That's also good? It's awesome, seriously awesome. You should try it.
As a Wisconsin Badger fan I got to root for Russell Wilson for one season in 2011. That Badger team went 11-3 and won the Big 10 Championship. A good season, no doubt but what was different for me that year was how I felt as a fan.
I literally thought they'd win every game. They weren't packed with talent, WIS always has some good players, but Wilson just took them to a sick level of confidence.
It would be 3rd and 15 early in the game and Wilson would leak out and run for 25 yards and a 1st down. He would do this over and over, escaping trouble and just breaking the defenses backs and wills.
You saw DCs with their hats off scratching their heads. It was glorious.
I was genuinely surprised when they lost.
So take off that self limiting "mobile QBs can't win or last or learn playbook" nonsense. Give it a whirl. I guarantee you will like it.
Eli Manning 2 rings
Tom Brady 5 rings
Drew Brees 1 ring
Joe Flacco 1 ring
Ben Rothelisberger
i'd be happy with someone with this skill, plus the ability to occasionally run for a first down. that level of skill and athleticism would be exciting. Brees = yes. RGIII = no for me.
i don't want someone that becomes vulnerable when extending a play.
College is not producing quality pure pocket passers anymore. It's time to change our thinking about the quarterback position.
Even the throw first but run 2nd quarterbacks aren’t surviving anymore (Wentz, Rodgers etc).
The most important ability is availability.
College is not producing quality pure pocket passers anymore. It's time to change our thinking about the quarterback position.
Qb Run numbers for 3 of the 4 teams remaining:
Wentz 64
Bortles 57
Keenum 40
Two of those are top 10. 4 of the top 10 running QBs made the playoffs.
All three teams got pretty far running the QB. Obviously this isn't the 200+ times Jackson ran it in college, but he also won't need to run that many times
Even the throw first but run 2nd quarterbacks aren’t surviving anymore (Wentz, Rodgers etc).
The most important ability is availability.
Neither are the wide recievers, corners, runningbacks, lineman. How many stars got lost to injury this year
- Geno Smith.
Geno Smith is not a mobile quarterback, brotato chip.
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Mobile quarterbacks don’t survive in the NFL. Ever.
Even the throw first but run 2nd quarterbacks aren’t surviving anymore (Wentz, Rodgers etc).
The most important ability is availability.
Neither are the wide recievers, corners, runningbacks, lineman. How many stars got lost to injury this year
Not sure I follow. I’m comparing mobile quarterbacks to pocket QBs
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There aren't any. We keep talking about Brady, Brees... These guys are 40 years old!
College is not producing quality pure pocket passers anymore. It's time to change our thinking about the quarterback position.
Qb Run numbers for 3 of the 4 teams remaining:
Wentz 64
Bortles 57
Keenum 40
Two of those are top 10. 4 of the top 10 running QBs made the playoffs.
All three teams got pretty far running the QB. Obviously this isn't the 200+ times Jackson ran it in college, but he also won't need to run that many times
Correction 6 of the top 10 QBs in rush attempts made the playoffs
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In comment 13797478 Danny Kanell said:
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Mobile quarterbacks don’t survive in the NFL. Ever.
Even the throw first but run 2nd quarterbacks aren’t surviving anymore (Wentz, Rodgers etc).
The most important ability is availability.
Neither are the wide recievers, corners, runningbacks, lineman. How many stars got lost to injury this year
Not sure I follow. I’m comparing mobile quarterbacks to pocket QBs
It's football. Multiple important plays at various positions get lost for the season
College is not producing quality pure pocket passers anymore. It's time to change our thinking about the quarterback position.
I agree, which is why I believe the Giants should ride Eli out until he’s truly done instead of forcing a QB pick at 2.
I would like to see Lamar Jackson as the next face of the Giants franchise.
Guy is a game breaker with his arm and obviously with his legs.
Lack.
Manning
Theisman
Simms
Montana
Bradshaw
Marino
Namath
Romo
Aikman
Rothlisberger
Wentz
Bledsoe
Pennington
Unitas
Griese
Smith
Kapernick
Young
Rodgers
1) we are spoiled by elis durability and luck
2) using RG3 as a constant data point is a data point and not an argument
6 of the top 10 QBs in rushing attempts this year made the playoffs.
Jackson ran the ball as much as last year's 1st round RBs without missing a game.
Football is evolving..
Recall watching D. Watson (and Russell Wilson) play an amazing game in the middle of the season, and I told my son that guys like Watson don't last long in the NFL with their style of play. I think he seasoned ended a few days later.
Lastly, I recall talking to my next-door neighbor Eagle fan late in the year about how Wentz looked great all season but he better watch that mad scrambling his does b/c someone is going to pop him soon. The next week he was done.
The moral of the story?
Aggressively scrambling QBs don't last and I can put the jinx on anybody I want...
6 of the top 10 QBs in rushing attempts this year made the playoffs.
Jackson ran the ball as much as last year's 1st round RBs without missing a game.
Football is evolving..
How many of those are left?
If he has a 12 year career, and misses 20% of the games, lets say 3 whole years, but then 9 years are all in contention, are the lost years overriding the succesful ones?
6 straight years with Eli and in contention only once post 2011.
Not saying I have the answer, but if a "Lamar Jackson" type player can give you that, is it worth it?
Jimmy Googs : 1/19/2018 7:49 pm : link : reply
and miss the rest of the season or season+. Its that simple.
Russel Wilson is the only exception I can think of who you want taking liberties so often. And that is because he is superb...and I mean "superb" at avoiding contact when he runs.
Wilson is far more exception than the rule when describing mobile QBs...
Being an old timer, I can remember Fran Tarkington running for his life early in his career.....he was drafted in the 3rd round, and the Vikings were an expansion team with no OL.....and in those days, "anything goes" as far as hitting the QB......how the hell Fran ever survived all the hits he took over his career, is just remarkable....like Russell, he was the exception to the rule.....
If he has a 12 year career, and misses 20% of the games, lets say 3 whole years, but then 9 years are all in contention, are the lost years overriding the succesful ones?
6 straight years with Eli and in contention only once post 2011.
Not saying I have the answer, but if a "Lamar Jackson" type player can give you that, is it worth it?
Josh Allen is more like Wentz than Jackson. Jackson is similar to Deshaun Watson.
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In comment 13797487 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 13797478 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
Mobile quarterbacks don’t survive in the NFL. Ever.
Even the throw first but run 2nd quarterbacks aren’t surviving anymore (Wentz, Rodgers etc).
The most important ability is availability.
Neither are the wide recievers, corners, runningbacks, lineman. How many stars got lost to injury this year
Not sure I follow. I’m comparing mobile quarterbacks to pocket QBs
It's football. Multiple important plays at various positions get lost for the season
Completely not the point.
An elite DE, CB or WR goes down...it hurts but far more recoverable over the term.
If he has a 12 year career, and misses 20% of the games, lets say 3 whole years, but then 9 years are all in contention, are the lost years overriding the succesful ones?
6 straight years with Eli and in contention only once post 2011.
Not saying I have the answer, but if a "Lamar Jackson" type player can give you that, is it worth it?
No one knows if Wentz and Watson are going to be the same players next year. That’s more significant than simply “missing a few games.”
Andrew Luck -- he's been off the field as much as he's been on it.
Others have mentioned Arod -- great QB -- as he goes - so go the Packers -- he's spent a lot of time not playing during the season
Tony Romo -- great QB -- career cut short by scrambling hit.
Wentz has only been in the league two years -- he's not going to play in the playoffs he got his team to
RGIII basically had 1 great year before the hit limited him
If you look at the QBs that get all the way to the show and win it the vast majority are pocket passers --
The points regarding the College game are fair though. There are not too many pocket passers coming out of college; nor offensive lineman who aren't used to a more mobile game. Maybe the game will evolve this way, but as things stand right now you still have a higher chance of succeeding and lengthening your QB's career if he's primarily in the pocket
The problem is this --the rules don't favor a mobile QB. The rules add risk to it. That and Defenses are getting tougher, faster and more aggressive to combat the passing game. There's a lot more science in nutrition, training, hitting, speed, and bodybuilding, than there used to be. Defensive players are overall faster and more aggressive than they used to be - this is not an accident, this is what works on defense, and the premium on speed matches the premium on speed on Offense.
Scrambling QBs are entertaining, more so than pocket QBs, but there is no denying that their longevity is threatened by the risks they take and the rules. The rules are designed to protect the pocket passer. Some of the hitting rules help the runner, but hitting is still hitting, and aggressive hitting, along with defensive speed is not being curtailed.
If mobile QB's are the direction the NFL is headed then the NFL starts becoming more arena football and the rules are correspondingly gonna have to change to favor the mobile QB -- right now they just don't.
There’s a running mobile like RG3.
There’s a guy who can take off and get 5-10 yards on occasion. Or move well outside the pocket.
Bottom line is that mobile can be far more than a RB who throws the ball once in a while.
Regardless of the limited anecdotal examples -- the logical, financial and practical choice is invest in the player who has the skills to exploit the advantages in the system.
This is basic stuff. And the notion there aren't "pocket passers" in college is inane.
Taking the ball out of the shotgun doesn't mean break the pocket and improvise.
Regardless of the limited anecdotal examples -- the logical, financial and practical choice is invest in the player who has the skills to exploit the advantages in the system.
This is basic stuff. And the notion there aren't "pocket passers" in college is inane.
Taking the ball out of the shotgun doesn't mean break the pocket and improvise.
Name the pure pocket passers under 30 that are starting quarterbacks. Of the top of my head the one guy that might be really good (and healthy) is Garoppolo. There's Luck but I guess being a pocket quarterback hasn't kept him healthy.
Or you can point out the list guys touted as mobile who are out of the league and/or out injured under 30.
Reality is there's virtually no statue QBs left in the league. Luck runs a lot and gets smacked around a lot. For his size Stafford is nifty pulling the ball down.
The statue QB is a lot easier to defend -- it's one of the very few things Mcadoo seemed to understand. It makes an Eli Manning led offense that much easier to contend with.
But the utility of staying in the pocket and passing the ball downfield is serving the best QBs in the league regardless of age.
If I'm building my team around a QB it's someone who can use his legs to extend plays and stay out of trouble.
And if taking off is the right answer, get on the ground immediately.
But I certainly don't want a QB who's giving up vertical pass plays in place of dangerous yards on the ground.
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6 of the top 10 QBs in rushing attempts this year made the playoffs.
Jackson ran the ball as much as last year's 1st round RBs without missing a game.
Football is evolving..
How many of those are left?
2 of the 4, and Keenum was 13th
Andrew Luck -- he's been off the field as much as he's been on it.
Others have mentioned Arod -- great QB -- as he goes - so go the Packers -- he's spent a lot of time not playing during the season
Tony Romo -- great QB -- career cut short by scrambling hit.
Wentz has only been in the league two years -- he's not going to play in the playoffs he got his team to
RGIII basically had 1 great year before the hit limited him
If you look at the QBs that get all the way to the show and win it the vast majority are pocket passers --
The points regarding the College game are fair though. There are not too many pocket passers coming out of college; nor offensive lineman who aren't used to a more mobile game. Maybe the game will evolve this way, but as things stand right now you still have a higher chance of succeeding and lengthening your QB's career if he's primarily in the pocket
The problem is this --the rules don't favor a mobile QB. The rules add risk to it. That and Defenses are getting tougher, faster and more aggressive to combat the passing game. There's a lot more science in nutrition, training, hitting, speed, and bodybuilding, than there used to be. Defensive players are overall faster and more aggressive than they used to be - this is not an accident, this is what works on defense, and the premium on speed matches the premium on speed on Offense.
Scrambling QBs are entertaining, more so than pocket QBs, but there is no denying that their longevity is threatened by the risks they take and the rules. The rules are designed to protect the pocket passer. Some of the hitting rules help the runner, but hitting is still hitting, and aggressive hitting, along with defensive speed is not being curtailed.
If mobile QB's are the direction the NFL is headed then the NFL starts becoming more arena football and the rules are correspondingly gonna have to change to favor the mobile QB -- right now they just don't.
A QB who ran the ball 40+ Times is possibly going to the Super Bowl in Bortles and Keenum. Philly is where they are partially because of Wentz and his ability to run.
Teams are using the mobility of the QB to add another layer to their offense, why do the rules have to change?
We're still a ways from proving that as a valid method.
What kinds of qb last longer?
What kinds of qb give me a chance to win within 8 years of being drafted?
Since the average nfl qb lasts 4.4 years in the nfl, that answer gives you double average expected longevity and chances to win in this current nfl.
Removes a lot of statistical outliers produced by those qbs that lasted more than two standard deviations from the mean
Statistics have to be carefully used.
The idea that a pocketpasser lasts longer and that is also a superbowl winning factor...is not supported by the data.
It may still be true...but it is not the conclusive debate winning assumption some feel it is.
The variable I do think we are seeing play out with decent anecdotal evidence is the rule changes seem to be extending the productive years for quarterbacks.
When choosing a quarterback right now, I'd go with the conventional wisdom of a player who can extend plays with his feet and make all the throws until that's proven a bad call.
The risk is certainly higher the more times you expose yourself but I don’t think it’s as gigantic a risk as everyone always says. You draft a pocket passer you aren’t guaranteed Eli health
Recall watching D. Watson (and Russell Wilson) play an amazing game in the middle of the season, and I told my son that guys like Watson don't last long in the NFL with their style of play. I think he seasoned ended a few days later.
Lastly, I recall talking to my next-door neighbor Eagle fan late in the year about how Wentz looked great all season but he better watch that mad scrambling his does b/c someone is going to pop him soon. The next week he was done.
The moral of the story?
Aggressively scrambling QBs don't last and I can put the jinx on anybody I want...
See this is where this discussion gets tricky because we are going to start to count guys like Aaron Rodgers in the mobile category. Sure he is athletic and elusive and it’s part of what makes him great but he’s not one of the tier 1 great athletes at QB and while he can bust a run if he catches you with your back turned in man to man and nothing is open, but he’s not a running QB, he never runs for more than 200-300 some odd yards in a season. It seems like the bar is anyone more athletic than Eli or Peyton is considered mobile. At least half the starters nowadays are at least as mobile as him.
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... Arod too, and Romo when he was a player
If I'm building my team around a QB it's someone who can use his legs to extend plays and stay out of trouble.
And if taking off is the right answer, get on the ground immediately.
But I certainly don't want a QB who's giving up vertical pass plays in place of dangerous yards on the ground.
Without a doubt, agree 100%. You want that guy who can make miracles happen with his legs, he just has to learn how to QB. I'll gladly have Shurmur accept this challenge. The dimension this adds is just remarkable to watch. For many years Giants fans have watched this burn us.