Reflecting back on this season, it’s amazing how bad it snowballed out of control. Coming off a rookie 11-5 season where everything he did regarding game management paid off. He punted at the right time, he went for it at the right time.
If you read some of the 2016 postgame threads, a lot of us thought McAdoo would be coaching here a long time. Watching some of the post game locker room celebrations especially the 2nd Dallas game, these players seemed to love him. Getting the team ready to play against the Redskins & knocking them out of the playoffs when the Giants were locked into the 5th seed. There was a lot to like.
Ultimately, I think he was a guy who felt a little too good about himself. Instead of self identifying weaknesses, he slicked back his hair and changed his look. That was bad optics all along. Never could stabilize the season. Had the Giants won at Philly & TB, it can be argued the Giants could have battled to 8-8 and everyone would be back. He never could right the ship. Nothing any of us would have anticipated.
You could see the disgust on the defensive players faces early this season, after the constant 3 and outs putting them right back on the field.
How bad does it have to be when players come out and start talking?
The only thing I do not blame him for is taking two jobs that never should have been offered to him in the first place.
Great point. In Coughlin's last season, they lost 6 games where they either had the lead or were tied with under 2 minutes to play.
After his "retirement", Coughlin was asked about it in regards to wanting to keep coaching or not. Coughlin said something like... "If I had been able to just win ONE of those games, I would have gone into Mara's office and fought like hell to keep my job."
Bad luck, but Coughlin also acknowledging that he should be held accountable.
There were quite a few that weren't buying the fool's gold. Many did and were propping Ben up with crediting him with masterful game management and decision making. The fact that Ben's tenure came down so incredibly fast is the real surprise. As one of the few that were not supporters of Ben, I had resigned myself to a few years of shitty ball until he was replaced. I'm thankful that his fall from grace was so spectacular that it also dragged Jerry with him.
That’s the core of the HC job. press conferences are frills and the players will treat you with respect if they know you are good at their job. He was simply bad at the core of his job. That’s one of the reasons why I’m so high on Shurmur. You’re not going to be Mike Zimmers’ OC without having the skills.
It was the stubbornly way of keeping at it... Even Sully didn't really seem to see the obvious flaws.
His holiness the Dalai lama
Dam shame. I supported him before the hiring, and of course after 11-5, but it took me about 5 games to realize that he was totally lost and so was the team. It says something about his inadequacies as a person in relating to professional athletes, also his inability to adapt his scheme to the reality on the field, but it also says a lot about today's athlete, and how quickly a culture can turn from united in winning to shattered with losing.
Tough job.
but...he lost the team fast. really fast, especially on D. Ultimately, McAdoo holds the blame, but the D coaches, from top to bottom, were unable to rally their troops, if they even bothered to try. From the start, this was never McAdoo's team. The coaching staff was assembled/retained by Reese/Mara and when Mc was showing himself to be in over his head, the team, players and coaches alike, went through the motions and let him sink.
If it were me, I'd completely blow it up on the coaching staff. no holdovers. give Shurmur as much freedom as has been given others (not named McAdoo, who didn't have much freedom at all) to assemble a staff.
You could see it coming in preseason with Beck's (had an ancle or some shit in preseason before the knee or whatever it was that ended his season).
You could already see teams sitting back and murdering the shortened routes.
But macs whole scheme made this aspect and the line play even worse.
And, plenty were critical of him that season, degarxless of the record.
but...he lost the team fast. really fast, especially on D. Ultimately, McAdoo holds the blame, but the D coaches, from top to bottom, were unable to rally their troops, if they even bothered to try. From the start, this was never McAdoo's team. The coaching staff was assembled/retained by Reese/Mara and when Mc was showing himself to be in over his head, the team, players and coaches alike, went through the motions and let him sink.
If it were me, I'd completely blow it up on the coaching staff. no holdovers. give Shurmur as much freedom as has been given others (not named McAdoo, who didn't have much freedom at all) to assemble a staff.
Which is scary given chance that Spags returns as DC.
But it's time to remember that stretching the field only works if you have -both- the L.O.S. aaand the deep stuff, and without #1 you never ....get. #2.
How far can you stretch a rubber band with one hand?
OK, now use two hands and two arms...
And in that game...then an ankle.
Only after spags came over did they think about an adjustment, Then in the iggles they applied a temporary fix within the system... Turn.towards the ball catch, fall, avoid hit.. move chains.
Which made sense given crap system they were stuck with.
Not just player quality on OL. Yes, but in addition, very very thoughtless view on line play and pass pro and OL development in general. No running, no play action. No East West. Nothing. Just wait and catch a DL if you can.
D coaches are not stupid.
Necessity means most of the time.. And anything that is necessary can always be easily exploited. And....in this case...keep dbs back and beat the crap out of wrs was the easy and obvious thing to do given the quick short routes we needed.
How many games when we had a healthy OBJ we either didn't get him involved in the game in the first half, and then prayed for him to break the game with a 70 yard catch & run? Thats not an offense.
And further to this point, with so much defensive focus on OBJ, he could never devise a productive gameplan to take advantage of that with his other players.
The defensive gaffs, lack of efforts and suspensions this season were the result of numerous things including many on the team completely frustrated in the McAdoo, Eli and that offense doing absolutely nothing for several seasons now...
He changed a lot of things with the offense when he became HC and took out a lot of stuff Eli did well with. Yes, Eli improved his completion percentage and getting rid of the ball under McAdoo, but the offense lost a lot of its diversity and complexity. Defenses have said multiple times how easy it was to play against the Giants offense and read their playcalls the last two years.
Giants were a pain to watch play offense these last two years. The overall problems with McAdoo were there in the first year in regards to gameplans, and discipline. A terrific and stout defense drugged us from really looking deeper.
It's unreal. It's very rare to see a guy who has no idea what he's doing go all the way like that.
Offense are gazelle's. Defense are hungry lions. Gazelles need to drink.
Ideally you have Muddy River (runs)...Watering Hole (3 yard to 10yard passes) and Mountain Stream (long pass).
In macs offense the gazelles had only Watering Hole...where you think the Very Hungry Lions hung out?
there were some mitigating circumstances, but BM took a situation and made it worse. a good coach adds 2 + 2 and comes up with an output of 5. BM added 2 + 2 and came away with 3.
Quote:
there were plenty of signs last year that he wasn't going to cut it.
but...he lost the team fast. really fast, especially on D. Ultimately, McAdoo holds the blame, but the D coaches, from top to bottom, were unable to rally their troops, if they even bothered to try. From the start, this was never McAdoo's team. The coaching staff was assembled/retained by Reese/Mara and when Mc was showing himself to be in over his head, the team, players and coaches alike, went through the motions and let him sink.
If it were me, I'd completely blow it up on the coaching staff. no holdovers. give Shurmur as much freedom as has been given others (not named McAdoo, who didn't have much freedom at all) to assemble a staff.
Which is scary given chance that Spags returns as DC.
It's not scary at all. The fact that the defense carried the team all of last year with the offense giving them almost nothing says that they kept up their motivation and kept picking the offense up over and over again. When you do that for a WHOLE SEASON, and come into the next season with high hopes that things are going to get better and they get even worse, that's an absolute killer. And yet, most of the defense still played hard and competed. All of the flare ups were dealt with professionally and you had guys like DRC and Jenkins make amends and acknowledge their mistakes.
Everyone has a limit. It's a tremendous sacrifice to work so hard and you are doing your job and not get rewarded for it because another whole unit on the team is so spectacularly failing.
Whether or not Spags returns, the defense will be fine. Spags is a good coach. But you can't keep asking your defense to win games by themselves forever.
The WCO was a bad fit because of the OL and Eli factors, not only Eli's lack of mobility but because short touch and screen passes have long been a lesser talent.
To stubborness: I think McAdoo decided early on, with the roster limitations, that he was going to go to quick drops and WCO approach to attenuate the inability of the OL to run block and pass protect, even if this was a square peg in round hole. Once it became clear that this approach was not working, he could not figure out a Plan B. Given the roster limitations, and as Chip said above when your receivers go down leaving, at best, marginal NFL talent, good things were not happening.
I liked McAdoo, was hoping he would do well, but the lack of winning and clubhouse issues overwhelmed. At the end of the day, I am glad '17 led to a start on housecleaning, starting with the GM, whose ineptitude led to the dismissal of two HCs.
Just because the guy is smart, doesn't make him head coaching material. There are too many other things that go with the job. You would have thought that looking back and seeing what happened with Handley would have tipped them off. He, apparently, was really smart too and had no business being hired as a head coach.
It's unreal. It's very rare to see a guy who has no idea what he's doing go all the way like that.
this to me remains the too little discussed part of all this. he was bad at what got him the job in the first place - designing an offense. how did no one in the giants organization see that?
TC took the blame for all that.....The next season Jerry opens up the Giant wallet, and the new free agents on defense play very well....the defense was fixed, temporarily.....Mac inherited a defense that could hold fourth quarter leads with an easy schedule...
The offense however, fell off a cliff......The TC/Mac mix worked.....the Mac offense did not.....and despite all the shortcomings of that offense, there were no changes to it the following year.....yes some of the parts were changed, but the philosophy/strategy remained the same....it didn't work the previous year, and yet no changes were made....
Mac gave us an early look at how inept he was running this team.....the first game against Dallas.....he knew he wouldn't have OBj, but it looked like he didn't plan for it....it was the same offense that looked inept in preseason....and yes, Jerry was also part of the problem, with the players that were on this team...But Mac showed he couldn't do more with less....
And yes, the majority of BBI felt the Giants needed a change after 2015....TC was blamed for some of the plays his players made.....and every one basically felt, even though Mac, had very little experience, he would be helpful to Eli and the offense as they went through this transition....all of us on BBI couldn't have been more wrong....
You could see the disgust on the defensive players faces early this season, after the constant 3 and outs putting them right back on the field.
This^. You can't be an offensive coach and have that shitty of a unit for 3 years.
trueblueinpw : 11:11 am : link : reply
Remember when Jerry Reese said McAdoo was the smartest guy in the room? What a pathetic troupe of ass clowns. One of the most ridiculous things about the McAdoo era was all the people here on BBI that wrote about how McAdoo designed the offense to be low scoring because he knew the defense was the strength of the team.
I believe his supporters said, the reason why the offense scored less was because this offense took less risks, and did not turn the ball over.....and that helped the defense hold leads....
offense could barely score 14pts against inferior competition
defense carried team against inferior competition after spending a kings ransom on the defense
Beckham was playing
Beckham did not show up in playoff game
Hence my mirage comment about McAdoo. Hindsight is 20/20 bet I would think that TC would have not far better.
Not sure how anyone
Yeah, you’re right. But I think my overall point stands: McAdoo had no Xs and Os acumen. The was no “secret plan”, there wasn’t a dearth of talent that foiled Mc’s brilliant offensive schemes. And there were plenty of people who were scratching their heads about McAdoo early last year. The radio guys identified the 11 personnel sets during the 4th game of the season last year. And they were really just reporting what D-cos were chattering about probably from the season before. McAd’oh was clearly inept and then there plenty of people insisting his lackluster offense was somehow by design. For goodness sake, Reese said he was the smartest guy in room and knew more than everyone in the organization. Amazing! Absurd! Anyway, I’m glad he’s gone.
if we win that game in Sept our whole season is different
if we win that game in Sept our whole season is different
Post hoc ergo propter hoc
look it up chucklehead...
And if they are going to play Eli this year he needs to play the whole preseason too he wasn’t near ready this year.
Y1 : favorable calls..bounces...injury free+/-...the schedule.
Y2.: almost total opposite..
With a poor OL and No LBs both years...that average record is very likely what they were.
Y2 revealed what type HC we really had: stubborn and unflexible.
Add lack of help from the GM y1-y2...
KABOOM!!!!
Not his stupid hair, his goofy nickname for the ball, the idiotic song and dance about who was calling plays in the preseason.
He's a dipshit - and those are easy to spot and tough to respect.
Defining moment of the season is when an opponent told OBJ we know where you're going with your plays.
Season was over at that moment.
Second he was very arrogant with the public/press, and also in regards to his approach. He never adapted the playbook or gameplanning, and he came over as a jerk to the media and public. Losing support of the fans and press was big. Plus opposing coaches outmanuerved him on the field because he didn't adapt. The players could see this.
It’s all good. Hopefully they all learned something as did the two doors in the owners’ box.
+100
-Players who are not Matched to The Offense...give me back the lower Comp % Vertical Attack for the Eli
-Refusal to Use Personnel on Hand...slow moves at RB, non-Use of TE and Multiple Sets
The Guys who bailed are almost unavoidable--that's what Vets do when you lose
The Owner Blamed the GM and Coach for the Shitstorm... He's still here
What you're left with is a VAST mis-measurement of Talent---They cannot O-Line, LineBacker, Kick, Punt, RB....and they are Thin and not athletic enough all over the Field.
,,,,and He was an arrogant Schmuck!!!...he'ss get another shot.
Spider56 : 1/20/2018 7:59 am : link : reply
From my view, it all started with that GD boat trip before the loss to the Packers ... it was all down hill after that.
That boat trip has really been an IQ test of sorts.
I think the arrogance was more of a reaction to the pressure he was under when things did not go as planned. Most called out his lack of experience and the lame TC departure and selection. Most also called out the rebuild. They should done what we are doing now 2 years ago. The owners, GM, etc are as much to blame as McAdoo. Cowardice and incompetence. TC reaction told you everything you needed to know about the handling. Question becomes once the high fives are finished with Shurmur do we see a change for the better or more of the same?