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Interesting Running Back Situation on the Giants

gidiefor : Mod : 1/19/2018 11:02 am
There's really only 2 Running Backs on the Giants right now: Paul Perkins and Wayne Gallman. Both are very similar type backs with similar body types:

Perkins is 5'11/213 (slightly thicker) runs a 4.54,
Gallman is 6' 210 and runs a 4.6. Both are 24.

They've each had moments as rookies - and both have reasonably good receiving abilities - neither is known as a great blocker. Perkins had his moments in 2016 and Gallman in 2017, but neither has really distinguished themselves. I'd say they each had flashes.

Darkwa and Vereen are FAs in 2018

Jalen Simmons, a former Carolina Panther and bounced around the league is also on the roster, he's smaller, thicker and a tad faster than Perkins and Gallman at 5'8" and 220lbs running a 4.5

Gettleman has to bring in at least a couple of running backs in FA if not for anything but so that he can look at the draft board and not make a knee-jerk pick at #2. Saquon Barkley has to be in the conversation if he's not the first player off the board, he's just too good a player not to be in the discussion and I'd want perspective.

Gettleman knows a thing or two about running backs - so I'd say RB in this FA bears watching.

Who would you bring in at RB in FA this off-season knowing that a few FA RBs need to be signed?

The list of FA RBs from Walter Football is linked below.

Of the "top 11" on the linked list the most intriguing RB is:

Le'Veon Bell - whose skill set closely parallels Saquon Barkley in the coming draft, but Barkley is definitely faster. Bell's a little larger than Perkins and Gallman, his 3 cone was 6.75 faster than Gallman's (Perkins didn't complete his combine/no 3 cone). Bell may be a candidate for tagging for Pittsburgh.

Dion Lewis had a break out year this year for the Pats, and is smaller than Simmons at 5'7" 193 lbs, has terrific measurables, but not a lot of production over his rookie contract

Carlos Hyde has had a bunch of disappointing years, he's a Wayne Gallman Clone body wise

Isaiah Crowell has showed flashes and is closer in body type to Paul Perkins, but had a disappointing year

Jerick McKinnon is someone Shurmer is very familiar with - he's faster than Perkins and Gallman with a 4.41 at the Combine, and he's also smaller at 5'9" and 209 - doesn't have a tremendous amount of production under Shurmer - I would classify it as inconsistent

Alfred Morris is 28 and he started off a blazing for the Skins and has had an up and down career -- he was serviceable for the Cowboys - he's 5'10" and 219 lbs, a little more chunky than Perkins and Gallman - closer to Simmons - but much slower

Jeremy Hill, has good measurables and has a checkered past. He's 6'1" and 233 lbs with very big hands and his production has tapered off for the Bengals through the seasons

LeGarrette Blount is 31 and has moments but is coming off his least productive season.

Orleans Darkwa was arguably the Giants best running back this past year but is hardly inspiring

Here's some of the rest, none of whom is very inspiring

Christine Michael, RB, Colts. Age: 27.
Mike Davis (RFA), RB, Seahawks. Age: 25.
Jamaal Charles, RB, Broncos. Age: 31.
Charles Sims, RB, Buccaneers. Age: 27.
Branden Oliver, RB, Chargers. Age: 27.
Kenjon Barner, RB, Eagles. Age: 28.
Benny Cunningham, RB, Bears. Age: 28.
Shane Vereen, RB, Giants. Age: 29.
Alfred Blue, RB, Texans. Age: 27.
Darren Sproles, RB, Eagles. Age: 35.
Andre Ellington, RB, Texans. Age: 29.
Corey Grant (RFA), RB, Jaguars. Age: 26.
Terron Ward (RFA), RB, Falcons. Age: 26.
Kerwynn Williams, RB, Cardinals. Age: 36.
Kapri Bibbs (RFA), RB, Redskins. Age: 25.
Travaris Cadet, RB, Bills. Age: 29.
Bishop Sankey (RFA), RB, Vikings. Age: 25.
Damien Williams, RB, Dolphins. Age: 26.
Zach Zenner (RFA), RB, Lions. Age: 26.










Link - ( New Window )
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Darkwa played in 15 games in 2017  
djm : 1/19/2018 1:46 pm : link
starting 11 of them:

751 yards rushing
116 yards receiving (19 rec)

4.4 ypc
6.1 ypcatch
5 TDs

He played in 10 games in 2016.

Gallman:

13 games with 1 start:

476 yards rushing
193 yards receiving (34 rec)

4.3 ypc
5.7 ypcatch
1 TD (rec)

The others didn't do enough to warrant a mention.


Gallman showed more versaility  
djm : 1/19/2018 1:49 pm : link
but to me Darkwa was the more powerfuland better downhill runner. I'd like to see Gallman improve in those areas. He's got some wiggle...but how much of an impact will be bring?

Maybe that was Darkwa's career year. Maybe it wasn't. I'd like to hold on to him one more year in case he's got another level of progress in him, assuming he didn't cost too much. He likely won't.
Love Gallman  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 1/19/2018 1:53 pm : link
I think he has more to offer. Barkley and Gallman would make a really interesting one-two punch.
I have to admit  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/19/2018 1:57 pm : link
that after perusing the list of running backs I linked -- the one RB who intrigues me the most just based on his sheer physicality and past performance is Jeremy Hill.

One thing Hill is really good at is short yardage, and goal line running. He's also a bigger back than the other Giants backs -- he's the biggest back on the list.

He's probably be available for a prove it very reasonable deal and it would be his first change of scenery coming into the pros -- I'd throw out last year -- the Bengals had a chit season like the Giants did.

I think give him a new lease on life, prove he wants to be in the NFL somemore, and give him a coach like Shurmur who will try to place him in his best light - might be the ticket

The Giants need a punishing vet running back who has produced - and Hill fits the bill

Bell will cost too much money.  
BigBlueHens : 1/19/2018 1:59 pm : link
Pipe Dream. I wouldn't be against bringing back Darkwa. He had some good performances with running behind a makeshift o-line. He will not break the bank either. Gallman will be back, as with Perkins. I would love to pick up a veteran back if we don't bring back Darkwa, and drafting a back is still on the table.
RE: I have to admit  
Breeze_94 : 1/19/2018 2:00 pm : link
In comment 13797028 gidiefor said:
Quote:
that after perusing the list of running backs I linked -- the one RB who intrigues me the most just based on his sheer physicality and past performance is Jeremy Hill.

One thing Hill is really good at is short yardage, and goal line running. He's also a bigger back than the other Giants backs -- he's the biggest back on the list.

He's probably be available for a prove it very reasonable deal and it would be his first change of scenery coming into the pros -- I'd throw out last year -- the Bengals had a chit season like the Giants did.

I think give him a new lease on life, prove he wants to be in the NFL somemore, and give him a coach like Shurmur who will try to place him in his best light - might be the ticket

The Giants need a punishing vet running back who has produced - and Hill fits the bill


Hill would be interesting if he would take a low base, incentive laden deal but I wouldn't want to depend on him as a #1 guy.
I'd put Hill in as a 3rd Down and as a short yardage back  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/19/2018 2:06 pm : link
that you don't have to make a long-term commitment for

Let Perkins and Gallman compete for starter

Bring in some Molly Hogs for them to run behind
Trade our 2 fourth rounders to get Kerryon Johnson  
adamg : 1/19/2018 2:18 pm : link
At the end of the third.

Re-sign Darkwa. I'd be happy.
Hill  
mdthedream : 1/19/2018 2:26 pm : link
is not third down back look at his stats never been a receiving back.
Doesn't make any sense to cut Perkins.  
Brown Recluse : 1/19/2018 2:30 pm : link
Some of you are just mad that he didn't live up to your expectations last year. You forget he was this teams Gallman in 2016.

Perkins is cheap, and he gets another chance to prove he belongs here. You could do way worse as a third RB on the depth chart.

I'm all in on Saquon but if they decide to go the FA route, I think Jeremy Hill would fit in well here.
Issue with Hill  
Sy'56 : 1/19/2018 2:51 pm : link
He isn't clean off the field and there have been issues with him not being coachable in CIN. NYG needs to rid themselves of guys like that
Thomas Rawls  
Bavaro_the_Mafioso : 1/19/2018 3:47 pm : link
I thought he was a UFA, as well. Has something to prove and could come on the cheap.
Rawls, Hill  
djm : 1/19/2018 4:06 pm : link
are those guys any better than Darwka? I don't think so.

Why are we so quick to move on from Darkwa? He had as good a year running the football as any NYG RB has had since 2010. I know that's not much, but in a season where everything went wrong offensively I thought Darkwa showed something. Don't love him, but I think he earned some trust here.
RE: Issue with Hill  
Jay on the Island : 1/19/2018 4:12 pm : link
In comment 13797108 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
He isn't clean off the field and there have been issues with him not being coachable in CIN. NYG needs to rid themselves of guys like that

Agreed, that and his performance the past three seasons make him unattractive to the Giants. The Giants need to fix the locker room by cutting ties with problematic characters not adding more.
RE: Gallman and Darkwa  
Beer Man : 1/19/2018 4:23 pm : link
In comment 13796969 EricJ said:
Quote:
will be on the team...
you can say goodbye to Perkins and Vereen

After that, nobody knows
Not necessarily. Most probably agree Vereen will not be resigned (he is older now, and the Giants didn't get their money's worth from his first contract). I think they hold on to both Perkins and Gallman, as both are under contract and not a burden to the Cap. Perkins looked like a different runner on his few chances after he returned late it the year, so unlike what we saw with Wilson, we may see him bounce back (but neither Perkins or Gallman should be the 2018 starter). I think the only way they resign Darkwa is if they don't draft a RB. He may have performed best of the Giants RBs this year, but that's like being named the tallest midget in the room. Darkwa is really nothing all that special, can easily be replaced, and you already have two RB backups signed on the team.
I can def see Barner being an option as a depth guy  
Breeze_94 : 1/19/2018 4:27 pm : link
Good receiving option/3rd down type, can return kicks and contribute on ST. Plus, he was a Gettleman draft pick in Carolina and played a season under Shurmur in Philly.

He would make a lot of sense if they grab an RB early in the draft to pair with Gallman.

Rookie-Gallman-Perkins-Barner
RE: Bell will cost too much money.  
paesan98 : 1/19/2018 5:29 pm : link
In comment 13797032 BigBlueHens said:
Quote:
Pipe Dream. I wouldn't be against bringing back Darkwa. He had some good performances with running behind a makeshift o-line. He will not break the bank either. Gallman will be back, as with Perkins. I would love to pick up a veteran back if we don't bring back Darkwa, and drafting a back is still on the table.


Not to mention the fact that he is one failed drug test away from a year long suspension. No thank you.
Bishop Sankey ....  
paesan98 : 1/19/2018 5:32 pm : link
looked pretty good coming out of college. I, probably like the vast majority of you, didn't get to see too many Tennessee games, or followed them closely enough to know why he didn't do anything there. He will probably be a relatively cheap option.
What STYLE running back?  
jbeintherockies : 1/19/2018 8:54 pm : link
I think to answer what running back(s) the Giants should go after in the draft and free agency, you need to have an idea what requirements Shurmur's offense has for a running back.

The linked article is from his time with Cleveland. There are quotes as he explains what the West Coast offense is and what he is looking for. Regarding running backs, he had this to say:

Quote:
How are running backs used?

“The West Coast system obviously starts with a two-back (set),” Shurmur said. “Because we will throw the ball, the halfback has to be able to catch the ball out of the backfield as well as run with it. The fullback is a guy that needs to be able to block, win one-on-one battles on linebackers and then be able to catch the ball out of the backfield.

“So it sounds trite, but we’re going to hand it to them and throw it to them. It’s important that they’re able to beat linebackers in one-on-one coverage and catch the football — that’s the important piece. And when they’re asked to pass protect, (they need to) be able to do that as well. The running backs in this system, they’re key positions because they’re going to touch the football.”

Pat Shurmur explains the WCO - ( New Window )
Duggan article  
jbeintherockies : 1/19/2018 9:00 pm : link
Duggan article on what type of offense Shurmur runs, including details on running backs.

That article might be worth its own thread ...
What type of offense will Pat Shurmur bring to the Giants? - ( New Window )
RE: Bishop Sankey ....  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/19/2018 9:26 pm : link
In comment 13797293 paesan98 said:
Quote:
looked pretty good coming out of college. I, probably like the vast majority of you, didn't get to see too many Tennessee games, or followed them closely enough to know why he didn't do anything there. He will probably be a relatively cheap option.


Sankey is a restrictive free agent
hi-jacking the thread?  
jbeintherockies : 1/19/2018 9:37 pm : link
I didn't mean to divert the topic. I thought we first needed to understand what kind of running back he likes in his offense. That makes it easier to identify possible candidates.

The twist is, everything I read about his offense seems to suggest he shapes it to fit his players. For example, the Cleveland article I quoted from above discusses the "typical" WCO back: a guy that can catch the football, run good routes, and pass-block. However the article I linked in this post states that Shurmur decided to go "power" because that is what the Vikings running backs are good at.

Sometimes its best for a new coach to not make too many changes to the roster until he has a chance to see how the current roster works with HIS offense. I still think they bring in someone, either from FA and/or draft. I think his back, first and foremost, has to be able to catch. That kinda rules Darkwa out. I can't remember if Perkins can catch; seems so long ago now. I do recall Galleman dropping balls, now that I think about it. He will have to learn how to catch consistently if he has a career with Shurmur.

Out of the group of FA's, who can catch?
What Does Pat Shurmur Have in Store for the Vikings Offense? - ( New Window )
correction  
jbeintherockies : 1/19/2018 10:45 pm : link
Quote:
However the article I linked in this post states that Shurmur decided to go "power" because that is what the Vikings running backs are good at.

That article suggested Shurmur "might" go with a power running game. Based on what I have read, the Vikings went with a zone-run blocking scheme in 2017, after revamping the offensive line.
RE: Rawls, Hill  
HomerJones45 : 1/19/2018 11:51 pm : link
In comment 13797188 djm said:
Quote:
are those guys any better than Darwka? I don't think so.

Why are we so quick to move on from Darkwa? He had as good a year running the football as any NYG RB has had since 2010. I know that's not much, but in a season where everything went wrong offensively I thought Darkwa showed something. Don't love him, but I think he earned some trust here.
dont fall into the trap of assuming mediocre players who “star” on bad teams are worthwhile starters. Darkwa’s career screams mediocrity who had a career year on a bad team. Every effort should be made to find someone better.
My uneducated opinion: Gallman  
DG : 1/20/2018 12:16 am : link
and Darkwa should be the only backs that will stay. Barkley is not close to the back that Guice is as far as what he will do in the NFL. He will have trouble running between the tackles in the NFL. Just my opinion.
Clearly Gallman stays. I actually would give Perkins  
Jimmy Googs : 1/20/2018 8:46 am : link
another really good look as not sure why he fell so much his Sophomore year. He showed ability to get to the edge and make people miss in 2016 so it can't be gone forever. He gets a pass and should be one of the 4 in that unit

Darkwa was productive but has no special skills and is way too slow so no thanks.

Vereen is done.

That means we need two guys and I would absolutely go with top-end speed to decide what to look for.

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