I do not like projecting trades...if you want to look at odds...they are overwhelmingly tipped towards NYG not trading the #2 pick.
So assuming that NYG stays put and they do not like the concerns surrounding the QBs (everyone has to admit that is at least a possibility right now)...this team goes in to the draft needing to build around Eli Manning one more time for 2018, possibly 2019.
Whether you have this unproven theory that running backs should not be taken this high or not, assume Saquon Barkley may be the strongest option available. I don't see any other players meeting the elite grade mark, and passing on a talent like him would be borderline foolish. I will say the evaluation process still has a little ways to go, so someone like a Bradley Chubb or a Connor Williams or a Minkah Fitzpatrick could warrant the #2 spot, but I am leaning towards that not happening.
So Barkley to NYG at #2...does this require them to take OL at the top of the 2nd round? Drafting solely based on need is never a good idea, kind of like going to the grocery store when you are hungry. What if, say a LB like Roquan Smith is there, do you pass on him for a guard? Or a tackle that may not be able to win the left tackle job?
That, just as much as what to do with the #2 pick, is as tough as it gets. All of this can be solved Gettleman gets really aggressive with the OL via free agency, but shelling out big dollars for the guys in this class would worry me just as much as relying on day 1/2 rookies. One thing is for certain, this team cannot go in to 2018 with what they left 2017 with along the OL.
We have some all-star-type players but a whole lot of nothing to go with those few assets.
Those who say force OL in the first round are being short-sighted. If Eli were three years younger, I would say Barkley. Now, I'm learning more towards QB. But Barkley is something special.
Whatever they do, they can't afford to screw this up. Not when you look at the wreckage that is our recent drafting past.
Gettleman gets Norwell from Carolina in FA.
1st Round - Barkley
2nd Round - Price
That has to improve the ground game significantly, no?
At least that is highly unlikely with Hart gone and Pugh, Richburg, and Fluker all UFAs!
I think (hope) they will sign at least one 'premium' OL in FA and 2-3 OL in total with Flowers/Jerry/Jones/Wheeler battling with the newcomers.
And assuming no trades, I'd put the odds of them grabbing at least 1 OL in rds 2-3 pretty high.
Ah, this tired argument rears it's ugly head. You don't leave a special player on the board because you don't have an OL yet.
If NYG can bring in a good FA OL and draft a good OL, the group can be good enough to warrant Barkley.
And I keep pointing to the Rams...their OL was worse than NYG for 2 years...couple fixes over 2 years and now they may have the most dangerous running back in football. I bet they are stoked they didn't look past Gurley
Gettleman gets Norwell from Carolina in FA.
1st Round - Barkley
2nd Round - Price
That has to improve the ground game significantly, no?
And assuming you throw Pugh to RT or LT? Yes I think that OL is better. Flowers still in the picture though AND you are gonna have a ton of money wrapped up in to Pugh/Norwell.
We have some all-star-type players but a whole lot of nothing to go with those few assets.
Those who say force OL in the first round are being short-sighted. If Eli were three years younger, I would say Barkley. Now, I'm learning more towards QB. But Barkley is something special.
Whatever they do, they can't afford to screw this up. Not when you look at the wreckage that is our recent drafting past.
With every passing day, this is becoming how I look at things. I lean QB, but only if that QB is "the guy". Has to be someone they view as a franchise QB, clean medical history, good leader. Is that Rosen, I don't know but I'm leaning towards no. Might be Darnold and might be Allen. We shall see.
To me Barkley is can't miss and if you come away with Barkley in the first round you probably can't complain about it...until 2020 when there is no Eli and you have to roll the dice with Webb. If you go the Barkley route, you are probably banking on Shurmur being the QB guru and working a minor miracle with Webb, another later round QB, or a journeyman.
Gettleman will pick up some offensive line pieces in FA, and I'm sure he will take a strong look at the lineman in the second. But if Smith is there in the 2nd and he is higher on your board then the lineman, pull the plug on Smith. He seems like a talented backer, something we haven't had since Antonio Pierce.
This roster can use talent at every position. Take the talent when you get offered it.
BTW, with the exception of Fournette,there are no highly drafted runners who are playing Sunday. You don't need great runners to win the Super Bowl.
A truly "special" RB would add at least 0.2-0.3 ypc to the 'ordinary' production of those two. So you don't *need* a dominant OL to have a respectable ground game, especially since a healthy Beckham pretty much guarantees 7 man fronts, at least until the Giants show they can't be stopped on the ground.
That being said, I disagree with the Barkley pick. I like his skill set, but I don't think he's special enough to warrant being picked that high. I also think the RBs need to be interchangebale due to the high risk of injury. If there is an OL or a DL that is the same value pointwise, I'd rather go that route. Everyone says we won't be limited in spending but I dont think that will be true, especially when we see what FAs like Norwell will command in the open market.
They have Gallman, Perkins, add Ronald Jones later in the draft. Or Michel, or Penny.
If they pass on a QB, they might have to pay a kings ransom to be in this position again to acquire a QB.
Of course, they need to really feel strongly about Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Mayfield to pick the right guy.
But drafting a position is a bad idea.
BTW, with the exception of Fournette,there are no highly drafted runners who are playing Sunday. You don't need great runners to win the Super Bowl.
If you are going to use that as your anti-RB claim, you have to say that QBs don't need to be taken early either.
But drafting a position is a bad idea.
+1 They need to add at least two decent-good starters in FA plus a re-sign of either Pugh or Fluker imo.
If they pass on a QB, they might have to pay a kings ransom to be in this position again to acquire a QB.
Of course, they need to really feel strongly about Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Mayfield to pick the right guy.
Totally agree with this. Everyone loves Eli, it doesn’t make you a bad fan to realize he has very little left. Unless the Giants think that all the QBs are not good, QB has to be the pick. Yes they could trade down or something but going with the assumption we stay at 2. Take a QB and start building.
Quote:
What about this?
Gettleman gets Norwell from Carolina in FA.
1st Round - Barkley
2nd Round - Price
That has to improve the ground game significantly, no?
And assuming you throw Pugh to RT or LT? Yes I think that OL is better. Flowers still in the picture though AND you are gonna have a ton of money wrapped up in to Pugh/Norwell.
Who is going to play RT/LT for the games that Pugh sits out due to injury? This year he managed 8 games. We need someone that can be counted on.
Gettleman will pick up some offensive line pieces in FA, and I'm sure he will take a strong look at the lineman in the second. But if Smith is there in the 2nd and he is higher on your board then the lineman, pull the plug on Smith. He seems like a talented backer, something we haven't had since Antonio Pierce.
This roster can use talent at every position. Take the talent when you get offered it.
Agreed.
BTW, do you have the other top runners ranked that far behind Barkley?
Quote:
In comment 13795553 Emlen'sGremlins said:
Quote:
What about this?
Gettleman gets Norwell from Carolina in FA.
1st Round - Barkley
2nd Round - Price
That has to improve the ground game significantly, no?
And assuming you throw Pugh to RT or LT? Yes I think that OL is better. Flowers still in the picture though AND you are gonna have a ton of money wrapped up in to Pugh/Norwell.
Who is going to play RT/LT for the games that Pugh sits out due to injury? This year he managed 8 games. We need someone that can be counted on.
Excellent point re Pugh. Counting on him is fraught with risk of injury. And simply isn't tha good that you commit big $$ and years to him.
That said, if the worst case scenario for the Giants is a potential All-Pro RB, I'm not going to lose any sleep.
Keep in mind we have a high 2nd and high 3rd round pick -
which I imagine there will be plenty of OL in the mix for those selections. There will be top 45-60 ranked players available when we are picking in the 3rd round.
As of now, I'm leaning towards the following:
1. Sign 1 or 2 starting caliber or better OL in free agency
2. Draft Barkley at 2
3. Focus on LB/DE/OL in rounds 2-4
LT: Draftee/ Penn
LG: Norwell
C: Richburg
RG: Fluker
RT: Flowers
The following year will be used to remedy any further OL shortcomings. The point for next season is to stabilize the line and point it in a forward direction. It may be too much to expect that it can be fixed in one year, regardless of what the Vikings have done.
Emlen'sGremlins said:
Quote:
What about this?
Gettleman gets Norwell from Carolina in FA.
1st Round - Barkley
2nd Round - Price
That has to improve the ground game significantly, no?
And assuming you throw Pugh to RT or LT? Yes I think that OL is better. Flowers still in the picture though AND you are gonna have a ton of money wrapped up in to Pugh/Norwell. [/quote]
I love Smith...but at 2 with Rosen, Barkley, Chubb on the board...that's a really tough sell. If we traded back to the 7-12 range - Smith would be a fantastic pick there.
RB contracts - ( New Window )
Two paths:
Move on, draft a QB at #2, find a way to unload Eli's 22M cap number to rebuild, sign OBJ and LC.
Stay with ELi, strengthen the OL in FA, draft Barkley at #2 and use the next round to get more competition at OL, an edge rusher & get some fast LBs in here. Trade down if the value is so great you can improve 3 to 4 positions.....two #1s and Two #2s....it could be the usual bullshit but a lot of people are saying Barkley is the best player in the draft.
I still think the opinion that Gettlman and Shurmer have regarding Davis Webb has great importance. But they need to shit or get off the pot! Pick a direction and go all in no matter who's feelings it hurts.
- Drafting a RB that high just seems foolish to me. I'm not comparing Barkley and McCaffrey, but all we heard last year was how McCaffrey was this amazing prospect, yet the "gap" between him and Kumara, Kareem Hunt, and even a Tarik Cohen doesn't seem to have been worth using such a valuable pick on a RB.
I feel like people are searching for reasons not to draft a QB, but I like all 3 of these guys. I also think we have a really good situation for a young QB to grow into without being thrown to the wolves or searching for weapons when he eventually does play. It also doesn't help that I don't love any of the other prospects. The best OL by a mile is Nelson. Chubb is really good, but I don't think that's the right fit. I like Fitzpatrick, but I don't see him as a special prospect.
The thing with Barkley is he runs back kicks, can go out into the slot, he blocks, and he breaks big runs, a lot of them. BUT IF WE CAN'T BLOCK, HOW GOOD WILL HE BE?????
Like all have you have been saying....they need to get it right!
So I am just looking through glasses built upon what I call the Gettleman Creed. Run the ball, stop the run, rush the passer (and kick some ass in the process).
So I think Barkley in Round 1 fits that creed. A lot of positions fit the creed. Some do not fit as well. Such as WR or CB or S. So mentally I am ruling out those positions at the second pick in the draft.
On to round 2. Does Roquan Smith make sense? Well, I think he fits quite nicely.
I live in Atlanta so I saw a lot of UGA football this year. Obviously I'm not scouting expert. What I saw is a guy who loves to play, flies around, super competitive, and makes big time hits, without getting hurt. From my amateurish perspective, this is a guy who fits in beautifully with "stop the run" and also "rush the passer". He blitzed quite nicely at times.
Run the ball, stop the run, rush the passer.
Not all our Offensive Lineman are bad players. Gettleman said that in his press conference. Injuries killed us. Pugh, Richburg and Fluker, with Jones as a backup are not a bad interior group ad they might not get big $$$s. Flowers looked like he was getting better but he regressed. I'd love Norwell, the FA guard from Carolina but he might get huge money.
But, Sy is spot on, if they can solidify the OL in Free Agency they will get a lot more alternatives instead of reaching for OLs in the draft. A few years back we went into the draft saying we had to draft a tackle and that has not turned out so well.