I've been looking at college game film of both Saquon Barkley and Ezekiel Elliot just to get a sense of the differences between them
Barkley is an inch or so shorter than Elliot and carries a few extra pounds. Inch for inch though Barkley appears to be more explosive and have more power on film - (and even though Elliot's combine time is slightly faster than Barkley's stated college time in the 40). Their production in College is also quite different -- Barkley has been producing for three years straight with incredible consistency and Elliot started slow and showed marked improvement from his first to third year. Elliot's overall stats are better than Barkley - but the real difference appears on film - in work ethic, in burst, in stamina, in shiftiness, in all-round talent (catching, throwing, returning, running, juking) Barkley leaps out as being a different animal than Elliot.
After posting about the three Blue Chip college QB's value -- and now steeping myself in Barkley -- I would not be upset if the Giants picked him at all at #2. He's an incredible talent, the rest of the field seems to slow down around him, and he can turn it up a notch on longer runs -- which is not the case with Elliot, who seems to burst and then slow down on longer runs.
I can just imagine Odell and Barkley on the same team giving the opposition fits as to who they'd have to cover -- because Barkley is impressive in the open field and with his route running in addition to his ball and running skills. He also can throw the ball long distances fluidly and accurately. This guy is a rare talent like OBJ.
by all accounts, Barkley is a heck of a kid and good citizen
Barkley is "run the ball", sure. I think Gettleman Creed generally refers to having the OL needed for "run the ball", but Barkley does fit, just from a different perspective.
I'm keeping it simple and looking at Gettleman's potential picks solely within the context of the Gettleman Creed.
Thanks for taking the time to post the info! I enjoy this stuff and I don't have the skills to do it.
Play action with Barkley/Beckham/Engram would be fun to watch!
Ideally I would love to trade down and grab Barkley and build the offensive line but I know Barkley is not making it past CLE 4th overall pick.
So in theory if we want Barkley we have to pick him at #2...but as the jags and vikings have shown even now the eagles with wentz out. If you have a good defense and can run the ball as long as you get adequate QB play you can win and winning in bad weather in January as well.
But on the other side you have a guy like Aaron Rodgers who makes up for a mediocre roster and you can build around a Rosen or Darnold (if you believe either of them can be a franchise QB) is tough to pass up.
But I do love Barkley and the dynamic he would bring.
2) Draft Barkley at #2
3) Trade down to grab Quenton Nelson or a Tackle or whomever they deem to be the best player available at that spot.
The cool thing is they can easily do any of these 3 things with the spot they're in; assuming they have people that would want to trade up to #2, which I gotta believe there will be suitors. As usual, it will become more apparent what they will probably do, after they get through free agency.
I for 1 would draft him at #2. He would make any offensive line better.
Adrian Peterson
Saquan Barkley
Leonard Fournette
Dalvin Cook
Christian McCaffrey
Ezekial Elliot
Darren McFadden
Melvin Gordon
my list/ranking of the top RB's of recent memory coming out of college into the pros. No 1 was more pissed than me that we passed on Gurley for Flowers.
Generational Talent - ( New Window )
This will be the highest RB grade I have ever done and the 3rd highest overall grade I have ever done.
This will be the highest RB grade I have ever done and the 3rd highest overall grade I have ever done.
WOW! When I look at Fournette and what he's done for JAX, Elliot with DAL, Gurley (I admit I didn't want him because of the knee injury) I more and more want to see the Giants get a back like that. What a difference maker.
This is all provided we pour the rest of the offensive resources into the OL in Free Agency and the draft. This would take a TON of pressure of Eli or any other QB we put back there in the next 5+ years, not to mention free up OBJ.
For the amount of money the #2 pick is going to cost, you can get a good RB in FA. That is not true of a number of other positions.
Not saying I'd be disappointed if they drafted Barkley, just thought this was an interesting point that was brought up before.
This will be the highest RB grade I have ever done and the 3rd highest overall grade I have ever done.
Great, now lets make him a Giant
For the amount of money the #2 pick is going to cost, you can get a good RB in FA. That is not true of a number of other positions.
Not saying I'd be disappointed if they drafted Barkley, just thought this was an interesting point that was brought up before.
I hate that argument. If he is considered the BEST player in the draft then he is worth the money. period.
His style in my opinion is closer to Reggie Bush than it is to Elliot.
He's a weapon no doubt, but I think there's better "pure runners" in this draft and I don't think the gap between him, Guice and Michel is that big or even existent.
It's the Browns so you never know, but they could wind up missing on the top 2 QBs then. Giants could easily go QB at #2 and then any other QB needy team (Broncos/Jets/etc) would be on the phones to move up to #3 and get their guy.
The difference is that Barkley is carrying about 20 more yards on his frame. He has tree trunks for legs. He is way more explosive than McCoy and has way better break away speed.
He was clocked at 22.9 mph on a TD vs UM this year. For comparison purposes, the only faster speed reached by an NFL player in 2016 was by Tyreek Hill. Let that sink in.
The difference is that Barkley is carrying about 20 more yards on his frame. He has tree trunks for legs. He is way more explosive than McCoy and has way better break away speed.
He was clocked at 22.9 mph on a TD vs UM this year. For comparison purposes, the only faster speed reached by an NFL player in 2016 was by Tyreek Hill. Let that sink in.
20 more pounds not yards*
Barkley disappeared in games last year
He had multiple games against mediocre defenses where he gained less than 60 yards
How do you explain the Rutgers game ?
I think that Barkley is not all that people say he is .
While he has all the ability he just does not run threw contact
2) He's a high character guy. He's never had off the field issues.
Barkley disappeared in games last year
He had multiple games against mediocre defenses where he gained less than 60 yards
How do you explain the Rutgers game ?
I think that Barkley is not all that people say he is .
While he has all the ability he just does not run threw contact
The offensive line that Elliott ran behind opened big holes for him. That hasn't been the case for the Penn St oline.
Keep in mind, DG took Christian McCaffrey at 9 last year so he knows the importance of a multi faceted offensive weapon. Barkley is 10x better than McCaffrey, it's a no brainer to take him at 2, but as I have said I think the Browns take him first overall and then take the QB we don't at 4.
This will be the highest RB grade I have ever done and the 3rd highest overall grade I have ever done.
Damn.
Quote:
I do not think that Barkley compares to Elliott
Barkley disappeared in games last year
He had multiple games against mediocre defenses where he gained less than 60 yards
How do you explain the Rutgers game ?
I think that Barkley is not all that people say he is .
While he has all the ability he just does not run threw contact
The offensive line that Elliott ran behind opened big holes for him. That hasn't been the case for the Penn St oline.
Also, he ran behind a pretty poor offensive line and defenses were zeroed in on taking him away.
Daniel Jeremiah said he has the highest RB grade since Adrian Peterson, but is a better all around player because of his ability in the receiving game.
Keep in mind, DG took Christian McCaffrey at 9 last year so he knows the importance of a multi faceted offensive weapon. Barkley is 10x better than McCaffrey, it's a no brainer to take him at 2, but as I have said I think the Browns take him first overall and then take the QB we don't at 4.
Gettleman took McCaffrey last year, and Shurmur and the Browns took Trent Richardson at #3 last time he was a head coach. Also, Vikings traded up for Dalvin Cook and took him with their top pick last year. So, these guys value RB's.
Bill Polian on NFL Live said that Barkley would make a ton of sense for the Giants.
I am really starting to believe he is the guy unless the Browns pass on Darnold.
Quote:
Really, his running style (gait anyway) is more Barry Sanders like than I've seen from anyone in that he can change direction at the drop of a hat and stop and start at a ridiculous rate. If you want to instantly inject home run ability into this offense you have to take him. He's the best natural receiving RB I've ever seen and it's not even close. You could easily line him up at slot WR and he'd be an 80 catch 1,000 yard guy. You add him to Odell Beckham and Evan Engram, good fing luck defending the field. We can eat up the deep thirds with Engram and Beckham, and the only way to stop that is to double Beckham or shade coverage his way then you only have 6-7 in the box to stop the run. You add Barkley to that and it's a nightmare for defenses from day one. You could put a hat rack at QB and score 20 points.
Keep in mind, DG took Christian McCaffrey at 9 last year so he knows the importance of a multi faceted offensive weapon. Barkley is 10x better than McCaffrey, it's a no brainer to take him at 2, but as I have said I think the Browns take him first overall and then take the QB we don't at 4.
Gettleman took McCaffrey last year, and Shurmur and the Browns took Trent Richardson at #3 last time he was a head coach. Also, Vikings traded up for Dalvin Cook and took him with their top pick last year. So, these guys value RB's.
Bill Polian on NFL Live said that Barkley would make a ton of sense for the Giants.
I am really starting to believe he is the guy unless the Browns pass on Darnold.
Eli can still get the job done. He had NOTHING around him this year. No OL and practice squad receivers, and a replacement level back in Darkwa.
If you fix the OL in RDS 2-6 and FA and get Barkley to go with Odell, Engram, Shepard and Shurmurs system-that is a scary team in 2018.
Eli can still get the job done. He had NOTHING around him this year. No OL and practice squad receivers, and a replacement level back in Darkwa.
If you fix the OL in RDS 2-6 and FA and get Barkley to go with Odell, Engram, Shepard and Shurmurs system-that is a scary team in 2018.
I'd like that. One more addition would be a big possession receiver to replace Marshall who is also a good blocker in the run game.
Quote:
Sure, QB is the most valuable position, but no one in the NFC East wants to see the Giants end up with Barkley. Browns will end up with Darnold, so that leaves the Giants picking between Rosen and Barkley. Barkley is almost as sure of a thing as it gets in the draft, while Rosen has some major red flags (concussion/injuries, attitude, mobility isn't great). Give me the sure thing in Barkley. He gives the Giants the best chance to compete in 2018, 2019, and 2020.
Eli can still get the job done. He had NOTHING around him this year. No OL and practice squad receivers, and a replacement level back in Darkwa.
If you fix the OL in RDS 2-6 and FA and get Barkley to go with Odell, Engram, Shepard and Shurmurs system-that is a scary team in 2018.
I'd like that. One more addition would be a big possession receiver to replace Marshall who is also a good blocker in the run game.
Auden Tate can probably be had round 3 or 4 and checks all those boxes
When you hit on a QB in the draft, you instantly make your team better. The Rams, Eagles, and Texans have shown that. If the Giants believe any of the QBs available are franchise guys, I don't care if they think Barkley is rated 99.75 out of 100, you simply don't pass up the QB to pick Barkley. You can get a very good to great RB later in the draft. The odds of you getting a franchise QB after Round 1 drop precipitously. (Yes, there are exceptions, but they are not the rule.)
The teams that picked Fournette and Elliott were in a different spot than we are in. JAX had an up and coming D and still believed in Bortles, a young QB in his own right. Dallas still had Romo and hoped they could help their D and help keep him healthy with a franchise RB. They also had a juggernaut OL. We don't.
We are not the right team to draft Barkley.
Quote:
In comment 13793177 Breeze_94 said:
Quote:
Sure, QB is the most valuable position, but no one in the NFC East wants to see the Giants end up with Barkley. Browns will end up with Darnold, so that leaves the Giants picking between Rosen and Barkley. Barkley is almost as sure of a thing as it gets in the draft, while Rosen has some major red flags (concussion/injuries, attitude, mobility isn't great). Give me the sure thing in Barkley. He gives the Giants the best chance to compete in 2018, 2019, and 2020.
Eli can still get the job done. He had NOTHING around him this year. No OL and practice squad receivers, and a replacement level back in Darkwa.
If you fix the OL in RDS 2-6 and FA and get Barkley to go with Odell, Engram, Shepard and Shurmurs system-that is a scary team in 2018.
I'd like that. One more addition would be a big possession receiver to replace Marshall who is also a good blocker in the run game.
Auden Tate can probably be had round 3 or 4 and checks all those boxes
That or this kind of sounds crazy but bring Marshall back for close to the vet min. He wants to be in NY so I'm sure the Giants can work something out with him. He is not going to get paid much more than that anywhere else regardless.
By doing this, the Giants don't lose 1mil in dead money by cutting him. Might as well keep him on the roster for the vet min or around 2mil instead of paying 1mil to cut him. He was a poor fit in McAdoo's system but he was still a viable target. He really started to come on in the Eagles game and vs TB after a HORRIBLE start vs DAL and DET.
Eli can still get the job done. He had NOTHING around him this year. No OL and practice squad receivers, and a replacement level back in Darkwa.
If you fix the OL in RDS 2-6 and FA and get Barkley to go with Odell, Engram, Shepard and Shurmurs system-that is a scary team in 2018.
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
This is what I've been SCREAMING to anyone that will listen and putting in the air hoping that it reaches the giants brass somehow. Barkley on this team makes them an INSTANT playoff contender. Drafting a QB, IMO is a mistake when you have a guy like this on the board. We have a veteran QB who CAN still play on the roster. We already have a young QB also on the roster. We have OBJ, Engram, a defense that got us to 11-5 last year. We upgrade the oline and a couple positions here and there and add Barkley...this team IS a playoff contender.
The goal is to win is it not? The future QB can wait especially if it isn't Darnold. But I think passing on Barkley just to take Rosen ONLY CUZ he's a QB is a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE mistake.
Barkley is a special player and those are the types of players you draft, regardless of position, when you draft this high. You don't draft need. You draft special, game changing players...whether thats LT, Eli Manning, or someone like Barkley.
Quote:
Sure, QB is the most valuable position, but no one in the NFC East wants to see the Giants end up with Barkley. Browns will end up with Darnold, so that leaves the Giants picking between Rosen and Barkley. Barkley is almost as sure of a thing as it gets in the draft, while Rosen has some major red flags (concussion/injuries, attitude, mobility isn't great). Give me the sure thing in Barkley. He gives the Giants the best chance to compete in 2018, 2019, and 2020.
Eli can still get the job done. He had NOTHING around him this year. No OL and practice squad receivers, and a replacement level back in Darkwa.
If you fix the OL in RDS 2-6 and FA and get Barkley to go with Odell, Engram, Shepard and Shurmurs system-that is a scary team in 2018.
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
This is what I've been SCREAMING to anyone that will listen and putting in the air hoping that it reaches the giants brass somehow. Barkley on this team makes them an INSTANT playoff contender. Drafting a QB, IMO is a mistake when you have a guy like this on the board. We have a veteran QB who CAN still play on the roster. We already have a young QB also on the roster. We have OBJ, Engram, a defense that got us to 11-5 last year. We upgrade the oline and a couple positions here and there and add Barkley...this team IS a playoff contender.
The goal is to win is it not? The future QB can wait especially if it isn't Darnold. But I think passing on Barkley just to take Rosen ONLY CUZ he's a QB is a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE mistake.
Barkley is a special player and those are the types of players you draft, regardless of position, when you draft this high. You don't draft need. You draft special, game changing players...whether thats LT, Eli Manning, or someone like Barkley.
And continue to develop Webb as well. Webb has all of the tools and a great work ethic.
At best, we don't know what we have in Webb. Best off to double down and draft a QB at two.
Barkley disappeared in games last year
He had multiple games against mediocre defenses where he gained less than 60 yards
How do you explain the Rutgers game ?
I think that Barkley is not all that people say he is .
While he has all the ability he just does not run threw contact
Probably his performance was due to his OL from Jr. season, compared to his previous years...read the link
PSU Depth chart - ( New Window )
Quote:
In comment 13793145 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
Really, his running style (gait anyway) is more Barry Sanders like than I've seen from anyone in that he can change direction at the drop of a hat and stop and start at a ridiculous rate. If you want to instantly inject home run ability into this offense you have to take him. He's the best natural receiving RB I've ever seen and it's not even close. You could easily line him up at slot WR and he'd be an 80 catch 1,000 yard guy. You add him to Odell Beckham and Evan Engram, good fing luck defending the field. We can eat up the deep thirds with Engram and Beckham, and the only way to stop that is to double Beckham or shade coverage his way then you only have 6-7 in the box to stop the run. You add Barkley to that and it's a nightmare for defenses from day one. You could put a hat rack at QB and score 20 points.
Keep in mind, DG took Christian McCaffrey at 9 last year so he knows the importance of a multi faceted offensive weapon. Barkley is 10x better than McCaffrey, it's a no brainer to take him at 2, but as I have said I think the Browns take him first overall and then take the QB we don't at 4.
Gettleman took McCaffrey last year, and Shurmur and the Browns took Trent Richardson at #3 last time he was a head coach. Also, Vikings traded up for Dalvin Cook and took him with their top pick last year. So, these guys value RB's.
Bill Polian on NFL Live said that Barkley would make a ton of sense for the Giants.
I am really starting to believe he is the guy unless the Browns pass on Darnold.
I would shit in my hat if we took him and that's a good thing. I would need a new hat obviously but I will poop in a hat if we take him. Maybe someone else's hat.