There's really only 2 Running Backs on the Giants right now: Paul Perkins and Wayne Gallman. Both are very similar type backs with similar body types:
Perkins is 5'11/213 (slightly thicker) runs a 4.54,
Gallman is 6' 210 and runs a 4.6. Both are 24.
They've each had moments as rookies - and both have reasonably good receiving abilities - neither is known as a great blocker. Perkins had his moments in 2016 and Gallman in 2017, but neither has really distinguished themselves. I'd say they each had flashes.
Darkwa and
Vereen are FAs in 2018
Jalen Simmons, a former Carolina Panther and bounced around the league is also on the roster, he's smaller, thicker and a tad faster than Perkins and Gallman at 5'8" and 220lbs running a 4.5
Gettleman has to bring in at least a couple of running backs in FA if not for anything but so that he can look at the draft board and not make a knee-jerk pick at #2.
Saquon Barkley has to be in the conversation if he's not the first player off the board, he's just too good a player not to be in the discussion and I'd want perspective.
Gettleman knows a thing or two about running backs - so I'd say RB in this FA bears watching.
Who would you bring in at RB in FA this off-season knowing that a few FA RBs need to be signed?
The list of FA RBs from Walter Football is linked below.
Of the "top 11" on the linked list the most intriguing RB is:
Le'Veon Bell - whose skill set closely parallels Saquon Barkley in the coming draft, but Barkley is definitely faster. Bell's a little larger than Perkins and Gallman, his 3 cone was 6.75 faster than Gallman's (Perkins didn't complete his combine/no 3 cone). Bell may be a candidate for tagging for Pittsburgh.
Dion Lewis had a break out year this year for the Pats, and is smaller than Simmons at 5'7" 193 lbs, has terrific measurables, but not a lot of production over his rookie contract
Carlos Hyde has had a bunch of disappointing years, he's a Wayne Gallman Clone body wise
Isaiah Crowell has showed flashes and is closer in body type to Paul Perkins, but had a disappointing year
Jerick McKinnon is someone Shurmer is very familiar with - he's faster than Perkins and Gallman with a 4.41 at the Combine, and he's also smaller at 5'9" and 209 - doesn't have a tremendous amount of production under Shurmer - I would classify it as inconsistent
Alfred Morris is 28 and he started off a blazing for the Skins and has had an up and down career -- he was serviceable for the Cowboys - he's 5'10" and 219 lbs, a little more chunky than Perkins and Gallman - closer to Simmons - but much slower
Jeremy Hill, has good measurables and has a checkered past. He's 6'1" and 233 lbs with very big hands and his production has tapered off for the Bengals through the seasons
LeGarrette Blount is 31 and has moments but is coming off his least productive season.
Orleans Darkwa was arguably the Giants best running back this past year but is hardly inspiring
Here's some of the rest, none of whom is very inspiring
Christine Michael, RB, Colts. Age: 27.
Mike Davis (RFA), RB, Seahawks. Age: 25.
Jamaal Charles, RB, Broncos. Age: 31.
Charles Sims, RB, Buccaneers. Age: 27.
Branden Oliver, RB, Chargers. Age: 27.
Kenjon Barner, RB, Eagles. Age: 28.
Benny Cunningham, RB, Bears. Age: 28.
Shane Vereen, RB, Giants. Age: 29.
Alfred Blue, RB, Texans. Age: 27.
Darren Sproles, RB, Eagles. Age: 35.
Andre Ellington, RB, Texans. Age: 29.
Corey Grant (RFA), RB, Jaguars. Age: 26.
Terron Ward (RFA), RB, Falcons. Age: 26.
Kerwynn Williams, RB, Cardinals. Age: 36.
Kapri Bibbs (RFA), RB, Redskins. Age: 25.
Travaris Cadet, RB, Bills. Age: 29.
Bishop Sankey (RFA), RB, Vikings. Age: 25.
Damien Williams, RB, Dolphins. Age: 26.
Zach Zenner (RFA), RB, Lions. Age: 26.
Link - (
New Window )
Gallman is a keeper.
I thought Gallman showed much more explosiveness than Perkins, but the little success Perkins had in 2016 followed by the extremely disappointing 2017 has to give you some pause about Gallman's production.
Gallman is a keeper.
Agree, I only want to keep Gallman of the group.
Darkwa averaged 4.4 ypc and Gallman 4.3 ypc. Among RBs with >= 50 rushing attempts in 2017, those numbers would rank them 16th and 22nd in the league respectively.
In other words, a little above average.
If you don't think Bell would be a great addition to the Giants, then you should quit watching football! :-)
Yup. I think Shurmur will want a front-line starter (Bell, Barkley?) and a Hammer. Gallman can play situationally - I like him in the 2 minute, and as a potential 3rd down RB - if he can improve his blocking.
That's a pedestrian backfield.
He was slated to be the starter in 2016 - but McAddo lost patience with him in game 2 and he didn't see him on the field after that, so we really don't know what the Giants have in Perkins - but he was supposed to be pretty good
Huh? please explain? Barkley would cost about 7.25mil/yr as the #2 pick.
This draft is also loaded in talent, we can get a starting quality guy in the 3rd round maybe 4th round.
You also have to look at potential trades. Tevin Coleman will be a free agent after 2018, Atlanta might want to get a return out of him now.
Gallman is a keeper.
+1
He was slated to be the starter in 2016 - but McAddo lost patience with him in game 2 and he didn't see him on the field after that, so we really don't know what the Giants have in Perkins - but he was supposed to be pretty good
In Perkins' defense, he was also playing before Fluker (and others) were inserted into the lineup which significantly improved the run blocking. I believe Ellison became a much bigger part of the offense, and run game in particular, in the 2nd half of the season as well.
Vereen can’t think of one reason to even make a phone call except maybe to say farewell. Darkwa is who we are trying to get away from on the team shows some talent but always hurt enough of that thanks but no thanks. It’s not that these guys have not tried it’s simply time to move on and wish them good luck.
Huh? please explain? Barkley would cost about 7.25mil/yr as the #2 pick.
Meh -- you're right -- I'm not used to the numbers of the top picks because we haven't picked this high before -- so maybe you hope Pittsburgh doesn't tag Bell and go after him and buy yourself the equivalent of a #2 pick
Just look at the angst people had regarding Latavius Murray when he signed with the Vikes. You never know what system will fit a back well.
Keep in mind, McAdoo's system was shit. I'm not sure we really can get an evaluation on many players because his offensive system was so poor.
Vereen is old and washed up. Easy decision to let him go.
Darkwa is a JAG who doesn't have the burst or lateral agility to do anything other than get what is blocked for him. Any street free agent can do what he does. Easy decision to let him go too.
Perkins I thought could be ok this year, but he looked like absolute shit. No burst or elusiveness and worse vision than the prior year. I don't know what happened to him. He is someone who will have to earn his spot this year and will face competition from undrafted free agents.
They should draft an RB to battle it out with Gallman and sign some undrafted FAs to compete with Perkins. Don't spend big money on any of the free agents mentioned above.
I strongly disagree with Barkley at 2 as you need to get the next QB of this franchise this year.
LeSean McCoy is going to cost the Bills 9/mil this year and next.
Chris Ivory is costing around 7mil
Doug Martin 7mil
DeMarco Murray 6.5 mil (they have Henry)
Could also sign an RB who can return kicks like Barner to be that 3rd guy. Barner is a good special teams player, and has some receiving ability. Would be the perfect #3 in Shurmur's system behind Barkley and Gallman.
"I am very confident in myself and I am excited," Murray said. "I am excited about the future, and my future. I know what kind of player I am." It would be surprising for him to say anything else, but the reality is Murray took a step back in his age-29 season even before being sidelined by a knee injury late in the year. The Titans can wipe all of Murray's $6.5 million salary off the cap by cutting him, making that the most likely outcome. Jan 15 - 10:36 AM
Link - ( New Window )
Bring him in, draft a guy in RD 2 or 3.
Gallman- Rookie- McKinnon
you mean like David Wilson?
I think Perkins could be that 3rd down back.
Bring him in, draft a guy in RD 2 or 3.
Gallman- Rookie- McKinnon
Agreed. McKinnon or Lewis, draft a RB....Sony Michel
Quote:
Guys like Darren Sproles never even had a chance to become Giants. I hope Gettleman changes that.
you mean like David Wilson?
Or Vereen
Mic drop.....
I'm in
you can say goodbye to Perkins and Vereen
After that, nobody knows
Peyton Hillis
Brandon Jacobs (when they signed him off the couch and he wore #34)
Michael Cox
Da'rel Scott
Andre Brown
Andre Williams
Rashad Jennings
Shane Vereen
Paul Perkins
Orleans Darkwa
I mean look at those names...Who is the best guy on that list? Jennings? Darkwa?
A bunch of #2/#3 RB's and camp bodies/late round picks
I think just handing the job to Perkins in the off season was a huge mistake by Mac......I think Perkins comes to camp with something to prove, especially for a new coach....
That being said, neither Gallman or Perkins are feature backs, they are backups.....
Get Bell? The way he runs, he could be waiting forever for a hole to open up with our OL.....and as far as Bell goes, he disappears in big games, so no.....
Lewis? He works great in the Pats system, just like Vereen did....but he is not the answer for us......
Don't know where we go with that first pick, but we definitely need someone in the following rounds....the question is, if there are OLman on the board we want, you have to take them first....this team is not going to be fixed in one season.....
Darkwa is a reasonable #3 IMO, if we can sign him cheap, bring him back to compete for a spot too
But generally I agree with the crowd...Gallman looks solid as a #2, but we should bring in a stable of guys to push for spots...draft, FAs, UDFAs.
Best wishes to Vereen in his future endeavors
751 yards rushing
116 yards receiving (19 rec)
4.4 ypc
6.1 ypcatch
5 TDs
He played in 10 games in 2016.
Gallman:
13 games with 1 start:
476 yards rushing
193 yards receiving (34 rec)
4.3 ypc
5.7 ypcatch
1 TD (rec)
The others didn't do enough to warrant a mention.
Maybe that was Darkwa's career year. Maybe it wasn't. I'd like to hold on to him one more year in case he's got another level of progress in him, assuming he didn't cost too much. He likely won't.
One thing Hill is really good at is short yardage, and goal line running. He's also a bigger back than the other Giants backs -- he's the biggest back on the list.
He's probably be available for a prove it very reasonable deal and it would be his first change of scenery coming into the pros -- I'd throw out last year -- the Bengals had a chit season like the Giants did.
I think give him a new lease on life, prove he wants to be in the NFL somemore, and give him a coach like Shurmur who will try to place him in his best light - might be the ticket
The Giants need a punishing vet running back who has produced - and Hill fits the bill
One thing Hill is really good at is short yardage, and goal line running. He's also a bigger back than the other Giants backs -- he's the biggest back on the list.
He's probably be available for a prove it very reasonable deal and it would be his first change of scenery coming into the pros -- I'd throw out last year -- the Bengals had a chit season like the Giants did.
I think give him a new lease on life, prove he wants to be in the NFL somemore, and give him a coach like Shurmur who will try to place him in his best light - might be the ticket
The Giants need a punishing vet running back who has produced - and Hill fits the bill
Hill would be interesting if he would take a low base, incentive laden deal but I wouldn't want to depend on him as a #1 guy.
Let Perkins and Gallman compete for starter
Bring in some Molly Hogs for them to run behind
Re-sign Darkwa. I'd be happy.
Perkins is cheap, and he gets another chance to prove he belongs here. You could do way worse as a third RB on the depth chart.
I'm all in on Saquon but if they decide to go the FA route, I think Jeremy Hill would fit in well here.
Why are we so quick to move on from Darkwa? He had as good a year running the football as any NYG RB has had since 2010. I know that's not much, but in a season where everything went wrong offensively I thought Darkwa showed something. Don't love him, but I think he earned some trust here.
Agreed, that and his performance the past three seasons make him unattractive to the Giants. The Giants need to fix the locker room by cutting ties with problematic characters not adding more.
you can say goodbye to Perkins and Vereen
After that, nobody knows
He would make a lot of sense if they grab an RB early in the draft to pair with Gallman.
Rookie-Gallman-Perkins-Barner
Not to mention the fact that he is one failed drug test away from a year long suspension. No thank you.
The linked article is from his time with Cleveland. There are quotes as he explains what the West Coast offense is and what he is looking for. Regarding running backs, he had this to say:
“The West Coast system obviously starts with a two-back (set),” Shurmur said. “Because we will throw the ball, the halfback has to be able to catch the ball out of the backfield as well as run with it. The fullback is a guy that needs to be able to block, win one-on-one battles on linebackers and then be able to catch the ball out of the backfield.
“So it sounds trite, but we’re going to hand it to them and throw it to them. It’s important that they’re able to beat linebackers in one-on-one coverage and catch the football — that’s the important piece. And when they’re asked to pass protect, (they need to) be able to do that as well. The running backs in this system, they’re key positions because they’re going to touch the football.”
Pat Shurmur explains the WCO - ( New Window )
That article might be worth its own thread ...
What type of offense will Pat Shurmur bring to the Giants? - ( New Window )
Sankey is a restrictive free agent
The twist is, everything I read about his offense seems to suggest he shapes it to fit his players. For example, the Cleveland article I quoted from above discusses the "typical" WCO back: a guy that can catch the football, run good routes, and pass-block. However the article I linked in this post states that Shurmur decided to go "power" because that is what the Vikings running backs are good at.
Sometimes its best for a new coach to not make too many changes to the roster until he has a chance to see how the current roster works with HIS offense. I still think they bring in someone, either from FA and/or draft. I think his back, first and foremost, has to be able to catch. That kinda rules Darkwa out. I can't remember if Perkins can catch; seems so long ago now. I do recall Galleman dropping balls, now that I think about it. He will have to learn how to catch consistently if he has a career with Shurmur.
Out of the group of FA's, who can catch?
What Does Pat Shurmur Have in Store for the Vikings Offense? - ( New Window )
That article suggested Shurmur "might" go with a power running game. Based on what I have read, the Vikings went with a zone-run blocking scheme in 2017, after revamping the offensive line.
Why are we so quick to move on from Darkwa? He had as good a year running the football as any NYG RB has had since 2010. I know that's not much, but in a season where everything went wrong offensively I thought Darkwa showed something. Don't love him, but I think he earned some trust here.
Darkwa was productive but has no special skills and is way too slow so no thanks.
Vereen is done.
That means we need two guys and I would absolutely go with top-end speed to decide what to look for.