In all likelihood, we were probably taking one regardless, but does this all but confirm it? Considering his success with Bradford in St. Louis, Foles in Philly, & now Keenum in MN, he's somewhat of a 'QB whisper'.
Why would it?
If Shurmer is considered a master at mentoring "lesser" QBs (Keenum was undrafted) why wouldn't it equally signify that the NYGs are interested in passing by a QB at #2 and either trading down or take BPA at #2 and take a QB with long term potential in a lower round?
Why would it?
If Shurmer is considered a master at mentoring "lesser" QBs (Keenum was undrafted) why wouldn't it equally signify that the NYGs are interested in passing by a QB at #2 and either trading down or take BPA at #2 and take a QB with long term potential in a lower round?
Because if Shurmur could turn a lesser QB like Keenum into a solid starting QB what could he do with a far more talented QB like Darnold/Rosen/Allen/Mayfield? Do you want to settle for league average or elite?
The real question is, will Shurmer prefer a West Coast Style QB ? Shurmur may prefer a more mobile QB, who is very accurate on the short and intermediate throws.
Mayfield, Darnold , Allen , and Jackson might be more his preference to a pocket passer
The real question is, will Shurmer prefer a West Coast Style QB ? Shurmur may prefer a more mobile QB, who is very accurate on the short and intermediate throws.
Mayfield, Darnold , Allen , and Jackson might be more his preference to a pocket passer
Rosen is accurate on short and intermediate throws as well.
I just hope they don't draft a QB for the sake of it Â
Take one of these guys if they are actually franchise material, not because you have the #2 pick. Taking a QB pretty much prevents us from investing in a 1st round QB for 2-3 years at least, so they need to get it right.
The real question is, will Shurmer prefer a West Coast Style QB ? Shurmur may prefer a more mobile QB, who is very accurate on the short and intermediate throws.
Mayfield, Darnold , Allen , and Jackson might be more his preference to a pocket passer
Rosen is accurate on short and intermediate throws as well.
Rosen’s accuracy has been compared with fellow UCLA alum, Troy Aikman.
How is taking a guy at 2 who either didn't start or complete 12 of his last 20 college games, with a concussion history, a shoulder that's already had surgery and a knee injury a no brainier?
Unless of course you're saying someone with no brain would take him at 2.
C'mon, Eman. If we don't re-sign Pugh, we'll need someone who is constantly injured. Otherwise who will everyone bitch about?
Haha, I hear ya,
Seriously though his injuries are a big concern for me especially the concussions.
I like his talent and think he's the most NFL ready right now and if it weren't for him being so fragile and the injury concerns I'd be all for the Giants taking him at 2. With them though, I'd pass and if Darnold is gone, look to trade back to 5 with Denver.
Why would he draft a QB ? Keenum does not need any Eli "mentoring".
Of course, that would be then end of Eli in NY It would save some money. Keenum has proven he can play ( but won't come cheap)
If it were to come down like this, that eliminates any perceived need to draft a QB and gives us the opportunity to fix the O-line mess
The Giants are going to cut Eli and take a 12 million dollar cap hit to bring over Case Keenum. Keenum has been a great story this year but if the Giants made this move then Gettleman should be fired on the spot. How is Keenum going to do outdoors with the wind in Giants stadium playing with a suspect OL?
Why would he draft a QB ? Keenum does not need any Eli "mentoring".
Of course, that would be then end of Eli in NY It would save some money. Keenum has proven he can play ( but won't come cheap)
If it were to come down like this, that eliminates any perceived need to draft a QB and gives us the opportunity to fix the O-line mess
The Giants are going to cut Eli and take a 12 million dollar cap hit to bring over Case Keenum. Keenum has been a great story this year but if the Giants made this move then Gettleman should be fired on the spot. How is Keenum going to do outdoors with the wind in Giants stadium playing with a suspect OL?
I think the line will have been addressed by the time Keenum took his first live snap, no?
Why would he draft a QB ? Keenum does not need any Eli "mentoring".
Of course, that would be then end of Eli in NY It would save some money. Keenum has proven he can play ( but won't come cheap)
If it were to come down like this, that eliminates any perceived need to draft a QB and gives us the opportunity to fix the O-line mess
The Giants are going to cut Eli and take a 12 million dollar cap hit to bring over Case Keenum. Keenum has been a great story this year but if the Giants made this move then Gettleman should be fired on the spot. How is Keenum going to do outdoors with the wind in Giants stadium playing with a suspect OL?
I think the line will have been addressed by the time Keenum took his first live snap, no?
What are the odds that the Giants will completely fix the offensive line in one off-season? The Vikings did it last year but now everyone acts as though that is now the norm. The truth is that is an anomaly. The Giants have been trying to fix the offensive line for years and now all of a sudden they are going to fix it in a few months?? We may have an entirely new offensive line next year with the likelihood that Flowers is moving to RT or possibly RG.
Shurmur will spend tons of time with Webb. Working him up and down the agenda.
I suppose In Shurmur perhaps as much or more than other options we have a guy who would be well suited to make such a determination.
Well ahead of the date of the NFL draft.
I get what you are saying but the only way you can know about a quarterback is to have him play during the NFL regular season. The moronic New York Giants didn't do that in 2017, even when the season was long gone.
Shurmur will spend tons of time with Webb. Working him up and down the agenda.
I suppose In Shurmur perhaps as much or more than other options we have a guy who would be well suited to make such a determination.
Well ahead of the date of the NFL draft.
I get what you are saying but the only way you can know about a quarterback is to have him play during the NFL regular season. The moronic New York Giants didn't do that in 2017, even when the season was long gone.
One of dumbest decisions from the McAdoo/Reese decision makers.
Shurmur will spend tons of time with Webb. Working him up and down the agenda.
I suppose In Shurmur perhaps as much or more than other options we have a guy who would be well suited to make such a determination.
Well ahead of the date of the NFL draft.
I get what you are saying but the only way you can know about a quarterback is to have him play during the NFL regular season. The moronic New York Giants didn't do that in 2017, even when the season was long gone.
To be fair, they had to find out what they had in Geno Smith...
Shurmur will spend tons of time with Webb. Working him up and down the agenda.
I suppose In Shurmur perhaps as much or more than other options we have a guy who would be well suited to make such a determination.
Well ahead of the date of the NFL draft.
I get what you are saying but the only way you can know about a quarterback is to have him play during the NFL regular season. The moronic New York Giants didn't do that in 2017, even when the season was long gone.
To be fair, they had to find out what they had in Geno Smith...
Why, they didn't invest a 3rd round pick in him like they did Webb.
Shurmur will spend tons of time with Webb. Working him up and down the agenda.
I suppose In Shurmur perhaps as much or more than other options we have a guy who would be well suited to make such a determination.
Well ahead of the date of the NFL draft.
I get what you are saying but the only way you can know about a quarterback is to have him play during the NFL regular season. The moronic New York Giants didn't do that in 2017, even when the season was long gone.
To be fair, they had to find out what they had in Geno Smith...
Why? They knew exactly what they had in Geno Smith. And despite what McAdoo said to Mr. Mara or the press, I don't believe he had any intention of putting Webb in this year. If my memory serves me correctly, he was the only one pushing to get Smith on the team prior to his signing. I suspect he wanted to get Geno on the field to prove his system would work- all he needed was a mobile QB not named Eli Manning.
But, Reese did try - two #1s (Pugh, Flowers); two #2s (Beatty & Richburg), but it didn't work. He (and his staff) just weren't good at picking out good O-line talent . It eventually cost him his job.
So ... the Giants reality is to start over. They have the 2nd pick overall; how often does a GOOD team (six AP ALL-PROs in 2016). First team - Harrison, Collins, Beckham); Second team - Vernon, Jenkins, DRC . ...
Pick 2nd over-all in the draft - THAT is not just an anomaly, it's a rare & Golden opportunity.
we're getting a QB. So unless they think their guy may still be there after a tradedown (And with the 2nd pick they WILL get offers!) I'd expect it anyway. Hope the #1 reason it's Shurmur isn't because he'll just do whatever he's told.
The Wildcard? Mayfield! There's talent there, and if Shurmur wants a mobile QB, could he see a better Case Keenum?
The Browns drafted Trent Richardson with their first pick of the first round when Shurmur was there (Brandon Weeden later in the first). You think he learned his lesson from that?
I thought the sarcasm would be obvious in any mention of Geno Smith Â
Shurmur will spend tons of time with Webb. Working him up and down the agenda.
I suppose In Shurmur perhaps as much or more than other options we have a guy who would be well suited to make such a determination.
Well ahead of the date of the NFL draft.
I get what you are saying but the only way you can know about a quarterback is to have him play during the NFL regular season. The moronic New York Giants didn't do that in 2017, even when the season was long gone.
Well, they wanted to but the fans flipped out.
If they covet a QB available at #2, he'll be the pick Â
In the normal world, you are probably correct. On this board, it probably needs to be specified because while you are being sarcastic, there are a plethora of idiots that hold such opinions to be part of their core beliefs.
I don't think the team knows what it wants to do yet ... Â
Films will be reviewed, there will be many meetings between HC and GM, player evaluations still need to occur. Then they have to decide if Webb can be the future QB, how long they plan to hitch the cart to Eli, do they think they can make a SB run in the next year or two, etc.... Nothing is in stone at this point.
Sitting at 2, with Eli where he is in his career, and not picking a QB Â
to Draft a QB just cuz its a need. This isn't fantasy football guys. You don't pick on need. When you're this high you pick BPA. Now with an older QB if there is a QB that you love there then you take him. IF!!!! To me that QB is Darnold but he will not be there. In that case I do NOT pick Rosen just because he's a QB with good physical abilities. This kid does not IMO have the mental capacity to be a great or good pro QB...not one worth the #2 pick. In that case, if the Giants also feel that way you DON'T take a QB. I don't care if your coach is the all time guru of QB's. You take BPA....and that is...Barkley. Or you can trade down.
Zepp- you are a very very very smart man. This is how I feel exactly.
why QB @ #2 is almost a slam dunk ... BUT we are forgetting the Minny QB situation. We will need a #2 vet regardless if we are trying to get another SB this upcoming season. Then What about Bridgewater or Bradford behind Eli hell even an open competition. If Bridgewater's knee checks out the options at 2 open up immensely.
They will not keep both.
This is assuming the new GM, HC and OC don't like Webb at all (#3). If they think he can be a franchise QB then again we are in for an interesting off-season and draft with options.
researched Webb and like what they see. They are both smart guys who know the position and what they can do with talent at that position. That would be great for us and save our #2 for something else. Wishful thinking.
Was going to possibly be the next coach, my mind immediately told me that the #2 selection was now going to be a QB. Then I started to think about it more, and researched Shurmur a bit more, and you see what he has done with all of these average to below average QBs (Keenum, Foles, McCoy, Bradford). He was able to coax above average to great seasons out of some average QBs.
You also see that almost everywhere he has gone, he has had ELITE running backs (Westbrook, McCoy, Steven Jackson, drafted Cook this year). He puts a heavy emphasis in the run game.
That leads me to believe that he can possibly make do with what he has right now with Eli and Webb, while drafting a Quarterback in rounds 2-4 to compete with Webb for the future spot. If he can make all of the previous QBs look good, he probably figures he can do the same with a much more talented QB in Eli for possibly 2 more years.
Was going to possibly be the next coach, my mind immediately told me that the #2 selection was now going to be a QB. Then I started to think about it more, and researched Shurmur a bit more, and you see what he has done with all of these average to below average QBs (Keenum, Foles, McCoy, Bradford). He was able to coax above average to great seasons out of some average QBs.
You also see that almost everywhere he has gone, he has had ELITE running backs (Westbrook, McCoy, Steven Jackson, drafted Cook this year). He puts a heavy emphasis in the run game.
That leads me to believe that he can possibly make do with what he has right now with Eli and Webb, while drafting a Quarterback in rounds 2-4 to compete with Webb for the future spot. If he can make all of the previous QBs look good, he probably figures he can do the same with a much more talented QB in Eli for possibly 2 more years.
Your theory if correct could bring Saquon Barkley into play at #2 .
With a lot of people on here but probably the best QB for Shurmer system is Baker Mayfield and it’s quite possible we may be able to get him and extra picks. I prefer Rosen and I think we should stay away from Darnold.
With a lot of people on here but probably the best QB for Shurmer system is Baker Mayfield and it’s quite possible we may be able to get him and extra picks. I prefer Rosen and I think we should stay away from Darnold.
I actually agree with this, but if Mayfield is your guy, you take him at 2. It's QB, you don't play around trying to squeeze out every drop of value at that position. It's too important to get right.
The flip side is that they could think Shurmur will resurrect Eli while developing Webb.
But lets hope they decide they have the future set with Shurmur and Rosen.
resurrecting a 38 year old QB, really, I doubt it....
He doesnt need to be resurrected. He just needs some damn help. You have to at least see what he has to offer with a decent OL and a threat of a running game.
If Shurmer is considered a master at mentoring "lesser" QBs (Keenum was undrafted) why wouldn't it equally signify that the NYGs are interested in passing by a QB at #2 and either trading down or take BPA at #2 and take a QB with long term potential in a lower round?
If Shurmer is considered a master at mentoring "lesser" QBs (Keenum was undrafted) why wouldn't it equally signify that the NYGs are interested in passing by a QB at #2 and either trading down or take BPA at #2 and take a QB with long term potential in a lower round?
Because if Shurmur could turn a lesser QB like Keenum into a solid starting QB what could he do with a far more talented QB like Darnold/Rosen/Allen/Mayfield? Do you want to settle for league average or elite?
Mayfield, Darnold , Allen , and Jackson might be more his preference to a pocket passer
Mayfield, Darnold , Allen , and Jackson might be more his preference to a pocket passer
Rosen is accurate on short and intermediate throws as well.
Why would he draft a QB ? Keenum does not need any Eli "mentoring".
Of course, that would be then end of Eli in NY It would save some money. Keenum has proven he can play ( but won't come cheap)
If it were to come down like this, that eliminates any perceived need to draft a QB and gives us the opportunity to fix the O-line mess
Quote:
The real question is, will Shurmer prefer a West Coast Style QB ? Shurmur may prefer a more mobile QB, who is very accurate on the short and intermediate throws.
Mayfield, Darnold , Allen , and Jackson might be more his preference to a pocket passer
Rosen is accurate on short and intermediate throws as well.
Rosen’s accuracy has been compared with fellow UCLA alum, Troy Aikman.
The $$ part of dumping Eli.
http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2017/11/will_giants_cut_eli_manning_now_in_2018_salary_cap.html
Quote:
In comment 13791243 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
No brainer.
How is taking a guy at 2 who either didn't start or complete 12 of his last 20 college games, with a concussion history, a shoulder that's already had surgery and a knee injury a no brainier?
Unless of course you're saying someone with no brain would take him at 2.
C'mon, Eman. If we don't re-sign Pugh, we'll need someone who is constantly injured. Otherwise who will everyone bitch about?
Haha, I hear ya,
Seriously though his injuries are a big concern for me especially the concussions.
I like his talent and think he's the most NFL ready right now and if it weren't for him being so fragile and the injury concerns I'd be all for the Giants taking him at 2. With them though, I'd pass and if Darnold is gone, look to trade back to 5 with Denver.
Why would he draft a QB ? Keenum does not need any Eli "mentoring".
Of course, that would be then end of Eli in NY It would save some money. Keenum has proven he can play ( but won't come cheap)
If it were to come down like this, that eliminates any perceived need to draft a QB and gives us the opportunity to fix the O-line mess
The Giants are going to cut Eli and take a 12 million dollar cap hit to bring over Case Keenum. Keenum has been a great story this year but if the Giants made this move then Gettleman should be fired on the spot. How is Keenum going to do outdoors with the wind in Giants stadium playing with a suspect OL?
I suppose In Shurmur perhaps as much or more than other options we have a guy who would be well suited to make such a determination.
Well ahead of the date of the NFL draft.
Quote:
Why would he draft a QB ? Keenum does not need any Eli "mentoring".
Of course, that would be then end of Eli in NY It would save some money. Keenum has proven he can play ( but won't come cheap)
If it were to come down like this, that eliminates any perceived need to draft a QB and gives us the opportunity to fix the O-line mess
The Giants are going to cut Eli and take a 12 million dollar cap hit to bring over Case Keenum. Keenum has been a great story this year but if the Giants made this move then Gettleman should be fired on the spot. How is Keenum going to do outdoors with the wind in Giants stadium playing with a suspect OL?
I think the line will have been addressed by the time Keenum took his first live snap, no?
Quote:
In comment 13791356 Manny in CA said:
Quote:
Why would he draft a QB ? Keenum does not need any Eli "mentoring".
Of course, that would be then end of Eli in NY It would save some money. Keenum has proven he can play ( but won't come cheap)
If it were to come down like this, that eliminates any perceived need to draft a QB and gives us the opportunity to fix the O-line mess
The Giants are going to cut Eli and take a 12 million dollar cap hit to bring over Case Keenum. Keenum has been a great story this year but if the Giants made this move then Gettleman should be fired on the spot. How is Keenum going to do outdoors with the wind in Giants stadium playing with a suspect OL?
I think the line will have been addressed by the time Keenum took his first live snap, no?
What are the odds that the Giants will completely fix the offensive line in one off-season? The Vikings did it last year but now everyone acts as though that is now the norm. The truth is that is an anomaly. The Giants have been trying to fix the offensive line for years and now all of a sudden they are going to fix it in a few months?? We may have an entirely new offensive line next year with the likelihood that Flowers is moving to RT or possibly RG.
Just mention it because it has been mentioned here - as a point of discussion.
Whether it's Eli, Keenum or anybody else, as long as we're stuck with this O-line that QB is going to struggle.
I suppose In Shurmur perhaps as much or more than other options we have a guy who would be well suited to make such a determination.
Well ahead of the date of the NFL draft.
I get what you are saying but the only way you can know about a quarterback is to have him play during the NFL regular season. The moronic New York Giants didn't do that in 2017, even when the season was long gone.
Quote:
Shurmur will spend tons of time with Webb. Working him up and down the agenda.
I suppose In Shurmur perhaps as much or more than other options we have a guy who would be well suited to make such a determination.
Well ahead of the date of the NFL draft.
I get what you are saying but the only way you can know about a quarterback is to have him play during the NFL regular season. The moronic New York Giants didn't do that in 2017, even when the season was long gone.
One of dumbest decisions from the McAdoo/Reese decision makers.
Quote:
Shurmur will spend tons of time with Webb. Working him up and down the agenda.
I suppose In Shurmur perhaps as much or more than other options we have a guy who would be well suited to make such a determination.
Well ahead of the date of the NFL draft.
I get what you are saying but the only way you can know about a quarterback is to have him play during the NFL regular season. The moronic New York Giants didn't do that in 2017, even when the season was long gone.
To be fair, they had to find out what they had in Geno Smith...
Quote:
In comment 13791370 Beezer said:
Quote:
Shurmur will spend tons of time with Webb. Working him up and down the agenda.
I suppose In Shurmur perhaps as much or more than other options we have a guy who would be well suited to make such a determination.
Well ahead of the date of the NFL draft.
I get what you are saying but the only way you can know about a quarterback is to have him play during the NFL regular season. The moronic New York Giants didn't do that in 2017, even when the season was long gone.
To be fair, they had to find out what they had in Geno Smith...
Why, they didn't invest a 3rd round pick in him like they did Webb.
Quote:
In comment 13791370 Beezer said:
Quote:
Shurmur will spend tons of time with Webb. Working him up and down the agenda.
I suppose In Shurmur perhaps as much or more than other options we have a guy who would be well suited to make such a determination.
Well ahead of the date of the NFL draft.
I get what you are saying but the only way you can know about a quarterback is to have him play during the NFL regular season. The moronic New York Giants didn't do that in 2017, even when the season was long gone.
To be fair, they had to find out what they had in Geno Smith...
Why? They knew exactly what they had in Geno Smith. And despite what McAdoo said to Mr. Mara or the press, I don't believe he had any intention of putting Webb in this year. If my memory serves me correctly, he was the only one pushing to get Smith on the team prior to his signing. I suspect he wanted to get Geno on the field to prove his system would work- all he needed was a mobile QB not named Eli Manning.
But, Reese did try - two #1s (Pugh, Flowers); two #2s (Beatty & Richburg), but it didn't work. He (and his staff) just weren't good at picking out good O-line talent . It eventually cost him his job.
So ... the Giants reality is to start over. They have the 2nd pick overall; how often does a GOOD team (six AP ALL-PROs in 2016). First team - Harrison, Collins, Beckham); Second team - Vernon, Jenkins, DRC . ...
Pick 2nd over-all in the draft - THAT is not just an anomaly, it's a rare & Golden opportunity.
The Wildcard? Mayfield! There's talent there, and if Shurmur wants a mobile QB, could he see a better Case Keenum?
The Browns drafted Trent Richardson with their first pick of the first round when Shurmur was there (Brandon Weeden later in the first). You think he learned his lesson from that?
...then the Giants are saying, "We believe Eli Manning can take us deep into the playoffs and a shot at the Super Bowl."
To which I would reply, "We are royally screwed."
I'm sure he'll evaluate him on tape, as will DG.
Quote:
Shurmur will spend tons of time with Webb. Working him up and down the agenda.
I suppose In Shurmur perhaps as much or more than other options we have a guy who would be well suited to make such a determination.
Well ahead of the date of the NFL draft.
I get what you are saying but the only way you can know about a quarterback is to have him play during the NFL regular season. The moronic New York Giants didn't do that in 2017, even when the season was long gone.
Well, they wanted to but the fans flipped out.
In the normal world, you are probably correct. On this board, it probably needs to be specified because while you are being sarcastic, there are a plethora of idiots that hold such opinions to be part of their core beliefs.
No thanks.
I think if it is Shurmur, trade down and maybe snag Mayfield. The QB whisperer with Baker would be awesome!
Zepp- you are a very very very smart man. This is how I feel exactly.
They will not keep both.
This is assuming the new GM, HC and OC don't like Webb at all (#3). If they think he can be a franchise QB then again we are in for an interesting off-season and draft with options.
No thanks.
I think if it is Shurmur, trade down and maybe snag Mayfield. The QB whisperer with Baker would be awesome!
You also see that almost everywhere he has gone, he has had ELITE running backs (Westbrook, McCoy, Steven Jackson, drafted Cook this year). He puts a heavy emphasis in the run game.
That leads me to believe that he can possibly make do with what he has right now with Eli and Webb, while drafting a Quarterback in rounds 2-4 to compete with Webb for the future spot. If he can make all of the previous QBs look good, he probably figures he can do the same with a much more talented QB in Eli for possibly 2 more years.
You also see that almost everywhere he has gone, he has had ELITE running backs (Westbrook, McCoy, Steven Jackson, drafted Cook this year). He puts a heavy emphasis in the run game.
That leads me to believe that he can possibly make do with what he has right now with Eli and Webb, while drafting a Quarterback in rounds 2-4 to compete with Webb for the future spot. If he can make all of the previous QBs look good, he probably figures he can do the same with a much more talented QB in Eli for possibly 2 more years.
I actually agree with this, but if Mayfield is your guy, you take him at 2. It's QB, you don't play around trying to squeeze out every drop of value at that position. It's too important to get right.
But lets hope they decide they have the future set with Shurmur and Rosen.
resurrecting a 38 year old QB, really, I doubt it....
Quote:
The flip side is that they could think Shurmur will resurrect Eli while developing Webb.
But lets hope they decide they have the future set with Shurmur and Rosen.
resurrecting a 38 year old QB, really, I doubt it....
He doesnt need to be resurrected. He just needs some damn help. You have to at least see what he has to offer with a decent OL and a threat of a running game.
Quote:
would be gross negligence...
Unless the team thinks they already have their future QB and wants to roll the dice to strengthen the team in other areas.
My statement stands...
They found out this year why the guy never played. He was not ready and terrible
Maybe Webb wasnt ready? What that means is that he would be a danger to himself and others on the field