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| The operation he underwent was exploratory. “They went in to diagnose what was wrong,” he said. “They knew where something was messed up; they didn’t know what it was. There were a few possibilities, they said before going in. Came out, said it was the best-case scenario.” What was found was soft tissue damage. “It’s like pulling a hamstring, almost, in the shoulder,” Rosen said. Did he fear something worse? Rosen laughed. “Hell yeah,” he said. He was spared not only a long recovery, but also psychological anguish. “A lot of guys with full reconstructive surgeries, whether it be knees, shoulders, anything like that, when they’re out eight to nine months it takes a real strong mental toll and you really have to fight through it,” he said. “I was a pretty quick four to five months, and I was back in the swing of things relatively quickly, considering what it could have been. I got to hit that emotional bottom, in a sense, pretty quickly, and I got to get back on the hor |
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| Quarterback Josh Rosen underwent successful shoulder surgery Monday morning to repair a soft tissue injury in his right shoulder, UCLA announced. The sophomore, who suffered the injury to his throwing shoulder a month ago against Arizona State, is expected to make a full recovery. Head coach Jim Mora said it is “100 percent not a nerve issue,” despite the coach mentioning a nerve issue two weeks ago. Mora reiterated that he misspoke when he initially mentioned a nerve issue and declined to give any specifics on the nature of the procedure performed Monday by Dr. Ranjan Gupta, professor of orthopedic surgery at UC Irvine Medical Center. When asked if the injury could be potentially career-threatening, Mora said “absolutely not." |
If you pass on a talent like Rosen, who would do pretty well in the New York market. You better damn well make sure you KNOW there is a qb in the 2019 draft that is as good or better and be ready to sell the farm to go up and get him if there even is a willing trade partner. Right now, there are no indications that's 2019 will produce any strong qbs.
Pick 34? Yes I would take a chance. But he will not be there then.
So Darnold to Cleveland at 1. Barkley to us at 2.
Pick 34? Yes I would take a chance. But he will not be there then.
So Darnold to Cleveland at 1. Barkley to us at 2.
I assume you are ok with the average shelf life of a running back then, to waste a number 2 pick on one.
The injuries/concussions are a concern, but not enough of a concern to dislodge him from the top of your draft board. The rest of the red flags are all bull shit. He is an offensive coordinator's wet dream.
Eli Apple was the safe pick.
Everything's risky. Drafting the best player at most important position (by far) on the field is the K-I-S-S principle. Violate the principle at considerable risk.
Don't think he'll get past the Jets. But apparently Denver loves Mayfield, they want him on their team for the senior bowl.
C'mon...this is nothing.
this
Phil,
Would you take him at 2?
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of the football.
Phil,
Would you take him at 2?
I'll answer for him lol hell fucking yes. He's a great QB.
He's nothing like Cutler.
This guy is the most accurate and best passer in the draft. If he also reads defenses well he'd be a no brainer at 2.
And this stuff about his body, Sy? The kid's just been measured at 6'3"/220. And he's 20 years old. He looks rock solid to me in a tight shirt, far more muscular than Eli ever was, or is now.
He's my target at 2 if we think his head is on straight.
This isn't true.
Rosen's concussions are the worry. No way he's had just 2.
He has not shown any signs of his shoulder being a problem.
Rosen is the better prospect with a better skill set. All of the questions about him are centered around his health. Darnold is safer and can potentially become a really good player, but Rosen's ceiling is higher and he's further ahead as a passer as well as mechanically.
I think the guy is either going to be Heath Shuler or Aaron Rodgers.
Nobody knows for sure which that will be- is Gettleman the gambling type or does he prefer the safe bet?
I know that personally I wouldn't touch him but I also know that the Giants are going to have the best neurologists and orthopedists in the world examine the kid and his history.
That's enough faith for me if the Giants do wind up taking him.
He can make all throws, has a great delivery, and elevates the talent around him. But that injury history, especially the concussion history, is a major red flag.
Call me crazy but I would not be at all surprised with Shurmur being the HC, if the Giants are less hesitant about going with a QB that might need some development, but projects well to the pro game. Shurmur has shown he can be successful developing Quarterbacks, and has produced great years with the likes of Nick Foles, Sam Bradford, and Case Keenum. Not exactly Canton material.
I think Davis Webb will get a long look from Shurmur during the lead up to the draft, and I think you cannot rule out the Giants taking a player that projects well but has question marks. Perhaps a Josh Allen, or maybe Mason Rudolph in the late first or early 2nd.
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Not true how? Darnolds upside is better and to me Rosen is further along now. If you disagree fine but I stand by this cause its true
Rosen is the better prospect with a better skill set. All of the questions about him are centered around his health. Darnold is safer and can potentially become a really good player, but Rosen's ceiling is higher and he's further ahead as a passer as well as mechanically.
Agree.
I’m sure they’ll go over his medicals with a fine tooth comb. They won’t take him unless they feel confident in his health.
If the Giants choose to select Rosen it will be only if their medical gives him clearance.
None of us know the extent of his injuries. I have read that the concussions were minor and that he was withheld for precautionary reasons. But that is hearsay.
If Rosen is deemed healthy his talent is undeniable.
He played in a pro style offense. He has great feet and knows how to buy time in the pocket. He can make all the throws and in tight windows.
He is more athletic than people give him credit for.
As evidenced that he was a top amateur tennis player.
He will surprise most of you when he physically tests out much better than other QBs.
He is young and needs to fill out and get stronger.
He is the best pocket passer in years and it would be a mistake to pass on him.
It's when he had the surgery Einstein.
The injuries/concussions are a concern, but not enough of a concern to dislodge him from the top of your draft board. The rest of the red flags are all bull shit. He is an offensive coordinator's wet dream.
Didn't Jared Goff have the same frame? Matt Ryan too, maybe, I know Goff did..? His frame would concern me more so if it came with Darnold's or Allen's skill set, Every QB gets hit but don't they do enough to protect these stay in the pocket passers which is exactly what Rosen is?
How do you like Rosen strictly as a passer or how do you compare him to some of the better QB's to have been drafted in recent years?
No, I don't think so.
Most of why he's in the mix is because he was fantastic in 2016.
It's worth noting that his OL was much worse this year, however - which likely played a role in his regression.
There's a lot of "potential" with Darnold. He has a lot of the traits you look for in a big time QB. But he's not quite there yet.
I like him as a prospect and I feel he's "safer" than Rosen from a health standpoint, but he has a bit to work on .
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Not true how? Darnolds upside is better and to me Rosen is further along now. If you disagree fine but I stand by this cause its true
Rosen is the better prospect with a better skill set. All of the questions about him are centered around his health. Darnold is safer and can potentially become a really good player, but Rosen's ceiling is higher and he's further ahead as a passer as well as mechanically.
Not just health... Character questions... he is no Maurice Clarett by any means but he hasn't gotten the best reviews in that department
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...but I wonder if Darnold was an unknown coming into this past season would he be discussed as a potential #1 pick? I watched parts of every game, and to say he was underwhelming would be putting it nicely. Inconsistent mechanics, poor decision making, and the admitted crisis of confidence are all true red flags to my eyes. Just curious, obviously I am not a scout so I admit I am basically ignorant...
No, I don't think so.
Most of why he's in the mix is because he was fantastic in 2016.
It's worth noting that his OL was much worse this year, however - which likely played a role in his regression.
There's a lot of "potential" with Darnold. He has a lot of the traits you look for in a big time QB. But he's not quite there yet.
I like him as a prospect and I feel he's "safer" than Rosen from a health standpoint, but he has a bit to work on .
Darnold is safer from a health standpoint but Rosen is safer from a talent standpoint. It is a really tough decision to make for the Giants. I personally wouldn't touch Rosen because of the concussions. If the Giants take him I won't complain but I would prefer they go elsewhere.
Hopefully our team makes the right one.
No shoulder issue and no concussion issue despite pulling double duty as the lead running threat... If that's not a sign of durability I don't know what is.
Not to mention, the way QBs are protected by the rules, the injury concerns should be mitigated at least somewhat. The kid is smart. Having him behind Eli for a year or two will show him how the most consistently available QB handles his business on and off the field. Can't ask for a better starting point in a gamble pick like this.
Not just health... Character questions... he is no Maurice Clarett by any means but he hasn't gotten the best reviews in that department
Not to mention that his father is a neurosurgeon/spine surgeon, who you would think would be very sensitive/conservative about his son continuing to play if he had another concussion. Obviously, all these QBs are at risk of injury playing in the NFL, even if they haven't been injured in college. I don't see how you can risk a pick this high for a QB with Rosen's already established injury history. It is far too important a pick for the franchise.
Medicals can't tell you what's going to happen on a football field a year from now let alone 2 - 3 years. Sure, you can say that about anyone coming out of the 2018 draft, but as of today, we only know of Rosen having concussion issues and not the other so-called top QB's in this draft.
Come on people, get real! It's not as if # 2 overall picks just fall from the sky. If he ends up taking a hard hit or two from "grown men" and he's out for an extended period with concussion symptoms, it's all over and you set your franchise back for years! Plain and simple, it's just not worth the risk!
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Why is Stanley posting an article from November 2016?
It's when he had the surgery Einstein.
I realize that. But what's your fucking point? You make none in the OP.
Or did you not realize you linked an article from 2016?
Didn't see this at first, but exactly Peppers.
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In comment 13794120 B in ALB said:
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Why is Stanley posting an article from November 2016?
It's when he had the surgery Einstein.
I realize that. But what's your fucking point? You make none in the OP.
Or did you not realize you linked an article from 2016?
Yeah, and I also linked an article from 2017, so what? Both are relevant.
His "character concerns" dont bother me. He was an 18/19 y/o kid in college in California during the most tumultuous election in US history.
The concussions bother me. Can anybody (other than Stan prerably) provide any insight into his concussion severity/timeline? I tried a quick google but am only seeing the stories about him being out for the Cactus Bowl.
Thats really not good if that happened to him in the COLLEGE game.
His "character concerns" dont bother me. He was an 18/19 y/o kid in college in California during the most tumultuous election in US history.
The concussions bother me. Can anybody (other than Stan prerably) provide any insight into his concussion severity/timeline? I tried a quick google but am only seeing the stories about him being out for the Cactus Bowl.
+1...I am wondering how doctor's can predict the likelihood of future concussions. The answer is they can't.
Aikman? And I think Steve Young
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...because of concussions?
Aikman? And I think Steve Young
But 2 in a month and a half is BAD.
His "character concerns" dont bother me. He was an 18/19 y/o kid in college in California during the most tumultuous election in US history.
The concussions bother me. Can anybody (other than Stan prerably) provide any insight into his concussion severity/timeline? I tried a quick google but am only seeing the stories about him being out for the Cactus Bowl.
Are one of his parents a physician,spinal surgeon? His parents are connected I assume looking at the pedigreee.
He can recklessly pursue his goals, make money and walk away with an education and connections. Let's not pursue this on the Giants dime, unless its a good investment with return.
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In comment 13794363 Milton said:
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...because of concussions?
Aikman? And I think Steve Young
Steve Young was 38-years old at the time. As for Aikman....
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The 2000 season was Aikman's final season as a professional football player. Aikman suffered from several concussions during the season, and a revolving door at QB took place between Aikman and former Eagles QB Randall Cunningham. Aikman's final game was at home against the Washington Redskins. He was hit by linebacker LaVar Arrington and suffered the tenth and final concussion of his career.....During a late December 2013 radio interview, Aikman said the real reason he retired was due to persistent back issues he had in his final season. Aikman explained that he had back surgery in the offseason following Super Bowl XXVII with no complications but by the time he reached his final season he was constantly getting treatment for back pain. While the hit by Arrington ended his 2000 season, he claims it was the back pain and not that concussion that ended his career.
Well in this day and age, the chances are HIGH that the league does not allow a player with 10 documented concussions to continue to play the sport.
I believe that it is close to 100%.
The issue about Rosen's concussions is overblown.
Rosen will be thoroughly examined at the combine. We'll have to trust the judgment of the Giants medical staff.
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You don't spend millions and future on damaged goods.
Todd Gurley--a RB coming off a torn ACL was still drafted 10th overall and I don't think the Rams regret it.
Rosen will be thoroughly examined at the combine. We'll have to trust the judgment of the Giants medical staff.
I am not concerned about the shoulder. What can the doctor's tell us about the concussions? As arc said I don't envy the guys who have to make the selection with the #2 pick.
I believe he is hands down the best qb prospect since Luck. He is a ready made qb who has far better athleticism than given credit for. Darnold is not far behind, just needs a little more polishing. I think his medicals will pan out just fine. I will say, for concussions the further out you get from one the less your risk is for another.
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You don't spend millions and future on damaged goods.
Todd Gurley--a RB coming off a torn ACL was still drafted 10th overall and I don't think the Rams regret it.
Rosen will be thoroughly examined at the combine. We'll have to trust the judgment of the Giants medical staff.
ACL's are so common now and the treatment/surgery/rehab is incredible in the advancement of those things. Guys come back way sooner than they used to, and as far as the surgery itself, there's no reason a top athlete can't come back at 100%.
It's completely different than a concussion as there is no surgery,or rehab for them. It's rest and healing of the brain, that's it. The likelihood of getting another one is probably about the same as getting the first but the recovery seems to take longer and worse with each subsequent one.
Way off the mark to compare the two IMO.
Right, who would be concerned with something as trivial as a the QB position and QB with a record of concussions especially if you have a chance to draft one at # 2 overall.
Nothing wrong with that - neither of us can prove our convictions on either player yet. We'll have to see how it plays out.
For the record, I'd actually prefer to draft Darnold only because Rosen's health scares me off.
1:1, I like Rosen a little more as a prospect - but I'd feel more comfortable taking Darnold.
Incidentally, I see a good bit of Eli on Sam Darnold.
This is my concern as well. He doesn't need football for money. If his health is at risk he will call it quits.
This is my concern as well. He doesn't need football for money. If his health is at risk he will call it quits.
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This is my concern as well. He doesn't need football for money. If his health is at risk he will call it quits.
Isn't this going to be true of whoever the Giants draft with the second pick?
It's probably truer and more of a concern for Rosen than others because of factors already mentioned.
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This is my concern as well. He doesn't need football for money. If his health is at risk he will call it quits.
Isn't this going to be true of whoever the Giants draft with the second pick?
How so? Many of these kids don't have plans after football or very wealthy parents.
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stated that he wants to be a business man and "own the world". In an interview I read he talked about how he wanted a seamless transition from the NFL to his business career to put into use his economics degree. Normally would applaud a young man for preparing himself for life post football but with the concussion history and his dad being a neurosurgeon it just seems like this transition would quicken his retirement from football if he got another serious concussion.
This is my concern as well. He doesn't need football for money. If his health is at risk he will call it quits.
I find this confusing only becasue wouldn't most NFL QB's, once they make it to a 2nd contract be able to retire without money concerns? His dad is a Neuro Surgeon, not a founder of GOOGLE for one. 2) Peyton Manning for example (there are many) was worth well over 100 million and had a Super Bowl ring when he had neck surgery. He still came back at almost 40 to continue playing (and happen to win again). If Rosen wants to play he will regardless of money. If you question his motivation to be an NFL QB that is fine. The concussion issues could be legit as well. Obviously the doctors for the Giants will need to thoroughly investigate. It is also possible that he was held out longer than normal because he is a potential NFL top pick.
I agree with most of the concerns listed here. I do also believe that he is clearly the most "talented" passer. I just can't agree with the money issue as being a reason he will retire early. Is it possible? yes of course..but that is a risk with any NFL player once they make it (see Calvin Johnson).
No thank you.
I find this confusing only becasue wouldn't most NFL QB's, once they make it to a 2nd contract be able to retire without money concerns?
My concern is that he may have to retire before his second contract. If he plays long enough and well enough to secure a second contract then money is no factor.
The criticism ranges from ;
Rosen does not want to play football,
He is as businessman who does not need football,
He is constantly injured.
Rosen is frail
He is not liked by his teamates
Rosen has a bad attitude
He has congenital injuries including brain trauma
What about his playing ability?
I watch way too much college football and I played division 1 football , so I have seen my fair share of college QBs
Rosen is the best QB prospect that I have seen since Luck
If he had a little more running ability he would be a better prospect than Luck.
Come on people, get real! It's not as if # 2 overall picks just fall from the sky.
Actually they do and it happens all too often. Mirer, Leaf....etc
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Come on people, get real! It's not as if # 2 overall picks just fall from the sky.
Actually they do and it happens all too often. Mirer, Leaf....etc
I don't think that was his point...
He means picking this high isn't common and doesn't happen often (unless you're Cleveland) - so it's a major opportunity and one we can't afford to whiff on if we take a QB.
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In comment 13794269 Stufftherun said:
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Come on people, get real! It's not as if # 2 overall picks just fall from the sky.
Actually they do and it happens all too often. Mirer, Leaf....etc
I don't think that was his point...
He means picking this high isn't common and doesn't happen often (unless you're Cleveland) - so it's a major opportunity and one we can't afford to whiff on if we take a QB.
No, I got that...was saying that it is also easy to pick the wrong one at 2.
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Ah, yeah - well - I guess the overall point is just that it's hard to take a gamble in a spot like this, which is why a lot of people are worried about drafting Rosen.
They're all gambles. The point is that Rosen is the safest pick.
The safest?
A player with his concussion history doesn't scream "safe" to me.
I know you love Rosen and are his biggest fan, but I don't think there's anything safe about drafting Josh Rosen 2nd overall.
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Ah, yeah - well - I guess the overall point is just that it's hard to take a gamble in a spot like this, which is why a lot of people are worried about drafting Rosen.
They're all gambles. The point is that Rosen is the safest pick.
Please explain how you could possibly think a guy with his injury history and an inabilty to start or finish 12 of his last 20 college games makes him the safest pick?
I'm with you on his talent and if it weren't for him being hurt so easily and often, I'd have no problem with your assessment or the Giants taking him at 2. With his injury history, no way is he the safest pick.
Thank you for explaining what I thought was obvious but it appears it's only obvious to those who open their eyes and understand what's truly at stake.
The criticism ranges from ;
Rosen does not want to play football,
He is as businessman who does not need football,
He is constantly injured.
Rosen is frail
He is not liked by his teamates
Rosen has a bad attitude
He has congenital injuries including brain trauma
What about his playing ability?
I watch way too much college football and I played division 1 football , so I have seen my fair share of college QBs
Rosen is the best QB prospect that I have seen since Luck
If he had a little more running ability he would be a better prospect than Luck.
"Looking to find reasons not to draft him"? Yeah, I'm sure all 32 teams, or the teams drafting high enough to have a legitimate shot at him, won't bother doing their due diligence and will overlook all that you've referenced and more on Rosen.
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...because of concussions?
Aikman? And I think Steve Young
Aikman played for 11 years, but retired due to Concussions.
If he isn't then we picked the most talented QB on board...
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In comment 13794393 Giantslifer said:
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You don't spend millions and future on damaged goods.
Todd Gurley--a RB coming off a torn ACL was still drafted 10th overall and I don't think the Rams regret it.
Rosen will be thoroughly examined at the combine. We'll have to trust the judgment of the Giants medical staff.
ACL's are so common now and the treatment/surgery/rehab is incredible in the advancement of those things. Guys come back way sooner than they used to, and as far as the surgery itself, there's no reason a top athlete can't come back at 100%.
It's completely different than a concussion as there is no surgery,or rehab for them. It's rest and healing of the brain, that's it. The likelihood of getting another one is probably about the same as getting the first but the recovery seems to take longer and worse with each subsequent one.
Way off the mark to compare the two IMO.
Aikman played for 11 years, but retired due to Concussions.
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In comment 13794398 Milton said:
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In comment 13794393 Giantslifer said:
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You don't spend millions and future on damaged goods.
Todd Gurley--a RB coming off a torn ACL was still drafted 10th overall and I don't think the Rams regret it.
Rosen will be thoroughly examined at the combine. We'll have to trust the judgment of the Giants medical staff.
ACL's are so common now and the treatment/surgery/rehab is incredible in the advancement of those things. Guys come back way sooner than they used to, and as far as the surgery itself, there's no reason a top athlete can't come back at 100%.
It's completely different than a concussion as there is no surgery,or rehab for them. It's rest and healing of the brain, that's it. The likelihood of getting another one is probably about the same as getting the first but the recovery seems to take longer and worse with each subsequent one.
Way off the mark to compare the two IMO.
Pay attention. It wasn't in reference to the concussions, it was in reference to the shoulder surgery and worries that Rosen is injury prone.
Well the concussions are part of his injury history and I didn't see you specifically excluding those in your post.
I'd also say getting two in a month or so is what I'd consider "injury prone" and reason to worry about drafting him at 2.