Appologize if posted, but here is Scott Wright of NFL Draft Countdown's Mock Draft.
He actually has Rosen going #6...
I like Scott, he's pretty credible and he usually puts out a good product. The website has had less content over the years but I still enjoy his work.
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Webb is a virtual unknown and you guys are cavalierly ready to risk the next 10 years of the team on a hunch.
You can't run a franchise like that.
But Eli's fading fast. And we have no idea what they have in Webb.
And NO clue in what we will have in an OL which will A) need to pop holes for Barkley, and B) hold D long enough so the QB can get a pass to either, et al(as much as we have expectations, you need right players, right
OL coach, right scheme)
When was the last time QB from OlE Miss was any good? Or NC State or Miami of Ohio? (Russell Wilson has an asterisk).
I'll take the RB. A trade down would be nice but the Browns might take him. Otherwise, I can see the Browns(4th pick) or Colts trading out for the eventual QB love that happens every year. Or even the Giants but that's a gamble because a stud RB became obvious as to how over rated Prescott was. Another thread was discussing coaching leashes and I guess Garrett is the perfect puppet because on paper, the Cowboys have had a very competitive team over the years. No Elliot and they were very beatable. Waste of a very good Oline.
This is the first year in recent memory that I don't like any of the QB's. I'm 50/50 like the rest of the world but this is red flag hell.
Rosen looks like a better Bradford or dare I say Bert Jones. Both those guys never got the success of their talent because of injuries.
I can't see the Giants drafting an injury prone QB after having one of the greatest Ironman in history. Makes no sense. I also agree that 2 developmnt QB's makes no sense. Nothing wrong with wasting a 3rd rounder but you better be right with the 2nd pick and it's a risky bunch.
PS To compare Mayfied to Favre is ludicrous. Pre draft smoke. Favre was supposed to get picked by the Jets but they opened their mouth and got bumped by Atlanta and ended up with Nagle. Favre was allegedly the top guy on their board. When Wolf went to GB, the first thing he did was trade for Favre. Miller was playing great and Favre was a problem child. But Mayfield does not have the same arm. Not too many people do.
Rosen has already shown that he has the physical talent to do everything required of an NFL QB and do it at a high level. He has proven he has the talent, work ethic, and intelligence to take what he learns from coaching and translate it onto the football field. None of the other QBs in the draft can make that claim.
Peyton, Eli, Rodgers, Favre, Rivers, Roethlisberger, Romo, Wilson, and going back to Marino, Bradshaw, Namath, Tarkenton, etc...the variety of personality types among highly successful QBs in the NFL runs the complete gamut and shows that personality has nothing to do with it. It's all about talent, work ethic, and intelligence. Jay Cutler and Jeff George failed to achieve greatness because they were lacking in one or more of those three categories and not because they weren't the most popular guy in the locker room.
Barkley is a RB, no more or less likely to succeed at the NFL level than any other RB taken in the first five picks (where the track record for RBs is pretty piss poor...and I'm not just talking about the ones from Penn State). All picks are a gamble, no matter the position, no matter the accolades and assurances from the scouting communit; but how many RBs have led their team to a Super Bowl compared to QBs?
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if Reese and Mac (who apparently wanted Webb even higher in the draft) were actually right about Webb and gave the Giants their next QB on their way out the door.
It's VERY possible....people say he has this flaw and that flaw....fact is he could turn out to be very good...
I say roll with him another year...
You can always do what eagles did and move up in 2019-2020
Few draft gurus rated Webb very high, including "our" Sy who described Webb as a career backup/clipboard holder. And then the NFL Draft confirmed this when all teams passed on Webb at least twice.
Could Webb turn out to be a starter? I guess they could fix some of his flaws and get him on the field. But the odds that he'll be a GREAT QB are slim. The odds that Rosen or Darnold will be great, while certainly not guaranteed, are far greater.
As far as your statement that "You can always do what eagles did and move up in 2019-2020" which I'm sure you meant to trade up to grab a top QB...NO you absolutely can NOT always do that. To pull that off you need 4 things:
1. A stud QB being available.
2. A team like the Browns stupid enough to trade out of the position.
3. A shitty enough record to be in striking distance to trade up.
4. A trade package of picks/players better than every other team that wants to trade up for the stud QB.
The Eagles trade up with the Browns for a QB the caliber of Wentz was a rarity. It's not something you can ALWAYS do.
Where did you "hear" that the Giants "love" Webb and in what context was this love professed?
Was it a puff piece done by a beat writer talking about how the Giants loved Webb's work ethic? That sounds plausible. But I've not heard (or read) anything about the Giants loving Webb as in, they think he's going to be a great QB and they're not even thinking about drafting a QB in RD 1.
And if Eric or some asshat had heard that the Giants "love" Webb, don't you think they would have mentioned it by now?
You can't be correct though, because it would mean that those BBI'ers who absolutely insist the Giants are taking a QB at #2 - as if they have any clue at all - would be wrong. Their narrative would be blown to pieces. They would have to stop beating the drum. Their world would crumble to pieces.
Please, afann. Say it ain't so.
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Just what I heard from people I know. Take it for what it is.
You can't be correct though, because it would mean that those BBI'ers who absolutely insist the Giants are taking a QB at #2 - as if they have any clue at all - would be wrong. Their narrative would be blown to pieces. They would have to stop beating the drum. Their world would crumble to pieces.
Please, afann. Say it ain't so.
I think I'll bump this thread after the Giants take a QB.
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In comment 13794882 afann said:
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Just what I heard from people I know. Take it for what it is.
You can't be correct though, because it would mean that those BBI'ers who absolutely insist the Giants are taking a QB at #2 - as if they have any clue at all - would be wrong. Their narrative would be blown to pieces. They would have to stop beating the drum. Their world would crumble to pieces.
Please, afann. Say it ain't so.
I think I'll bump this thread after the Giants take a QB.
You can bump it all you want. Won't make a difference to me. I'm not the one speaking in absolutes.
The other scenario that will spin things is by the time we get through the combine-Allen may be the top guy who has the least red flags with everyone comparing him to the next Wentz. He may be the Browns top pick, leaving the Giants: Darnold, Rosen or Barkley from which to choose.
How could this possibly be true? What people?
We fired the guy who scouted him. We fired the guy who drafted him. We fired the guy who coached him. In fact every guy who coached him is gone.
What people love Webb?
When people say the Giants love Webb, id love to know what people they are talking about
Having a young QB for a year in your organization, knowing his character, work ethic, ability, health, strengths and weaknesses, who is learning from your Super Bowl vet QB
Or
Drafting another QB that you would have to take chance on and invest a valuable high draft pick, one who is a sophomore and one who has concussion issues. Not denying either talent. Also, add to this that there are 2 players better than these QB's that can really help the Giants in Barkley and Nelson. Both players would step in day 1 and start, and dominate.
But Eli's fading fast. And we have no idea what they have in Webb.
You are 100% right. This is an absolute incredible choice
To me, we have the best QB prospect since Luck there at 2 for us. Rosen has it
But, we also have the best RB prospect i may have ever seen. This guys as talented as any player ive seen coming out. Wow.
Love him so much he dressed for only one game and didn't take a snap.
In case everyone forgot, Linbacker was the one position where the Giants sere loaded in 1981. Thankfully it didn't stop them from taking Lawrence Taylor at #2. Or Byron Hunt in Round 9
Everything that you do know has come entirely from the media, who has no idea what he is or isn't either. The only people that have any clue at all about what kind of player Webb is and how well he has developed this year are the ones that actually worked with him every day.
I know this concept is hard for some to grasp, but it really is ok to just...not have an opinion on something. You don't always have to pick a side and dig your heel in - especially regarding something you have no insight into.
Having a young QB for a year in your organization, knowing his character, work ethic, ability, health, strengths and weaknesses, who is learning from your Super Bowl vet QB
Or
Drafting another QB that you would have to take chance on and invest a valuable high draft pick, one who is a sophomore and one who has concussion issues. Not denying either talent. Also, add to this that there are 2 players better than these QB's that can really help the Giants in Barkley and Nelson. Both players would step in day 1 and start, and dominate.
Everything that you do know has come entirely from the media, who has no idea what he is or isn't either. The only people that have any clue at all about what kind of player Webb is and how well he has developed this year are the ones that actually worked with him every day.
I know this concept is hard for some to grasp, but it really is ok to just...not have an opinion on something. You don't always have to pick a side and dig your heel in - especially regarding something you have no insight into.
And those people decided he wasn't advanced enough to even be named #2 and get practice reps until the season was over.
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no one on this site should pretend like they know anything about what he is or is not.
Everything that you do know has come entirely from the media, who has no idea what he is or isn't either. The only people that have any clue at all about what kind of player Webb is and how well he has developed this year are the ones that actually worked with him every day.
I know this concept is hard for some to grasp, but it really is ok to just...not have an opinion on something. You don't always have to pick a side and dig your heel in - especially regarding something you have no insight into.
And those people decided he wasn't advanced enough to even be named #2 and get practice reps until the season was over.
...and not one person on this site knows definitively that the reason behind this is that “he wasn’t advanced enough “.
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In comment 13794923 Brown Recluse said:
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no one on this site should pretend like they know anything about what he is or is not.
Everything that you do know has come entirely from the media, who has no idea what he is or isn't either. The only people that have any clue at all about what kind of player Webb is and how well he has developed this year are the ones that actually worked with him every day.
I know this concept is hard for some to grasp, but it really is ok to just...not have an opinion on something. You don't always have to pick a side and dig your heel in - especially regarding something you have no insight into.
And those people decided he wasn't advanced enough to even be named #2 and get practice reps until the season was over.
...and not one person on this site knows definitively that the reason behind this is that “he wasn’t advanced enough “.
What else could it be? That Geno Smith wa sbeing groomed? Please. Webb is a project.
Doing do is also acknowledging they're going for it while Eli is fading, a big gamble passing on QB with a #2 overall pick.
But Eli's fading fast. And we have no idea what they have in Webb.
Couldn't agree more. This is very similar to 2004 when Robert Gallery and Sean Taylor were options at #4. You HAVE to take one of the QB's up top. These chances are few and far between.
But Eli's fading fast. And we have no idea what they have in Webb.
Best comp for a Beckham/Barkley/Engram trio would be KC (Hill/Kelce/Hunt). KC was 5th in yards/game and 6th in scoring this season with Alex Smith at QB.
In other words, if they draft Barkley and get the OL up to a "respectable" level, they would have the offensive talent to be a top 10 offense with merely an average QB (i.e. Alex Smith). And you could argue Beckham/Engram/Barkley (+SS) are potentially much better than the KC trio.
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said the Giants passing on a QB would be very risky because you don't get many chances to take one this high. But if you put Barkley with Odell and a good QB, wow.
But Eli's fading fast. And we have no idea what they have in Webb.
Couldn't agree more. This is very similar to 2004 when Robert Gallery and Sean Taylor were options at #4. You HAVE to take one of the QB's up top. These chances are few and far between.
Pick the QB if they believe one of them is the future. Don't force the pick, with Eli fading there's a chance they wind up picking high again before long.
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no one on this site should pretend like they know anything about what he is or is not.
Everything that you do know has come entirely from the media, who has no idea what he is or isn't either. The only people that have any clue at all about what kind of player Webb is and how well he has developed this year are the ones that actually worked with him every day.
I know this concept is hard for some to grasp, but it really is ok to just...not have an opinion on something. You don't always have to pick a side and dig your heel in - especially regarding something you have no insight into.
And those people decided he wasn't advanced enough to even be named #2 and get practice reps until the season was over.
Ok, and how do you know that's the reason why he didn't get practice reps? Did Gary Myers tell you that? Again, no one knows anything so stop acting like you do just because you read it in an article.
DG's comments allude to the possibility of three QBs on the roster not being too much of a good thing, in terms of stacking talent when the opportunity presents itself.
Reality is Webb has about a 25% chance historically of being an NFL QB. Banking on him right now seems awfully short-sighted and risky. I do think they'd lean to Barkley if they don't love a QB, unless Connor Williams has an outstanding scouting season.
I'm not seeing the type of athlete in Chubb NYG tends to look for at DE, and the other OL or Fitzpatrick could be there in tradedown scenrios, imv.
Still early too, a lot could change.
What happens if you take Barkley, Eli is done and Webb isn't very good? Then where are you getting your quarterback?
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In comment 13794923 Brown Recluse said:
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no one on this site should pretend like they know anything about what he is or is not.
Everything that you do know has come entirely from the media, who has no idea what he is or isn't either. The only people that have any clue at all about what kind of player Webb is and how well he has developed this year are the ones that actually worked with him every day.
I know this concept is hard for some to grasp, but it really is ok to just...not have an opinion on something. You don't always have to pick a side and dig your heel in - especially regarding something you have no insight into.
And those people decided he wasn't advanced enough to even be named #2 and get practice reps until the season was over.
Ok, and how do you know that's the reason why he didn't get practice reps? Did Gary Myers tell you that? Again, no one knows anything so stop acting like you do just because you read it in an article.
no obnoxious asshole, the fact that he never saw the field even in practice did.
For a more detailed explanation of "project" and Webb's impact on their thinking, I suggest you read JonC's last post, and Sy56 2017 QB draft preview if you are able.
What happens if you take Barkley, Eli is done and Webb isn't very good? Then where are you getting your quarterback?
That is the dilemma, but if they don't believe in one of the QB prospects they've got to look at another blue chip position of impact in a draft where there might not be a player at OT, DE, WR etc who will grade higher than Barkley. Thus, the tradedown option if they prefer a tackle, etc.
no obnoxious asshole, the fact that he never saw the field even in practice did.
For a more detailed explanation of "project" and Webb's impact on their thinking, I suggest you read JonC's last post, and Sy56 2017 QB draft preview if you are able.
I'm not trying to make a case for Webb. You stated in absolute terms that the reason Webb did not see practice reps was because he did not develop enough throughout the season and insinuated that afann's information must be wrong. While that is entirely possible, you're just parroting what you've read from other people who weren't actually there either. You don't really know what sort of development Webb did or didn't make as the season went on. And using the coach's decision not to dress him as a barometer is ridiculous considering the fact that the coach proved himself to be entirely incapable of personnel management and evaluation. Part of the reason he was fired.
Again, no one knows what Webb is or isn't right now.
Who do you mean by "The Giants"? The HC, OC, QB coach, GM and VP of player evaluation are all gone. Who cares what they thought? The new crew needs to do a fresh evaluation and compare him to this year's crop.
But Eli's fading fast. And we have no idea what they have in Webb.
That's why I would rather go RB .... With him and OBJ the QB just has to be good not great. With the gluttony of QBs in Minny they have to give up 1. Bradford is good just hurt all the time, Bridgewater IS good and had potential to be great .... but the knee. Shurmur would be in the know about his knee and the expectations for healing. Keenum is a good game manager it seems. Webb is the unknown...but with Shurmur being the QB whisper supposedly who knows.
With Barkely, OBJ, EE and Shep I'd be ok with a good QB vs a Great QB. This is assuming we get the OL, because without an OL nothing will matter in the end.
And get Lamar Jackson at 21? Oh shit.
Not likely Jackson lasts that long, but the Giants could still go QB, or in any other direction they felt got the most value at that pick.
I would like to see the Giants trade back for once and be one of those teams that has 2 first round picks. They need players.
"This will be the highest RB grade I have ever done and the 3rd highest overall grade I have ever done"......and to the point about the franchise putting their eggs in the Webb basket by not drafting a QB simply not true.. the franchise would be putting their eggs in the Webb AND Barkley basket huge difference.....Barkley is a game changer that will make a mediocre QB better and whos to say the "Franchise" QB needs to be decided on this year......
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who?
Let me ask this question in another way. The Last outstanding RB from Penn State who did not suffer a career ending injury in his first two seasons was:
I don’t know, I’m old and can’t remember back that far.
I hate this argument...I think it's dumb as hell....
When was the last good UCLA QB?
How about USC?
Wyoming? See where I'm going with this...it's a dumb argument.
Can you imagine if businesses applied this same logic when hiring?
"Thank you for your time. Your resume is outstanding and ordinarily we feel like you'd be a great fit for the position, but we haven't had a Michigan grad do well at that job since before I can even remember."