| • The Giants were always going to prioritize finding their type of guy—candidates were going to have to fit them, not the other way around—and that’s a reason why Shurmur landed the job in New York. The Vikings offensive coordinator has an easy way about him, and has shown a great ability to manage crisis over the last two years in Minnesota. His work with the quarterbacks hasn’t been bad either, which should help in making a decision on Eli Manning’s future, and what to do with the second pick. |
Some people will look at this as a negative, but it makes sense. The Giants operate a certain way and it has worked. Only team in the NFL to have a Super Bowl title in each of the last 4 decades in addition to another appearance in 2000. A lot of teams are trying to adopt the Patriots way & the Packers stayed in house for their hire.
Reading this makes me think Shurmur was the guy all along. If you recall, Garafolo & Rapoport never bought into the idea that Patricia was a lock, and Rapoport was touting Shurmur for the gig. It’s clear McDaniels wanted a say in the GM or in the least wanted experience working with him, and ultimately that’s what Patricia opted for as well. All things considered, Shurmur checks off the boxes and has the experience Mara wanted.
ryanmkeane : 9:34 am : link : reply
how can you say you'd support any hire based on the way the last hire went down? It's pretty apparent that Mara completely made the wrong choice in McAdoo and made the wrong choice in letting Reese stay on 2 years ago. He also royally fucked up the Eli thing (which I'm over at this point).
Mara has been faced with multiple big time decisions and the results have not been good with any of them. How can you blindly trust this hire?
It isn't easy to stay competitive in the NFL. I didn't agree with retaining Reese, as I'd have let him go with Coughlin, but it is really tough to make those calls. Reese built a SB team. He has managed the cap well. He's been a steady GM. He also has blind spots at LB and OL and his attempts to address those positions failed and caused dominoes to tumble. McAdoo was simply a bad hire, but it's easy to see why he was brought on board. The offense under him as OC was productive. Nevermind that it was basically TC's offense.
People get caught up in lineage, even BBI does. Look at the calls for Pats assistants. Look at the love for GB people. McAdoo was a GB guy, and he tried to bring their offense here. Mara, like many of us, failed to see that absent Rodgers, that offense blows. But people get blinded by the GB mystique.
Hell, several BBI'ers were critical that the team didn't look at Eliot Wolf. Why? Because his dad is Ron and he's with GB?
It happens. As a fan, I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt, partially out of homerism, and partially out of a lack of information to the contrary. We'll all see if it fails, so at least enjoy this time now as one with hope.
That's the way I look at it, yet I'm often called a grumpy bastard.
The only hire I'd be very critical of is McDaniels and that's only because I have inside info on how much of a dick he is and how he isn't respected by players or team support staff.
Being a dick isn't a game-breaker. Not having respect is - you can't lead without respect. Indy probably fits him well so he can outdick Irsay.
After watching him get bitch-slapped by Brady on national television this year, I had very little faith in him as a HC.
But Shurmur is well-travelled "journeyman" who was 9-23 in Cleveland (admittedly a tough situation, but still a .281 winning percentage) who hasn't been high on anyone's wish list for HC since. In fact, two years ago, he was "only" a tight ends coach until his promotion to OC again.
He's a coach's coach. Again, the word everyone seems to use with him is "solid."
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Who exactly are the “inspiring” candidates that you think they should have interviewed? And why does being mild mannered equal “safe”? How is Shurmur a safer pick than anyone else? Does having more experience equal safe? And why is safe a bad thing? Why would you assume Shurmers ceiling is lower than any random coach with no HC experience?
I think I answered all of your questions above.
You listed Gruden, Cowher and Belichek as your unsafe options. Gruden was obviously going to the Raiders for $100M. Cowher has said a billion times that he’s not interested in coaching and Belichek has a job and I’m sure Kraft would just go ahead and let him interview with the Giants. Come on now. I’m surprised you didn’t mention Parcells too
Owner picks the players?
I just learned something today about NYG.
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Pure speculation on my part, but this definitely feels like Mara. (But what do I know?)
I just hope Shurmur has a behind-the-scenes edge to him because he will need it with this group.
Apparently he’s a huge hard ass who Andy Reid told to lighten up a bit. Lighten up Francis - ( New Window )
Well, that's a bit concerning
Holmgren also noted that Shurmur read every word that was written when he was running the Browns, something he won’t be able to do in New York because there will be a lot more words.
“I told him, ‘You can’t let it get to you,'” Holmgren said. “‘Don’t create an adversarial situation.’ I tried to counsel him that way.”
If Shurmur brings in his own new staff, then I am completely wrong and would be happy to say so.
If Spagnuolo, and a lot of his defensive coaches stick around, this is going to be accepted by a fanbase that has been calling out and frustrated by "half measure" type decisions dating back to 2013 now.
I guess we'll find out soon enough.
Shurmur is by all accounts a good man and a good coach. He just seems so god damn sleepy, but as discussed, let's hope he has some understated fire in there that can get this team going.
Not a good lead-in to your post.
That's fair. I like Gettleman and think he was the right choice. But ultimately, it looked like Mara picked the coach.
This time, I feel that Gettleman has a voice and that the out of the pool they interviewed that they made the best choice. I preferred Patricia, but that's absent any real knowledge, just feel as a fan.
I at least understand this hire. I understood the TC hire. I never understood the Mac hire.
The Gruden-Cowher-Belichick picks are obviously more long-shot type selections, but Gruden has been linked to the Giants in the past. So has Cowher (who despite what he has said publicly, those close to him have said he would consider the Giants...might not be a good idea, but I wonder if this was even considered?). As for Belichick... again there is public posturing and what people say and feel in private. Likely? Hell no. But impossible? I would wager not.
This time, I feel that Gettleman has a voice and that the out of the pool they interviewed that they made the best choice. I preferred Patricia, but that's absent any real knowledge, just feel as a fan.
I at least understand this hire. I understood the TC hire. I never understood the Mac hire.
Agree with this too.
John Fox?
Lovie Smith?
Those guys to me would be "safe" treadmill picks, you know what you are going to get.
Flip side of that coin is a young coordinator, can you find the next Sean Mcvay? We tried already and got McAdoo.
So unless we're coaxing TC back or looking at Wilks as some kind of savior, didn't we just get the best guy out there?
It will be VERY interesting to see how Shurmur deals with Odell Beckham.
That is a good question, but it can't be worse than McAdoo.
BB's coaching tree has produced more failures than successes, if any successes.
Wilks - position coach who could relate to players.
Don't forget, he's not coaching by himself - he'll have coordinators - position coaches.
RE" mismanagement - I think they had the right plan but really bad execution. Fix the O-Line was job 1 - 2 number 1s and a 2, and some high round FAs - abysmal ROI
Are we sure that McAdoo was Mara’s hire?
The "best guy out there"? Odds say no. It's a crapshoot. There are dozens and dozens of candidates who were qualified who weren't interviewed. Again, think of successful OCs and DCs around the league. Think coaching ranks. Many teams go VERY risky and hire the younger "up-and-coming" coordinator now.
The downside to this is the risk. (See McAdoo) McDaniels was the hot coordinator hired by Denver and that was a disaster. Belichick failed in Cleveland and went onto become the greatest ever in New England. Cowher was a special teams coach who went onto great success. Landry was a DC. Etc., etc.
I understand the rationale for Shurmur... solid, safe, unlikely to flame out, great with QBs on a team that is going to make a QB transition. He may have been the best given the situation right now. But the upside is the question mark. Can he inspire and lead a team? Can he handle Eli Apple, Odell Beckham, Janoris Jenkins, etc.?
Are we sure that McAdoo was Mara’s hire?
People started saying that just to be able to vent their frustration at the team. Nobody actually has any information there.
But my bigger concern would be loyalty - he's a god in Alabama, what's to say he won't walk away like he did in Miami.
Bellichek was never coming here, never
Most fans are like, "OK, he's good. We could have done worse."
Again, this may be the best moving forward, but let's not kid ourselves. I wrote what I did above before I read Paul Schwartz's column this morning. This is what he said:
A: It is a safe choice, a solid choice, perhaps not the most inspiring choice, but it is hard to say it is the wrong choice. Picking a coach on the offensive side of the ball is smart, as now there will not be a go-between when it comes to the head coach dealing with the quarterback. There are no red flags with Shurmur, no worry about his compatibility with the Giants’ structure. Is he a renowned motivator when addressing the whole room? That is supposedly not his forte, but we shall see.
A Spagnuolo return? What Pat Shurmur means for Giants - ( New Window )
Also, doesnt fit the mold of the CEO type Gettleman says he was looking for.
For example, last August, I started questioning Brandon Marshall's play as we were getting no reports out of camp about him making any plays. I was basically told to pipe down.
When we hired McAdoo, I was hopeful but had concerns. I largely kept those quiet.
Moving forward - again, with the understanding that the Giants no longer get the benefit of the doubt in my mind - I intend to question things more.
If this considered being "too negative", so be it.
I'm less concerned with how he handles high maintenance guys - I'm more concerned with his pick of coordinators and what his take on the O-Line is.
I'm less concerned with how he handles high maintenance guys - I'm more concerned with his pick of coordinators and what his take on the O-Line is.
Yeah, I mentioned above that both Shurmur and Patricia wowed them. (supposedly)
That may be overrated. Certainly there are moments in time, events, when you need that - personally I think a lot has to do with getting the right players - isn't that what BB or even Parcells does? "His guys"
Schwartz - m-eh, okay but certainly no burning bush.
I've got no clue if this guy is the right pick, but obviously we all hope for the best.
Next big questions - what does he think of Webb, or the draft QBs. WTF is wrong with the O-Line and how to fix it - along those lines - who will his coordinators be?
I think it will be way more interesting if he doesn't take Spags.
I'm less concerned with how he handles high maintenance guys - I'm more concerned with his pick of coordinators and what his take on the O-Line is.
ITA as it pertains to Odell Beckham in particular. I think 99% of the stuff with Odell is overblown horsecrap anyway. If Odell blows off practice or isn't giving his all on the field... call me then. The guys doing that horseshit are the people a coach really has to worry about.
I also agree that the future coaching staff is a major early barometer for Shurmur. I like Spags A LOT, but I think this team needs new voices/eyes and the defensive room in particular needs an experienced "heavy hand". In addition, there's NO WAY POSSIBLE that Tom Quinn can still have a job here.
The other issue with Shurmur is he is pretty milktoast.
What the hell is milktoast?
Most fans are like, "OK, he's good. We could have done worse."
Again, this may be the best moving forward, but let's not kid ourselves. I wrote what I did above before I read Paul Schwartz's column this morning. This is what he said:
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Q: Is this a good choice for the Giants?
A: It is a safe choice, a solid choice, perhaps not the most inspiring choice, but it is hard to say it is the wrong choice. Picking a coach on the offensive side of the ball is smart, as now there will not be a go-between when it comes to the head coach dealing with the quarterback. There are no red flags with Shurmur, no worry about his compatibility with the Giants’ structure. Is he a renowned motivator when addressing the whole room? That is supposedly not his forte, but we shall see.
A Spagnuolo return? What Pat Shurmur means for Giants - ( New Window )
If Shurmur was 10 years (a la McDaniels), or even 5 years, younger would the choice be viewed as more "inspired"? Both have had success as OCs and flopped as HCs (spectacularly in JMs case).
Fans, rightly or wrongly, view PS as a "retread' with all its negative connotations because he's >50, whereas JM is a rising star.
I wanted a defensive guy (Patricia), but Shurmur is definitely a good choice and has the experience and connections to put together a strong staff. I also love that he's shown an ability to adapt his offensive philosophy to maximize the talent he has. On paper at least, there's no way that Vikings offense should be more productive than this Giants O.
I also think you are putting too much stock in Shurmur's "milktoast" demeanor. Not all successful coaches have been spit-spewing, sideline lunatics like Cowher. I know you know that.
What the hell is milktoast?
bland or uninteresting.
For whatever reason, I really like the verb outdick and I suggest we all try to use it in at least three sentences this week.
Wow factor dont win games. Coaching and talent does. I dont care if he is a HOT name or not.