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Holmgren weighs in on Shurmur...

bceagle05 : 1/16/2018 10:15 am
I wouldn't exactly call it a ringing endorsement - bit of a mixed bag....

Quote:
“He’s kind of quiet and kind of serious,” Holmgren told the Daily News on Monday night. “I’m not that serious. It’s hard for him to shoot the breeze. He’s really bright and works really hard. He has a good way about him with his staff. I’m disappointed he didn’t come in and talk to me enough. I was down the hall. I wish Pat had done that with me more. They want to do their own thing and don’t want to show they don’t know what is going on. I understand that. I’m really happy for him that it looks like he’s getting another chance.”

A cautionary tale: Holmgren told Shurmur he was letting the media in Cleveland bother him too much. “He read everything. He knew everything that was said,” Holmgren said. “I told him, ‘You can’t let it get to you. Don’t create an adversarial situation.’ I tried to counsel him that way.”

I should warn everyone it's a Gary Myers story.
NYDailyNews - ( New Window )
You think Holmgren  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 1/16/2018 10:20 am : link
who has been portrayed as a complete blowhard by many of his former players will take any accountability for his tenure at the Browns, and ruin his image as a Coach who took multiple teams to the Super Bowl?

Who cares. Holmgren at the Browns, was like Phil Jackson running the Knicks. They both didn't want to give 100% effort where they were, and wanted to half ass it.
Myers story or not, if its true that Holmgren thought  
mikeinbloomfield : 1/16/2018 10:21 am : link
the Cleveland media was a problem, hoo boy. The overall tone of this piece is that Holmgren isn't sure Shurmer is up to the task.

Oh well. We know next to nothing about the interviews and what the Giants are looking for. We can only hope they've made the right decision, regardless of who they pick.
I remember negative stories  
jeff57 : 1/16/2018 10:21 am : link
about Belichik's communications skills when the Browns/Ravens dumped him.
So according to Holmgren, essentially we got Todd Bowles?  
figgy2989 : 1/16/2018 10:21 am : link
.
Pretty alarming  
brunswick : 1/16/2018 10:25 am : link
Doesn't appear to be a huge fan
RE: I remember negative stories  
Milton : 1/16/2018 10:26 am : link
In comment 13791839 jeff57 said:
Quote:
about Belichik's communications skills when the Browns/Ravens dumped him.
Exactly. It reads like all the reasons George Young felt Belichick wasn't cut out to be a head coach.
Some beat guys in Cleveland  
an_idol_mind : 1/16/2018 10:26 am : link
also mentioned Shurmur's thin skin. I hope it's something he's gotten over. I feel like one of the reasons Coughlin survived after 2006 was the fact that he didn't waste a lot of time checking out his bad press.
Winning cures all  
jc in c-ville : 1/16/2018 10:27 am : link
And he will learn not to make the mistakes that Ben made, when the team isn't winning.

As long as he isn't arrogant, the NY media will give him a pass next year ( for sure) and most likely in '19 with a new QB.

After that, all bets are off.

I look forward to having this offense show some fucking life !!!!
Holmgren  
cokeduplt : 1/16/2018 10:28 am : link
Was a shitty GM so
if that is accurate  
Les in TO : 1/16/2018 10:28 am : link
then I fear he is going to turn out to be a norv turner type head coach - excellent offensive mind, solid coordinator, but lacking somewhat in the interpersonal skills/prioritizing/being humble enough to seek advice from mentor department.

The NY media is multiple times bigger than Cleveland and he absolutely needs to put on the blinders about what is being written and focus on the team.

hope it's not accurate or that he's learned well from his experiences.
Holmgren's just pissed  
jeff57 : 1/16/2018 10:29 am : link
because he was a personnel disaster with the Browns. This is the guy who traded up to take Trent Richardson and who took Brandon Weeden at 22.
RE: Some beat guys in Cleveland  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 1/16/2018 10:29 am : link
In comment 13791848 an_idol_mind said:
Quote:
also mentioned Shurmur's thin skin. I hope it's something he's gotten over. I feel like one of the reasons Coughlin survived after 2006 was the fact that he didn't waste a lot of time checking out his bad press.


Part of the reason he did survive is because his family basically told him what the media was saying and how it was effecting them. In turn, he softened up a little bit and created the players union/voice thing. Also, he let the players see him from a non coaching view.
RE: Holmgren  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/16/2018 10:29 am : link
In comment 13791859 cokeduplt said:
Quote:
Was a shitty GM so


He's got three rings as a coach. He can talk about coaching.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/16/2018 10:31 am : link
As I posted on the other thread, Myers has an ax to grind here (he has a big matzo ball hanging out there with his Patricia pick going south). That said, you would think Holmgren would show a little more professional courtesy.

Am I wrong or hasn't Holmgren done this before and thrown people under the bus?
Gary Myers is the biggest prick in Sports Journalism  
jlukes : 1/16/2018 10:32 am : link
nobody wears out an agenda more than Gary.

RE: RE: Holmgren  
UConn4523 : 1/16/2018 10:32 am : link
In comment 13791866 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13791859 cokeduplt said:


Quote:


Was a shitty GM so



He's got three rings as a coach. He can talk about coaching.


I'm willing to bet they didn't get along. Him being a shitty GM is probably why he feels the way he does about the guys under him.

This was 7/8 years ago on the worst franchise in sports, who cares?
Ugh  
Powerclean765 : 1/16/2018 10:32 am : link
This is already starting to feel like a bad hire.
WCO guy, meek & mild. Never established himself as a HC/CEO type.

But hey - he's Irish and he does what he's told.

Mara is freaking me out the last few years. Nothing to inspire confidence.

Hope like hell I'm wrong.
And speaking of Holmgren  
jlukes : 1/16/2018 10:34 am : link
.
http://www.cleveland.com/livingston/index.ssf/2012/10/coach_mike_holmgren_was_out_of.html - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: Holmgren  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/16/2018 10:34 am : link
In comment 13791882 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 13791866 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 13791859 cokeduplt said:


Quote:


Was a shitty GM so



He's got three rings as a coach. He can talk about coaching.



I'm willing to bet they didn't get along. Him being a shitty GM is probably why he feels the way he does about the guys under him.

This was 7/8 years ago on the worst franchise in sports, who cares?


Did you read the article? It wasn't a hit piece.
BTW  
Powerclean765 : 1/16/2018 10:34 am : link
I thought his Trent Richardson offense was pretty good in 2012, did a nice job with the run game. But I'm not doubting his X's and O's ability.
RE: RE: Holmgren  
jeff57 : 1/16/2018 10:35 am : link
In comment 13791866 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13791859 cokeduplt said:


Quote:


Was a shitty GM so



He's got three rings as a coach. He can talk about coaching.


He just has an axe to grind because he gave Shurmur little talent to work with. Anyone who made the first round picks he made in 2012 should keep his mouth shut about critiquing the coach who had to deal with the results.
RE: ...  
JonC : 1/16/2018 10:35 am : link
In comment 13791873 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
As I posted on the other thread, Myers has an ax to grind here (he has a big matzo ball hanging out there with his Patricia pick going south). That said, you would think Holmgren would show a little more professional courtesy.

Am I wrong or hasn't Holmgren done this before and thrown people under the bus?


He absolutely has, rare to see him speak glowingly of peers.
RE: Ugh  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/16/2018 10:37 am : link
In comment 13791883 Powerclean765 said:
Quote:
This is already starting to feel like a bad hire.
WCO guy, meek & mild. Never established himself as a HC/CEO type.

But hey - he's Irish and he does what he's told.

Mara is freaking me out the last few years. Nothing to inspire confidence.

Hope like hell I'm wrong.


What does being Irish have to do with him getting the job?
I don't see  
PaulN : 1/16/2018 10:38 am : link
Any of this any big deal at all. he has a totally different supporting cast here and he now has experience, nothing can replace that. There is not anything to get upset about here. Gary Meyers is a guy I would not get upset over anything he writes by now. You take him serious? I know I don't.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Holmgren  
UConn4523 : 1/16/2018 10:38 am : link
In comment 13791888 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Did you read the article? It wasn't a hit piece.


No, don't really have an interest in it. Going off of what's been posted.
Guys like Jenkins and Apple  
Rflairr : 1/16/2018 10:38 am : link
Are probably going to walk all over this guy. Jeesh
RE: Ugh  
jeff57 : 1/16/2018 10:40 am : link
In comment 13791883 Powerclean765 said:
Quote:
This is already starting to feel like a bad hire.
WCO guy, meek & mild. Never established himself as a HC/CEO type.

But hey - he's Irish and he does what he's told.

Mara is freaking me out the last few years. Nothing to inspire confidence.

Hope like hell I'm wrong.


I thought he was German.
Pwoerclean  
ZogZerg : 1/16/2018 10:41 am : link
Go fuck yourself ass clown!
Did any ex-Packers coaches  
if_i_knew : 1/16/2018 10:41 am : link
have any success outside of Greenbay?
.  
arcarsenal : 1/16/2018 10:42 am : link
Shurmur got the job because he's Irish and does what he's told?

LOL, this board....
Holmgren is notoriously thin-skinned himself  
DieHard : 1/16/2018 10:44 am : link
Didn't he yell "Fuck the fans" to his team when he was coaching Seattle because he was hurt over what people were saying about him?

Maybe Shurmur wouldn't have had to deal with the media so much in Cleveland if Holmgren knew how to draft worth a damn.

Yikes...
The Shurm....  
Emlen'sGremlins : 1/16/2018 10:45 am : link
....is actually sounding like Ray Handley, Part II.
RE: .  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/16/2018 10:45 am : link
In comment 13791918 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Shurmur got the job because he's Irish and does what he's told?

LOL, this board....


Arc, the stupidity sometimes is mind boggling. And the lengths people will go to criticize someone knows no bounds.
Is Shurmur German?  
Powerclean765 : 1/16/2018 10:47 am : link
Hey, I'm Irish too. It was not intended as a racist comment. It was intended as a "safe" comment.
I am in agreement that he was a safe hire for Mara. That's all.
RE: Is Shurmur German?  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/16/2018 10:48 am : link
In comment 13791949 Powerclean765 said:
Quote:
Hey, I'm Irish too. It was not intended as a racist comment. It was intended as a "safe" comment.
I am in agreement that he was a safe hire for Mara. That's all.


Again, why did you bring up that he's Irish? WTF does that have to do with anything? A really bizarre comment.
Well his dad's name is Fritz, so possibly.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/16/2018 10:48 am : link
.
Fritz is his uncle....  
Emlen'sGremlins : 1/16/2018 10:49 am : link
....not his father.
RE: Fritz is his uncle....  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/16/2018 10:50 am : link
In comment 13791975 Emlen'sGremlins said:
Quote:
....not his father.

I stand corrected.
Ugh  
Pete44 : 1/16/2018 10:50 am : link
This is an underwhelming hire to me, typical Giants. Very lazy and inside the box. It is how we ended up with Ben McAdoo.

A thin skin is not going work well in NY and most feedback has been is that Shurmur is quiet and introverted.

I think Mara got too caught up in a guy that can fix the offense and looked passed a lot of other factors.

How is this guy ever going to control OBJ?
RE: Well his dad's name is Fritz, so possibly.  
jeff57 : 1/16/2018 10:51 am : link
In comment 13791963 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
.


Shurmur is a German surname.
.  
arcarsenal : 1/16/2018 10:52 am : link
People talk about Beckham like he's some fucking wild, unhinged animal who needs to be in a cage at all times.

The worst thing the guy did this year was use a TD celebration that was probably in poor taste.

You'd think the guy needs a personal chaperone like Dez Bryant because he can't control himself anywhere he goes the way people talk about him.

Good lord.
RE: Ugh  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/16/2018 10:52 am : link
In comment 13791981 Pete44 said:
Quote:
This is an underwhelming hire to me, typical Giants. Very lazy and inside the box. It is how we ended up with Ben McAdoo.

A thin skin is not going work well in NY and most feedback has been is that Shurmur is quiet and introverted.

I think Mara got too caught up in a guy that can fix the offense and looked passed a lot of other factors.

How is this guy ever going to control OBJ?


RE: RE: Is Shurmur German?  
Powerclean765 : 1/16/2018 10:54 am : link
In comment 13791961 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
In comment 13791949 Powerclean765 said:


Quote:


Hey, I'm Irish too. It was not intended as a racist comment. It was intended as a "safe" comment.
I am in agreement that he was a safe hire for Mara. That's all.



Again, why did you bring up that he's Irish? WTF does that have to do with anything? A really bizarre comment.


I apologize if I offended you, and if he's German I apologize for calling him Irish.

But I don't like the hire and it has nothing to do with his race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. I just don't think he's the right guy to be Head Coach of the NY Giants. We'll see.
sounds like a lot of things that can be easily worked on 2nd time...  
mphbullet36 : 1/16/2018 10:54 am : link
around.

Perfect example why a coach on his second try can make slight changes to make it a positive experience instead of a negative one.
This fucking place..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/16/2018 10:54 am : link
Really?

Quote:
Ugh
Pete44 : 10:50 am : link : reply
This is an underwhelming hire to me, typical Giants. Very lazy and inside the box. It is how we ended up with Ben McAdoo.


This hire was nothing like the McAdoo hire. First off, we hired a GM first and let him line up candidates.

Secondly, we reportedly did intensive interviews with several candidates - and unlike previous years, information wasn't leaked. At one point, every guy interviewed was mentioned as the favorite.

Third, the Giants went outside the organization and hired a guy who previously had HC coaching experience.

Maybe you don't like the hire, but to call it lazy and inside the box has become like a fucked up meme, posted by morons who neither know what it means nor that it doesn't even fucking apply.
Who cares what Walrus says?  
RetroJint : 1/16/2018 10:56 am : link
He’s always been a personal agenda man , anyway. The Giants have their coach, apparently . What I would like to see from him is a 10-year career, 5
playoff appearances and 1 Super Bowl win.
RE: ...  
an_idol_mind : 1/16/2018 10:58 am : link
In comment 13791873 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
As I posted on the other thread, Myers has an ax to grind here (he has a big matzo ball hanging out there with his Patricia pick going south). That said, you would think Holmgren would show a little more professional courtesy.

Am I wrong or hasn't Holmgren done this before and thrown people under the bus?


Holmgren does come off as a dick here.

That plus the fact that its a piece of Myers suggests that it's worth taking all this with a grain of salt.
Holmgren gave Shurmur his first head coaching job  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/16/2018 11:00 am : link
Why wouldn't you care what his opinion is?
RE: Holmgren gave Shurmur his first head coaching job  
blueblood : 1/16/2018 11:03 am : link
In comment 13792035 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Why wouldn't you care what his opinion is?


Actually NO i dont..

does Holgrem know the man NOW or the man 15 years ago...
FatManinCharlotte  
Pete44 : 1/16/2018 11:05 am : link
I'm allowed my opinion and I feel very strongly about this.

The Giants lined up candidates last time around as well, including Doug Marrone and ultimately hired Ben McAdoo.

In my mind, the Giants do things in a very lazy and half hearted manner, some of it is loyalty, but most of it is being conservative in their thinking.

They needed a complete reboot this time around and hired a GM, probably because they were familiar and I just don't think this particular coach is head coach material.

I feel some outside the box thinking was required like the Rams did with McVay.

I guess at the end of the day, after the season they had, I was hoping for a completely fresh view of the organization and the potential for doing things a bit differently.

I hope I'm wrong and I probably will be as DG seems different and maybe Shurmur learns from his past coaching experiences.
RE: RE: Holmgren gave Shurmur his first head coaching job  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/16/2018 11:08 am : link
In comment 13792049 blueblood said:
Quote:
In comment 13792035 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


Why wouldn't you care what his opinion is?



Actually NO i dont..

does Holgrem know the man NOW or the man 15 years ago...


It was 2012. What are you doing?
RE: Guys like Jenkins and Apple  
Joey in VA : 1/16/2018 11:08 am : link
In comment 13791905 Rflairr said:
Quote:
Are probably going to walk all over this guy. Jeesh
Did you actually read the article??? He's saying exactly the opposite, that Shurmur was too much of a hard ass to the players.
RE: Guys like Jenkins and Apple  
Jints in Carolina : 1/16/2018 11:13 am : link
In comment 13791905 Rflairr said:
Quote:
Are probably going to walk all over this guy. Jeesh


come on now...can he get the job first before we call it a failure?
I don't like to speculate much whenever the Giants hire a coach.  
GiantFanInTX : 1/16/2018 11:14 am : link
Like most of you, I've been through a lot of changes over the past 36 years. No one really knows how it's going to pan out. So much of it depends on the players in the locker room, along with winning. Winning fixes everything. You could have a shit head coach, but if you are winning, everyone is happy. It's going to be interesting to see how this shakes out.

I'm more interested to see how the Giants go about fixing the holes in the roster more than the coaching vacancies. My only big concern with respect to the coaching changes is whether or not Spags stays or goes. I want nothing to do with him. I don't think he's a very good coordinator. I think he did a decent job with a group of patchwork players in 2007 and that grossly overrated his ability to utilize his personnel properly. If the giants are going to move on from the old regime, I'd really like a clean, fresh start on both sides of the ball.
I wouldn't want to talk to Holmgreen if I was Shurmur either  
est1986 : 1/16/2018 11:14 am : link
He traded away any chance Shurmur had to compete in Cleveland... How Cleveland fucked up the 2011 draft and basically gave Julio Jones to the Falcons was a disgrace... they traded out, missing out on Julio, JJ Watt, Tyron Smith and more... for Phil Taylor, Brandon Weeden and two guys no one ever heard of before... one of the very worst draft day trades ever (Cleveland has got to have at least 4 of the top 5 worst draft day trades in recent memory)
Sean McVay was an offensive coordinator  
Greg from LI : 1/16/2018 11:15 am : link
Pat Shurmur is an offensive coordinator.

What exactly was so outside-the-box about hiring McVay compared to Shurmur? His age? Is that it?
Spags  
Pete44 : 1/16/2018 11:15 am : link
keeping Spags would be an example of what I hate about the way the Giants do things.

The guy has coached some of the worst defenses in recent NFL history with a couple of good years sprinkled in.

Let the new coach pick his staff, if Shurmur keeps Spags only reinforces my fear of this choice.
RE: RE: Holmgren  
cokeduplt : 1/16/2018 11:16 am : link
In comment 13791866 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13791859 cokeduplt said:


Quote:


Was a shitty GM so



He's got three rings as a coach. He can talk about coaching.


Still a shitty GM whine fav e Shurmur shitty players to work with
Mcvay  
Pete44 : 1/16/2018 11:17 am : link
McVay was not interviewed by any other team than the Rams. That is outside the box thinking.

how does a fan  
UConn4523 : 1/16/2018 11:17 am : link
determine our new GM and Owners are lazy. I'd love to hear it. And not only that, but you feel strongly about their laziness.

Not liking the hire is fine. But taking such an absurd stance is ridiculous.
This is an honest question for the pro-Shurmur hire people  
Chris684 : 1/16/2018 11:19 am : link
If he brings Spagnuolo back, that's going to sit well with you?
RE: Mcvay  
Greg from LI : 1/16/2018 11:20 am : link
In comment 13792107 Pete44 said:
Quote:
McVay was not interviewed by any other team than the Rams. That is outside the box thinking.


Um.....swell?

Your impression of why McVay was a good hire was that no one else interviewed him? Am I understanding this properly?
.  
arcarsenal : 1/16/2018 11:20 am : link
Apparently if a coach is less sought-after, it makes him a better candidate because it's more... outside the box.

Some of the things I read here...
Lazy  
Pete44 : 1/16/2018 11:21 am : link
I'm not saying the GM is lazy, that remains to be seen.

I'm sorry John Mara's approach to picking coaches and GMs seems very lazy and uninspired to me. He is consistently recycling guys and not giving this organization the obvious change in culture it needs.
Greg  
Pete44 : 1/16/2018 11:23 am : link
Gotta love BBI and the way things can be interpreted.

I'm not saying that Mcvay was a good hire because nobody else interviewed him.

I'm saying he was a candidate that the Rams obviously did their own research on and was not a mainstream guy that everybody interviewed in last year's coaching carousel.
What I gleaned from the article  
DieHard : 1/16/2018 11:24 am : link
- Shurmur is a no-nonsense coach and grinder who might need to learn how to show a more human side with his players
- He had to deal with installing a new regime with the player lockout in 2011, and a change in ownership in 2012. Combo of poor drafting and organizational transition never really gave him a chance to succeed
- He needs to learn how to negotiate the media a little better

In experience and demeanor, sounds like the perfect combo of a younger Coughlin and Belichick to me. ;-)
RE: Lazy  
UConn4523 : 1/16/2018 11:24 am : link
In comment 13792117 Pete44 said:
Quote:
I'm not saying the GM is lazy, that remains to be seen.

I'm sorry John Mara's approach to picking coaches and GMs seems very lazy and uninspired to me. He is consistently recycling guys and not giving this organization the obvious change in culture it needs.


Why can't Shurmur be a culture change? we brought in an outside candidate but you aren't even giving it a chance before stating that things won't change.

Its just weird.
Arc  
Pete44 : 1/16/2018 11:25 am : link
Outside of the box = not interviewing the exact list of candidates that everybody else interviewed.
and if they had hired a 30 year old who had only been OC for 2 years  
Greg from LI : 1/16/2018 11:25 am : link
Then people would be going insane about what a horrible idea it was to hire a guy so callow.

People are going to bitch no matter what they do. Only the pipe dream of Belichick would get universal approval.
Uconn  
Pete44 : 1/16/2018 11:26 am : link
We brought in an outside coach that might be forced to keep Spags as defensive coordinator and will be getting players from a recycled front office executive that was beat out by Jerry Reese originally.
RE: I wouldn't want to talk to Holmgreen if I was Shurmur either  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/16/2018 11:26 am : link
In comment 13792092 est1986 said:
Quote:
He traded away any chance Shurmur had to compete in Cleveland... How Cleveland fucked up the 2011 draft and basically gave Julio Jones to the Falcons was a disgrace... they traded out, missing out on Julio, JJ Watt, Tyron Smith and more... for Phil Taylor, Brandon Weeden and two guys no one ever heard of before... one of the very worst draft day trades ever (Cleveland has got to have at least 4 of the top 5 worst draft day trades in recent memory)


The only issue: Can Shurmur do the job?

He texted Holmgren recently saying they may need to talk. “I told him I hope he learns from his first experience,’” Holmgren said.
UConn  
Chris684 : 1/16/2018 11:27 am : link
How are you going to go about changing culture bringing back the DC that one of the most talented and expensive defenses in the league spent most of last season tuning out or totally under-performing for?
How about we put the outrage about Spags on hold  
Greg from LI : 1/16/2018 11:28 am : link
until he, y'know, is actually retained?
RE: Arc  
arcarsenal : 1/16/2018 11:28 am : link
In comment 13792133 Pete44 said:
Quote:
Outside of the box = not interviewing the exact list of candidates that everybody else interviewed.


That's wonderful, but I'm still not sure why it matters.

Ben McAdoo could have been considered an "outside the box" hire when he was brought in initially. He wasn't exactly a super hot commodity.

I get the impression that you just want a less-known quantity, as if that somehow = better.
RE: This is an honest question for the pro-Shurmur hire people  
jeff57 : 1/16/2018 11:29 am : link
In comment 13792113 Chris684 said:
Quote:
If he brings Spagnuolo back, that's going to sit well with you?


No.
.  
arcarsenal : 1/16/2018 11:29 am : link
Also, let me know when Spagnuolo is actually named DC.

There's nothing suggesting that it will happen outside of pure speculation.
Guys  
Pete44 : 1/16/2018 11:30 am : link
Things can be misconstrued in print, basically, I'm unhappy about the organization not completely bringing in fresh new faces. I would have liked to see everything revamped with executives and coaches with no ties to the Giants in the past.

I just feel the approach is lazy, maybe lazy is the wrong word, maybe the correct word is lack of creativity or stomach to reboot.
RE: RE: This is an honest question for the pro-Shurmur hire people  
jeff57 : 1/16/2018 11:31 am : link
In comment 13792149 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 13792113 Chris684 said:


Quote:


If he brings Spagnuolo back, that's going to sit well with you?



No.


But it might not be his call.
RE: RE: Guys like Jenkins and Apple  
Rjanyg : 1/16/2018 11:31 am : link
In comment 13792089 Jints in Carolina said:
Quote:
In comment 13791905 Rflairr said:


Quote:


Are probably going to walk all over this guy. Jeesh



come on now...can he get the job first before we call it a failure?


I know right ? Can't understand the issue with Shurmur with this board. I respect everyone has an opinion but I would like to hear the press conference, I would like to know his plan with our team and who his coordinators are before I decide to jump off the nearest bridge. All I know is he has experience, has had a ton of success with the Minnesota offense with Keenam at QB. Polian thinks highly of him. He may not be sexy but sexy doesn't always win you championships. Coughlin wasn't a sexy hire. Nor was Parcells. Let him sign the contract and lets listen to the press conference.
RE: UConn  
UConn4523 : 1/16/2018 11:34 am : link
In comment 13792143 Chris684 said:
Quote:
How are you going to go about changing culture bringing back the DC that one of the most talented and expensive defenses in the league spent most of last season tuning out or totally under-performing for?


I don't really get into what ifs. If it happens we'll see, but right now he hasn't been retained.
RE: Did any ex-Packers coaches  
bluepepper : 1/16/2018 11:34 am : link
In comment 13791917 if_i_knew said:
Quote:
have any success outside of Greenbay?

The Holmgren coaching tree is very highly regarded. Gruden, Reid, Mariucci, Jauron and others. At one point pretty much any guy who coached under him in GB was a HC candidate. I'm sure he talked to Reid before hiring Shurmur in Cleveland and must have gotten good reviews. I'd feel better if he were more positive but part of it may be butt-hurt that the Giants didn't call him for input. Not sure why they didn't reach out but there might be a bit of tension between the Giants and the Walsh-Holmgren-Reid line of coaches.

what ties to the Giants does Pat Shurmur have??  
Greg from LI : 1/16/2018 11:36 am : link
.
RE: Ugh  
GiantGrit : 1/16/2018 11:36 am : link
In comment 13791981 Pete44 said:
Quote:
This is an underwhelming hire to me, typical Giants. Very lazy and inside the box. It is how we ended up with Ben McAdoo.

A thin skin is not going work well in NY and most feedback has been is that Shurmur is quiet and introverted.

I think Mara got too caught up in a guy that can fix the offense and looked passed a lot of other factors.

How is this guy ever going to control OBJ?


How can anyone here say it was a lazy hire? You don't think Mara, Tisch, Gettleman and Abrams have contacts and placed calls to get an opinion on him being "thin skinned"? They are more than well aware of what went on in Cleveland. I'm willing to bet they questioned whether he can handle the media right to his face.

Do you see how everyone is praising Coughlin for changing the culture in Jacksonville? Gettleman is going to do the same. No more bullshit. He made a point of putting the whole roster on notice by releasing Hart. The Giants way everyone wants to get rid of won us 4 super bowls. I don't see a need to completely change the organization. Fact is, our team had a pretty big talent problem and a huge coaching problem. The coaching problem is gone. The GM is gone. They hired the best available GM by far who has a track record that blows almost everyone else away. Every organization he was with won at the time.

I'm not sitting here saying Shurmur is the next Belichick. Personally, i would have preferred Wilks. But, Shurmur was a hot commodity all over the league. The Cardinals wanted to hire him and the Titans apparently liked him too. Let's be patient.

when Gettleman was in the building (1998-2012): 4 losing seasons

No Gettleman: 4 losing seasons in 5 years
RE: what ties to the Giants does Pat Shurmur have??  
arcarsenal : 1/16/2018 11:38 am : link
In comment 13792169 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.


Gettleman hired him, Greg - so, you know.. by extension.

Lazy!
RE: This is an honest question for the pro-Shurmur hire people  
Rflairr : 1/16/2018 11:39 am : link
In comment 13792113 Chris684 said:
Quote:
If he brings Spagnuolo back, that's going to sit well with you?


Maybe thats why he got the job, he agreed to do that. lol
RE: Guys  
GiantGrit : 1/16/2018 11:39 am : link
In comment 13792154 Pete44 said:
Quote:
Things can be misconstrued in print, basically, I'm unhappy about the organization not completely bringing in fresh new faces. I would have liked to see everything revamped with executives and coaches with no ties to the Giants in the past.

I just feel the approach is lazy, maybe lazy is the wrong word, maybe the correct word is lack of creativity or stomach to reboot.


It remains to be seen if Gettleman is lazy? Who exactly did you want to be our new GM?
RE: RE: Guys  
arcarsenal : 1/16/2018 11:40 am : link
In comment 13792187 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
In comment 13792154 Pete44 said:


Quote:


Things can be misconstrued in print, basically, I'm unhappy about the organization not completely bringing in fresh new faces. I would have liked to see everything revamped with executives and coaches with no ties to the Giants in the past.

I just feel the approach is lazy, maybe lazy is the wrong word, maybe the correct word is lack of creativity or stomach to reboot.



It remains to be seen if Gettleman is lazy? Who exactly did you want to be our new GM?


Anyone who no one else wanted, apparently.
GiantGrit  
Pete44 : 1/16/2018 11:41 am : link
I hope you are right about Gettleman.

Again, I just preferred an entire new vision and way of doing things.

I'll be happier with Shurmur if there are no holdovers from BM's staff especially Spags and Quinn.

As for being a hot commodity, I think he was 3rd out of 3 of the coaches everybody wanted.
Gettleman  
Pete44 : 1/16/2018 11:42 am : link
I don't remember all the candidates for GM, but again, I preferred a guy without Giant ties.
The BBI Crazy Meter is pegged at 11  
Dr. D : 1/16/2018 11:47 am : link
How the f*ck is this too inside the box? He has no prior connection to the Giants.

Here's an idea for thinking outside the box: how 'bout we hire a women's field hockey coach?

He's too meek and mild? His former GM, Holmgren, said he was a hard ass too often and needed to lighten up.

WCO? Oh the horror. Only almost every offense in the f*cking league uses some elements of the WCO.

Did the last play against the Saints that got the Vikings into the NFC championship (with journeymen QB and RBs) look like the dreaded WCO?

BBI is going to break the Crazy Meter!

RE: RE: Guys like Jenkins and Apple  
clatterbuck : 1/16/2018 11:50 am : link
In comment 13792068 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13791905 Rflairr said:


Quote:


Are probably going to walk all over this guy. Jeesh

Did you actually read the article??? He's saying exactly the opposite, that Shurmur was too much of a hard ass to the players.


Yes.
RE: What I gleaned from the article  
clatterbuck : 1/16/2018 11:53 am : link
In comment 13792125 DieHard said:
Quote:
- Shurmur is a no-nonsense coach and grinder who might need to learn how to show a more human side with his players
- He had to deal with installing a new regime with the player lockout in 2011, and a change in ownership in 2012. Combo of poor drafting and organizational transition never really gave him a chance to succeed
- He needs to learn how to negotiate the media a little better

In experience and demeanor, sounds like the perfect combo of a younger Coughlin and Belichick to me. ;-)


Actually reading the articles is an exciting concept. More should try that around here. :)
RE: GiantGrit  
GiantGrit : 1/16/2018 11:56 am : link
In comment 13792191 Pete44 said:
Quote:
I hope you are right about Gettleman.

Again, I just preferred an entire new vision and way of doing things.

I'll be happier with Shurmur if there are no holdovers from BM's staff especially Spags and Quinn.

As for being a hot commodity, I think he was 3rd out of 3 of the coaches everybody wanted.


I also want a new staff. Thing is, we will not know who was the best candidate of the bunch until years down the road. Changes definitely needed to be made.
I think one thing EVERYONE on BBI can agree on is  
Dr. D : 1/16/2018 11:59 am : link
Quinn should be GONE.
Parcells: NY Post Today  
clatterbuck : 1/16/2018 12:05 pm : link
-- There's no one template or personality that guarantees success.
-- A coach doesn't have to be a hardass."Be yourself... if you have a good design and can get players to play, you have a chance."
Parcells' Take on Shurmur Hiring - ( New Window )
I dont understand everyone's incessant  
gmen9892 : 1/16/2018 12:08 pm : link
Approach to hating everything Giants related and completely clearing house. It's almost as though people dont remember that this team has been to 3 Super Bowls in the past 18 years. Why are we wanting to so radically change from the recent past?

Gettleman has a proven track record and has shown to be a solid GM, and they are going with Shurmur who has NO Giant ties at all. I dont understand the rhetoric of some saying that they have been lazy in their hires. The Giants interviewed a couple of candidates for the GM job (one with zero Giant ties) and several candidates for the Head Coach job (most without Giant ties). They have landed on the 2 they think are best of the job.
Thread read  
old man : 1/16/2018 12:10 pm : link
May be the case, but another threads said he is good with the players.
Somewhere in the middle is the reality.
And I would just hope he can coach and lead. If it is him....or whoever.
RE: Holmgren gave Shurmur his first head coaching job  
paesan98 : 1/16/2018 12:11 pm : link
In comment 13792035 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Why wouldn't you care what his opinion is?


He also gave him few, if any, decent players to work with.
RE: RE: Guys like Jenkins and Apple  
paesan98 : 1/16/2018 12:12 pm : link
In comment 13792068 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13791905 Rflairr said:


Quote:


Are probably going to walk all over this guy. Jeesh

Did you actually read the article??? He's saying exactly the opposite, that Shurmur was too much of a hard ass to the players.


I read it that Shurmur needed to lighten up with the media, not the players
RE: Gary Myers is the biggest prick in Sports Journalism  
chitt17 : 1/16/2018 12:13 pm : link
Agreed!
Myers was just on WFAN  
Rflairr : 1/16/2018 12:14 pm : link
Clear axe the grind. I don’t think he has any Giants sources. And he’s salty. He was wrong on the hire and he can’t admit. It’s really sad
RE: RE: This is an honest question for the pro-Shurmur hire people  
paesan98 : 1/16/2018 12:18 pm : link
In comment 13792186 Rflairr said:
Quote:
In comment 13792113 Chris684 said:


Quote:


If he brings Spagnuolo back, that's going to sit well with you?



Maybe thats why he got the job, he agreed to do that. lol


And maybe he told the Giants brass that he wanted Spags as his D coordinator. If memory serves me correctly, they worked together not only in Philly, but in STL as well
RE: This is an honest question for the pro-Shurmur hire people  
old man : 1/16/2018 12:18 pm : link
In comment 13792113 Chris684 said:
Quote:
If he brings Spagnuolo back, that's going to sit well with you?

Only if he can build a blitz package that works, and/or a we get a MLB that recognizes QUICKLY that its a pass play and drops into the middle quickly to break up/ cover the quick slant over the middle on 3rd down that have kept other teams drives going.
If they get Spags some LB'ers this whole defense changes.  
Blue21 : 1/16/2018 2:39 pm : link
.
I'm indifferent about Spags being back  
UConn4523 : 1/16/2018 2:44 pm : link
I'd like a new face, but I also know what he's capable of doing with good players. He actually had a couple capable linebackers when we won in 2007 and the defense was very good in 2016. If we can make a couple upgrades there's no reason to think he can't put an effective unit on the field.
Jesus man..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/16/2018 3:00 pm : link
apparently being entitled to an opinion means to keep voicing moronic swill over and over again:

Quote:
Guys
Pete44 : 11:30 am : link : reply
Things can be misconstrued in print, basically, I'm unhappy about the organization not completely bringing in fresh new faces. I would have liked to see everything revamped with executives and coaches with no ties to the Giants in the past.

I just feel the approach is lazy, maybe lazy is the wrong word, maybe the correct word is lack of creativity or stomach to reboot.


What kind of "fresh faces" are you looking for? Shurmur's ties to the Giants are very loose. He was OC for Spags 6 jobs ago! Hell, using the stale faced routine, none of the interviewees were fresh. Wilks worked with Gettleman, Patricia and McD worked with BB.

Fuck, Sean McVay's relative presided over The Fumble!

I swear people not only bitch just for the sake of bitching, but they don't even make any fucking sense while doing it.

How about some more buzzwords like "lazy" "inside the box" "tired" that pretty much don't even apply here and are used in place of actual facts?
LOL Holmgren is on WFAN now  
Rflairr : 1/16/2018 3:11 pm : link
Says he’s never going to talk to Myers again. lol
Yeah he’s backtracking big time.  
bceagle05 : 1/16/2018 3:13 pm : link
.
Clearly  
darren in pdx : 1/16/2018 3:35 pm : link
most didn’t bother to read the article and just the hand-picked quote. Cleveland was 7 years ago, that’s a lot of time to reflect and improve your skills, no matter your age. It’ll be a couple of years before we know if he’ll get the job done, but his most recent success with the Vikings that is happening right now is a good sign to me at least.

Also, I hate the bias against introverts, there are plenty of studies that show introverts are capable of being better leaders than most extroverts. They are more willing to listen and consider options instead of arrogant, impulse decisions. Read the book Quiet by Susan Cain.

The fact he took the media backlash to heart is concerning, but again, seven years ago, plenty of time to improve on that. And with how fast media works nowadays I wouldn’t be surprised if most players and coaches let it affect them a little too much, it’s hard not to as humans. And I disagree that the GM or coaching search has been ‘lazy.’ The last round was lazy by not firing Reese along with Coughlin and hiring Ben. I was iffy on him being the hire but wanted to give the team the benefit of the doubt..this feels like a brand new start like 2004. Only thing I’d be upset about is bringing Spags back onto the staff, which is possible, but I think all of the stink needs to be removed from the last few years.
FatMan  
Pete44 : 1/16/2018 3:39 pm : link
Thanks for reminding me why I stopped posting on BBI.

If you want to look at things with rose colored glasses feel free.

The bottom line is the jury is out and I could be completely wrong, but if it turns out they hired DG and Shurmur so Eli could still be the QB, not draft a QB at #2 and Spags and Quinn keep their jobs, then you look like a complete a moron for lauding these moves.
Original question.  
Thegratefulhead : 1/16/2018 3:46 pm : link
Back to Eric’s original question rebuild or tweek. Also, it seems Eric is asking, “What do you think the Giants will do” not “What should the Giants do” These are 2 different questions that often get confused here.

Gettlemen. What has he said, what has he done? The answers to these question give us our best insight on to what he might do. I would think the new HC will get input as well. I am going to assume for the sake of discussion Shurmur gets input here as well.

Gettlemen likes “Hog Mollies” his actions as GM seem to back up his words. I think he spends draft picks(more than 1) for both the OL and DL. I think this works well with Shurmur as HC. Gettlemen does not like to give up on talent. How many humans on this planet can cover NFL receivers man to man? Jenkins stays because he still does what he is paid for, very well. I expect us to sign FA OL and DL. He is going to be driven to prove he can "find" another Norwell or O'Hara.

Gettlemen likes to grind tape. What does he see when he studies Eli? I am going to guess here, best anyone can do is GUESS. I think he sees the same arm talent that he always had. He might be a notch slower making decisions. I think he sees a QB that is below average in accuracy. What Shurmur wants here will count heavily. You don’t bring in a QB guru coach and not listen to him. My guess is they try to free up some money with Eli(re-structure or pay cut depending on what the tape reveals) If Eli is strongly against this, they cut or trade him and use that money to rebuild roster. Shurmur did it with Foles and Keenum, why couldn’t he do it with Webb or a high draft pick.

All of that said. I am a small business owner and have been a hiring manager for most of the last 30 years. I like to hire people when I start and make them loyal to me, develop them. I need people who buy into what I am selling, not people who say “We used to do it this way and it worked fine” I think Free Agents and former draft picks not producing to their level of pay need to be on very short notice. I will often shoot an Indian(not PC to say anymore, sorry, I’m old) I think Gettlemen shoots some Indians to get attention.

Based on his earlier dealings with FA’s I don’t think he breaks the bank for OBJ. If OBJ wants to be the highest paid player in the NFL, he will do it elsewhere. If I had to pick one wild thing that might happen. OBJ gets traded on draft day. Just a hunch, maybe to Indy for the number 3 pick. Luck would sure like to have him.
Sorry  
Thegratefulhead : 1/16/2018 3:48 pm : link
last post meant for different thread
RE: LOL Holmgren is on WFAN now  
chopperhatch : 1/16/2018 3:50 pm : link
In comment 13792831 Rflairr said:
Quote:
Says he’s never going to talk to Myers again. lol


That's the first mark of a reporter desperate for a story: when you risk burning a bridge in order 2 write a piece, and then the subject wines up calling you on it, it's really the beginning of the end for that reporter.

One of the first things Sal paolantonio instructed our Sports journalism class on was the need to maintain integrity when interviewing someone for a story. He was asked what happens when a reporter missed quotes or quote something out of context to the point that it does damage to the person interviewed. His response was "it will only happen once." Meaning, after going down that road you will see fewer and fewer people willing to give him a quote again.
Did you stop..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/16/2018 3:57 pm : link
posting because you took ridicule for moronic posts?

Quote:
FatMan
Pete44 : 3:39 pm : link : reply
Thanks for reminding me why I stopped posting on BBI.


You've used pretty much every cliche in the book to voice your dislike. ""Lazy" "in the box", etc.

Yet, as I - and others too - have pointed out, they don't really apply.

Just say you don 't like the hire, but don't lean on a bunch of falsehoods and shitty opinions to say it.
Fat Man  
Pete44 : 1/16/2018 4:38 pm : link
I was never ridiculed.

I stopped posting, because I got tired of posters like you who think whatever the Giants do is great and then act like a 5th grade bully if you don't like the opposing viewpoint.

If you don't like my opinion or the way I state it, that is cool, but no need to become parochial.

I don't know if I like the hire or not, only time will tell. However, the moves were very benign and conservative and my interpretation is when you hire a GM that is out of work, partially because of his giant ties, that is lazy. I def don't think they gave the GM search enough time.

As for the coach, if they hired him because he was amenable to keep Eli at QB and keep Spags and Quinn, then that is an issue to me.

Back when they fired Coughlin my issue was not that they fired Coughlin, I actually felt his time was up, but it was that they kept Reese and hired McAdoo. The failure was on everybody for the several straight non playoff years, not just Coughlin.

Again, you are definitely allowed your opinion as I am.
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