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Giant Dilemma in Upcoming Draft...

M.S. : 1/18/2018 10:21 am
...I'm hoping this Draft will solve our long-term QB issue, or solve our long-term offensive line issue. But can we accomplish both in this Draft?

That would mean finding a gem in one of about five/six QB prospects (Round One), as well as two immediate starters for the offensive line (Round Two and -- most likely -- Round Three.)

Can it be done... and if so, what would raise our odds of accomplishing both:

(1) Stay put at #2 and then just stay put in Round Two (#34) and Three (#66)?

(2) Or, trade back no more than two or three slots in Round One and pick up extra picks in Round Two (and some other Round)?

(3) Something else?

Interested in your thoughts on what Draft Day tactics you would employ to increase our odds of securing both a future QB and O-line.

Thanks in advance.
O-line will be addressed in free agency as well...  
Torrag : 1/18/2018 10:22 am : link
...bet on it.
I don't think there is a high likelihood  
Mike from Ohio : 1/18/2018 10:24 am : link
that the Giants will take O linemen in rounds 2 and 3. Maybe one or the other, but not both. Free agency will probably (hopefully) address at least one or two spots.
How to improve the line  
Jay on the Island : 1/18/2018 10:44 am : link
I don't know if it is possible to completely fix it in one off-season. Start by letting Pugh walk in FA and cut Jerry. Re-sign Fluker to a 1-2 year deal and Richburg to a 1 year prove it deal. Sign Norwell in FA, draft Isaiah Wynn in the 3rd round. Move Flowers to RT. They need to sign a veteran to compete with Wheeler at LT and use a mid round pick on a developmental OT. Now I know people hate the word developmental tackle as it never worked under Reese but he is gone and Gettleman had a very strong history finding linemen in Carolina.
And don't forget, the Giants should soon have a competent  
mikeinbloomfield : 1/18/2018 10:47 am : link
offensive system in place this year, which will help a lot. The OL needs some new players, but remember Brian Baldinger's analysis of McAdoo's terrible protection schemes.
If Eli.....  
Blue Angel : 1/18/2018 10:53 am : link
Would have not been so arrogant and proud and let the Giants play Webb we might not have half the problem we now face!!
If the Giants don't have the resources to fix all of their weaknesses,  
Ira : 1/18/2018 10:59 am : link
I'd like to see them prioritize the running game. This means getting a top running back and improving the o-line.
I like the idea of a trade back  
dancing blue bear : 1/18/2018 10:59 am : link
and getting extra picks to rebuild the whole team.

What about finding another QB prospect in rounds 2 or 3, though? I like the idea of creating competition and adding another lotto ticket to the future QB options.

I know there are many that think that "franchise QBs"are only found at the very top of the draft, but I personally feel they can be found anywhere and built by good coaching. I think the likelyhood of success is more tied to surrounding cast (ie. being on a solid team and prepared to succeed).

I also think "tools" are over-rated and mental make-up, work ethic, temperment, leadership are far more important to be a long term solution.

Bortles/ Keenum/ Foles. One of those guys is playing in the superbowl this year. maybe 2.


I am not strictly against a QB, but I am against the "you HAVE to take a QB" The implication (to me) is that it doesn't matter which, you just have to take one.

I like Darnold, and think he has a shot, but truthfully he should have stayed in school. He will not be ready to play for at least a year. He will be an easy QB to 'ruin" because he is going to be drafted so high (and most likely by the browns). The rest of the QBs I don't think much of. Good prospects, but will be overdrafted by a long shot.
How many threads a day  
djstat : 1/18/2018 11:01 am : link
Are needed discussing the draft/QB situation. I personally think none of these QBs are franchise QBs and would go Barkley. Beef up my o line in free agency along with Linebackers...then let the team use Eli Apple as a tackling dummy in training camp and BOOM. Super Bowl Bound
It just feels those who want to trade back or take a qb some other  
NYSports1 : 1/18/2018 11:12 am : link
year or in later rounds are just afraid of Eli retiring or leaving. No sane GM is going to pass up on a potential franchise qb to cater to an old statue of a qb....He did wonderful things for us a long time ago but his time has ended with the Giants. The Giants should turn the page now and start building their team like they did when they drafted Eli.

RE: If Eli.....  
lax counsel : 1/18/2018 11:14 am : link
In comment 13795134 Blue Angel said:
Quote:
Would have not been so arrogant and proud and let the Giants play Webb we might not have half the problem we now face!!


Does anyone really believe this was the case? Let me ask everyone a very practical question. Mcadoo and Reese were the dynamic duo that produced a Webb pick. They know around game 5 that the season was over and if they finished with a horrific record (which they did) that each was likely gone.

If they truly thought that Webb could even flash the ability of a franchise qb, wouldn't they have thrown him out there? If he could do anything to make an offense better that had been so bad all year, why wouldn't they roll the dice? They could both hang their hats on the fact they found the Giants next legit franchise qb and possibly save each of their jobs. Why wouldn't they do that, why would they turn to Geno instead?

I think the most likely case scenario is that both realized early on the Webb didn't have "it", and didn't want to exacerbate an already bad situation by exposing another wasted third round pick on a guy who couldn't really play.
It is almost..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/18/2018 11:20 am : link
like we have several posters who are simply trolls as they only seem to comment on one thing and they do it with a consistently shitty take:

Quote:
If Eli.....
Blue Angel : 10:53 am : link : reply
Would have not been so arrogant and proud and let the Giants play Webb we might not have half the problem we now face!!


Exactly how in the fuck did Eli stop Webb from getting reps??

You know who did stop Webb from getting reps? McAdoo, who kept him as a useless bystander the entire year.

It is why, when Eli was benched, that Geno had to play and not Webb.

What fucking team are you following?
I think we'll have 2 new tackles  
NYG007 : 1/18/2018 11:32 am : link
and at least one Guard well before the draft. We'll draft OL as well, but they'll be competing for backups.

Giants are not going OL at #2 - I would be insanely shocked. Though its a need
Trade Back  
Bruner4329 : 1/18/2018 11:44 am : link
People are consumated with reading about all the hype these QBs have received but there is not one that is ready to step in and play next year. Rosen is an accident waiting to happen and Darnold should have stayed at USC another year. He is a redshirt junior and has only played 2 seasons in College. No where near ready and his performance shows it. Plus even of you draft one of them they won't be playing in 2018 so you still need a starting QB.
RE: It is almost..  
jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 1/18/2018 11:48 am : link
In comment 13795186 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
like we have several posters who are simply trolls as they only seem to comment on one thing and they do it with a consistently shitty take:



Quote:


If Eli.....
Blue Angel : 10:53 am : link : reply
Would have not been so arrogant and proud and let the Giants play Webb we might not have half the problem we now face!!

+1

Exactly how in the fuck did Eli stop Webb from getting reps??

You know who did stop Webb from getting reps? McAdoo, who kept him as a useless bystander the entire year.

It is why, when Eli was benched, that Geno had to play and not Webb.

What fucking team are you following?
RE: RE: It is almost..  
jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 1/18/2018 11:50 am : link
In comment 13795227 jeffusedtobeonwebtv said:
Quote:
In comment 13795186 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


like we have several posters who are simply trolls as they only seem to comment on one thing and they do it with a consistently shitty take:



Quote:


If Eli.....
Blue Angel : 10:53 am : link : reply
Would have not been so arrogant and proud and let the Giants play Webb we might not have half the problem we now face!!

+1

Exactly how in the fuck did Eli stop Webb from getting reps??

You know who did stop Webb from getting reps? McAdoo, who kept him as a useless bystander the entire year.

It is why, when Eli was benched, that Geno had to play and not Webb.

What fucking team are you following?



OOPs, I meant the +1to be after what Blue Angel wrote.
Acquiring both QB and OL  
Peppers : 1/18/2018 12:05 pm : link
The goal first a foremost should be to find the future at QB. How they grade these guys is anyones guess.. To get an idea you have to look at the system. Quick release accurate QBs are built for it so I think Rosen is going to be their top guy, I think he is anyway. Then based on Gettlemans draft history he likes to move around, I could see him moving back into the first with that 2nd round pick to get an OT. Then invest another pick later in the draft on an interior OL.

Norwell should definitely be the top target for us in free agency.
I believe it will all center on how the Giants feel  
Section331 : 1/18/2018 12:11 pm : link
about the current QB situation, and wha they think of the QB’s in the draft. If they feel they need to get a QB, and also feel that one of them is the right guy, then use the 2nd pick and don’t look back. If not, trade down. There will be PLENTY of suitors for that pick.
Draft  
Archer : 1/18/2018 1:02 pm : link
I prefer picking the best player available at (2)

But , I would not mind either trading forward or back with the second pick.

The second round pick will likely be coveted by some team that sees a player that they like falling out of the first round to this pick.
The pick should bring back a 2nd and 3rd.

RE: I don't think there is a high likelihood  
WillVAB : 1/18/2018 1:26 pm : link
In comment 13795080 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
that the Giants will take O linemen in rounds 2 and 3. Maybe one or the other, but not both. Free agency will probably (hopefully) address at least one or two spots.


Then the OL will not be fixed.

The Giants will have to give big deals to whomever they sign in FA. It’s going to be hard if not impossible to pay say Norwell and Solder and still have the money for guys like Collins and OBJ. So let’s say they land Norwell.

After the QB in round 1, let’s say they go BBI favorite Price in round 2. Center and LG are now covered.

If they pass on OL in round 3, they’re gonna have to hope someone like Braden Smith lasts until the top of round 4.

The ‘18 OL would have to go Wheeler-Norwell-Price-Smith-Flowers or something like that. Then you’d have to replace Flowers and maybe Wheeler if Wheeler doesn’t pan out.

Probably better than ‘17 but certainly not fixed.
Gettleman drafted two DTs 1st and 2nd while in CAorlina  
adamg : 1/18/2018 1:27 pm : link
So if they go QB in 1 it wouldn't be out of the norm for them to go OL back to back in 2 and 3.

That would be awesome if they do that and still land a LB and RB as well.
RE: RE: I don't think there is a high likelihood  
adamg : 1/18/2018 1:29 pm : link
In comment 13795399 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 13795080 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


that the Giants will take O linemen in rounds 2 and 3. Maybe one or the other, but not both. Free agency will probably (hopefully) address at least one or two spots.



Then the OL will not be fixed.

The Giants will have to give big deals to whomever they sign in FA. It’s going to be hard if not impossible to pay say Norwell and Solder and still have the money for guys like Collins and OBJ. So let’s say they land Norwell.

After the QB in round 1, let’s say they go BBI favorite Price in round 2. Center and LG are now covered.

If they pass on OL in round 3, they’re gonna have to hope someone like Braden Smith lasts until the top of round 4.

The ‘18 OL would have to go Wheeler-Norwell-Price-Smith-Flowers or something like that. Then you’d have to replace Flowers and maybe Wheeler if Wheeler doesn’t pan out.

Probably better than ‘17 but certainly not fixed.


I have a feeling at least two FA OL are going to be starting on the team next year. It'd be nice to land Price and Smith, but I doubt we go into the draft needing to land any starters. I expect we'll sign 3 more OL, two of which will be expected to start and one will be able to start in a doomsday draft scenario.

If they can land Solder and Norwell, I hope they do.
I am to the point of it being  
chopperhatch : 1/18/2018 1:34 pm : link
if Darnold isnt there:

1) trade back, grab Mayfield and another 2nd...maybe 2. We can really get Denver and the Jets in a bidding war for that pick.

2) trade back AGAIN and take Lamar Jackson.

I am getting more and more intrigued with Jackson. Randall Cunningham pt. 2 and him buying time for Odell and Engram could be frighteningly good. One year under Eli and then uncage the beast.
RE: RE: RE: I don't think there is a high likelihood  
WillVAB : 1/18/2018 1:48 pm : link
In comment 13795404 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 13795399 WillVAB said:


Quote:


In comment 13795080 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


that the Giants will take O linemen in rounds 2 and 3. Maybe one or the other, but not both. Free agency will probably (hopefully) address at least one or two spots.



Then the OL will not be fixed.

The Giants will have to give big deals to whomever they sign in FA. It’s going to be hard if not impossible to pay say Norwell and Solder and still have the money for guys like Collins and OBJ. So let’s say they land Norwell.

After the QB in round 1, let’s say they go BBI favorite Price in round 2. Center and LG are now covered.

If they pass on OL in round 3, they’re gonna have to hope someone like Braden Smith lasts until the top of round 4.

The ‘18 OL would have to go Wheeler-Norwell-Price-Smith-Flowers or something like that. Then you’d have to replace Flowers and maybe Wheeler if Wheeler doesn’t pan out.

Probably better than ‘17 but certainly not fixed.



I have a feeling at least two FA OL are going to be starting on the team next year. It'd be nice to land Price and Smith, but I doubt we go into the draft needing to land any starters. I expect we'll sign 3 more OL, two of which will be expected to start and one will be able to start in a doomsday draft scenario.

If they can land Solder and Norwell, I hope they do.


If the Giants go into the draft not needing starters at OL, they either overpaid for 4 new guys or they’re rolling the dice on 2-3 guys already on the roster plus 2-3 FAs. Neither situation inspires confidence in the OL being fixed and I’d rather keep OBJ/Collins vs overpaying for OL help. If they don’t overpay, it’s the dumpster diving method and we’ve seen how that has worked out.

It’s going to take a tremendous leap of faith to expect the Giants to fix the OL in one off-season while taking a QB at 2.
The Giants SB teams had undrafted street FA and low round  
baadbill : 1/18/2018 2:34 pm : link
draft picks as starters on their OLines and that's probably a key to success
Draft  
Giantslifer : 1/18/2018 2:50 pm : link
Eli will be with Giants for at least 2 years, unless someone wants to give up 1st rd pick minimum.
Start Webb in all pre season games to see if he has the ability. He will then be mentored by Eli.
Trade down to get as many OL/DL/LB the next 2 years. If Webb is the guy- problem solved. If not Giants will have upgraded OL/DL/LB enough to carry old Eli or other journeyman QB/drafted replacement.
It is more important to upgrade interior positions than draft a QB that is gonna sit for 2 years anyway. Also may not be better than Webb.

RE: If Eli.....  
NikkiMac : 1/18/2018 6:42 pm : link
In comment 13795134 Blue Angel said:
Quote:
Would have not been so arrogant and proud and let the Giants play Webb we might not have half the problem we now face!!



If Macadoo would have just had the balls to tell Eli “ Eli we are sitting you down this week we want to get a look at the kid” instead he chooses Geno Smith to start that’s where it went wrong.that would have been a lot cooler with the fans and the rabid press.
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