Normally I am skeptical of favoritism rants, but the officiating again seems to favor NE. I thought there were some very questionable calls on JAGS, non calls on NE, especially in PI. JAGS flagged for breathing, Chung shown with a fistful of jersey and not even a holidng call ie: "What I thought was curious was the officials not calling ANY pass interference penalties against the Patriots' defensive backs, especially on two key plays where Marcedes Lewis was open, tried to make a play and got mugged. There was also a holding call completely missed on the Patriots' final first-down play of the game"
no offensive holding on 38 pass attempts?
this one in particular hurt: "And one play in particular stood out to people, as the Jags might have been robbed of a touchdown thanks to an early whistle after Myles Jack robbed Dion Lewis of the ball following a wild Patriots offensive play."
Everyone thinks officials celebrated with Patriots, handed them AFC championship - (
New Window )
I don't think it cost the Jags the game. They looked like a young team that hadn't quite figured out how to seal the deal against such a big game battle tested opponent.
don't be ridiculous. but watching the game seems calls and non calls were one sided.
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got together before the game and agreed amongst themselves not to call anything on NE?
don't be ridiculous. but watching the game seems calls and non calls were one sided.
So if they didn't agree to it, how did all of them just not call anything on the Pats? You know any of them can throw flags. Did they all independently just favor NE and refuse to throw flags?
Sorry, Victor. You are the one suggesting a ridiculous conspiracy.
I don't think it cost the Jags the game. They looked like a young team that hadn't quite figured out how to seal the deal against such a big game battle tested opponent.
good point Torrag. I thought going in that the Jags had a chance and would make it a game. And they did. Bortles in particular seemed a litle overwhelmed in the 2nd half.
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got together before the game and agreed amongst themselves not to call anything on NE?
don't be ridiculous. but watching the game seems calls and non calls were one sided.
No doubt. One call on them all game and that was on special teams? Seems to me they were giving the Pats the benefit of the doubt on plays and called similar things on the Jags.
How did they miss the obvious pick on the Pats first drive on the 3rd down pass down the text sideline? Big play to keep the drive going, get the Pats some momentum and an early FG. Looked to me like they could've been called for 1 or 2 penalties on their DB's too.
New England: 10 yds on 1 penalty.
Anybody who can't see this is blind!!!!
And I am not a Pats hater, I admire and will always root for Belichick against almost anyone but the Giants. I was rooting for the Jags yesterday though. I like the way they play, and TC is there.
However , the Jags did catch the short end of it, calls wide. The Pats have had a playoff game with 0 penalties . But the delay of game coming off a Patriot time out the last Jags possession of the first half, cost them dearly. Maybe 21-3. Who is to blame there? Bortles .
And they let the Jags CBs (Bouye and Ramsey) get away with quite a bit of contact.
yep. They had to call the one on Gronk. The others were ticky tacky I thought.
It would be interesting if instead of just saying the refs want the patriots to win, somebody would suggest why they would all jeopardize these highly sought after jobs to do that.
Link - ( New Window )
I was part of a study years ago that used various methods to prove this out and the results were undeniable. It is the same tenet that questions why Jordan or LeBron James get the calls or why other star players seemingly get away with penalties or fouls.
It is the human side of officiating that is inherently flawed, because our minds have been trained to expect certain things and it clouds judgment
Bortles is a mixed bag, like most quarterbacks are. Belichick (not Patricia-please-who does as he’s told) took away Bortles’ ability to make plays with his legs . They didn’t do the 2-man read at all. His passes are generally a little bit off. Sometimes that can be overcome. Sometimes it can’t.
What most people are saying is that during in-game conditions, too many officiating crews appear to be making (or withholding) some judgments and decisions (especially critical ones in close games) based on factors other than clear visual evidence and the rule book. When you keep seeing the same teams and players getting this suspicious treatment over the years, it's hard not to wonder what's going on.
There's an abundance of examples that suggest that NFL officiating mistakes are due to more than just human error, especially those that involve reviews and coach's challenges, when everything is slowed down and viewed from multiple angles. There are also far too many examples of an official staring right at a blatant penalty in the open field and not throwing a flag. I think it's reasonable to ask, "What the hell is going on?" in light of all these examples over the years.
The NFL is, first and foremost, an entertainment business. In my opinion, believing that these multi-billion-dollar entertainment empires known as sports leagues are willing to just let everything play out naturally without trying to subtly manipulate things toward what they know brings the most revenue is naive.
What most people are saying is that during in-game conditions, too many officiating crews appear to be making (or withholding) some judgments and decisions (especially critical ones in close games) based on factors other than clear visual evidence and the rule book. When you keep seeing the same teams and players getting this suspicious treatment over the years, it's hard not to wonder what's going on.
There's an abundance of examples that suggest that NFL officiating mistakes are due to more than just human error, especially those that involve reviews and coach's challenges, when everything is slowed down and viewed from multiple angles. There are also far too many examples of an official staring right at a blatant penalty in the open field and not throwing a flag. I think it's reasonable to ask, "What the hell is going on?" in light of all these examples over the years.
The NFL is, first and foremost, an entertainment business. In my opinion, believing that these multi-billion-dollar entertainment empires known as sports leagues are willing to just let everything play out naturally without trying to subtly manipulate things toward what they know brings the most revenue is naive.
Good explanation. Did no official see the blatant holding by the Pats OLs throughout the 2nd half? Not ONE holding penalty?
agree. that one was a doozy.
What most people are saying is that during in-game conditions, too many officiating crews appear to be making (or withholding) some judgments and decisions (especially critical ones in close games) based on factors other than clear visual evidence and the rule book. When you keep seeing the same teams and players getting this suspicious treatment over the years, it's hard not to wonder what's going on.
There's an abundance of examples that suggest that NFL officiating mistakes are due to more than just human error, especially those that involve reviews and coach's challenges, when everything is slowed down and viewed from multiple angles. There are also far too many examples of an official staring right at a blatant penalty in the open field and not throwing a flag. I think it's reasonable to ask, "What the hell is going on?" in light of all these examples over the years.
The NFL is, first and foremost, an entertainment business. In my opinion, believing that these multi-billion-dollar entertainment empires known as sports leagues are willing to just let everything play out naturally without trying to subtly manipulate things toward what they know brings the most revenue is naive.
So you are in the camp that it is a conspiracy "to subtly manipulate things" toward a desired outcome? Doesn't that suggest league directed collusion?
And why does the Patriots winning yesterday generate more revenue for the league? Viewership for the Superbowl will fall off if the Patriots aren't in it? That is beyond silly.
I was part of a study years ago that used various methods to prove this out and the results were undeniable. It is the same tenet that questions why Jordan or LeBron James get the calls or why other star players seemingly get away with penalties or fouls.
It is the human side of officiating that is inherently flawed, because our minds have been trained to expect certain things and it clouds judgment
If this is true, why was NE middle of the pack in penalties against this year? Why did this effect only take place in a playoff game?
I don't question what you say about biases for superstars in all sports because that exists. I have never heard it suggested for an entire team, especially in football where most of the players are unknown to the refs.
The Pats are still going to get called for penalties and infractions, but there is probably more leeway given if one believes there is a subconscious impact. And let's not act as if the regular season was free of controversy. They had disputed wins vs. the Jets and Bills.
Perception can alter what an official sees. Where you see a hold, the official may subconsciously think a Pats OL guy has perfect technique and not throw the flag.
By the way, the Pats were among the league leaders in non-subjective penalties such as illegal shifts and false starts/offsides.
In basketball it's so bad and so blatant and so *real*, that their respective unions and the League Office have to get together to fix it. Biggest reason is that players respond to inequities and then officials take the response personal and factor their personal anger into their calls and then there are greater inequities...and so on...and so on...
I think in football it's more a case of incompetence or maybe laziness because they figure that the replay will do all the work.
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If this is true, why was NE middle of the pack in penalties against this year? Why did this effect only take place in a playoff game?
The Pats are still going to get called for penalties and infractions, but there is probably more leeway given if one believes there is a subconscious impact. And let's not act as if the regular season was free of controversy. They had disputed wins vs. the Jets and Bills.
Perception can alter what an official sees. Where you see a hold, the official may subconsciously think a Pats OL guy has perfect technique and not throw the flag.
By the way, the Pats were among the league leaders in non-subjective penalties such as illegal shifts and false starts/offsides.
Would the same apply in the inverse to a team like Cleveland, who would get more calls against them based on the expected level of futility? They were also middle of the road on penalties called in 2017.
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it doesn't mean that person is suggesting predetermined outcomes, outright fixes, and shadowy conspiracies. It also doesn't mean that person believes that there is no fair officiating in the NFL. It also doesn't mean that the person is claiming that great teams haven't earned much of their success.
What most people are saying is that during in-game conditions, too many officiating crews appear to be making (or withholding) some judgments and decisions (especially critical ones in close games) based on factors other than clear visual evidence and the rule book. When you keep seeing the same teams and players getting this suspicious treatment over the years, it's hard not to wonder what's going on.
There's an abundance of examples that suggest that NFL officiating mistakes are due to more than just human error, especially those that involve reviews and coach's challenges, when everything is slowed down and viewed from multiple angles. There are also far too many examples of an official staring right at a blatant penalty in the open field and not throwing a flag. I think it's reasonable to ask, "What the hell is going on?" in light of all these examples over the years.
The NFL is, first and foremost, an entertainment business. In my opinion, believing that these multi-billion-dollar entertainment empires known as sports leagues are willing to just let everything play out naturally without trying to subtly manipulate things toward what they know brings the most revenue is naive.
So you are in the camp that it is a conspiracy "to subtly manipulate things" toward a desired outcome? Doesn't that suggest league directed collusion?
And why does the Patriots winning yesterday generate more revenue for the league? Viewership for the Superbowl will fall off if the Patriots aren't in it? That is beyond silly.
No and no.
You don't really seem worth discussing this with any further.
Looking at totals basically tells us little. Even looking at yardage can be misleading because a long PI can skew results, but a team with 6 penalties for 30 yards probably had less subjective calls than a team with 6 penalties for 97 yards.
And they let the Jags CBs (Bouye and Ramsey) get away with quite a bit of contact.
It was a bang bang play and Jack rolled over and got up quickly. I'm not so sure it was clear contact but maybe it was. However we've all seen plays where it looked like a knee was down or there was contact and the play was allowed to continue and let replay sort it out.
I'm not so sure the complaints are with them getting screwed by the result as they are about the quick whistle in the Pats favor and them getting the benefit of any possible doubt on the play.
In real time it certainly appeared to be a quick whistle to me and a play I wouldn't have questioned why they let it continue had they let it play out, and let replay sort it.
C'mon. You might have some valid points but give credit where it's due. The guy played a good game yesterday, and throughout the playoffs. Didn't turn it over once and that's pretty damn impressive,IMO. Especially going into Pittsburgh and Foxboro.
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In comment 13800990 Mr. Bungle said:
if the Patriots aren't in it? That is beyond silly.
No and no.
You don't really seem worth discussing this with any further.
Good rebuttal! Well thought out. You can put your tinfoil hat back on now, champ!
New England: 10 yds on 1 penalty.
Anybody who can't see this is blind!!!!
Maybe, just maybe the Jags committed more penalties..Stop crying.
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it doesn't mean that person is suggesting predetermined outcomes, outright fixes, and shadowy conspiracies. It also doesn't mean that person believes that there is no fair officiating in the NFL. It also doesn't mean that the person is claiming that great teams haven't earned much of their success.
What most people are saying is that during in-game conditions, too many officiating crews appear to be making (or withholding) some judgments and decisions (especially critical ones in close games) based on factors other than clear visual evidence and the rule book. When you keep seeing the same teams and players getting this suspicious treatment over the years, it's hard not to wonder what's going on.
There's an abundance of examples that suggest that NFL officiating mistakes are due to more than just human error, especially those that involve reviews and coach's challenges, when everything is slowed down and viewed from multiple angles. There are also far too many examples of an official staring right at a blatant penalty in the open field and not throwing a flag. I think it's reasonable to ask, "What the hell is going on?" in light of all these examples over the years.
The NFL is, first and foremost, an entertainment business. In my opinion, believing that these multi-billion-dollar entertainment empires known as sports leagues are willing to just let everything play out naturally without trying to subtly manipulate things toward what they know brings the most revenue is naive.
Good explanation. Did no official see the blatant holding by the Pats OLs throughout the 2nd half? Not ONE holding penalty?
Man, I think there was a 3rd down play during the Pats comeback where the RT literally had the DE for the Jags in a choke hold. I was screaming at the TV and many people at the bar saw it and agreed. Yet no call. It was maddening.
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In comment 13801038 Mike from Ohio said:
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In comment 13800990 Mr. Bungle said:
if the Patriots aren't in it? That is beyond silly.
No and no.
You don't really seem worth discussing this with any further.
Good rebuttal! Well thought out. You can put your tinfoil hat back on now, champ!
Just proving my point further.
Try not to take such trivial things so personally. It's a childish look.
Jags had 5 PI penalties ALL Year and had 2 against NE
both guys were playing handies down the sideline and DB kept his position - WR ran himself out of bounds .. just a terrible call ..
Talked with a bunch of Pats fans today. They thought the hit on Gronk was bang-bang. Yes helmets hit, but so did shoulders. They said if Church went low he could have injured Gronks knees and everyone would have been screaming about intent to injure. Call was good by the letter of the law, but no way Church intentionally head butted Gronk. I don't like that penalty on bang-bang plays. It is ok when you aim at the head, but two guys colliding should be just football.
Jags did themselves in with the 3rd and 18 and the Ramsey PI in the 4th. Plus the OC was not aggressive enough in the 2nd half.
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Jacksonville: 98 yds on 10 penalties.
New England: 10 yds on 1 penalty.
Anybody who can't see this is blind!!!!
So 32 yards came on one pass interference call that was legit and 15 yards came on the personal foul to Gronk which was legit.
Maybe, just maybe the Jags committed more penalties..Stop crying.
Who’s crying? Don’t be such a condescending dick. I merely pointed out the stat. You don’t think it’s hard to swallow that the Patriots only committed one infraction the whole game? Not one offensive holding call, which I know is extremely subjective, in the entire game? The league protects Brady. It’s obvious.
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In comment 13800953 wonderback said:
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Jacksonville: 98 yds on 10 penalties.
New England: 10 yds on 1 penalty.
Anybody who can't see this is blind!!!!
So 32 yards came on one pass interference call that was legit and 15 yards came on the personal foul to Gronk which was legit.
Maybe, just maybe the Jags committed more penalties..Stop crying.
Who’s crying? Don’t be such a condescending dick. I merely pointed out the stat. You don’t think it’s hard to swallow that the Patriots only committed one infraction the whole game? Not one offensive holding call, which I know is extremely subjective, in the entire game? The league protects Brady. It’s obvious.
Dion Lewis got a first down on 3rd and 9, when the Jags would've gotten the ball back if they made the stop. There was an obvious and egregious hold on that play by Dwayne Allen #83 on Jaguars' LB #50 Telvin Smith that should've backed them up to 3rd and 19. Had it not been for the hold, there is a very good chance Smith makes that tackle and the Patriots punt, giving the Jaguars about 90 seconds to score with no timeouts. It would've been a tall order, but they would've had a chance. The refs blew that call and robbed them of that chance.
The Myles Jack play I have no issue with. It was very close and when I saw it live I didn't even know if the runner was down before the ball came out or if Jack was touched down even if it was a fumble. That's so close you can't criticize the refs on that...very hard to see what happened there.
The hold on Allen should've been very easy to see, and the referee didn't throw it, and he probably saw it and didn't throw it. And the reason for that is because officials don't want to inject their influence too much near the end of the game and decide it on penalties. But it was just as bad not throwing it when it is a clear penalty. I don't think there is pro-New England bias by officials. But they do deserve criticism for some calls in this game, and they did cost the Jaguars, even if they weren't the only reason the Jags lost.
I was part of a study years ago that used various methods to prove this out and the results were undeniable. It is the same tenet that questions why Jordan or LeBron James get the calls or why other star players seemingly get away with penalties or fouls.
It is the human side of officiating that is inherently flawed, because our minds have been trained to expect certain things and it clouds judgment
good post !
And apparently they don't know what a fumble is....
They obviously colluded to call that a fumble against the Pats.....