Exactly. How incompetent was McAdoo? He had one of the league's best blocking TE's on a football team that had a poor offensive line. Instead of utilizing Ellison he barely played him.
Shurmur will use him the right way. He's exactly the type of TE who works with the concepts he utilizes.
Ellison was stuck behind Rudolph last year so he didn't get much work as a pass catcher - but Rudolph is more of a traditional TE than Engram, so I don't think Engram will block Ellison the same way here.
Exactly. How incompetent was McAdoo? He had one of the league's best blocking TE's on a football team that had a poor offensive line. Instead of utilizing Ellison he barely played him.
I think it went along with the notion that Engram was a legit TE. He's not. He's a "move TE/H-back" attype. He'll never be a in-line blocker that can handle SSLBs and DEs. Really, I think he'd be best at WR.
The guy has caught 75 passes for his entire career. Last season was his best season catching passes when he caught 1/3 of his career total.
He wasn't "stuck" behind Rudolph. Minnesota was transforming him into a fullback. What does that tell you? Chances are Shurmer does the same thing or cuts him if he can't transition.
The guy has caught 75 passes for his entire career. Last season was his best season catching passes when he caught 1/3 of his career total.
He wasn't "stuck" behind Rudolph. Minnesota was transforming him into a fullback. What does that tell you? Chances are Shurmer does the same thing or cuts him if he can't transition.
Martellus Bennett caught 85 passes total in 60 games before he came here. What's your point?
Minnesota was "transforming" him because Rudolph was a better two-way TE and Shurmur wanted to find a way to utilize him.
No one's dreaming about anything. Most are simply saying McAdoo could have used him more - not that he's the next Rob Gronkowski.
insisted on using 3 wide formations even after we lost all our WRs... and had Ellison sitting on the bench. Ellison could not contribute more than Travis Rudolph?... and if not, why was he on the roster?
He's a "solid" receiver, but he's not a guy you want catching 50+ passes, especially in an offense with Beckham/Engram/Shephard.
But he's absolutely a player that should get 2/3 of the snaps, especially on a team that lacks a legit FB and struggles running the ball. He's excellent at the POA and is an adequate receiver that will often get overlooked (again, especially with Beckham, Engram, and SS also on the field).
RE: RE: Too bad our X coach couldn't figure out how to use him Â
Exactly. How incompetent was McAdoo? He had one of the league's best blocking TE's on a football team that had a poor offensive line. Instead of utilizing Ellison he barely played him.
It took me one game into the 2017 season to realize mcadoo was a disaster. They walked into dallas and just got demolished up front, but Ellison barely played. Week 2 more or the same.
I'm still amazed at how bad a job this guy did. It sickens me to think of what we wasted in 2016. Forget this past season it just wasn't going to happen but things aligned just right in 2016. Wasted opportunity. We had a clown running a team that won 11 games and swept a team that won 13. Imagine what they could have done with an actual HC?
He's a "solid" receiver, but he's not a guy you want catching 50+ passes, especially in an offense with Beckham/Engram/Shephard.
But he's absolutely a player that should get 2/3 of the snaps, especially on a team that lacks a legit FB and struggles running the ball. He's excellent at the POA and is an adequate receiver that will often get overlooked (again, especially with Beckham, Engram, and SS also on the field).
The guy has caught 75 passes for his entire career. Last season was his best season catching passes when he caught 1/3 of his career total.
He wasn't "stuck" behind Rudolph. Minnesota was transforming him into a fullback. What does that tell you? Chances are Shurmer does the same thing or cuts him if he can't transition.
Martellus Bennett caught 85 passes total in 60 games before he came here. What's your point?
Minnesota was "transforming" him because Rudolph was a better two-way TE and Shurmur wanted to find a way to utilize him.
No one's dreaming about anything. Most are simply saying McAdoo could have used him more - not that he's the next Rob Gronkowski.
Bennett was a legit tight end who could run- a 2nd round pick. If you think there is a comparison between Bennett and Ellison as athletes, I can't help you. Ellison is a slug whose highlights in that piece consisted of him blocking, a 15 yard pass when he slipped out uncovered on a play action to the other side and a 15 yard pass when someone screwed up and left him alone. That's called Bear Pascoe. Nobody waxed poetic about the potential and under-utilization of Bear Pascoe. The Vikings easily replaced him with David Morgan from that football factory at Texas San Antonio. Ellison is a role player who was Jerry's bargain basement attempt to address the o-line issues.
My point was don't fall into the trap of thinking mediocrities or role players like Ellison are budding stars because they made a couple of plays on a shitty team. Been there, done that. It was called the 70's. You need to take a very hard-hearted look at the players on a 3-13 team.
One need only look at Howard Cross who started because he was a great blocker and average pass catcher. Thirteen years bookended between Bavaro and Shockey. And you knew in a game if we lost a lineman he could fill in.
One need only look at Howard Cross who started because he was a great blocker and average pass catcher. Thirteen years bookended between Bavaro and Shockey. And you knew in a game if we lost a lineman he could fill in.
The eras are different. Those that are playing TE at a high level in college are playmakers first and barely coached to block. The traditional two-way TE is an endangered species as the game has grown. Blocking is something that has to be taught at the pro level now.
I couldn't disagree with you more -- Rhett Ellison is a solid and legitimate two-way tight end. He is way more of a football player, and much more skilled as a blocker and receiver than Bear Pascoe ever was. He was totally underutilized this past season and it was a disgrace.
or else just stubborn. However, I think he knew his system and that was it. Arron Rogers made it work, Eli, not as well.
You do realize that McAdoo was the TE coach and QB coach and not the offensive coordinator? He had no hand in personal groupings or calling plays etc in Green Bay.
With His 11 personal fetish. What's even sadder was that there were some here who defended him for it did to no FB or blocking TE in year 1nwjen he was in charge. Reese in this case did his job and added a guy who could and help a lot and McAdoo sat him. For the 1000th time WTF did
He do to impress Mara so much? Ellison may not be Some star TE but he
Has a skill set that fit what they needed badly and he was criminally underused.
was he not utilized properly but also all off-season was numerous quotes about how not having a FB the season before really hindered the offense and running game. They bring a couple guys on, cut them and then go into the regular season with NO FB on the roster... what the fuck?
Was a waste from the beginning still don’t see why he got a four year contract at 4 mil a season to be a decent blocker? Prior to all the injuries at WR who were you going to sit so he could play Shepard, Marshall or Engram? Once those guys went down ok great idea let’s add a blocker who brings noting to the passing game since he has snail speed. JR was asleep at the wheel with this signing it made no sense then and it still makes no sense today and tomorrow.
Was a waste from the beginning still don’t see why he got a four year contract at 4 mil a season to be a decent blocker? Prior to all the injuries at WR who were you going to sit so he could play Shepard, Marshall or Engram? Once those guys went down ok great idea let’s add a blocker who brings noting to the passing game since he has snail speed. JR was asleep at the wheel with this signing it made no sense then and it still makes no sense today and tomorrow.
Ellison had the perfect skill set for what they needed, a blocker who could line up at FB and TE.
He was underutilized because Mac insisted on trotting out the same 11 guys every play (something you seemingly support) even when they were getting manhandled up front and could have used him.
Also, 4 million is peanuts in today's NFL.
Some of you get so caught up in the mindset that anything Reese did was bad that your brains shut down.
How Ellison was used last year was one of the most telling indictments against McAdoo. If we weren't completely decimated by WRs, he would have never seen the field. Hell, we were decimated by injuries and he only saw ~30% of the offensive snaps. One of the more versatile blocking TEs in the league with the ability to catch and he's being outsnapped by WRs signed off the street. McAdoo's lack of creativity and rigid adherence to his system drove me nuts. Big upgrade in that department with Shurmur.
How Ellison was used last year was one of the most telling indictments against McAdoo.
For me as well, and Sy's weekly comments in the game reviews just confirmed the reaction was justified.
Honestly, this is one of those hard nosed, 'do your job' and keep your mouth shut players that it's really easy to root for, and that made me despise McAdoo even more, if that's possible.
I couldn't disagree with you more -- Rhett Ellison is a solid and legitimate two-way tight end. He is way more of a football player, and much more skilled as a blocker and receiver than Bear Pascoe ever was. He was totally underutilized this past season and it was a disgrace.
The poor man. He's been "underutilized" his entire 5 year career on two different teams with four different OC's. No one can find a way to utilize this wonderful two way tight end.
He's a role player, not a starter, and you guys are falling into the trap of thinking that a role player on a bad team who caught a few passes in meaningless games at the end of the season is now starting material.
And this is not making excuses for McAdoo, who was a boob as a head coach and made noises about "underutilization" and then quickly joined the club. He coached tight ends and couldn't find any use for the guy.
When a half dozen professionals on two different teams over a five year period are treating a guy like a second banana role player, maybe he's a second banana role player.
has a weird hatred/obsession with Ellison. During the year I would go bananas on why McAdoo wasn't using more TE sets and notably Ellison in the offense more and Homer would go out of his way to knock Ellison's skill set. Pay him no mind on this one.
when Beckham was hurt and Marshall was establishing himself as a warm corpse McAdoo completely IGNORED Ellison. He should have used him all season long let alone week 1 when the WRs were hurt.
McAdoo was so bad it was shocking. He makes Ray Handley look like a decent HC. I wouldn't be shocked to see the Giants win 8 games in their sleep next season. If things go right they will win more than that. Even Spags got this team to play better despite 2/3 of the roster sitting on the shelf.
Its the guys like Ellison who are often over looked. If he was in NE Belichick would know how to use him and he would be catching TD passes in the RED ZONE. Its time to admit Mara made a terrible mistake promoting McAdoo who had no idea how to maximize the use of personnel on his team. He was a BAD Head Coach, and as BAD as it gets. His lack of use of Ellison is just another example of that. And you people want to hang Eli for Mack's stupidity.
I remember form this season, literally not dropping a ball. The rest, drop one a game, including the trash heap of receivers Eli was forced to use after all of the injuries.
Great player or not, was clearly underused by slick back.
was calling for "heavy-handed" football. It was baffling to me how he could call for heavy-handed football yet not utilize a player who was clearly heavy-handed.
I forgave him in 2016 because it was clear that the TE's were as a group not good enough to bump any of the starters at WR. 2017 was a different story, in fact, it was the opposite situation.
Ellison was under-utilized, and I'm looking forward to seeing what we can get out of him in 2018 with Shurmur running the show.
Exactly. How incompetent was McAdoo? He had one of the league's best blocking TE's on a football team that had a poor offensive line. Instead of utilizing Ellison he barely played him.
Ellison was stuck behind Rudolph last year so he didn't get much work as a pass catcher - but Rudolph is more of a traditional TE than Engram, so I don't think Engram will block Ellison the same way here.
And underrated all season long by many on BBI.
Quote:
Awful job there.
Exactly. How incompetent was McAdoo? He had one of the league's best blocking TE's on a football team that had a poor offensive line. Instead of utilizing Ellison he barely played him.
I think it went along with the notion that Engram was a legit TE. He's not. He's a "move TE/H-back" attype. He'll never be a in-line blocker that can handle SSLBs and DEs. Really, I think he'd be best at WR.
He wasn't "stuck" behind Rudolph. Minnesota was transforming him into a fullback. What does that tell you? Chances are Shurmer does the same thing or cuts him if he can't transition.
He wasn't "stuck" behind Rudolph. Minnesota was transforming him into a fullback. What does that tell you? Chances are Shurmer does the same thing or cuts him if he can't transition.
Martellus Bennett caught 85 passes total in 60 games before he came here. What's your point?
Minnesota was "transforming" him because Rudolph was a better two-way TE and Shurmur wanted to find a way to utilize him.
No one's dreaming about anything. Most are simply saying McAdoo could have used him more - not that he's the next Rob Gronkowski.
McAdoo was an awful coach.
But he's absolutely a player that should get 2/3 of the snaps, especially on a team that lacks a legit FB and struggles running the ball. He's excellent at the POA and is an adequate receiver that will often get overlooked (again, especially with Beckham, Engram, and SS also on the field).
Quote:
Awful job there.
Exactly. How incompetent was McAdoo? He had one of the league's best blocking TE's on a football team that had a poor offensive line. Instead of utilizing Ellison he barely played him.
It took me one game into the 2017 season to realize mcadoo was a disaster. They walked into dallas and just got demolished up front, but Ellison barely played. Week 2 more or the same.
I'm still amazed at how bad a job this guy did. It sickens me to think of what we wasted in 2016. Forget this past season it just wasn't going to happen but things aligned just right in 2016. Wasted opportunity. We had a clown running a team that won 11 games and swept a team that won 13. Imagine what they could have done with an actual HC?
But he's absolutely a player that should get 2/3 of the snaps, especially on a team that lacks a legit FB and struggles running the ball. He's excellent at the POA and is an adequate receiver that will often get overlooked (again, especially with Beckham, Engram, and SS also on the field).
I agree. He was an excellent signing by Reese.
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The guy has caught 75 passes for his entire career. Last season was his best season catching passes when he caught 1/3 of his career total.
He wasn't "stuck" behind Rudolph. Minnesota was transforming him into a fullback. What does that tell you? Chances are Shurmer does the same thing or cuts him if he can't transition.
Martellus Bennett caught 85 passes total in 60 games before he came here. What's your point?
Minnesota was "transforming" him because Rudolph was a better two-way TE and Shurmur wanted to find a way to utilize him.
No one's dreaming about anything. Most are simply saying McAdoo could have used him more - not that he's the next Rob Gronkowski.
My point was don't fall into the trap of thinking mediocrities or role players like Ellison are budding stars because they made a couple of plays on a shitty team. Been there, done that. It was called the 70's. You need to take a very hard-hearted look at the players on a 3-13 team.
You're literally arguing against no one.
You're literally arguing against no one.
That's what he does.
The eras are different. Those that are playing TE at a high level in college are playmakers first and barely coached to block. The traditional two-way TE is an endangered species as the game has grown. Blocking is something that has to be taught at the pro level now.
You do realize that McAdoo was the TE coach and QB coach and not the offensive coordinator? He had no hand in personal groupings or calling plays etc in Green Bay.
He do to impress Mara so much? Ellison may not be Some star TE but he
Has a skill set that fit what they needed badly and he was criminally underused.
Ellison had the perfect skill set for what they needed, a blocker who could line up at FB and TE.
He was underutilized because Mac insisted on trotting out the same 11 guys every play (something you seemingly support) even when they were getting manhandled up front and could have used him.
Also, 4 million is peanuts in today's NFL.
Some of you get so caught up in the mindset that anything Reese did was bad that your brains shut down.
For me as well, and Sy's weekly comments in the game reviews just confirmed the reaction was justified.
Honestly, this is one of those hard nosed, 'do your job' and keep your mouth shut players that it's really easy to root for, and that made me despise McAdoo even more, if that's possible.
Link - ( New Window )
Its really alarming how much he was in over his head, and how the Giants didn't see it coming.
He's a role player, not a starter, and you guys are falling into the trap of thinking that a role player on a bad team who caught a few passes in meaningless games at the end of the season is now starting material.
And this is not making excuses for McAdoo, who was a boob as a head coach and made noises about "underutilization" and then quickly joined the club. He coached tight ends and couldn't find any use for the guy.
When a half dozen professionals on two different teams over a five year period are treating a guy like a second banana role player, maybe he's a second banana role player.
McAdoo was so bad it was shocking. He makes Ray Handley look like a decent HC. I wouldn't be shocked to see the Giants win 8 games in their sleep next season. If things go right they will win more than that. Even Spags got this team to play better despite 2/3 of the roster sitting on the shelf.
Ellison will be a good player here.
Great player or not, was clearly underused by slick back.
I forgave him in 2016 because it was clear that the TE's were as a group not good enough to bump any of the starters at WR. 2017 was a different story, in fact, it was the opposite situation.
Ellison was under-utilized, and I'm looking forward to seeing what we can get out of him in 2018 with Shurmur running the show.