NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports Cardinals DC James Bettcher is scheduled to meet with the Giants and Titans about their defensive coordinator vacancies.
Bettcher has not been let go by the Cardinals, but it seems to be a fait accompli after Arizona hired Steve Wilks to be their new head coach. The coordinator since 2015, Bettcher has overseen quality defenses during his time in Arizona. He would be a good hire for either team.
Related: Giants, Titans
Source: Ian Rapoport on Twitter Jan 23 - 11:25 AM
ARI D ranked third in the NFL in fewest yards allowed per drive, per Football Outsiders, behind only DEN and JAX. And that was after losing Calais Campbell to free agency and some secondary turnover midseason. FO - ( New Window )
And this on the heels of the Giants looking at LBs at the Senior Bowl...
CUE SPECULATION!
Giants need 3 new LBs just to play a 4-3.
Hey man, don't ruin the fun. It is the perfect moment to start the annual Giants switch to a 3-4 thread. It's a BBI staple.
And (just to throw a log on the fire) if you keep Kennard and move Vernon to OLB in a 3-4 you are halfway there as far as LBs are concerned. Also Goodson might be better suited for a 3-4 ILB.
I need to find the article, but I remember reading that a few years back Belichick saw how much money 4-3 DEs were making when compared to 3-4 OLBs and started drafting/signing 3-4 OLBs and hybrid players (Think Nikovich and James Harrison). He also deduced that these players were easier to find coming out of the college ranks as many colleges run a 3-4 or employ what would be undersized DEs in a pro 4-3.
And this on the heels of the Giants looking at LBs at the Senior Bowl...
CUE SPECULATION!
Giants need 3 new LBs just to play a 4-3.
Hey man, don't ruin the fun. It is the perfect moment to start the annual Giants switch to a 3-4 thread. It's a BBI staple.
And (just to throw a log on the fire) if you keep Kennard and move Vernon to OLB in a 3-4 you are halfway there as far as LBs are concerned. Also Goodson might be better suited for a 3-4 ILB.
I need to find the article, but I remember reading that a few years back Belichick saw how much money 4-3 DEs were making when compared to 3-4 OLBs and started drafting/signing 3-4 OLBs and hybrid players (Think Nikovich and James Harrison). He also deduced that these players were easier to find coming out of the college ranks as many colleges run a 3-4 or employ what would be undersized DEs in a pro 4-3.
if this is true or not, but BB's execution of it has been basically terrible:
Quote:
I need to find the article, but I remember reading that a few years back Belichick saw how much money 4-3 DEs were making when compared to 3-4 OLBs and started drafting/signing 3-4 OLBs and hybrid players (Think Nikovich and James Harrison). He also deduced that these players were easier to find coming out of the college ranks as many colleges run a 3-4 or employ what would be undersized DEs in a pro 4-3.
Since 2008, the Pats have failed to find a hybrid guy to play more than 16 games in the NFL. Their best LB's drafted have been spikes and Hightower - by far - and neither is that hybrid type.
if this is true or not, but BB's execution of it has been basically terrible:
Quote:
I need to find the article, but I remember reading that a few years back Belichick saw how much money 4-3 DEs were making when compared to 3-4 OLBs and started drafting/signing 3-4 OLBs and hybrid players (Think Nikovich and James Harrison). He also deduced that these players were easier to find coming out of the college ranks as many colleges run a 3-4 or employ what would be undersized DEs in a pro 4-3.
Since 2008, the Pats have failed to find a hybrid guy to play more than 16 games in the NFL. Their best LB's drafted have been spikes and Hightower - by far - and neither is that hybrid type.
Not disputing any of that at all. Just relaying what I read. Certainly the Pats best 3-4 OLB/hybrid types have been FAs. Jamie Collins being a notable exception.
But there is little doubt college is full of these guys. Vonn Miller, Khalil Mack instantly come to mind.
DC's are knowledgeable, and can run run, a 4-3 or a 3-4
They are not tied to one. Its entirely possible that Bettcher looked at AZ's talent and thought a 3-4 was a better fit, but if he came to the Giants would run a 4-3.
....that Shurmur wants Del Rio and he's the leading candidate.
Well that was before the Cardinals hired a defensive coach who is brining in Al Holcomb as the DC. Congrats to Coach Holcomb, a former Giants staffer and coach.
RE: DC's are knowledgeable, and can run run, a 4-3 or a 3-4
They are not tied to one. Its entirely possible that Bettcher looked at AZ's talent and thought a 3-4 was a better fit, but if he came to the Giants would run a 4-3.
True, but this offseason needed some 4-3/3-4 speculation. Personally, I think the fans read too much into the schematic differences. Most coaches don't obsess about fronts as much as we do.
and this is just my eyeball test not using stats. I don't think the AZ D over the past 2 years has been any more than average. Certainly it makes a big difference whether Honey Badger is healthy. Their D line is pedestrian and was last year even with Campbell who didn't seem to have a strong year. The biggest strengths are the OLBs, Golden and Jones, Peterson (who I don't think is the shut-down guy that he's known as) and Mathieu. Certainly not a defense that I'm comfortable can close out a game in the 4th quarter. Bettcher might also consider Collins to be an ILB like Buchanon. My impression is that the Cards needed Palmer to score more points than the D allowed for AZ to win most days.
we kept drafting "hybrids" like Torbor and Sintim and trying to make them into 4-3 LB's, instead of letting them rush the passer. Never made any sense.
They are not tied to one. Its entirely possible that Bettcher looked at AZ's talent and thought a 3-4 was a better fit, but if he came to the Giants would run a 4-3.
I'm pretty sure Bowles was running a 3-4 here already
Chandler Jones may stand up, but he's not dropping into
And (just to throw a log on the fire) if you keep Kennard and move Vernon to OLB in a 3-4 you are halfway there as far as LBs are concerned. Also Goodson might be better suited for a 3-4 ILB.
Kennard's a FA, Goodson can't stay healthy. Vernon would fit, but you'd have to come up with another 3-4 end.
good to hear. glad they're looking at more candidates
The Cardinals defense was 7th best in the NFL in terms of drives against that ended with points.
The Cardinals defense was 3rd best in the NFL against the run - opposing teams averaged just 3.5 YPC against them.
They were slightly above average in net yards gained per pass attempt (14th)
They had the 6th lowest 3rd down conversion % against.
They had the 3rd lowest net yards allowed per drive.
They were tied for the 3rd lowest yards allowed per play with Seattle and Denver @ 4.9 (Minnesota and JAX were the only teams with a lower figure... 4.8)
The Cardinals defense struggled a bit in the RZ (8th worst) - but they were very much hamstrung by a very poor offense that had some of the worst possession and scoring numbers in football.
Im not a big stats guy in football. The Cardinals have had one of the best defenses in the MFL for years now. Great pressure packages. Id take him over Del Rio in a heartbeat.
The Cardinals defense struggled a bit in the RZ (8th worst) - but they were very much hamstrung by a very poor offense that had some of the worst possession and scoring numbers in football.
This is a very important point. Especially when comparing guys like Bettcher and say, Patricia. How often do opposing teams have a short field to march down against the Pats? Rarely. When your offense can string together 10, 12 play drives that end in scores, it gives a huge lift to your D. This is part of the reason the Giants' D took such a big step back this year.
The Cardinals defense struggled a bit in the RZ (8th worst) - but they were very much hamstrung by a very poor offense that had some of the worst possession and scoring numbers in football.
This is a very important point. Especially when comparing guys like Bettcher and say, Patricia. How often do opposing teams have a short field to march down against the Pats? Rarely. When your offense can string together 10, 12 play drives that end in scores, it gives a huge lift to your D. This is part of the reason the Giants' D took such a big step back this year.
This was also the reason why Rod Marinelli got more credit than he deserved in Dallas prior to this season.
DAL offense had been chewing up massive amounts of clock and possession because of the OL and Elliott, leaving their defense less susceptible to short fields and easy points.
This is exactly what happened to NYG in 2013. The 2013 defense here was actually not poor - but the offense and special teams constantly put them in bad spots (and even allowed points before the defense even stepped onto the field in several instances)
That Raiders Defense has been a disaster during his time as HC there despite having some decent talent.
3-4 would not be bad at all for this team.
Snacks as NT. Tomlinson to spell him and play some DE. JPP as a 3-4 DE would be nice. OV can play DE and 3-4 OLB.. Goodson as 1 ILB. We just need more LB's period. Kennard might have been better off as a 3-4 OLB after starting his career off in the 4-3 but I think he is a F/A.
It's getting late in the game. A lot of teams now have their staff assembled. Is it possible to bring in both. I love the thought of having a guy who coordinated successful defenses but didn't have a lot of success as an HC as you could keep him for years. (I was hoping after 2016, that we can follow that model with Spags). Also a big fan of bringing in as many talented coaches that you can find.
Can Del Rio be assistant head coach and Bettcher DC? Del Rio can assist Shurmur in a lot of the HC responsibilities (time management, etc) as Shurmur wants to call the plays.
agree with arcarsenal, I think Tomlinson would have no trouble
BUT, can Vernon actually play OLB? And what to do with JPP? I don't see him as having the game or the will to 2-gap, and seriously despite my joke earlier, how can you 2-gap with 1 hand? They aren't that good as 4-3 DEs either, so maybe it doesn't matter. In any case, hey are stuck with them for at least 1 more year.
Del Rio would be really good hires. And we would have a great 3-4 defense if we switched. We already have two NTs (Snacks and Tomlinson), and Vernon and JPP would be sick rush OLBrs.
Even Avery Moss might be a good fit at OLB. Need another big boy DE to man the line. But wouldn't be a hard transition to that Defense at all.
we kept drafting "hybrids" like Torbor and Sintim and trying to make them into 4-3 LB's, instead of letting them rush the passer. Never made any sense.
Good point - who was the former Giants LB who posted on BBI a little while back, may have been a Q&A?
IIRC he essentially said this too - a guy like Sintim was a talented player, but the Giants drafted him with no plan to maximize his talents, instead shoe-horned him into a role that exposed his weaknesses
Good point - who was the former Giants LB who posted on BBI a little while back, may have been a Q&A?
IIRC he essentially said this too - a guy like Sintim was a talented player, but the Giants drafted him with no plan to maximize his talents, instead shoe-horned him into a role that exposed his weaknesses
That was Bryan Kehl. And he was absolutely right about Sintim - I'm the biggest UVA homer here by far, and I loved Clint Sintim, but he was completely miscast as a 4-3 OLB and I said so the day they drafted him. He was a 3-4 pass rusher from day 1 at Virginia and he excelled at it. He never was asked to play in space and there was no reason to think he could do it. They set him up to fail. Had he been drafted by, say, the Steelers (and not torn his knee up), he would have been a success.
I have no idea if he was any good in that role, but I think he did it.
They did move him around a bit - I know they would sometimes line him up as a LBer over the top and have him shoot the A-gap. It seemed to work well when they used his versatility.
I would be thrilled with either or Del Rio. I wasnt expecting the Giants to work so hard to hire a big name DC but they are doing it. Bettcher is a very good DC and he would be a big upgrade over Spags.
how Del Rio is getting lambasted for being a retread and a stale name when most of BBI would sign up for 80 year old Dick LeBeau or Wade Phillips for DC (and rightfully so).
about the young guy is that people who never heard of him 6 months ago want to sign up for him because he's discussed as a "hot prospect". Then they act like this guy is a can't miss coach who they have championed all along.
Bettcher is a solid DC. Del Rio has been a solid DC. Not sure why one guy has to be trashed to elevate another guy, especially by people who didn't even hear his name prior to a couple weeks ago.
for a 3-4 vs a 4-3, so it matters which is your base defense, but (as someone else observed on BBI) modern defenses aren't strictly one or the other. Sometimes they show a 4-3 look, sometimes a 3-4.
Given the Giants' tradition of great linebackers and the crummy LB play of recent years, I understand the desire to get back to standout linebackers. I happen to prefer the 4-3, which is supposed to be better against the pass, but I really don't care how the players line up as long as the D is good and the Giants are winning.
I think it was a BBIer who said worrying about whether a DC runs a 4-3 or a 3-4 is like worrying about whether an OC runs an "I-formation" offense.
Tennessee is interviewing him today at the Senior Bowl as well....
Why are people so worried about the coordinator leaving for a new job?
If that happens, it means we hired the right guy.
Shouldn't we all want the next Pat Shurmur to be our OC? That's kind of the idea here.
The goal isn't to find a coordinator who we don't have to worry about leaving us.. we just did that with Spagnuolo.
The goal is to find the guy who does his job the best.
It goes both ways. There is a lot of value to what the Rams have with Wade Phillips as DC, or what the Panthers may potentially have with Norv Turner as OC. Excellent coordinators who will be there for as long as they are performing. Im all for the young guy, but one & done would be frustrating. Remember Spags to Sheridan?
Why are people so worried about the coordinator leaving for a new job?
If that happens, it means we hired the right guy.
Shouldn't we all want the next Pat Shurmur to be our OC? That's kind of the idea here.
The goal isn't to find a coordinator who we don't have to worry about leaving us.. we just did that with Spagnuolo.
The goal is to find the guy who does his job the best.
It goes both ways. There is a lot of value to what the Rams have with Wade Phillips as DC, or what the Panthers may potentially have with Norv Turner as OC. Excellent coordinators who will be there for as long as they are performing. Im all for the young guy, but one & done would be frustrating. Remember Spags to Sheridan?
Del Rio is probably the closest we can get to a Wade/Norv type of coordinator.
My point is that I wouldn't pass on a guy because I was worried he might leave if he sees success here. All that means is that we fielded an impressive defense and probably won a bunch of games (unless the offense is horrendous again)
I'm personally more concerned with results than how long the guy can stay here if we get them.
If you told me Del Rio would come here and field an average defense for the next 5 years or Bettcher would come here and field a top 5 unit but would leave after next season or the season after, I'd still sign up for that instead.
Converting to a 3-4 would be a pretty smooth process, plus the popularity of the 4-3 creates a fruitful market of overlooked 3-4 specialists.
A front consisting of Tomlinson, Harrison, and JPP would be a really strong foundation. JPP, for all his high effort and hustle, never developed as a well-rounded edge rusher. Obviously the hand injury further marginalized him. But he still battles and anchors vs the run, and he still infects passing with his length.
Asking him to bulk up a bit could reinvigorate his career and also rescue his multi-year deal from being a total sunk cost. And he could he still contribute as a storng side rusher or interior rusher in passing situation when we might use 4 DL.
Why are people so worried about the coordinator leaving for a new job?
If that happens, it means we hired the right guy.
Shouldn't we all want the next Pat Shurmur to be our OC? That's kind of the idea here.
The goal isn't to find a coordinator who we don't have to worry about leaving us.. we just did that with Spagnuolo.
The goal is to find the guy who does his job the best.
True, but the turnover sucks. As hard as it is to find a good coordinator, you hate to have to change your defense every other year.
Of course - I just wouldn't use it as a "negative" or a reason why I wouldn't hire someone.
If I'm really worried about losing the guy, it means I have strong convictions about what he can do and the results he can get - which is all that matters.
If he does admirably well here and gets an elevated gig elsewhere - so be it.
Converting to a 3-4 would be a pretty smooth process, plus the popularity of the 4-3 creates a fruitful market of overlooked 3-4 specialists.
A front consisting of Tomlinson, Harrison, and JPP would be a really strong foundation. JPP, for all his high effort and hustle, never developed as a well-rounded edge rusher. Obviously the hand injury further marginalized him. But he still battles and anchors vs the run, and he still infects passing with his length.
Asking him to bulk up a bit could reinvigorate his career and also rescue his multi-year deal from being a total sunk cost. And he could he still contribute as a storng side rusher or interior rusher in passing situation when we might use 4 DL.
Has The Thrill Ride abandoned the 3rd person schtick? Lol
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With the hire of Steve Wilks, the #AZCardinals have cut loose most of their assistants including respected DL coach Brentson Buckner. Hell have a job quickly.
@mikejurecki
6m6 minutes ago
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James Bettcher met with the Giants and Titans at the senior bowl today, hearing hes at the top of the list with both teams. He could be leaning with the #Titans.
It was posted in another thread, said he was a 9 to 5 guy, a bit lazy, doesn't put in the extra time needed. I have no idea how true this is, just regurgitating what I read. To me, that's a bit disconcerting.
made the playoffs in Oakland year one, and just missed the playoffs in year 2 despite losing his starting QB for 1/2 the year.
You guys are making it sound like he had a McAdoo-like collapse, while they were in the hunt until the last 2 weeks, even with Carr missing significant time.
Not to mention that he'd be a DC, a position he's excelled at, not a HC.
Are people going to dissect Wade Phillips and Dick Lebeau's HC tenures, too?
@mikejurecki
6m6 minutes ago
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James Bettcher met with the Giants and Titans at the senior bowl today, hearing hes at the top of the list with both teams. He could be leaning with the #Titans.
I always wonder how a writer would know which job a guy would prefer so soon after an interview, or whether the teams have him as their first choice. Speculation? An agent's take? Complete crock?
Link - ( New Window )
Bettcher has not been let go by the Cardinals, but it seems to be a fait accompli after Arizona hired Steve Wilks to be their new head coach. The coordinator since 2015, Bettcher has overseen quality defenses during his time in Arizona. He would be a good hire for either team.
Related: Giants, Titans
Source: Ian Rapoport on Twitter Jan 23 - 11:25 AM
Link - ( New Window )
That extra "your" ruined a quality pun.
FO - ( New Window )
Arians thought enough of Bettcher to recommend him as his replacement as HC.
I believe they are!
And this on the heels of the Giants looking at LBs at the Senior Bowl...
CUE SPECULATION!
Quote:
?
I believe they are!
And this on the heels of the Giants looking at LBs at the Senior Bowl...
CUE SPECULATION!
Giants need 3 new LBs just to play a 4-3.
Quote:
In comment 13802835 jeff57 said:
Quote:
?
I believe they are!
And this on the heels of the Giants looking at LBs at the Senior Bowl...
CUE SPECULATION!
Giants need 3 new LBs just to play a 4-3.
Hey man, don't ruin the fun. It is the perfect moment to start the annual Giants switch to a 3-4 thread. It's a BBI staple.
Quote:
In comment 13802837 Emil said:
Quote:
In comment 13802835 jeff57 said:
Quote:
?
I believe they are!
And this on the heels of the Giants looking at LBs at the Senior Bowl...
CUE SPECULATION!
Giants need 3 new LBs just to play a 4-3.
Hey man, don't ruin the fun. It is the perfect moment to start the annual Giants switch to a 3-4 thread. It's a BBI staple.
And (just to throw a log on the fire) if you keep Kennard and move Vernon to OLB in a 3-4 you are halfway there as far as LBs are concerned. Also Goodson might be better suited for a 3-4 ILB.
I need to find the article, but I remember reading that a few years back Belichick saw how much money 4-3 DEs were making when compared to 3-4 OLBs and started drafting/signing 3-4 OLBs and hybrid players (Think Nikovich and James Harrison). He also deduced that these players were easier to find coming out of the college ranks as many colleges run a 3-4 or employ what would be undersized DEs in a pro 4-3.
Quote:
In comment 13802843 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 13802837 Emil said:
Quote:
In comment 13802835 jeff57 said:
Quote:
?
I believe they are!
And this on the heels of the Giants looking at LBs at the Senior Bowl...
CUE SPECULATION!
Giants need 3 new LBs just to play a 4-3.
Hey man, don't ruin the fun. It is the perfect moment to start the annual Giants switch to a 3-4 thread. It's a BBI staple.
And (just to throw a log on the fire) if you keep Kennard and move Vernon to OLB in a 3-4 you are halfway there as far as LBs are concerned. Also Goodson might be better suited for a 3-4 ILB.
I need to find the article, but I remember reading that a few years back Belichick saw how much money 4-3 DEs were making when compared to 3-4 OLBs and started drafting/signing 3-4 OLBs and hybrid players (Think Nikovich and James Harrison). He also deduced that these players were easier to find coming out of the college ranks as many colleges run a 3-4 or employ what would be undersized DEs in a pro 4-3.
All very solid points. Nice post.
Since 2008, the Pats have failed to find a hybrid guy to play more than 16 games in the NFL. Their best LB's drafted have been spikes and Hightower - by far - and neither is that hybrid type.
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I need to find the article, but I remember reading that a few years back Belichick saw how much money 4-3 DEs were making when compared to 3-4 OLBs and started drafting/signing 3-4 OLBs and hybrid players (Think Nikovich and James Harrison). He also deduced that these players were easier to find coming out of the college ranks as many colleges run a 3-4 or employ what would be undersized DEs in a pro 4-3.
Since 2008, the Pats have failed to find a hybrid guy to play more than 16 games in the NFL. Their best LB's drafted have been spikes and Hightower - by far - and neither is that hybrid type.
Not disputing any of that at all. Just relaying what I read. Certainly the Pats best 3-4 OLB/hybrid types have been FAs. Jamie Collins being a notable exception.
But there is little doubt college is full of these guys. Vonn Miller, Khalil Mack instantly come to mind.
Well that was before the Cardinals hired a defensive coach who is brining in Al Holcomb as the DC. Congrats to Coach Holcomb, a former Giants staffer and coach.
True, but this offseason needed some 4-3/3-4 speculation. Personally, I think the fans read too much into the schematic differences. Most coaches don't obsess about fronts as much as we do.
I'm pretty sure Bowles was running a 3-4 here already
2015: #8
2016: #14
2017: #19
Kennard's a FA, Goodson can't stay healthy. Vernon would fit, but you'd have to come up with another 3-4 end.
2016 - #3
2017 - #4
JPP-Snacks-Tomlinson
Kennard-Goodson-??-Vernon
Need one player, and could probably use an upgrade over Kennard.
The Cardinals defense was 7th best in the NFL in terms of drives against that ended with points.
The Cardinals defense was 3rd best in the NFL against the run - opposing teams averaged just 3.5 YPC against them.
They were slightly above average in net yards gained per pass attempt (14th)
They had the 6th lowest 3rd down conversion % against.
They had the 3rd lowest net yards allowed per drive.
They were tied for the 3rd lowest yards allowed per play with Seattle and Denver @ 4.9 (Minnesota and JAX were the only teams with a lower figure... 4.8)
The Cardinals defense struggled a bit in the RZ (8th worst) - but they were very much hamstrung by a very poor offense that had some of the worst possession and scoring numbers in football.
Im not a big stats guy in football. The Cardinals have had one of the best defenses in the MFL for years now. Great pressure packages. Id take him over Del Rio in a heartbeat.
The Cardinals defense struggled a bit in the RZ (8th worst) - but they were very much hamstrung by a very poor offense that had some of the worst possession and scoring numbers in football.
This is a very important point. Especially when comparing guys like Bettcher and say, Patricia. How often do opposing teams have a short field to march down against the Pats? Rarely. When your offense can string together 10, 12 play drives that end in scores, it gives a huge lift to your D. This is part of the reason the Giants' D took such a big step back this year.
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Looking under the hood a bit...
The Cardinals defense struggled a bit in the RZ (8th worst) - but they were very much hamstrung by a very poor offense that had some of the worst possession and scoring numbers in football.
This is a very important point. Especially when comparing guys like Bettcher and say, Patricia. How often do opposing teams have a short field to march down against the Pats? Rarely. When your offense can string together 10, 12 play drives that end in scores, it gives a huge lift to your D. This is part of the reason the Giants' D took such a big step back this year.
This was also the reason why Rod Marinelli got more credit than he deserved in Dallas prior to this season.
DAL offense had been chewing up massive amounts of clock and possession because of the OL and Elliott, leaving their defense less susceptible to short fields and easy points.
This is exactly what happened to NYG in 2013. The 2013 defense here was actually not poor - but the offense and special teams constantly put them in bad spots (and even allowed points before the defense even stepped onto the field in several instances)
3-4 would not be bad at all for this team.
Snacks as NT. Tomlinson to spell him and play some DE. JPP as a 3-4 DE would be nice. OV can play DE and 3-4 OLB.. Goodson as 1 ILB. We just need more LB's period. Kennard might have been better off as a 3-4 OLB after starting his career off in the 4-3 but I think he is a F/A.
JPP-Snacks-Tomlinson
Kennard-Goodson-??-Vernon
Need one player, and could probably use an upgrade over Kennard.
Tomlinson can't play end. Not mobile enough.
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some make it seem.
JPP-Snacks-Tomlinson
Kennard-Goodson-??-Vernon
Need one player, and could probably use an upgrade over Kennard.
Tomlinson can't play end. Not mobile enough.
Guess again. It's what he played at Alabama.
JPP-Snacks-Tomlinson
Kennard-Goodson-??-Vernon
Need one player, and could probably use an upgrade over Kennard.
Tomlinson and JPP aren't suited to those positions.
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some make it seem.
JPP-Snacks-Tomlinson
Kennard-Goodson-??-Vernon
Need one player, and could probably use an upgrade over Kennard.
Tomlinson and JPP aren't suited to those positions.
Tough to 2-Gap with 1 hand
He lined up as a 2-gap penetrating end w/ Alabama.
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In comment 13802957 Jon in NYC said:
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some make it seem.
JPP-Snacks-Tomlinson
Kennard-Goodson-??-Vernon
Need one player, and could probably use an upgrade over Kennard.
Tomlinson can't play end. Not mobile enough.
Guess again. It's what he played at Alabama.
He did play inside and outside. But it's different in the pros. Don't know if he'd be suited for it.
Can Del Rio be assistant head coach and Bettcher DC? Del Rio can assist Shurmur in a lot of the HC responsibilities (time management, etc) as Shurmur wants to call the plays.
BUT, can Vernon actually play OLB? And what to do with JPP? I don't see him as having the game or the will to 2-gap, and seriously despite my joke earlier, how can you 2-gap with 1 hand? They aren't that good as 4-3 DEs either, so maybe it doesn't matter. In any case, hey are stuck with them for at least 1 more year.
Even Avery Moss might be a good fit at OLB. Need another big boy DE to man the line. But wouldn't be a hard transition to that Defense at all.
Good point - who was the former Giants LB who posted on BBI a little while back, may have been a Q&A?
IIRC he essentially said this too - a guy like Sintim was a talented player, but the Giants drafted him with no plan to maximize his talents, instead shoe-horned him into a role that exposed his weaknesses
IIRC he essentially said this too - a guy like Sintim was a talented player, but the Giants drafted him with no plan to maximize his talents, instead shoe-horned him into a role that exposed his weaknesses
That was Bryan Kehl. And he was absolutely right about Sintim - I'm the biggest UVA homer here by far, and I loved Clint Sintim, but he was completely miscast as a 4-3 OLB and I said so the day they drafted him. He was a 3-4 pass rusher from day 1 at Virginia and he excelled at it. He never was asked to play in space and there was no reason to think he could do it. They set him up to fail. Had he been drafted by, say, the Steelers (and not torn his knee up), he would have been a success.
They did move him around a bit - I know they would sometimes line him up as a LBer over the top and have him shoot the A-gap. It seemed to work well when they used his versatility.
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
In comment 13802835 jeff57 said:
Quote:
?
I believe they are!
And this on the heels of the Giants looking at LBs at the Senior Bowl...
CUE SPECULATION!
Giants need 3 new LBs just to play a 4-3.
Link - ( New Window )
Vernon played very well as a 3-4 DE in Miami. In fact, thats why NYG gave him a big contract.
He's 80, not 89
nice problem to have...
Bettcher is a solid DC. Del Rio has been a solid DC. Not sure why one guy has to be trashed to elevate another guy, especially by people who didn't even hear his name prior to a couple weeks ago.
Given the Giants' tradition of great linebackers and the crummy LB play of recent years, I understand the desire to get back to standout linebackers. I happen to prefer the 4-3, which is supposed to be better against the pass, but I really don't care how the players line up as long as the D is good and the Giants are winning.
I think it was a BBIer who said worrying about whether a DC runs a 4-3 or a 3-4 is like worrying about whether an OC runs an "I-formation" offense.
True, but with Titans he'd be a former linebacker coach working under a head coach who is a former linebacker.
With NYG, he'd be "the" D guy.
Depends what he wants.
As for possibility he'd be moving on to be a HC, yes, there's that, so you have to hope he'll attract good position assistants.
If that happens, it means we hired the right guy.
Shouldn't we all want the next Pat Shurmur to be our OC? That's kind of the idea here.
The goal isn't to find a coordinator who we don't have to worry about leaving us.. we just did that with Spagnuolo.
The goal is to find the guy who does his job the best.
If that happens, it means we hired the right guy.
Shouldn't we all want the next Pat Shurmur to be our OC? That's kind of the idea here.
The goal isn't to find a coordinator who we don't have to worry about leaving us.. we just did that with Spagnuolo.
The goal is to find the guy who does his job the best.
It goes both ways. There is a lot of value to what the Rams have with Wade Phillips as DC, or what the Panthers may potentially have with Norv Turner as OC. Excellent coordinators who will be there for as long as they are performing. Im all for the young guy, but one & done would be frustrating. Remember Spags to Sheridan?
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Why are people so worried about the coordinator leaving for a new job?
If that happens, it means we hired the right guy.
Shouldn't we all want the next Pat Shurmur to be our OC? That's kind of the idea here.
The goal isn't to find a coordinator who we don't have to worry about leaving us.. we just did that with Spagnuolo.
The goal is to find the guy who does his job the best.
It goes both ways. There is a lot of value to what the Rams have with Wade Phillips as DC, or what the Panthers may potentially have with Norv Turner as OC. Excellent coordinators who will be there for as long as they are performing. Im all for the young guy, but one & done would be frustrating. Remember Spags to Sheridan?
Del Rio is probably the closest we can get to a Wade/Norv type of coordinator.
My point is that I wouldn't pass on a guy because I was worried he might leave if he sees success here. All that means is that we fielded an impressive defense and probably won a bunch of games (unless the offense is horrendous again)
I'm personally more concerned with results than how long the guy can stay here if we get them.
If you told me Del Rio would come here and field an average defense for the next 5 years or Bettcher would come here and field a top 5 unit but would leave after next season or the season after, I'd still sign up for that instead.
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No love for octogenarians?
He's 80, not 89
Ever heard of a thing called a joke...
A front consisting of Tomlinson, Harrison, and JPP would be a really strong foundation. JPP, for all his high effort and hustle, never developed as a well-rounded edge rusher. Obviously the hand injury further marginalized him. But he still battles and anchors vs the run, and he still infects passing with his length.
Asking him to bulk up a bit could reinvigorate his career and also rescue his multi-year deal from being a total sunk cost. And he could he still contribute as a storng side rusher or interior rusher in passing situation when we might use 4 DL.
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In comment 13803261 Carson53 said:
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No love for octogenarians?
He's 80, not 89
.
Ever heard of a thing called a joke...
Would it have been so difficult to be honest and admit that the 9 is right next to the 0 on your keyboard?
If that happens, it means we hired the right guy.
Shouldn't we all want the next Pat Shurmur to be our OC? That's kind of the idea here.
The goal isn't to find a coordinator who we don't have to worry about leaving us.. we just did that with Spagnuolo.
The goal is to find the guy who does his job the best.
True, but the turnover sucks. As hard as it is to find a good coordinator, you hate to have to change your defense every other year.
Quote:
Why are people so worried about the coordinator leaving for a new job?
If that happens, it means we hired the right guy.
Shouldn't we all want the next Pat Shurmur to be our OC? That's kind of the idea here.
The goal isn't to find a coordinator who we don't have to worry about leaving us.. we just did that with Spagnuolo.
The goal is to find the guy who does his job the best.
True, but the turnover sucks. As hard as it is to find a good coordinator, you hate to have to change your defense every other year.
Of course - I just wouldn't use it as a "negative" or a reason why I wouldn't hire someone.
If I'm really worried about losing the guy, it means I have strong convictions about what he can do and the results he can get - which is all that matters.
If he does admirably well here and gets an elevated gig elsewhere - so be it.
A front consisting of Tomlinson, Harrison, and JPP would be a really strong foundation. JPP, for all his high effort and hustle, never developed as a well-rounded edge rusher. Obviously the hand injury further marginalized him. But he still battles and anchors vs the run, and he still infects passing with his length.
Asking him to bulk up a bit could reinvigorate his career and also rescue his multi-year deal from being a total sunk cost. And he could he still contribute as a storng side rusher or interior rusher in passing situation when we might use 4 DL.
Has The Thrill Ride abandoned the 3rd person schtick? Lol
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With the hire of Steve Wilks, the #AZCardinals have cut loose most of their assistants including respected DL coach Brentson Buckner. Hell have a job quickly.
It has already been reported that he's not returning as DC. That ship has sailed.
1. Any coordinator worth his weight can run a 3-4 or a 4-3. So much of a game is played in subpackages anyway.
2. Our 4-3 defense has sucked for the better part of 5 years so a switch might help.
3. Our personnel is such we can play a 3-4. OV is more of an OLB. Snacks is a NT and Tomlinson can easily play DE.
4. Why would you not hire him? New HC and maybe new HC prefers a 3-4? Our linebackers suck in 4-3
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James Bettcher met with the Giants and Titans at the senior bowl today, hearing hes at the top of the list with both teams. He could be leaning with the #Titans.
You guys are making it sound like he had a McAdoo-like collapse, while they were in the hunt until the last 2 weeks, even with Carr missing significant time.
Not to mention that he'd be a DC, a position he's excelled at, not a HC.
Are people going to dissect Wade Phillips and Dick Lebeau's HC tenures, too?
6m6 minutes ago
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James Bettcher met with the Giants and Titans at the senior bowl today, hearing hes at the top of the list with both teams. He could be leaning with the #Titans.
I always wonder how a writer would know which job a guy would prefer so soon after an interview, or whether the teams have him as their first choice. Speculation? An agent's take? Complete crock?
How is adding nine years to his age making a joke? It's not as if the nine years were needed to make him an octogenarian - he already is one.
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