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Interesting Running Back Situation on the Giants

gidiefor : Mod : 1/19/2018 11:02 am
There's really only 2 Running Backs on the Giants right now: Paul Perkins and Wayne Gallman. Both are very similar type backs with similar body types:

Perkins is 5'11/213 (slightly thicker) runs a 4.54,
Gallman is 6' 210 and runs a 4.6. Both are 24.

They've each had moments as rookies - and both have reasonably good receiving abilities - neither is known as a great blocker. Perkins had his moments in 2016 and Gallman in 2017, but neither has really distinguished themselves. I'd say they each had flashes.

Darkwa and Vereen are FAs in 2018

Jalen Simmons, a former Carolina Panther and bounced around the league is also on the roster, he's smaller, thicker and a tad faster than Perkins and Gallman at 5'8" and 220lbs running a 4.5

Gettleman has to bring in at least a couple of running backs in FA if not for anything but so that he can look at the draft board and not make a knee-jerk pick at #2. Saquon Barkley has to be in the conversation if he's not the first player off the board, he's just too good a player not to be in the discussion and I'd want perspective.

Gettleman knows a thing or two about running backs - so I'd say RB in this FA bears watching.

Who would you bring in at RB in FA this off-season knowing that a few FA RBs need to be signed?

The list of FA RBs from Walter Football is linked below.

Of the "top 11" on the linked list the most intriguing RB is:

Le'Veon Bell - whose skill set closely parallels Saquon Barkley in the coming draft, but Barkley is definitely faster. Bell's a little larger than Perkins and Gallman, his 3 cone was 6.75 faster than Gallman's (Perkins didn't complete his combine/no 3 cone). Bell may be a candidate for tagging for Pittsburgh.

Dion Lewis had a break out year this year for the Pats, and is smaller than Simmons at 5'7" 193 lbs, has terrific measurables, but not a lot of production over his rookie contract

Carlos Hyde has had a bunch of disappointing years, he's a Wayne Gallman Clone body wise

Isaiah Crowell has showed flashes and is closer in body type to Paul Perkins, but had a disappointing year

Jerick McKinnon is someone Shurmer is very familiar with - he's faster than Perkins and Gallman with a 4.41 at the Combine, and he's also smaller at 5'9" and 209 - doesn't have a tremendous amount of production under Shurmer - I would classify it as inconsistent

Alfred Morris is 28 and he started off a blazing for the Skins and has had an up and down career -- he was serviceable for the Cowboys - he's 5'10" and 219 lbs, a little more chunky than Perkins and Gallman - closer to Simmons - but much slower

Jeremy Hill, has good measurables and has a checkered past. He's 6'1" and 233 lbs with very big hands and his production has tapered off for the Bengals through the seasons

LeGarrette Blount is 31 and has moments but is coming off his least productive season.

Orleans Darkwa was arguably the Giants best running back this past year but is hardly inspiring

Here's some of the rest, none of whom is very inspiring

Christine Michael, RB, Colts. Age: 27.
Mike Davis (RFA), RB, Seahawks. Age: 25.
Jamaal Charles, RB, Broncos. Age: 31.
Charles Sims, RB, Buccaneers. Age: 27.
Branden Oliver, RB, Chargers. Age: 27.
Kenjon Barner, RB, Eagles. Age: 28.
Benny Cunningham, RB, Bears. Age: 28.
Shane Vereen, RB, Giants. Age: 29.
Alfred Blue, RB, Texans. Age: 27.
Darren Sproles, RB, Eagles. Age: 35.
Andre Ellington, RB, Texans. Age: 29.
Corey Grant (RFA), RB, Jaguars. Age: 26.
Terron Ward (RFA), RB, Falcons. Age: 26.
Kerwynn Williams, RB, Cardinals. Age: 36.
Kapri Bibbs (RFA), RB, Redskins. Age: 25.
Travaris Cadet, RB, Bills. Age: 29.
Bishop Sankey (RFA), RB, Vikings. Age: 25.
Damien Williams, RB, Dolphins. Age: 26.
Zach Zenner (RFA), RB, Lions. Age: 26.










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I never want to see  
Chris684 : 1/19/2018 11:05 am : link
Darkwa, Vereen or Perkins ever again.

Gallman is a keeper.
Bell's awesome  
giants#1 : 1/19/2018 11:07 am : link
but no way I'm paying a RB >$10M per. Not really interested in any of the other FAs, except maybe Hill if he's reasonably cheap $2-3M.

I thought Gallman showed much more explosiveness than Perkins, but the little success Perkins had in 2016 followed by the extremely disappointing 2017 has to give you some pause about Gallman's production.

Seems like a chicken/egg thing to me  
lono801 : 1/19/2018 11:11 am : link
Show me a RB that could run behind that O-Line last year.
RE: I never want to see  
NYG007 : 1/19/2018 11:11 am : link
In comment 13796717 Chris684 said:
Quote:
Darkwa, Vereen or Perkins ever again.

Gallman is a keeper.


Agree, I only want to keep Gallman of the group.
Gallman is the only RB on the roster, IMO.  
x meadowlander : 1/19/2018 11:12 am : link
I've seen enough of the rest.
The thing is  
gmen9892 : 1/19/2018 11:12 am : link
This is also the deepest (and possibly best) RB class we have seen coming into the draft in years. I dont think they are pidgeon-holed into picking an RB at #2, even if they do not pick up a veteran. There are going to be talented RB's in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
Agreed.  
Powerclean765 : 1/19/2018 11:13 am : link
Total rebuild here. Gallman was impressive but he's a #3 in a strong backfield.
One point I'd like to make - is that if you think  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/19/2018 11:14 am : link
Bell would be a great addition to the Giants - the Giants might be able to save themselves $10 million off the cap in each of the next 4 years by picking Barkley
RE: Seems like a chicken/egg thing to me  
giants#1 : 1/19/2018 11:14 am : link
In comment 13796731 lono801 said:
Quote:
Show me a RB that could run behind that O-Line last year.


Darkwa averaged 4.4 ypc and Gallman 4.3 ypc. Among RBs with >= 50 rushing attempts in 2017, those numbers would rank them 16th and 22nd in the league respectively.

In other words, a little above average.
Luckily  
Peppers : 1/19/2018 11:15 am : link
There's no shortage of RBs..


RE: One point I'd like to make - is that if you think  
giants#1 : 1/19/2018 11:15 am : link
In comment 13796748 gidiefor said:
Quote:
Bell would be a great addition to the Giants - the Giants might be able to save themselves $10 million off the cap in each of the next 4 years by picking Barkley


If you don't think Bell would be a great addition to the Giants, then you should quit watching football! :-)
Gallman is a very good receiver  
Jay on the Island : 1/19/2018 11:16 am : link
I think he is a much better all around RB than Perkins. Gallman should at least be the 3rd down back next season. I would like to see them add a RB in the draft but preferably on day two or three. This is a loaded RB draft class which is another reason why I think they should go QB over Barkley at 2. I know Barkley is special but you always go QB first unless of course you have already have a QB in his prime. If this was 4-5 years ago I would say take Barkley or trade down.
Exactly  
lono801 : 1/19/2018 11:16 am : link
Now image what they could do behind a real Line
RE: Luckily  
Powerclean765 : 1/19/2018 11:16 am : link
In comment 13796752 Peppers said:
Quote:
There's no shortage of RBs..



Yup. I think Shurmur will want a front-line starter (Bell, Barkley?) and a Hammer. Gallman can play situationally - I like him in the 2 minute, and as a potential 3rd down RB - if he can improve his blocking.
They should re-sign Darkwa for 1 year  
Jay on the Island : 1/19/2018 11:17 am : link
then draft a RB in the 3rd-5th round to go along with Gallman and Perkins.
RE: They should re-sign Darkwa for 1 year  
Powerclean765 : 1/19/2018 11:19 am : link
In comment 13796762 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
then draft a RB in the 3rd-5th round to go along with Gallman and Perkins.


That's a pedestrian backfield.
Another point I'd like to make  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/19/2018 11:19 am : link
is when Perkins was picked in the draft, Sy'56 said he was now the best RB on the Giants -- he had a slow start in 2016 because the school year rules forced him to miss the offseason training sessions

He was slated to be the starter in 2016 - but McAddo lost patience with him in game 2 and he didn't see him on the field after that, so we really don't know what the Giants have in Perkins - but he was supposed to be pretty good
RE: One point I'd like to make - is that if you think  
rasbutant : 1/19/2018 11:19 am : link
In comment 13796748 gidiefor said:
Quote:
Bell would be a great addition to the Giants - the Giants might be able to save themselves $10 million off the cap in each of the next 4 years by picking Barkley


Huh? please explain? Barkley would cost about 7.25mil/yr as the #2 pick.

why keep Darkwa AND draft another JAG?  
Victor in CT : 1/19/2018 11:20 am : link
cut bait on Vereen and Darkwa, draft a RB, keep Galman and Perkins.
Options  
Peppers : 1/19/2018 11:21 am : link
McKinnon. Terrific athlete who still has one of the highest pSPARQ scores ever for a RB. Adds a different dimension and some familiarity to the offense.

This draft is also loaded in talent, we can get a starting quality guy in the 3rd round maybe 4th round.

You also have to look at potential trades. Tevin Coleman will be a free agent after 2018, Atlanta might want to get a return out of him now.


RE: I never want to see  
Danny Kanell : 1/19/2018 11:22 am : link
In comment 13796717 Chris684 said:
Quote:
Darkwa, Vereen or Perkins ever again.

Gallman is a keeper.


+1
RE: Another point I'd like to make  
giants#1 : 1/19/2018 11:22 am : link
In comment 13796770 gidiefor said:
Quote:
is when Perkins was picked in the draft, Sy'56 said he was now the best RB on the Giants -- he had a slow start in 2016 because the school year rules forced him to miss the offseason training sessions

He was slated to be the starter in 2016 - but McAddo lost patience with him in game 2 and he didn't see him on the field after that, so we really don't know what the Giants have in Perkins - but he was supposed to be pretty good


In Perkins' defense, he was also playing before Fluker (and others) were inserted into the lineup which significantly improved the run blocking. I believe Ellison became a much bigger part of the offense, and run game in particular, in the 2nd half of the season as well.

HB’s  
Dragon : 1/19/2018 11:22 am : link
The best case position on the team those were held back somewhat by the Vereen usage and Darkwa push near the end. They are both the same truly and to be honest both have shown second, third or fourth string ability. This is a position we need to learn from the vets mistakes out with the old in with the very young and new. Go look at this draft class twenty or more HB’s will still be available after the draft find three or more including the one most likely drafted.

Vereen can’t think of one reason to even make a phone call except maybe to say farewell. Darkwa is who we are trying to get away from on the team shows some talent but always hurt enough of that thanks but no thanks. It’s not that these guys have not tried it’s simply time to move on and wish them good luck.
RE: RE: One point I'd like to make - is that if you think  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/19/2018 11:24 am : link
In comment 13796771 rasbutant said:
Quote:

Huh? please explain? Barkley would cost about 7.25mil/yr as the #2 pick.


Meh -- you're right -- I'm not used to the numbers of the top picks because we haven't picked this high before -- so maybe you hope Pittsburgh doesn't tag Bell and go after him and buy yourself the equivalent of a #2 pick
just spend money on the lines  
AnnapolisMike : 1/19/2018 11:24 am : link
That will make everyone better. Just fix the fucking OL and get us another pass rusher . . .PLEASE
McKinnon  
Dragon : 1/19/2018 11:27 am : link
Speed guy but has yet to show it on the field we don’t need a specialty back we need a good HB several in this draft stay away from FA.
Line  
Dragon : 1/19/2018 11:35 am : link
Will not be fixed in one year just like this offense or defense stop looking for shortcuts we have proven they don’t work. Build this team for the future this group of players for the most part in two years or less hopefully will all be gone or FA’s crying show me the money. Or in two years from now you will be doing exactly what you could have done now with little or nothing to show for it. This was the team expectations were very high for don’t be fooled again they are talent wise exactly what there record says they are.
RB is the easiest position to fill, rebuild the oline and a back like  
SterlingArcher : 1/19/2018 11:36 am : link
Gallman will be successful.
Super burst to the edge  
idiotsavant : 1/19/2018 11:37 am : link
Starts instantly. Low. Hard to tackle
Dismissing..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/19/2018 11:40 am : link
Perkins or Darkwa seems premature.

Just look at the angst people had regarding Latavius Murray when he signed with the Vikes. You never know what system will fit a back well.

Keep in mind, McAdoo's system was shit. I'm not sure we really can get an evaluation on many players because his offensive system was so poor.
Gallman Only  
Bruner4329 : 1/19/2018 11:49 am : link
I liked him but the others are depth players at best, not a back that should be playing a lot of snaps. Sure Daerkwa has some moments but he also is not a good receiver out of the backfield. I would still like a RB in the draft in the first 2 rounds.
gallman is the only one worth a damn  
GiantsFan84 : 1/19/2018 11:57 am : link
the others all suck.

Vereen is old and washed up. Easy decision to let him go.

Darkwa is a JAG who doesn't have the burst or lateral agility to do anything other than get what is blocked for him. Any street free agent can do what he does. Easy decision to let him go too.

Perkins I thought could be ok this year, but he looked like absolute shit. No burst or elusiveness and worse vision than the prior year. I don't know what happened to him. He is someone who will have to earn his spot this year and will face competition from undrafted free agents.

They should draft an RB to battle it out with Gallman and sign some undrafted FAs to compete with Perkins. Don't spend big money on any of the free agents mentioned above.

I strongly disagree with Barkley at 2 as you need to get the next QB of this franchise this year.
I think there will be some Vet Cuts as well  
rasbutant : 1/19/2018 12:09 pm : link
not that it really changes much, but....

LeSean McCoy is going to cost the Bills 9/mil this year and next.

Chris Ivory is costing around 7mil
Doug Martin 7mil
DeMarco Murray 6.5 mil (they have Henry)
I like Barkley at #2  
Breeze_94 : 1/19/2018 12:11 pm : link
and then sign a depth guy like Terron Ward or Kapri Bibbs to compete with Perkins.

Could also sign an RB who can return kicks like Barner to be that 3rd guy. Barner is a good special teams player, and has some receiving ability. Would be the perfect #3 in Shurmur's system behind Barkley and Gallman.
From rotoworld.....  
rasbutant : 1/19/2018 12:13 pm : link
DeMarco Murray "definitely" believes he is still a top-end running back.
"I am very confident in myself and I am excited," Murray said. "I am excited about the future, and my future. I know what kind of player I am." It would be surprising for him to say anything else, but the reality is Murray took a step back in his age-29 season even before being sidelined by a knee injury late in the year. The Titans can wipe all of Murray's $6.5 million salary off the cap by cutting him, making that the most likely outcome. Jan 15 - 10:36 AM
Link - ( New Window )
Of course if Giants want to go QB at 2  
Breeze_94 : 1/19/2018 12:15 pm : link
then I would be intrigued by McKinnon to take the Vereen role. He is a great fit and familiar with Shurmurs system.

Bring him in, draft a guy in RD 2 or 3.

Gallman- Rookie- McKinnon
Jerry Reese was allergic to small, shifty backs.  
SHO'NUFF : 1/19/2018 12:16 pm : link
Guys like Darren Sproles never even had a chance to become Giants. I hope Gettleman changes that.
McKinnon..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/19/2018 12:16 pm : link
is injured as much or more than Vereen. We can find a 3rd down back as capable that will stay on the field more than those two.
RE: Jerry Reese was allergic to small, shifty backs.  
Victor in CT : 1/19/2018 12:18 pm : link
In comment 13796890 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
Guys like Darren Sproles never even had a chance to become Giants. I hope Gettleman changes that.


you mean like David Wilson?
RE: McKinnon..  
Victor in CT : 1/19/2018 12:18 pm : link
In comment 13796892 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
is injured as much or more than Vereen. We can find a 3rd down back as capable that will stay on the field more than those two.


I think Perkins could be that 3rd down back.
RE: Of course if Giants want to go QB at 2  
Rjanyg : 1/19/2018 12:27 pm : link
In comment 13796888 Breeze_94 said:
Quote:
then I would be intrigued by McKinnon to take the Vereen role. He is a great fit and familiar with Shurmurs system.

Bring him in, draft a guy in RD 2 or 3.

Gallman- Rookie- McKinnon


Agreed. McKinnon or Lewis, draft a RB....Sony Michel
RE: RE: Jerry Reese was allergic to small, shifty backs.  
giants#1 : 1/19/2018 12:32 pm : link
In comment 13796893 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 13796890 SHO'NUFF said:


Quote:


Guys like Darren Sproles never even had a chance to become Giants. I hope Gettleman changes that.



you mean like David Wilson?


Or Vereen
RE: just spend money on the lines  
HoustonGiant : 1/19/2018 1:05 pm : link
In comment 13796788 AnnapolisMike said:
Quote:
That will make everyone better. Just fix the fucking OL and get us another pass rusher . . .PLEASE


Mic drop.....


I'm in
Gallman and Darkwa  
EricJ : 1/19/2018 1:12 pm : link
will be on the team...
you can say goodbye to Perkins and Vereen

After that, nobody knows
I think we should bring back Darkwa on the cheap  
chuckydee9 : 1/19/2018 1:22 pm : link
he was pretty good and will come very cheap.. realistically we only need a thumper and a OL.. Focus on OL and all our RB will look better.. also our QB will look better.. I don't see Barkley being better than Gurley and we passed on him for 9th Pick.. 2nd pick is too high for a RB.. we need a QB, DE, LB and about 5 Starting Caliber OL before we can think about investment in RB..
Giants have had the most uninspiring list of RB's  
Breeze_94 : 1/19/2018 1:34 pm : link
since Ahmad Bradshaw left/David Wilson's injury.

Peyton Hillis
Brandon Jacobs (when they signed him off the couch and he wore #34)
Michael Cox
Da'rel Scott
Andre Brown
Andre Williams
Rashad Jennings
Shane Vereen
Paul Perkins
Orleans Darkwa

I mean look at those names...Who is the best guy on that list? Jennings? Darkwa?

A bunch of #2/#3 RB's and camp bodies/late round picks
Darkwa is always hurt. let him go  
Victor in CT : 1/19/2018 1:37 pm : link
.......
we better keep Darkwa  
djm : 1/19/2018 1:38 pm : link
yes Gallman is younger and a higher pick but Darwka was the best RB on the team last year. He actually broke a big play. To me Darkwa showed more than anyone on offense in 2017. Yes, Orleans Darkwa was our best offensive player. Terrifying.
Perkins is going nowhere.....  
Doomster : 1/19/2018 1:44 pm : link
Did Gallman look any better than Perkins did in 2016? Perkins had the ability to make guys miss....

I think just handing the job to Perkins in the off season was a huge mistake by Mac......I think Perkins comes to camp with something to prove, especially for a new coach....

That being said, neither Gallman or Perkins are feature backs, they are backups.....

Get Bell? The way he runs, he could be waiting forever for a hole to open up with our OL.....and as far as Bell goes, he disappears in big games, so no.....

Lewis? He works great in the Pats system, just like Vereen did....but he is not the answer for us......

Don't know where we go with that first pick, but we definitely need someone in the following rounds....the question is, if there are OLman on the board we want, you have to take them first....this team is not going to be fixed in one season.....
Perkins is still on his cheap rookie deal  
mfsd : 1/19/2018 1:45 pm : link
I’d expect him back in camp...either he comes back ready to earn a roster spot, or cut him

Darkwa is a reasonable #3 IMO, if we can sign him cheap, bring him back to compete for a spot too

But generally I agree with the crowd...Gallman looks solid as a #2, but we should bring in a stable of guys to push for spots...draft, FAs, UDFAs.

Best wishes to Vereen in his future endeavors
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