If a team like Jacksonville comes calling, you really think he enforces that no-trade clause?
The only thing appealing about the Giants from Mannings perspective are continuity and the legacy associated with playing for 1 team. I see a few situations from a football and business standpoint that make much more sense to him...especially if they sink a large resource into acquiring his replacement.
Aces - I think you misunderstand my point. If the Giants are willing to trade Manning, that almost certainly means they are going to release him if they can't trade him. Which for Manning means he gets to make his own deal. So, if Jacksonville comes calling, as you put it, then why would Manning agree to a trade (or Jacksonville be willing to trade) if both Manning and Jacksonville know they are a match - and both know that the Giants have no choice but to release Manning (unless you believe the Giants would, in spite, pay Manning his roster bonus and keep him on their roster out of spite ... which is silly)
Thank you for being patient with me. I'm still not sure I understand how Manning has any incentive to agree to waive his no-trade clause.
It seems to me that if there is a team willing to pay Manning his contract in a trade, then why wouldn't they be willing to sign Manning as a FA for the same price? And if the Giants approach Manning about a trade, isn't it then immediately clear that the Giants are not going to pay him his roster bonus if they can't trade him? So, if a team is interested in Manning - and Manning is interested in the team - and they both know it - what incentive do either of them have to do anything other than wait the Giants to release Manning?
DD - I assume the savings to the Giants are the same in dead cap savings whether they release Manning or trade him (i.e. the savings is from the fact he's not on their roster, not why, correct?)
Thank you for being patient with me. I'm still not sure I understand how Manning has any incentive to agree to waive his no-trade clause.
It seems to me that if there is a team willing to pay Manning his contract in a trade, then why wouldn't they be willing to sign Manning as a FA for the same price? And if the Giants approach Manning about a trade, isn't it then immediately clear that the Giants are not going to pay him his roster bonus if they can't trade him? So, if a team is interested in Manning - and Manning is interested in the team - and they both know it - what incentive do either of them have to do anything other than wait the Giants to release Manning?
DD - I assume the savings to the Giants are the same in dead cap savings whether they release Manning or trade him (i.e. the savings is from the fact he's not on their roster, not why, correct?)
Cap Savings -
The savings are the same regardless of the "why". His salary/bonuses are no longer paid and no longer need to be accounted for. This is the cap savings. But there is still the dead cap hit of the remaining amortized signing bonus. If Eli is released or traded, it is the same dead cap hit. Only if Eli is designated a 6/1 cut will there be a cap savings of half the full dead cap hit (spread out over 2 years). IMO, if Eli is released, it will be with the 6/1 designation. The only reason to not take advantage of the cap savings afforded by the 6/1 designation is if the Giants are willing to take their medicine at once and be done with it.
If a team like Jacksonville comes calling, you really think he enforces that no-trade clause?
The only thing appealing about the Giants from Mannings perspective are continuity and the legacy associated with playing for 1 team. I see a few situations from a football and business standpoint that make much more sense to him...especially if they sink a large resource into acquiring his replacement.
Aces - I think you misunderstand my point. If the Giants are willing to trade Manning, that almost certainly means they are going to release him if they can't trade him. Which for Manning means he gets to make his own deal. So, if Jacksonville comes calling, as you put it, then why would Manning agree to a trade (or Jacksonville be willing to trade) if both Manning and Jacksonville know they are a match - and both know that the Giants have no choice but to release Manning (unless you believe the Giants would, in spite, pay Manning his roster bonus and keep him on their roster out of spite ... which is silly)
I think it's a false assumption that he'll be cut if not traded. We're not talking about a late throw in pick, I'm assuming a Day 2 pick is on the table. While not my preference, the idea of keeping Manning as a mentor for a year makes a lot of sense. Hell, I think it's widely assumed as the most likely scenario heading into next season.
What I do know is what I hope for ... I hope the Giants release
Manning... that as a FA he finds himself a new home and plays well... that he wins another ring and that the Giants win one too before he retires...
My primary reason is selfish. As a Giants fan, I want to put all the Manning mania behind me and enjoy a new GM/HC/QB.
If Manning stays, there will be a never ending, constant stream of talk about his role... was it the right decision to keep him... should he be the starter... shouldn't the rookie play... will he be back for 2019... blah blah blah. I've had enough. I don't want to hear it anymore.
I think many on this thread need to start getting used
Archie thought SD's offensive line sucked and he didn't want Eli taking a beating there.
I think Eli's decision will be influenced by who they pick #1 and if the team does anything significant to fix the sorry O-line. If he doesn't see hope for the offense (and especially if they pick a QB at the top), he may very well be persuaded to waive the no-trade clause.
He has to know that if the team doesn't fix the offense HE will blamed.
Eli is thinking with his heart, but the "Old Man" (Archie) will be very influential, AGAIN in Eli's decision.
show he has a few years left in the right situation. Think he and Shurmur will bond immediately and he will get that shot. Both lifelong football guys whose histories go back generations. Know the game and what it takes to win. Think Management sees it the same way just like the fans and the players.
make him put the money where his mouth is, and make him rework his contract, so he isn't costing the team $20 mil a season and allows DG some flexibility to go get from FA lineman.
You'll find out just how much he wants to stay a Giant for life.
FU dude. Eli is best QB and one of the best people we have ever had on this team.
The only thing appealing about the Giants from Mannings perspective are continuity and the legacy associated with playing for 1 team. I see a few situations from a football and business standpoint that make much more sense to him...especially if they sink a large resource into acquiring his replacement.
Aces - I think you misunderstand my point. If the Giants are willing to trade Manning, that almost certainly means they are going to release him if they can't trade him. Which for Manning means he gets to make his own deal. So, if Jacksonville comes calling, as you put it, then why would Manning agree to a trade (or Jacksonville be willing to trade) if both Manning and Jacksonville know they are a match - and both know that the Giants have no choice but to release Manning (unless you believe the Giants would, in spite, pay Manning his roster bonus and keep him on their roster out of spite ... which is silly)
It seems to me that if there is a team willing to pay Manning his contract in a trade, then why wouldn't they be willing to sign Manning as a FA for the same price? And if the Giants approach Manning about a trade, isn't it then immediately clear that the Giants are not going to pay him his roster bonus if they can't trade him? So, if a team is interested in Manning - and Manning is interested in the team - and they both know it - what incentive do either of them have to do anything other than wait the Giants to release Manning?
DD - I assume the savings to the Giants are the same in dead cap savings whether they release Manning or trade him (i.e. the savings is from the fact he's not on their roster, not why, correct?)
It seems to me that if there is a team willing to pay Manning his contract in a trade, then why wouldn't they be willing to sign Manning as a FA for the same price? And if the Giants approach Manning about a trade, isn't it then immediately clear that the Giants are not going to pay him his roster bonus if they can't trade him? So, if a team is interested in Manning - and Manning is interested in the team - and they both know it - what incentive do either of them have to do anything other than wait the Giants to release Manning?
DD - I assume the savings to the Giants are the same in dead cap savings whether they release Manning or trade him (i.e. the savings is from the fact he's not on their roster, not why, correct?)
Cap Savings -
The savings are the same regardless of the "why". His salary/bonuses are no longer paid and no longer need to be accounted for. This is the cap savings. But there is still the dead cap hit of the remaining amortized signing bonus. If Eli is released or traded, it is the same dead cap hit. Only if Eli is designated a 6/1 cut will there be a cap savings of half the full dead cap hit (spread out over 2 years). IMO, if Eli is released, it will be with the 6/1 designation. The only reason to not take advantage of the cap savings afforded by the 6/1 designation is if the Giants are willing to take their medicine at once and be done with it.
Quote:
If a team like Jacksonville comes calling, you really think he enforces that no-trade clause?
The only thing appealing about the Giants from Mannings perspective are continuity and the legacy associated with playing for 1 team. I see a few situations from a football and business standpoint that make much more sense to him...especially if they sink a large resource into acquiring his replacement.
Aces - I think you misunderstand my point. If the Giants are willing to trade Manning, that almost certainly means they are going to release him if they can't trade him. Which for Manning means he gets to make his own deal. So, if Jacksonville comes calling, as you put it, then why would Manning agree to a trade (or Jacksonville be willing to trade) if both Manning and Jacksonville know they are a match - and both know that the Giants have no choice but to release Manning (unless you believe the Giants would, in spite, pay Manning his roster bonus and keep him on their roster out of spite ... which is silly)
I think it's a false assumption that he'll be cut if not traded. We're not talking about a late throw in pick, I'm assuming a Day 2 pick is on the table. While not my preference, the idea of keeping Manning as a mentor for a year makes a lot of sense. Hell, I think it's widely assumed as the most likely scenario heading into next season.
My primary reason is selfish. As a Giants fan, I want to put all the Manning mania behind me and enjoy a new GM/HC/QB.
If Manning stays, there will be a never ending, constant stream of talk about his role... was it the right decision to keep him... should he be the starter... shouldn't the rookie play... will he be back for 2019... blah blah blah. I've had enough. I don't want to hear it anymore.
Archie thought SD's offensive line sucked and he didn't want Eli taking a beating there.
I think Eli's decision will be influenced by who they pick #1 and if the team does anything significant to fix the sorry O-line. If he doesn't see hope for the offense (and especially if they pick a QB at the top), he may very well be persuaded to waive the no-trade clause.
He has to know that if the team doesn't fix the offense HE will blamed.
Eli is thinking with his heart, but the "Old Man" (Archie) will be very influential, AGAIN in Eli's decision.
You'll find out just how much he wants to stay a Giant for life.
Thank you.