I think I'm kinda all in on him. The perfect scenario is trade down a couple spots for what will hopefully be a sizable haul, and plug in maybe the best OL prospect I've ever seen.
https://youtu.be/7lcn3dZvgdQ
Here's a (legit) film session with the only "internet scout" who's word I put any stock into. Recommend everyone watches his cut ups because he really knows the game and how to PROPERLY evaluate prospects.. Voch Lombardi, excuse the guest he had on in the background of this particular video
But anyway.. for those wanting a RB.. I'm with you, and I do really like Saquon a lot and I firmly believe franchise RBs have infinite value. I remember SCREAMING at my TV for us to take Gurley at 9 that one year (kill me) BUT there is a back in this draft who could likely be had a good bit later and from what I've seen.. MIGHT BE BETTER than Saquon and that is Derrius Guice from LSU, if we could come away with him and Nelson (trade back into the first if need be) our offense will look a WHOLE LOT different next year.
For those who say "RBs are a dime a dozen", well.. this phrase needs to stop being thrown around, maybe average RBs are. However there is nothing dime a dozen about any elite RBs, no elite players at any position in football are a dime a dozen and they all have tremendous value especially a franchise RB which can save an offense. Everyone is always looking for this mythical "formula" to building a team well.. notice where ALL the teams with franchise RBs are.. the playoffs, the only teams that I would say have elite RBs are the Steelers, Falcons, Rams.. and maybe the cowboys, but look what happened to that team without Zeke. Side note I think Fournette will be next, I was absolutely in love with him coming out of LSU. But my point here is there is an incredibly small amount of franchise backs in the league, and each of them just so happen to be a major component of an elite offense.. hmm correlation maybe? I think the league has become smart enough to get past that period of stupidity dubbed the "devaluation of RBs"
Moving on to those of you who want a QB, as most of you can tell by my name, I'm a huge Eli fan.. prob the biggest in the world actually, I know what I see and I FIRMLY believe he is a top 10 QB of all time, AND I believe he is still an elite QB as of TODAY.. but this is not meant to turn into a pattented Eli debate, what I'm trying to say is.. im with you on wanting a QB of the future (if possible) i understand Eli is 37 and like all of you i would love nothing more than a Favre to Rodgers type situation. It's a rare opportunity to be at this spot in the draft and when it comes to this you need to capitalize on your shot when you get it, however.. I don't think this is the year unfortunately, Rosen is the only one I could make any sort of case for and even him I have serious questions about. This QB class is way over rated, guys like Mayfield and Jackson are not real QUARTERBACKS.. at all, they are college superstars, seen a million on these guys, we do this with QBs like them every year, they don't have NFL mechanics, they can't go through progressions and run an NFL offense, all they're good for is some gimmicky BS play calls that don't win anything unless they have a top 5 defense AND top 5 run game to carry them.. which like them, thanks to all their running around, doesn't last.. we've seen this time and time and time again, I'm wondering when everyone is finally gonna catch on, I still hear people saying "the game is evolving" and scrambling QBs are the future lol the funny part is they're some how oblivious to the fact that has been said for THIRTY YEARS, THIRTY FUCKIN YEARS and it still hasn't happened.. meanwhile you look at the QB winning the SB every year throughout the history of the NFL and it's pocket passer, pocket passer, pocket passer, pocket passer, pocket passer, and recent history has been no different but I digress.. neither of them are NFL talent and Mayfield on top of not having the talent.. is not a face of a franchise, it's funny that his play alone shows he's not a real QB, but to compound that his personality shows he's not a real QB in that other sense which is just as important.. As for Allen and Darnold,at first glance they look like solid (not great prospects) but both are fatally flawed and are HUGE gambles, if they turn out to be average that would be a win, spending a #2 pick on any of these guys is something that sets a franchise back, except for Rosen.. him you could make a case for because he's safe but I don't think he'll ever be elite, and also QB is the 1 position I don't wanna hear about any personality or character concerns.. BUT I don't know if his are real, one scout was quoted saying "he's the biggest ass hole in the world (god damn) and he always thinks he's the smartest person in the room and isn't afraid to let everyone know" which is quite the indictment but I won't put 100% stock into this since I don't really know.. but I'm a GM I'm doing all kinds of homework on it
I guess all in all my point is I don't think we're in a position to gamble with this #2 pick, and Nelson is the most sure fire prospect in this draft.. people devalue guards because it's not a glory position and their work is often overlooked by fans but you can bet your ass Zack Martin is worth a top 5 pick, and this guy could be even better. It's especially worth it when you consider the lack of talented olineman in the league right now, theres only one guy availible (in the draft OR free agency) this off season who could come in on the Oline and give you all pro level play, and you can be sure.. ill take that anywhere on the oline, and that man is Nelson
Agreed. If they're both gone I wouldn't mind grabbing Penny from SD St. Guy reminds me of Rodney Hampton and I'd take that in a heartbeat.
That’s easy.
Trade back to 5 with Denver and take Nelson. Then take Guice at 34 if there or trade back into round 1 and take Guice.
But I would not trade back unless we get Denver’s # 1 in 2019 and their 2nd round pick this year.
I also think Barkley is the top prospect this year. Fitzpatrick is # 2 and Nelson 3. The only player I would take at 2 is Barkley or a qb.
Not opposed to just taking Nelson at 2 but I really would like to squeeze some extra resources from this #2 pick, this roster has an absurd amount of holes to fill
But I think the Colts would have a tough time passing on Saquon, and if the Broncos traded up with us it would have to be for a QB I would think, my guess is it would play out something like
Browns- Darnold
Broncos- Rosen
Colts- Saquon
Browns- Fitzpatrick?
Giants- Nelson
But let's not all get too adamant about who's going in which spot because we obviously have no idea
If we stay at 2 I think Rosen is the pick.
Fine by me.
I signed up today, this thread was my first post, I see you're very welcoming of your own kind... lol
Been a religious giants fan since I was 5 years old (1995) and have spent my life studying and playing (9 years) the game of football, it has always been my #1 passion in life
Who is then?
Wow, really? I respect your opinion very much Sy but it Nelson is not the best OG in the draft then who is? I'll venture to guess Hernandez?
I actually like Price more as he is more versatile. Price also plays very well against big physical DT's which is pretty rare for a rookie. Usually offensive linemen have to get stronger before they can make a significant impact in the NFL. Price could step in and start day one. I am not saying Nelson can't but I think it is a huge mistake to take Nelson so high when the Giants can come away iwth a QB plus get Price with a trade up from their 2nd round pick.
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And I don't think he is the top OG in this class.
Wow, really? I respect your opinion very much Sy but it Nelson is not the best OG in the draft then who is? I'll venture to guess Hernandez?
I think it will be Braden Smith
Posts an awful lot like Elite Mobster, no?
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In comment 13798839 Sy'56 said:
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And I don't think he is the top OG in this class.
Wow, really? I respect your opinion very much Sy but it Nelson is not the best OG in the draft then who is? I'll venture to guess Hernandez?
I think it will be Braden Smith
I'll second that (not that Sy needs my confirmation)!
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In comment 13798839 Sy'56 said:
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And I don't think he is the top OG in this class.
Wow, really? I respect your opinion very much Sy but it Nelson is not the best OG in the draft then who is? I'll venture to guess Hernandez?
I think it will be Braden Smith
Ok, so where do you rank Nelson overall? You think Smith is a first round guard?
He also has the heaviest HANDS, I don't need ballerina feet on my guards, chop it up in small areas and win when you get hands on him which.. As you can see from the film, when Nelson gets hands on you, game over.. exactly the trait I want in at least one of my guards
Though it depends on your scheme too, me.. I personally would run a system heavy on zone blocking so I don't need all kinda footwork out of my guards
Though from what I've seen Nelson doesn't look too out of his element in space, he hits second level blocks as well as anyone I've seen, though this is probably more attributed to awareness and football IQ more than anything else (well at least landing the blow, him finishing you is all functional strength)
As Voch pointed out he could things like hug the line tighter on pulls but as far as his play in space and on the move goes I didn't see any uncoachable flaws
He obviously doesn't have left tackle feet, he's a guard and he's 330lbs, he's there to move people.. and has a nastiness that our line currently lacks, this team needs more FOOTBALL PLAYERS like him
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But both have heavy feet, and when they have to move in an unplanned, reaction type way, they don't look good. Strong upper bodies, really good at assignment football, but both have warts when it comes to adjustments.
He also has the heaviest HANDS, I don't need ballerina feet on my guards, chop it up in small areas and win when you get hands on him which.. As you can see from the film, when Nelson gets hands on you, game over.. exactly the trait I want in at least one of my guards
Though it depends on your scheme too, me.. I personally would run a system heavy on zone blocking so I don't need all kinda footwork out of my guards
Though from what I've seen Nelson doesn't look too out of his element in space, he hits second level blocks as well as anyone I've seen, though this is probably more attributed to awareness and football IQ more than anything else (well at least landing the blow, him finishing you is all functional strength)
As Voch pointed out he could things like hug the line tighter on pulls but as far as his play in space and on the move goes I didn't see any uncoachable flaws
He obviously doesn't have left tackle feet, he's a guard and he's 330lbs, he's there to move people.. and has a nastiness that our line currently lacks, this team needs more FOOTBALL PLAYERS like him
I would add that in the pass game, Nelson stones people at the line. He is a sturdy, strong, athletic beast.
Wynn might be my #2 OG behind Smith, ahead of Nelson.
Big week for him in Mobile
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In comment 13798882 Sy'56 said:
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But both have heavy feet, and when they have to move in an unplanned, reaction type way, they don't look good. Strong upper bodies, really good at assignment football, but both have warts when it comes to adjustments.
He also has the heaviest HANDS, I don't need ballerina feet on my guards, chop it up in small areas and win when you get hands on him which.. As you can see from the film, when Nelson gets hands on you, game over.. exactly the trait I want in at least one of my guards
Though it depends on your scheme too, me.. I personally would run a system heavy on zone blocking so I don't need all kinda footwork out of my guards
Though from what I've seen Nelson doesn't look too out of his element in space, he hits second level blocks as well as anyone I've seen, though this is probably more attributed to awareness and football IQ more than anything else (well at least landing the blow, him finishing you is all functional strength)
As Voch pointed out he could things like hug the line tighter on pulls but as far as his play in space and on the move goes I didn't see any uncoachable flaws
He obviously doesn't have left tackle feet, he's a guard and he's 330lbs, he's there to move people.. and has a nastiness that our line currently lacks, this team needs more FOOTBALL PLAYERS like him
I would add that in the pass game, Nelson stones people at the line. He is a sturdy, strong, athletic beast.
Except when the move laterally
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In comment 13798863 Rjanyg said:
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In comment 13798839 Sy'56 said:
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And I don't think he is the top OG in this class.
Wow, really? I respect your opinion very much Sy but it Nelson is not the best OG in the draft then who is? I'll venture to guess Hernandez?
I think it will be Braden Smith
Ok, so where do you rank Nelson overall? You think Smith is a first round guard?
I think Smith will have a 1st round grade for me.
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In comment 13798882 Sy'56 said:
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But both have heavy feet, and when they have to move in an unplanned, reaction type way, they don't look good. Strong upper bodies, really good at assignment football, but both have warts when it comes to adjustments.
He also has the heaviest HANDS, I don't need ballerina feet on my guards, chop it up in small areas and win when you get hands on him which.. As you can see from the film, when Nelson gets hands on you, game over.. exactly the trait I want in at least one of my guards
Though it depends on your scheme too, me.. I personally would run a system heavy on zone blocking so I don't need all kinda footwork out of my guards
Though from what I've seen Nelson doesn't look too out of his element in space, he hits second level blocks as well as anyone I've seen, though this is probably more attributed to awareness and football IQ more than anything else (well at least landing the blow, him finishing you is all functional strength)
As Voch pointed out he could things like hug the line tighter on pulls but as far as his play in space and on the move goes I didn't see any uncoachable flaws
He obviously doesn't have left tackle feet, he's a guard and he's 330lbs, he's there to move people.. and has a nastiness that our line currently lacks, this team needs more FOOTBALL PLAYERS like him
I would add that in the pass game, Nelson stones people at the line. He is a sturdy, strong, athletic beast.
I will concede he's not a total "freak" athletically but he's a prototype for the kind of guard he is, which again the kind of offense I'd wanna run.. he'd fit like a dream
And yes he does, lower body stregnth, chop it up, set into the base.. you go nowhere, hes out breaking wills
Hes so strong he often mauls people to death without even getting his hands inside
If you think the top three picks are:
Darnold, Rosen, Barkley,
Then Chubb, Fitz, Nelson, Allen, Mayfield would all be in the mix. Sy, you may have someone else in there.
PLUS
You would would likely acquire a couple twos and a one for next year - or the equivalent. Sets you up to trade back into the first round this year or trade up next year if it does not go well.
I will say, I havnt watched much of them, havnt dug crazy deep into this draft yet, I've heard good things about Price.
But in comparison to every other prospect I've ever seen I know where he's at, at least in my view.. and if I AM right, then the right move would be to take him.. though I get that you might wanna get "better value" at the position later (like me wanting Guice late 1st as opposed Saquon early 1st) I just think Nelson is that good of a prospect that it's worth spending a top 5 pick on, even if good players at the same position will be availible later, which you could pretty much say about any position when you're picking that high lol but most people want something a little more exciting than a guard, I personally think it's the right move though fwiw
You want all the guys who were picked ahead of Aaron Rodgers over Aaron Rodgers?
Having a great OG is a nice thing to have, but if he's protecting a mediocre QB, it won't matter. No OG is a game-changer.
Having a great RB is also nice to have, too. But the position just doesn't have the value associated with it.
You want all the guys who were picked ahead of Aaron Rodgers over Aaron Rodgers?
Having a great OG is a nice thing to have, but if he's protecting a mediocre QB, it won't matter. No OG is a game-changer.
Having a great RB is also nice to have, too. But the position just doesn't have the value associated with it.
At the time I said Rodgers was a lot better than Smith and should be the #1 pick, pretty sure a good amount of people thought the same, scouting QBs ain't as hard as everyone makes it
The next 2 paragraphs are non sense, sorry.. no mediocre QB here, there are most certainly guards who are game changers, and the value of franchise RBs is prove
You wouldn't take Zack Martin or Lev Bell top 5? Silliness
Don't know who that is but can promise it's not me lol
Fair, we all know the importance of a QB
But I also reserve the possibility that Eli could have 3 or maybe even more good years left in him.. not that this would necessarily stop me if there was a QB good enough.. but I don't see one, and usually if there's one that good they're hard to miss
If I was all set at QB, maybe, sure. More likely I'd take a pass rusher. OR a tackle.
Giants took Beckham over Martin. Aaron Donald went ahead of him. 3 other tackles went ahead of him too.
Sorry. Positions don't all have the same value. And great OGs and great RBs come in all rounds -- generally more frequently than QBs, DEs and OTs.
Seems a positive kid also.
Based on his conference Nelson seems exactly like the kinda guy he'd want
There were a lot of lukewarm reviews on Ramczyk and Andrus Peat.
Laremy Tunsil was the best LT prospect in years and he's been largely average as a pro.
Difference is I'm not basing my opinion on hype, only what I see, and Martin was pretty damn hyped, everyone knew he'd be a guard and he was called by many a rare prospect, his talent level was far from a secret.. and the only reason he fell as far as he did is the positional value bias.. which he exposes the folly of
And I'm not at all opposed to Barkley
There were a lot of lukewarm reviews on Ramczyk and Andrus Peat.
Laremy Tunsil was the best LT prospect in years and he's been largely average as a pro.
That's a little silly, I remember tons and tons of "revolutionary prospects" in which the obvious outcome came to fruition (they became gods) this isn't as hard as some make it
Not putting stock into is one thing, though I would hope you actually make a determination for yourself beyond a simple label, but to consider hype a red flag is a little rediculous, when you see a Todd Gurley or a Jalen Ramsey.. thats likely the reaction people are gonna come away with lol