One thing to note is that Bradford, Keenum, and Bridgewater are all UFAs after this season. If the Giants aren't interested in a QB at #2, I wonder if they bring in one of those guys to battle Eli in 2018 and eventually take over.
I liked most of the candidates each for different reasons. We will be moving on from Eli soon and hes a good coach to have during the transition to whoever it is.
about his staff. Don't want all the best coaches gone. I think he's going to need a strong DC, and hopefully has an OC who isn't learning the offense on the job (like McAdoo did with Sully).
Furthermore the position coaches can make all the difference, especially on a team with a lot of internal strife/locker room issues like this one. We need strong leaders for each position group.
To me the biggest question marks about a guy like Shurmur isn't can he lead the organization, but can he assemble the talent around him to have a world-class coaching staff.
but I so want this locked up. He is the guy I want.
Vikes win and it delays the hiring and the angst on BBI continues. Vikes lose, Giants have a new coach with a most recent record of losing to the Eagles.
flashed an alert for "Breaking News" on my phone just now, so all the media "sources" are "reporting it". I think he's the best fit, for what they need and where they are. I also think his personality will play off of Gettleman well too.
about his staff. Don't want all the best coaches gone. I think he's going to need a strong DC, and hopefully has an OC who isn't learning the offense on the job (like McAdoo did with Sully).
Furthermore the position coaches can make all the difference, especially on a team with a lot of internal strife/locker room issues like this one. We need strong leaders for each position group.
To me the biggest question marks about a guy like Shurmur isn't can he lead the organization, but can he assemble the talent around him to have a world-class coaching staff.
selection kinda indicates the Giants decision to grab a shiny young QB with their pick.
or maybe he convinced the giants he could with with Eli and groom Webb...since he groomed keenum. And then the giants can trade down and build there trenches.
flashed an alert for "Breaking News" on my phone just now, so all the media "sources" are "reporting it". I think he's the best fit, for what they need and where they are. I also think his personality will play off of Gettleman well too.
Yep, Ian was just on NFL Network and confirmed that Shurmur is the Giants top choice and NY is Shurmur's top choice. Made it sound like it is just a formality to make an official offer/acceptance once the Vikings season is over.
I wasn't happy with the McAdoo hiring and this feels like it's only slightly better than the Mac announcement. Even Wilks feels like he'd be a better fit for this team personality wise but I guess we'll see.
And they're definitely going Rosen at 2 if this is true.
IMO, McDaniels was never a top choice. He might have been in the mix, but Ian has been linking Josh and Indy for some time. There were a few asshats that had indicated that McDaniels was never one of the top finalists. Many on BBI inferred based on yesterday's reports that it was Josh, but no one confirmed what was told to them. Those that did say that Josh was not in consideration were clear.
Shurmur has shown adapatability across multiple fronts
something Belicheck is lauded for. He has HC experience so he has been through the first round of painful learning. He will be drafting a QB to groom to mold and develop. He has coached in the NFC East. This is exciting stuff!
We'll see how he fares as a HC, we really don't know how any of these candidates are in that area, but the upgrade from the Mickey Mouse offense we've been running to what Shurmur has done is huge.
The Shurm is widely respected, has HC experience and is a high floor/ high cieling selection. The other candidates each had significant risks associated with them.
Only negative is Cleveland and you can easily spin that as positive. He has had offensive success everywhere hes been. Hes a QB whisperer. He has Case Keenum playing out of his mind behind a revamped OL. He is reportedly a calm collected coach who players gravitate towards. There is a lot to like here.
I was all in on Wilks because I thought he was a leader. If Schurmur checks that block then Im all for the hire.
For all the bitching about not getting their guy..
something Belicheck is lauded for. He has HC experience so he has been through the first round of painful learning. He will be drafting a QB to groom to mold and develop. He has coached in the NFC East. This is exciting stuff!
Top choice after
SHO'NUFF : 2:46 pm : link : reply
all the other top choices went elsewhere?
What other top choices?? Wasn't Wilks supposedly a top choice? Where the fuck did he go?
As early as 10 days ago, Shurmur was listed higher than even McDaniels on the radar.
The way i look at it only possibly Patricia was a guy the Giants might have wanted that isn't here. This whole process has been a clusterfuck - not on the giants side, but on the fans take's.
and I believe early in the process one of the beat writers claimed they were looking to hire an offensive coach to fix the offense. I think McDaniels and Shurmur were the choices all along. Which one did they covet the most... we'll probably never know they might have been pretty even.
lol - former Giants WR James Jones doesnt like Shurmur (NFLN)
and I believe early in the process one of the beat writers claimed they were looking to hire an offensive coach to fix the offense. I think McDaniels and Shurmur were the choices all along. Which one did they covet the most... we'll probably never know they might have been pretty even.
Not just that but having a track record with developing a QB since that is near the top of the list to take us into the future.
RE: lol - former Giants WR James Jones doesnt like Shurmur (NFLN)
for Shurmur is whether he's enough of a leader to take control of OBJ and fix this locker room. There's litte doubt that he'll do a good job with the #2 pick but we need a strong coach who will bring this team together. As I said earlier in the thread I definitely have my reservations about whether Shurmur is the leader of men type. Really hope he is.
LOL @ "Former NYG reciever" in front of James Jones..
for Shurmur is whether he's enough of a leader to take control of OBJ and fix this locker room. There's litte doubt that he'll do a good job with the #2 pick but we need a strong coach who will bring this team together. As I said earlier in the thread I definitely have my reservations about whether Shurmur is the leader of men type. Really hope he is.
LOL, this team has about 500 bigger problems than Beckham's behavior right now.
I hope he is totally onboard with "run the ball, stop the run, rush the passer".
I think there's been a terrible disconnect over the past 5 years between GM and HC in regards to personnel.
I don't think Reese provided Coughlin with the players Coughlin wanted. Coughlin was a "run the ball, stop the run, rush the passer" kind of guy, and the Giants ended up with personnel that couldn't achieve those things.
McAdoo just sucked, but I don't think he got the players he wanted either.
for Shurmur is whether he's enough of a leader to take control of OBJ and fix this locker room. There's litte doubt that he'll do a good job with the #2 pick but we need a strong coach who will bring this team together. As I said earlier in the thread I definitely have my reservations about whether Shurmur is the leader of men type. Really hope he is.
LOL, this team has about 500 bigger problems than Beckham's behavior right now.
That's not what I said. We need a coach who can control OBJ (McAdoo surely could not) AND fix this locker room. Fixing this broken locker room and leading these men is probably the #1 thing that needs fixing with this team right now.
RE: RE: Shurmur has shown adapatability across multiple fronts
something Belicheck is lauded for. He has HC experience so he has been through the first round of painful learning. He will be drafting a QB to groom to mold and develop. He has coached in the NFC East. This is exciting stuff!
This is huge in my book.
Also I think Webb gets a long look from Shurmer.
This. He's had success running Chip Kelly's uptempo horizontal style, as well as a ground and pound power spread in Minnesota. One of the few coaches to successfully marry some of the newer college trends with the pro game. And he actually adapts his offense to the talent he has on the roster, putting his QBs in the best position to succeed, a wild concept around these parts lately.
The fact that McAdoo wanted to cut Hart every week but Reese
wouldn't go for it certainly helped to create the shitty locker room we had last year. That WILL NOT happen with DG. Guys who can't be team players will be gone, imho. That helps any coach.
So is this the DOOMS DAY Scenario that so many on here
Anybody who knows offensive FB will have a lot to compare notes with in ELI. Smart move would be too keep Spags, who he knows. Talented football guy all the way,. Grew up in the game. Let DG do the player selection in the draft and FA and we could be back quick. MO
i like Shurm...think he is going to be good for us. i now expect a QB at 2. unless he wants to ride eli and take barkley at 2 to improve tge run game, he knows it has been huge for him this year in minny
If he's instrumental in drafting either Barkley or Josh Allen
for Shurmur is whether he's enough of a leader to take control of OBJ and fix this locker room. There's litte doubt that he'll do a good job with the #2 pick but we need a strong coach who will bring this team together. As I said earlier in the thread I definitely have my reservations about whether Shurmur is the leader of men type. Really hope he is.
LOL, this team has about 500 bigger problems than Beckham's behavior right now.
That's not what I said. We need a coach who can control OBJ (McAdoo surely could not) AND fix this locker room. Fixing this broken locker room and leading these men is probably the #1 thing that needs fixing with this team right now.
Winning fixes locker rooms. They were all good soldiers at 11-5
No disputing that. Still, this smells a lot like yet another safety blanket pick by John Mara.
For all the apologizing thats being done for Shurmurs stint in Cleveland, he still brings nothing more (in terms of HC experience) than 2 failed seasons. How can he work miracles with Keenum, yet couldnt do the same in Cleveland?
I dont like the Andy Reid connection. I dont like that Philly went with Pederson over him. I dont like speculation that this was done in any way with Eli at the forefront of the thought process.
We are also at least 1 week out from being able to build a staff that hopefully Tom Quinn and Spagnuolo have no part of.
No disputing that. Still, this smells a lot like yet another safety blanket pick by John Mara.
For all the apologizing thats being done for Shurmurs stint in Cleveland, he still brings nothing more (in terms of HC experience) than 2 failed seasons. How can he work miracles with Keenum, yet couldnt do the same in Cleveland?
I dont like the Andy Reid connection. I dont like that Philly went with Pederson over him. I dont like speculation that this was done in any way with Eli at the forefront of the thought process.
We are also at least 1 week out from being able to build a staff that hopefully Tom Quinn and Spagnuolo have no part of.
you contradict yourself. its either a risky pick or a safe pick....
thatbbeing said i think its a good choice based on whats out there
No disputing that. Still, this smells a lot like yet another safety blanket pick by John Mara.
For all the apologizing thats being done for Shurmurs stint in Cleveland, he still brings nothing more (in terms of HC experience) than 2 failed seasons. How can he work miracles with Keenum, yet couldnt do the same in Cleveland?
Which do you prefer - failed stint as a coach or zero head coaching experience? Because those were our options.
No disputing that. Still, this smells a lot like yet another safety blanket pick by John Mara.
For all the apologizing thats being done for Shurmurs stint in Cleveland, he still brings nothing more (in terms of HC experience) than 2 failed seasons. How can he work miracles with Keenum, yet couldnt do the same in Cleveland?
Which do you prefer - failed stint as a coach or zero head coaching experience? Because those were our options.
none..most that want to complain dont have an alternative.
Again, look at the players Shurmur had in Cleveland
How much better did you expect his record to be with Brandon Weeden and Colt McCoy as his QB's?
Another note on his Cleveland stint. His first season was the lockout shortened season. His second season ended with an ownership change. If there's a no-win situation....that's it.
bitching about coaches that failed in Cleveland. The list of them is long and theres just no way its all on them. Its a snake bit franchise that shouldnt be used as a barometer of how well someone will do elsewhere.
So yeah, ignore turning a Vikings offense into a highly efficient unit being run effectively by a journeyman QB with limited talent, and just focus on the Browns, because that makes sense.
Mara was spooked by McAdoo. I dont believe he went into this search with an open mind in that respect.
I mean, this is all conjecture, but so what? Are you saying that Mara didn't want to take a risk with someone like Wilks due to McAdoo? Or is there another hidden diamond that we're missing? He's the safe pick, who's the unsafe pick?
Mara was spooked by McAdoo. I dont believe he went into this search with an open mind in that respect.
Or maybe they were just much more impressed with Shurmur's interview and resume than Wilks'.
I'd also point out that it's not really fair to pin this hire on Mara being "spooked" and making the suggestion that he didn't have an open mind about this hire only to turn around and not have an open mind about it as a fan.
To be honest, I think you got attached to Wilks for whatever reason and are now bent out of shape that NYG didn't hire him so you're trying to craft these narratives to somehow prove it was a poor choice or not as good as hiring Wilks.
I just think that prior HC experience is such an asset
its not necessary, but I can't tell you how much better and more prepared I am for a leadership role if I've done it prior, even if that was a failure. Smart, motivated people learn, has he shown he can't evolve?
I'd still like to know what a realistic expectation is for a coach in Cleveland with those players under center.
Was he supposed to finish with a winning record?
Show me any NFL team with a roster as poor as those two Browns rosters that did better than Shurmur did. I'll save you the time and say you probably aren't going to find one.
His stint with the Rams was really bad. First year they went 1-15 and the offense was the worst in the league. Only scored over 20 points once. The following year they went 7-9 but offense was ranked 26th. I have no idea how he got a head coach job off of that. Spags was the head coach too. Can't see them bringing that staff back together.
What he's done this year in Minny is impressive, but what is truly impressive on his resume outside of that? This feels like a terrible hire- can anyone truly say this is a big upgrade over Mcadoo?
I like this hire! Warmed up to McD after yesterdays discussions but always liked Shurm. Although much of my optimism lies in how he git si much out of Case this year as well as how productive Minnys offense was this year. Especially given again Case having to step in for Bradford but also loosing Cook.
I too dont knock his record in Cleveland. Looking forward to his staff choices.
I would have been happy with any of the coaches that they interviewed. I like his experience and I like that he's shown that he can get the best out of offensive personnel. The Giants have done well - first hiring Gettleman and now Shurmur. The next key hire is defensive coordinator.
his time in Cleveland as some type of positive than there are people killing him for it, but ultimately it is what it is.
I would only consider it a positive in the sense of the experience he pulled from it. In terms of what he accomplished or didn't accomplish there and what it says about him as a head coach, I consider it a non-factor. The situation was FUBAR from the start and he wasn't operating under controlled conditions.
We know he's a good developer of talent at least on offense.
He's done well with some average to bad QBs. Head coaching is a different skill set. I'm good with giving him a chance to show he can do that too. At a minimum, he's good to develop our young QB for the next guy.
His stint with the Rams was really bad. First year they went 1-15 and the offense was the worst in the league. Only scored over 20 points once. The following year they went 7-9 but offense was ranked 26th. I have no idea how he got a head coach job off of that. Spags was the head coach too. Can't see them bringing that staff back together.
What he's done this year in Minny is impressive, but what is truly impressive on his resume outside of that? This feels like a terrible hire- can anyone truly say this is a big upgrade over Mcadoo?
He was OC in Philly when they had the 4th, 3rd, and 13th ranked offenses.
His stint with the Rams was really bad. First year they went 1-15 and the offense was the worst in the league. Only scored over 20 points once. The following year they went 7-9 but offense was ranked 26th. I have no idea how he got a head coach job off of that. Spags was the head coach too. Can't see them bringing that staff back together.
What he's done this year in Minny is impressive, but what is truly impressive on his resume outside of that? This feels like a terrible hire- can anyone truly say this is a big upgrade over Mcadoo?
The two top 5 offenses he fielded as the OC in PHI when his QB's were Foles, Sanchez and Barkley doesn't impress you?
Of course it's the rumors and rampant speculation that leads to a lot of nonesense. It's very likely he was the # 1 choice all along and the other guys get linked to other teams after the Giants made a decision. McDaniels is too risky when his entire resume is with BB and Brady. Brady is running that offense at the line of scrimmage. He is brilliant. Patricia was very interesting but I'm not sure hiring Bluto was the way to go. This the NY Giants.
His stint with the Rams was really bad. First year they went 1-15 and the offense was the worst in the league. Only scored over 20 points once. The following year they went 7-9 but offense was ranked 26th. I have no idea how he got a head coach job off of that. Spags was the head coach too. Can't see them bringing that staff back together.
What he's done this year in Minny is impressive, but what is truly impressive on his resume outside of that? This feels like a terrible hire- can anyone truly say this is a big upgrade over Mcadoo?
A 32 year old Marc Bulger and Kyle Boller with Donnie Avery as the leading receiver is something you are going to get up in arms about? People must have short memories because St Louis was bad for a long time after the Mike Martz days.
7/8 years ago and completely ignore the massiv success hes having NOW. Same with McDaniels - his time in Denver likely taught him a lot and it happened when he was 33 which was ages ago in NFL years.
to get hired there as they went with Pederson 2 years ago.
So they chose a different guy whos doing well for them and thats a knock on Shurmur? Theres other factors that go into hiring a coach - fit with the GM, play style, salary, etc. theres so many factors that boiling it down to they choose someone else as an argument is lame.
Maybe hell suck as a coach, but I keep hearing about what happened in the past because it fits a narrative but I dont hear anything about him possibly going to the Super Bowl after next weekend with an absolute JAG at QB.
Well, Pederson looks like he was a pretty good hire. It's not like they opted for some guy who has been an awful coach.
He's also from the "dreaded" Andy Reid tree and seems to be doing just fine.
Pedersen had less experience than McAdoo, and he didn't even call plays in Kansas City working for Reid. It goes to show that there's just very little way to know what kind of person or experience is going to work as a head coach.
His stint with the Rams was really bad. First year they went 1-15 and the offense was the worst in the league. Only scored over 20 points once. The following year they went 7-9 but offense was ranked 26th. I have no idea how he got a head coach job off of that. Spags was the head coach too. Can't see them bringing that staff back together.
What he's done this year in Minny is impressive, but what is truly impressive on his resume outside of that? This feels like a terrible hire- can anyone truly say this is a big upgrade over Mcadoo?
The two top 5 offenses he fielded as the OC in PHI when his QB's were Foles, Sanchez and Barkley doesn't impress you?
It sure as hell impressed me.
He didn't even call the plays. That was Chips offense come on.
The Giants was supposed to be a premier job and they are going to come away with Pat Shurmur? What a massive disappoint. He hasn't even put together back to back good years with Minnesota. There has to be better options out there.
His stint with the Rams was really bad. First year they went 1-15 and the offense was the worst in the league. Only scored over 20 points once. The following year they went 7-9 but offense was ranked 26th. I have no idea how he got a head coach job off of that. Spags was the head coach too. Can't see them bringing that staff back together.
What he's done this year in Minny is impressive, but what is truly impressive on his resume outside of that? This feels like a terrible hire- can anyone truly say this is a big upgrade over Mcadoo?
The two top 5 offenses he fielded as the OC in PHI when his QB's were Foles, Sanchez and Barkley doesn't impress you?
It sure as hell impressed me.
He didn't even call the plays. That was Chips offense come on.
The Giants was supposed to be a premier job and they are going to come away with Pat Shurmur? What a massive disappoint. He hasn't even put together back to back good years with Minnesota. There has to be better options out there.
He is one of the top 3 candidates available - who did you want?
Though, if you're going to take a QB at 2 than I doubt you could do much better in terms of working with a young QB than Shurmur, given what's available. So I guess there's that.
His stint with the Rams was really bad. First year they went 1-15 and the offense was the worst in the league. Only scored over 20 points once. The following year they went 7-9 but offense was ranked 26th. I have no idea how he got a head coach job off of that. Spags was the head coach too. Can't see them bringing that staff back together.
What he's done this year in Minny is impressive, but what is truly impressive on his resume outside of that? This feels like a terrible hire- can anyone truly say this is a big upgrade over Mcadoo?
The two top 5 offenses he fielded as the OC in PHI when his QB's were Foles, Sanchez and Barkley doesn't impress you?
It sure as hell impressed me.
He didn't even call the plays. That was Chips offense come on.
The Giants was supposed to be a premier job and they are going to come away with Pat Shurmur? What a massive disappoint. He hasn't even put together back to back good years with Minnesota. There has to be better options out there.
So, he was just standing on the sidelines and getting paid for nothing?
werent a potent offense but it was still efficient. They just didnt have many good players (Diggs and Thielen just started to breakout). Bradford threw for almost 4000 yards with 20 tds to 5 ints. They had Matt Asiata getting a ton of carries.
Hes been pretty damn successful without even a top 20.
His stint with the Rams was really bad. First year they went 1-15 and the offense was the worst in the league. Only scored over 20 points once. The following year they went 7-9 but offense was ranked 26th. I have no idea how he got a head coach job off of that. Spags was the head coach too. Can't see them bringing that staff back together.
What he's done this year in Minny is impressive, but what is truly impressive on his resume outside of that? This feels like a terrible hire- can anyone truly say this is a big upgrade over Mcadoo?
The two top 5 offenses he fielded as the OC in PHI when his QB's were Foles, Sanchez and Barkley doesn't impress you?
It sure as hell impressed me.
He didn't even call the plays. That was Chips offense come on.
The Giants was supposed to be a premier job and they are going to come away with Pat Shurmur? What a massive disappoint. He hasn't even put together back to back good years with Minnesota. There has to be better options out there.
It probably is. But who exactly is out there? They don't appear to be interested in shooting high for a college guy like Shaw or Saban. Who else is out there? I don't trust those NE assistants without BB. two of the final four teams are coached by Doug Peterson and Doug Marrone. Both of which would have pissed the entire board off if they were hired here when McAdoo got the job. lol
Hard to find good coaches but this guy has a lot of good traits
- has HC experience
- good track record with QBs
- comes from a football family
- been around successful coaches
- his offenses have been balanced and successful, overcoming injuries
Who knows how it will work out but I think all of the above are improvements from the last hire if nothing else. I have to assume Gettleman thinks he can command the room and effectively function at that CEO level since he placed such an emphasis on it. Im also glad he didnt just go with a familiar candidate.
Everyone settle down... This is not a done deal...
He's done well with some average to bad QBs. Head coaching is a different skill set. I'm good with giving him a chance to show he can do that too. At a minimum, he's good to develop our young QB for the next guy.
Quote:
He's done well with some average to bad QBs.
That's why you can't say whether or not his hiring indicates anything about whether a QB will be taken with the NYG's first pick.
It is within the realm of possibility at least that the Giant's DON'T intend to take a QB early and will use the pick to shore up the OL and or RB.
In that scenario they need someone to make the most of Eli in the next few years and to develop Webb and any new QB taken in lower rounds.
As you indicated, he did wonders with Case Keenum who went undrafted.
an excellent choice. He's done well with QBs, and his success at prior jobs shows he's ready to be HC of the Giants. I do agree that it increases the chance we take a QB at #2.
ha..I said by end of day...and got shit on for saying so
resume. I like this guy because he has HC experience, and 9-23 isn't bad with that team, and he has done a great job in Minny besides losing the QB, the RB, and rebuilding the OL with all 5 players.
He's not available at the moment. The comments are repetitive and for the most part uninformative. Why don't we put this down for a while -- say until it's possible to have real news?
Nothing about him inspires greatness IMO I am sure there will be a dozen of puff pieces coming out the following weeks in the papers about how great he is but I cant get excited about him. I really wanted a Defensive minded HQ and a different culture coming here instead we get more WCO.
Again, look at the players Shurmur had in Cleveland
How much better did you expect his record to be with Brandon Weeden and Colt McCoy as his QB's?
His skill position players were crap on O. His Oline was decent, but his offense was like 2nd from last in points scored because they couldnt move the football. Id put that more on the GM, who was Holmgren at the time. His Defense their was like 5th in points against, which was exceptional.
Personnel and coordinators will have a say in his success. Its not all on the Head Coach. He apparently blew the Giants away and showed he was prepared and had a good idea of what needs to happen to turn the program around. Thats got to start in the trenches. He knows Olines too, as he was also an Oline coach, as well. Lastly, he knows the NFC East well, which is important.
Im all for this hire. I know hell get a chance, especially if they bring in a new QB. I think they could be competitive next year and thats all you can ask for at this juncture.
What about Patricia's lack of HC experience? We have no idea how he would command the locker room and just because he has an engineering degree in no way guarantees success in running a football team.
Maras missed on BB once already. when the potential next BB is available, you take your best shot, as opposed to playing it safe due to most recent bad experience.
RE: RE: ha..I said by end of day...and got shit on for saying so
People are getting way too hung up on the WCO thing.
Do some reading. Shurmur uses power spread concepts, he's not running a straight WCO.
Eli is also not the long-term QB here, so the fact that WCO concepts didn't work as well with him recently is less relevant.
Too hung up on it? Yes, he's used elements of power spread - but make no mistake, he's a WCO.
I don't want any part of that scheme, here. It has nothing to do with Eli Manning either.
I hope it's OK to not like the hire. I am OK if people like it. I absolutely hated the McAdoo hire too. Both as OC and HC. Not beating my chest, just saying I don't like that scheme in the Northeast from a logistical standpoint. Prefer the style that won the Giants 4 Lombardi's. That's what works here.
This is just personal preference stuff. I'm OK if everyone disagrees.
I don't want any part of that scheme, here. It has nothing to do with Eli Manning either.
I hope it's OK to not like the hire. I am OK if people like it. I absolutely hated the McAdoo hire too. Both as OC and HC. Not beating my chest, just saying I don't like that scheme in the Northeast from a logistical standpoint. Prefer the style that won the Giants 4 Lombardi's. That's what works here.
This is just personal preference stuff. I'm OK if everyone disagrees.
It's fine not to like the hire. This board is meant to create discussion and debate about football. The cons of this place are the posters who degrade those who dare have a differing opinion. You are right that Shurmur uses the WC offense but I believe that he tweaks it to better suit his players. This isn't McAdoo's predictable offense anymore. I am wondering if this hire will make the Giants consider drafting Baker Mayfield as he would be a very good fit in Shurmur's offense IMO as would Darnold. I am not saying Allen or Rosen are bad fits I just think their skill sets are a better fit in a vertical passing scheme like Norv Turner's.
But youve got to wonder how Shurmur feels about Webbs potential as a pro QB. Ive got to imagine that had to of come up during the interview, no? There seems to be a lot of high praise for Webb within the organization.
Maras missed on BB once already. when the potential next BB is available, you take your best shot, as opposed to playing it safe due to most recent bad experience.
Dann, now Im really pissed we didnt get the next Belichick, you convinced me.
I liked Patricia, but theres a lot to like about a bunch of these guys.
People are getting way too hung up on the WCO thing.
Do some reading. Shurmur uses power spread concepts, he's not running a straight WCO.
Eli is also not the long-term QB here, so the fact that WCO concepts didn't work as well with him recently is less relevant.
Too hung up on it? Yes, he's used elements of power spread - but make no mistake, he's a WCO.
I don't want any part of that scheme, here. It has nothing to do with Eli Manning either.
I hope it's OK to not like the hire. I am OK if people like it. I absolutely hated the McAdoo hire too. Both as OC and HC. Not beating my chest, just saying I don't like that scheme in the Northeast from a logistical standpoint. Prefer the style that won the Giants 4 Lombardi's. That's what works here.
This is just personal preference stuff. I'm OK if everyone disagrees.
It's the only thing that's ever been here. So of course you're predisposed to believe that it's the only thing that works. They've never tried to be anything else. There is no single way to win in this sport.
AZ Cardinals fans are very disappointed in today's news from reading their forums and news websites. They were hoping for Shurmur and you can bet the Titans would have hired him as well.
Seemed clear this was guy as soon as Patricia to Detroit
Offensive skill players when Shurmur coached in Cleveland...
QB's: Colt McCoy, Seneca Wallace, Brandon Weeden, Thad Lewis
RB's: Peyton Hillis, Trent Richardson (only respectable year he had was with Shurmur), Montario Hardesty, Chris Ogbonnaya
WR's: Greg Little, Mohammad Massaquoi, Josh Cribbs, Jordan Norwood
TE's: Ben Watson, Jordan Cameron
If anyone can point me to an offensive coach who did more with less than that, I'd love to see it.
RE: RE: To those judging Shurmur for his tenure in Cleveland
I have no issue with people not liking the hire as long as the reasons are legitimate.
Why is a WCO bad?
The Rams use one and led the NFL in scoring.
The Eagles put up the 3rd most points in the NFL running one this year and Wentz was a legit MVP candidate before he got hurt.
Kansas City was another top 10 offense with primarily WCO concepts.
It's not bad a bad scheme, it's just not the ideal scheme to run in an outdoor stadium in the Northeast. Just my opinion. I'm not going to get in a boring laundry list why. Let's agree to disagree.
RE: Everyone settle down... This is not a done deal...
If they dont trade out of 6th overall in 2011 for picks that amassed to Phil Taylor, Greg Little, Owen Marecic & Brandon Weeden... just handed the Falcons Julio Jones...
-Professionalism
-Offensive weapons and what Shurmur can do with them
-Re-focus on power running game and play action
-Steady leadership
-relating to players but earning their respect
These are things that probably stood out about this guy in the process - hoping it all comes to fruition.
I have no issue with people not liking the hire as long as the reasons are legitimate.
Why is a WCO bad?
The Rams use one and led the NFL in scoring.
The Eagles put up the 3rd most points in the NFL running one this year and Wentz was a legit MVP candidate before he got hurt.
Kansas City was another top 10 offense with primarily WCO concepts.
It's not bad a bad scheme, it's just not the ideal scheme to run in an outdoor stadium in the Northeast. Just my opinion. I'm not going to get in a boring laundry list why. Let's agree to disagree.
I have no issue with people not liking the hire as long as the reasons are legitimate.
Why is a WCO bad?
The Rams use one and led the NFL in scoring.
The Eagles put up the 3rd most points in the NFL running one this year and Wentz was a legit MVP candidate before he got hurt.
Kansas City was another top 10 offense with primarily WCO concepts.
It's not bad a bad scheme, it's just not the ideal scheme to run in an outdoor stadium in the Northeast. Just my opinion. I'm not going to get in a boring laundry list why. Let's agree to disagree.
Offensive skill players when Shurmur coached in Cleveland...
QB's: Colt McCoy, Seneca Wallace, Brandon Weeden, Thad Lewis
RB's: Peyton Hillis, Trent Richardson (only respectable year he had was with Shurmur), Montario Hardesty, Chris Ogbonnaya
WR's: Greg Little, Mohammad Massaquoi, Josh Cribbs, Jordan Norwood
TE's: Ben Watson, Jordan Cameron
If anyone can point me to an offensive coach who did more with less than that, I'd love to see it.
He also won 200% of the games the Giants won this year with that roster.
Is not the top of the barrel or the bottom he is the middle of the barrel who is not going to have much control over major decisions. Stop the presses the Giants have to hope he surprises but this team needed a lot more Pizzazz from this new HC hiring. This was a chance to bring some live back to a team on life support this is a move that just leaves you saying really?
They could have hired Wilks from a minority standpoInt it would have been a plus and given the team a publicity lift something they badly need these days. However the real fact is they got stood up at the altar not once but twice and took the best man hopefully left. The Giants are a team built on a tradition of strong, physical and smash mouth defense they need to return to past glory.
Is not the top of the barrel or the bottom he is the middle of the barrel who is not going to have much control over major decisions. Stop the presses the Giants have to hope he surprises but this team needed a lot more Pizzazz from this new HC hiring. This was a chance to bring some live back to a team on life support this is a move that just leaves you saying really?
They could have hired Wilks from a minority standpoInt it would have been a plus and given the team a publicity lift something they badly need these days. However the real fact is they got stood up at the altar not once but twice and took the best man hopefully left. The Giants are a team built on a tradition of strong, physical and smash mouth defense they need to return to past glory.
The time the team starts making personnel decisions based strictly off race will be the time I stop being a fan.
RE: Well he didn't do much positive in St Louis, on the other hand fat
(or any other) hire needs to admit none of us really knows anything about these guys. As I remember the overwhelming response on BBI was that Marrone was an uninspiring pick, a retread, etc... Two years later he has his team in the championship game and the Giants are looking for a coach again.
All these opinions at this point are based on very little real evidence.
Is not the top of the barrel or the bottom he is the middle of the barrel who is not going to have much control over major decisions. Stop the presses the Giants have to hope he surprises but this team needed a lot more Pizzazz from this new HC hiring. This was a chance to bring some live back to a team on life support this is a move that just leaves you saying really?
They could have hired Wilks from a minority standpoInt it would have been a plus and given the team a publicity lift something they badly need these days. However the real fact is they got stood up at the altar not once but twice and took the best man hopefully left. The Giants are a team built on a tradition of strong, physical and smash mouth defense they need to return to past glory.
Publicity lift is the least of the Giants worries.
A. QB transition from Eli to ____?
B. Removing the disruptive cancer players.
C. Develop a scoring offense.
D. Develop an respectable OL.
E. Improve the underperforming defense.
F. The list is endless.
(or any other) hire needs to admit none of us really knows anything about these guys. As I remember the overwhelming response on BBI was that Marrone was an uninspiring pick, a retread, etc... Two years later he has his team in the championship game and the Giants are looking for a coach again.
All these opinions at this point are based on very little real evidence.
Schrumur has coached in NFL for 20 years, literally thousands of players. Our beat writers have been unable to get 1 player quote from someone who's played for him?
I know you said Wilks intrigued you at the outset of the process, but between the final three candidates, who would you have preferred? Don't mean to put you on the spot, just interested in your opinion.
Schrumur has coached in NFL for 20 years, literally thousands of players. Our beat writers have been unable to get 1 player quote from someone who's played for him?
Probably waiting for the announcement to be official before writing puff pieces..or digging up dirt.
why can't we ban Slade? There are certain subjects we aren't allowed to talk about on here, no April Fools post, yet Slade is allowed to come around here and intentionally post false info. What am I missing?
why can't we ban Slade? There are certain subjects we aren't allowed to talk about on here, no April Fools post, yet Slade is allowed to come around here and intentionally post false info. What am I missing?
What???? No idea what that means all I know is Patricia and McDaniels know alot about winning.
My point is, what did Parcells win before he became HC of the Giants? What had Belichick won (as HC), before he became HC of the Pats? What had Holmgren won before he became HC of the Packers? What had Tomlin won before he became HC of the Steelers? I could go on and on.
We all know (or at least should) that just because someone is an assistant on a team that wins the SB, doesn't mean they're going to be a SB winning HC. Plenty Belichick assistants knew "a lot about winning" yet haven't gone on to be great HCs.
Kimberly Jones
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59s60 seconds ago
Kimberly Jones Retweeted Ian Rapoport
His #NYG interview went very well, per sources.
Mike Garafolo
Verified account @MikeGarafolo
6s7 seconds ago
Mike Garafolo Retweeted Ian Rapoport
Hes done well with multiple QBs in Minnesota and the Giants have noticed.
Around The NFL
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12s12 seconds ago
BREAKING: Pat Shurmur expected to be next head coach of Giants, @RapSheet reports
And I am much more open to a QB at 2 now because of that.
Furthermore the position coaches can make all the difference, especially on a team with a lot of internal strife/locker room issues like this one. We need strong leaders for each position group.
To me the biggest question marks about a guy like Shurmur isn't can he lead the organization, but can he assemble the talent around him to have a world-class coaching staff.
Furthermore the position coaches can make all the difference, especially on a team with a lot of internal strife/locker room issues like this one. We need strong leaders for each position group.
To me the biggest question marks about a guy like Shurmur isn't can he lead the organization, but can he assemble the talent around him to have a world-class coaching staff.
There are rumors of Del Rio with him.
or maybe he convinced the giants he could with with Eli and groom Webb...since he groomed keenum. And then the giants can trade down and build there trenches.
Are they really going to invest a head coach in a qb who has , at most, 2 seasons left? Top qb prospect seems more likely.
Sign me up if that's the case!
Ian Rapoport
Verified account @RapSheet
2m2 minutes ago
Ian Rapoport Retweeted Around The NFL
The sheer number of people happy for Shurmur is amazing.
Guy deserves a break... ;)
With ya there Josh. All anyone talks about with a Shurmur is hes good at offense and QBs. Theres more to football than that last I checked.
Yep, Ian was just on NFL Network and confirmed that Shurmur is the Giants top choice and NY is Shurmur's top choice. Made it sound like it is just a formality to make an official offer/acceptance once the Vikings season is over.
And they're definitely going Rosen at 2 if this is true.
IMO, McDaniels was never a top choice. He might have been in the mix, but Ian has been linking Josh and Indy for some time. There were a few asshats that had indicated that McDaniels was never one of the top finalists. Many on BBI inferred based on yesterday's reports that it was Josh, but no one confirmed what was told to them. Those that did say that Josh was not in consideration were clear.
Huh? What a weird comment. What did Parcells ever win before coming here?
Good time to start winning. Gotta start somewhere.
I was all in on Wilks because I thought he was a leader. If Schurmur checks that block then Im all for the hire.
This is huge in my book.
Also I think Webb gets a long look from Shurmer.
Nah I think he was Mara's top choice all along. Gettleman who knows, but this is exactly the type of hire Mara alluded to in his pressers.
SHO'NUFF : 2:46 pm : link : reply
all the other top choices went elsewhere?
What other top choices?? Wasn't Wilks supposedly a top choice? Where the fuck did he go?
As early as 10 days ago, Shurmur was listed higher than even McDaniels on the radar.
The way i look at it only possibly Patricia was a guy the Giants might have wanted that isn't here. This whole process has been a clusterfuck - not on the giants side, but on the fans take's.
Not just that but having a track record with developing a QB since that is near the top of the list to take us into the future.
mike zimmer is a defensive coach...lol
da fuq is he talking about
Michigan State (19901997)
Tight ends, offensive line & special teams coach
Stanford (1998)
Offensive line coach
Philadelphia Eagles (19992001)
Tight ends & offensive line coach
LOL, this team has about 500 bigger problems than Beckham's behavior right now.
The similarities are, at hiring they were both hot QB whisperining coordinators, and around the same age.
I think there's been a terrible disconnect over the past 5 years between GM and HC in regards to personnel.
I don't think Reese provided Coughlin with the players Coughlin wanted. Coughlin was a "run the ball, stop the run, rush the passer" kind of guy, and the Giants ended up with personnel that couldn't achieve those things.
McAdoo just sucked, but I don't think he got the players he wanted either.
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for Shurmur is whether he's enough of a leader to take control of OBJ and fix this locker room. There's litte doubt that he'll do a good job with the #2 pick but we need a strong coach who will bring this team together. As I said earlier in the thread I definitely have my reservations about whether Shurmur is the leader of men type. Really hope he is.
LOL, this team has about 500 bigger problems than Beckham's behavior right now.
That's not what I said. We need a coach who can control OBJ (McAdoo surely could not) AND fix this locker room. Fixing this broken locker room and leading these men is probably the #1 thing that needs fixing with this team right now.
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something Belicheck is lauded for. He has HC experience so he has been through the first round of painful learning. He will be drafting a QB to groom to mold and develop. He has coached in the NFC East. This is exciting stuff!
This is huge in my book.
Also I think Webb gets a long look from Shurmer.
This. He's had success running Chip Kelly's uptempo horizontal style, as well as a ground and pound power spread in Minnesota. One of the few coaches to successfully marry some of the newer college trends with the pro game. And he actually adapts his offense to the talent he has on the roster, putting his QBs in the best position to succeed, a wild concept around these parts lately.
DG wanted wilks or patricia.
i like Shurm...think he is going to be good for us. i now expect a QB at 2. unless he wants to ride eli and take barkley at 2 to improve tge run game, he knows it has been huge for him this year in minny
Who do we think is on it?
What did any Coach ever win, before they won?
Michel would be a perfect round 2 pick to fill the running back role
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What has he ever won?
What did any Coach ever win, before they won?
What???? No idea what that means all I know is Patricia and McDaniels know alot about winning.
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In comment 13790645 Josh in the City said:
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for Shurmur is whether he's enough of a leader to take control of OBJ and fix this locker room. There's litte doubt that he'll do a good job with the #2 pick but we need a strong coach who will bring this team together. As I said earlier in the thread I definitely have my reservations about whether Shurmur is the leader of men type. Really hope he is.
LOL, this team has about 500 bigger problems than Beckham's behavior right now.
That's not what I said. We need a coach who can control OBJ (McAdoo surely could not) AND fix this locker room. Fixing this broken locker room and leading these men is probably the #1 thing that needs fixing with this team right now.
Winning fixes locker rooms. They were all good soldiers at 11-5
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In comment 13790592 est1986 said:
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What has he ever won?
What did any Coach ever win, before they won?
What???? No idea what that means all I know is Patricia and McDaniels know alot about winning.
um shurmur is cosching in the NFCC next weekend....id say thats solid.
his offenses have been pretty good everywhere he has gone. i mean he makes case keenum look good.
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In comment 13790592 est1986 said:
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What has he ever won?
What did any Coach ever win, before they won?
What???? No idea what that means all I know is Patricia and McDaniels know alot about winning.
Go read the guys resume. He has more success across the board than either of the Pats assistants.
Who was the better OC for the Rams? McDaniels as their OC was awful. People see what they wanna see.
For all the apologizing thats being done for Shurmurs stint in Cleveland, he still brings nothing more (in terms of HC experience) than 2 failed seasons. How can he work miracles with Keenum, yet couldnt do the same in Cleveland?
I dont like the Andy Reid connection. I dont like that Philly went with Pederson over him. I dont like speculation that this was done in any way with Eli at the forefront of the thought process.
We are also at least 1 week out from being able to build a staff that hopefully Tom Quinn and Spagnuolo have no part of.
For all the apologizing thats being done for Shurmurs stint in Cleveland, he still brings nothing more (in terms of HC experience) than 2 failed seasons. How can he work miracles with Keenum, yet couldnt do the same in Cleveland?
I dont like the Andy Reid connection. I dont like that Philly went with Pederson over him. I dont like speculation that this was done in any way with Eli at the forefront of the thought process.
We are also at least 1 week out from being able to build a staff that hopefully Tom Quinn and Spagnuolo have no part of.
you contradict yourself. its either a risky pick or a safe pick....
thatbbeing said i think its a good choice based on whats out there
For all the apologizing thats being done for Shurmurs stint in Cleveland, he still brings nothing more (in terms of HC experience) than 2 failed seasons. How can he work miracles with Keenum, yet couldnt do the same in Cleveland?
Which do you prefer - failed stint as a coach or zero head coaching experience? Because those were our options.
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No disputing that. Still, this smells a lot like yet another safety blanket pick by John Mara.
For all the apologizing thats being done for Shurmurs stint in Cleveland, he still brings nothing more (in terms of HC experience) than 2 failed seasons. How can he work miracles with Keenum, yet couldnt do the same in Cleveland?
Which do you prefer - failed stint as a coach or zero head coaching experience? Because those were our options.
none..most that want to complain dont have an alternative.
How much better did you expect his record to be with Brandon Weeden and Colt McCoy as his QB's?
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/953006682271076353 - ( New Window )
How much better did you expect his record to be with Brandon Weeden and Colt McCoy as his QB's?
Another note on his Cleveland stint. His first season was the lockout shortened season. His second season ended with an ownership change. If there's a no-win situation....that's it.
So yeah, ignore turning a Vikings offense into a highly efficient unit being run effectively by a journeyman QB with limited talent, and just focus on the Browns, because that makes sense.
Mara was spooked by McAdoo. I dont believe he went into this search with an open mind in that respect.
Mara was spooked by McAdoo. I dont believe he went into this search with an open mind in that respect.
How the hell do you know that? Why would they interview Patricia or Wilks if they didnt have an open mind?
I have no idea how some of you draw these conclusions.
Mara was spooked by McAdoo. I dont believe he went into this search with an open mind in that respect.
I mean, this is all conjecture, but so what? Are you saying that Mara didn't want to take a risk with someone like Wilks due to McAdoo? Or is there another hidden diamond that we're missing? He's the safe pick, who's the unsafe pick?
Mara was spooked by McAdoo. I dont believe he went into this search with an open mind in that respect.
Or maybe they were just much more impressed with Shurmur's interview and resume than Wilks'.
I'd also point out that it's not really fair to pin this hire on Mara being "spooked" and making the suggestion that he didn't have an open mind about this hire only to turn around and not have an open mind about it as a fan.
Was he supposed to finish with a winning record?
Show me any NFL team with a roster as poor as those two Browns rosters that did better than Shurmur did. I'll save you the time and say you probably aren't going to find one.
What he's done this year in Minny is impressive, but what is truly impressive on his resume outside of that? This feels like a terrible hire- can anyone truly say this is a big upgrade over Mcadoo?
I too dont knock his record in Cleveland. Looking forward to his staff choices.
I would only consider it a positive in the sense of the experience he pulled from it. In terms of what he accomplished or didn't accomplish there and what it says about him as a head coach, I consider it a non-factor. The situation was FUBAR from the start and he wasn't operating under controlled conditions.
What he's done this year in Minny is impressive, but what is truly impressive on his resume outside of that? This feels like a terrible hire- can anyone truly say this is a big upgrade over Mcadoo?
He was OC in Philly when they had the 4th, 3rd, and 13th ranked offenses.
What he's done this year in Minny is impressive, but what is truly impressive on his resume outside of that? This feels like a terrible hire- can anyone truly say this is a big upgrade over Mcadoo?
The two top 5 offenses he fielded as the OC in PHI when his QB's were Foles, Sanchez and Barkley doesn't impress you?
It sure as hell impressed me.
What he's done this year in Minny is impressive, but what is truly impressive on his resume outside of that? This feels like a terrible hire- can anyone truly say this is a big upgrade over Mcadoo?
A 32 year old Marc Bulger and Kyle Boller with Donnie Avery as the leading receiver is something you are going to get up in arms about? People must have short memories because St Louis was bad for a long time after the Mike Martz days.
In 2009 they also had the 31st ranked defense...
Think the stuff about Beckham is way overplayed. He'll play hurt, he wants to win
Guilty by association (at least in part). No way were they sticking with anyone from that Chip Kelly staff.
So they chose a different guy whos doing well for them and thats a knock on Shurmur? Theres other factors that go into hiring a coach - fit with the GM, play style, salary, etc. theres so many factors that boiling it down to they choose someone else as an argument is lame.
Maybe hell suck as a coach, but I keep hearing about what happened in the past because it fits a narrative but I dont hear anything about him possibly going to the Super Bowl after next weekend with an absolute JAG at QB.
They were going to promote from within after an all-out Civil War with Kelly?
He's also from the "dreaded" Andy Reid tree and seems to be doing just fine.
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to get hired there as they went with Pederson 2 years ago.
Guilty by association (at least in part). No way were they sticking with anyone from that Chip Kelly staff.
+1
He's also from the "dreaded" Andy Reid tree and seems to be doing just fine.
Pedersen had less experience than McAdoo, and he didn't even call plays in Kansas City working for Reid. It goes to show that there's just very little way to know what kind of person or experience is going to work as a head coach.
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Tom Rock Retweeted Tom Rock
NFL Network reported it first. A source confirmed the expectation to @Newsday on Monday but cautioned that minds can change and nothing is official.
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His stint with the Rams was really bad. First year they went 1-15 and the offense was the worst in the league. Only scored over 20 points once. The following year they went 7-9 but offense was ranked 26th. I have no idea how he got a head coach job off of that. Spags was the head coach too. Can't see them bringing that staff back together.
What he's done this year in Minny is impressive, but what is truly impressive on his resume outside of that? This feels like a terrible hire- can anyone truly say this is a big upgrade over Mcadoo?
The two top 5 offenses he fielded as the OC in PHI when his QB's were Foles, Sanchez and Barkley doesn't impress you?
It sure as hell impressed me.
He didn't even call the plays. That was Chips offense come on.
The Giants was supposed to be a premier job and they are going to come away with Pat Shurmur? What a massive disappoint. He hasn't even put together back to back good years with Minnesota. There has to be better options out there.
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In comment 13790876 TyreeHelmet said:
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His stint with the Rams was really bad. First year they went 1-15 and the offense was the worst in the league. Only scored over 20 points once. The following year they went 7-9 but offense was ranked 26th. I have no idea how he got a head coach job off of that. Spags was the head coach too. Can't see them bringing that staff back together.
What he's done this year in Minny is impressive, but what is truly impressive on his resume outside of that? This feels like a terrible hire- can anyone truly say this is a big upgrade over Mcadoo?
The two top 5 offenses he fielded as the OC in PHI when his QB's were Foles, Sanchez and Barkley doesn't impress you?
It sure as hell impressed me.
He didn't even call the plays. That was Chips offense come on.
The Giants was supposed to be a premier job and they are going to come away with Pat Shurmur? What a massive disappoint. He hasn't even put together back to back good years with Minnesota. There has to be better options out there.
He is one of the top 3 candidates available - who did you want?
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In comment 13790876 TyreeHelmet said:
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His stint with the Rams was really bad. First year they went 1-15 and the offense was the worst in the league. Only scored over 20 points once. The following year they went 7-9 but offense was ranked 26th. I have no idea how he got a head coach job off of that. Spags was the head coach too. Can't see them bringing that staff back together.
What he's done this year in Minny is impressive, but what is truly impressive on his resume outside of that? This feels like a terrible hire- can anyone truly say this is a big upgrade over Mcadoo?
The two top 5 offenses he fielded as the OC in PHI when his QB's were Foles, Sanchez and Barkley doesn't impress you?
It sure as hell impressed me.
He didn't even call the plays. That was Chips offense come on.
The Giants was supposed to be a premier job and they are going to come away with Pat Shurmur? What a massive disappoint. He hasn't even put together back to back good years with Minnesota. There has to be better options out there.
So, he was just standing on the sidelines and getting paid for nothing?
He had nothing to do with that offense?
Alrighty.
I guess everyone is gun shy now....
Hes been pretty damn successful without even a top 20.
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In comment 13790876 TyreeHelmet said:
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His stint with the Rams was really bad. First year they went 1-15 and the offense was the worst in the league. Only scored over 20 points once. The following year they went 7-9 but offense was ranked 26th. I have no idea how he got a head coach job off of that. Spags was the head coach too. Can't see them bringing that staff back together.
What he's done this year in Minny is impressive, but what is truly impressive on his resume outside of that? This feels like a terrible hire- can anyone truly say this is a big upgrade over Mcadoo?
The two top 5 offenses he fielded as the OC in PHI when his QB's were Foles, Sanchez and Barkley doesn't impress you?
It sure as hell impressed me.
He didn't even call the plays. That was Chips offense come on.
The Giants was supposed to be a premier job and they are going to come away with Pat Shurmur? What a massive disappoint. He hasn't even put together back to back good years with Minnesota. There has to be better options out there.
It probably is. But who exactly is out there? They don't appear to be interested in shooting high for a college guy like Shaw or Saban. Who else is out there? I don't trust those NE assistants without BB. two of the final four teams are coached by Doug Peterson and Doug Marrone. Both of which would have pissed the entire board off if they were hired here when McAdoo got the job. lol
- good track record with QBs
- comes from a football family
- been around successful coaches
- his offenses have been balanced and successful, overcoming injuries
Who knows how it will work out but I think all of the above are improvements from the last hire if nothing else. I have to assume Gettleman thinks he can command the room and effectively function at that CEO level since he placed such an emphasis on it. Im also glad he didnt just go with a familiar candidate.
Shut the hell up.
yea we know
That's why you can't say whether or not his hiring indicates anything about whether a QB will be taken with the NYG's first pick.
It is within the realm of possibility at least that the Giant's DON'T intend to take a QB early and will use the pick to shore up the OL and or RB.
In that scenario they need someone to make the most of Eli in the next few years and to develop Webb and any new QB taken in lower rounds.
As you indicated, he did wonders with Case Keenum who went undrafted.
schurmur..hope it works out with him and not haven't to go through this process for a long while now
You have zero credibility. Please shut the fuck up.
schurmur..hope it works out with him and not haven't to go through this process for a long while now
Yippee!! 🤪
Do some reading. Shurmur uses power spread concepts, he's not running a straight WCO.
Eli is also not the long-term QB here, so the fact that WCO concepts didn't work as well with him recently is less relevant.
How much better did you expect his record to be with Brandon Weeden and Colt McCoy as his QB's?
His skill position players were crap on O. His Oline was decent, but his offense was like 2nd from last in points scored because they couldnt move the football. Id put that more on the GM, who was Holmgren at the time. His Defense their was like 5th in points against, which was exceptional.
Personnel and coordinators will have a say in his success. Its not all on the Head Coach. He apparently blew the Giants away and showed he was prepared and had a good idea of what needs to happen to turn the program around. Thats got to start in the trenches. He knows Olines too, as he was also an Oline coach, as well. Lastly, he knows the NFC East well, which is important.
Im all for this hire. I know hell get a chance, especially if they bring in a new QB. I think they could be competitive next year and thats all you can ask for at this juncture.
I wanted Patricia. Mainly because if it worked out, it would be a good long term solution, with more innovation from an engineer.
this hire feels like a half-measure
I wanted Patricia. Mainly because if it worked out, it would be a good long term solution, with more innovation from an engineer.
this hire feels like a half-measure
What am I reading today?
What am I reading today?
Maras missed on BB once already. when the potential next BB is available, you take your best shot, as opposed to playing it safe due to most recent bad experience.
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because "asshats" here hinted so...amazing
schurmur..hope it works out with him and not haven't to go through this process for a long while now
You got shit for misrepresenting what the asshats reported. And more than one even pointed that out to you. They never said what you claimed they did.
read through that and it was pretty much said..but whatever
Well he can't sign yet so it can't be 'inked'. God, you're the worst.
Coming from the guy who putt all his chips in that Belichick would be the next HC. FUCK OFF
Do some reading. Shurmur uses power spread concepts, he's not running a straight WCO.
Eli is also not the long-term QB here, so the fact that WCO concepts didn't work as well with him recently is less relevant.
Too hung up on it? Yes, he's used elements of power spread - but make no mistake, he's a WCO.
I don't want any part of that scheme, here. It has nothing to do with Eli Manning either.
I hope it's OK to not like the hire. I am OK if people like it. I absolutely hated the McAdoo hire too. Both as OC and HC. Not beating my chest, just saying I don't like that scheme in the Northeast from a logistical standpoint. Prefer the style that won the Giants 4 Lombardi's. That's what works here.
This is just personal preference stuff. I'm OK if everyone disagrees.
People hear "West Coast offense" and turn into idiots without even actually knowing what it is.
I don't want any part of that scheme, here. It has nothing to do with Eli Manning either.
I hope it's OK to not like the hire. I am OK if people like it. I absolutely hated the McAdoo hire too. Both as OC and HC. Not beating my chest, just saying I don't like that scheme in the Northeast from a logistical standpoint. Prefer the style that won the Giants 4 Lombardi's. That's what works here.
This is just personal preference stuff. I'm OK if everyone disagrees.
It's fine not to like the hire. This board is meant to create discussion and debate about football. The cons of this place are the posters who degrade those who dare have a differing opinion. You are right that Shurmur uses the WC offense but I believe that he tweaks it to better suit his players. This isn't McAdoo's predictable offense anymore. I am wondering if this hire will make the Giants consider drafting Baker Mayfield as he would be a very good fit in Shurmur's offense IMO as would Darnold. I am not saying Allen or Rosen are bad fits I just think their skill sets are a better fit in a vertical passing scheme like Norv Turner's.
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it wont be a good long term solution?
What am I reading today?
Maras missed on BB once already. when the potential next BB is available, you take your best shot, as opposed to playing it safe due to most recent bad experience.
Dann, now Im really pissed we didnt get the next Belichick, you convinced me.
I liked Patricia, but theres a lot to like about a bunch of these guys.
Why is a WCO bad?
The Rams use one and led the NFL in scoring.
The Eagles put up the 3rd most points in the NFL running one this year and Wentz was a legit MVP candidate before he got hurt.
Kansas City was another top 10 offense with primarily WCO concepts.
The similarities are, at hiring they were both hot QB whisperining coordinators, and around the same age.
Was thinking the same thing but I'd say shurmur is Fassel on steroids. He's had more success as OC. But i get your point.
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Who did you want the Giants to hire as head coach and OC who would bring a different culture and offense?
I wanted Patricia. Mainly because if it worked out, it would be a good long term solution, with more innovation from an engineer.
this hire feels like a half-measure
Why can't Shurmur be a "long term solution?" He is only 52.
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People are getting way too hung up on the WCO thing.
Do some reading. Shurmur uses power spread concepts, he's not running a straight WCO.
Eli is also not the long-term QB here, so the fact that WCO concepts didn't work as well with him recently is less relevant.
Too hung up on it? Yes, he's used elements of power spread - but make no mistake, he's a WCO.
I don't want any part of that scheme, here. It has nothing to do with Eli Manning either.
I hope it's OK to not like the hire. I am OK if people like it. I absolutely hated the McAdoo hire too. Both as OC and HC. Not beating my chest, just saying I don't like that scheme in the Northeast from a logistical standpoint. Prefer the style that won the Giants 4 Lombardi's. That's what works here.
This is just personal preference stuff. I'm OK if everyone disagrees.
It's the only thing that's ever been here. So of course you're predisposed to believe that it's the only thing that works. They've never tried to be anything else. There is no single way to win in this sport.
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In comment 13791150 Aaron Thomas said:
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Who did you want the Giants to hire as head coach and OC who would bring a different culture and offense?
I wanted Patricia. Mainly because if it worked out, it would be a good long term solution, with more innovation from an engineer.
this hire feels like a half-measure
Why can't Shurmur be a "long term solution?" He is only 52.
52 is ancient...
Meanwhile, BB is chugging along @ 65.
No.
How did you know about Butch Davis's bowling team?
AZ Cardinals fans are very disappointed in today's news from reading their forums and news websites. They were hoping for Shurmur and you can bet the Titans would have hired him as well.
The Browns are abysmal. Shurmur's five-win season in 2012 is tied for the second best record that franchise has seen in the last 10 seasons.
QB's: Colt McCoy, Seneca Wallace, Brandon Weeden, Thad Lewis
RB's: Peyton Hillis, Trent Richardson (only respectable year he had was with Shurmur), Montario Hardesty, Chris Ogbonnaya
WR's: Greg Little, Mohammad Massaquoi, Josh Cribbs, Jordan Norwood
TE's: Ben Watson, Jordan Cameron
If anyone can point me to an offensive coach who did more with less than that, I'd love to see it.
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In terms of talent his teams were far inferior to the one that just went 0-16 this year.
The Browns are abysmal. Shurmur's five-win season in 2012 is tied for the second best record that franchise has seen in the last 10 seasons.
My point was Shurmur should be praised for going 5-11 in his final season in Cleveland. Winning 5 games with that roster is damn impressive.
Why is a WCO bad?
The Rams use one and led the NFL in scoring.
The Eagles put up the 3rd most points in the NFL running one this year and Wentz was a legit MVP candidate before he got hurt.
Kansas City was another top 10 offense with primarily WCO concepts.
It's not bad a bad scheme, it's just not the ideal scheme to run in an outdoor stadium in the Northeast. Just my opinion. I'm not going to get in a boring laundry list why. Let's agree to disagree.
I've never seen anyone has as little self awareness as you.
-Offensive weapons and what Shurmur can do with them
-Re-focus on power running game and play action
-Steady leadership
-relating to players but earning their respect
These are things that probably stood out about this guy in the process - hoping it all comes to fruition.
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I have no issue with people not liking the hire as long as the reasons are legitimate.
Why is a WCO bad?
The Rams use one and led the NFL in scoring.
The Eagles put up the 3rd most points in the NFL running one this year and Wentz was a legit MVP candidate before he got hurt.
Kansas City was another top 10 offense with primarily WCO concepts.
It's not bad a bad scheme, it's just not the ideal scheme to run in an outdoor stadium in the Northeast. Just my opinion. I'm not going to get in a boring laundry list why. Let's agree to disagree.
Seems to be going well for the Eagles
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People are getting way too hung up on the WCO thing.
People hear "West Coast offense" and turn into idiots without even actually knowing what it is.
as long as we throw the ball downfield...who cares
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I have no issue with people not liking the hire as long as the reasons are legitimate.
Why is a WCO bad?
The Rams use one and led the NFL in scoring.
The Eagles put up the 3rd most points in the NFL running one this year and Wentz was a legit MVP candidate before he got hurt.
Kansas City was another top 10 offense with primarily WCO concepts.
It's not bad a bad scheme, it's just not the ideal scheme to run in an outdoor stadium in the Northeast. Just my opinion. I'm not going to get in a boring laundry list why. Let's agree to disagree.
Id like to see the list
QB's: Colt McCoy, Seneca Wallace, Brandon Weeden, Thad Lewis
RB's: Peyton Hillis, Trent Richardson (only respectable year he had was with Shurmur), Montario Hardesty, Chris Ogbonnaya
WR's: Greg Little, Mohammad Massaquoi, Josh Cribbs, Jordan Norwood
TE's: Ben Watson, Jordan Cameron
If anyone can point me to an offensive coach who did more with less than that, I'd love to see it.
He also won 200% of the games the Giants won this year with that roster.
They could have hired Wilks from a minority standpoInt it would have been a plus and given the team a publicity lift something they badly need these days. However the real fact is they got stood up at the altar not once but twice and took the best man hopefully left. The Giants are a team built on a tradition of strong, physical and smash mouth defense they need to return to past glory.
What about coaching football, should that be a requirement or no?
They could have hired Wilks from a minority standpoInt it would have been a plus and given the team a publicity lift something they badly need these days. However the real fact is they got stood up at the altar not once but twice and took the best man hopefully left. The Giants are a team built on a tradition of strong, physical and smash mouth defense they need to return to past glory.
The time the team starts making personnel decisions based strictly off race will be the time I stop being a fan.
I addressed this earlier, take a look at the QBs and WRs on that team. Ill give you a hint, they were terrible.
All these opinions at this point are based on very little real evidence.
They could have hired Wilks from a minority standpoInt it would have been a plus and given the team a publicity lift something they badly need these days. However the real fact is they got stood up at the altar not once but twice and took the best man hopefully left. The Giants are a team built on a tradition of strong, physical and smash mouth defense they need to return to past glory.
Publicity lift is the least of the Giants worries.
A. QB transition from Eli to ____?
B. Removing the disruptive cancer players.
C. Develop a scoring offense.
D. Develop an respectable OL.
E. Improve the underperforming defense.
F. The list is endless.
All these opinions at this point are based on very little real evidence.
...I wanted Marrone...BBI laughed.
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In comment 13791148 arcarsenal said:
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People are getting way too hung up on the WCO thing.
People hear "West Coast offense" and turn into idiots without even actually knowing what it is.
as long as we throw the ball downfield...who cares
Any offensive scheme will do that as long as it has an offensive line.
Probably waiting for the announcement to be official before writing puff pieces..or digging up dirt.
And, Raanan, still not sure...
Sources: Giants shift coach search to Shurmur
Agreed. He's more asshole than asshat.
Can't do that officially.
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says Giants expected to announce Shurmur today as new HC.
Can't do that officially.
Couldn't they do what the Lions did - say they're no longer looking?
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In comment 13791501 Bubba said:
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says Giants expected to announce Shurmur today as new HC.
Can't do that officially.
Couldn't they do what the Lions did - say they're no longer looking?
Yeah, but was that even official? Or just anonymous sources in the organization.
Anyway, not new. Everyone knew Shanahan was getting the Niners job, and when Quinn got the Atlanta job, everyone knew that.
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In comment 13790592 est1986 said:
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What has he ever won?
What did any Coach ever win, before they won?
What???? No idea what that means all I know is Patricia and McDaniels know alot about winning.
My point is, what did Parcells win before he became HC of the Giants? What had Belichick won (as HC), before he became HC of the Pats? What had Holmgren won before he became HC of the Packers? What had Tomlin won before he became HC of the Steelers? I could go on and on.
We all know (or at least should) that just because someone is an assistant on a team that wins the SB, doesn't mean they're going to be a SB winning HC. Plenty Belichick assistants knew "a lot about winning" yet haven't gone on to be great HCs.