This is good news for the team and the organization. Everybody thinks Spags is the best and it will make for an easier transition up and down the line. MO
Mara will once again hurt this team by trying to stay loyal to guys he likes such as Spags. There are great options available like George Edwards, James Bettcher, Jack Del Rio, Kris Richard, etc and the Giants want to keep a guy who has been the coordinator of three of the worst ranked defenses of all time.
Mara will once again hurt this team by trying to stay loyal to guys he likes such as Spags. There are great options available like George Edwards, James Bettcher, Jack Del Rio, Kris Richard, etc and the Giants want to keep a guy who has been the coordinator of three of the worst ranked defenses of all time.
R-E-L-A-X. We have no idea if Spags & Co. are coming back.
Their defense had talent yet it finishes among the worst in football. Most of the malcontent's came from the defensive side of the ball so he clearly wasn't able to control these guys either. My expectations for next season will go way down if Spags returns.
Mara will once again hurt this team by trying to stay loyal to guys he likes such as Spags. There are great options available like George Edwards, James Bettcher, Jack Del Rio, Kris Richard, etc and the Giants want to keep a guy who has been the coordinator of three of the worst ranked defenses of all time.
R-E-L-A-X. We have no idea if Spags & Co. are coming back.
It's hard to relax when we all know what's coming. This is a franchise that brought Tom Quinn back year after year.
I think Shurmur will allowed to pick his own staff. Â
Mara will once again hurt this team by trying to stay loyal to guys he likes such as Spags. There are great options available like George Edwards, James Bettcher, Jack Del Rio, Kris Richard, etc and the Giants want to keep a guy who has been the coordinator of three of the worst ranked defenses of all time.
Wasn't Spags the defensive coordinator in 2016 when they had one of the best defenses in the league? I guess he had nothing to do with that.
I didn't think it was ever possible to get to this point again Â
People were posting that it's starting to remind them of the 70's again. Having lived through the 70's I laughed at that. But guess what if Spags and/or Quinn are back it really is like the 70's again. That's exactly the kind of stuff Wellington would do.
The same people complaining about Spags staying were probably the same complaining about Marc Ross staying.
We do not know what is coming. GM said he would allow the next coach to assemble his own staff. The next day he said everyone was free to look for new employment.
Time will tell.
RE: I think Shurmur will allowed to pick his own staff. Â
but seriously, if they fired the coach and GM in mid season only to force the Spags crew on the new hire, that would be stupid. And would really piss me off. This guy Spags must have the same pictures that Quinn has, maybe worse. SInce when did he become Tom Landry or Buddy Ryan? He sucks.
Mara will once again hurt this team by trying to stay loyal to guys he likes such as Spags. There are great options available like George Edwards, James Bettcher, Jack Del Rio, Kris Richard, etc and the Giants want to keep a guy who has been the coordinator of three of the worst ranked defenses of all time.
Wasn't Spags the defensive coordinator in 2016 when they had one of the best defenses in the league? I guess he had nothing to do with that.
Yes he did and in 2017 with more talent the defense took a huge step back. I guess that one season of a 10th ranked defense makes up for three seasons of historically bad defenses.
Being DC of two of the worst defenses in NFL history and three defenses that were ranked 31st or 32nd in the league during their respective seasons doesn't happen by accident.
Mara will once again hurt this team by trying to stay loyal to guys he likes such as Spags. There are great options available like George Edwards, James Bettcher, Jack Del Rio, Kris Richard, etc and the Giants want to keep a guy who has been the coordinator of three of the worst ranked defenses of all time.
Wasn't Spags the defensive coordinator in 2016 when they had one of the best defenses in the league? I guess he had nothing to do with that.
Yes he did and in 2017 with more talent the defense took a huge step back. I guess that one season of a 10th ranked defense makes up for three seasons of historically bad defenses.
I'm with you Jay RE: Spags should not get a pass for this year...but I have to disagree with more talent. Where?
why I didnt want Shurmur. For weeks we all screamed about a total house cleaning and now we are looking at, at the very least, a realistic possibility of one holdover coordinator and some coaches along with him.
and then people will think everyone is against Spags staying as DC.
Register my vote for Spags to stay on. He's a good person, good coach, with an aggressive scheme. I take that every time over a Tim Lewis or Perry Fewell type defense.
if Spags stays. At this point, I doubt a decision has been made since Shurmur (assuming he is the new HC) is still coaching a team in the playoffs and probably had little to no time to start identifying his staff. If it was anyone else as the new HC, I would have bet that Spags would be moving on. But he and Shurmur do have a history.
I don't know how you bring back the coach that presided over the mess that was our defense this past season. Completely disintegrated, multiple players suspended/quitting on and off the field. No leadership. Should, at least, be an indication that Spags is not the right guy to lead this current group....and yet somehow it certainly does feel like it will be completely glossed over.
and defense frustrations with our offense and one or more malcontents on defense, not sure we should blame Spags completely the DL coordinator (gone?) and the secondary guy hand their problems with guys that were not professional and very immature.
Mara will once again hurt this team by trying to stay loyal to guys he likes such as Spags. There are great options available like George Edwards, James Bettcher, Jack Del Rio, Kris Richard, etc and the Giants want to keep a guy who has been the coordinator of three of the worst ranked defenses of all time.
It's a fucking joke Jay. What would be the reaction to this?:
"Mara and the Giants have decided to pay back a man who orchestrated a thrilling SB winning defense in PERRY FEWELL. The Giants feel that Perry's record has shown he can command the room and produce championship winning schemes."
There would be utter outrage here on this board. Same # of rings as the genius Spags, but without 5 of the all time worst defenses and the 11-41 record as a HC.
is just because Shurmer has his 15m of fame with the Vikings , Diggs photo ops and other shit it will be difficult here as we need to rebuilt in a few areas with some guys that are not 1's and 2's but 3s (losers) to paraphrase Jack Welch. His first challenge will be to purge the 3's and many are on the offense and a few on defense.
Plenty of DCs keep their units together while the offense struggles. And even if they don't get top performance, I don't know that I've ever seen a unit come apart at the seams the way our defense did this year. He was the DC under an offensive minded/focused HC. I'm sorry, blaming it all on Macadoo is letting him off way too easy, imo. And frankly, while the offense was bad, the biggest difference between our wins last year and our losses this year was the performance of the D. I don't know how folks on here don't judge him more harshly.
and then people will think everyone is against Spags staying as DC.
Register my vote for Spags to stay on. He's a good person, good coach, with an aggressive scheme. I take that every time over a Tim Lewis or Perry Fewell type defense.
I'm no huge fan of his, but Perry Fewell NEVER posted a defense as bad as the record breaking disasters that Spags has produced. 3 of the 5 and 5 of the 10 worst all time. And a unit that Spags is responsible for is filled with undisciplined malcontents. Fewell never had the back biting and griping either. Isn't "command the room" one of the stips for the job?
We know, it's not Spags fault that his defenses have histotically sucked for 3 different teams. '07 and '16 are abberations fot Spags. The ball gagrling is beyond fucking ridiculous already
Start firing his assistants when technically, the dooms day scenario can stil happen and Shurmer take the AZ gig. If all that shit does go down, Spags is the fall back emergency option. I am not doubting validity of Shurmur maybe keeping Spags, but some of you are getting way too far ahead of yourselves.
I resemble that remark. I was surprised how quickly they let Ross go. I like Spags. I'll always like Spags. But I think the Giants need a complete sweep of the coaching staff.
The same people complaining about Spags staying were probably the same complaining about Marc Ross staying.
We do not know what is coming. GM said he would allow the next coach to assemble his own staff. The next day he said everyone was free to look for new employment.
Time will tell.
He also said that he thought that they’re were a lot of good coaches on the staff and that he hoped the new coach would give them a look.
Plenty of DCs keep their units together while the offense struggles. And even if they don't get top performance, I don't know that I've ever seen a unit come apart at the seams the way our defense did this year. He was the DC under an offensive minded/focused HC. I'm sorry, blaming it all on Macadoo is letting him off way too easy, imo. And frankly, while the offense was bad, the biggest difference between our wins last year and our losses this year was the performance of the D. I don't know how folks on here don't judge him more harshly.
However he does get one pass the offense held the record for three and outs that’s pathetic
Not many defenses can do much with that kind of futility
But he does have to answer for the malcontents and the suspensions
The longer this goes without hearing anything, the more it looks like Spagnuolo is coming back, which is not something that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. I want John Fox!!!
but he has coached some good defenses. With NY, more often than not, he has put a good defensive gameplan and unit on the field. This year was dysfunctional and reading between the lines, I believe McAdoo was perhaps too heavy-handed in his dealings with the defense. The D responded when Spags was the head coach. And don't kid yourself, Spags IS a good defensive coach and highly regarded Throughout the NFL. I am okay with Spags remaining- he is a professional, has strong feelings for the organization and perhaps can work well with Shurmer, as he did with Coughlin.
At the end of the day, its about players and this year, as it was two years ago, the Giants didn't have players, whether because of a thin roster, or injury.
He's had some very good defenses in the past. Most recently, his group got the 11 wins in 2016, not much of anything that the offense or special teams did.
And it appears to me that most of the personnel problems last year came from three areas starting with Reese left-handing the LB group, injuries including JPP's self-inflicted hand issue, and McAdoo's gross mismanagement.
I'm also high on David Merritt, the Safeties coach. He warned Reese of the impending disaster at Safety in 2009 and has generally done a good job with that group despite really not a whole lot to work with.
I'm with you Jay RE: Spags should not get a pass for this year...but I have to disagree with more talent. Where?
Goodson over Shepperd, Darian Thompson over Adams, Cockrell over Wade. Now I know injuries played a part in the performance of the defense but they should have performed far better than they did.
I'm with you Jay RE: Spags should not get a pass for this year...but I have to disagree with more talent. Where?
Goodson over Shepperd, Darian Thompson over Adams, Cockrell over Wade. Now I know injuries played a part in the performance of the defense but they should have performed far better than they did.
You also have to factor in that the D was worn down by far too many three and outs.
in his thanks you's he says, "...Steve Spagnuolo... the Rams. My two years there were tremendous."
At this point I would be surprised if Spagnuolo was NOT the DC. Couple of thank you's - ( New Window )
While valid, and I heard that myself, that is very typical of a coordinator that was newly annointed to HC to give a thank you to the HC that propped him up to be seen as an option for the job.
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I have to agree with Eric
Milton : 2:25 pm : link : reply
The longer this goes without hearing anything, the more it looks like Spagnuolo is coming back, which is not something that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. I want John Fox!!!
I have been thinking of that quite a bit too Milton. Not only for the nostalgia and his obvious track record with running defenses. I also think it would be nice to have a DC with HC experience. More respected and also is a clear indicatoir that that is HIS unit to run.
I am sure any perspective head coach has provided management with a listing of the assistants they will bring. Another thing to keep in mind about the Giants coaching staff defensively in 2017 is that, outside of Graham, no position coach has ties to any other organization besides the Giants and/or any other head coaches in the NFL. Even though someone like Bill McGovern (LB Coach) held that same position in Philly, it was under Chip Kelly who is not in the NFL at this time.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: You have to be kidding me Â
I'm with you Jay RE: Spags should not get a pass for this year...but I have to disagree with more talent. Where?
Goodson over Shepperd, Darian Thompson over Adams, Cockrell over Wade. Now I know injuries played a part in the performance of the defense but they should have performed far better than they did.
You also have to factor in that the D was worn down by far too many three and outs.
Yeah I guess I see the point of being "better" on paper, but Goodson didnt see the field nearly enough as evidenced by the scrap heap of linebackers that had to be signed throughout the year (including Sheppard).
Also, Thompson is right behind Eli Apple for me in terms of most disappointing player on defense. Adams looked leagues better when he got in the game later in the year.
If the Giants are going to use Collins all over the field, the FS has to make better reads in coverage, especially 1 deep and Thompson was just not good. Even Adams who while not as physically gifted, at least made better reads.
Follow me, somewhere between the second and third game when it became apparent that the play calling by Coach Mac was hanging the defense out to dry, leaving them on the field for long periods of time while the O was going 3 and out. Spag's cooked his plan and shared it with the defense who went along, the D let up, players started getting suspended and by week 10 it was all over.
A few weeks later Mac commits career suicide in an effort to save his skin and benches Eli. We all know how that turned out and a week later Spag's became head coach of the New York Giants... Mission accomplished. Spag's gets lucky with the hiring of Gettleman who is not against hiring Shurmur. Shurmur comes and keeps his buddy Spags.
It makes perfect sense!
RE: Maybe, just maybe, this was a coup led by Spags that worked Â
Follow me, somewhere between the second and third game when it became apparent that the play calling by Coach Mac was hanging the defense out to dry, leaving them on the field for long periods of time while the O was going 3 and out. Spag's cooked his plan and shared it with the defense who went along, the D let up, players started getting suspended and by week 10 it was all over.
A few weeks later Mac commits career suicide in an effort to save his skin and benches Eli. We all know how that turned out and a week later Spag's became head coach of the New York Giants... Mission accomplished. Spag's gets lucky with the hiring of Gettleman who is not against hiring Shurmur. Shurmur comes and keeps his buddy Spags.
and confronted Spags. The defense backed Spags and threatened Quinn with bodily harm if he spilled the beans to Mac. Quinn eventually went along with the plan, bringing the special teams in on the coup, but only after he too would be assured a spot on the new coaching staff. Spags agreed..had to.
will get another head job or go to TV. Why would he come here to be DC this year?
Hearing names like Billy Davis getting floated around is making Spags staying look better and better...
I am waiting for confirmation before I get upset but if they pass on all those promising alternatives to keep Spagnuolo I will really lose all faith in Mara. I am beginning to grow more concerned that Mara is becoming more involved in football decisions. The best decision would be to let his HC pick his assistants who will share his beliefs and run things the way he wants them to run.
I don't want Mara to become a meddling owner like Jerry Jones. Shurmur might have a solid relationship with George Edwards and with Edwards' contract expiring at season's end perhaps he could bring Edwards over as his DC.
First of all, I find him vastly overrated. Second, the defense is where we showed the signs of dysfunction all season. Third, the D overall regressed. What has any of the position coaches done to warrant retention? Who, outside of Collins, has gotten significantly better under this regime?
will get another head job or go to TV. Why would he come here to be DC this year?
Hearing names like Billy Davis getting floated around is making Spags staying look better and better...
I am waiting for confirmation before I get upset but if they pass on all those promising alternatives to keep Spagnuolo I will really lose all faith in Mara. I am beginning to grow more concerned that Mara is becoming more involved in football decisions. The best decision would be to let his HC pick his assistants who will share his beliefs and run things the way he wants them to run.
I don't want Mara to become a meddling owner like Jerry Jones. Shurmur might have a solid relationship with George Edwards and with Edwards' contract expiring at season's end perhaps he could bring Edwards over as his DC.
But how do you know Spags isn’t Shurmers choice? He is obviously fond of him and they have worked together. That’s the the problem lately. Every time a decision is made that someone disagrees with they automatically point to Mara. It’s possible that Mara is behind this, but even if Shurmers comes out and says it was his decision, people are still going to accuse him of not being truthful because they WANT to blame Mara.
But how do you know Spags isn’t Shurmers choice? He is obviously fond of him and they have worked together. That’s the the problem lately. Every time a decision is made that someone disagrees with they automatically point to Mara. It’s possible that Mara is behind this, but even if Shurmers comes out and says it was his decision, people are still going to accuse him of not being truthful because they WANT to blame Mara.
If Spag's is retained and Shurmur said that it was his decision then I will believe him. With that said I expect Shurmur to at least push for Edwards as DC.
have blinders on when it comes to Spags. If any Joe Schmo off the street had his record you'd laugh him out of the building, but Spags gets a pass, always. It's never his fault.
Think about what you're suggesting for one fucking second, he presided over the TWO WORST defenses in NFL history. We won 3 games this year, and his side of the ball was full of malcontents, and drama.
It's time to let him go. You all act like battered wives in denial that Spags is bad for you.
but he has coached some good defenses. With NY, more often than not, he has put a good defensive gameplan and unit on the field. This year was dysfunctional and reading between the lines, I believe McAdoo was perhaps too heavy-handed in his dealings with the defense. The D responded when Spags was the head coach. And don't kid yourself, Spags IS a good defensive coach and highly regarded Throughout the NFL. I am okay with Spags remaining- he is a professional, has strong feelings for the organization and perhaps can work well with Shurmer, as he did with Coughlin.
At the end of the day, its about players and this year, as it was two years ago, the Giants didn't have players, whether because of a thin roster, or injury.
The point regarding the players is somewhat valid, however it would be one thing if there was just some regression because of injuries of whatever other factors. That's not what happens with Spagnuolo's defenses, however. When it's not going well, it goes absolutely horribly.
It's not like his defenses go from good to middle of the pack; he has three defenses in the past six years that rank 31st or 32nd in the league. He has two defenses that are among the worst in NFL history. I'm not sure how fans are able to ignore that so easily.
This is good news for the team and the organization. Everybody thinks Spags is the best and it will make for an easier transition up and down the line. MO
will get another head job or go to TV. Why would he come here to be DC this year?
Hearing names like Billy Davis getting floated around is making Spags staying look better and better...
I am waiting for confirmation before I get upset but if they pass on all those promising alternatives to keep Spagnuolo I will really lose all faith in Mara. I am beginning to grow more concerned that Mara is becoming more involved in football decisions. The best decision would be to let his HC pick his assistants who will share his beliefs and run things the way he wants them to run.
I don't want Mara to become a meddling owner like Jerry Jones. Shurmur might have a solid relationship with George Edwards and with Edwards' contract expiring at season's end perhaps he could bring Edwards over as his DC.
Wouldnt be the end of the world to me if Spags was retained. Shurmur gives him knew more chance to redeem his career, especially if no other great candidates are available ( which it appears there aren't). Spags blows it this year, and the Giants can fire him.
With all the right players in the right spot, his defenses can run very well. But if the road gets bumpy or you put shitty gas in the tank, the whole thing goes to shit. In a league so largely defined by injuries and roster turnover that is a problem.
Belichick has a great quote: "The less versatile you are the better you have to be at what you can do."
I believe in football that quote applies not only to schemes and play calling, but to aspects like roster construction, fluidity to adjust to unplanned personnel changes, etc.
In this aspect Spags has not done well since we first met him in 2007. Injure a key player and the entire thing falls apart.
This for me was what made Patricia attractive. His defenses perform despite injuries, in season trades of top players, and season to session roster turnover.
Way worse things than a DC who has presided over two of the five worst defenses in NFL history and has another 31st ranked defense on his resume from this past season?
Take away the nostalgia from 2007-08 and Spags would (rightfully) be public enemy #1 for most fans.
Way worse things than a DC who has presided over two of the five worst defenses in NFL history and has another 31st ranked defense on his resume from this past season?
Take away the nostalgia from 2007-08 and Spags would (rightfully) be public enemy #1 for most fans.
And he's also presided over three top 10 defenses with the Giants and had the #2 ranked defense as recently as last season. His results have absolutely been erratic, but he isn't a bad coach.
or mad if Spags stayed on as DC. However they need to get him some linebackers that can actually make a play and some more help on the DL. OV and JPP cannot play 95% of the snaps two years in a row..
The Giants choose the safe 8-8 path.
Spags will stay and we will be a 6-10 to 9-7 for the next 5 years.
Shurmer is a average coordinator, you can blame it on talent.
But his successful years were on the coat tails of a strong offensive hc.
Watch McDaniels play calling and watch Shurmer's and tell me who should be the next head coach.
Giants have become overly safe and vanilla.
Way worse things than a DC who has presided over two of the five worst defenses in NFL history and has another 31st ranked defense on his resume from this past season?
Take away the nostalgia from 2007-08 and Spags would (rightfully) be public enemy #1 for most fans.
And he's also presided over three top 10 defenses with the Giants and had the #2 ranked defense as recently as last season. His results have absolutely been erratic, but he isn't a bad coach.
Three top-10 and #2 last year? Can't have it both ways - it's either three top-10 and #10 last year (total defense - yards), or two top-10 and #2 last year (scoring defense - points).
I still don't see what the benefit is in signing up for that kind of inconsistency when there are better options available. It's nothing more than nostalgia.
On average, his defenses (as DC only), have been #20 in yards and #19 in points. Add in his years as HC with the Rams, and those numbers drop slightly, to #21 in yards and #20 in points.
And that's without considering the dysfunction that existed entirely on his side of the ball this past season, the potential issues with keeping the interim HC on the staff, the career 11-41 record as a HC, the fact that two of his three good seasons came a decade ago while his three worst seasons came in his last four years as a DC. Should I continue?
Spagnuolo seems like a nice enough guy, but his results are really, really mediocre - and that's being kind. Maybe I'm just nostalgic.
If he should remain shows how truly screwed up this organization is blame the HC and GM because the team sucked on offense and defense but bring back the DC? Look the offense sucked big time but it was the defense that fell asleep game after game. One player on the DL earned his money the rest all 10-20+ pulled of major theft all year long.
RE: The big problem with Spags is his defense is a Ferrari Â
With all the right players in the right spot, his defenses can run very well. But if the road gets bumpy or you put shitty gas in the tank, the whole thing goes to shit. In a league so largely defined by injuries and roster turnover that is a problem.
Belichick has a great quote: "The less versatile you are the better you have to be at what you can do."
I believe in football that quote applies not only to schemes and play calling, but to aspects like roster construction, fluidity to adjust to unplanned personnel changes, etc.
In this aspect Spags has not done well since we first met him in 2007. Injure a key player and the entire thing falls apart.
This for me was what made Patricia attractive. His defenses perform despite injuries, in season trades of top players, and season to session roster turnover.
First of all, I find him vastly overrated. Second, the defense is where we showed the signs of dysfunction all season. Third, the D overall regressed. What has any of the position coaches done to warrant retention? Who, outside of Collins, has gotten significantly better under this regime?
Snacks. Bj Goodsen. Jenkins became one of best in NFL here.
This thread is a great example of whats wrong with the world. Â
Have any defensive coaches found jobs elsewhere? Has Spags been rumored to interview elsewhere? I think these are clear signs that he is staying on.
I'm not sure how I feel about it. I think Spags is a good defensive coach when he has the personnel. This year was surprising in how badly it performed, but I wonder how much of that was dysfunction within the locker room that was simply out of Spags control. A shitty offense is not going to help things either. There is some truth to a "good offense being the best defense".
Is there a better guy out there right now? You could take a chance (and that is what it is) on a guy who has not been a DC and it could work out really well. Or you could stick with a guy who does have experience as a good DC and has been a HC. (Idiots do not become NFL head coaches) Spags staying is certainly not an inspired choice, but it may well be the best choice.
R-E-L-A-X. We have no idea if Spags & Co. are coming back.
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Mara will once again hurt this team by trying to stay loyal to guys he likes such as Spags. There are great options available like George Edwards, James Bettcher, Jack Del Rio, Kris Richard, etc and the Giants want to keep a guy who has been the coordinator of three of the worst ranked defenses of all time.
R-E-L-A-X. We have no idea if Spags & Co. are coming back.
It's hard to relax when we all know what's coming. This is a franchise that brought Tom Quinn back year after year.
There is no good reason for him to keep his job. Outside of 2016, he has coached some of the worst defenses in recent history.
Wasn't Spags the defensive coordinator in 2016 when they had one of the best defenses in the league? I guess he had nothing to do with that.
We do not know what is coming. GM said he would allow the next coach to assemble his own staff. The next day he said everyone was free to look for new employment.
Time will tell.
Maybe he has if Spags is staying.
Quote:
Mara will once again hurt this team by trying to stay loyal to guys he likes such as Spags. There are great options available like George Edwards, James Bettcher, Jack Del Rio, Kris Richard, etc and the Giants want to keep a guy who has been the coordinator of three of the worst ranked defenses of all time.
Wasn't Spags the defensive coordinator in 2016 when they had one of the best defenses in the league? I guess he had nothing to do with that.
Yes he did and in 2017 with more talent the defense took a huge step back. I guess that one season of a 10th ranked defense makes up for three seasons of historically bad defenses.
But... but... "Everybody thinks Spags is the best"
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In comment 13794101 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
Mara will once again hurt this team by trying to stay loyal to guys he likes such as Spags. There are great options available like George Edwards, James Bettcher, Jack Del Rio, Kris Richard, etc and the Giants want to keep a guy who has been the coordinator of three of the worst ranked defenses of all time.
Wasn't Spags the defensive coordinator in 2016 when they had one of the best defenses in the league? I guess he had nothing to do with that.
Yes he did and in 2017 with more talent the defense took a huge step back. I guess that one season of a 10th ranked defense makes up for three seasons of historically bad defenses.
I'm with you Jay RE: Spags should not get a pass for this year...but I have to disagree with more talent. Where?
Hopefully it doesnt happen.
Register my vote for Spags to stay on. He's a good person, good coach, with an aggressive scheme. I take that every time over a Tim Lewis or Perry Fewell type defense.
But...
All that changes if the New England dysfunction isn't repaired... And I believe it's irreconcilable.
Shurmur's star is rising... And the PR of him coming here is good for him even if it doesn't happen. He knows this... So does Pat.
I don't get it.
It's a fucking joke Jay. What would be the reaction to this?:
"Mara and the Giants have decided to pay back a man who orchestrated a thrilling SB winning defense in PERRY FEWELL. The Giants feel that Perry's record has shown he can command the room and produce championship winning schemes."
There would be utter outrage here on this board. Same # of rings as the genius Spags, but without 5 of the all time worst defenses and the 11-41 record as a HC.
Register my vote for Spags to stay on. He's a good person, good coach, with an aggressive scheme. I take that every time over a Tim Lewis or Perry Fewell type defense.
I'm no huge fan of his, but Perry Fewell NEVER posted a defense as bad as the record breaking disasters that Spags has produced. 3 of the 5 and 5 of the 10 worst all time. And a unit that Spags is responsible for is filled with undisciplined malcontents. Fewell never had the back biting and griping either. Isn't "command the room" one of the stips for the job?
We know, it's not Spags fault that his defenses have histotically sucked for 3 different teams. '07 and '16 are abberations fot Spags. The ball gagrling is beyond fucking ridiculous already
We do not know what is coming. GM said he would allow the next coach to assemble his own staff. The next day he said everyone was free to look for new employment.
Time will tell.
He also said that he thought that they’re were a lot of good coaches on the staff and that he hoped the new coach would give them a look.
However he does get one pass the offense held the record for three and outs that’s pathetic
Not many defenses can do much with that kind of futility
But he does have to answer for the malcontents and the suspensions
My opinion is clean house.
At the end of the day, its about players and this year, as it was two years ago, the Giants didn't have players, whether because of a thin roster, or injury.
And it appears to me that most of the personnel problems last year came from three areas starting with Reese left-handing the LB group, injuries including JPP's self-inflicted hand issue, and McAdoo's gross mismanagement.
I'm also high on David Merritt, the Safeties coach. He warned Reese of the impending disaster at Safety in 2009 and has generally done a good job with that group despite really not a whole lot to work with.
I'm with you Jay RE: Spags should not get a pass for this year...but I have to disagree with more talent. Where?
Goodson over Shepperd, Darian Thompson over Adams, Cockrell over Wade. Now I know injuries played a part in the performance of the defense but they should have performed far better than they did.
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I'm with you Jay RE: Spags should not get a pass for this year...but I have to disagree with more talent. Where?
Goodson over Shepperd, Darian Thompson over Adams, Cockrell over Wade. Now I know injuries played a part in the performance of the defense but they should have performed far better than they did.
At this point I would be surprised if Spagnuolo was NOT the DC.
Couple of thank you's - ( New Window )
At this point I would be surprised if Spagnuolo was NOT the DC. Couple of thank you's - ( New Window )
While valid, and I heard that myself, that is very typical of a coordinator that was newly annointed to HC to give a thank you to the HC that propped him up to be seen as an option for the job.
Milton : 2:25 pm : link : reply
The longer this goes without hearing anything, the more it looks like Spagnuolo is coming back, which is not something that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. I want John Fox!!!
I have been thinking of that quite a bit too Milton. Not only for the nostalgia and his obvious track record with running defenses. I also think it would be nice to have a DC with HC experience. More respected and also is a clear indicatoir that that is HIS unit to run.
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In comment 13794195 bLiTz 2k said:
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I'm with you Jay RE: Spags should not get a pass for this year...but I have to disagree with more talent. Where?
Goodson over Shepperd, Darian Thompson over Adams, Cockrell over Wade. Now I know injuries played a part in the performance of the defense but they should have performed far better than they did.
You also have to factor in that the D was worn down by far too many three and outs.
Yeah I guess I see the point of being "better" on paper, but Goodson didnt see the field nearly enough as evidenced by the scrap heap of linebackers that had to be signed throughout the year (including Sheppard).
Also, Thompson is right behind Eli Apple for me in terms of most disappointing player on defense. Adams looked leagues better when he got in the game later in the year.
If the Giants are going to use Collins all over the field, the FS has to make better reads in coverage, especially 1 deep and Thompson was just not good. Even Adams who while not as physically gifted, at least made better reads.
Hearing names like Billy Davis getting floated around is making Spags staying look better and better...
A few weeks later Mac commits career suicide in an effort to save his skin and benches Eli. We all know how that turned out and a week later Spag's became head coach of the New York Giants... Mission accomplished. Spag's gets lucky with the hiring of Gettleman who is not against hiring Shurmur. Shurmur comes and keeps his buddy Spags.
It makes perfect sense!
A few weeks later Mac commits career suicide in an effort to save his skin and benches Eli. We all know how that turned out and a week later Spag's became head coach of the New York Giants... Mission accomplished. Spag's gets lucky with the hiring of Gettleman who is not against hiring Shurmur. Shurmur comes and keeps his buddy Spags.
It makes perfect sense!
Yeah...or this makes more sense:
So there it is..
Hearing names like Billy Davis getting floated around is making Spags staying look better and better...
I am waiting for confirmation before I get upset but if they pass on all those promising alternatives to keep Spagnuolo I will really lose all faith in Mara. I am beginning to grow more concerned that Mara is becoming more involved in football decisions. The best decision would be to let his HC pick his assistants who will share his beliefs and run things the way he wants them to run.
I don't want Mara to become a meddling owner like Jerry Jones. Shurmur might have a solid relationship with George Edwards and with Edwards' contract expiring at season's end perhaps he could bring Edwards over as his DC.
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will get another head job or go to TV. Why would he come here to be DC this year?
Hearing names like Billy Davis getting floated around is making Spags staying look better and better...
I am waiting for confirmation before I get upset but if they pass on all those promising alternatives to keep Spagnuolo I will really lose all faith in Mara. I am beginning to grow more concerned that Mara is becoming more involved in football decisions. The best decision would be to let his HC pick his assistants who will share his beliefs and run things the way he wants them to run.
I don't want Mara to become a meddling owner like Jerry Jones. Shurmur might have a solid relationship with George Edwards and with Edwards' contract expiring at season's end perhaps he could bring Edwards over as his DC.
But how do you know Spags isn’t Shurmers choice? He is obviously fond of him and they have worked together. That’s the the problem lately. Every time a decision is made that someone disagrees with they automatically point to Mara. It’s possible that Mara is behind this, but even if Shurmers comes out and says it was his decision, people are still going to accuse him of not being truthful because they WANT to blame Mara.
But how do you know Spags isn’t Shurmers choice? He is obviously fond of him and they have worked together. That’s the the problem lately. Every time a decision is made that someone disagrees with they automatically point to Mara. It’s possible that Mara is behind this, but even if Shurmers comes out and says it was his decision, people are still going to accuse him of not being truthful because they WANT to blame Mara.
If Spag's is retained and Shurmur said that it was his decision then I will believe him. With that said I expect Shurmur to at least push for Edwards as DC.
Think about what you're suggesting for one fucking second, he presided over the TWO WORST defenses in NFL history. We won 3 games this year, and his side of the ball was full of malcontents, and drama.
It's time to let him go. You all act like battered wives in denial that Spags is bad for you.
At the end of the day, its about players and this year, as it was two years ago, the Giants didn't have players, whether because of a thin roster, or injury.
The point regarding the players is somewhat valid, however it would be one thing if there was just some regression because of injuries of whatever other factors. That's not what happens with Spagnuolo's defenses, however. When it's not going well, it goes absolutely horribly.
It's not like his defenses go from good to middle of the pack; he has three defenses in the past six years that rank 31st or 32nd in the league. He has two defenses that are among the worst in NFL history. I'm not sure how fans are able to ignore that so easily.
Everybody thinks spags is the best? Dude...
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will get another head job or go to TV. Why would he come here to be DC this year?
Hearing names like Billy Davis getting floated around is making Spags staying look better and better...
I am waiting for confirmation before I get upset but if they pass on all those promising alternatives to keep Spagnuolo I will really lose all faith in Mara. I am beginning to grow more concerned that Mara is becoming more involved in football decisions. The best decision would be to let his HC pick his assistants who will share his beliefs and run things the way he wants them to run.
I don't want Mara to become a meddling owner like Jerry Jones. Shurmur might have a solid relationship with George Edwards and with Edwards' contract expiring at season's end perhaps he could bring Edwards over as his DC.
Wouldnt be the end of the world to me if Spags was retained. Shurmur gives him knew more chance to redeem his career, especially if no other great candidates are available ( which it appears there aren't). Spags blows it this year, and the Giants can fire him.
Belichick has a great quote: "The less versatile you are the better you have to be at what you can do."
I believe in football that quote applies not only to schemes and play calling, but to aspects like roster construction, fluidity to adjust to unplanned personnel changes, etc.
In this aspect Spags has not done well since we first met him in 2007. Injure a key player and the entire thing falls apart.
This for me was what made Patricia attractive. His defenses perform despite injuries, in season trades of top players, and season to session roster turnover.
Way worse things than a DC who has presided over two of the five worst defenses in NFL history and has another 31st ranked defense on his resume from this past season?
Take away the nostalgia from 2007-08 and Spags would (rightfully) be public enemy #1 for most fans.
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There's way worse things to get worked up about.
Way worse things than a DC who has presided over two of the five worst defenses in NFL history and has another 31st ranked defense on his resume from this past season?
Take away the nostalgia from 2007-08 and Spags would (rightfully) be public enemy #1 for most fans.
And he's also presided over three top 10 defenses with the Giants and had the #2 ranked defense as recently as last season. His results have absolutely been erratic, but he isn't a bad coach.
Spags will stay and we will be a 6-10 to 9-7 for the next 5 years.
Shurmer is a average coordinator, you can blame it on talent.
But his successful years were on the coat tails of a strong offensive hc.
Watch McDaniels play calling and watch Shurmer's and tell me who should be the next head coach.
Giants have become overly safe and vanilla.
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In comment 13794658 NyquistX3 said:
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There's way worse things to get worked up about.
Way worse things than a DC who has presided over two of the five worst defenses in NFL history and has another 31st ranked defense on his resume from this past season?
Take away the nostalgia from 2007-08 and Spags would (rightfully) be public enemy #1 for most fans.
And he's also presided over three top 10 defenses with the Giants and had the #2 ranked defense as recently as last season. His results have absolutely been erratic, but he isn't a bad coach.
Three top-10 and #2 last year? Can't have it both ways - it's either three top-10 and #10 last year (total defense - yards), or two top-10 and #2 last year (scoring defense - points).
I still don't see what the benefit is in signing up for that kind of inconsistency when there are better options available. It's nothing more than nostalgia.
On average, his defenses (as DC only), have been #20 in yards and #19 in points. Add in his years as HC with the Rams, and those numbers drop slightly, to #21 in yards and #20 in points.
And that's without considering the dysfunction that existed entirely on his side of the ball this past season, the potential issues with keeping the interim HC on the staff, the career 11-41 record as a HC, the fact that two of his three good seasons came a decade ago while his three worst seasons came in his last four years as a DC. Should I continue?
Spagnuolo seems like a nice enough guy, but his results are really, really mediocre - and that's being kind. Maybe I'm just nostalgic.
Link - ( New Window )
Belichick has a great quote: "The less versatile you are the better you have to be at what you can do."
I believe in football that quote applies not only to schemes and play calling, but to aspects like roster construction, fluidity to adjust to unplanned personnel changes, etc.
In this aspect Spags has not done well since we first met him in 2007. Injure a key player and the entire thing falls apart.
This for me was what made Patricia attractive. His defenses perform despite injuries, in season trades of top players, and season to session roster turnover.
That is a great quote. Thanks. GREAT quote
Snacks. Bj Goodsen. Jenkins became one of best in NFL here.
I'm not sure how I feel about it. I think Spags is a good defensive coach when he has the personnel. This year was surprising in how badly it performed, but I wonder how much of that was dysfunction within the locker room that was simply out of Spags control. A shitty offense is not going to help things either. There is some truth to a "good offense being the best defense".
Is there a better guy out there right now? You could take a chance (and that is what it is) on a guy who has not been a DC and it could work out really well. Or you could stick with a guy who does have experience as a good DC and has been a HC. (Idiots do not become NFL head coaches) Spags staying is certainly not an inspired choice, but it may well be the best choice.