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| Aziz Ansari responds to sexual assault allegation: 'I was surprised and concerned' (CNN)"Master of None" star Aziz Ansari has responded to an allegation of sexual assault by a woman he went out on a date with in the fall. "In September of last year, I met a woman at a party. We exchanged numbers. We texted back and forth and eventually went on a date. We went out to dinner, and afterwards we ended up engaging in sexual activity, which by all indications was completely consensual," Ansari wrote in a statement obtained by CNN on Sunday. "The next day, I got a text from her saying that although 'it may have seemed okay,' upon further reflection, she felt uncomfortable. It was true that everything did seem okay to me, so when I heard that it was not the case for her, I was surprised and concerned," Ansari's statement continued. "I took her words to heart and responded privately after taking the time to process what she had said." In a story published by the website Babe on Saturday, a 23-year-old photographer, who shared her account anonymously, described meeting Ansari at an Emmy Awards event in September where she gave him her phone number. CNN does not know the identity of the woman. About a week later, the two went out to dinner. The date continued at Ansari's apartment afterward, where, according to the woman, she was repeatedly "pressured" by Ansari to have intercourse, which they didn't, and to perform oral sex, which she did. The woman told Babe she used verbal and non-verbal cues to communicate she was "distressed." Following the encounter, Ansari arranged for an Uber to pick her up, she said. "I cried the whole ride home. At that point I felt violated," she said, telling Babe she felt her experience with Ansari amounted to sexual assault. When Ansari won a Golden Globe Award for his Netflix series "Master of None" earlier this month, the woman said she felt compelled to share her experience. "It was actually painful to watch him win and accept an award," she said. "And absolutely cringeworthy that he was wearing the Time's Up pin. I think that started a new fire, and it kind of made it more real." Time's Up is a campaign by women in entertainment to heighten awareness of gender inequality issues and curtail sexual harassment across industries. "I continue to support the movement that is happening in our culture. It is necessary and long overdue," Ansari's statement concluded. The allegations against the 34-year-old comedian, who wrote a 2015 book on dating called "Modern Romance," have sparked debate about what constitutes sexual consent. Feminist author Jessica Valenti tweeted, "A lot of men will read that post about Aziz Ansari and see an everyday, reasonable sexual interaction. But part of what women are saying right now is that what the culture considers 'normal' sexual encounters are not working for us, and oftentimes harmful." |
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| I’m apparently the victim of sexual assault. And if you’re a sexually active woman in the 21st century, chances are that you are, too. That is what I learned from the “exposé” of Aziz Ansari published this weekend by the feminist website Babe — arguably the worst thing that has happened to the #MeToo movement since it began in October. It transforms what ought to be a movement for women’s empowerment into an emblem for female helplessness. The headline primes the reader to gird for the very worst: “I went on a date with Aziz Ansari. It turned into the worst night of my life.” Like everyone else, I clicked. The victim in this 3,000-word story is called “Grace” — not her real name — and her saga with Mr. Ansari began at a 2017 Emmys after-party. As recounted by Grace to the reporter Katie Way, she approached him, but he brushed her off at first. Then they bonded over their devotion to the same vintage camera. Grace was at the party with someone else, but she and Mr. Ansari exchanged numbers and soon arranged a date in Manhattan. When #MeToo Goes Too Far DEC. 20, 2017 After arriving at his TriBeCa apartment on the appointed evening — she was “excited,” having carefully chosen her outfit after consulting with friends — they exchanged small talk and drank wine. “It was white,” she said. “I didn’t get to choose and I prefer red, but it was white wine.” Yes, we are apparently meant to read into the nonconsensual wine choice. They went out to dinner nearby and then returned home to Mr. Ansari’s apartment. As Grace tells it, the actor was far too eager to get back to his place after he paid for dinner: “Like, he got the check and then it was bada-boom, bada-bing, we’re out of there.” Another sign of his apparent boorishness. Grace complimented Mr. Ansari’s kitchen countertops. The actor then made a move, asking her to sit on the counter. They started kissing. He undressed her and then himself. In the 30 or so minutes that followed — recounted beat by cringe-inducing beat — they hooked up. Mr. Ansari persistently tried to have penetrative sex with her, and Grace says she was deeply uncomfortable throughout. At various points, she told the reporter, she attempted to voice her hesitation, and that Mr. Ansari ignored her signals. At last, she uttered the word “no” for the first time during their encounter, to Mr. Ansari’s suggestion that they have sex in front of a mirror. He said: “‘How about we just chill, but this time with our clothes on?’” They got dressed, sat on the couch and watched “Seinfeld.” She said to him: “You guys are all the same.” He called her an Uber. She cried on the way home. Fin. If you are wondering what about this evening constituted the “worst night” of Grace’s life, or why it is being framed as a #MeToo story by a feminist website, you probably feel as confused as Mr. Ansari did the next day. “It was fun meeting you last night,” he texted. “Last night might’ve been fun for you, but it wasn’t for me,” she responded. “You ignored clear nonverbal cues; you kept going with advances. You had to have noticed I was uncomfortable.” He replied with an apology. Read Grace’s text message again. Put in other words: I am angry that you weren’t able to read my mind. It is worth carefully studying Grace’s story. Encoded in it are new yet deeply retrograde ideas about what constitutes consent — and what constitutes sexual violence. |
Dennis Reynolds Contract - ( New Window )
As usual I walk the middle path on this. Men clearly need to re think how they approach women sexually today and rightfully so. Past behaviors are in many cases egregious. However women are not snowflakes either and need to be powerful in their rejections at the moment not post about it later.
Its a complex issue and perhaps the most important one of our time.
But this situation is ridiculous. It is basically setting women back to say “I’m not capable of saying no to this but you should know I don’t want to.”
I was just talking to a friend of mine about that earlier today. Gonna have to document everything.
Like C-SPAN with titties
The point is that there is a great hypocrisy from Hollywood and beyond about overreacting to social issues that present themselves (and the hot topic is sexual assault), all the while closing their doors and engaging in similar activity that they accuse everyone of doing.
Basically, you can't stand on a platform and lecture society (without credentials to do so) on how to act and then be surprised when people expect you to be hypersensitive to those issues in your own actions.
I like Aziz Ansari as a comedian and as an actor. He comes across as a good guy in interviews also. Maybe he made a mistake that one night by acting that way or maybe this is his MO. Either way- perhaps he now understands to carefully examine his own actions before trying to push his own beliefs on the population.
To me, I picture Aziz reading this and it being worse to him than the accusation: "NOOOO, I'm great at sex! Don't listen to her! OK, ok, I'm guilty! Lock me up! As long as I'm not the bad sex guy! I'M NOT THE BAD SEX GUY!"
Basically, you can't stand on a platform and lecture society (without credentials to do so) on how to act and then be surprised when people expect you to be hypersensitive to those issues in your own actions.
I just had this vision I can't unsee of Elizabeth Warren hopping up on a countertop for.... oh, nevermind
Well sure, the client/provider rules are more clearly defined.
Link - ( New Window )
And prices are so low!
touche
But he does come off as way too persistent and if she said no let's stop, pushing his hand away, then that's him fucking up.
They both look like idiots to me. If I was a woman and went back to a guys place after a date, I would assume he would make a move on me, and it would be MY RESPONSIBILTY to tell him clearly wether I wanted him to do so, or not. Guys can no longer be this mind reader thing that women assume we are....cause half the time the women themeselves are unsure of what they want.
Equally despicable as sexual assault is destroying an innocent man's life.
And a lot of men have been harmed for harassment accusations. You know what harassment is? Unwelcomed flirting. If the women is into it, it's great. You flirt, sometimes that relationship results in great, consensual sex. But if the women isn't into it, not only does the man not get the sex part, but he gets railroaded to his employer, his peers, and potentially his friends and family. And some of this is because the woman, frustrated by multiple advances, thinks it's easier to go tell H.R. than it is to be straightforward with the man and tell him she's not interested, because some women don't want to feel bad about turning a man down and potentially hurting his feelings or ego.
Also the messaging is that this is an exclusive women thing, or in some cases, a gay man thing. I have been sexually harassed and groped in the workplace by women. Not welcomed, either. But, I did not, and do not make a big deal out of it. Because just because someone is interested in me sexually and touches me, doesn't mean I am truly harmed, even if it is extremely inappropriate behavior, especially so in the workplace. I am harmed if I lose career opportunities if I don't play the game, and people like Weinstein should have to pay those women they have harmed.
However, I do recognize that almost all women have had to deal with unwelcome advances by men, and that most women have had to deal with some sexual inappropriateness in the workplace. I have 4 sisters, and they and my mother have told me all kinds of stories about varying degrees of bad male behavior. Some of them have infuriated me. I can see the terrible position it can put a woman in. But we shouldn't rush to judgement of each man that gets 'outed' as part of this movement, because some don't deserve it, even if they got horny and behaved inappropriately. Trying to get laid is not a crime, and it is not a gender-specific phenomenon. And nobody should be railroaded and careers ended because they tried to get laid and it was unwelcome.
They should suffer consequences if they used their power as a weapon to get laid, or sexually assaulted someone, or continued to sexually harass someone AFTER being told the advances were unwelcome and not reciprocated.
Aziz was just a horny dude trying to get laid. She was expecting a great date and probably hoping for a relationship. Sometime mid-coitus to post-coitus, she realized that he was getting what he wanted, and she probably wasn't going to get what she wanted, and has decided to destroy him over it. That's wrong.
But he does come off as way too persistent and if she said no let's stop, pushing his hand away, then that's him fucking up.
They both look like idiots to me. If I was a woman and went back to a guys place after a date, I would assume he would make a move on me, and it would be MY RESPONSIBILTY to tell him clearly wether I wanted him to do so, or not. Guys can no longer be this mind reader thing that women assume we are....cause half the time the women themeselves are unsure of what they want.
Also, I've been in situations where i went home with a girl, didn't make a sexual move on her (only a kiss goodnight), because I was trying to be classy and take it slow.... and later found out from her friends that she was really upset that I didn't try and bang her...it's a double edged sword.
There was no other way for this to go.
A culture was created where the claims of women were immediately taken as stone cold truth.
I would like to think that most of the allegations from these women are valid but people are losing jobs and careers based on nothing more than claims without evidence (Matt Lauer, Al Franken). How can anyone defend themselves against that?
There are two positives that are going to come out of this whole thing once the dust settles:
1. Men in general will have to be very careful and more respectful around women when it comes to sexual advances, which is a good thing in the end. Why shouldn't everyone be on the same page when it comes to those situations?
2. The population will stop idolizing celebrities and treating them as some bastion of social goodness, as it's proven now that by and large their subset of society is as tainted and human as the rest of regular society. There is nothing wrong with the ills of the human condition but please stop pretending that the whole Hollywood scene is immune to it and that they live in a pristine bubble of goodness. It's all BS.
But he does come off as way too persistent and if she said no let's stop, pushing his hand away, then that's him fucking up.
They both look like idiots to me. If I was a woman and went back to a guys place after a date, I would assume he would make a move on me, and it would be MY RESPONSIBILTY to tell him clearly wether I wanted him to do so, or not. Guys can no longer be this mind reader thing that women assume we are....cause half the time the women themeselves are unsure of what they want.
You know what a woman gets who verbally sets boundaries BEFORE you even get to that point? RESPECT.
But he does come off as way too persistent and if she said no let's stop, pushing his hand away, then that's him fucking up.
They both look like idiots to me. If I was a woman and went back to a guys place after a date, I would assume he would make a move on me, and it would be MY RESPONSIBILTY to tell him clearly wether I wanted him to do so, or not. Guys can no longer be this mind reader thing that women assume we are....cause half the time the women themeselves are unsure of what they want.
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She definitely could have been more vocal and stood up for herself more. It's not like he forcefully opened her mouth and put his dick inside twice. She took part in it blowing him.
But he does come off as way too persistent and if she said no let's stop, pushing his hand away, then that's him fucking up.
They both look like idiots to me. If I was a woman and went back to a guys place after a date, I would assume he would make a move on me, and it would be MY RESPONSIBILTY to tell him clearly wether I wanted him to do so, or not. Guys can no longer be this mind reader thing that women assume we are....cause half the time the women themeselves are unsure of what they want.
You know what a woman gets who verbally sets boundaries BEFORE you even get to that point? RESPECT.
Allstarjim is dropping truth bombs in this thread
How much more evidence can you possibly have?
Lauer literally said there was "at least some truth" in the more than 10 allegations by 10 different women of sexual misconduct against him.
I'm sure people will be unfairly punished purely based on an allegation without evidence, but those two aren't the best examples.
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She definitely could have been more vocal and stood up for herself more. It's not like he forcefully opened her mouth and put his dick inside twice. She took part in it blowing him.
But he does come off as way too persistent and if she said no let's stop, pushing his hand away, then that's him fucking up.
They both look like idiots to me. If I was a woman and went back to a guys place after a date, I would assume he would make a move on me, and it would be MY RESPONSIBILTY to tell him clearly wether I wanted him to do so, or not. Guys can no longer be this mind reader thing that women assume we are....cause half the time the women themeselves are unsure of what they want.
Also, I've been in situations where i went home with a girl, didn't make a sexual move on her (only a kiss goodnight), because I was trying to be classy and take it slow.... and later found out from her friends that she was really upset that I didn't try and bang her...it's a double edged sword.
I've been there too. Is there anything worse than finding out you could've gotten laid but didn't because you didn't make the move? It's bothered me YEARS later.
And there?
And there?
And there?
Will you touch me there?
And there?
And there?
And there?
I think I love you. Can we start again?
Can I touch you there?
And there?
And there?
And there?
Will you touch me there?
And there?
And there?
And there?
Link - ( New Window )
Lumping this in with #MeToo will cause more harm than good.
But I also love Aziz. He holds a special place to me, because I am also Indian-American, and from the moment I saw Aziz, I loved that he was hilarious without relying on Indian-American stereotypes. Considering this, it's hard for me to judge if I'm being objective or not, but based on the reactions of others falling in line with mine, I think I am.
"Non-verbal cues" is bullshit. When the girl said she wanted to stop (not "slow down" which means something different and is what he did do), he stopped, they got dressed, and watched Seinfeld
I will never not love an Always Sunny reference.
The point is that there is a great hypocrisy from Hollywood and beyond about overreacting to social issues that present themselves (and the hot topic is sexual assault), all the while closing their doors and engaging in similar activity that they accuse everyone of doing.
Basically, you can't stand on a platform and lecture society (without credentials to do so) on how to act and then be surprised when people expect you to be hypersensitive to those issues in your own actions.
I like Aziz Ansari as a comedian and as an actor. He comes across as a good guy in interviews also. Maybe he made a mistake that one night by acting that way or maybe this is his MO. Either way- perhaps he now understands to carefully examine his own actions before trying to push his own beliefs on the population.
Aziz wasn't her boss, didn't rape her, didn't use power to coerce her into anything.
This is not remotely similar - but then again, I know that you'll look for any excuse to bash the "Hollywood elite"
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She definitely could have been more vocal and stood up for herself more. It's not like he forcefully opened her mouth and put his dick inside twice. She took part in it blowing him.
But he does come off as way too persistent and if she said no let's stop, pushing his hand away, then that's him fucking up.
They both look like idiots to me. If I was a woman and went back to a guys place after a date, I would assume he would make a move on me, and it would be MY RESPONSIBILTY to tell him clearly wether I wanted him to do so, or not. Guys can no longer be this mind reader thing that women assume we are....cause half the time the women themeselves are unsure of what they want.
Also, I've been in situations where i went home with a girl, didn't make a sexual move on her (only a kiss goodnight), because I was trying to be classy and take it slow.... and later found out from her friends that she was really upset that I didn't try and bang her...it's a double edged sword.
She approached him first. He took her to a nice dinner date and back to his apartment. He made moves and then she realized, oh wait, this famous person actually isn't in love with me, he just wants to hook up. She gets upset...she probably exagerates him not getting clues.
Shame his career is now in some shit over something not that serious.
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In comment 13792400 OBJXIII said:
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She definitely could have been more vocal and stood up for herself more. It's not like he forcefully opened her mouth and put his dick inside twice. She took part in it blowing him.
But he does come off as way too persistent and if she said no let's stop, pushing his hand away, then that's him fucking up.
They both look like idiots to me. If I was a woman and went back to a guys place after a date, I would assume he would make a move on me, and it would be MY RESPONSIBILTY to tell him clearly wether I wanted him to do so, or not. Guys can no longer be this mind reader thing that women assume we are....cause half the time the women themeselves are unsure of what they want.
Also, I've been in situations where i went home with a girl, didn't make a sexual move on her (only a kiss goodnight), because I was trying to be classy and take it slow.... and later found out from her friends that she was really upset that I didn't try and bang her...it's a double edged sword.
I've been there too. Is there anything worse than finding out you could've gotten laid but didn't because you didn't make the move? It's bothered me YEARS later.
Lmao my spank bank is filled with those I could have banged but didn't. Hours and hours of content sadly. Oh well, better off this way then the Harvey Weinstein way lol.
David Binghamton, NY 1 hour ago
I have been arguing for decades that one of the giant failings of "second-wave" and "third-wave" feminism is that while women demand equality in all things - as they should - the one giant exception is that they still expect - no, require - men to take the initiative, make all the moves, and basically take all the emotional risks that come with expressing an interest in someone. If a man doesn't pursue a woman, nothing will ever happen. It's really that simple. It's not fun pursuing women. It's usually frustrating, fatiguing, demeaning, and often deeply humiliating. But this is what women demand of men. When men are assertive and aggressive, women are much more likely to reward them with their companionship and sex. Women seldom if ever reward men for being passive.
So the choices that heterosexual men are faced with are to be assertive, domineering, and sexually successful but run the risk of being accused of sexual harassment, or to do nothing potentially offensive and spend their evenings alone with their fantasies. The solution is for women to accept the responsibilities that come with equality and personhood. That means that the roles of women and men in sex and courtship must be placed on absolutely equal footing. Only when men know for certain that if a woman doesn't express any interest it's because she actually isn't interested, rather than merely playing hard to get, will the problem
Yup. And id have closed circuit video in my place with signs every where.
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We will never know the true story of what exactly happened that night. The truth probably lies somewhere in between what he says and what she says.
The point is that there is a great hypocrisy from Hollywood and beyond about overreacting to social issues that present themselves (and the hot topic is sexual assault), all the while closing their doors and engaging in similar activity that they accuse everyone of doing.
Basically, you can't stand on a platform and lecture society (without credentials to do so) on how to act and then be surprised when people expect you to be hypersensitive to those issues in your own actions.
I like Aziz Ansari as a comedian and as an actor. He comes across as a good guy in interviews also. Maybe he made a mistake that one night by acting that way or maybe this is his MO. Either way- perhaps he now understands to carefully examine his own actions before trying to push his own beliefs on the population.
I don't find this to be similar activity to what Hollywood was speaking out against in the slightest bit.
Aziz wasn't her boss, didn't rape her, didn't use power to coerce her into anything.
This is not remotely similar - but then again, I know that you'll look for any excuse to bash the "Hollywood elite"
Ansari uses his Hollywood celebrity to champion his self righteousness. He has himself said dating back to 2015 "I've always been a feminist."
Feminists don't do 1/2 of the shit he pulled, assuming that some of that is true.
So what does that make him? A hypocrite who uses his celebrity to lecture the population on morality while being just the same as the rest of the world when the curtain closes. Congrats Aziz- you played yourself.
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In comment 13792400 OBJXIII said:
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She definitely could have been more vocal and stood up for herself more. It's not like he forcefully opened her mouth and put his dick inside twice. She took part in it blowing him.
But he does come off as way too persistent and if she said no let's stop, pushing his hand away, then that's him fucking up.
They both look like idiots to me. If I was a woman and went back to a guys place after a date, I would assume he would make a move on me, and it would be MY RESPONSIBILTY to tell him clearly wether I wanted him to do so, or not. Guys can no longer be this mind reader thing that women assume we are....cause half the time the women themeselves are unsure of what they want.
You know what a woman gets who verbally sets boundaries BEFORE you even get to that point? RESPECT.
Allstarjim is dropping truth bombs in this thread
Thanks man. I actually have been on both sides of this. A girl who I wasn't interested in, who I wasn't in a superior position over, told my superiors I was sexually harassing her. Here is what happened...this girl, let's call her "Sally", would often talk to me about her love life. She would say, "I can't find a good man." Or tell me about a bad date she went on and bemoan the fact that she is looking for a boyfriend but can't seem to find someone who is good enough for her. I would tell her things like, "Sally, you are very pretty, if you can't find a good guy then who can?" in response. Or, "I can't believe a girl like you isn't beating them off with a stick." Or, "Sally, if I were single I would certainly ask you out." In this case, it was to at once boost her confidence and make her feel good, but also to let her know that IF she was telling me this as a subtle clue to get me to ask her out, that it wasn't going to happen.
There was a give and take and I never once made any sexual advance to her, or even laid a finger on her. But there I was, across from two of my superiors in a conference room, having to explain my behavior, because she made an informal complaint to them about me. I was furious, hurt, and felt betrayed. And confused. Why would someone who felt harassed by me not say something to me and let me know how they felt? And why would they continue to tell me intimate things about their personal life and love life if they felt harassed by me?
I learned my lesson right there. Don't flirt, don't even have a perception of flirting in the workplace. It takes one crazy chick to fuck up your life. Always keep it 100% professional with women at work.
I didn't get fired, and nothing happened to me administratively, just a verbal counseling to not talk to her unless work related. However, a position I was well-qualified for came open (would've been a promotion), and I asked about the position and let my feelings known that I was interested...and I didn't think I was seriously considered. I don't know if I wasn't considered because of what happened, but possibly. I left that company on my own terms, btw, and am very happy with what I do now. But I know first-hand that guys can be well-meaning and some women will screw them over without any conscious whatsoever.
Cecilia Chicago 14 hours ago
A line from the original piece continues to bother me: “When she sat down on the floor next to Ansari, who sat on the couch, she thought he might rub her back, or play with her hair—something to calm her down.” This was after she’d collected herself in the bathroom, after she told him she didn’t want to feel forced. Ansari sat on the couch and watched Seinfeld. Grace then, after the half hour of trying to get away from him, after saying she didn’t want to feel forced, seats herself in a vulnerable position—on the floor with her back to him—intentionally giving him nonverbal cues for physical, intimate interaction: a backrub or hair playing.
When I think of people non-sexually rubbing my back or playing with my hair, I think of friends, partners, people I trust. It’s a gesture that is trusting and intimate. And, by Grace’s own words, she gave Ansari a nonverbal cue for this kind of physical intimacy. She wanted him to touch her, but in a very narrow, specific way. If she wanted physical but nonsexual intimacy, she needed to use her words. I don’t see how it’s reasonable for a near stranger to understand that your nonverbal cue for touching is only for a backrub or hair play. That’s a kind of intimacy that is built. She did seem to want intimacy with Ansari, and maybe that’s why she stayed so long. If this one nonverbal cue isn’t very clear (I would not have been able to pick up on it), I wonder how many of her other cues weren’t as clear as she may have thought they were.