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Question re: the future of this defense

Chris684 : 1/19/2018 10:57 am
Sometimes I am very surprised by BBI. If we go back to December, the calls for a total house cleaning were loud and clear by the majority of this board.

The very first time, and throughout the coaching search when the connection was made between Shurmur and Spagnuolo, I have been afraid they are a package deal. Now obviously, nothing is set in stone yet (not even Shurmur), but I still can't help but feel like John Mara knows deep down Shurmur will keep Spags on and that it makes him feel safe.

I'm not anti-Spagnuolo. I think for the most part the guy can coach a talented defense. The question becomes what he does with less talent. I think he did everything asked of a guy thrown into a tough interim role this past season. However, there is a lot of failure accumulating on his resume to the point that I don't know if his career would be anything more than position coach other than with NYG. That worries me.

Ideally, we would get rid of some of the characters on the defensive side of the ball. But if we are going to try to reach them, wouldnt a different voice make sense? Are we going to cover tight ends next season if Spags returns? This defense came up really small when things still mattered and before injuries set in (@ Philly, @ Tampa).

If you are a proponent of a Spags return, or even if you're just ho-hum about the idea. Tell me what I'm missing. Not confident in a better option? Is it that you like Shurmur so much you're willing to give Spags another shot?

I love Spags and what he did in 07, 08 and 16....  
Emlen'sGremlins : 1/19/2018 11:01 am : link
....but he's got to go. A new voice is desperately needed. I'm hoping that Shurmur can bring his DC from Minny whose contract is up after this season.
the future of this defense is the same as the recent past.  
Victor in CT : 1/19/2018 11:03 am : link
If as the scuttlebutt says Spags is staying, an occasional year of effectiveness surrounded by mutliples years of horror shows.
It would almost be criminal to  
RottenApple : 1/19/2018 11:08 am : link
remain status quo on the defensive side. They were pathetic prior to the injuries and full of malcontents. How does Spags not get blamed for their pitiful actions and lack of desire? He is the leader of the defense. He should have been canned when those other 2 boobs were dismissed.
Question re: TEs  
njm : 1/19/2018 11:12 am : link
Was that a result of Spags design of the defense or the personel he was given to run it?

Right now I'm agnostic on his retention.
RE: It would almost be criminal to  
Victor in CT : 1/19/2018 11:18 am : link
In comment 13796724 RottenApple said:
Quote:
remain status quo on the defensive side. They were pathetic prior to the injuries and full of malcontents. How does Spags not get blamed for their pitiful actions and lack of desire? He is the leader of the defense. He should have been canned when those other 2 boobs were dismissed.


You said it brother!
I’m sure coordinator candidates were discussed with each HC prospect.  
Ivan15 : 1/19/2018 11:26 am : link
My fear is that Shurmur was selected because of his DC choice.
The way I hear it  
Peppers : 1/19/2018 11:31 am : link
And this could just be speculation but the talk is, Spags will remain on staff potentially as Assistant HC and a new DC will be brought on. Everyone in that building loves Spags.
Let's see what the Giants defense can do when all of their starters  
SterlingArcher : 1/19/2018 11:38 am : link
are back and healthy.
RE: Let's see what the Giants defense can do when all of their starters  
Victor in CT : 1/19/2018 11:39 am : link
In comment 13796820 SterlingArcher said:
Quote:
are back and healthy.


See weeks 1 through 4 2017. Not very impressive
I can't think of many coaches that have achieved ...  
Boy Cord : 1/19/2018 12:02 pm : link
... the highest highs and the lowest lows as Spags. It's feast or famine with him. I vote thumbs down. The defense was broken last year and there is no way we can lay it all at the feet of McAdoo.
Some questions about Spags  
Since1965 : 1/19/2018 12:22 pm : link
1. Is he so firmly entrenched in the 15 year old Jim Johnson's defense that he hasn't adapted?
2. Does he stick with the same plan even when his personnel doesn't match the ability level needed for them to succeed?
3. We don't have linebackers who can cover TE's and RB's, so why does he continue to allow them to do so without making adjustments?
4. I see very little in-game adjustments. And actually, when things start going badly, they snowball and the game gets out of control.
5. Three DB's were suspended. How much of that was on Spags? Was it McAdoo? Was it McAdoo/Spaggs?
RE: The way I hear it  
TMS : 1/19/2018 1:17 pm : link
In comment 13796803 Peppers said:
Quote:
And this could just be speculation but the talk is, Spags will remain on staff potentially as Assistant HC and a new DC will be brought on. Everyone in that building loves Spags.
Not a bad way to go since the players, management and the staff all seem too trust and like him. The Giants have the $$$ and it does not effect the cap. Great guy to have in the locker room and on the field. Shurmur could bring Edwards (who does not have a contract) along to be DC. Like the whole idea myself
the love for mascot steve is  
sundayatone : 1/19/2018 1:30 pm : link
cult like,perry fewell was just as good but is long forgotten in the bbi neighborhood.
RE: the love for mascot steve is  
Victor in CT : 1/19/2018 1:40 pm : link
In comment 13796991 sundayatone said:
Quote:
cult like,perry fewell was just as good but is long forgotten in the bbi neighborhood.


Yep, I've been hammering on that point for days. You could argue (and win) that Fewell was better. Could you imagine this place if Fewell was even mentioned as an official candidate, let alone hired?

Of course "the players love him". They run the asylum. 3 of his players were suspended this year. Might not be all his fault, but it's an indication that he doesn't "command the room".
It's hard to make  
Doomster : 1/19/2018 1:57 pm : link
adjustments when you don't have the players.....especially linebackers....

Jenkins, Snacks, and OV were huge contributors right away, in 2016....JPP had OK stats from afar, that year, but close scrutiny revealed they were, for the most part, accumulated in just a couple of games....It was our defensive backfield in 2016, that made our defense what it was.....anyone looking back at that pass rush in 2016, should not have been impressed......and the DE's did not do any better in 2017.....

Injuries and no depth, hurt this team.....also questionable play calling where we were beat deep down the middle where there was no safety help.....Spags needs the horses for his schemes to work......and for the most part, he escaped the scrutiny of the press, especially for the play of the defense, early in the year, that couldn't protect fourth quarter leads, like it could the previous year.....

Why was Mac singled out, instead of Spags, when the problems with DRC, Jenkins, and Apple arose? This is why he should not be HC.....
RE: RE: the love for mascot steve is  
sundayatone : 1/19/2018 2:40 pm : link
In comment 13797003 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 13796991 sundayatone said:


Quote:


cult like,perry fewell was just as good but is long forgotten in the bbi neighborhood.



Yep, I've been hammering on that point for days. You could argue (and win) that Fewell was better. Could you imagine this place if Fewell was even mentioned as an official candidate, let alone hired?

Of course "the players love him". They run the asylum. 3 of his players were suspended this year. Might not be all his fault, but it's an indication that he doesn't "command the room".


there is also a cult of eli,but that is a discussion for another thread.
All defenses are good when they can get to the passer......  
Simms11 : 1/19/2018 3:39 pm : link
Giants need another pass rusher (either DE or OLB). OV and JPP aren't getting it done. Spags was successful when he had a pass rush. The 2016 blitzes were getting home. LC helped the D tremendously in 2016, not only in getting turnovers and stopping the run but in blitzing, as well. The D needs a little bit more talent to bring it back to respectability. I'd prefer to move on from Spags non-the-less. I think there are plenty of very good position coaches or former DCs that can be brought in and succeed just as well if not better then Spags.
Our defense was underminded by the  
TMS : 1/19/2018 7:30 pm : link
bad moves of those who let Joseph and Hankins leave while wasting high picks on Austin and Bromley.
RE: Our defense was underminded by the  
Bruner4329 : 1/19/2018 8:05 pm : link
In comment 13797375 TMS said:
Quote:
bad moves of those who let Joseph and Hankins leave while wasting high picks on Austin and Bromley.


Not to mention the fact Reese was allergic to Linebackers.
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