Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter)
1/14/18, 9:09 AM
Patriots defensive coordinator Matt Patricia is likely to become the Detroit Lions next head coach, league sources told ESPN. More on Sunday NFL Countdown.
BB's tree not always successful McD got canned before, Crennel seems better suited at DC, Hufnagel came here as OC and was a disaster.
Such lazy analysis...
I wanted Patricia but wont lose sleep over not getting him as theres pros to each of the candidates we interviewed. But this notion that Pats cooridinators are only good because of BB is laughable.
Fair enough, but there's no evidence that they're good for any other reason, because they haven't been good at the NFL level when they're apart from BB.
Its still shit logic. Patricia didnt come on a conveyor belt as the next guy in line to just parrot BB and be his drone. Hes actuall transformed a portion of how the Pats operate and has been running the defense for 6 years. Hes as qualified as anyone to get a HC gig. Its also quite possible in his older age that BB leans on his coordinators more - just speculation but its plausible.
In any case, it is what it is at this point.
Dismissing a historical trend as "shit logic" is the very definition of "shit logic."
BB's tree not always successful McD got canned before, Crennel seems better suited at DC, Hufnagel came here as OC and was a disaster.
Such lazy analysis...
I wanted Patricia but wont lose sleep over not getting him as theres pros to each of the candidates we interviewed. But this notion that Pats cooridinators are only good because of BB is laughable.
Fair enough, but there's no evidence that they're good for any other reason, because they haven't been good at the NFL level when they're apart from BB.
Its still shit logic. Patricia didnt come on a conveyor belt as the next guy in line to just parrot BB and be his drone. Hes actuall transformed a portion of how the Pats operate and has been running the defense for 6 years. Hes as qualified as anyone to get a HC gig. Its also quite possible in his older age that BB leans on his coordinators more - just speculation but its plausible.
In any case, it is what it is at this point.
Dismissing a historical trend as "shit logic" is the very definition of "shit logic."
You can associate it but not all these candidates are the same nor had the same which is why its shit logic to solely point to it as a reason it wont work.
Mangini was a coordinator for 1 year with the Pats an hen went to 2 shit franchises in NYJ and Cleveland. Crennel, 4 years as SC then went to the Browns.
McDaniels is the only guy you can quote and Id chalk it up to him being too young at 33/34 with too much bravado and it backfired.
I guess the point I was trying to make, perhaps just thinking out loud, lot of uncertainty with this huge decision, people don't like uncertainty so the Coordinators from BB may help reduce or ease that uncertainty.
Put another way - If you took defensive stats of Pats under Patricia and placed them under the name of any other DC in the league - would we be clamoring as loudly for them?
Art Stapleton (@art_stapleton)
1/14/18, 9:14 AM
Which is why the Giants were extremely hesitant to declare Patricia as the favorite. Said that all along.
Now ESPN says he will choose the Lions. NYG were prepared for this, but it's a blow
Honestly I had a bad feeling about both Patricia and Wilks for one reason. There are not a lot of good offensive coaches left on the market for them to fill their staffs out with, and I am not confident in them to handle the offensive side all by themselves. On the defensive side, I feel like there are more decent coaching candidates left. Worst case, we can bring in John Fox as the DC, and Spags can coach the Linebackers, etc. We can build a decent defensive staff for an offensive coach such as Shurmur or McDaniels. As of now, McDaniels is my slight favorite. But Shurmur has a good resume as well.
Giants just may be left at the alter here. McDaniels seems intent on Indy so that leaves Shurmur. And Arizona may be the front runner there.
Hello, Mr. Wilks? Hey man, that stuff about you not being a candidate? Hey, we were just kidding!
Would be a huge blow to the franchise and how theyre perceived throughout the league. Glad Mara was adamant in hiring Gettleman so quickly in part to get a leg up on the HC search.
So you're killing them for firing Reese and hiring gettleman swiftly?
You left out a big reason maybe the biggest. Since 2011 one of the Owners is the SR VP of Player Evaluation. He can never be fired, he can never be pushed aside in a power play. He's an OWNER. If you're a prospective coach and you look at the Giants player evaluation the past 5 to 6 years you want to come work for that guy?
Maybe this will motivate the Giants to make a decision
McDaniels is my 2nd choice- because of how creative he is offensively and seems be a strong play caller.
Not a Shurmur fan would take Wilks over him.
I get thinking things through but I feel like there is no sense of urgency.
Make your decision and go for it.
Maybe it is happening behind the scenes but it is obviously not apparent.
of you guys are twisting yourselves into pretzels to defend your point of view. Whether you agree with it or not, whether you like it or not, the Giants have been rejected by Patricia in favor of the Lions. The Giants didn't say no to Patricia. It is also likely that McDaniels is doing the same by choosing Indy. You can spin this anyway you want to make you feel better, but it is what it is.
It is what it is? We don't even know what IT is. Spin what? How do you know the Giants offered the gig to Patricia? Because peter king feels like they did?
Doesn't matter anyway. Giants are just waiting on belichick.
The worst job a coach has in any professional sport is dealing with a beloved aging star that won championship(s) that doesn't realize he is declining and wants to play. Eli got the last the coach and GM fired with the way he played things. If you do not think team Eli did not know exactly what they were doing you are stupid. This may be the NYG but dealing with mess, now, after the shit show, with half fan base delusionally thinking Eli is still the man...Who the fuck would really want this job with other jobs available?
It may be the worst job, but its a job that any coach/manager must be able to do in any sport. If at some point last year, the Giants had quietly brought in Webb to start the second half of some game, do you think there would have been the shitstorm we saw ? Instead MacAdoo publicly throws Eli under the bus and announces that Gino fucking Smith is the starter and that he "gives us the best chance to win". By doing so they have poisoned the well for next year's HC. They know that they are stuck with Eli to start the season. Even if Eli is benched at some point and, God Forbid the next guy struggles, then the new HC is on his way out the door.
Which brings me back to my last post: The Giants HC position is not a desirable one right now. Their best course of action is to keep Spags rather than to gamble on some retread. They can always fire Spags next year.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The love fest for McD and Patricia
BB's tree not always successful McD got canned before, Crennel seems better suited at DC, Hufnagel came here as OC and was a disaster.
Such lazy analysis...
I wanted Patricia but wont lose sleep over not getting him as theres pros to each of the candidates we interviewed. But this notion that Pats cooridinators are only good because of BB is laughable.
Fair enough, but there's no evidence that they're good for any other reason, because they haven't been good at the NFL level when they're apart from BB.
Its still shit logic. Patricia didnt come on a conveyor belt as the next guy in line to just parrot BB and be his drone. Hes actuall transformed a portion of how the Pats operate and has been running the defense for 6 years. Hes as qualified as anyone to get a HC gig. Its also quite possible in his older age that BB leans on his coordinators more - just speculation but its plausible.
In any case, it is what it is at this point.
Dismissing a historical trend as "shit logic" is the very definition of "shit logic."
You can associate it but not all these candidates are the same nor had the same which is why its shit logic to solely point to it as a reason it wont work.
Mangini was a coordinator for 1 year with the Pats an hen went to 2 shit franchises in NYJ and Cleveland. Crennel, 4 years as SC then went to the Browns.
McDaniels is the only guy you can quote and Id chalk it up to him being too young at 33/34 with too much bravado and it backfired.
But go on, tell me more.
You also argued at length about how a control group isn't necessary for qualified data, so you'll have to forgive me if I don't think your definition of "logic" passes muster.
to prove themselves anymore. They need to step out at the right time into a place they feel can work for them. You have to see a roster you can work with and a gm thats fits your plan.
Maybe havimg 35 mil in under performing DE's that dont fit his scheme or a a secondary full of me first players isnt something he wants to ruin his head coaching career.
Even McVay will have a hard time next year because he got so much more out of his team this year and his divison had a down year. Will be hard preased to continue sucess.
The worst job a coach has in any professional sport is dealing with a beloved aging star that won championship(s) that doesn't realize he is declining and wants to play. Eli got the last the coach and GM fired with the way he played things. If you do not think team Eli did not know exactly what they were doing you are stupid. This may be the NYG but dealing with mess, now, after the shit show, with half fan base delusionally thinking Eli is still the man...Who the fuck would really want this job with other jobs available?
It may be the worst job, but its a job that any coach/manager must be able to do in any sport. If at some point last year, the Giants had quietly brought in Webb to start the second half of some game, do you think there would have been the shitstorm we saw ? Instead MacAdoo publicly throws Eli under the bus and announces that Gino fucking Smith is the starter and that he "gives us the best chance to win". By doing so they have poisoned the well for next year's HC. They know that they are stuck with Eli to start the season. Even if Eli is benched at some point and, God Forbid the next guy struggles, then the new HC is on his way out the door.
Which brings me back to my last post: The Giants HC position is not a desirable one right now. Their best course of action is to keep Spags rather than to gamble on some retread. They can always fire Spags next year.
Waste a year on a hack who has already failed on multiple occasions. And this makes sense to you.
you do whatever you want. Its the NFL. Mangini and Crennel failed over a decade ago, thats a lifetime. They failed with 2 absolutely miserable franchises. McDaniels has some success but took on too much and failed at a very young ago.
If thats the definition of everyone under BB fails then I dont know what to tell you.
Shurmur is good with offense and good with quarterbacks. Thats all anyone ever says when talking about him. Theres a good amount of guys in the NFL who are good offensive coordinators and good with quarterbacks. Is this guy HC material? He doesnt inspire much confidence to me when he speaks - just seems like a sleepy personality.
Im sure hes smart and good with offense. We need a HC, however, that is going to be a leader of men for this franchise for the next 8+ seasons. Is Pat Shurmur really this guy? I dont think he is, but I hope to hell im wrong.
RE: LaCanfora seems to be off on a lot of this stuff but...
Shurmur is good with offense and good with quarterbacks. Thats all anyone ever says when talking about him. Theres a good amount of guys in the NFL who are good offensive coordinators and good with quarterbacks. Is this guy HC material? He doesnt inspire much confidence to me when he speaks - just seems like a sleepy personality.
Im sure hes smart and good with offense. We need a HC, however, that is going to be a leader of men for this franchise for the next 8+ seasons. Is Pat Shurmur really this guy? I dont think he is, but I hope to hell im wrong.
Well if it turns out he isn't a leader of men he'll definitely make our future QB a well coached leader of our team lol.
So not for everybody...
And for those who say because of how fans reacted to Eli benching...?
To refresh your memory was not only fans but ex-players, both Giant and non-giant as well as personnel experts...
So if MP's decision based on fear of backlash from moving on from Eli than he never would last here anyway...
McDaniels
Crennel
Mangini
Hufnagel
1) Personnel process (POtential HC's view of it)
2) Media circus
3) Last HC didn't last a season (contrary to history and popular belief - Giants will cut losses early)
4) Quality of family life
5) $$$
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In comment 13787093 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 13787076 bc4life said:
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ia based on their umbilical connection to BB.
BB's tree not always successful McD got canned before, Crennel seems better suited at DC, Hufnagel came here as OC and was a disaster.
Such lazy analysis...
I wanted Patricia but wont lose sleep over not getting him as theres pros to each of the candidates we interviewed. But this notion that Pats cooridinators are only good because of BB is laughable.
Fair enough, but there's no evidence that they're good for any other reason, because they haven't been good at the NFL level when they're apart from BB.
Its still shit logic. Patricia didnt come on a conveyor belt as the next guy in line to just parrot BB and be his drone. Hes actuall transformed a portion of how the Pats operate and has been running the defense for 6 years. Hes as qualified as anyone to get a HC gig. Its also quite possible in his older age that BB leans on his coordinators more - just speculation but its plausible.
In any case, it is what it is at this point.
Dismissing a historical trend as "shit logic" is the very definition of "shit logic."
If Minnesota meets anyone in the Super Bowl. The Patriots are now irrelevant except for the BB pipe dream.
(blank you)! (Part II)
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In comment 13787122 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13787093 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 13787076 bc4life said:
Quote:
ia based on their umbilical connection to BB.
BB's tree not always successful McD got canned before, Crennel seems better suited at DC, Hufnagel came here as OC and was a disaster.
Such lazy analysis...
I wanted Patricia but wont lose sleep over not getting him as theres pros to each of the candidates we interviewed. But this notion that Pats cooridinators are only good because of BB is laughable.
Fair enough, but there's no evidence that they're good for any other reason, because they haven't been good at the NFL level when they're apart from BB.
Its still shit logic. Patricia didnt come on a conveyor belt as the next guy in line to just parrot BB and be his drone. Hes actuall transformed a portion of how the Pats operate and has been running the defense for 6 years. Hes as qualified as anyone to get a HC gig. Its also quite possible in his older age that BB leans on his coordinators more - just speculation but its plausible.
In any case, it is what it is at this point.
Dismissing a historical trend as "shit logic" is the very definition of "shit logic."
You can associate it but not all these candidates are the same nor had the same which is why its shit logic to solely point to it as a reason it wont work.
Mangini was a coordinator for 1 year with the Pats an hen went to 2 shit franchises in NYJ and Cleveland. Crennel, 4 years as SC then went to the Browns.
McDaniels is the only guy you can quote and Id chalk it up to him being too young at 33/34 with too much bravado and it backfired.
But go on, tell me more.
this place would shutdown lol
Put another way - If you took defensive stats of Pats under Patricia and placed them under the name of any other DC in the league - would we be clamoring as loudly for them?
1/14/18, 9:14 AM
Which is why the Giants were extremely hesitant to declare Patricia as the favorite. Said that all along.
Now ESPN says he will choose the Lions. NYG were prepared for this, but it's a blow
Honestly I had a bad feeling about both Patricia and Wilks for one reason. There are not a lot of good offensive coaches left on the market for them to fill their staffs out with, and I am not confident in them to handle the offensive side all by themselves. On the defensive side, I feel like there are more decent coaching candidates left. Worst case, we can bring in John Fox as the DC, and Spags can coach the Linebackers, etc. We can build a decent defensive staff for an offensive coach such as Shurmur or McDaniels. As of now, McDaniels is my slight favorite. But Shurmur has a good resume as well.
And theres uncertainty with any candidate, thats my other point. You can find something you dont like about any of them.
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Giants just may be left at the alter here. McDaniels seems intent on Indy so that leaves Shurmur. And Arizona may be the front runner there.
Hello, Mr. Wilks? Hey man, that stuff about you not being a candidate? Hey, we were just kidding!
Would be a huge blow to the franchise and how theyre perceived throughout the league. Glad Mara was adamant in hiring Gettleman so quickly in part to get a leg up on the HC search.
So you're killing them for firing Reese and hiring gettleman swiftly?
I wanted Patricia but time to turn the page.
McDaniels is my 2nd choice- because of how creative he is offensively and seems be a strong play caller.
Not a Shurmur fan would take Wilks over him.
I get thinking things through but I feel like there is no sense of urgency.
Make your decision and go for it.
Maybe it is happening behind the scenes but it is obviously not apparent.
Lol oh really. Left at the alter by a guy that has NO head coaching experience?
Quote:
This is us left at the alter.
Lol oh really. Left at the alter by a guy that has NO head coaching experience?
Yep.
At the VP level, how directly involved are you in the scouting and decision making re: selection of the players? I don't know.
It is what it is? We don't even know what IT is. Spin what? How do you know the Giants offered the gig to Patricia? Because peter king feels like they did?
Doesn't matter anyway. Giants are just waiting on belichick.
Which brings me back to my last post: The Giants HC position is not a desirable one right now. Their best course of action is to keep Spags rather than to gamble on some retread. They can always fire Spags next year.
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In comment 13787134 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 13787122 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13787093 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 13787076 bc4life said:
Quote:
ia based on their umbilical connection to BB.
BB's tree not always successful McD got canned before, Crennel seems better suited at DC, Hufnagel came here as OC and was a disaster.
Such lazy analysis...
I wanted Patricia but wont lose sleep over not getting him as theres pros to each of the candidates we interviewed. But this notion that Pats cooridinators are only good because of BB is laughable.
Fair enough, but there's no evidence that they're good for any other reason, because they haven't been good at the NFL level when they're apart from BB.
Its still shit logic. Patricia didnt come on a conveyor belt as the next guy in line to just parrot BB and be his drone. Hes actuall transformed a portion of how the Pats operate and has been running the defense for 6 years. Hes as qualified as anyone to get a HC gig. Its also quite possible in his older age that BB leans on his coordinators more - just speculation but its plausible.
In any case, it is what it is at this point.
Dismissing a historical trend as "shit logic" is the very definition of "shit logic."
You can associate it but not all these candidates are the same nor had the same which is why its shit logic to solely point to it as a reason it wont work.
Mangini was a coordinator for 1 year with the Pats an hen went to 2 shit franchises in NYJ and Cleveland. Crennel, 4 years as SC then went to the Browns.
McDaniels is the only guy you can quote and Id chalk it up to him being too young at 33/34 with too much bravado and it backfired.
But go on, tell me more.
You also argued at length about how a control group isn't necessary for qualified data, so you'll have to forgive me if I don't think your definition of "logic" passes muster.
Maybe havimg 35 mil in under performing DE's that dont fit his scheme or a a secondary full of me first players isnt something he wants to ruin his head coaching career.
Even McVay will have a hard time next year because he got so much more out of his team this year and his divison had a down year. Will be hard preased to continue sucess.
Quote:
The worst job a coach has in any professional sport is dealing with a beloved aging star that won championship(s) that doesn't realize he is declining and wants to play. Eli got the last the coach and GM fired with the way he played things. If you do not think team Eli did not know exactly what they were doing you are stupid. This may be the NYG but dealing with mess, now, after the shit show, with half fan base delusionally thinking Eli is still the man...Who the fuck would really want this job with other jobs available?
It may be the worst job, but its a job that any coach/manager must be able to do in any sport. If at some point last year, the Giants had quietly brought in Webb to start the second half of some game, do you think there would have been the shitstorm we saw ? Instead MacAdoo publicly throws Eli under the bus and announces that Gino fucking Smith is the starter and that he "gives us the best chance to win". By doing so they have poisoned the well for next year's HC. They know that they are stuck with Eli to start the season. Even if Eli is benched at some point and, God Forbid the next guy struggles, then the new HC is on his way out the door.
Which brings me back to my last post: The Giants HC position is not a desirable one right now. Their best course of action is to keep Spags rather than to gamble on some retread. They can always fire Spags next year.
My views now are tainted by hitdog's e-mail to me. It's up to him whether he wants to share or not.
If thats the definition of everyone under BB fails then I dont know what to tell you.
Let's hope so.
My guy since day one. Has had success everywhere (Cleveland gets an asterisk)
If we draft a QB he's been successful with each and every QB he's worked with. We'll have a fun offense.
Go get em' Gettleman! if the Vikings lose I guess we'll know by this week if it's him.
Jason La Canfora
Verified account @JasonLaCanfora
2h2 hours ago
If the Vikes lose tonight the NYG and Cards will pounce on Shurmur. He'll be hired by Monday. I'd give the advantage to NYG in that scenario
Im sure hes smart and good with offense. We need a HC, however, that is going to be a leader of men for this franchise for the next 8+ seasons. Is Pat Shurmur really this guy? I dont think he is, but I hope to hell im wrong.
Jason La Canfora
Verified account @JasonLaCanfora
2h2 hours ago
If the Vikes lose tonight the NYG and Cards will pounce on Shurmur. He'll be hired by Monday. I'd give the advantage to NYG in that scenario
And Vacchiano says itappears that Shurmur would prefer Arizona. Based on what, I have no idea.
Link - ( New Window )
Im sure hes smart and good with offense. We need a HC, however, that is going to be a leader of men for this franchise for the next 8+ seasons. Is Pat Shurmur really this guy? I dont think he is, but I hope to hell im wrong.
Well if it turns out he isn't a leader of men he'll definitely make our future QB a well coached leader of our team lol.
I get that sense too. But you never know. I said the same thing about Doug Pederson and he just won a playoff game without his QB1.
I think Munchak could fit that bill. But hed have to bring in strong coordinators.