NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports Cardinals DC James Bettcher is scheduled to meet with the Giants and Titans about their defensive coordinator vacancies.
Bettcher has not been let go by the Cardinals, but it seems to be a fait accompli after Arizona hired Steve Wilks to be their new head coach. The coordinator since 2015, Bettcher has overseen quality defenses during his time in Arizona. He would be a good hire for either team.
Related: Giants, Titans
Source: Ian Rapoport on Twitter Jan 23 - 11:25 AM
ARI D ranked third in the NFL in fewest yards allowed per drive, per Football Outsiders, behind only DEN and JAX. And that was after losing Calais Campbell to free agency and some secondary turnover midseason. FO - ( New Window )
And this on the heels of the Giants looking at LBs at the Senior Bowl...
CUE SPECULATION!
Giants need 3 new LBs just to play a 4-3.
Hey man, don't ruin the fun. It is the perfect moment to start the annual Giants switch to a 3-4 thread. It's a BBI staple.
And (just to throw a log on the fire) if you keep Kennard and move Vernon to OLB in a 3-4 you are halfway there as far as LBs are concerned. Also Goodson might be better suited for a 3-4 ILB.
I need to find the article, but I remember reading that a few years back Belichick saw how much money 4-3 DEs were making when compared to 3-4 OLBs and started drafting/signing 3-4 OLBs and hybrid players (Think Nikovich and James Harrison). He also deduced that these players were easier to find coming out of the college ranks as many colleges run a 3-4 or employ what would be undersized DEs in a pro 4-3.
And this on the heels of the Giants looking at LBs at the Senior Bowl...
CUE SPECULATION!
Giants need 3 new LBs just to play a 4-3.
Hey man, don't ruin the fun. It is the perfect moment to start the annual Giants switch to a 3-4 thread. It's a BBI staple.
And (just to throw a log on the fire) if you keep Kennard and move Vernon to OLB in a 3-4 you are halfway there as far as LBs are concerned. Also Goodson might be better suited for a 3-4 ILB.
I need to find the article, but I remember reading that a few years back Belichick saw how much money 4-3 DEs were making when compared to 3-4 OLBs and started drafting/signing 3-4 OLBs and hybrid players (Think Nikovich and James Harrison). He also deduced that these players were easier to find coming out of the college ranks as many colleges run a 3-4 or employ what would be undersized DEs in a pro 4-3.
if this is true or not, but BB's execution of it has been basically terrible:
Quote:
I need to find the article, but I remember reading that a few years back Belichick saw how much money 4-3 DEs were making when compared to 3-4 OLBs and started drafting/signing 3-4 OLBs and hybrid players (Think Nikovich and James Harrison). He also deduced that these players were easier to find coming out of the college ranks as many colleges run a 3-4 or employ what would be undersized DEs in a pro 4-3.
Since 2008, the Pats have failed to find a hybrid guy to play more than 16 games in the NFL. Their best LB's drafted have been spikes and Hightower - by far - and neither is that hybrid type.
if this is true or not, but BB's execution of it has been basically terrible:
Quote:
I need to find the article, but I remember reading that a few years back Belichick saw how much money 4-3 DEs were making when compared to 3-4 OLBs and started drafting/signing 3-4 OLBs and hybrid players (Think Nikovich and James Harrison). He also deduced that these players were easier to find coming out of the college ranks as many colleges run a 3-4 or employ what would be undersized DEs in a pro 4-3.
Since 2008, the Pats have failed to find a hybrid guy to play more than 16 games in the NFL. Their best LB's drafted have been spikes and Hightower - by far - and neither is that hybrid type.
Not disputing any of that at all. Just relaying what I read. Certainly the Pats best 3-4 OLB/hybrid types have been FAs. Jamie Collins being a notable exception.
But there is little doubt college is full of these guys. Vonn Miller, Khalil Mack instantly come to mind.
DC's are knowledgeable, and can run run, a 4-3 or a 3-4 Â
They are not tied to one. Its entirely possible that Bettcher looked at AZ's talent and thought a 3-4 was a better fit, but if he came to the Giants would run a 4-3.
....that Shurmur wants Del Rio and he's the leading candidate.
Well that was before the Cardinals hired a defensive coach who is brining in Al Holcomb as the DC. Congrats to Coach Holcomb, a former Giants staffer and coach.
RE: DC's are knowledgeable, and can run run, a 4-3 or a 3-4 Â
They are not tied to one. Its entirely possible that Bettcher looked at AZ's talent and thought a 3-4 was a better fit, but if he came to the Giants would run a 4-3.
True, but this offseason needed some 4-3/3-4 speculation. Personally, I think the fans read too much into the schematic differences. Most coaches don't obsess about fronts as much as we do.
and this is just my eyeball test not using stats. I don't think the AZ D over the past 2 years has been any more than average. Certainly it makes a big difference whether Honey Badger is healthy. Their D line is pedestrian and was last year even with Campbell who didn't seem to have a strong year. The biggest strengths are the OLBs, Golden and Jones, Peterson (who I don't think is the shut-down guy that he's known as) and Mathieu. Certainly not a defense that I'm comfortable can close out a game in the 4th quarter. Bettcher might also consider Collins to be an ILB like Buchanon. My impression is that the Cards needed Palmer to score more points than the D allowed for AZ to win most days.
we kept drafting "hybrids" like Torbor and Sintim and trying to make them into 4-3 LB's, instead of letting them rush the passer. Never made any sense.
They are not tied to one. Its entirely possible that Bettcher looked at AZ's talent and thought a 3-4 was a better fit, but if he came to the Giants would run a 4-3.
I'm pretty sure Bowles was running a 3-4 here already
Chandler Jones may stand up, but he's not dropping into Â
And (just to throw a log on the fire) if you keep Kennard and move Vernon to OLB in a 3-4 you are halfway there as far as LBs are concerned. Also Goodson might be better suited for a 3-4 ILB.
Kennard's a FA, Goodson can't stay healthy. Vernon would fit, but you'd have to come up with another 3-4 end.
good to hear. glad they're looking at more candidates Â
The Cardinals defense was 7th best in the NFL in terms of drives against that ended with points.
The Cardinals defense was 3rd best in the NFL against the run - opposing teams averaged just 3.5 YPC against them.
They were slightly above average in net yards gained per pass attempt (14th)
They had the 6th lowest 3rd down conversion % against.
They had the 3rd lowest net yards allowed per drive.
They were tied for the 3rd lowest yards allowed per play with Seattle and Denver @ 4.9 (Minnesota and JAX were the only teams with a lower figure... 4.8)
The Cardinals defense struggled a bit in the RZ (8th worst) - but they were very much hamstrung by a very poor offense that had some of the worst possession and scoring numbers in football.
I’m not a big stats guy in football. The Cardinals have had one of the best defense’s in the MFL for years now. Great pressure packages. I’d take him over Del Rio in a heartbeat.
The Cardinals defense struggled a bit in the RZ (8th worst) - but they were very much hamstrung by a very poor offense that had some of the worst possession and scoring numbers in football.
This is a very important point. Especially when comparing guys like Bettcher and say, Patricia. How often do opposing teams have a short field to march down against the Pats? Rarely. When your offense can string together 10, 12 play drives that end in scores, it gives a huge lift to your D. This is part of the reason the Giants' D took such a big step back this year.
The Cardinals defense struggled a bit in the RZ (8th worst) - but they were very much hamstrung by a very poor offense that had some of the worst possession and scoring numbers in football.
This is a very important point. Especially when comparing guys like Bettcher and say, Patricia. How often do opposing teams have a short field to march down against the Pats? Rarely. When your offense can string together 10, 12 play drives that end in scores, it gives a huge lift to your D. This is part of the reason the Giants' D took such a big step back this year.
This was also the reason why Rod Marinelli got more credit than he deserved in Dallas prior to this season.
DAL offense had been chewing up massive amounts of clock and possession because of the OL and Elliott, leaving their defense less susceptible to short fields and easy points.
This is exactly what happened to NYG in 2013. The 2013 defense here was actually not poor - but the offense and special teams constantly put them in bad spots (and even allowed points before the defense even stepped onto the field in several instances)
That Raiders Defense has been a disaster during his time as HC there despite having some decent talent.
3-4 would not be bad at all for this team.
Snacks as NT. Tomlinson to spell him and play some DE. JPP as a 3-4 DE would be nice. OV can play DE and 3-4 OLB.. Goodson as 1 ILB. We just need more LB's period. Kennard might have been better off as a 3-4 OLB after starting his career off in the 4-3 but I think he is a F/A.
It's getting late in the game. A lot of teams now have their staff assembled. Is it possible to bring in both. I love the thought of having a guy who coordinated successful defenses but didn't have a lot of success as an HC as you could keep him for years. (I was hoping after 2016, that we can follow that model with Spags). Also a big fan of bringing in as many talented coaches that you can find.
Can Del Rio be assistant head coach and Bettcher DC? Del Rio can assist Shurmur in a lot of the HC responsibilities (time management, etc) as Shurmur wants to call the plays.
agree with arcarsenal, I think Tomlinson would have no trouble Â
BUT, can Vernon actually play OLB? And what to do with JPP? I don't see him as having the game or the will to 2-gap, and seriously despite my joke earlier, how can you 2-gap with 1 hand? They aren't that good as 4-3 DEs either, so maybe it doesn't matter. In any case, hey are stuck with them for at least 1 more year.
Del Rio would be really good hires. And we would have a great 3-4 defense if we switched. We already have two NTs (Snacks and Tomlinson), and Vernon and JPP would be sick rush OLBrs.
Even Avery Moss might be a good fit at OLB. Need another big boy DE to man the line. But wouldn't be a hard transition to that Defense at all.
Link - ( New Window )
Bettcher has not been let go by the Cardinals, but it seems to be a fait accompli after Arizona hired Steve Wilks to be their new head coach. The coordinator since 2015, Bettcher has overseen quality defenses during his time in Arizona. He would be a good hire for either team.
Related: Giants, Titans
Source: Ian Rapoport on Twitter Jan 23 - 11:25 AM
Link - ( New Window )
That extra "your" ruined a quality pun.
FO - ( New Window )
Arians thought enough of Bettcher to recommend him as his replacement as HC.
I believe they are!
And this on the heels of the Giants looking at LBs at the Senior Bowl...
CUE SPECULATION!
Quote:
?
I believe they are!
And this on the heels of the Giants looking at LBs at the Senior Bowl...
CUE SPECULATION!
Giants need 3 new LBs just to play a 4-3.
Quote:
In comment 13802835 jeff57 said:
Quote:
?
I believe they are!
And this on the heels of the Giants looking at LBs at the Senior Bowl...
CUE SPECULATION!
Giants need 3 new LBs just to play a 4-3.
Hey man, don't ruin the fun. It is the perfect moment to start the annual Giants switch to a 3-4 thread. It's a BBI staple.
Quote:
In comment 13802837 Emil said:
Quote:
In comment 13802835 jeff57 said:
Quote:
?
I believe they are!
And this on the heels of the Giants looking at LBs at the Senior Bowl...
CUE SPECULATION!
Giants need 3 new LBs just to play a 4-3.
Hey man, don't ruin the fun. It is the perfect moment to start the annual Giants switch to a 3-4 thread. It's a BBI staple.
And (just to throw a log on the fire) if you keep Kennard and move Vernon to OLB in a 3-4 you are halfway there as far as LBs are concerned. Also Goodson might be better suited for a 3-4 ILB.
I need to find the article, but I remember reading that a few years back Belichick saw how much money 4-3 DEs were making when compared to 3-4 OLBs and started drafting/signing 3-4 OLBs and hybrid players (Think Nikovich and James Harrison). He also deduced that these players were easier to find coming out of the college ranks as many colleges run a 3-4 or employ what would be undersized DEs in a pro 4-3.
Quote:
In comment 13802843 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 13802837 Emil said:
Quote:
In comment 13802835 jeff57 said:
Quote:
?
I believe they are!
And this on the heels of the Giants looking at LBs at the Senior Bowl...
CUE SPECULATION!
Giants need 3 new LBs just to play a 4-3.
Hey man, don't ruin the fun. It is the perfect moment to start the annual Giants switch to a 3-4 thread. It's a BBI staple.
And (just to throw a log on the fire) if you keep Kennard and move Vernon to OLB in a 3-4 you are halfway there as far as LBs are concerned. Also Goodson might be better suited for a 3-4 ILB.
I need to find the article, but I remember reading that a few years back Belichick saw how much money 4-3 DEs were making when compared to 3-4 OLBs and started drafting/signing 3-4 OLBs and hybrid players (Think Nikovich and James Harrison). He also deduced that these players were easier to find coming out of the college ranks as many colleges run a 3-4 or employ what would be undersized DEs in a pro 4-3.
All very solid points. Nice post.
Since 2008, the Pats have failed to find a hybrid guy to play more than 16 games in the NFL. Their best LB's drafted have been spikes and Hightower - by far - and neither is that hybrid type.
Quote:
I need to find the article, but I remember reading that a few years back Belichick saw how much money 4-3 DEs were making when compared to 3-4 OLBs and started drafting/signing 3-4 OLBs and hybrid players (Think Nikovich and James Harrison). He also deduced that these players were easier to find coming out of the college ranks as many colleges run a 3-4 or employ what would be undersized DEs in a pro 4-3.
Since 2008, the Pats have failed to find a hybrid guy to play more than 16 games in the NFL. Their best LB's drafted have been spikes and Hightower - by far - and neither is that hybrid type.
Not disputing any of that at all. Just relaying what I read. Certainly the Pats best 3-4 OLB/hybrid types have been FAs. Jamie Collins being a notable exception.
But there is little doubt college is full of these guys. Vonn Miller, Khalil Mack instantly come to mind.
Well that was before the Cardinals hired a defensive coach who is brining in Al Holcomb as the DC. Congrats to Coach Holcomb, a former Giants staffer and coach.
True, but this offseason needed some 4-3/3-4 speculation. Personally, I think the fans read too much into the schematic differences. Most coaches don't obsess about fronts as much as we do.
I'm pretty sure Bowles was running a 3-4 here already
2015: #8
2016: #14
2017: #19
Kennard's a FA, Goodson can't stay healthy. Vernon would fit, but you'd have to come up with another 3-4 end.
2016 - #3
2017 - #4
JPP-Snacks-Tomlinson
Kennard-Goodson-??-Vernon
Need one player, and could probably use an upgrade over Kennard.
The Cardinals defense was 7th best in the NFL in terms of drives against that ended with points.
The Cardinals defense was 3rd best in the NFL against the run - opposing teams averaged just 3.5 YPC against them.
They were slightly above average in net yards gained per pass attempt (14th)
They had the 6th lowest 3rd down conversion % against.
They had the 3rd lowest net yards allowed per drive.
They were tied for the 3rd lowest yards allowed per play with Seattle and Denver @ 4.9 (Minnesota and JAX were the only teams with a lower figure... 4.8)
The Cardinals defense struggled a bit in the RZ (8th worst) - but they were very much hamstrung by a very poor offense that had some of the worst possession and scoring numbers in football.
I’m not a big stats guy in football. The Cardinals have had one of the best defense’s in the MFL for years now. Great pressure packages. I’d take him over Del Rio in a heartbeat.
The Cardinals defense struggled a bit in the RZ (8th worst) - but they were very much hamstrung by a very poor offense that had some of the worst possession and scoring numbers in football.
This is a very important point. Especially when comparing guys like Bettcher and say, Patricia. How often do opposing teams have a short field to march down against the Pats? Rarely. When your offense can string together 10, 12 play drives that end in scores, it gives a huge lift to your D. This is part of the reason the Giants' D took such a big step back this year.
Quote:
Looking under the hood a bit...
The Cardinals defense struggled a bit in the RZ (8th worst) - but they were very much hamstrung by a very poor offense that had some of the worst possession and scoring numbers in football.
This is a very important point. Especially when comparing guys like Bettcher and say, Patricia. How often do opposing teams have a short field to march down against the Pats? Rarely. When your offense can string together 10, 12 play drives that end in scores, it gives a huge lift to your D. This is part of the reason the Giants' D took such a big step back this year.
This was also the reason why Rod Marinelli got more credit than he deserved in Dallas prior to this season.
DAL offense had been chewing up massive amounts of clock and possession because of the OL and Elliott, leaving their defense less susceptible to short fields and easy points.
This is exactly what happened to NYG in 2013. The 2013 defense here was actually not poor - but the offense and special teams constantly put them in bad spots (and even allowed points before the defense even stepped onto the field in several instances)
3-4 would not be bad at all for this team.
Snacks as NT. Tomlinson to spell him and play some DE. JPP as a 3-4 DE would be nice. OV can play DE and 3-4 OLB.. Goodson as 1 ILB. We just need more LB's period. Kennard might have been better off as a 3-4 OLB after starting his career off in the 4-3 but I think he is a F/A.
JPP-Snacks-Tomlinson
Kennard-Goodson-??-Vernon
Need one player, and could probably use an upgrade over Kennard.
Tomlinson can't play end. Not mobile enough.
Quote:
some make it seem.
JPP-Snacks-Tomlinson
Kennard-Goodson-??-Vernon
Need one player, and could probably use an upgrade over Kennard.
Tomlinson can't play end. Not mobile enough.
Guess again. It's what he played at Alabama.
JPP-Snacks-Tomlinson
Kennard-Goodson-??-Vernon
Need one player, and could probably use an upgrade over Kennard.
Tomlinson and JPP aren't suited to those positions.
Quote:
some make it seem.
JPP-Snacks-Tomlinson
Kennard-Goodson-??-Vernon
Need one player, and could probably use an upgrade over Kennard.
Tomlinson and JPP aren't suited to those positions.
Tough to 2-Gap with 1 hand
He lined up as a 2-gap penetrating end w/ Alabama.
Quote:
In comment 13802957 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
some make it seem.
JPP-Snacks-Tomlinson
Kennard-Goodson-??-Vernon
Need one player, and could probably use an upgrade over Kennard.
Tomlinson can't play end. Not mobile enough.
Guess again. It's what he played at Alabama.
He did play inside and outside. But it's different in the pros. Don't know if he'd be suited for it.
Can Del Rio be assistant head coach and Bettcher DC? Del Rio can assist Shurmur in a lot of the HC responsibilities (time management, etc) as Shurmur wants to call the plays.
BUT, can Vernon actually play OLB? And what to do with JPP? I don't see him as having the game or the will to 2-gap, and seriously despite my joke earlier, how can you 2-gap with 1 hand? They aren't that good as 4-3 DEs either, so maybe it doesn't matter. In any case, hey are stuck with them for at least 1 more year.
Even Avery Moss might be a good fit at OLB. Need another big boy DE to man the line. But wouldn't be a hard transition to that Defense at all.