Again, look at the players Shurmur had in Cleveland
How much better did you expect his record to be with Brandon Weeden and Colt McCoy as his QB's?
His skill position players were crap on O. His Oline was decent, but his offense was like 2nd from last in points scored because they couldn’t move the football. I’d put that more on the GM, who was Holmgren at the time. His Defense their was like 5th in points against, which was exceptional.
Personnel and coordinators will have a say in his success. It’s not all on the Head Coach. He apparently blew the Giants away and showed he was prepared and had a good idea of what needs to happen to turn the program around. That’s got to start in the trenches. He knows Olines too, as he was also an Oline coach, as well. Lastly, he knows the NFC East well, which is important.
I’m all for this hire. I know he’ll get a chance, especially if they bring in a new QB. I think they could be competitive next year and that’s all you can ask for at this juncture.
What about Patricia's lack of HC experience? We have no idea how he would command the locker room and just because he has an engineering degree in no way guarantees success in running a football team.
Maras missed on BB once already. when the potential next BB is available, you take your best shot, as opposed to playing it safe due to most recent bad experience.
RE: RE: ha..I said by end of day...and got shit on for saying so Â
People are getting way too hung up on the WCO thing.
Do some reading. Shurmur uses power spread concepts, he's not running a straight WCO.
Eli is also not the long-term QB here, so the fact that WCO concepts didn't work as well with him recently is less relevant.
Too hung up on it? Yes, he's used elements of power spread - but make no mistake, he's a WCO.
I don't want any part of that scheme, here. It has nothing to do with Eli Manning either.
I hope it's OK to not like the hire. I am OK if people like it. I absolutely hated the McAdoo hire too. Both as OC and HC. Not beating my chest, just saying I don't like that scheme in the Northeast from a logistical standpoint. Prefer the style that won the Giants 4 Lombardi's. That's what works here.
This is just personal preference stuff. I'm OK if everyone disagrees.
I don't want any part of that scheme, here. It has nothing to do with Eli Manning either.
I hope it's OK to not like the hire. I am OK if people like it. I absolutely hated the McAdoo hire too. Both as OC and HC. Not beating my chest, just saying I don't like that scheme in the Northeast from a logistical standpoint. Prefer the style that won the Giants 4 Lombardi's. That's what works here.
This is just personal preference stuff. I'm OK if everyone disagrees.
It's fine not to like the hire. This board is meant to create discussion and debate about football. The cons of this place are the posters who degrade those who dare have a differing opinion. You are right that Shurmur uses the WC offense but I believe that he tweaks it to better suit his players. This isn't McAdoo's predictable offense anymore. I am wondering if this hire will make the Giants consider drafting Baker Mayfield as he would be a very good fit in Shurmur's offense IMO as would Darnold. I am not saying Allen or Rosen are bad fits I just think their skill sets are a better fit in a vertical passing scheme like Norv Turner's.
But you’ve got to wonder how Shurmur feels about Webb’s potential as a pro QB. I’ve got to imagine that had to of come up during the interview, no? There seems to be a lot of high praise for Webb within the organization.
Maras missed on BB once already. when the potential next BB is available, you take your best shot, as opposed to playing it safe due to most recent bad experience.
Dann, now I’m really pissed we didn’t get the next Belichick, you convinced me.
I liked Patricia, but there’s a lot to like about a bunch of these guys.
People are getting way too hung up on the WCO thing.
Do some reading. Shurmur uses power spread concepts, he's not running a straight WCO.
Eli is also not the long-term QB here, so the fact that WCO concepts didn't work as well with him recently is less relevant.
Too hung up on it? Yes, he's used elements of power spread - but make no mistake, he's a WCO.
I don't want any part of that scheme, here. It has nothing to do with Eli Manning either.
I hope it's OK to not like the hire. I am OK if people like it. I absolutely hated the McAdoo hire too. Both as OC and HC. Not beating my chest, just saying I don't like that scheme in the Northeast from a logistical standpoint. Prefer the style that won the Giants 4 Lombardi's. That's what works here.
This is just personal preference stuff. I'm OK if everyone disagrees.
It's the only thing that's ever been here. So of course you're predisposed to believe that it's the only thing that works. They've never tried to be anything else. There is no single way to win in this sport.
AZ Cardinals fans are very disappointed in today's news from reading their forums and news websites. They were hoping for Shurmur and you can bet the Titans would have hired him as well.
Seemed clear this was guy as soon as Patricia to Detroit Â
Offensive skill players when Shurmur coached in Cleveland...
QB's: Colt McCoy, Seneca Wallace, Brandon Weeden, Thad Lewis
RB's: Peyton Hillis, Trent Richardson (only respectable year he had was with Shurmur), Montario Hardesty, Chris Ogbonnaya
WR's: Greg Little, Mohammad Massaquoi, Josh Cribbs, Jordan Norwood
TE's: Ben Watson, Jordan Cameron
If anyone can point me to an offensive coach who did more with less than that, I'd love to see it.
RE: RE: To those judging Shurmur for his tenure in Cleveland Â
I have no issue with people not liking the hire as long as the reasons are legitimate.
Why is a WCO bad?
The Rams use one and led the NFL in scoring.
The Eagles put up the 3rd most points in the NFL running one this year and Wentz was a legit MVP candidate before he got hurt.
Kansas City was another top 10 offense with primarily WCO concepts.
It's not bad a bad scheme, it's just not the ideal scheme to run in an outdoor stadium in the Northeast. Just my opinion. I'm not going to get in a boring laundry list why. Let's agree to disagree.
RE: Everyone settle down... This is not a done deal... Â
If they dont trade out of 6th overall in 2011 for picks that amassed to Phil Taylor, Greg Little, Owen Marecic & Brandon Weeden... just handed the Falcons Julio Jones...
-Professionalism
-Offensive weapons and what Shurmur can do with them
-Re-focus on power running game and play action
-Steady leadership
-relating to players but earning their respect
These are things that probably stood out about this guy in the process - hoping it all comes to fruition.
I have no issue with people not liking the hire as long as the reasons are legitimate.
Why is a WCO bad?
The Rams use one and led the NFL in scoring.
The Eagles put up the 3rd most points in the NFL running one this year and Wentz was a legit MVP candidate before he got hurt.
Kansas City was another top 10 offense with primarily WCO concepts.
It's not bad a bad scheme, it's just not the ideal scheme to run in an outdoor stadium in the Northeast. Just my opinion. I'm not going to get in a boring laundry list why. Let's agree to disagree.
I have no issue with people not liking the hire as long as the reasons are legitimate.
Why is a WCO bad?
The Rams use one and led the NFL in scoring.
The Eagles put up the 3rd most points in the NFL running one this year and Wentz was a legit MVP candidate before he got hurt.
Kansas City was another top 10 offense with primarily WCO concepts.
It's not bad a bad scheme, it's just not the ideal scheme to run in an outdoor stadium in the Northeast. Just my opinion. I'm not going to get in a boring laundry list why. Let's agree to disagree.
Offensive skill players when Shurmur coached in Cleveland...
QB's: Colt McCoy, Seneca Wallace, Brandon Weeden, Thad Lewis
RB's: Peyton Hillis, Trent Richardson (only respectable year he had was with Shurmur), Montario Hardesty, Chris Ogbonnaya
WR's: Greg Little, Mohammad Massaquoi, Josh Cribbs, Jordan Norwood
TE's: Ben Watson, Jordan Cameron
If anyone can point me to an offensive coach who did more with less than that, I'd love to see it.
He also won 200% of the games the Giants won this year with that roster.
Is not the top of the barrel or the bottom he is the middle of the barrel who is not going to have much control over major decisions. Stop the presses the Giants have to hope he surprises but this team needed a lot more Pizzazz from this new HC hiring. This was a chance to bring some live back to a team on life support this is a move that just leaves you saying really?
They could have hired Wilks from a minority standpoInt it would have been a plus and given the team a publicity lift something they badly need these days. However the real fact is they got stood up at the altar not once but twice and took the best man hopefully left. The Giants are a team built on a tradition of strong, physical and smash mouth defense they need to return to past glory.
Is not the top of the barrel or the bottom he is the middle of the barrel who is not going to have much control over major decisions. Stop the presses the Giants have to hope he surprises but this team needed a lot more Pizzazz from this new HC hiring. This was a chance to bring some live back to a team on life support this is a move that just leaves you saying really?
They could have hired Wilks from a minority standpoInt it would have been a plus and given the team a publicity lift something they badly need these days. However the real fact is they got stood up at the altar not once but twice and took the best man hopefully left. The Giants are a team built on a tradition of strong, physical and smash mouth defense they need to return to past glory.
The time the team starts making personnel decisions based strictly off race will be the time I stop being a fan.
RE: Well he didn't do much positive in St Louis, on the other hand fat Â
(or any other) hire needs to admit none of us really knows anything about these guys. As I remember the overwhelming response on BBI was that Marrone was an “uninspiring” pick, a retread, etc... Two years later he has his team in the championship game and the Giants are looking for a coach again.
All these opinions at this point are based on very little real evidence.
Is not the top of the barrel or the bottom he is the middle of the barrel who is not going to have much control over major decisions. Stop the presses the Giants have to hope he surprises but this team needed a lot more Pizzazz from this new HC hiring. This was a chance to bring some live back to a team on life support this is a move that just leaves you saying really?
They could have hired Wilks from a minority standpoInt it would have been a plus and given the team a publicity lift something they badly need these days. However the real fact is they got stood up at the altar not once but twice and took the best man hopefully left. The Giants are a team built on a tradition of strong, physical and smash mouth defense they need to return to past glory.
Publicity lift is the least of the Giants worries.
A. QB transition from Eli to ____?
B. Removing the disruptive cancer players.
C. Develop a scoring offense.
D. Develop an respectable OL.
E. Improve the underperforming defense.
F. The list is endless.
(or any other) hire needs to admit none of us really knows anything about these guys. As I remember the overwhelming response on BBI was that Marrone was an “uninspiring” pick, a retread, etc... Two years later he has his team in the championship game and the Giants are looking for a coach again.
All these opinions at this point are based on very little real evidence.
Do some reading. Shurmur uses power spread concepts, he's not running a straight WCO.
Eli is also not the long-term QB here, so the fact that WCO concepts didn't work as well with him recently is less relevant.
How much better did you expect his record to be with Brandon Weeden and Colt McCoy as his QB's?
His skill position players were crap on O. His Oline was decent, but his offense was like 2nd from last in points scored because they couldn’t move the football. I’d put that more on the GM, who was Holmgren at the time. His Defense their was like 5th in points against, which was exceptional.
Personnel and coordinators will have a say in his success. It’s not all on the Head Coach. He apparently blew the Giants away and showed he was prepared and had a good idea of what needs to happen to turn the program around. That’s got to start in the trenches. He knows Olines too, as he was also an Oline coach, as well. Lastly, he knows the NFC East well, which is important.
I’m all for this hire. I know he’ll get a chance, especially if they bring in a new QB. I think they could be competitive next year and that’s all you can ask for at this juncture.
I wanted Patricia. Mainly because if it worked out, it would be a good long term solution, with more innovation from an engineer.
this hire feels like a half-measure
I wanted Patricia. Mainly because if it worked out, it would be a good long term solution, with more innovation from an engineer.
this hire feels like a half-measure
What am I reading today?
What am I reading today?
Maras missed on BB once already. when the potential next BB is available, you take your best shot, as opposed to playing it safe due to most recent bad experience.
Quote:
because "asshats" here hinted so...amazing
schurmur..hope it works out with him and not haven't to go through this process for a long while now
You got shit for misrepresenting what the asshats reported. And more than one even pointed that out to you. They never said what you claimed they did.
read through that and it was pretty much said..but whatever
Well he can't sign yet so it can't be 'inked'. God, you're the worst.
Coming from the guy who putt all his chips in that Belichick would be the next HC. FUCK OFF
Do some reading. Shurmur uses power spread concepts, he's not running a straight WCO.
Eli is also not the long-term QB here, so the fact that WCO concepts didn't work as well with him recently is less relevant.
Too hung up on it? Yes, he's used elements of power spread - but make no mistake, he's a WCO.
I don't want any part of that scheme, here. It has nothing to do with Eli Manning either.
I hope it's OK to not like the hire. I am OK if people like it. I absolutely hated the McAdoo hire too. Both as OC and HC. Not beating my chest, just saying I don't like that scheme in the Northeast from a logistical standpoint. Prefer the style that won the Giants 4 Lombardi's. That's what works here.
This is just personal preference stuff. I'm OK if everyone disagrees.
People hear "West Coast offense" and turn into idiots without even actually knowing what it is.
I don't want any part of that scheme, here. It has nothing to do with Eli Manning either.
I hope it's OK to not like the hire. I am OK if people like it. I absolutely hated the McAdoo hire too. Both as OC and HC. Not beating my chest, just saying I don't like that scheme in the Northeast from a logistical standpoint. Prefer the style that won the Giants 4 Lombardi's. That's what works here.
This is just personal preference stuff. I'm OK if everyone disagrees.
It's fine not to like the hire. This board is meant to create discussion and debate about football. The cons of this place are the posters who degrade those who dare have a differing opinion. You are right that Shurmur uses the WC offense but I believe that he tweaks it to better suit his players. This isn't McAdoo's predictable offense anymore. I am wondering if this hire will make the Giants consider drafting Baker Mayfield as he would be a very good fit in Shurmur's offense IMO as would Darnold. I am not saying Allen or Rosen are bad fits I just think their skill sets are a better fit in a vertical passing scheme like Norv Turner's.
Quote:
it won’t be a good long term solution?
What am I reading today?
Maras missed on BB once already. when the potential next BB is available, you take your best shot, as opposed to playing it safe due to most recent bad experience.
Dann, now I’m really pissed we didn’t get the next Belichick, you convinced me.
I liked Patricia, but there’s a lot to like about a bunch of these guys.
Why is a WCO bad?
The Rams use one and led the NFL in scoring.
The Eagles put up the 3rd most points in the NFL running one this year and Wentz was a legit MVP candidate before he got hurt.
Kansas City was another top 10 offense with primarily WCO concepts.
The similarities are, at hiring they were both hot QB whisperining coordinators, and around the same age.
Was thinking the same thing but I'd say shurmur is Fassel on steroids. He's had more success as OC. But i get your point.
Quote:
Who did you want the Giants to hire as head coach and OC who would bring a different culture and offense?
I wanted Patricia. Mainly because if it worked out, it would be a good long term solution, with more innovation from an engineer.
this hire feels like a half-measure
Why can't Shurmur be a "long term solution?" He is only 52.
Quote:
People are getting way too hung up on the WCO thing.
Do some reading. Shurmur uses power spread concepts, he's not running a straight WCO.
Eli is also not the long-term QB here, so the fact that WCO concepts didn't work as well with him recently is less relevant.
Too hung up on it? Yes, he's used elements of power spread - but make no mistake, he's a WCO.
I don't want any part of that scheme, here. It has nothing to do with Eli Manning either.
I hope it's OK to not like the hire. I am OK if people like it. I absolutely hated the McAdoo hire too. Both as OC and HC. Not beating my chest, just saying I don't like that scheme in the Northeast from a logistical standpoint. Prefer the style that won the Giants 4 Lombardi's. That's what works here.
This is just personal preference stuff. I'm OK if everyone disagrees.
It's the only thing that's ever been here. So of course you're predisposed to believe that it's the only thing that works. They've never tried to be anything else. There is no single way to win in this sport.
Quote:
In comment 13791150 Aaron Thomas said:
Quote:
Who did you want the Giants to hire as head coach and OC who would bring a different culture and offense?
I wanted Patricia. Mainly because if it worked out, it would be a good long term solution, with more innovation from an engineer.
this hire feels like a half-measure
Why can't Shurmur be a "long term solution?" He is only 52.
52 is ancient...
Meanwhile, BB is chugging along @ 65.
No.
How did you know about Butch Davis's bowling team?
AZ Cardinals fans are very disappointed in today's news from reading their forums and news websites. They were hoping for Shurmur and you can bet the Titans would have hired him as well.
The Browns are abysmal. Shurmur's five-win season in 2012 is tied for the second best record that franchise has seen in the last 10 seasons.
QB's: Colt McCoy, Seneca Wallace, Brandon Weeden, Thad Lewis
RB's: Peyton Hillis, Trent Richardson (only respectable year he had was with Shurmur), Montario Hardesty, Chris Ogbonnaya
WR's: Greg Little, Mohammad Massaquoi, Josh Cribbs, Jordan Norwood
TE's: Ben Watson, Jordan Cameron
If anyone can point me to an offensive coach who did more with less than that, I'd love to see it.
Quote:
In terms of talent his teams were far inferior to the one that just went 0-16 this year.
The Browns are abysmal. Shurmur's five-win season in 2012 is tied for the second best record that franchise has seen in the last 10 seasons.
My point was Shurmur should be praised for going 5-11 in his final season in Cleveland. Winning 5 games with that roster is damn impressive.
Why is a WCO bad?
The Rams use one and led the NFL in scoring.
The Eagles put up the 3rd most points in the NFL running one this year and Wentz was a legit MVP candidate before he got hurt.
Kansas City was another top 10 offense with primarily WCO concepts.
It's not bad a bad scheme, it's just not the ideal scheme to run in an outdoor stadium in the Northeast. Just my opinion. I'm not going to get in a boring laundry list why. Let's agree to disagree.
I've never seen anyone has as little self awareness as you.
-Offensive weapons and what Shurmur can do with them
-Re-focus on power running game and play action
-Steady leadership
-relating to players but earning their respect
These are things that probably stood out about this guy in the process - hoping it all comes to fruition.
Quote:
I have no issue with people not liking the hire as long as the reasons are legitimate.
Why is a WCO bad?
The Rams use one and led the NFL in scoring.
The Eagles put up the 3rd most points in the NFL running one this year and Wentz was a legit MVP candidate before he got hurt.
Kansas City was another top 10 offense with primarily WCO concepts.
It's not bad a bad scheme, it's just not the ideal scheme to run in an outdoor stadium in the Northeast. Just my opinion. I'm not going to get in a boring laundry list why. Let's agree to disagree.
Seems to be going well for the Eagles
Quote:
People are getting way too hung up on the WCO thing.
People hear "West Coast offense" and turn into idiots without even actually knowing what it is.
as long as we throw the ball downfield...who cares
Quote:
I have no issue with people not liking the hire as long as the reasons are legitimate.
Why is a WCO bad?
The Rams use one and led the NFL in scoring.
The Eagles put up the 3rd most points in the NFL running one this year and Wentz was a legit MVP candidate before he got hurt.
Kansas City was another top 10 offense with primarily WCO concepts.
It's not bad a bad scheme, it's just not the ideal scheme to run in an outdoor stadium in the Northeast. Just my opinion. I'm not going to get in a boring laundry list why. Let's agree to disagree.
Id like to see the list
QB's: Colt McCoy, Seneca Wallace, Brandon Weeden, Thad Lewis
RB's: Peyton Hillis, Trent Richardson (only respectable year he had was with Shurmur), Montario Hardesty, Chris Ogbonnaya
WR's: Greg Little, Mohammad Massaquoi, Josh Cribbs, Jordan Norwood
TE's: Ben Watson, Jordan Cameron
If anyone can point me to an offensive coach who did more with less than that, I'd love to see it.
He also won 200% of the games the Giants won this year with that roster.
They could have hired Wilks from a minority standpoInt it would have been a plus and given the team a publicity lift something they badly need these days. However the real fact is they got stood up at the altar not once but twice and took the best man hopefully left. The Giants are a team built on a tradition of strong, physical and smash mouth defense they need to return to past glory.
What about coaching football, should that be a requirement or no?
They could have hired Wilks from a minority standpoInt it would have been a plus and given the team a publicity lift something they badly need these days. However the real fact is they got stood up at the altar not once but twice and took the best man hopefully left. The Giants are a team built on a tradition of strong, physical and smash mouth defense they need to return to past glory.
The time the team starts making personnel decisions based strictly off race will be the time I stop being a fan.
I addressed this earlier, take a look at the QBs and WRs on that team. I’ll give you a hint, they were terrible.
All these opinions at this point are based on very little real evidence.
They could have hired Wilks from a minority standpoInt it would have been a plus and given the team a publicity lift something they badly need these days. However the real fact is they got stood up at the altar not once but twice and took the best man hopefully left. The Giants are a team built on a tradition of strong, physical and smash mouth defense they need to return to past glory.
Publicity lift is the least of the Giants worries.
A. QB transition from Eli to ____?
B. Removing the disruptive cancer players.
C. Develop a scoring offense.
D. Develop an respectable OL.
E. Improve the underperforming defense.
F. The list is endless.
All these opinions at this point are based on very little real evidence.
...I wanted Marrone...BBI laughed.