Any WRs on the FA market or possibly late round draft picks that could compliment OBJ in the passing game? Lot's of talk Marshall will be gone. Just curious to see who could possibly be a viable option.
Obviously if a good FA is there for cheap money you take a look, but without knowing what $$$????
Decker got 4mil
Kenny Stills, Garcon, Jones all got almost 10mil
Robert Woods, even though i like him got 8mil, and i would consider him average with upside.
Torrey Smith at 5 mil
For comparison, Spotrac is projecting that RB L Bell is in line for 10mil/yr, i bet he get 14 mil though.
Either way I'd pay 2-4mil more for Bell than to have Stills Garcon or Jones on my roster.
Steve Smith would have been a perfect compliment Â
Obviously if a good FA is there for cheap money you take a look, but without knowing what $$$????
Decker got 4mil
Kenny Stills, Garcon, Jones all got almost 10mil
Robert Woods, even though i like him got 8mil, and i would consider him average with upside.
Torrey Smith at 5 mil
For comparison, Spotrac is projecting that RB L Bell is in line for 10mil/yr, i bet he get 14 mil though.
Either way I'd pay 2-4mil more for Bell than to have Stills Garcon or Jones on my roster.
+1 I'd rather give Marshall a small pay cut and keep him around.
I think we have 2 legitimate WRs in Beckham and Shepherd but I was not impressed with any others including King. I think they had a couple of moments but not overly impressive at least to play a lot. As a number 4/5 fine but not a number 3.
could be a buy low candidate??? All about the $$$ though.
"The 24-year-old former third-rounder has gobs of talent but has frustrated and disappeared at times. He may have to settle for a one-year, prove-it deal in free agency and likely won't be back with the Colts." Link - ( New Window )
In camp. I suspect he may have hated Ben M. I do think Shepard is definitely a high end 2 even if a slot guy. Keep Lewis and King around other places to invest like the o line and run game and watch how much better these receivers will look. Also Ellison will be on field more hopefully reducing the need for 3 and 4 wr personnel.
just didn't play enough during the preseason, and when he got out in the regular season games, the rust showed. By the time our offense started moving all our WRs went down with injuries.
Marshall is complete wild card at this point. He could have something in the tank or he could be toast.
just didn't play enough during the preseason, and when he got out in the regular season games, the rust showed. By the time our offense started moving all our WRs went down with injuries.
Marshall is complete wild card at this point. He could have something in the tank or he could be toast.
And the question is do you tie up $5m to find out? I wouldn't.
Schurmer will likely have the following group out there as I anticipate the Giants continue to run an 11 personnel package (3 WRs, 1 TE, 1 RB) as the Giant OC ran an "11" almost 70%:
- OBJ & Engram at WRs
- Shep at slot
- Ellison at TE (with the OL woes, he will be out on the field more than 2017, if just to check block a DE or Will/SAM). It's a waste to put Engram at TE. He's not a great blocker to seal off, but is an exceptional downfield blocker. Jerrell Adams is the other TE if they run a "12" personnel package (2 TE, 2 WR, 1 RB)
- Gallman or (hopefully) Saquon Barkley at RB. Gallman reminds me of Tiki before his realizing holding the Duke High & Tight was required...
Engram isn't, nor will ever become a typical TE but he is a tall, very fast WR who can jump. Shep isn't as tall, but fast enough and can jump high enough to play WR. Both these guys are good downfield blockers as well.
Rudolph or Powe "could" be the last WR...whoever wins the KO/Punt return duties is likely to be the final WR since it's unlikely Gettleman resigns D.Harris (cap). One of those two rookies (or maybe new roster addition would be the 4th WR in a "10" personnel package (4WR, no TE)--or one could spread Barkley out as a WR and have Gallman in at RB--if his pass blocking improves.
With Eli and Barkley and FA/Draft additions to the OL giving Eli at least 3.2 seconds to throw, barring injury, no NFL defense should be able to cover that personnel group of WRs/TE/RBs...
just didn't play enough during the preseason, and when he got out in the regular season games, the rust showed. By the time our offense started moving all our WRs went down with injuries.
Marshall is complete wild card at this point. He could have something in the tank or he could be toast.
And the question is do you tie up $5m to find out? I wouldn't.
Maybe DG asks him to take a pay cut, I think that's the only way he stays.
We've got to get out of the mindset of what we've seen for so long. I was listening to Greg Cosell on the radio yesterday and he put Shurmur's offense in the category of the Rams and Patriots in terms of scheme creativity for it's WRs. A Brandon Marshall/Plaxico-type really isn't a great fit for that. Guys who run terrific routes and get in and out of breaks quickly are the best fits.
With a TE and DT strong draft, you look for units to maximize.
I like the idea, for example, of running 12P with a legit big two way TEdraft pick1, ellison2 and EE as a large slot left.
That's a lot of extra potential run blockers and mismatch tall receiving options. Now, when you do run outside...legit chance to break one long w EE blocking a smaller DB.
Same at DT...your not 'set'. You look to build an outlier unit....something different and better. Duplicate Harrison...and Ellison.. Now you have team.
In comment 13797168 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
[quote] We've got to get out of the mindset of what we've seen for so long. I was listening to Greg Cosell on the radio yesterday and he put Shurmur's offense in the category of the Rams and Patriots in terms of scheme creativity for it's WRs.
You might want to read this (link attached) from a Seahawk fan. Seems most of the NFL is running an 11 package...
or read this which details a ton of statistical analysis:
Our future HC offense (Minn) boasts a 57% frequency of an "11" personnel package...js. I doubt he has the receivers the Giants have...he just has a good OL!!
Shepard was pretty good given he missed so much time and was in a shit design offense. Don’t think your assessment of a sophomore slump is far at all.
Given Engram as a TE will line up wide often he can play in the slot and this is a pretty damn good trio to throw to in addition to Ellison seeing more pt.
Our future HC offense (Minn) boasts a 57% frequency of an "11" personnel package...js. I doubt he has the receivers the Giants have...he just has a good OL!!
Trends in NFL Offenses Personnel Groups - ( New Window )
You seem to be talking about personnel groups... I'm talking about the types of patterns and formations teams like the Rams, Patriots, and Vikings use whose primary purpose is to free up individual receivers. For them, large possession receivers aren't a necessity.
I'd like to see Brandon Marshall here in a different offense. I still think he can contribute, and his contract is manageable. I don't think there's any risk to keeping him for another season.
Both Latimer and Moncrief are under 25 and wont be expensive. Both have flashed but not consistently. They will not get huge contracts. Definitely do not want to see King or Lewis as the starting Z.
RE: Supposedly it's a very strong tight end draft Â
He's your wildcard, I don't think we need to define him as one or the other. While I don't agree with "just make Engram your possession WR" he does mitigate the need for having a big possession WR in a defined role. There's no reason why he can't get involved more on the perimeter to serve that purpose when needed.
Our future HC offense (Minn) boasts a 57% frequency of an "11" personnel package...js. I doubt he has the receivers the Giants have...he just has a good OL!!
Trends in NFL Offenses Personnel Groups - ( New Window )
You seem to be talking about personnel groups... I'm talking about the types of patterns and formations teams like the Rams, Patriots, and Vikings use whose primary purpose is to free up individual receivers. For them, large possession receivers aren't a necessity.
You mean our starting TE?
Sterling Shepard is a slot WR. They have had ample opportunities to put him somewhere else on the field, but have not done so.
We can definitely upgrade from King.
And my question is what other options are out there?
That might be a major value play in say 5th round, if you consider EE a first round quality WR....you get value.
Obviously if a good FA is there for cheap money you take a look, but without knowing what $$$????
Decker got 4mil
Kenny Stills, Garcon, Jones all got almost 10mil
Robert Woods, even though i like him got 8mil, and i would consider him average with upside.
Torrey Smith at 5 mil
For comparison, Spotrac is projecting that RB L Bell is in line for 10mil/yr, i bet he get 14 mil though.
Either way I'd pay 2-4mil more for Bell than to have Stills Garcon or Jones on my roster.
Obviously if a good FA is there for cheap money you take a look, but without knowing what $$$????
Decker got 4mil
Kenny Stills, Garcon, Jones all got almost 10mil
Robert Woods, even though i like him got 8mil, and i would consider him average with upside.
Torrey Smith at 5 mil
For comparison, Spotrac is projecting that RB L Bell is in line for 10mil/yr, i bet he get 14 mil though.
Either way I'd pay 2-4mil more for Bell than to have Stills Garcon or Jones on my roster.
+1 I'd rather give Marshall a small pay cut and keep him around.
Brice Butler (BIG WR from Dallas)
Dontrelle Inman (Another tall target)
Marquis Lee and Allen Robinson from Jax will both be FAs, but both will be expensive
We are set at TE.
"The 24-year-old former third-rounder has gobs of talent but has frustrated and disappeared at times. He may have to settle for a one-year, prove-it deal in free agency and likely won't be back with the Colts."
Link - ( New Window )
I can't possibly recommend bringing him back at his age and apparent disinterest.
LAZARD
6-5
223
At his age, I'm not too confident in a full recovery.
LAZARD
6-5
223
Ramses Barden??
At his age, I'm not too confident in a full recovery.
True but at least he ais polished and never really got open because of his speed. He can still be a 3rd down/red zone guy at a much lower price
Marshall is complete wild card at this point. He could have something in the tank or he could be toast.
Marshall is complete wild card at this point. He could have something in the tank or he could be toast.
And the question is do you tie up $5m to find out? I wouldn't.
- OBJ & Engram at WRs
- Shep at slot
- Ellison at TE (with the OL woes, he will be out on the field more than 2017, if just to check block a DE or Will/SAM). It's a waste to put Engram at TE. He's not a great blocker to seal off, but is an exceptional downfield blocker. Jerrell Adams is the other TE if they run a "12" personnel package (2 TE, 2 WR, 1 RB)
- Gallman or (hopefully) Saquon Barkley at RB. Gallman reminds me of Tiki before his realizing holding the Duke High & Tight was required...
Engram isn't, nor will ever become a typical TE but he is a tall, very fast WR who can jump. Shep isn't as tall, but fast enough and can jump high enough to play WR. Both these guys are good downfield blockers as well.
Rudolph or Powe "could" be the last WR...whoever wins the KO/Punt return duties is likely to be the final WR since it's unlikely Gettleman resigns D.Harris (cap). One of those two rookies (or maybe new roster addition would be the 4th WR in a "10" personnel package (4WR, no TE)--or one could spread Barkley out as a WR and have Gallman in at RB--if his pass blocking improves.
With Eli and Barkley and FA/Draft additions to the OL giving Eli at least 3.2 seconds to throw, barring injury, no NFL defense should be able to cover that personnel group of WRs/TE/RBs...
SS is a slot receiver.....and he did not step up this year like I hoped......and he also couldn't stay on the field....Sophomore slump? I hope so.....
This offense needs OLmen, a RB, starting wide out, and depth....
And then, which direction are we going with, with that first pick.....
I'm wondering if a guy like Mike Wallace would fit the bill. I have no idea if he's an outside guy or a slot.
Quote:
just didn't play enough during the preseason, and when he got out in the regular season games, the rust showed. By the time our offense started moving all our WRs went down with injuries.
Marshall is complete wild card at this point. He could have something in the tank or he could be toast.
And the question is do you tie up $5m to find out? I wouldn't.
Maybe DG asks him to take a pay cut, I think that's the only way he stays.
With a TE and DT strong draft, you look for units to maximize.
I like the idea, for example, of running 12P with a legit big two way TEdraft pick1, ellison2 and EE as a large slot left.
That's a lot of extra potential run blockers and mismatch tall receiving options. Now, when you do run outside...legit chance to break one long w EE blocking a smaller DB.
Same at DT...your not 'set'. You look to build an outlier unit....something different and better. Duplicate Harrison...and Ellison.. Now you have team.
[quote] We've got to get out of the mindset of what we've seen for so long. I was listening to Greg Cosell on the radio yesterday and he put Shurmur's offense in the category of the Rams and Patriots in terms of scheme creativity for it's WRs.
You might want to read this (link attached) from a Seahawk fan. Seems most of the NFL is running an 11 package...
or read this which details a ton of statistical analysis:
https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/personnel-grouping-frequency.html
Our future HC offense (Minn) boasts a 57% frequency of an "11" personnel package...js. I doubt he has the receivers the Giants have...he just has a good OL!!
Trends in NFL Offenses Personnel Groups - ( New Window )
Saying it's what people do is fairly meaningless.
Given Engram as a TE will line up wide often he can play in the slot and this is a pretty damn good trio to throw to in addition to Ellison seeing more pt.
You might want to read this (link attached) from a Seahawk fan. Seems most of the NFL is running an 11 package...
or read this which details a ton of statistical analysis:
https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/personnel-grouping-frequency.html
Our future HC offense (Minn) boasts a 57% frequency of an "11" personnel package...js. I doubt he has the receivers the Giants have...he just has a good OL!!
Trends in NFL Offenses Personnel Groups - ( New Window )
You seem to be talking about personnel groups... I'm talking about the types of patterns and formations teams like the Rams, Patriots, and Vikings use whose primary purpose is to free up individual receivers. For them, large possession receivers aren't a necessity.
Excellent blocker. plus if you throw him the ball he CATCHES it.
I got in trouble, here, suggesting Engram as our possession receiver; I still think he could excel in that role.
I wanted Marquise Goodwin when he left Buffalo. He would have been perfect.
Excellent blocker. plus if you throw him the ball he CATCHES it.
I got in trouble, here, suggesting Engram as our possession receiver; I still think he could excel in that role.
In limited time (including preseason) he was a very dependable possession receiver.
Or find another Brandon Lafell, there are possession guys out there who can be had.
To be honest this might be marginalized if they go 3 wide with Engram/OBJ outside and Shepherd in the slot, who knows.
Do not devote serious resources here.
That might be a major value play in say 5th round, if you consider EE a first round quality WR....you get value.
Agree we could move Engram to WR and draft The TE from Oklahoma
Really can’t believe the criticism of Shepard. He was 19th in ypg.
There is a damn good trio here of receivers let’s focus on the fact Giants have major major needs in rebuilding o line lbs and secondary.
Another receiver seems like a low priority.
Quote:
What I was saying is the personnel groups (strengths/weaknesses) dictate the routes run in a WCO.
You might want to read this (link attached) from a Seahawk fan. Seems most of the NFL is running an 11 package...
or read this which details a ton of statistical analysis:
https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/personnel-grouping-frequency.html
Our future HC offense (Minn) boasts a 57% frequency of an "11" personnel package...js. I doubt he has the receivers the Giants have...he just has a good OL!!
Trends in NFL Offenses Personnel Groups - ( New Window )
You seem to be talking about personnel groups... I'm talking about the types of patterns and formations teams like the Rams, Patriots, and Vikings use whose primary purpose is to free up individual receivers. For them, large possession receivers aren't a necessity.