He passed his physical and is now a Met. Low-cost move, they'll be on the hook for about half a million. Hopefully he can be the 2015 or at least the 2016 version of himself, and not the 2017 version.
I just dont think you can have it both ways. Reed's value fell because he was signed so much later than the other backend options signed around the meetings. There's a good chance at the winter meetings Reed was asking for a lot more. You cant be mad at Sandy for being aggressive and coming away with a guy and then be mad that he didnt wait out the market on a guy like Reed who may have ended up being a bigger bargain months later.
That's exactly what he's doing with the 2B/3B market right now and everyone is pissed for the opposite reason.
They could have easily signed both. Going into the offseason they were talking about signing multiple RP - until the market turned into an “inferno” and Sandy’s budget got cut lower than expected.
Almost every good player on the market is still there. Not saying we are coming away with Yu Darvish, Arrieta, JD Martinez, or Hosmer but the whole offseason is basically still right there in play. Nobody has done anything really.... There are quality 2B/3B available, quality SP available, and quality RP available.
Bruce was like the second-best free agent signed by any team so far. lol.
I just dont think you can have it both ways. Reed's value fell because he was signed so much later than the other backend options signed around the meetings. There's a good chance at the winter meetings Reed was asking for a lot more. You cant be mad at Sandy for being aggressive and coming away with a guy and then be mad that he didnt wait out the market on a guy like Reed who may have ended up being a bigger bargain months later.
That's exactly what he's doing with the 2B/3B market right now and everyone is pissed for the opposite reason.
They could have easily signed both. Going into the offseason they were talking about signing multiple RP - until the market turned into an “inferno” and Sandy’s budget got cut lower than expected.
They never said they were looking at adding multiple 8th inning types. Could have been one backend guy and a second tier type for all we know They already added Ramos specifically for 2018 and now Swarzak. Plus your getting Familia back.
Swarzak pitched more before the 8th inning last year than as setup guy Â
Reed proved he can be a top setup man - which is something Ramos has not showed. He’s been a middling closet, and that doesn’t necessarily mean he can excel as a setup man. Plus he’s only got one year so it would have made sense to secure Reed on a steal of a contract now. Odds are someone will get hurt or not have their best season, passing on Reed now will likely mean giving up a top 10 prospect in season.
"steal of a contract" when they were shopping for a backend option. Swarzak is coming off an amazing season and is still costing almost 10 million. Ramos is making around that. You say sign Reed too? Reed, even at a value later, would have made close to that too. You're talking about allocating 30 million of the payroll to setup options when we have a bunch of other holes. Not sure I would agree with that. Reed in a vacuum? Sure. I like him. But there other moving pieces in play.
You realize they were still trying to sign Reed up until last week? Â
So clearly they saw a need to bring him back. They didn’t just move on after signing Swarzak. Presumably they just didn’t have the budget for it after signing Bruce and self imposing budget cuts - which is why everyone other than you loathes this franchise. Source: Mets still interested in signing Jay Bruce, Addison Reed - ( New Window )
another player then clearly they did have enough room for Bruce and Reed but chose to allocate that money on other needs. Until I see the final picture Ill reserve judgement on whether it was the right call or not.
Adding 37 relievers to the roster when we have massive holes in the lineup and rotation doesn't seem as prudent to me as it might be to others.
Further, we can argue about it until we are blue in the face but nothing is going to make the majority of the fanbase happy again until wins are on the board and we wont know that until well into the season.
If the Mets showed even a glimmer of a desire to put a winning product on the field.
So in an offseason where literally 90% of all free agents are still on the board, and they went out and acquired one of the best relievers in baseball last year and a bonafide slugger and flat out said yesterday they are looking for another significant acquisition they are showing you they have no desire to put a winning product on the field (PS they put a winning product on the field 2 of the last 3 years).
Npbody has virtually done a thing except maybe the Giants and the Yankees getting Stanton.
At least we are somewhat active.
The biggest additions are going to come from guys like Syndergaard, Familia, and Cespedes anyway... most of the offseason is irrelevant unless we get our franchise cornerstones back and healthy.
Npbody has virtually done a thing except maybe the Giants and the Yankees getting Stanton.
At least we are somewhat active.
The biggest additions are going to come from guys like Syndergaard, Familia, and Cespedes anyway... most of the offseason is irrelevant unless we get our franchise cornerstones back and healthy.
Yet unsurprising you framed it as "winning product in two of the last three years).
You come gently left out the 79 win team. Or the fact that Sandy has been here for seven. They've had one 90 win team in how many season running?
Oh JFC. Here comes the chicken and the egg bullshit again. We had a complete wipeout of injuries last year. How did the Giants do last year after Bumgarner went down?? They were a playoff team the year before that too. The Red Sox, Diamondbacks, and many other teams had complete wipeout seasons sprinkled in due to losing a few of their key players over the last 5 years.
As for before 2015... You do realize that Syndergaard and Conforto didnt even hit the majors until 2015 right? And not a single first round pick before that either right? The window couldn't have possibly started before 2015. Sandy built his team to start winning in 2015 (also the year he went in on a star in Cespedes). Since the talent he acquired started hitting the majors we have gone to the playoffs 2 times out of 3 and the majority of the fanbase thought last year had its most talented roster. INJURIES KILLED THAT TEAM.
in his post, I do believe injuries were the major reason for 2017 and even for only getting the WC in 2016.
but I also think it's a little bit disingenuous to say Sandy went in on a star in Cespedes.
If we're to believe the reports, and I have not seen anyone dispute them, the Mets were a failed physical away from Carlos Gomez and a decent chance if I had to guess how the rest of that season would have played out, at not making the World Series.
I won't say it's all look but a pretty serendipitous failed physical.
I forget who was next, but from the reports Cespedes was the 3rd choice.
The only positive would have been the Mets probably still have Fulmer, I don't remember him being in the Gomez trade I think it was Flores and Wheeler.
So Thor, deGrom and Fulmer might have made 2016 even better.
for injuries, but there comes a point where the results have to be there. If you're the GM of a team for almost a decade and in the NY market, you need to make it past the wild card play-in game more than once.
I don't think anyone here was calling for Sandy to be fired after 2017, but it would take willful blindness to not understanding why people are upset after a 90 loss season, a bottom 10 (bottom 5 by some rankings) farm system, and a lackluster offseason in which multiple sources have said the team plans on cutting payroll.
A good 2018 season will of course raise spirits (especially if the farm system rebounds) but if the Mets win 87 games and lose in the wild card game again, I'll be left wondering what the team might've been able to do if ownership was willing to spend more money to improve the team.
I think the ownership has a fan unfriendly stance on when fans show up we'll spend money. Fred has said those exact words.
What business gets away with that?
And Sandy, whether he's falling on his sword and taking one for the team or not is unknown, but he's had a pretty bad draft record, and a pretty bad decision record with things like Cuddyer and the Neil Walker QO.
I agree Sandy has been here long enough that this whole mess is on him, the fact he's had a #13, #12, #11, and #10 draft pick that seem like a decent chance of amounting to one MLB player does not speak well to his draft philosophy.
and that's not even considering how bad 2016 draft is looking right now (even with Alonso) it's early, but not looking good.
in his post, I do believe injuries were the major reason for 2017 and even for only getting the WC in 2016.
but I also think it's a little bit disingenuous to say Sandy went in on a star in Cespedes.
If we're to believe the reports, and I have not seen anyone dispute them, the Mets were a failed physical away from Carlos Gomez and a decent chance if I had to guess how the rest of that season would have played out, at not making the World Series.
I won't say it's all look but a pretty serendipitous failed physical.
I forget who was next, but from the reports Cespedes was the 3rd choice.
The only positive would have been the Mets probably still have Fulmer, I don't remember him being in the Gomez trade I think it was Flores and Wheeler.
So Thor, deGrom and Fulmer might have made 2016 even better.
Gomez failed his physical, Castellini stepped in and balked at the Wheeler/Bruce deal arguing Bruce was a home grown star etc.
New York Mets
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@Mets
We’ve invited nine players to major league #SpringTraining including: Peter Alonso, P.J. Conlon, Kevin Kaczmarski, Patrick Mazeika, Drew Smith, Corey Taylor, Tim Tebow, David Thompson and Adonis Uceta. #Mets
There hasn't been much talk about adding SP depth Â
Right now they are relying on guys like Harvey bouncing back and Matz/Wheeler staying healthy. How about going after some of the FA starting pitchers if the market keeps dropping. I would feel a lot better about 2018 if they signed someone like Lynn or Cobb.
RE: There hasn't been much talk about adding SP depth Â
Right now they are relying on guys like Harvey bouncing back and Matz/Wheeler staying healthy. How about going after some of the FA starting pitchers if the market keeps dropping. I would feel a lot better about 2018 if they signed someone like Lynn or Cobb.
Cobb has a standing 3 for 42 from the Cubs so there is close to 0% chance he's a Met, Lynn's market is probably too hot as well.
Any other ideas for free agent SP's? Is the market waiting for Lynn and Cobb to sign before the next tier of guys make their move?
I just don't want to see guys like Tommy Milone, Montero and Flexen being relied upon if someone gets hurt or is ineffective.
Initially Sandy made it sound like they may look to add SP depth but since that time he's seemingly walked that back. Reportedly they don't have interest in a Colon reunion but otherwise hard to say. They almost HAVE TO add some sort of SP (even if it's a flier) because their next man up is Chris Flexen (who had an awful debut) followed by...Marcos Molina?
it probably makes sense to not add another SP. Yes, we could use a reliable guy to add to the rotation but since the Mets don't want to have a top 10 payroll, there just isn't the money to add anyone who is better than what we have.
Cross your fingers and hope that Harvey/Matz look good this spring.
it probably makes sense to not add another SP. Yes, we could use a reliable guy to add to the rotation but since the Mets don't want to have a top 10 payroll, there just isn't the money to add anyone who is better than what we have.
Cross your fingers and hope that Harvey/Matz look good this spring.
I would be OK with this approach if our farm system wasn't in such bad shape. I'm not confident they have the chips needed make an in season pick up if Matz/Harvey get hurt or are ineffective.
miss either one and if they do they did something wrong given the plethora of similar guys they have. If they have anything in the system it's potential 6th-7th inning arms.
I agree with Dan, though - I honestly don't even think the Mets would consider that. If they do, things are even worse than I thought - which would be saying a LOT.
but the more I look at it the more I like the Gonzalez lotto ticket. He's like a dollar store Carlos Santana. Obviously, everything hinges on whether or not the back injuries last year were a 1 year thing or if he's just done. If he's done it should be an easy decision to just cut him. If he's healthy though, below are his averages from the last 2 healthy years compared to Carlos Santana's last 3 seasons average. For Gonzalez neither of these seasons were career years or even prime years. They were basically career average type seasons. 2016 was a career year for Santana but his numbers have always been pretty steady year to year. Both are relatively low K guys (17%) but Santana is better at drawing walks.
Santana avg. season '15-'17 - 25 hrs, 83 rbis, .250/.362/.450
Gonzalez avg. season '15-'16 - 23 hrs, 90 rbis, .280/.349/.457
Defensively last year was the only year in the past 7 Gonzalez was negative with DRS. By that metric he's been 1 of the top 1B for the last 5-10 years.
So again, big IF, but if he's healthy and not cooked, Gonzalez could be a good signing. Since this is the Mets he'll probably be garbage for 2 months and then turn into Bobby Hart when they bench him. At the league min this can only work out badly if the Mets let it.
I'd really like to see them use whatever minimal amount of budget they have to find a 2B Rosario can pair with for more than 1 year so it's not a shuttle of guys next to him.
RE: Bringing back Colon I like since it will be cheap, Walker I don't Â
I'd really like to see them use whatever minimal amount of budget they have to find a 2B Rosario can pair with for more than 1 year so it's not a shuttle of guys next to him.
Rosario-Flores DP combo for the next decade
I don't think Flores is the best guy to break in a young shortstop Â
would rather have someone who can be more of a stable defensive presence. Also Flores would likely be shuttled in and out of the lineup as has happened in the past. Not ideal to give a young guy trying to get accustomed to the MLB level extra stuff to worry about.
I'd take a shot on Bart if it was for basically nothing and there was no guarantee or obligation... he was really, really bad last year though. I wouldn't be surprised if he was just finished.
Just funny that seemingly every time we are linked to a player, it's a guy who was already here or we have familiarity with. So Mets.
I'd take a shot on Bart if it was for basically nothing and there was no guarantee or obligation... he was really, really bad last year though. I wouldn't be surprised if he was just finished.
Just funny that seemingly every time we are linked to a player, it's a guy who was already here or we have familiarity with. So Mets.
Yeah to me it's annoying when it's guys who weren't very good here (Walker) or play a position that's already filled (Bruce). In Colon's case they need a few spring training invite pitchers for depth and in his previous stint he was very good in the clubhouse.
Like, if the Mets had a really good roster as it was and were considering adding Bart for additional depth - great! I'm fine with that. But this team isn't linked to any player that will actually be a difference maker. It's always bargain basement guys or players who were already here.
If Anthony Swarzak is our "biggest" new signing this offseason then come the fuck on.
And I actually liked that move - I'm good with it. But that needed to be one of about 5 other moves and it doesn't seem like that's going to be the case.
That's exactly what he's doing with the 2B/3B market right now and everyone is pissed for the opposite reason.
They could have easily signed both. Going into the offseason they were talking about signing multiple RP - until the market turned into an “inferno” and Sandy’s budget got cut lower than expected.
Bruce was like the second-best free agent signed by any team so far. lol.
Quote:
I just dont think you can have it both ways. Reed's value fell because he was signed so much later than the other backend options signed around the meetings. There's a good chance at the winter meetings Reed was asking for a lot more. You cant be mad at Sandy for being aggressive and coming away with a guy and then be mad that he didnt wait out the market on a guy like Reed who may have ended up being a bigger bargain months later.
That's exactly what he's doing with the 2B/3B market right now and everyone is pissed for the opposite reason.
They could have easily signed both. Going into the offseason they were talking about signing multiple RP - until the market turned into an “inferno” and Sandy’s budget got cut lower than expected.
They never said they were looking at adding multiple 8th inning types. Could have been one backend guy and a second tier type for all we know They already added Ramos specifically for 2018 and now Swarzak. Plus your getting Familia back.
Source: Mets still interested in signing Jay Bruce, Addison Reed - ( New Window )
Adding 37 relievers to the roster when we have massive holes in the lineup and rotation doesn't seem as prudent to me as it might be to others.
Further, we can argue about it until we are blue in the face but nothing is going to make the majority of the fanbase happy again until wins are on the board and we wont know that until well into the season.
So in an offseason where literally 90% of all free agents are still on the board, and they went out and acquired one of the best relievers in baseball last year and a bonafide slugger and flat out said yesterday they are looking for another significant acquisition they are showing you they have no desire to put a winning product on the field (PS they put a winning product on the field 2 of the last 3 years).
You come gently left out the 79 win team. Or the fact that Sandy has been here for seven. They've had one 90 win team in how many season running?
At least we are somewhat active.
The biggest additions are going to come from guys like Syndergaard, Familia, and Cespedes anyway... most of the offseason is irrelevant unless we get our franchise cornerstones back and healthy.
At least we are somewhat active.
The biggest additions are going to come from guys like Syndergaard, Familia, and Cespedes anyway... most of the offseason is irrelevant unless we get our franchise cornerstones back and healthy.
Are you for real?
You come gently left out the 79 win team. Or the fact that Sandy has been here for seven. They've had one 90 win team in how many season running?
Oh JFC. Here comes the chicken and the egg bullshit again. We had a complete wipeout of injuries last year. How did the Giants do last year after Bumgarner went down?? They were a playoff team the year before that too. The Red Sox, Diamondbacks, and many other teams had complete wipeout seasons sprinkled in due to losing a few of their key players over the last 5 years.
As for before 2015... You do realize that Syndergaard and Conforto didnt even hit the majors until 2015 right? And not a single first round pick before that either right? The window couldn't have possibly started before 2015. Sandy built his team to start winning in 2015 (also the year he went in on a star in Cespedes). Since the talent he acquired started hitting the majors we have gone to the playoffs 2 times out of 3 and the majority of the fanbase thought last year had its most talented roster. INJURIES KILLED THAT TEAM.
but I also think it's a little bit disingenuous to say Sandy went in on a star in Cespedes.
If we're to believe the reports, and I have not seen anyone dispute them, the Mets were a failed physical away from Carlos Gomez and a decent chance if I had to guess how the rest of that season would have played out, at not making the World Series.
I won't say it's all look but a pretty serendipitous failed physical.
I forget who was next, but from the reports Cespedes was the 3rd choice.
The only positive would have been the Mets probably still have Fulmer, I don't remember him being in the Gomez trade I think it was Flores and Wheeler.
So Thor, deGrom and Fulmer might have made 2016 even better.
I don't think anyone here was calling for Sandy to be fired after 2017, but it would take willful blindness to not understanding why people are upset after a 90 loss season, a bottom 10 (bottom 5 by some rankings) farm system, and a lackluster offseason in which multiple sources have said the team plans on cutting payroll.
A good 2018 season will of course raise spirits (especially if the farm system rebounds) but if the Mets win 87 games and lose in the wild card game again, I'll be left wondering what the team might've been able to do if ownership was willing to spend more money to improve the team.
What business gets away with that?
And Sandy, whether he's falling on his sword and taking one for the team or not is unknown, but he's had a pretty bad draft record, and a pretty bad decision record with things like Cuddyer and the Neil Walker QO.
I agree Sandy has been here long enough that this whole mess is on him, the fact he's had a #13, #12, #11, and #10 draft pick that seem like a decent chance of amounting to one MLB player does not speak well to his draft philosophy.
and that's not even considering how bad 2016 draft is looking right now (even with Alonso) it's early, but not looking good.
Link - ( New Window )
but I also think it's a little bit disingenuous to say Sandy went in on a star in Cespedes.
If we're to believe the reports, and I have not seen anyone dispute them, the Mets were a failed physical away from Carlos Gomez and a decent chance if I had to guess how the rest of that season would have played out, at not making the World Series.
I won't say it's all look but a pretty serendipitous failed physical.
I forget who was next, but from the reports Cespedes was the 3rd choice.
The only positive would have been the Mets probably still have Fulmer, I don't remember him being in the Gomez trade I think it was Flores and Wheeler.
So Thor, deGrom and Fulmer might have made 2016 even better.
Gomez failed his physical, Castellini stepped in and balked at the Wheeler/Bruce deal arguing Bruce was a home grown star etc.
Maybe we'll see an Ichiro, Tebow and Bruce OF if the Mets are out of contention in September. Would be a great way to pack the stands!
New York Mets
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@Mets
We’ve invited nine players to major league #SpringTraining including: Peter Alonso, P.J. Conlon, Kevin Kaczmarski, Patrick Mazeika, Drew Smith, Corey Taylor, Tim Tebow, David Thompson and Adonis Uceta. #Mets
Cobb has a standing 3 for 42 from the Cubs so there is close to 0% chance he's a Met, Lynn's market is probably too hot as well.
I just don't want to see guys like Tommy Milone, Montero and Flexen being relied upon if someone gets hurt or is ineffective.
I just don't want to see guys like Tommy Milone, Montero and Flexen being relied upon if someone gets hurt or is ineffective.
Initially Sandy made it sound like they may look to add SP depth but since that time he's seemingly walked that back. Reportedly they don't have interest in a Colon reunion but otherwise hard to say. They almost HAVE TO add some sort of SP (even if it's a flier) because their next man up is Chris Flexen (who had an awful debut) followed by...Marcos Molina?
Cross your fingers and hope that Harvey/Matz look good this spring.
Cross your fingers and hope that Harvey/Matz look good this spring.
I would be OK with this approach if our farm system wasn't in such bad shape. I'm not confident they have the chips needed make an in season pick up if Matz/Harvey get hurt or are ineffective.
not saying it will, but hope that doesn't come back to bite the Mets.
I'm as cynical as they come and even I don't think they would consider that.
If Matt Reynolds is our starting 2B, I won't watch a single game.
Give the kid a chance. He wont be a bust.
Why any beat writer follows the Mets, I’ll never know.
Santana avg. season '15-'17 - 25 hrs, 83 rbis, .250/.362/.450
Gonzalez avg. season '15-'16 - 23 hrs, 90 rbis, .280/.349/.457
Defensively last year was the only year in the past 7 Gonzalez was negative with DRS. By that metric he's been 1 of the top 1B for the last 5-10 years.
So again, big IF, but if he's healthy and not cooked, Gonzalez could be a good signing. Since this is the Mets he'll probably be garbage for 2 months and then turn into Bobby Hart when they bench him. At the league min this can only work out badly if the Mets let it.
Why would Reynolds be our starting 2B? He's likely 4th or 5th on our depth chart now without an addition.
Flores
TJ Rivera (when healthy)
Cecchini
Possibly even Guillorme if you wanted defense.
Reynolds
And we are still likely bringing in a 2B/3B IMO.
LOL
Like I keep saying - it's like they only gravitate towards the guys they already know. It's so stale and uninspiring.
How about a guy who actually didn't already play here?
Rosario-Flores DP combo for the next decade
Just funny that seemingly every time we are linked to a player, it's a guy who was already here or we have familiarity with. So Mets.
Just funny that seemingly every time we are linked to a player, it's a guy who was already here or we have familiarity with. So Mets.
Yeah to me it's annoying when it's guys who weren't very good here (Walker) or play a position that's already filled (Bruce). In Colon's case they need a few spring training invite pitchers for depth and in his previous stint he was very good in the clubhouse.
If Anthony Swarzak is our "biggest" new signing this offseason then come the fuck on.
And I actually liked that move - I'm good with it. But that needed to be one of about 5 other moves and it doesn't seem like that's going to be the case.