I wouldn't exactly call it a ringing endorsement - bit of a mixed bag....
“He’s kind of quiet and kind of serious,” Holmgren told the Daily News on Monday night. “I’m not that serious. It’s hard for him to shoot the breeze. He’s really bright and works really hard. He has a good way about him with his staff. I’m disappointed he didn’t come in and talk to me enough. I was down the hall. I wish Pat had done that with me more. They want to do their own thing and don’t want to show they don’t know what is going on. I understand that. I’m really happy for him that it looks like he’s getting another chance.”
A cautionary tale: Holmgren told Shurmur he was letting the media in Cleveland bother him too much. “He read everything. He knew everything that was said,” Holmgren said. “I told him, ‘You can’t let it get to you. Don’t create an adversarial situation.’ I tried to counsel him that way.” |
I should warn everyone it's a Gary Myers story.
NYDailyNews - (
New Window )
Who cares. Holmgren at the Browns, was like Phil Jackson running the Knicks. They both didn't want to give 100% effort where they were, and wanted to half ass it.
Oh well. We know next to nothing about the interviews and what the Giants are looking for. We can only hope they've made the right decision, regardless of who they pick.
As long as he isn't arrogant, the NY media will give him a pass next year ( for sure) and most likely in '19 with a new QB.
After that, all bets are off.
I look forward to having this offense show some fucking life !!!!
The NY media is multiple times bigger than Cleveland and he absolutely needs to put on the blinders about what is being written and focus on the team.
hope it's not accurate or that he's learned well from his experiences.
Part of the reason he did survive is because his family basically told him what the media was saying and how it was effecting them. In turn, he softened up a little bit and created the players union/voice thing. Also, he let the players see him from a non coaching view.
He's got three rings as a coach. He can talk about coaching.
Am I wrong or hasn't Holmgren done this before and thrown people under the bus?
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Was a shitty GM so
He's got three rings as a coach. He can talk about coaching.
I'm willing to bet they didn't get along. Him being a shitty GM is probably why he feels the way he does about the guys under him.
This was 7/8 years ago on the worst franchise in sports, who cares?
WCO guy, meek & mild. Never established himself as a HC/CEO type.
But hey - he's Irish and he does what he's told.
Mara is freaking me out the last few years. Nothing to inspire confidence.
Hope like hell I'm wrong.
http://www.cleveland.com/livingston/index.ssf/2012/10/coach_mike_holmgren_was_out_of.html - ( New Window )
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In comment 13791859 cokeduplt said:
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Was a shitty GM so
He's got three rings as a coach. He can talk about coaching.
I'm willing to bet they didn't get along. Him being a shitty GM is probably why he feels the way he does about the guys under him.
This was 7/8 years ago on the worst franchise in sports, who cares?
Did you read the article? It wasn't a hit piece.
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Was a shitty GM so
He's got three rings as a coach. He can talk about coaching.
He just has an axe to grind because he gave Shurmur little talent to work with. Anyone who made the first round picks he made in 2012 should keep his mouth shut about critiquing the coach who had to deal with the results.
Am I wrong or hasn't Holmgren done this before and thrown people under the bus?
He absolutely has, rare to see him speak glowingly of peers.
WCO guy, meek & mild. Never established himself as a HC/CEO type.
But hey - he's Irish and he does what he's told.
Mara is freaking me out the last few years. Nothing to inspire confidence.
Hope like hell I'm wrong.
What does being Irish have to do with him getting the job?
No, don't really have an interest in it. Going off of what's been posted.
WCO guy, meek & mild. Never established himself as a HC/CEO type.
But hey - he's Irish and he does what he's told.
Mara is freaking me out the last few years. Nothing to inspire confidence.
Hope like hell I'm wrong.
I thought he was German.
LOL, this board....
Maybe Shurmur wouldn't have had to deal with the media so much in Cleveland if Holmgren knew how to draft worth a damn.
Yikes...
LOL, this board....
Arc, the stupidity sometimes is mind boggling. And the lengths people will go to criticize someone knows no bounds.
I am in agreement that he was a safe hire for Mara. That's all.
I am in agreement that he was a safe hire for Mara. That's all.
Again, why did you bring up that he's Irish? WTF does that have to do with anything? A really bizarre comment.
I stand corrected.
A thin skin is not going work well in NY and most feedback has been is that Shurmur is quiet and introverted.
I think Mara got too caught up in a guy that can fix the offense and looked passed a lot of other factors.
How is this guy ever going to control OBJ?
Shurmur is a German surname.
The worst thing the guy did this year was use a TD celebration that was probably in poor taste.
You'd think the guy needs a personal chaperone like Dez Bryant because he can't control himself anywhere he goes the way people talk about him.
Good lord.
A thin skin is not going work well in NY and most feedback has been is that Shurmur is quiet and introverted.
I think Mara got too caught up in a guy that can fix the offense and looked passed a lot of other factors.
How is this guy ever going to control OBJ?
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Hey, I'm Irish too. It was not intended as a racist comment. It was intended as a "safe" comment.
I am in agreement that he was a safe hire for Mara. That's all.
Again, why did you bring up that he's Irish? WTF does that have to do with anything? A really bizarre comment.
I apologize if I offended you, and if he's German I apologize for calling him Irish.
But I don't like the hire and it has nothing to do with his race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. I just don't think he's the right guy to be Head Coach of the NY Giants. We'll see.
Perfect example why a coach on his second try can make slight changes to make it a positive experience instead of a negative one.
Pete44 : 10:50 am : link : reply
This is an underwhelming hire to me, typical Giants. Very lazy and inside the box. It is how we ended up with Ben McAdoo.
This hire was nothing like the McAdoo hire. First off, we hired a GM first and let him line up candidates.
Secondly, we reportedly did intensive interviews with several candidates - and unlike previous years, information wasn't leaked. At one point, every guy interviewed was mentioned as the favorite.
Third, the Giants went outside the organization and hired a guy who previously had HC coaching experience.
Maybe you don't like the hire, but to call it lazy and inside the box has become like a fucked up meme, posted by morons who neither know what it means nor that it doesn't even fucking apply.
playoff appearances and 1 Super Bowl win.
Am I wrong or hasn't Holmgren done this before and thrown people under the bus?
Holmgren does come off as a dick here.
That plus the fact that its a piece of Myers suggests that it's worth taking all this with a grain of salt.
Actually NO i dont..
does Holgrem know the man NOW or the man 15 years ago...
The Giants lined up candidates last time around as well, including Doug Marrone and ultimately hired Ben McAdoo.
In my mind, the Giants do things in a very lazy and half hearted manner, some of it is loyalty, but most of it is being conservative in their thinking.
They needed a complete reboot this time around and hired a GM, probably because they were familiar and I just don't think this particular coach is head coach material.
I feel some outside the box thinking was required like the Rams did with McVay.
I guess at the end of the day, after the season they had, I was hoping for a completely fresh view of the organization and the potential for doing things a bit differently.
I hope I'm wrong and I probably will be as DG seems different and maybe Shurmur learns from his past coaching experiences.
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Why wouldn't you care what his opinion is?
Actually NO i dont..
does Holgrem know the man NOW or the man 15 years ago...
It was 2012. What are you doing?
come on now...can he get the job first before we call it a failure?
I'm more interested to see how the Giants go about fixing the holes in the roster more than the coaching vacancies. My only big concern with respect to the coaching changes is whether or not Spags stays or goes. I want nothing to do with him. I don't think he's a very good coordinator. I think he did a decent job with a group of patchwork players in 2007 and that grossly overrated his ability to utilize his personnel properly. If the giants are going to move on from the old regime, I'd really like a clean, fresh start on both sides of the ball.
What exactly was so outside-the-box about hiring McVay compared to Shurmur? His age? Is that it?
The guy has coached some of the worst defenses in recent NFL history with a couple of good years sprinkled in.
Let the new coach pick his staff, if Shurmur keeps Spags only reinforces my fear of this choice.
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Was a shitty GM so
He's got three rings as a coach. He can talk about coaching.
Still a shitty GM whine fav e Shurmur shitty players to work with
Not liking the hire is fine. But taking such an absurd stance is ridiculous.
Um.....swell?
Your impression of why McVay was a good hire was that no one else interviewed him? Am I understanding this properly?
Some of the things I read here...
I'm sorry John Mara's approach to picking coaches and GMs seems very lazy and uninspired to me. He is consistently recycling guys and not giving this organization the obvious change in culture it needs.
I'm not saying that Mcvay was a good hire because nobody else interviewed him.
I'm saying he was a candidate that the Rams obviously did their own research on and was not a mainstream guy that everybody interviewed in last year's coaching carousel.
- He had to deal with installing a new regime with the player lockout in 2011, and a change in ownership in 2012. Combo of poor drafting and organizational transition never really gave him a chance to succeed
- He needs to learn how to negotiate the media a little better
In experience and demeanor, sounds like the perfect combo of a younger Coughlin and Belichick to me. ;-)
I'm sorry John Mara's approach to picking coaches and GMs seems very lazy and uninspired to me. He is consistently recycling guys and not giving this organization the obvious change in culture it needs.
Why can't Shurmur be a culture change? we brought in an outside candidate but you aren't even giving it a chance before stating that things won't change.
Its just weird.
People are going to bitch no matter what they do. Only the pipe dream of Belichick would get universal approval.
The only issue: Can Shurmur do the job?
He texted Holmgren recently saying they may need to talk. “I told him I hope he learns from his first experience,’” Holmgren said.
That's wonderful, but I'm still not sure why it matters.
Ben McAdoo could have been considered an "outside the box" hire when he was brought in initially. He wasn't exactly a super hot commodity.
I get the impression that you just want a less-known quantity, as if that somehow = better.
No.
There's nothing suggesting that it will happen outside of pure speculation.
I just feel the approach is lazy, maybe lazy is the wrong word, maybe the correct word is lack of creativity or stomach to reboot.
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If he brings Spagnuolo back, that's going to sit well with you?
No.
But it might not be his call.
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Are probably going to walk all over this guy. Jeesh
come on now...can he get the job first before we call it a failure?
I know right ? Can't understand the issue with Shurmur with this board. I respect everyone has an opinion but I would like to hear the press conference, I would like to know his plan with our team and who his coordinators are before I decide to jump off the nearest bridge. All I know is he has experience, has had a ton of success with the Minnesota offense with Keenam at QB. Polian thinks highly of him. He may not be sexy but sexy doesn't always win you championships. Coughlin wasn't a sexy hire. Nor was Parcells. Let him sign the contract and lets listen to the press conference.
I don't really get into what ifs. If it happens we'll see, but right now he hasn't been retained.
The Holmgren coaching tree is very highly regarded. Gruden, Reid, Mariucci, Jauron and others. At one point pretty much any guy who coached under him in GB was a HC candidate. I'm sure he talked to Reid before hiring Shurmur in Cleveland and must have gotten good reviews. I'd feel better if he were more positive but part of it may be butt-hurt that the Giants didn't call him for input. Not sure why they didn't reach out but there might be a bit of tension between the Giants and the Walsh-Holmgren-Reid line of coaches.
A thin skin is not going work well in NY and most feedback has been is that Shurmur is quiet and introverted.
I think Mara got too caught up in a guy that can fix the offense and looked passed a lot of other factors.
How is this guy ever going to control OBJ?
How can anyone here say it was a lazy hire? You don't think Mara, Tisch, Gettleman and Abrams have contacts and placed calls to get an opinion on him being "thin skinned"? They are more than well aware of what went on in Cleveland. I'm willing to bet they questioned whether he can handle the media right to his face.
Do you see how everyone is praising Coughlin for changing the culture in Jacksonville? Gettleman is going to do the same. No more bullshit. He made a point of putting the whole roster on notice by releasing Hart. The Giants way everyone wants to get rid of won us 4 super bowls. I don't see a need to completely change the organization. Fact is, our team had a pretty big talent problem and a huge coaching problem. The coaching problem is gone. The GM is gone. They hired the best available GM by far who has a track record that blows almost everyone else away. Every organization he was with won at the time.
I'm not sitting here saying Shurmur is the next Belichick. Personally, i would have preferred Wilks. But, Shurmur was a hot commodity all over the league. The Cardinals wanted to hire him and the Titans apparently liked him too. Let's be patient.
when Gettleman was in the building (1998-2012): 4 losing seasons
No Gettleman: 4 losing seasons in 5 years
Gettleman hired him, Greg - so, you know.. by extension.
Lazy!
Maybe thats why he got the job, he agreed to do that. lol
I just feel the approach is lazy, maybe lazy is the wrong word, maybe the correct word is lack of creativity or stomach to reboot.
It remains to be seen if Gettleman is lazy? Who exactly did you want to be our new GM?
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Things can be misconstrued in print, basically, I'm unhappy about the organization not completely bringing in fresh new faces. I would have liked to see everything revamped with executives and coaches with no ties to the Giants in the past.
I just feel the approach is lazy, maybe lazy is the wrong word, maybe the correct word is lack of creativity or stomach to reboot.
It remains to be seen if Gettleman is lazy? Who exactly did you want to be our new GM?
Anyone who no one else wanted, apparently.
Again, I just preferred an entire new vision and way of doing things.
I'll be happier with Shurmur if there are no holdovers from BM's staff especially Spags and Quinn.
As for being a hot commodity, I think he was 3rd out of 3 of the coaches everybody wanted.
Here's an idea for thinking outside the box: how 'bout we hire a women's field hockey coach?
He's too meek and mild? His former GM, Holmgren, said he was a hard ass too often and needed to lighten up.
WCO? Oh the horror. Only almost every offense in the f*cking league uses some elements of the WCO.
Did the last play against the Saints that got the Vikings into the NFC championship (with journeymen QB and RBs) look like the dreaded WCO?
BBI is going to break the Crazy Meter!
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Are probably going to walk all over this guy. Jeesh
Did you actually read the article??? He's saying exactly the opposite, that Shurmur was too much of a hard ass to the players.
Yes.
- He had to deal with installing a new regime with the player lockout in 2011, and a change in ownership in 2012. Combo of poor drafting and organizational transition never really gave him a chance to succeed
- He needs to learn how to negotiate the media a little better
In experience and demeanor, sounds like the perfect combo of a younger Coughlin and Belichick to me. ;-)
Actually reading the articles is an exciting concept. More should try that around here. :)
Again, I just preferred an entire new vision and way of doing things.
I'll be happier with Shurmur if there are no holdovers from BM's staff especially Spags and Quinn.
As for being a hot commodity, I think he was 3rd out of 3 of the coaches everybody wanted.
I also want a new staff. Thing is, we will not know who was the best candidate of the bunch until years down the road. Changes definitely needed to be made.
-- A coach doesn't have to be a hardass."Be yourself... if you have a good design and can get players to play, you have a chance."
Parcells' Take on Shurmur Hiring - ( New Window )
Gettleman has a proven track record and has shown to be a solid GM, and they are going with Shurmur who has NO Giant ties at all. I dont understand the rhetoric of some saying that they have been lazy in their hires. The Giants interviewed a couple of candidates for the GM job (one with zero Giant ties) and several candidates for the Head Coach job (most without Giant ties). They have landed on the 2 they think are best of the job.
Somewhere in the middle is the reality.
And I would just hope he can coach and lead. If it is him....or whoever.
He also gave him few, if any, decent players to work with.
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Are probably going to walk all over this guy. Jeesh
Did you actually read the article??? He's saying exactly the opposite, that Shurmur was too much of a hard ass to the players.
I read it that Shurmur needed to lighten up with the media, not the players
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If he brings Spagnuolo back, that's going to sit well with you?
Maybe thats why he got the job, he agreed to do that. lol
And maybe he told the Giants brass that he wanted Spags as his D coordinator. If memory serves me correctly, they worked together not only in Philly, but in STL as well
Only if he can build a blitz package that works, and/or a we get a MLB that recognizes QUICKLY that its a pass play and drops into the middle quickly to break up/ cover the quick slant over the middle on 3rd down that have kept other teams drives going.
Pete44 : 11:30 am : link : reply
Things can be misconstrued in print, basically, I'm unhappy about the organization not completely bringing in fresh new faces. I would have liked to see everything revamped with executives and coaches with no ties to the Giants in the past.
I just feel the approach is lazy, maybe lazy is the wrong word, maybe the correct word is lack of creativity or stomach to reboot.
What kind of "fresh faces" are you looking for? Shurmur's ties to the Giants are very loose. He was OC for Spags 6 jobs ago! Hell, using the stale faced routine, none of the interviewees were fresh. Wilks worked with Gettleman, Patricia and McD worked with BB.
Fuck, Sean McVay's relative presided over The Fumble!
I swear people not only bitch just for the sake of bitching, but they don't even make any fucking sense while doing it.
How about some more buzzwords like "lazy" "inside the box" "tired" that pretty much don't even apply here and are used in place of actual facts?
Also, I hate the bias against introverts, there are plenty of studies that show introverts are capable of being better leaders than most extroverts. They are more willing to listen and consider options instead of arrogant, impulse decisions. Read the book Quiet by Susan Cain.
The fact he took the media backlash to heart is concerning, but again, seven years ago, plenty of time to improve on that. And with how fast media works nowadays I wouldn’t be surprised if most players and coaches let it affect them a little too much, it’s hard not to as humans. And I disagree that the GM or coaching search has been ‘lazy.’ The last round was lazy by not firing Reese along with Coughlin and hiring Ben. I was iffy on him being the hire but wanted to give the team the benefit of the doubt..this feels like a brand new start like 2004. Only thing I’d be upset about is bringing Spags back onto the staff, which is possible, but I think all of the stink needs to be removed from the last few years.
If you want to look at things with rose colored glasses feel free.
The bottom line is the jury is out and I could be completely wrong, but if it turns out they hired DG and Shurmur so Eli could still be the QB, not draft a QB at #2 and Spags and Quinn keep their jobs, then you look like a complete a moron for lauding these moves.
Gettlemen. What has he said, what has he done? The answers to these question give us our best insight on to what he might do. I would think the new HC will get input as well. I am going to assume for the sake of discussion Shurmur gets input here as well.
Gettlemen likes “Hog Mollies” his actions as GM seem to back up his words. I think he spends draft picks(more than 1) for both the OL and DL. I think this works well with Shurmur as HC. Gettlemen does not like to give up on talent. How many humans on this planet can cover NFL receivers man to man? Jenkins stays because he still does what he is paid for, very well. I expect us to sign FA OL and DL. He is going to be driven to prove he can "find" another Norwell or O'Hara.
Gettlemen likes to grind tape. What does he see when he studies Eli? I am going to guess here, best anyone can do is GUESS. I think he sees the same arm talent that he always had. He might be a notch slower making decisions. I think he sees a QB that is below average in accuracy. What Shurmur wants here will count heavily. You don’t bring in a QB guru coach and not listen to him. My guess is they try to free up some money with Eli(re-structure or pay cut depending on what the tape reveals) If Eli is strongly against this, they cut or trade him and use that money to rebuild roster. Shurmur did it with Foles and Keenum, why couldn’t he do it with Webb or a high draft pick.
All of that said. I am a small business owner and have been a hiring manager for most of the last 30 years. I like to hire people when I start and make them loyal to me, develop them. I need people who buy into what I am selling, not people who say “We used to do it this way and it worked fine” I think Free Agents and former draft picks not producing to their level of pay need to be on very short notice. I will often shoot an Indian(not PC to say anymore, sorry, I’m old) I think Gettlemen shoots some Indians to get attention.
Based on his earlier dealings with FA’s I don’t think he breaks the bank for OBJ. If OBJ wants to be the highest paid player in the NFL, he will do it elsewhere. If I had to pick one wild thing that might happen. OBJ gets traded on draft day. Just a hunch, maybe to Indy for the number 3 pick. Luck would sure like to have him.
That's the first mark of a reporter desperate for a story: when you risk burning a bridge in order 2 write a piece, and then the subject wines up calling you on it, it's really the beginning of the end for that reporter.
One of the first things Sal paolantonio instructed our Sports journalism class on was the need to maintain integrity when interviewing someone for a story. He was asked what happens when a reporter missed quotes or quote something out of context to the point that it does damage to the person interviewed. His response was "it will only happen once." Meaning, after going down that road you will see fewer and fewer people willing to give him a quote again.
Pete44 : 3:39 pm : link : reply
Thanks for reminding me why I stopped posting on BBI.
You've used pretty much every cliche in the book to voice your dislike. ""Lazy" "in the box", etc.
Yet, as I - and others too - have pointed out, they don't really apply.
Just say you don 't like the hire, but don't lean on a bunch of falsehoods and shitty opinions to say it.
I stopped posting, because I got tired of posters like you who think whatever the Giants do is great and then act like a 5th grade bully if you don't like the opposing viewpoint.
If you don't like my opinion or the way I state it, that is cool, but no need to become parochial.
I don't know if I like the hire or not, only time will tell. However, the moves were very benign and conservative and my interpretation is when you hire a GM that is out of work, partially because of his giant ties, that is lazy. I def don't think they gave the GM search enough time.
As for the coach, if they hired him because he was amenable to keep Eli at QB and keep Spags and Quinn, then that is an issue to me.
Back when they fired Coughlin my issue was not that they fired Coughlin, I actually felt his time was up, but it was that they kept Reese and hired McAdoo. The failure was on everybody for the several straight non playoff years, not just Coughlin.
Again, you are definitely allowed your opinion as I am.