I need to see more of him but Darnold with a cold football makes me nervous and does Rosen's concussion problems. If Rosen checks out physically, I would go with him.
I believe that Eli has at least 2 years left if Shurmur is our HC and I believe that Davis Webb can be developed in our future starter.
I'm just curious as to what he has done to give you such conviction? He couldn't beat out Geno Smith for the #2 spot all season and there were several concerns about his deep accuracy, mechanics, and ability to read defenses. What concerns me is that Webb has all these issues despite being the son of a football coach. I know this kid works very hard and has the work ethic to be great I just don't think he has the ability to ever be more than a capable backup. Passing on a QB because of Davis Webb would be absurd.
Webb's sole usefulness will be as a career backup. Even sitting a year, he'll be nowhere near being able to unseat a draftee, nor will he get the chance absent an injury.
I would give a slight edge to Darnold with Allen a close second. If it wasn't for the concussion's and shoulder injury I would have Rosen as my top choice. I am a big fan of Mayfield but I just don't see the Giants taking him.
I would give a slight edge to Darnold with Allen a close second. If it wasn't for the concussion's and shoulder injury I would have Rosen as my top choice. I am a big fan of Mayfield but I just don't see the Giants taking him.
This is exactly how I feel. Darnold followed by Allen for the reasons you stated
I will defer to combine performance.
I would test them all in 30 degree windy conditions. The thing that concerns me is both Rosen and Darnold are California boys through and through.
Yes, Rogers and Eli were warm weather exceptions,but definitely something to consider in decision.
He may be the best QB of the bunch. But is he going to flourish under the hot lights of NY? I am thinking that he will not.
It has to be a good fit. Roethlisberger is probably physically a better QB than Eli. But he would have been a disaster in NY. And he was my guy in 2004 (Miami U alum).
I think the injury things are not as big as people are making them seem. He is an incredibly smart kid, the most pro ready, and has shown he has the skills to compete at this level. No QB in this class is as accurate as him period. Coach him up on how to take a hit and protect himself better, Eli would be a good mentor for that.
I believe that Eli has at least 2 years left if Shurmur is our HC and I believe that Davis Webb can be developed in our future starter.
I'm just curious as to what he has done to give you such conviction? He couldn't beat out Geno Smith for the #2 spot all season and there were several concerns about his deep accuracy, mechanics, and ability to read defenses. What concerns me is that Webb has all these issues despite being the son of a football coach. I know this kid works very hard and has the work ethic to be great I just don't think he has the ability to ever be more than a capable backup. Passing on a QB because of Davis Webb would be absurd.
Couldn't beat out Geno Smith??? He was never given the opportunity. The whole way this team and roster were put together this past year was pathetic. With Eli's history of not missing time Webb should have been the backup. Geno smith being the backup because we might need a VET QB to take us to the playoffs if Eli got hurt was beyond stupid. Webb was basically moth balled the whole year.
I think he will prove to be the best QB over time. Looks like a Big Ben clone to me. Looked at some of his games on YouTube, his completion percentage is low in large part due to the amount of times he has to throw the ball away. His accuracy was generally good and his arm is incredible.
I believe that Eli has at least 2 years left if Shurmur is our HC and I believe that Davis Webb can be developed in our future starter.
I'm just curious as to what he has done to give you such conviction? He couldn't beat out Geno Smith for the #2 spot all season and there were several concerns about his deep accuracy, mechanics, and ability to read defenses. What concerns me is that Webb has all these issues despite being the son of a football coach. I know this kid works very hard and has the work ethic to be great I just don't think he has the ability to ever be more than a capable backup. Passing on a QB because of Davis Webb would be absurd.
I agree that there is some risk...I just don't agree with all the critique of Davis Webb...I think he has way more promise to develop under a HC who knows how to maximize his abilities and if we are not able to pick a QB in the future then it's because Eli flourished under Shurmur. If that happens then please tell me how we all know Davis won't do the same.
He's not perfect, but neither are the other guys. And none of the other guys have a trait that is as high level as Jackson's athleticism.
If Shurmur is indeed the next coach, he appears to be as qualified as anyone to design an offense tailored to the quarterback's strength. Given that, why not take the quarterback with the best strength?
He was number one out of HS for a reason, as best I can tell. When he's out of pads at the combine, it's going to be obvious that his "frame" is easily NFL QB caliber.
Darnold or Allen I'd be OK with, but there's a nag about lack of experience/pedigree. Mayfield or Jackson would be stomach-drops.
Davis Webb, but only if groomed for 2 more seasons Â
to make a decision on these guys before the all-star games, their personal workouts, and the combine.
Is Mayfield really 6"1'?
How fast is Jackson?
How strong are all of their arms?
How accurate are all of them in head to head passing drills?
Will Rosen's shoulder pass in his physical? Heck, will he get a concussion when he steps on the scale?
No one knows the full story on any of these guys until they go through these evaluations.
Might be more fruitful to start digging for developmental types like Brandon Silvers and Riley Ferguson, who can be had in the 3rd round.
What is it about individual drills that you learn that you can't learn from watching them play against live competition?
The combine workouts are finishing touches to a resume. It shouldn't be a reason to change your mind from everything you thought you knew based on real games.
Things like medical stuff are the obvious exception, but are we really still putting much stock in athletic tests outside of a game and without any equipment on? If Barkley runs a bad 40, he's suddenly not a really good back?
If we are stupid enough to let Eli play for us for 2 more years Â
I haven't watched more than three or four games for most of them (none with Allen), and I think seeing all of them in more standardized conditions and getting accurate physical stats can answer a lot of questions. Maybe for some of these QBs their combine, workout and all-star game performances (game and practice) won't significantly change their evaluations but it sure has for many players in years past.
Not saying that it's not fun to discuss, but some of the earnestness in some of these stated choices is a little dumbfounding to me at this early point.
I haven't watched more than three or four games for most of them (none with Allen), and I think seeing all of them in more standardized conditions and getting accurate physical stats can answer a lot of questions. Maybe for some of these QBs their combine, workout and all-star game performances (game and practice) won't significantly change their evaluations but it sure has for many players in years past.
Not saying that it's not fun to discuss, but some of the earnestness in some of these stated choices is a little dumbfounding to me at this early point.
Doesn't have the health/personality concerns that Rosen has which scares me away from drafting Rosen at 2. And I think sitting behind Eli and learning from him for at least a year would do wonders for Darnold.
It's way too early in the process to choose now. Â
I want to see Rosen's measurements at the combine. I'd like to see Allen at the Senior Bowl. Based on what I know now and have seen, Darnold is the clear-cut choice, but there's a lot that can happen between now and the draft.
i dont hate that idea
3. Baker Mayfield
4. Josh Rosen
5. Lamar Jackson
I'm just curious as to what he has done to give you such conviction? He couldn't beat out Geno Smith for the #2 spot all season and there were several concerns about his deep accuracy, mechanics, and ability to read defenses. What concerns me is that Webb has all these issues despite being the son of a football coach. I know this kid works very hard and has the work ethic to be great I just don't think he has the ability to ever be more than a capable backup. Passing on a QB because of Davis Webb would be absurd.
This is exactly how I feel. Darnold followed by Allen for the reasons you stated
FatMan in Charlotte : 8:56 am : link : reply
to amass picks and take Jackson.
^^^^^
This
I would test them all in 30 degree windy conditions. The thing that concerns me is both Rosen and Darnold are California boys through and through.
Yes, Rogers and Eli were warm weather exceptions,but definitely something to consider in decision.
It has to be a good fit. Roethlisberger is probably physically a better QB than Eli. But he would have been a disaster in NY. And he was my guy in 2004 (Miami U alum).
In DG I trust ...
Quote:
I believe that Eli has at least 2 years left if Shurmur is our HC and I believe that Davis Webb can be developed in our future starter.
I'm just curious as to what he has done to give you such conviction? He couldn't beat out Geno Smith for the #2 spot all season and there were several concerns about his deep accuracy, mechanics, and ability to read defenses. What concerns me is that Webb has all these issues despite being the son of a football coach. I know this kid works very hard and has the work ethic to be great I just don't think he has the ability to ever be more than a capable backup. Passing on a QB because of Davis Webb would be absurd.
Couldn't beat out Geno Smith??? He was never given the opportunity. The whole way this team and roster were put together this past year was pathetic. With Eli's history of not missing time Webb should have been the backup. Geno smith being the backup because we might need a VET QB to take us to the playoffs if Eli got hurt was beyond stupid. Webb was basically moth balled the whole year.
I hope you're basing this on health, Rosen is easily the best passer, and far and away the most NFL ready.
Quote:
I believe that Eli has at least 2 years left if Shurmur is our HC and I believe that Davis Webb can be developed in our future starter.
I'm just curious as to what he has done to give you such conviction? He couldn't beat out Geno Smith for the #2 spot all season and there were several concerns about his deep accuracy, mechanics, and ability to read defenses. What concerns me is that Webb has all these issues despite being the son of a football coach. I know this kid works very hard and has the work ethic to be great I just don't think he has the ability to ever be more than a capable backup. Passing on a QB because of Davis Webb would be absurd.
I agree that there is some risk...I just don't agree with all the critique of Davis Webb...I think he has way more promise to develop under a HC who knows how to maximize his abilities and if we are not able to pick a QB in the future then it's because Eli flourished under Shurmur. If that happens then please tell me how we all know Davis won't do the same.
Mayfield too short. Allen too raw. Intrigued by Jackson and Rudolph but that would probably be a trade down scenario.
Shurmur has coached a lot of young QB's. Gives me confidence that we'll make a solid choice.
He's not perfect, but neither are the other guys. And none of the other guys have a trait that is as high level as Jackson's athleticism.
If Shurmur is indeed the next coach, he appears to be as qualified as anyone to design an offense tailored to the quarterback's strength. Given that, why not take the quarterback with the best strength?
Darnold or Allen I'd be OK with, but there's a nag about lack of experience/pedigree. Mayfield or Jackson would be stomach-drops.
Is Mayfield really 6"1'?
How fast is Jackson?
How strong are all of their arms?
How accurate are all of them in head to head passing drills?
Will Rosen's shoulder pass in his physical? Heck, will he get a concussion when he steps on the scale?
No one knows the full story on any of these guys until they go through these evaluations.
Might be more fruitful to start digging for developmental types like Brandon Silvers and Riley Ferguson, who can be had in the 3rd round.
The combine workouts are finishing touches to a resume. It shouldn't be a reason to change your mind from everything you thought you knew based on real games.
Things like medical stuff are the obvious exception, but are we really still putting much stock in athletic tests outside of a game and without any equipment on? If Barkley runs a bad 40, he's suddenly not a really good back?
If we cut Eli this offseason as we should, I would go Rosen.
Not saying that it's not fun to discuss, but some of the earnestness in some of these stated choices is a little dumbfounding to me at this early point.
Not saying that it's not fun to discuss, but some of the earnestness in some of these stated choices is a little dumbfounding to me at this early point.