Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter)
1/14/18, 9:09 AM
Patriots defensive coordinator Matt Patricia is likely to become the Detroit Lions next head coach, league sources told ESPN. More on Sunday NFL Countdown.
Shurmur is good with offense and good with quarterbacks. Thats all anyone ever says when talking about him. Theres a good amount of guys in the NFL who are good offensive coordinators and good with quarterbacks. Is this guy HC material? He doesnt inspire much confidence to me when he speaks - just seems like a sleepy personality.
Im sure hes smart and good with offense. We need a HC, however, that is going to be a leader of men for this franchise for the next 8+ seasons. Is Pat Shurmur really this guy? I dont think he is, but I hope to hell im wrong.
Shurmur from reports I have read is all about developing personal relationships with his players. TRULY cares about them and players respond to that bond by playing for him. He isnt a vocal motivator fur sur
you do whatever you want. Its the NFL. Mangini and Crennel failed over a decade ago, thats a lifetime. They failed with 2 absolutely miserable franchises. McDaniels has some success but took on too much and failed at a very young ago.
If thats the definition of everyone under BB fails then I dont know what to tell you.
How many of Belichick's former assistants, including position coaches, even have a record above .500 with another team in the NFL? I'm not even limiting that to coaches that go on to become HCs - any assistants at all that move on from New England.
If you're unwilling to see a trend when it's staring you in the face, I don't know what to tell you.
the Giants beat guys have been absolutely brutal during all of this. Someone mentioned the Raanan thing during the draft where he listed 15 players and not Engram. This feels similar.
you do whatever you want. Its the NFL. Mangini and Crennel failed over a decade ago, thats a lifetime. They failed with 2 absolutely miserable franchises. McDaniels has some success but took on too much and failed at a very young ago.
If thats the definition of everyone under BB fails then I dont know what to tell you.
How many of Belichick's former assistants, including position coaches, even have a record above .500 with another team in the NFL? I'm not even limiting that to coaches that go on to become HCs - any assistants at all that move on from New England.
If you're unwilling to see a trend when it's staring you in the face, I don't know what to tell you.
Bill O'Brien has done very good work in Houston. His carerr record would easily be over 500 if Watson didn't get hurt this year.
the Giants beat guys have been absolutely brutal during all of this. Someone mentioned the Raanan thing during the draft where he listed 15 players and not Engram. This feels similar.
Agree. And in recent years they've been pretty bad. Not just this situation.
BBI doesn't agree on much. But if there's one thing I *think* we can all agree on, is that we all miss Garafolo.
you say hard pass yet plenty of great head coaches in this league were only coordinators for a short time before hired.
You would have missed out on a lot of great coaches if you always had this line of thinking. Coordinator experience does not guarantee success as a head coach. And no, it doesnt mean you have a better chance at succeeding either. It never has and it never will - its a myth.
Romeo Crennel fielded 3 top ten defenses in houston
But at least he's competent. There's been a significant level of incompetence around the Giants for some time now. At least he'll steady things. Can you win a Super Bowl with him as HC? I don't know, but if you asked me to predict that, I'd predict no to be honest about it.
good point - Garafolo has been pretty on the money with the Giants this offseason - he didnt make any definitive statements and always said they are still deliberating, etc. He was right.
you say hard pass yet plenty of great head coaches in this league were only coordinators for a short time before hired.
You would have missed out on a lot of great coaches if you always had this line of thinking. Coordinator experience does not guarantee success as a head coach. And no, it doesnt mean you have a better chance at succeeding either. It never has and it never will - its a myth.
This is going to be a very important hire in Giants history. I think it'd be extremely risky to go with another short-tenured coordinator after the McAdoo fiasco. Some stability is in order, IMO.
the Giants beat guys have been absolutely brutal during all of this. Someone mentioned the Raanan thing during the draft where he listed 15 players and not Engram. This feels similar.
I love Gary Myers going with the flavor of the day coach. McDaniels>Wilks>Belicheck>Patricia. Guy has as much "inside" as posters here.
the Giants beat guys have been absolutely brutal during all of this. Someone mentioned the Raanan thing during the draft where he listed 15 players and not Engram. This feels similar.
I love Gary Myers going with the flavor of the day coach. McDaniels>Wilks>Belicheck>Patricia. Guy has as much "inside" as posters here.
the Giants beat guys have been absolutely brutal during all of this. Someone mentioned the Raanan thing during the draft where he listed 15 players and not Engram. This feels similar.
I love Gary Myers going with the flavor of the day coach. McDaniels>Wilks>Belicheck>Patricia. Guy has as much "inside" as posters here.
Something out there the New Orleans Saints,as I expect them to win however good chance they lose.... Sean Payton might he be in the plans possibly as the secret guy or does he stay there and is there somebody on that staff that we might be interested in?
Waste a year on a hack who has already failed on multiple occasions. And this makes sense to you.
Lets look at that record. In 2008 he inherits a bad defense that starts the year giving up something like 70 points in their first two games. By the end of the year the defense is the best in the NFL with a super bowl ring. In 2009 they again have a playoff caliber defense. Then its off to an HC gig with the worst team in the NFL, the Rams. By his second year they were 7-9, then it all collapsed the third year because they couldn't score. Anybody want to guess who the OC was ? Josh McDaniels. He then takes a DC gig at NO that doesn't go well. Can anybody name a good DC from NO. Then he comes back here. As soon as we got some decent players we once again have a playoff caliber defense, despite having the worst offense in the NFL. I can't say for sure what happened this year, but having an HC that alienated and humiliated his players didn't help.
Something out there the New Orleans Saints,as I expect them to win however good chance they lose.... Sean Payton might he be in the plans possibly as the secret guy or does he stay there and is there somebody on that staff that we might be interested in?
The story before has been that Payton would come here, but the team isn't warm on him allegedly because of personality or off-field things that are unclear.
Jason La Canfora
Verified account @JasonLaCanfora
2h2 hours ago
If the Vikes lose tonight the NYG and Cards will pounce on Shurmur. He'll be hired by Monday. I'd give the advantage to NYG in that scenario
And Vacchiano says itappears that Shurmur would prefer Arizona. Based on what, I have no idea.
The only reason, I can see that is its because he could for sure take a QB like Keenam with him there. Other than that, theyre brutal as far as offensive talent.
this was leaked to Schefter and that it's a bargaining ploy?
Had not. That sounds incredibly crafty of Mara, not sure thats our style😋
Emil - leaked by someone in the Patricia camp
Ahh, gotcha gidie I think that is possible but not convinced its likely. Im very intrigued by what hitdog might know...seems he might have a take worth sharing.
Would not surprise me if the Giants have actually already settled on a candidate and are in negotiations.
Is this ,what does Bellichick do if they win the SB lose three assistants and possibly Brady to retirement,I come up with 2 conclusions B.B. retires.....or
He comes to coach the Giants I think hes in play and I think Sean Payton is in play as well as The others also just my opinion
So fair to say you think McDaniels is still available. Giants are very interested but if they get word that hes on to colts they will move on to Shurmur
you do whatever you want. Its the NFL. Mangini and Crennel failed over a decade ago, thats a lifetime. They failed with 2 absolutely miserable franchises. McDaniels has some success but took on too much and failed at a very young ago.
If thats the definition of everyone under BB fails then I dont know what to tell you.
How many of Belichick's former assistants, including position coaches, even have a record above .500 with another team in the NFL? I'm not even limiting that to coaches that go on to become HCs - any assistants at all that move on from New England.
If you're unwilling to see a trend when it's staring you in the face, I don't know what to tell you.
Bill O'Brien has done very good work in Houston. His carerr record would easily be over 500 if Watson didn't get hurt this year.
But it's not. And that's an incredibly small sample size. Besides, they were 3-4 when Watson got hurt. As a rookie QB, no matter how impressive his play was, there's no guarantee how he would have performed as the league continued to compile tape on him.
The facts are what they are. If O'Brien is the high-water mark of that particular coaching tree, that's not the best place to go picking your next coach. Could it be a coincidence? Absolutely. But in the face of a trend of evidence to the contrary, do you really want to bet on picking the exception?
The guy that I think fits best with Gettleman is Shurmur. Gettleman has a strong personality and is "talketive". Shurmur is a quieter leader and has the experience they are looking for. Patricia would be a good fit too but if he doesn't want to be here good riddance.
you do whatever you want. Its the NFL. Mangini and Crennel failed over a decade ago, thats a lifetime. They failed with 2 absolutely miserable franchises. McDaniels has some success but took on too much and failed at a very young ago.
If thats the definition of everyone under BB fails then I dont know what to tell you.
How many of Belichick's former assistants, including position coaches, even have a record above .500 with another team in the NFL? I'm not even limiting that to coaches that go on to become HCs - any assistants at all that move on from New England.
If you're unwilling to see a trend when it's staring you in the face, I don't know what to tell you.
Bill O'Brien has done very good work in Houston. His carerr record would easily be over 500 if Watson didn't get hurt this year.
But it's not. And that's an incredibly small sample size. Besides, they were 3-4 when Watson got hurt. As a rookie QB, no matter how impressive his play was, there's no guarantee how he would have performed as the league continued to compile tape on him.
The facts are what they are. If O'Brien is the high-water mark of that particular coaching tree, that's not the best place to go picking your next coach. Could it be a coincidence? Absolutely. But in the face of a trend of evidence to the contrary, do you really want to bet on picking the exception?
You can play that game with anyone. Theres a reason why coaching turnover is so high in the NFL at every level. Whats next, critiquing BBs water boys?
you do whatever you want. Its the NFL. Mangini and Crennel failed over a decade ago, thats a lifetime. They failed with 2 absolutely miserable franchises. McDaniels has some success but took on too much and failed at a very young ago.
If thats the definition of everyone under BB fails then I dont know what to tell you.
How many of Belichick's former assistants, including position coaches, even have a record above .500 with another team in the NFL? I'm not even limiting that to coaches that go on to become HCs - any assistants at all that move on from New England.
If you're unwilling to see a trend when it's staring you in the face, I don't know what to tell you.
Bill O'Brien has done very good work in Houston. His carerr record would easily be over 500 if Watson didn't get hurt this year.
But it's not. And that's an incredibly small sample size. Besides, they were 3-4 when Watson got hurt. As a rookie QB, no matter how impressive his play was, there's no guarantee how he would have performed as the league continued to compile tape on him.
The facts are what they are. If O'Brien is the high-water mark of that particular coaching tree, that's not the best place to go picking your next coach. Could it be a coincidence? Absolutely. But in the face of a trend of evidence to the contrary, do you really want to bet on picking the exception?
You can play that game with anyone. Theres a reason why coaching turnover is so high in the NFL at every level. Whats next, critiquing BBs water boys?
Ok, have at it. Show me another coaching tree that has borne less fruit than Belichick's, and tell me which candidate from that tree you'd like to hire.
coaching trees do nothing for me. The NFL is complex and always changing. I hope our GM makes this hire based on a plethora of other factors and not which 70+ year old coach they worked unde.
He played C at Mich State. Maybe the overperformance of the Vikes OL this season is partly Shurmurs doing? This qualification is something we sure could use.
When he was the Rams OC in 2010,, Sam Bradford set the record for most throws without an INT for a rookie and was the NFL offensive rookie of the year.
Shurmur has 4 children and his son starts at QB for Vandy.
He has a very good resume. I see him as a very safe hire with a lot of potential.
that all of these leaks, rumors and speculative stories over the past week all have their genesis from the candidates' agents. Just driving up the price while they can.
BB to Giants! Pats prefer McDaniel over MP. MP to Lions. Shurmer is fallback option for Giants.
This is an update to what I said a couple days ago:
Belichick may return.
He is still trying to mend the fences in NE and is focused on the playoffs. Secrecy in NE is absolute - as it was when Parcells left. If BB comes to the Giants MP will coach the Pats. Otherwise, if BB stays MP will coach the Giants. Hard to give odds at this point. McDaniel will go elsewhere.
BB decision factors
Relationship with Kraft is worse than it was
Relationship with Brady is worse than it was
Brady is aging with no heir apparent
Would have to break in two new coordinators in 2018
May lose other coaches as well to Patricia and McDaniel
Has lost some key lieutenants in the front office
Giants job is open THIS year
Better to leave one year too early than one year too late
BB to Giants! Pats prefer McDaniel over MP. MP to Lions. Shurmer is fallback option for Giants.
This is an update to what I said a couple days ago:
Belichick may return.
He is still trying to mend the fences in NE and is focused on the playoffs. Secrecy in NE is absolute - as it was when Parcells left. If BB comes to the Giants MP will coach the Pats. Otherwise, if BB stays MP will coach the Giants. Hard to give odds at this point. McDaniel will go elsewhere.
BB decision factors
Relationship with Kraft is worse than it was
Relationship with Brady is worse than it was
Brady is aging with no heir apparent
Would have to break in two new coordinators in 2018
May lose other coaches as well to Patricia and McDaniel
Has lost some key lieutenants in the front office
Giants job is open THIS year
Better to leave one year too early than one year too late
Is that you Gary Myers? lol
If Patricia is put off by the current Giants situation, HE'S the pussy
Im sure hes smart and good with offense. We need a HC, however, that is going to be a leader of men for this franchise for the next 8+ seasons. Is Pat Shurmur really this guy? I dont think he is, but I hope to hell im wrong.
Shurmur from reports I have read is all about developing personal relationships with his players. TRULY cares about them and players respond to that bond by playing for him. He isnt a vocal motivator fur sur
If thats the definition of everyone under BB fails then I dont know what to tell you.
How many of Belichick's former assistants, including position coaches, even have a record above .500 with another team in the NFL? I'm not even limiting that to coaches that go on to become HCs - any assistants at all that move on from New England.
If you're unwilling to see a trend when it's staring you in the face, I don't know what to tell you.
Yeah, but he's been a coordinator for one year and never been a HC. Hard pass.
Quote:
you do whatever you want. Its the NFL. Mangini and Crennel failed over a decade ago, thats a lifetime. They failed with 2 absolutely miserable franchises. McDaniels has some success but took on too much and failed at a very young ago.
If thats the definition of everyone under BB fails then I dont know what to tell you.
How many of Belichick's former assistants, including position coaches, even have a record above .500 with another team in the NFL? I'm not even limiting that to coaches that go on to become HCs - any assistants at all that move on from New England.
If you're unwilling to see a trend when it's staring you in the face, I don't know what to tell you.
Bill O'Brien has done very good work in Houston. His carerr record would easily be over 500 if Watson didn't get hurt this year.
Agree. And in recent years they've been pretty bad. Not just this situation.
BBI doesn't agree on much. But if there's one thing I *think* we can all agree on, is that we all miss Garafolo.
You would have missed out on a lot of great coaches if you always had this line of thinking. Coordinator experience does not guarantee success as a head coach. And no, it doesnt mean you have a better chance at succeeding either. It never has and it never will - its a myth.
You would have missed out on a lot of great coaches if you always had this line of thinking. Coordinator experience does not guarantee success as a head coach. And no, it doesnt mean you have a better chance at succeeding either. It never has and it never will - its a myth.
This is going to be a very important hire in Giants history. I think it'd be extremely risky to go with another short-tenured coordinator after the McAdoo fiasco. Some stability is in order, IMO.
I love Gary Myers going with the flavor of the day coach. McDaniels>Wilks>Belicheck>Patricia. Guy has as much "inside" as posters here.
Quote:
the Giants beat guys have been absolutely brutal during all of this. Someone mentioned the Raanan thing during the draft where he listed 15 players and not Engram. This feels similar.
I love Gary Myers going with the flavor of the day coach. McDaniels>Wilks>Belicheck>Patricia. Guy has as much "inside" as posters here.
Myers is such a joke.
Quote:
and/or a prediction?
Cmon hitdog
My views now are tainted by hitdog's e-mail to me. It's up to him whether he wants to share or not.
Quote:
In comment 13787464 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
the Giants beat guys have been absolutely brutal during all of this. Someone mentioned the Raanan thing during the draft where he listed 15 players and not Engram. This feels similar.
I love Gary Myers going with the flavor of the day coach. McDaniels>Wilks>Belicheck>Patricia. Guy has as much "inside" as posters here.
Myers is such a joke.
True that.
Waste a year on a hack who has already failed on multiple occasions. And this makes sense to you.
The story before has been that Payton would come here, but the team isn't warm on him allegedly because of personality or off-field things that are unclear.
and/or a prediction?
My views now are tainted by hitdog's e-mail to me. It's up to him whether he wants to share or not.
So Eric- are you happy, sad, mad, bad or glad after this email?
Quote:
Jason La Canfora
Verified account @JasonLaCanfora
2h2 hours ago
If the Vikes lose tonight the NYG and Cards will pounce on Shurmur. He'll be hired by Monday. I'd give the advantage to NYG in that scenario
And Vacchiano says itappears that Shurmur would prefer Arizona. Based on what, I have no idea.
The only reason, I can see that is its because he could for sure take a QB like Keenam with him there. Other than that, theyre brutal as far as offensive talent.
Quote:
In comment 13787135 gidiefor said:
Quote:
this was leaked to Schefter and that it's a bargaining ploy?
Had not. That sounds incredibly crafty of Mara, not sure thats our style😋
Emil - leaked by someone in the Patricia camp
Ahh, gotcha gidie I think that is possible but not convinced its likely. Im very intrigued by what hitdog might know...seems he might have a take worth sharing.
Would not surprise me if the Giants have actually already settled on a candidate and are in negotiations.
I posted on another thread to not rule out someone- I stick with that.
Full disclosure I have no clue on the schurmur side (meaning if hes hired I have no clue and if hes not I have no clue)
He comes to coach the Giants I think hes in play and I think Sean Payton is in play as well as The others also just my opinion
So fair to say you think McDaniels is still available. Giants are very interested but if they get word that hes on to colts they will move on to Shurmur
Quote:
In comment 13787427 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
you do whatever you want. Its the NFL. Mangini and Crennel failed over a decade ago, thats a lifetime. They failed with 2 absolutely miserable franchises. McDaniels has some success but took on too much and failed at a very young ago.
If thats the definition of everyone under BB fails then I dont know what to tell you.
How many of Belichick's former assistants, including position coaches, even have a record above .500 with another team in the NFL? I'm not even limiting that to coaches that go on to become HCs - any assistants at all that move on from New England.
If you're unwilling to see a trend when it's staring you in the face, I don't know what to tell you.
Bill O'Brien has done very good work in Houston. His carerr record would easily be over 500 if Watson didn't get hurt this year.
But it's not. And that's an incredibly small sample size. Besides, they were 3-4 when Watson got hurt. As a rookie QB, no matter how impressive his play was, there's no guarantee how he would have performed as the league continued to compile tape on him.
The facts are what they are. If O'Brien is the high-water mark of that particular coaching tree, that's not the best place to go picking your next coach. Could it be a coincidence? Absolutely. But in the face of a trend of evidence to the contrary, do you really want to bet on picking the exception?
Could you shoot me an email? id like to run something by you
abiancaniello@gmail.com
Quote:
In comment 13787454 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13787427 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
you do whatever you want. Its the NFL. Mangini and Crennel failed over a decade ago, thats a lifetime. They failed with 2 absolutely miserable franchises. McDaniels has some success but took on too much and failed at a very young ago.
If thats the definition of everyone under BB fails then I dont know what to tell you.
How many of Belichick's former assistants, including position coaches, even have a record above .500 with another team in the NFL? I'm not even limiting that to coaches that go on to become HCs - any assistants at all that move on from New England.
If you're unwilling to see a trend when it's staring you in the face, I don't know what to tell you.
Bill O'Brien has done very good work in Houston. His carerr record would easily be over 500 if Watson didn't get hurt this year.
But it's not. And that's an incredibly small sample size. Besides, they were 3-4 when Watson got hurt. As a rookie QB, no matter how impressive his play was, there's no guarantee how he would have performed as the league continued to compile tape on him.
The facts are what they are. If O'Brien is the high-water mark of that particular coaching tree, that's not the best place to go picking your next coach. Could it be a coincidence? Absolutely. But in the face of a trend of evidence to the contrary, do you really want to bet on picking the exception?
You can play that game with anyone. Theres a reason why coaching turnover is so high in the NFL at every level. Whats next, critiquing BBs water boys?
Quote:
In comment 13787465 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13787454 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13787427 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
you do whatever you want. Its the NFL. Mangini and Crennel failed over a decade ago, thats a lifetime. They failed with 2 absolutely miserable franchises. McDaniels has some success but took on too much and failed at a very young ago.
If thats the definition of everyone under BB fails then I dont know what to tell you.
How many of Belichick's former assistants, including position coaches, even have a record above .500 with another team in the NFL? I'm not even limiting that to coaches that go on to become HCs - any assistants at all that move on from New England.
If you're unwilling to see a trend when it's staring you in the face, I don't know what to tell you.
Bill O'Brien has done very good work in Houston. His carerr record would easily be over 500 if Watson didn't get hurt this year.
But it's not. And that's an incredibly small sample size. Besides, they were 3-4 when Watson got hurt. As a rookie QB, no matter how impressive his play was, there's no guarantee how he would have performed as the league continued to compile tape on him.
The facts are what they are. If O'Brien is the high-water mark of that particular coaching tree, that's not the best place to go picking your next coach. Could it be a coincidence? Absolutely. But in the face of a trend of evidence to the contrary, do you really want to bet on picking the exception?
You can play that game with anyone. Theres a reason why coaching turnover is so high in the NFL at every level. Whats next, critiquing BBs water boys?
Ok, have at it. Show me another coaching tree that has borne less fruit than Belichick's, and tell me which candidate from that tree you'd like to hire.
Dallas LB coach Matt Eberflus is the word on his choice of DC.
When he was the Rams OC in 2010,, Sam Bradford set the record for most throws without an INT for a rookie and was the NFL offensive rookie of the year.
Shurmur has 4 children and his son starts at QB for Vandy.
He has a very good resume. I see him as a very safe hire with a lot of potential.
Nope!
This is an update to what I said a couple days ago:
Belichick may return.
He is still trying to mend the fences in NE and is focused on the playoffs. Secrecy in NE is absolute - as it was when Parcells left. If BB comes to the Giants MP will coach the Pats. Otherwise, if BB stays MP will coach the Giants. Hard to give odds at this point. McDaniel will go elsewhere.
BB decision factors
Relationship with Kraft is worse than it was
Relationship with Brady is worse than it was
Brady is aging with no heir apparent
Would have to break in two new coordinators in 2018
May lose other coaches as well to Patricia and McDaniel
Has lost some key lieutenants in the front office
Giants job is open THIS year
Better to leave one year too early than one year too late
This is an update to what I said a couple days ago:
Belichick may return.
He is still trying to mend the fences in NE and is focused on the playoffs. Secrecy in NE is absolute - as it was when Parcells left. If BB comes to the Giants MP will coach the Pats. Otherwise, if BB stays MP will coach the Giants. Hard to give odds at this point. McDaniel will go elsewhere.
BB decision factors
Relationship with Kraft is worse than it was
Relationship with Brady is worse than it was
Brady is aging with no heir apparent
Would have to break in two new coordinators in 2018
May lose other coaches as well to Patricia and McDaniel
Has lost some key lieutenants in the front office
Giants job is open THIS year
Better to leave one year too early than one year too late
Is that you Gary Myers? lol
b. We don't need someone who's nervous about the NYC media.
It's possible that the Giants DIDN'T make him an offer, and that's why he continued interviewing.
b. We don't need someone who's nervous about the NYC media.
It's possible that the Giants DIDN'T make him an offer, and that's why he continued interviewing.
Continued interviewing? How so?
Continued interviewing? How so?
I thought he went to Detroit after meeting with the Giants.