I've been looking at college game film of both Saquon Barkley and Ezekiel Elliot just to get a sense of the differences between them
Barkley is an inch or so shorter than Elliot and carries a few extra pounds. Inch for inch though Barkley appears to be more explosive and have more power on film - (and even though Elliot's combine time is slightly faster than Barkley's stated college time in the 40). Their production in College is also quite different -- Barkley has been producing for three years straight with incredible consistency and Elliot started slow and showed marked improvement from his first to third year. Elliot's overall stats are better than Barkley - but the real difference appears on film - in work ethic, in burst, in stamina, in shiftiness, in all-round talent (catching, throwing, returning, running, juking) Barkley leaps out as being a different animal than Elliot.
After posting about the three Blue Chip college QB's value -- and now steeping myself in Barkley -- I would not be upset if the Giants picked him at all at #2. He's an incredible talent, the rest of the field seems to slow down around him, and he can turn it up a notch on longer runs -- which is not the case with Elliot, who seems to burst and then slow down on longer runs.
I can just imagine Odell and Barkley on the same team giving the opposition fits as to who they'd have to cover -- because Barkley is impressive in the open field and with his route running in addition to his ball and running skills. He also can throw the ball long distances fluidly and accurately. This guy is a rare talent like OBJ.
This will be the highest RB grade I have ever done and the 3rd highest overall grade I have ever done.
WOW! When I look at Fournette and what he's done for JAX, Elliot with DAL, Gurley (I admit I didn't want him because of the knee injury) I more and more want to see the Giants get a back like that. What a difference maker.
This is all provided we pour the rest of the offensive resources into the OL in Free Agency and the draft. This would take a TON of pressure of Eli or any other QB we put back there in the next 5+ years, not to mention free up OBJ.
For the amount of money the #2 pick is going to cost, you can get a good RB in FA. That is not true of a number of other positions.
Not saying I'd be disappointed if they drafted Barkley, just thought this was an interesting point that was brought up before.
This will be the highest RB grade I have ever done and the 3rd highest overall grade I have ever done.
Great, now lets make him a Giant
For the amount of money the #2 pick is going to cost, you can get a good RB in FA. That is not true of a number of other positions.
Not saying I'd be disappointed if they drafted Barkley, just thought this was an interesting point that was brought up before.
I hate that argument. If he is considered the BEST player in the draft then he is worth the money. period.
His style in my opinion is closer to Reggie Bush than it is to Elliot.
He's a weapon no doubt, but I think there's better "pure runners" in this draft and I don't think the gap between him, Guice and Michel is that big or even existent.
It's the Browns so you never know, but they could wind up missing on the top 2 QBs then. Giants could easily go QB at #2 and then any other QB needy team (Broncos/Jets/etc) would be on the phones to move up to #3 and get their guy.
The difference is that Barkley is carrying about 20 more yards on his frame. He has tree trunks for legs. He is way more explosive than McCoy and has way better break away speed.
He was clocked at 22.9 mph on a TD vs UM this year. For comparison purposes, the only faster speed reached by an NFL player in 2016 was by Tyreek Hill. Let that sink in.
The difference is that Barkley is carrying about 20 more yards on his frame. He has tree trunks for legs. He is way more explosive than McCoy and has way better break away speed.
He was clocked at 22.9 mph on a TD vs UM this year. For comparison purposes, the only faster speed reached by an NFL player in 2016 was by Tyreek Hill. Let that sink in.
20 more pounds not yards*
Barkley disappeared in games last year
He had multiple games against mediocre defenses where he gained less than 60 yards
How do you explain the Rutgers game ?
I think that Barkley is not all that people say he is .
While he has all the ability he just does not run threw contact
2) He's a high character guy. He's never had off the field issues.
Barkley disappeared in games last year
He had multiple games against mediocre defenses where he gained less than 60 yards
How do you explain the Rutgers game ?
I think that Barkley is not all that people say he is .
While he has all the ability he just does not run threw contact
The offensive line that Elliott ran behind opened big holes for him. That hasn't been the case for the Penn St oline.
Keep in mind, DG took Christian McCaffrey at 9 last year so he knows the importance of a multi faceted offensive weapon. Barkley is 10x better than McCaffrey, it's a no brainer to take him at 2, but as I have said I think the Browns take him first overall and then take the QB we don't at 4.
This will be the highest RB grade I have ever done and the 3rd highest overall grade I have ever done.
Damn.
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I do not think that Barkley compares to Elliott
Barkley disappeared in games last year
He had multiple games against mediocre defenses where he gained less than 60 yards
How do you explain the Rutgers game ?
I think that Barkley is not all that people say he is .
While he has all the ability he just does not run threw contact
The offensive line that Elliott ran behind opened big holes for him. That hasn't been the case for the Penn St oline.
Also, he ran behind a pretty poor offensive line and defenses were zeroed in on taking him away.
Daniel Jeremiah said he has the highest RB grade since Adrian Peterson, but is a better all around player because of his ability in the receiving game.
Keep in mind, DG took Christian McCaffrey at 9 last year so he knows the importance of a multi faceted offensive weapon. Barkley is 10x better than McCaffrey, it's a no brainer to take him at 2, but as I have said I think the Browns take him first overall and then take the QB we don't at 4.
Gettleman took McCaffrey last year, and Shurmur and the Browns took Trent Richardson at #3 last time he was a head coach. Also, Vikings traded up for Dalvin Cook and took him with their top pick last year. So, these guys value RB's.
Bill Polian on NFL Live said that Barkley would make a ton of sense for the Giants.
I am really starting to believe he is the guy unless the Browns pass on Darnold.
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Really, his running style (gait anyway) is more Barry Sanders like than I've seen from anyone in that he can change direction at the drop of a hat and stop and start at a ridiculous rate. If you want to instantly inject home run ability into this offense you have to take him. He's the best natural receiving RB I've ever seen and it's not even close. You could easily line him up at slot WR and he'd be an 80 catch 1,000 yard guy. You add him to Odell Beckham and Evan Engram, good fing luck defending the field. We can eat up the deep thirds with Engram and Beckham, and the only way to stop that is to double Beckham or shade coverage his way then you only have 6-7 in the box to stop the run. You add Barkley to that and it's a nightmare for defenses from day one. You could put a hat rack at QB and score 20 points.
Keep in mind, DG took Christian McCaffrey at 9 last year so he knows the importance of a multi faceted offensive weapon. Barkley is 10x better than McCaffrey, it's a no brainer to take him at 2, but as I have said I think the Browns take him first overall and then take the QB we don't at 4.
Gettleman took McCaffrey last year, and Shurmur and the Browns took Trent Richardson at #3 last time he was a head coach. Also, Vikings traded up for Dalvin Cook and took him with their top pick last year. So, these guys value RB's.
Bill Polian on NFL Live said that Barkley would make a ton of sense for the Giants.
I am really starting to believe he is the guy unless the Browns pass on Darnold.
Eli can still get the job done. He had NOTHING around him this year. No OL and practice squad receivers, and a replacement level back in Darkwa.
If you fix the OL in RDS 2-6 and FA and get Barkley to go with Odell, Engram, Shepard and Shurmurs system-that is a scary team in 2018.
Eli can still get the job done. He had NOTHING around him this year. No OL and practice squad receivers, and a replacement level back in Darkwa.
If you fix the OL in RDS 2-6 and FA and get Barkley to go with Odell, Engram, Shepard and Shurmurs system-that is a scary team in 2018.
I'd like that. One more addition would be a big possession receiver to replace Marshall who is also a good blocker in the run game.
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Sure, QB is the most valuable position, but no one in the NFC East wants to see the Giants end up with Barkley. Browns will end up with Darnold, so that leaves the Giants picking between Rosen and Barkley. Barkley is almost as sure of a thing as it gets in the draft, while Rosen has some major red flags (concussion/injuries, attitude, mobility isn't great). Give me the sure thing in Barkley. He gives the Giants the best chance to compete in 2018, 2019, and 2020.
Eli can still get the job done. He had NOTHING around him this year. No OL and practice squad receivers, and a replacement level back in Darkwa.
If you fix the OL in RDS 2-6 and FA and get Barkley to go with Odell, Engram, Shepard and Shurmurs system-that is a scary team in 2018.
I'd like that. One more addition would be a big possession receiver to replace Marshall who is also a good blocker in the run game.
Auden Tate can probably be had round 3 or 4 and checks all those boxes
When you hit on a QB in the draft, you instantly make your team better. The Rams, Eagles, and Texans have shown that. If the Giants believe any of the QBs available are franchise guys, I don't care if they think Barkley is rated 99.75 out of 100, you simply don't pass up the QB to pick Barkley. You can get a very good to great RB later in the draft. The odds of you getting a franchise QB after Round 1 drop precipitously. (Yes, there are exceptions, but they are not the rule.)
The teams that picked Fournette and Elliott were in a different spot than we are in. JAX had an up and coming D and still believed in Bortles, a young QB in his own right. Dallas still had Romo and hoped they could help their D and help keep him healthy with a franchise RB. They also had a juggernaut OL. We don't.
We are not the right team to draft Barkley.
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In comment 13793177 Breeze_94 said:
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Sure, QB is the most valuable position, but no one in the NFC East wants to see the Giants end up with Barkley. Browns will end up with Darnold, so that leaves the Giants picking between Rosen and Barkley. Barkley is almost as sure of a thing as it gets in the draft, while Rosen has some major red flags (concussion/injuries, attitude, mobility isn't great). Give me the sure thing in Barkley. He gives the Giants the best chance to compete in 2018, 2019, and 2020.
Eli can still get the job done. He had NOTHING around him this year. No OL and practice squad receivers, and a replacement level back in Darkwa.
If you fix the OL in RDS 2-6 and FA and get Barkley to go with Odell, Engram, Shepard and Shurmurs system-that is a scary team in 2018.
I'd like that. One more addition would be a big possession receiver to replace Marshall who is also a good blocker in the run game.
Auden Tate can probably be had round 3 or 4 and checks all those boxes
That or this kind of sounds crazy but bring Marshall back for close to the vet min. He wants to be in NY so I'm sure the Giants can work something out with him. He is not going to get paid much more than that anywhere else regardless.
By doing this, the Giants don't lose 1mil in dead money by cutting him. Might as well keep him on the roster for the vet min or around 2mil instead of paying 1mil to cut him. He was a poor fit in McAdoo's system but he was still a viable target. He really started to come on in the Eagles game and vs TB after a HORRIBLE start vs DAL and DET.
Eli can still get the job done. He had NOTHING around him this year. No OL and practice squad receivers, and a replacement level back in Darkwa.
If you fix the OL in RDS 2-6 and FA and get Barkley to go with Odell, Engram, Shepard and Shurmurs system-that is a scary team in 2018.
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
This is what I've been SCREAMING to anyone that will listen and putting in the air hoping that it reaches the giants brass somehow. Barkley on this team makes them an INSTANT playoff contender. Drafting a QB, IMO is a mistake when you have a guy like this on the board. We have a veteran QB who CAN still play on the roster. We already have a young QB also on the roster. We have OBJ, Engram, a defense that got us to 11-5 last year. We upgrade the oline and a couple positions here and there and add Barkley...this team IS a playoff contender.
The goal is to win is it not? The future QB can wait especially if it isn't Darnold. But I think passing on Barkley just to take Rosen ONLY CUZ he's a QB is a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE mistake.
Barkley is a special player and those are the types of players you draft, regardless of position, when you draft this high. You don't draft need. You draft special, game changing players...whether thats LT, Eli Manning, or someone like Barkley.
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Sure, QB is the most valuable position, but no one in the NFC East wants to see the Giants end up with Barkley. Browns will end up with Darnold, so that leaves the Giants picking between Rosen and Barkley. Barkley is almost as sure of a thing as it gets in the draft, while Rosen has some major red flags (concussion/injuries, attitude, mobility isn't great). Give me the sure thing in Barkley. He gives the Giants the best chance to compete in 2018, 2019, and 2020.
Eli can still get the job done. He had NOTHING around him this year. No OL and practice squad receivers, and a replacement level back in Darkwa.
If you fix the OL in RDS 2-6 and FA and get Barkley to go with Odell, Engram, Shepard and Shurmurs system-that is a scary team in 2018.
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
This is what I've been SCREAMING to anyone that will listen and putting in the air hoping that it reaches the giants brass somehow. Barkley on this team makes them an INSTANT playoff contender. Drafting a QB, IMO is a mistake when you have a guy like this on the board. We have a veteran QB who CAN still play on the roster. We already have a young QB also on the roster. We have OBJ, Engram, a defense that got us to 11-5 last year. We upgrade the oline and a couple positions here and there and add Barkley...this team IS a playoff contender.
The goal is to win is it not? The future QB can wait especially if it isn't Darnold. But I think passing on Barkley just to take Rosen ONLY CUZ he's a QB is a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE mistake.
Barkley is a special player and those are the types of players you draft, regardless of position, when you draft this high. You don't draft need. You draft special, game changing players...whether thats LT, Eli Manning, or someone like Barkley.
And continue to develop Webb as well. Webb has all of the tools and a great work ethic.
At best, we don't know what we have in Webb. Best off to double down and draft a QB at two.
Barkley disappeared in games last year
He had multiple games against mediocre defenses where he gained less than 60 yards
How do you explain the Rutgers game ?
I think that Barkley is not all that people say he is .
While he has all the ability he just does not run threw contact
Probably his performance was due to his OL from Jr. season, compared to his previous years...read the link
PSU Depth chart - ( New Window )
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In comment 13793145 Joey in VA said:
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Really, his running style (gait anyway) is more Barry Sanders like than I've seen from anyone in that he can change direction at the drop of a hat and stop and start at a ridiculous rate. If you want to instantly inject home run ability into this offense you have to take him. He's the best natural receiving RB I've ever seen and it's not even close. You could easily line him up at slot WR and he'd be an 80 catch 1,000 yard guy. You add him to Odell Beckham and Evan Engram, good fing luck defending the field. We can eat up the deep thirds with Engram and Beckham, and the only way to stop that is to double Beckham or shade coverage his way then you only have 6-7 in the box to stop the run. You add Barkley to that and it's a nightmare for defenses from day one. You could put a hat rack at QB and score 20 points.
Keep in mind, DG took Christian McCaffrey at 9 last year so he knows the importance of a multi faceted offensive weapon. Barkley is 10x better than McCaffrey, it's a no brainer to take him at 2, but as I have said I think the Browns take him first overall and then take the QB we don't at 4.
Gettleman took McCaffrey last year, and Shurmur and the Browns took Trent Richardson at #3 last time he was a head coach. Also, Vikings traded up for Dalvin Cook and took him with their top pick last year. So, these guys value RB's.
Bill Polian on NFL Live said that Barkley would make a ton of sense for the Giants.
I am really starting to believe he is the guy unless the Browns pass on Darnold.
I would shit in my hat if we took him and that's a good thing. I would need a new hat obviously but I will poop in a hat if we take him. Maybe someone else's hat.
Man, this kid is Odell without the immature baggage. He is that gifted athletically.
What do we need to convince the naysayers? Video of Saquon playing soccer at a high level. Shooting easy threes form anywhere. Place kicking 40-50 yard FGs? Throwing 90+ MPG Heaters? What?
I said it before. This is Odell without the immature baggage.
Sign me up.
Man, this kid is Odell without the immature baggage. He is that gifted athletically.
What do we need to convince the naysayers? Video of Saquon playing soccer at a high level. Shooting easy threes form anywhere. Place kicking 40-50 yard FGs? Throwing 90+ MPG Heaters? What?
I said it before. This is Odell without the immature baggage.
Sign me up.
You're never convince me to draft Barkley over a potential franchise QB at the top of the draft. KC and NO grabbed Hunt and Kamara - other game breaking RBs - on day 2 of the draft. If we want a RB, we are MUCH better off waiting until day 2 and drafting a QB in the first round. I'd rather come away from this draft with Rosen in Round 1 and Michel/Chubb/Jones/other RB in Round 2 or 3 than Barkley in Round 1 and something else in Round 2.
This will be the highest RB grade I have ever done and the 3rd highest overall grade I have ever done.
I just busted a nut.
Why isn't this stickied?
Exactly what I've been thinking. You hear over and over again Shurmer's work with Keenum and Foles and that means we're going QB at 2... Because those guys were high picks?? Make him work his magic with Webb and let's trade down or pick Chubb.
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Webb play, he has been admirable. If our coach is indeed Shurmur, and he did what he did with Keenum (yes their redid Oline had something to do with it), I personally think Webb out of college is better than Keenum. That said, Shurmur tweaks Webb to get him NFL ready, we have Eli for a couple more years max, and we draft Barkley.
Man, this kid is Odell without the immature baggage. He is that gifted athletically.
What do we need to convince the naysayers? Video of Saquon playing soccer at a high level. Shooting easy threes form anywhere. Place kicking 40-50 yard FGs? Throwing 90+ MPG Heaters? What?
I said it before. This is Odell without the immature baggage.
Sign me up.
You're never convince me to draft Barkley over a potential franchise QB at the top of the draft. KC and NO grabbed Hunt and Kamara - other game breaking RBs - on day 2 of the draft. If we want a RB, we are MUCH better off waiting until day 2 and drafting a QB in the first round. I'd rather come away from this draft with Rosen in Round 1 and Michel/Chubb/Jones/other RB in Round 2 or 3 than Barkley in Round 1 and something else in Round 2.
I know there are some on this board that just want a QB. There are some on this board that thinks "this is the year" of the Elite QB. Maybe. There's plenty of good QBs this year.
So now the question is, are the top four-five QBs in the same class as Eli, Rivers, Big Ben? Don't know.
I thought you always end up picking BPA? Even though you may or may not be convinced, ask Sy56, he'll tell you the BPA in this draft is Saquon Barkley.
So I ask these two questions. Are any of these QBs worth the pick? Or is it worth sticking with the Webb plan and drafting Barkley (or trading down)?
So I ask these two questions. Are any of these QBs worth the pick? Or is it worth sticking with the Webb plan and drafting Barkley (or trading down)?
Answer to question#2: No
Cherry-picking one guy to base a comparison/evaluation on can be very misleading. For the exercise to be helpful, you need to compare him to several past RBs, how they projected from college, and how they performed in the NFL. Otherwise it falls under the heading of a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Cherry-picking one guy to base a comparison/evaluation on can be very misleading. For the exercise to be helpful, you need to compare him to several past RBs, how they projected from college, and how they performed in the NFL. Otherwise it falls under the heading of a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Milton, question. Is it enough that in his Sophomore year Barkely had a VERY good OL at PSU and in his Junior year (2017) he did not? One could look at the Depth chart for each season (or a game whereby Barkley didn't do well) to see an explanation for an apparent drop-off....
Wouldn't you also want to see how many OL from the same team were selected in the same year of the draft as the RB, as well as maybe the year prior and/or after if the RBs comes into the draft early.
One would hope the Giant scouts are providing that level of detail to the war-room...or Gettlemen is savvy enough to do it himself.
But think about this.
Imagine they pass on him.
Just hard to imagine passing.
I think this is possible if they like all the top 3 QBs. Take Rosen, or Allen at 4.
We will all be happy this draft.
Cherry-picking one guy to base a comparison/evaluation on can be very misleading. For the exercise to be helpful, you need to compare him to several past RBs, how they projected from college, and how they performed in the NFL. Otherwise it falls under the heading of a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Milton -- thanks for the ideas -- I do this for fun. You want to make these comparisons go knock yourself out. I disagree with you on the cherry picking comments -- I wanted to look at a high successful RB draft pick and make a comparison since we are in the #2 spot.
They need a QB with #1 after trading it away the past two years. It's lock they use it on a QB, however, there's a chance they could move up to 3 with the Colts with using their 4th pick if they wanted him bad enough.
This will be the highest RB grade I have ever done and the 3rd highest overall grade I have ever done.
Wow, third highest grade ever? Yikes.
Who earned your two higher grades if you don't mind me asking?