so that Shurmur can start assembling his staff. I mainly want to see the Eagles get crushed and the Vikings to make it to the SB against Jacksonville. If Shurmur is still playing and Belichick's season is over we will finally see if there was any truth to the rumors of Belichick wanting to return here.
Multiple NFL reporters have said his staff is already in place and it was before he was the favorite to be the Giants next HC.
will be back next year. I'm not thrilled with that, but give him enough talent and Spags will do a good job.
Why? No HC has been hired yet. Stop assuming...you make an ass out of yourself when you do
Hey, Felix, cut that out...I'm a sensitive man whose feelings are easily hurt.
So, why am I making this assumption?
Because none of our long time defensive coaches have even gone for an interview elsewhere. These are respected guys (Spags, Merritt, Walton) who would certainly receive interest around the league, and would also be scrambling for new jobs if they didn't know that they were being retained.
The fact that all of our offensive assistants have gotten new jobs and none of our defensive assistants have even gone for interviews implies to me that the defensive guys are returning to the Giants.
Yat, I share that opinion but the obvious problem with that line of thinking is how did a signal go out to the O staff to look for new jobs while asking the D to stay put - before a HC was selected; e.g. Patricia may have wanted his own staff.
The tinfoil hat answer is that the "fix was in" for Shurmur from the start. :)
so that Shurmur can start assembling his staff. I mainly want to see the Eagles get crushed and the Vikings to make it to the SB against Jacksonville. If Shurmur is still playing and Belichick's season is over we will finally see if there was any truth to the rumors of Belichick wanting to return here.
Multiple NFL reporters have said his staff is already in place and it was before he was the favorite to be the Giants next HC.
So who is to say Spags wasn't the guy he already had pegged as his DC no matter what team he got a HC gig at?
RE: RE: RE: Part of me wants the Vikings to lose Â
so that Shurmur can start assembling his staff. I mainly want to see the Eagles get crushed and the Vikings to make it to the SB against Jacksonville. If Shurmur is still playing and Belichick's season is over we will finally see if there was any truth to the rumors of Belichick wanting to return here.
Multiple NFL reporters have said his staff is already in place and it was before he was the favorite to be the Giants next HC.
So who is to say Spags wasn't the guy he already had pegged as his DC no matter what team he got a HC gig at?
Who said anything about Spags? Jay said he wanted Shurmur to assemble his staff. I replied and said his staff was already assembled.
who leaked that Shurmur was the guy here? The Giants don't seem like they would do so and in fact they lose some bargaining power by doing it. On the other hand, Shurmurs agent would be smart to do so if he thought AZ or others could still be interested and it would drive up the price on all sides.
Now, if BB is still a possibility, regardless of how small, then leaking the Shurmur stuff provides the "cover of darkness" on those negotiations...
If there's any way to get out of his contract without great pain, I think BB would jump here. A final challenge where his success began to end his career. His contract status always seems under secrecy, though.
at all. You may disagree, but why call people idiots? Spags and Shurmur, if it is Shurmur, have a relationship dating back to St Louis (I believe). I think Spags hired him. Likely there is a respect level. Also its perfectly reasonable to suggest that Shumur would want to keep some little bit of continuity during his move. For these two reasons, plus the fact that Spags has not been interviewing anywhere (openly anyway), leads one to consider that Spags staying is a viable option.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Part of me wants the Vikings to lose Â
so that Shurmur can start assembling his staff. I mainly want to see the Eagles get crushed and the Vikings to make it to the SB against Jacksonville. If Shurmur is still playing and Belichick's season is over we will finally see if there was any truth to the rumors of Belichick wanting to return here.
Multiple NFL reporters have said his staff is already in place and it was before he was the favorite to be the Giants next HC.
So who is to say Spags wasn't the guy he already had pegged as his DC no matter what team he got a HC gig at?
Who said anything about Spags? Jay said he wanted Shurmur to assemble his staff. I replied and said his staff was already assembled.
Sorry, Was reading some of the other comments and got them caught up into your statement thinking you meant Spags couldn't be in his plans because he supposedly had already assembled his staff.
If there's any way to get out of his contract without great pain, I think BB would jump here. A final challenge where his success began to end his career. His contract status always seems under secrecy, though.
Is this even 1% based on something you've heard? Or simply getting lost in the stars with us less-rational fans? Want this more than anything, but unless you've heard things, it seems hard to claim a contract is all that's keeping him from leaving his dynasty. Damn. Tell us more JonC!
so that Shurmur can start assembling his staff. I mainly want to see the Eagles get crushed and the Vikings to make it to the SB against Jacksonville. If Shurmur is still playing and Belichick's season is over we will finally see if there was any truth to the rumors of Belichick wanting to return here.
I have a serious question and I don't want to get hammered for this, but if Little Bill decided to leave NE, would the Giants really pay $10-15m per year for him. In addition, fire Gettleman and give him total control. I just don't see that happening.
I'm not an insider or anything, my hunch still says, if he leaves NE, he sits out a year and resurfaces with a team like the Dolphins.
Shurmur is the going to be the coach, Spags will be DC, Quinn might be back and Eli will be starting at QB in Week 1. I just think things are as they seem.
If there's any way to get out of his contract without great pain, I think BB would jump here. A final challenge where his success began to end his career. His contract status always seems under secrecy, though.
Is this even 1% based on something you've heard? Or simply getting lost in the stars with us less-rational fans? Want this more than anything, but unless you've heard things, it seems hard to claim a contract is all that's keeping him from leaving his dynasty. Damn. Tell us more JonC!
An educated guess by me and more than a few beats. I do believe there's smoke just not as urgent as the ESPN story tried to make it. My main source said two weeks ago it was "not happening".
Mara should move heaven and earth to make it happen. Draft picks, money, anything. The Giants could trade this year's and next year's entire drafts for Belichick and still be winning the Super Bowl within 5 years.
If there's a 1% chance, Mara should be using every resource at his disposal to get that number to 100%.
Mara should move heaven and earth to make it happen. Draft picks, money, anything. The Giants could trade this year's and next year's entire drafts for Belichick and still be winning the Super Bowl within 5 years.
If there's a 1% chance, Mara should be using every resource at his disposal to get that number to 100%.
One obstacle is DG. Would the Giants fire him? I don't think so. Would the Giants "promote" him? Possibly. I think the whole Brady/BB/Kraft story has merit. However, I believe the BB --> Giants is based on the Giants needing a HC and Bill's former connection to the Giants.
Mara should move heaven and earth to make it happen. Draft picks, money, anything. The Giants could trade this year's and next year's entire drafts for Belichick and still be winning the Super Bowl within 5 years.
If there's a 1% chance, Mara should be using every resource at his disposal to get that number to 100%.
even go so far as not forcing Spags and Quinn on him? :-)
If he's not willing to cede whatever control necessary to get Belichick here, fire him. It's a crappy thing to do but Belichick is not an opportunity that can be passed up. In 30 years of watching football I have not seen another single person (owner/GM/coach/player) that is as singularly influential in creating wins for his team. His record at New England is 214-74, which is an average season of 12-4. That alone is incredible, but he's actually been getting better. 12-4 is actually the Pats' worst record since 2009. Since the end of the 2009 season his record is 102-26.
So in the last 8 years, which in and of itself is a long run for a coach at any one team, Belichick has an .800 winning percentage which almost comes to a 13-3 average season.
This is a league designed to drag successful teams back to the pack, but Belichick has found a way to beat the system which is only increasing the separation between him and everyone else.
He might actually be the greatest coach in the history of all sports. If he has any interest in coming here we have to make it happen at any cost.
if the Giants have to part with a bunch of premium picks, BB would likely have to be willing to sign a multi-year deal with at least 4 years for sure. Don't forget that the Patriots huge success was also in part due to Tom Brady.
I assume Shurmur already touched base with his potential Â
if the Giants have to part with a bunch of premium picks, BB would likely have to be willing to sign a multi-year deal with at least 4 years for sure. Don't forget that the Patriots huge success was also in part due to Tom Brady.
No disrespect to Brady, but I think Belichick would be winning there without him. If Belichick came here I think he'd win with Eli, Webb, or a free agent pickup like Keenum or Bradford or someone like that.
But yeah I'd want the Giants to give Belichick a lifetime contract.
Brady of course is the biggest piece in Belichick's success Â
so I'm no asshat here. I just have a strange feeling that there will be more to this Belichick thing once the Pats season ends. Belichick does his own thing, we know this, as shown when he ditched the Jets and ruined the transition plan from Parcells.
But I think back to the following
- I wrote the other day about the story of the Giants trying to bring Parcells back in 1997, and when you look at the timelines involved, the Giants had decided to bring him back while he was still with the Patriots. So they have backchanneled before.
- In 2006, I wrote on BBI that I heard the Giants were interested in bringing back Belichick and Pioli, and the Giants asked for permission to interview Pioli, who would turn them down and the Giants went for Reese. In hindsight, it looks like Pioli and Belichick used the Giants for leverage to get Kraft to spend more on free agency since they felt he went the cheap route in 2006 and cost them a chance at a Super Bowl.
Now we come to 2017. The Giants have the head coach open. That ESPN story put Brady and Kraft in a bad light and felt planted in many ways by the Belichick camp at the same time the Giants brass was in Foxboro talking to Patricia and McDaniels. And if Belichick decides he's not in the mood for the antics up in New England anymore, it's not beyond him to just move on. We know he still loves the Giants. We know the Giants have wanted him back.
Maybe the 3rd time is a charm for a reunion.
Odds are the Giants will go the safe route and pick Shurmur, but if there ever was a the chance for Belichick to come back, this is it.
But he did wring 11-5 out of the Patriots with Matt Cassel starting in 2008.
While that is true I will say this, the Patriots have won year in and year out with a system. They have changed players, changed schemes but the system has been the same. Brady is a vital cog but is he the sole reason? Is he Brady because of BB and his overall system? Hard to say but as you pointed out the Pats won 11 games with Matt Cassel at QB... The Pats didn't miss much with Jimmy G or even Jacoby B at QB.
But it just seems so far fetched to believe that this would actually happen.
I know. I just texted a friend of mine that if someone approached me carrying a sledge hammer and said that Belichick would be the next coach but I'd have to have my leg broken, I would give it some serious thought.
I keep coming back to the same thing...if Belichick has any interest at all, even the slightest grain of it, it is incumbent on ownership to get him to sign on the line which is dotted.
RE: Brady of course is the biggest piece in Belichick's success Â
I know. I just texted a friend of mine that if someone approached me carrying a sledge hammer and said that Belichick would be the next coach but I'd have to have my leg broken, I would give it some serious thought.
I keep coming back to the same thing...if Belichick has any interest at all, even the slightest grain of it, it is incumbent on ownership to get him to sign on the line which is dotted.
For a guy who is notorious for keeping a tight, heavy lid on displaying emotion, getting teary-eyed and choked-up on camera in the Giants facilities spoke enormous volumes.
There have to be extremely vulnerable emotions there that Mara could exploit.
I’m sure he would love to be the first NFL HC to win a SB with 2 different teams. I’m sure he’d also love to come back to the Giants (if not as HC, maybe in the front office down the line). The thing is, the Pats continue to have a clear path to the SB each year. Does Belichick want to leave that?
Shurmur can come back to talk to them in between the NFC champ Â
If he's not willing to cede whatever control necessary to get Belichick here, fire him. It's a crappy thing to do but Belichick is not an opportunity that can be passed up. In 30 years of watching football I have not seen another single person (owner/GM/coach/player) that is as singularly influential in creating wins for his team. His record at New England is 214-74, which is an average season of 12-4. That alone is incredible, but he's actually been getting better. 12-4 is actually the Pats' worst record since 2009. Since the end of the 2009 season his record is 102-26.
So in the last 8 years, which in and of itself is a long run for a coach at any one team, Belichick has an .800 winning percentage which almost comes to a 13-3 average season.
This is a league designed to drag successful teams back to the pack, but Belichick has found a way to beat the system which is only increasing the separation between him and everyone else.
He might actually be the greatest coach in the history of all sports. If he has any interest in coming here we have to make it happen at any cost.
I’m sure he would love to be the first NFL HC to win a SB with 2 different teams. I’m sure he’d also love to come back to the Giants (if not as HC, maybe in the front office down the line). The thing is, the Pats continue to have a clear path to the SB each year. Does Belichick want to leave that?
This clear path thing makes no sense. The Pats have stumbled in games against the Jets, Dolphins and Bills over the years. The Steelers, Ravens and Broncos all have been powers throughout. The Colts were a major thorn for years during the Pats run under BB. This idea that they just need to show up each year and they will probably make the SB takes away from BB's coaching and the team in general. The Pats change more players, at major positions and still win than any team I have seen.
RE: I don't think its out of bounds to suggest Spags will stay on Â
at all. You may disagree, but why call people idiots? Spags and Shurmur, if it is Shurmur, have a relationship dating back to St Louis (I believe). I think Spags hired him. Likely there is a respect level. Also its perfectly reasonable to suggest that Shumur would want to keep some little bit of continuity during his move. For these two reasons, plus the fact that Spags has not been interviewing anywhere (openly anyway), leads one to consider that Spags staying is a viable option.
Spags and Shurmur's relationship goes back even further than that. Both were assistants in Philadelphia for several years under Andy Reid.
Multiple NFL reporters have said his staff is already in place and it was before he was the favorite to be the Giants next HC.
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In comment 13795120 yatqb said:
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will be back next year. I'm not thrilled with that, but give him enough talent and Spags will do a good job.
Why? No HC has been hired yet. Stop assuming...you make an ass out of yourself when you do
Hey, Felix, cut that out...I'm a sensitive man whose feelings are easily hurt.
So, why am I making this assumption?
Because none of our long time defensive coaches have even gone for an interview elsewhere. These are respected guys (Spags, Merritt, Walton) who would certainly receive interest around the league, and would also be scrambling for new jobs if they didn't know that they were being retained.
The fact that all of our offensive assistants have gotten new jobs and none of our defensive assistants have even gone for interviews implies to me that the defensive guys are returning to the Giants.
Yat, I share that opinion but the obvious problem with that line of thinking is how did a signal go out to the O staff to look for new jobs while asking the D to stay put - before a HC was selected; e.g. Patricia may have wanted his own staff.
The tinfoil hat answer is that the "fix was in" for Shurmur from the start. :)
I realize that as long as Minnesota is playing, we can't make anything official - but it just feels like something else is going on.
Maybe all the Belichick speculation is just making me think irrationally.
Quote:
so that Shurmur can start assembling his staff. I mainly want to see the Eagles get crushed and the Vikings to make it to the SB against Jacksonville. If Shurmur is still playing and Belichick's season is over we will finally see if there was any truth to the rumors of Belichick wanting to return here.
Multiple NFL reporters have said his staff is already in place and it was before he was the favorite to be the Giants next HC.
So who is to say Spags wasn't the guy he already had pegged as his DC no matter what team he got a HC gig at?
Quote:
In comment 13795166 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
so that Shurmur can start assembling his staff. I mainly want to see the Eagles get crushed and the Vikings to make it to the SB against Jacksonville. If Shurmur is still playing and Belichick's season is over we will finally see if there was any truth to the rumors of Belichick wanting to return here.
Multiple NFL reporters have said his staff is already in place and it was before he was the favorite to be the Giants next HC.
So who is to say Spags wasn't the guy he already had pegged as his DC no matter what team he got a HC gig at?
Who said anything about Spags? Jay said he wanted Shurmur to assemble his staff. I replied and said his staff was already assembled.
Now, if BB is still a possibility, regardless of how small, then leaking the Shurmur stuff provides the "cover of darkness" on those negotiations...
Most likely it was his agent.
I realize that as long as Minnesota is playing, we can't make anything official - but it just feels like something else is going on.
Maybe all the Belichick speculation is just making me think irrationally.
that's just it..the BB talk is making you more irrationally
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for Belicheck to plot his escape to NYG.
JonC = Slade???
We're through the looking glass here, people!
If there's any way to get out of his contract without great pain, I think BB would jump here. A final challenge where his success began to end his career. His contract status always seems under secrecy, though.
I realize that as long as Minnesota is playing, we can't make anything official - but it just feels like something else is going on.
Maybe all the Belichick speculation is just making me think irrationally.
Don't forget that Bob Kratch bet his life on BB going to the Giants.
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In comment 13795185 Big Rick in FL said:
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In comment 13795166 Jay on the Island said:
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so that Shurmur can start assembling his staff. I mainly want to see the Eagles get crushed and the Vikings to make it to the SB against Jacksonville. If Shurmur is still playing and Belichick's season is over we will finally see if there was any truth to the rumors of Belichick wanting to return here.
Multiple NFL reporters have said his staff is already in place and it was before he was the favorite to be the Giants next HC.
So who is to say Spags wasn't the guy he already had pegged as his DC no matter what team he got a HC gig at?
Who said anything about Spags? Jay said he wanted Shurmur to assemble his staff. I replied and said his staff was already assembled.
Sorry, Was reading some of the other comments and got them caught up into your statement thinking you meant Spags couldn't be in his plans because he supposedly had already assembled his staff.
It sure seemed much more certain that the Niners were hiring Shanahan at this same point in time last year. But maybe I am fuzzy on the details.
Quote:
If there's any way to get out of his contract without great pain, I think BB would jump here. A final challenge where his success began to end his career. His contract status always seems under secrecy, though.
Is this even 1% based on something you've heard? Or simply getting lost in the stars with us less-rational fans? Want this more than anything, but unless you've heard things, it seems hard to claim a contract is all that's keeping him from leaving his dynasty. Damn. Tell us more JonC!
My sentiments exactly.
I'm not an insider or anything, my hunch still says, if he leaves NE, he sits out a year and resurfaces with a team like the Dolphins.
Shurmur is the going to be the coach, Spags will be DC, Quinn might be back and Eli will be starting at QB in Week 1. I just think things are as they seem.
Quote:
Quote:
If there's any way to get out of his contract without great pain, I think BB would jump here. A final challenge where his success began to end his career. His contract status always seems under secrecy, though.
Is this even 1% based on something you've heard? Or simply getting lost in the stars with us less-rational fans? Want this more than anything, but unless you've heard things, it seems hard to claim a contract is all that's keeping him from leaving his dynasty. Damn. Tell us more JonC!
An educated guess by me and more than a few beats. I do believe there's smoke just not as urgent as the ESPN story tried to make it. My main source said two weeks ago it was "not happening".
If there's a 1% chance, Mara should be using every resource at his disposal to get that number to 100%.
If there's a 1% chance, Mara should be using every resource at his disposal to get that number to 100%.
One obstacle is DG. Would the Giants fire him? I don't think so. Would the Giants "promote" him? Possibly. I think the whole Brady/BB/Kraft story has merit. However, I believe the BB --> Giants is based on the Giants needing a HC and Bill's former connection to the Giants.
If there's a 1% chance, Mara should be using every resource at his disposal to get that number to 100%.
even go so far as not forcing Spags and Quinn on him? :-)
So in the last 8 years, which in and of itself is a long run for a coach at any one team, Belichick has an .800 winning percentage which almost comes to a 13-3 average season.
This is a league designed to drag successful teams back to the pack, but Belichick has found a way to beat the system which is only increasing the separation between him and everyone else.
He might actually be the greatest coach in the history of all sports. If he has any interest in coming here we have to make it happen at any cost.
Don't forget that Bob Kratch bet his life on BB going to the Giants.
RIP Bob Kratch
No disrespect to Brady, but I think Belichick would be winning there without him. If Belichick came here I think he'd win with Eli, Webb, or a free agent pickup like Keenum or Bradford or someone like that.
But yeah I'd want the Giants to give Belichick a lifetime contract.
But I think back to the following
- I wrote the other day about the story of the Giants trying to bring Parcells back in 1997, and when you look at the timelines involved, the Giants had decided to bring him back while he was still with the Patriots. So they have backchanneled before.
- In 2006, I wrote on BBI that I heard the Giants were interested in bringing back Belichick and Pioli, and the Giants asked for permission to interview Pioli, who would turn them down and the Giants went for Reese. In hindsight, it looks like Pioli and Belichick used the Giants for leverage to get Kraft to spend more on free agency since they felt he went the cheap route in 2006 and cost them a chance at a Super Bowl.
Now we come to 2017. The Giants have the head coach open. That ESPN story put Brady and Kraft in a bad light and felt planted in many ways by the Belichick camp at the same time the Giants brass was in Foxboro talking to Patricia and McDaniels. And if Belichick decides he's not in the mood for the antics up in New England anymore, it's not beyond him to just move on. We know he still loves the Giants. We know the Giants have wanted him back.
Maybe the 3rd time is a charm for a reunion.
Odds are the Giants will go the safe route and pick Shurmur, but if there ever was a the chance for Belichick to come back, this is it.
Wondering if this thread is inconspicuous enough for hitdog to weigh in, if he has anything to share.
-the Cardinals were thought to be Shurmur's other main suitor
Wondering if this thread is inconspicuous enough for hitdog to weigh in, if he has anything to share.
NEs value exceeding mega-market NYG is no accident or feather in Kraft's cap. Bill wins. Winners make money. He'd pay for himself.
While that is true I will say this, the Patriots have won year in and year out with a system. They have changed players, changed schemes but the system has been the same. Brady is a vital cog but is he the sole reason? Is he Brady because of BB and his overall system? Hard to say but as you pointed out the Pats won 11 games with Matt Cassel at QB... The Pats didn't miss much with Jimmy G or even Jacoby B at QB.
BB would be the ultimate win for us!
So much at play right now. If the Pats exit this Sunday things could get quite interesting Monday and Tuesday in Giants land...
I know. I just texted a friend of mine that if someone approached me carrying a sledge hammer and said that Belichick would be the next coach but I'd have to have my leg broken, I would give it some serious thought.
I keep coming back to the same thing...if Belichick has any interest at all, even the slightest grain of it, it is incumbent on ownership to get him to sign on the line which is dotted.
And 3-1 out of Garoppolo and Brissett.
That's 14-6 without Brady.
I know. I just texted a friend of mine that if someone approached me carrying a sledge hammer and said that Belichick would be the next coach but I'd have to have my leg broken, I would give it some serious thought.
I could live with that.
:>)
For a guy who is notorious for keeping a tight, heavy lid on displaying emotion, getting teary-eyed and choked-up on camera in the Giants facilities spoke enormous volumes.
There have to be extremely vulnerable emotions there that Mara could exploit.
I could live with that.
:>)
Around here I think you might have to take a number for that.
Won't be long until that happens and we can put the BB stuff to rest for good.
So in the last 8 years, which in and of itself is a long run for a coach at any one team, Belichick has an .800 winning percentage which almost comes to a 13-3 average season.
This is a league designed to drag successful teams back to the pack, but Belichick has found a way to beat the system which is only increasing the separation between him and everyone else.
He might actually be the greatest coach in the history of all sports. If he has any interest in coming here we have to make it happen at any cost.
This clear path thing makes no sense. The Pats have stumbled in games against the Jets, Dolphins and Bills over the years. The Steelers, Ravens and Broncos all have been powers throughout. The Colts were a major thorn for years during the Pats run under BB. This idea that they just need to show up each year and they will probably make the SB takes away from BB's coaching and the team in general. The Pats change more players, at major positions and still win than any team I have seen.
Spags and Shurmur's relationship goes back even further than that. Both were assistants in Philadelphia for several years under Andy Reid.