I see a lot of posters starting threads about the merits of taking a QB vs. a RB, or vice versa lately. Lots of threads trying to figure out which has bigger bust potential, etc... Are you trying to convince others of the right way to go, or are you trying to convince yourself it's the right thing because you are unsure?
The truth is, the Giants are in a great position no matter how they go. I'm excited for this offseason, because in free agency and the draft we should get a good indicator of what mold they want to build the team in.
If they take a QB, then great, it will be because they have total conviction that he's worth the 2nd pick.
Hopefully they find the guy that will be Eli's successor. If they don't then they weren't sold on any of these guys and we have to respect that.
If they take a RB or some other position, then that's great too because it means they feel they have the pieces to win now and turn it around quickly.
They are going to take the best player on their board. And with the number two pick overall, you almost have to do that. The pick absolutely cannot be forced.
Honestly, you can make the case for a lot of things here, including a trade down, but that doesn't mean that any one solution is right and the other is wrong. This offseason will tell us a lot about what type of football team they are building.
If you draft Barkley, you think Eli has 2 years left and by acquiring OL in the draft and FA, you can make a deep playoff run with a healthy defense and satisfy the fans that had to endure the 2017 season...and the years prior when nothing was done to fix the OL and running game.
Remember, Mara already said he thinks the team has talent and teams go from last to first many times. He's not looking to blow this whole roster up and rebuild. The fans won't wait 3-5 years....
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You will regret it. All the people clamoring for a QB are ignoring what Shurmur did with Keenum and can likely do with Manning and or Webb. Who's to say we don't bring Keenum over on a modest contract, hand him 2 Ferraris in Barkley and Beckham and see what happens? If Barkley doesn't go first and we pass on him, it will be a huge mistake.
I tend to agree EXCEPT on Keenum. No thanks. His Joe Hardy year is about to end. a few weeks later than Ryan Fitzpatrick's did in 2015.
Yes Keenum outside of that dome and in Metlife would be a disaster. He does not have a big arm.
To be honest, I'm happy either way.
If they pick Barkley, we get a guy who can be an immediate difference maker and can, along with a healthy Odell, push this team into contention in 2018-2019.
If they go QB, then we have a franchise QB to build around for the next decade (assuming he doesn't flop).
Get the best player here.
But the hard thing is identifying the best player. And if a few players are the same grade...?
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to go 7-9 and pick somewhere around #12 in the 2019 so we have zero chance of getting one of the top QBs in that draft unless we pay a kings ransom to move up.
That way we will only be a franchise QB away from getting into the playoffs over the next decade.
solid thinking...
Have you read the thread or just carrying over from another thread? This isn't solely about QB. It's about not forcing a pick when you have such a valuable position.
It's a lot bigger picture than you're making it out to be. There is more than one way to build a championship team. Nick Foles, Blake Bortles, and Case Keenum are all Championship starting QB's this weekend. Recent draft history shows that "the top QB's" in the draft don't always turn into the top QB's in the NFL.
Agree there are lots of ways but short-sighting it at the QB position is clearly less desirable and more risky.
And btw - Bortles was a 3rd overall and Wentz is the reason the Eagles are where they are and he was 2nd overall.
just sayin' as you continue your Eli Manning protectionism views...
Well...not sure if Eli plays for us two more years but, if he does, we might be sitting at #2 more than we want...
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In comment 13796843 lax counsel said:
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In comment 13796827 WillVAB said:
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In comment 13796804 lax counsel said:
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In comment 13796732 Britt in VA said:
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I'm not sure "franchise quarterback" means what it used to mean. I'm not even sure those guys exist anymore really. Luck is the last one I can remember being in the true franchise QB mold.
I'll tell you another reason teams may be wary of franchise QB's. When you have guys like Kirk Cousins, who are getting paid through the roof based on market value, teams may reconsider how they build their team so that that position may be more interchangeable.
Gettleman said it himself, despite the evolution, you still win in this league by running the ball, stopping the run, and rushing the passer.
Look at Jacksonville and Minny? They don't need franchise quarterback play to be successful, they just need good/smart QB play. And if they find an average to above average guy? They're in contention every year.
It exists as much as ever. This year is the exception, not the rule. I believe there are 31 qbs who have won a Super Bowl, I counted 7 that weren't franchise qbs. Over the past 15 years, how many non franchise qbs have won a sb? Look no further than last years final 4, which was more the norm of qb talent level.
The true franchise QBs are getting long in the tooth. The league is littered with more of the Marriotta type QBs than Drew Brees or Brady type.
Historical data doesn’t mean much until all of the true franchise type guys hang em up.
Seems like that is said every time a group of franchise qbs retires. Whether it was the guys in the 70s, the class of 83, manning/Brady/brees, the 2004 class- it's always the same sentiment, era of franchise qb is over. There will be a new class of truly franchise qbs in the coming years just like there always are. Perhaps the start is the 2018 class. It will never go away in this league. It's a tried and tested method to having a shot at a sb. Yes, there will be years where a truly dominant defenses can carry you, it's just not al that often.
I think you are severely discounting the proliferation of the spread offense in college football.
Spread offenses have always been around. We will agree to disagree. It just seems like every time an outgoing group of qbs retires, we hear about the end of the franchise qb. When Aikman, Marino, Montana, Young, Farve and co hung it up, we saw a brief period where you could get by with Kerry Collins, Trent dilfer, and Brad Johnson. Then, the manning brothers emerged, Ben, Brady, and Brees.
I think we're seeing that late 1990s early 2000s right now, where an ok qb can get you by. But I think we ll see an uptick back with top qbs. We're already starting to see it with Goff and Wentz. I think the 2018 class just furthers the next generation of great qbs.
The reason we haven't seen a lot of great qbs Over the last decade come out, is because they just don't come out very often. It's always been that way. That's why if you see one you grab one.
If you can’t see the difference between college QBs coming out now and college QBs 20 years ago I don’t know what to tell you.
There’s a lot of pressure on these college coaches to win, so they recruit sick athletes to play QB in a simple offense. That’s what the NFL is drawing from now.
If this is true, then there’s a lot of merit to building a sick roster and look for an ok QB who can play within the system.
The gap between elite/good QBs and the rest of the league was substantial 10 years ago. When you look at the league today, is there really a big difference between Cam and Winston?
If you draft Barkley, you think Eli has 2 years left and by acquiring OL in the draft and FA, you can make a deep playoff run with a healthy defense and satisfy the fans that had to endure the 2017 season...and the years prior when nothing was done to fix the OL and running game.
Remember, Mara already said he thinks the team has talent and teams go from last to first many times. He's not looking to blow this whole roster up and rebuild. The fans won't wait 3-5 years....
I'm not buying your line of reasoning. If the Giants take a QB at 2, it's because they believe he can be a very good, if not a franchise QB. It has nothing to do with how they feel about Eli. They could very well feel Eli has a year or two left, and want to start molding the draft pick toward becoming the starter. As far as Webb goes, they probably don't know at this point, what they have in him.
Taking Barkley at 2, doesn't mean they think Eli has a year or two left in the tank. It means they don't believe any of the draftable QBs warrant that pick.
to those who say "but he that he didn't get enough protection", my question is : did SF O-line get better when Garapolo(sp?) started?
we need an upgrade at the QB position.
Teams may go from a losing record to a winning record in one year, because some players become one year wonders and usually you get a weak schedule.....but what happens the next year, and the next and the next?
If you want to go from 6-10 to 11-5 and be one and done, yes that can be achieved.....and then you can fall back to 3-13 the next year.....time for a GM to make the hard decisions, and build a team, instead of all the quick fixes we have had the last 6 seasons.....
Just like Ernie Accorsi did in '98, picking "Mr. Potential" (Shaun Williams) instead of this guy ...
Alan Faneca (eventual 8 time ALL PRO)
Nelson is a BEAST, (very much Faneca's equal) ALL the scouts know it, but it will be up to the GMs who get a shot at him to screw-up and not draft him
I'm not buying your line of reasoning. If the Giants take a QB at 2, it's because they believe he can be a very good, if not a franchise QB. It has nothing to do with how they feel about Eli. They could very well feel Eli has a year or two left, and want to start molding the draft pick toward becoming the starter. As far as Webb goes, they probably don't know at this point, what they have in him.
Taking Barkley at 2, doesn't mean they think Eli has a year or two left in the tank. It means they don't believe any of the draftable QBs warrant that pick. [/quote]
Paesan, it means exactly that. Mara doesn't want to wait 3-5 years to get to the playoffs or win another championship--it's not good for business and after witnessing the poor product from last season. He wants to get to the playoffs this coming season. So what's broken? OL and ZERO running game. Fix both of those and with our WR corps (sans the former Jet)and a healthy defense that isn't consistently on the field every game, the Giants can make a run.
Unless the Giants tank again, or have another season slew of injuries, I doubt you will see Webb or anyone else playing under center during the regular season game, unless Eli gets injured or the score of a game is beyond winning or losing the contest.