A look back at Manning/Leaf in '98 & how it compares to now.

Hi all,

It's been awhile, but I was looking into the decision making process that the Giants are going through now regarding which direction they're going to go come draft night (for the 1st round anyway) on April 26th down in Arlington, Texas. Take a look at the 13-minute long video below when you get a chance for a nice mash-up regarding what went on and how the evaluation process has changed.

Bill Polian said it best IMHO: there was an intellectual stance vs an emotional one. He also said this about the evaluation process: it's about 40% science, 55% investigation, and 5% gut. You look at this and you marvel at how guys like the Eli Apples and Ryan Leafs of the world get picked so high. Now, it's easy to say this now, but it's still amazing nonetheless.

I grew up in an athletic household, with my dad being a coach (soccer). He'd make comments about players based on gut, and so would our co-coach, but I'd always question them, "how do you know?" They'd both tell us we didn't. What impressed me the most though was when they got their hands dirty. My dad's co-coach, who was our real coach, really got his hands dirty and got to know the guys they'd go and scout for our team. He'd go and see these guys play and then try them out. It usually worked, but there were other cases where it didn't. Most did fortunately, lol. It was really educational for a kid like me and my buddy who was our co-coach's son (another huge Giants fan btw who reads this site).

What I'm getting at in this Darnold vs. Rosen debate is that the NYG are most likely going to be put in a situation in which they're going to be faced with Rosen being the guy staring them in the face with the 2nd pick. It seems that Darnold is their #1 based on nuggets of info dropped here from reliable sources (or sawces if you're a Fatcesser-o-file). The questions is this: how comfortable would you be picking Rosen with the 2nd overall pick in the draft?

This question is built on the assumption that you view Rosen as being worthy of the pick. Talent-wise, there's no question. It could easily be argued that he's the most pro-ready of the bunch (e.g., Darnold, Rosen, and Allen). The "gut" thing is going to be big. Hoe dirty have scouts gotten with this young man? His family is very impressive. His father is an accomplished professional in the medical field who will watch his son's health like a hawk---as he should. If Josh were my son, I don't care about anyone or anything. I'd want him to live a healthy and happy life, with the latter being a prerequisite for the former.

Keeping this in mind, 2 other things stand out besides his health history with the concussions and all: (1) his desire to be the best, and (2) can he play nice with others? specifically coaches. Regarding the first numbered factor, I'd take a look at his bloodlines. His mother was a fine athlete (lacrosse team captain), and so was his father (nationally ranked ice skater). He's driven to be the best, both athletically and academically, and was an excellent tennis player. There's a lot to like about him. His teammates swear by him and he has exhibited a desire to be the best at whatever he does--all desirable traits for a guy who you'd want to be your franchise QB for the next 10 to 15 years.

He's had issues in the past regarding his reputation for questioning things. Personally, I like it, and I think he;s ready for the pros in that regard. It shows me he's a guy who thinks critically, will stand up to b.s., and demands excellence as a player form his coaches and teammates. A guy I'd lean on heavily in this is Jim Mora, Jr. (not going out on a limb here of course).

Mora coached him at UCLA and has known him since High School (his daughter went to H.S. with him). Say what you want about Mora, Jr., but he knows the NFL and he comes from good coaching stock (Mora, Sr.), so he knows how to make an NFL projection. Mora, Jr. has had the kid sleep over on his couch, so this is someone who knows this id pretty well. People need to remember one thing though: he's a kid, and he's still maturing. there's a big difference between 17 and 22. This will be important going forward in the investigation process.

The other thing that stands out to me is his desire to be the best. Will josh cut and run if he feels things are too rough for him at the next level? how will he deal with adversity on top? It seems that he's very driven, but I wonder what's going to happen if injuries get to to him and force him to think twice about his career going forward, which brings me to my next point.

My biggest worry about Rosen is his availability. We've been blessed as giants fans to have Eli Manning as our starting QB for for roughly a decade and a half. He's signed for two more years, and I feel he could start and play at a high level for those 2 years. Dependability is HUGE.

How dependable can Rosen be? This may sound cliche, but it applies: the biggest and best ability is availability. Eli and his brother had that in spades. I wonder how that applies to Rosen. To me, this is the biggest issue when it comes to investigating this player.

From a talent perspective, I want Rosen. He's a competitor and a classic pocket passer with the ability to move well in the pocket (tennis helps there immensely). He's a beautiful passer of the football. I liken him to a 4 pitch pitcher in baseball. His injury history will correlate directly to his desire to be the best.

There will come a point when a guy like Rosen, who has his father (a top neurosurgeon) in his ear regarding concussions, will weigh whether or not to continue playing and risk serious long-term injury if this continues to be a problem for him in the future. Let's see what happens, because this is something which is the most important decision this franchise has made with respect to personnel since drafting Eli almost 14 years ago.

I think it;s worth the risk to draft a QB like this so high up because you don't get there very often. You have to strike while the iron is hot and be willing to risk it. I don't have a problem going for it with Rosen if they feel they've done their HW on him. At the end of the day, the "gut" part of this evaluation process is vital too. I've seen a guy I've practiced with in camps who didn't impress me come to play with my team and excel and I've seen another who I didn't expect to excel do so. You never know. It's guesswork to some extent, no matter what anyone says.

My biggest thing is that if this kid is projected not to have health issues going forward to give him a shot, especially under Eli's watch for a year. I would not want to play him from day 1. Let him watch how Eli operates and see what it's like to be a pro, something which I admired Joe Gibbs for doing for years with the Skins. Today's NFL is different, but look what that did for the kid out in L.A. playing for the Rams? Let's see what happens.

This may all be putting the cart before the horse of course. This is going to be an interesting debate to say the least, but put me in the corner of you draft the QB: if Rosen is healthy, pick him (assuming Darnold goes #1). If Rosen's medicals scare you, the pick Allen with the 2nd pick (also assuming Darnold goes 1st). If Cleveland is willing to listen to offers for Darnold at #1, then investigate that seriously. At the end of the day though, it seems Rosen and the Giants are a natural fit. I hope his medicals check out and we go with him because his skill is evident and I think he'd work well with a guy like Shurmur. Discuss away.


The 1998 NFL Draft: A Look Back at the Epic Ryan Leaf Bust | Retro Report | The New York Times - ( New Window )