. As a coordinator he has been a winner for the Giants until this year. Thats should be more important to the Giants than his record with other teams.
His coaching record was mixed with the Rams, but so was BB's with Cleveland. SS has probably learned from that. As a coordinator he has always been flexible and willing to go with what worked. As a coordinator he has been a winner for the Giants until this year. Thats should be more important to the Giants than his record with other teams.
Huh?
Also, if he was under serious consideration, why would they tell all assistants they were free to look for jobs?
No loss, no gain from my perspective. Patricia is a huge unknown. It's one thing to wear the DC head set for the Pats knowing one of the game's great defensive minds is always less than 10 yards away. It's another to have to be responsible for all aspects of the team and set and create the culture.
This is correct. Two said Patricia was 1a. Others said he was one of three final candidates.
So the possibilities include:
(1) Patricia was 1a and simply chose Det over NYC.
(2) Patricia found out he wasn't 1a and he settled for DET.
(3) Giants hadn't decided and he didn't want to wait any longer.
#2 scenario works if you believe Giants have a deal done with Shurmur or McDaniels.
And you know this how?
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some have said there is no clear favorite. Who knows.
This is correct. Two said Patricia was 1a. Others said he was one of three final candidates.
So the possibilities include:
(1) Patricia was 1a and simply chose Det over NYC.
(2) Patricia found out he wasn't 1a and he settled for DET.
(3) Giants hadn't decided and he didn't want to wait any longer.
#2 scenario works if you believe Giants have a deal done with Shurmur or McDaniels.
My instincts tell me I doubt Mara has circumvented the rules and has a deal with either Shurmur or McDaniels. Hes likely content, for better or worse, waiting it out. Its likely gonna backfire badly, but thats been par for the course for this franchise the last calendar year.
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Tried to be adamant about it without sounding redundant but as I said Patricia to Detroit is as bad of a secret as Shanahan to San Fran was last year. This theyre down to three is completely false and now the beats will do there best to backpedal and spin this.
While the beats would need to back pedal to restore some credibility, its more on the Giants PR team to do the same. Either way they let that narrative run rampant all week without any attempts to to tell the right story.
They don't have a "right story" to tell. Technically, none of these candidates can be hired yet. There's no actual way to refute the beats doing what amounts to glorified rumormongering. Is it really that complicated to understand that?
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some have said there is no clear favorite. Who knows.
This is correct. Two said Patricia was 1a. Others said he was one of three final candidates.
So the possibilities include:
(1) Patricia was 1a and simply chose Det over NYC.
(2) Patricia found out he wasn't 1a and he settled for DET.
(3) Giants hadn't decided and he didn't want to wait any longer.
#2 scenario works if you believe Giants have a deal done with Shurmur or McDaniels.
Why couldn't Quinn have given Patricia a deadline?
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And someone on here told me he would never choose DET over the Giants. LOL, right.
And you know this how?
Know what?
Reese isnt here anymore. McAdoo isnt here anymore. Wake up.
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In comment 13787283 Dave in Hoboken said:
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And someone on here told me he would never choose DET over the Giants. LOL, right.
And you know this how?
Know what?
That he chose the lions over the giants, how do you know the giants ever made an offer?
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In comment 13787300 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 13787283 Dave in Hoboken said:
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And someone on here told me he would never choose DET over the Giants. LOL, right.
And you know this how?
Know what?
That he chose the lions over the giants, how do you know the giants ever made an offer?
LOL. Typical BBI shit-post.
Reese isnt here anymore. McAdoo isnt here anymore. Wake up.
Are you addressing me? If so, re-read my post. I said I doubt Mara has a deal with anyone and is probably content on waiting. If that indeed is his strategy, its likeky to backfire.
Fact is you do not know shit..
And now the same folks are going to use the same non-logic logic to assume Shurmur chooses us over Arizona. Maybe he will but maybe he won't.
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In comment 13787056 Dankbeerman said:
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Austin as a DC candidate
Thats a good thought
Im pretty sure I heard the other week, the Bengals hired him
Correctamundo. Teryl Austin took Bengals DC job last week.
And now the same folks are going to use the same non-logic logic to assume Shurmur chooses us over Arizona. Maybe he will but maybe he won't.
Pretty much. But someone can never choose another team over their beloved Giants. They said it'd never happen. Now, look.
And now the same folks are going to use the same non-logic logic to assume Shurmur chooses us over Arizona. Maybe he will but maybe he won't.
No way Shurmur chooses Arizona over the NYG. Its too damn hot.
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In comment 13786973 Earl the goat said:
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Id take him over Wilkes and Shurmur
Vrabel will be a future star HC in this league
I like Vrabel, too. Great Buckeye. Excellent NFL player. But how the hell do you know that ? Have you sat in on his unit meetings or something ?
I dont know anything. Its just a gut feeling. Ive watched a bunch of Texans games. Just seems like his guys play for him
Have you ever had a gut feeling about something?
Vrabel is also a winner. Comes from the Patriot organization Good guy
Played the game right. Smart guy too
They don't play particularly well for him.
So not for everybody...
And for those who say because of how fans reacted to Eli benching...?
To refresh your memory was not only fans but ex-players, both Giant and non-giant as well as personnel experts...
So if MP's decision based on fear of backlash from moving on from Eli than he never would last here anyway...
McDaniels
Crennel
Mangini
Hufnagel
1) Personnel process (POtential HC's view of it)
2) Media circus
3) Last HC didn't last a season (contrary to history and popular belief - Giants will cut losses early)
4) Quality of family life
5) $$$
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In comment 13787093 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 13787076 bc4life said:
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ia based on their umbilical connection to BB.
BB's tree not always successful McD got canned before, Crennel seems better suited at DC, Hufnagel came here as OC and was a disaster.
Such lazy analysis...
I wanted Patricia but wont lose sleep over not getting him as theres pros to each of the candidates we interviewed. But this notion that Pats cooridinators are only good because of BB is laughable.
Fair enough, but there's no evidence that they're good for any other reason, because they haven't been good at the NFL level when they're apart from BB.
Its still shit logic. Patricia didnt come on a conveyor belt as the next guy in line to just parrot BB and be his drone. Hes actuall transformed a portion of how the Pats operate and has been running the defense for 6 years. Hes as qualified as anyone to get a HC gig. Its also quite possible in his older age that BB leans on his coordinators more - just speculation but its plausible.
In any case, it is what it is at this point.
Dismissing a historical trend as "shit logic" is the very definition of "shit logic."
If Minnesota meets anyone in the Super Bowl. The Patriots are now irrelevant except for the BB pipe dream.
(blank you)! (Part II)
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In comment 13787122 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 13787093 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 13787076 bc4life said:
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ia based on their umbilical connection to BB.
BB's tree not always successful McD got canned before, Crennel seems better suited at DC, Hufnagel came here as OC and was a disaster.
Such lazy analysis...
I wanted Patricia but wont lose sleep over not getting him as theres pros to each of the candidates we interviewed. But this notion that Pats cooridinators are only good because of BB is laughable.
Fair enough, but there's no evidence that they're good for any other reason, because they haven't been good at the NFL level when they're apart from BB.
Its still shit logic. Patricia didnt come on a conveyor belt as the next guy in line to just parrot BB and be his drone. Hes actuall transformed a portion of how the Pats operate and has been running the defense for 6 years. Hes as qualified as anyone to get a HC gig. Its also quite possible in his older age that BB leans on his coordinators more - just speculation but its plausible.
In any case, it is what it is at this point.
Dismissing a historical trend as "shit logic" is the very definition of "shit logic."
You can associate it but not all these candidates are the same nor had the same which is why its shit logic to solely point to it as a reason it wont work.
Mangini was a coordinator for 1 year with the Pats an hen went to 2 shit franchises in NYJ and Cleveland. Crennel, 4 years as SC then went to the Browns.
McDaniels is the only guy you can quote and Id chalk it up to him being too young at 33/34 with too much bravado and it backfired.
But go on, tell me more.
this place would shutdown lol
Put another way - If you took defensive stats of Pats under Patricia and placed them under the name of any other DC in the league - would we be clamoring as loudly for them?
1/14/18, 9:14 AM
Which is why the Giants were extremely hesitant to declare Patricia as the favorite. Said that all along.
Now ESPN says he will choose the Lions. NYG were prepared for this, but it's a blow
Honestly I had a bad feeling about both Patricia and Wilks for one reason. There are not a lot of good offensive coaches left on the market for them to fill their staffs out with, and I am not confident in them to handle the offensive side all by themselves. On the defensive side, I feel like there are more decent coaching candidates left. Worst case, we can bring in John Fox as the DC, and Spags can coach the Linebackers, etc. We can build a decent defensive staff for an offensive coach such as Shurmur or McDaniels. As of now, McDaniels is my slight favorite. But Shurmur has a good resume as well.
And theres uncertainty with any candidate, thats my other point. You can find something you dont like about any of them.
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Giants just may be left at the alter here. McDaniels seems intent on Indy so that leaves Shurmur. And Arizona may be the front runner there.
Hello, Mr. Wilks? Hey man, that stuff about you not being a candidate? Hey, we were just kidding!
Would be a huge blow to the franchise and how theyre perceived throughout the league. Glad Mara was adamant in hiring Gettleman so quickly in part to get a leg up on the HC search.
So you're killing them for firing Reese and hiring gettleman swiftly?
I wanted Patricia but time to turn the page.
McDaniels is my 2nd choice- because of how creative he is offensively and seems be a strong play caller.
Not a Shurmur fan would take Wilks over him.
I get thinking things through but I feel like there is no sense of urgency.
Make your decision and go for it.
Maybe it is happening behind the scenes but it is obviously not apparent.
Lol oh really. Left at the alter by a guy that has NO head coaching experience?
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This is us left at the alter.
Lol oh really. Left at the alter by a guy that has NO head coaching experience?
Yep.
At the VP level, how directly involved are you in the scouting and decision making re: selection of the players? I don't know.
It is what it is? We don't even know what IT is. Spin what? How do you know the Giants offered the gig to Patricia? Because peter king feels like they did?
Doesn't matter anyway. Giants are just waiting on belichick.
Which brings me back to my last post: The Giants HC position is not a desirable one right now. Their best course of action is to keep Spags rather than to gamble on some retread. They can always fire Spags next year.
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In comment 13787134 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 13787122 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 13787093 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 13787076 bc4life said:
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ia based on their umbilical connection to BB.
BB's tree not always successful McD got canned before, Crennel seems better suited at DC, Hufnagel came here as OC and was a disaster.
Such lazy analysis...
I wanted Patricia but wont lose sleep over not getting him as theres pros to each of the candidates we interviewed. But this notion that Pats cooridinators are only good because of BB is laughable.
Fair enough, but there's no evidence that they're good for any other reason, because they haven't been good at the NFL level when they're apart from BB.
Its still shit logic. Patricia didnt come on a conveyor belt as the next guy in line to just parrot BB and be his drone. Hes actuall transformed a portion of how the Pats operate and has been running the defense for 6 years. Hes as qualified as anyone to get a HC gig. Its also quite possible in his older age that BB leans on his coordinators more - just speculation but its plausible.
In any case, it is what it is at this point.
Dismissing a historical trend as "shit logic" is the very definition of "shit logic."
You can associate it but not all these candidates are the same nor had the same which is why its shit logic to solely point to it as a reason it wont work.
Mangini was a coordinator for 1 year with the Pats an hen went to 2 shit franchises in NYJ and Cleveland. Crennel, 4 years as SC then went to the Browns.
McDaniels is the only guy you can quote and Id chalk it up to him being too young at 33/34 with too much bravado and it backfired.
But go on, tell me more.
You also argued at length about how a control group isn't necessary for qualified data, so you'll have to forgive me if I don't think your definition of "logic" passes muster.
Maybe havimg 35 mil in under performing DE's that dont fit his scheme or a a secondary full of me first players isnt something he wants to ruin his head coaching career.
Even McVay will have a hard time next year because he got so much more out of his team this year and his divison had a down year. Will be hard preased to continue sucess.
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The worst job a coach has in any professional sport is dealing with a beloved aging star that won championship(s) that doesn't realize he is declining and wants to play. Eli got the last the coach and GM fired with the way he played things. If you do not think team Eli did not know exactly what they were doing you are stupid. This may be the NYG but dealing with mess, now, after the shit show, with half fan base delusionally thinking Eli is still the man...Who the fuck would really want this job with other jobs available?
It may be the worst job, but its a job that any coach/manager must be able to do in any sport. If at some point last year, the Giants had quietly brought in Webb to start the second half of some game, do you think there would have been the shitstorm we saw ? Instead MacAdoo publicly throws Eli under the bus and announces that Gino fucking Smith is the starter and that he "gives us the best chance to win". By doing so they have poisoned the well for next year's HC. They know that they are stuck with Eli to start the season. Even if Eli is benched at some point and, God Forbid the next guy struggles, then the new HC is on his way out the door.
Which brings me back to my last post: The Giants HC position is not a desirable one right now. Their best course of action is to keep Spags rather than to gamble on some retread. They can always fire Spags next year.
My views now are tainted by hitdog's e-mail to me. It's up to him whether he wants to share or not.
If thats the definition of everyone under BB fails then I dont know what to tell you.
Let's hope so.
My guy since day one. Has had success everywhere (Cleveland gets an asterisk)
If we draft a QB he's been successful with each and every QB he's worked with. We'll have a fun offense.
Go get em' Gettleman! if the Vikings lose I guess we'll know by this week if it's him.
Jason La Canfora
Verified account @JasonLaCanfora
2h2 hours ago
If the Vikes lose tonight the NYG and Cards will pounce on Shurmur. He'll be hired by Monday. I'd give the advantage to NYG in that scenario
Im sure hes smart and good with offense. We need a HC, however, that is going to be a leader of men for this franchise for the next 8+ seasons. Is Pat Shurmur really this guy? I dont think he is, but I hope to hell im wrong.
Jason La Canfora
Verified account @JasonLaCanfora
2h2 hours ago
If the Vikes lose tonight the NYG and Cards will pounce on Shurmur. He'll be hired by Monday. I'd give the advantage to NYG in that scenario
And Vacchiano says itappears that Shurmur would prefer Arizona. Based on what, I have no idea.
Link - ( New Window )
Im sure hes smart and good with offense. We need a HC, however, that is going to be a leader of men for this franchise for the next 8+ seasons. Is Pat Shurmur really this guy? I dont think he is, but I hope to hell im wrong.
Well if it turns out he isn't a leader of men he'll definitely make our future QB a well coached leader of our team lol.
I get that sense too. But you never know. I said the same thing about Doug Pederson and he just won a playoff game without his QB1.
I think Munchak could fit that bill. But hed have to bring in strong coordinators.
Im sure hes smart and good with offense. We need a HC, however, that is going to be a leader of men for this franchise for the next 8+ seasons. Is Pat Shurmur really this guy? I dont think he is, but I hope to hell im wrong.
Shurmur from reports I have read is all about developing personal relationships with his players. TRULY cares about them and players respond to that bond by playing for him. He isnt a vocal motivator fur sur
If thats the definition of everyone under BB fails then I dont know what to tell you.
How many of Belichick's former assistants, including position coaches, even have a record above .500 with another team in the NFL? I'm not even limiting that to coaches that go on to become HCs - any assistants at all that move on from New England.
If you're unwilling to see a trend when it's staring you in the face, I don't know what to tell you.
Yeah, but he's been a coordinator for one year and never been a HC. Hard pass.
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you do whatever you want. Its the NFL. Mangini and Crennel failed over a decade ago, thats a lifetime. They failed with 2 absolutely miserable franchises. McDaniels has some success but took on too much and failed at a very young ago.
If thats the definition of everyone under BB fails then I dont know what to tell you.
How many of Belichick's former assistants, including position coaches, even have a record above .500 with another team in the NFL? I'm not even limiting that to coaches that go on to become HCs - any assistants at all that move on from New England.
If you're unwilling to see a trend when it's staring you in the face, I don't know what to tell you.
Bill O'Brien has done very good work in Houston. His carerr record would easily be over 500 if Watson didn't get hurt this year.
Agree. And in recent years they've been pretty bad. Not just this situation.
BBI doesn't agree on much. But if there's one thing I *think* we can all agree on, is that we all miss Garafolo.
You would have missed out on a lot of great coaches if you always had this line of thinking. Coordinator experience does not guarantee success as a head coach. And no, it doesnt mean you have a better chance at succeeding either. It never has and it never will - its a myth.
You would have missed out on a lot of great coaches if you always had this line of thinking. Coordinator experience does not guarantee success as a head coach. And no, it doesnt mean you have a better chance at succeeding either. It never has and it never will - its a myth.
This is going to be a very important hire in Giants history. I think it'd be extremely risky to go with another short-tenured coordinator after the McAdoo fiasco. Some stability is in order, IMO.
I love Gary Myers going with the flavor of the day coach. McDaniels>Wilks>Belicheck>Patricia. Guy has as much "inside" as posters here.
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the Giants beat guys have been absolutely brutal during all of this. Someone mentioned the Raanan thing during the draft where he listed 15 players and not Engram. This feels similar.
I love Gary Myers going with the flavor of the day coach. McDaniels>Wilks>Belicheck>Patricia. Guy has as much "inside" as posters here.
Myers is such a joke.
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and/or a prediction?
Cmon hitdog
My views now are tainted by hitdog's e-mail to me. It's up to him whether he wants to share or not.
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In comment 13787464 ryanmkeane said:
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the Giants beat guys have been absolutely brutal during all of this. Someone mentioned the Raanan thing during the draft where he listed 15 players and not Engram. This feels similar.
I love Gary Myers going with the flavor of the day coach. McDaniels>Wilks>Belicheck>Patricia. Guy has as much "inside" as posters here.
Myers is such a joke.
True that.
Waste a year on a hack who has already failed on multiple occasions. And this makes sense to you.
The story before has been that Payton would come here, but the team isn't warm on him allegedly because of personality or off-field things that are unclear.
and/or a prediction?
My views now are tainted by hitdog's e-mail to me. It's up to him whether he wants to share or not.
So Eric- are you happy, sad, mad, bad or glad after this email?
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Jason La Canfora
Verified account @JasonLaCanfora
2h2 hours ago
If the Vikes lose tonight the NYG and Cards will pounce on Shurmur. He'll be hired by Monday. I'd give the advantage to NYG in that scenario
And Vacchiano says itappears that Shurmur would prefer Arizona. Based on what, I have no idea.
The only reason, I can see that is its because he could for sure take a QB like Keenam with him there. Other than that, theyre brutal as far as offensive talent.
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In comment 13787135 gidiefor said:
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this was leaked to Schefter and that it's a bargaining ploy?
Had not. That sounds incredibly crafty of Mara, not sure thats our style😋
Emil - leaked by someone in the Patricia camp
Ahh, gotcha gidie I think that is possible but not convinced its likely. Im very intrigued by what hitdog might know...seems he might have a take worth sharing.
Would not surprise me if the Giants have actually already settled on a candidate and are in negotiations.
I posted on another thread to not rule out someone- I stick with that.
Full disclosure I have no clue on the schurmur side (meaning if hes hired I have no clue and if hes not I have no clue)
He comes to coach the Giants I think hes in play and I think Sean Payton is in play as well as The others also just my opinion
So fair to say you think McDaniels is still available. Giants are very interested but if they get word that hes on to colts they will move on to Shurmur
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In comment 13787427 UConn4523 said:
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you do whatever you want. Its the NFL. Mangini and Crennel failed over a decade ago, thats a lifetime. They failed with 2 absolutely miserable franchises. McDaniels has some success but took on too much and failed at a very young ago.
If thats the definition of everyone under BB fails then I dont know what to tell you.
How many of Belichick's former assistants, including position coaches, even have a record above .500 with another team in the NFL? I'm not even limiting that to coaches that go on to become HCs - any assistants at all that move on from New England.
If you're unwilling to see a trend when it's staring you in the face, I don't know what to tell you.
Bill O'Brien has done very good work in Houston. His carerr record would easily be over 500 if Watson didn't get hurt this year.
But it's not. And that's an incredibly small sample size. Besides, they were 3-4 when Watson got hurt. As a rookie QB, no matter how impressive his play was, there's no guarantee how he would have performed as the league continued to compile tape on him.
The facts are what they are. If O'Brien is the high-water mark of that particular coaching tree, that's not the best place to go picking your next coach. Could it be a coincidence? Absolutely. But in the face of a trend of evidence to the contrary, do you really want to bet on picking the exception?
Could you shoot me an email? id like to run something by you
abiancaniello@gmail.com
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In comment 13787454 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 13787427 UConn4523 said:
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you do whatever you want. Its the NFL. Mangini and Crennel failed over a decade ago, thats a lifetime. They failed with 2 absolutely miserable franchises. McDaniels has some success but took on too much and failed at a very young ago.
If thats the definition of everyone under BB fails then I dont know what to tell you.
How many of Belichick's former assistants, including position coaches, even have a record above .500 with another team in the NFL? I'm not even limiting that to coaches that go on to become HCs - any assistants at all that move on from New England.
If you're unwilling to see a trend when it's staring you in the face, I don't know what to tell you.
Bill O'Brien has done very good work in Houston. His carerr record would easily be over 500 if Watson didn't get hurt this year.
But it's not. And that's an incredibly small sample size. Besides, they were 3-4 when Watson got hurt. As a rookie QB, no matter how impressive his play was, there's no guarantee how he would have performed as the league continued to compile tape on him.
The facts are what they are. If O'Brien is the high-water mark of that particular coaching tree, that's not the best place to go picking your next coach. Could it be a coincidence? Absolutely. But in the face of a trend of evidence to the contrary, do you really want to bet on picking the exception?
You can play that game with anyone. Theres a reason why coaching turnover is so high in the NFL at every level. Whats next, critiquing BBs water boys?
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In comment 13787465 bw in dc said:
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In comment 13787454 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 13787427 UConn4523 said:
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you do whatever you want. Its the NFL. Mangini and Crennel failed over a decade ago, thats a lifetime. They failed with 2 absolutely miserable franchises. McDaniels has some success but took on too much and failed at a very young ago.
If thats the definition of everyone under BB fails then I dont know what to tell you.
How many of Belichick's former assistants, including position coaches, even have a record above .500 with another team in the NFL? I'm not even limiting that to coaches that go on to become HCs - any assistants at all that move on from New England.
If you're unwilling to see a trend when it's staring you in the face, I don't know what to tell you.
Bill O'Brien has done very good work in Houston. His carerr record would easily be over 500 if Watson didn't get hurt this year.
But it's not. And that's an incredibly small sample size. Besides, they were 3-4 when Watson got hurt. As a rookie QB, no matter how impressive his play was, there's no guarantee how he would have performed as the league continued to compile tape on him.
The facts are what they are. If O'Brien is the high-water mark of that particular coaching tree, that's not the best place to go picking your next coach. Could it be a coincidence? Absolutely. But in the face of a trend of evidence to the contrary, do you really want to bet on picking the exception?
You can play that game with anyone. Theres a reason why coaching turnover is so high in the NFL at every level. Whats next, critiquing BBs water boys?
Ok, have at it. Show me another coaching tree that has borne less fruit than Belichick's, and tell me which candidate from that tree you'd like to hire.
Dallas LB coach Matt Eberflus is the word on his choice of DC.
When he was the Rams OC in 2010,, Sam Bradford set the record for most throws without an INT for a rookie and was the NFL offensive rookie of the year.
Shurmur has 4 children and his son starts at QB for Vandy.
He has a very good resume. I see him as a very safe hire with a lot of potential.
Nope!
This is an update to what I said a couple days ago:
Belichick may return.
He is still trying to mend the fences in NE and is focused on the playoffs. Secrecy in NE is absolute - as it was when Parcells left. If BB comes to the Giants MP will coach the Pats. Otherwise, if BB stays MP will coach the Giants. Hard to give odds at this point. McDaniel will go elsewhere.
BB decision factors
Relationship with Kraft is worse than it was
Relationship with Brady is worse than it was
Brady is aging with no heir apparent
Would have to break in two new coordinators in 2018
May lose other coaches as well to Patricia and McDaniel
Has lost some key lieutenants in the front office
Giants job is open THIS year
Better to leave one year too early than one year too late
This is an update to what I said a couple days ago:
Belichick may return.
He is still trying to mend the fences in NE and is focused on the playoffs. Secrecy in NE is absolute - as it was when Parcells left. If BB comes to the Giants MP will coach the Pats. Otherwise, if BB stays MP will coach the Giants. Hard to give odds at this point. McDaniel will go elsewhere.
BB decision factors
Relationship with Kraft is worse than it was
Relationship with Brady is worse than it was
Brady is aging with no heir apparent
Would have to break in two new coordinators in 2018
May lose other coaches as well to Patricia and McDaniel
Has lost some key lieutenants in the front office
Giants job is open THIS year
Better to leave one year too early than one year too late
Is that you Gary Myers? lol
b. We don't need someone who's nervous about the NYC media.
It's possible that the Giants DIDN'T make him an offer, and that's why he continued interviewing.
b. We don't need someone who's nervous about the NYC media.
It's possible that the Giants DIDN'T make him an offer, and that's why he continued interviewing.
Continued interviewing? How so?
Continued interviewing? How so?
I thought he went to Detroit after meeting with the Giants.
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BB to Giants! Pats prefer McDaniel over MP. MP to Lions. Shurmer is fallback option for Giants.
This is an update to what I said a couple days ago:
Belichick may return.
He is still trying to mend the fences in NE and is focused on the playoffs. Secrecy in NE is absolute - as it was when Parcells left. If BB comes to the Giants MP will coach the Pats. Otherwise, if BB stays MP will coach the Giants. Hard to give odds at this point. McDaniel will go elsewhere.
BB decision factors
Relationship with Kraft is worse than it was
Relationship with Brady is worse than it was
Brady is aging with no heir apparent
Would have to break in two new coordinators in 2018
May lose other coaches as well to Patricia and McDaniel
Has lost some key lieutenants in the front office
Giants job is open THIS year
Better to leave one year too early than one year too late
Is that you Gary Myers? lol
LOL Busted!!!! I know you all will not believe it. Just remember that you heard it here first.
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In comment 13788031 Reale01 said:
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BB to Giants! Pats prefer McDaniel over MP. MP to Lions. Shurmer is fallback option for Giants.
This is an update to what I said a couple days ago:
Belichick may return.
He is still trying to mend the fences in NE and is focused on the playoffs. Secrecy in NE is absolute - as it was when Parcells left. If BB comes to the Giants MP will coach the Pats. Otherwise, if BB stays MP will coach the Giants. Hard to give odds at this point. McDaniel will go elsewhere.
BB decision factors
Relationship with Kraft is worse than it was
Relationship with Brady is worse than it was
Brady is aging with no heir apparent
Would have to break in two new coordinators in 2018
May lose other coaches as well to Patricia and McDaniel
Has lost some key lieutenants in the front office
Giants job is open THIS year
Better to leave one year too early than one year too late
Is that you Gary Myers? lol
LOL Busted!!!! I know you all will not believe it. Just remember that you heard it here first.
OK, you'll win the BBI scoop of the year award. LOL
This is an update to what I said a couple days ago:
Belichick may return.
He is still trying to mend the fences in NE and is focused on the playoffs. Secrecy in NE is absolute - as it was when Parcells left. If BB comes to the Giants MP will coach the Pats. Otherwise, if BB stays MP will coach the Giants. Hard to give odds at this point. McDaniel will go elsewhere.
BB decision factors
Relationship with Kraft is worse than it was
Relationship with Brady is worse than it was
Brady is aging with no heir apparent
Would have to break in two new coordinators in 2018
May lose other coaches as well to Patricia and McDaniel
Has lost some key lieutenants in the front office
Giants job is open THIS year
Better to leave one year too early than one year too late
This sounds bizarre.
In order for MP to coach the Pats this means there has to be some kind of conspiracy between MP and BB for MP to wait to do what BB does. Blows the idea of secrecy out of the water.
On the Giants side:
Eli is aging with no heir apparent
BB would have to break in all new coordinators and coaches in NY.
BB has no lieutenants in NY front office.
BB already has complete control in New England.
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BB to Giants! Pats prefer McDaniel over MP. MP to Lions. Shurmer is fallback option for Giants.
This is an update to what I said a couple days ago:
Belichick may return.
He is still trying to mend the fences in NE and is focused on the playoffs. Secrecy in NE is absolute - as it was when Parcells left. If BB comes to the Giants MP will coach the Pats. Otherwise, if BB stays MP will coach the Giants. Hard to give odds at this point. McDaniel will go elsewhere.
BB decision factors
Relationship with Kraft is worse than it was
Relationship with Brady is worse than it was
Brady is aging with no heir apparent
Would have to break in two new coordinators in 2018
May lose other coaches as well to Patricia and McDaniel
Has lost some key lieutenants in the front office
Giants job is open THIS year
Better to leave one year too early than one year too late
This sounds bizarre.
In order for MP to coach the Pats this means there has to be some kind of conspiracy between MP and BB for MP to wait to do what BB does. Blows the idea of secrecy out of the water.
On the Giants side:
Eli is aging with no heir apparent
BB would have to break in all new coordinators and coaches in NY.
BB has no lieutenants in NY front office.
BB already has complete control in New England.
Cant get into details. Pats are prepared with a plan B. (Originally thought to be MP actually is JM).
To your points: The Giants situation is not better than the Pats. However, it would represent a change and a chance to start over. Best landing spot if he moves on from Pats.
Some pieces to work with
BB likes Mara and Gettleman
Some good players on the roster
The #2 pick in the draft
Who else is on that damn list for those of us who hadn't seen it!!??
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Continued interviewing? How so?
I thought he went to Detroit after meeting with the Giants.
No. Detroit interviewed him NE same day as the Giants.
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In comment 13788031 Reale01 said:
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BB to Giants! Pats prefer McDaniel over MP. MP to Lions. Shurmer is fallback option for Giants.
This is an update to what I said a couple days ago:
Belichick may return.
He is still trying to mend the fences in NE and is focused on the playoffs. Secrecy in NE is absolute - as it was when Parcells left. If BB comes to the Giants MP will coach the Pats. Otherwise, if BB stays MP will coach the Giants. Hard to give odds at this point. McDaniel will go elsewhere.
BB decision factors
Relationship with Kraft is worse than it was
Relationship with Brady is worse than it was
Brady is aging with no heir apparent
Would have to break in two new coordinators in 2018
May lose other coaches as well to Patricia and McDaniel
Has lost some key lieutenants in the front office
Giants job is open THIS year
Better to leave one year too early than one year too late
This sounds bizarre.
In order for MP to coach the Pats this means there has to be some kind of conspiracy between MP and BB for MP to wait to do what BB does. Blows the idea of secrecy out of the water.
On the Giants side:
Eli is aging with no heir apparent
BB would have to break in all new coordinators and coaches in NY.
BB has no lieutenants in NY front office.
BB already has complete control in New England.
Cant get into details. Pats are prepared with a plan B. (Originally thought to be MP actually is JM).
To your points: The Giants situation is not better than the Pats. However, it would represent a change and a chance to start over. Best landing spot if he moves on from Pats.
Some pieces to work with
BB likes Mara and Gettleman
Some good players on the roster
The #2 pick in the draft
Not to sound rude, but are you considered an "asshat"? Secondly, how confident are you in this prediction?
on the flip side, some love the limelight of NYC and would sprint here!
if you don't think this is a factor, keep putting your head in the sand. the giants will either be a magnet or a repellent.
now on the football end, you would think working for the mara's and tisch's would be a great situation, and it is. but the media makes it the absolute worst place to coach and just grinds on you, especially if you aren't from the area.
as far as NE coaches, i bet they would love to stick it to the giants since losing to them twice in the super bowl, otherwise they would be a super dynasty. yeah, there easily could be something personal here.
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In comment 13788171 giantsfaninphilly said:
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In comment 13788031 Reale01 said:
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BB to Giants! Pats prefer McDaniel over MP. MP to Lions. Shurmer is fallback option for Giants.
This is an update to what I said a couple days ago:
Belichick may return.
He is still trying to mend the fences in NE and is focused on the playoffs. Secrecy in NE is absolute - as it was when Parcells left. If BB comes to the Giants MP will coach the Pats. Otherwise, if BB stays MP will coach the Giants. Hard to give odds at this point. McDaniel will go elsewhere.
BB decision factors
Relationship with Kraft is worse than it was
Relationship with Brady is worse than it was
Brady is aging with no heir apparent
Would have to break in two new coordinators in 2018
May lose other coaches as well to Patricia and McDaniel
Has lost some key lieutenants in the front office
Giants job is open THIS year
Better to leave one year too early than one year too late
This sounds bizarre.
In order for MP to coach the Pats this means there has to be some kind of conspiracy between MP and BB for MP to wait to do what BB does. Blows the idea of secrecy out of the water.
On the Giants side:
Eli is aging with no heir apparent
BB would have to break in all new coordinators and coaches in NY.
BB has no lieutenants in NY front office.
BB already has complete control in New England.
Cant get into details. Pats are prepared with a plan B. (Originally thought to be MP actually is JM).
To your points: The Giants situation is not better than the Pats. However, it would represent a change and a chance to start over. Best landing spot if he moves on from Pats.
Some pieces to work with
BB likes Mara and Gettleman
Some good players on the roster
The #2 pick in the draft
Not to sound rude, but are you considered an "asshat"? Secondly, how confident are you in this prediction?
A "basshat" the info sounds fishy and too good to be true. HOWEVER - I did hear something and nothing that has happened to date has made me think its wrong. At any rate I did not hear it was a done deal only that it did have "legs".