we kept drafting "hybrids" like Torbor and Sintim and trying to make them into 4-3 LB's, instead of letting them rush the passer. Never made any sense.
Good point - who was the former Giants LB who posted on BBI a little while back, may have been a Q&A?
IIRC he essentially said this too - a guy like Sintim was a talented player, but the Giants drafted him with no plan to maximize his talents, instead shoe-horned him into a role that exposed his weaknesses
Good point - who was the former Giants LB who posted on BBI a little while back, may have been a Q&A?
IIRC he essentially said this too - a guy like Sintim was a talented player, but the Giants drafted him with no plan to maximize his talents, instead shoe-horned him into a role that exposed his weaknesses
That was Bryan Kehl. And he was absolutely right about Sintim - I'm the biggest UVA homer here by far, and I loved Clint Sintim, but he was completely miscast as a 4-3 OLB and I said so the day they drafted him. He was a 3-4 pass rusher from day 1 at Virginia and he excelled at it. He never was asked to play in space and there was no reason to think he could do it. They set him up to fail. Had he been drafted by, say, the Steelers (and not torn his knee up), he would have been a success.
I have no idea if he was any good in that role, but I think he did it.
They did move him around a bit - I know they would sometimes line him up as a LBer over the top and have him shoot the A-gap. It seemed to work well when they used his versatility.
I would be thrilled with either or Del Rio. I wasnt expecting the Giants to work so hard to hire a big name DC but they are doing it. Bettcher is a very good DC and he would be a big upgrade over Spags.
how Del Rio is getting lambasted for being a retread and a stale name when most of BBI would sign up for 80 year old Dick LeBeau or Wade Phillips for DC (and rightfully so).
about the young guy is that people who never heard of him 6 months ago want to sign up for him because he's discussed as a "hot prospect". Then they act like this guy is a can't miss coach who they have championed all along.
Bettcher is a solid DC. Del Rio has been a solid DC. Not sure why one guy has to be trashed to elevate another guy, especially by people who didn't even hear his name prior to a couple weeks ago.
for a 3-4 vs a 4-3, so it matters which is your base defense, but (as someone else observed on BBI) modern defenses aren't strictly one or the other. Sometimes they show a 4-3 look, sometimes a 3-4.
Given the Giants' tradition of great linebackers and the crummy LB play of recent years, I understand the desire to get back to standout linebackers. I happen to prefer the 4-3, which is supposed to be better against the pass, but I really don't care how the players line up as long as the D is good and the Giants are winning.
I think it was a BBIer who said worrying about whether a DC runs a 4-3 or a 3-4 is like worrying about whether an OC runs an "I-formation" offense.
Tennessee is interviewing him today at the Senior Bowl as well....
Why are people so worried about the coordinator leaving for a new job?
If that happens, it means we hired the right guy.
Shouldn't we all want the next Pat Shurmur to be our OC? That's kind of the idea here.
The goal isn't to find a coordinator who we don't have to worry about leaving us.. we just did that with Spagnuolo.
The goal is to find the guy who does his job the best.
It goes both ways. There is a lot of value to what the Rams have with Wade Phillips as DC, or what the Panthers may potentially have with Norv Turner as OC. Excellent coordinators who will be there for as long as they are performing. Im all for the young guy, but one & done would be frustrating. Remember Spags to Sheridan?
Why are people so worried about the coordinator leaving for a new job?
If that happens, it means we hired the right guy.
Shouldn't we all want the next Pat Shurmur to be our OC? That's kind of the idea here.
The goal isn't to find a coordinator who we don't have to worry about leaving us.. we just did that with Spagnuolo.
The goal is to find the guy who does his job the best.
It goes both ways. There is a lot of value to what the Rams have with Wade Phillips as DC, or what the Panthers may potentially have with Norv Turner as OC. Excellent coordinators who will be there for as long as they are performing. Im all for the young guy, but one & done would be frustrating. Remember Spags to Sheridan?
Del Rio is probably the closest we can get to a Wade/Norv type of coordinator.
My point is that I wouldn't pass on a guy because I was worried he might leave if he sees success here. All that means is that we fielded an impressive defense and probably won a bunch of games (unless the offense is horrendous again)
I'm personally more concerned with results than how long the guy can stay here if we get them.
If you told me Del Rio would come here and field an average defense for the next 5 years or Bettcher would come here and field a top 5 unit but would leave after next season or the season after, I'd still sign up for that instead.
Converting to a 3-4 would be a pretty smooth process, plus the popularity of the 4-3 creates a fruitful market of overlooked 3-4 specialists.
A front consisting of Tomlinson, Harrison, and JPP would be a really strong foundation. JPP, for all his high effort and hustle, never developed as a well-rounded edge rusher. Obviously the hand injury further marginalized him. But he still battles and anchors vs the run, and he still infects passing with his length.
Asking him to bulk up a bit could reinvigorate his career and also rescue his multi-year deal from being a total sunk cost. And he could he still contribute as a storng side rusher or interior rusher in passing situation when we might use 4 DL.
Why are people so worried about the coordinator leaving for a new job?
If that happens, it means we hired the right guy.
Shouldn't we all want the next Pat Shurmur to be our OC? That's kind of the idea here.
The goal isn't to find a coordinator who we don't have to worry about leaving us.. we just did that with Spagnuolo.
The goal is to find the guy who does his job the best.
True, but the turnover sucks. As hard as it is to find a good coordinator, you hate to have to change your defense every other year.
Of course - I just wouldn't use it as a "negative" or a reason why I wouldn't hire someone.
If I'm really worried about losing the guy, it means I have strong convictions about what he can do and the results he can get - which is all that matters.
If he does admirably well here and gets an elevated gig elsewhere - so be it.
Converting to a 3-4 would be a pretty smooth process, plus the popularity of the 4-3 creates a fruitful market of overlooked 3-4 specialists.
A front consisting of Tomlinson, Harrison, and JPP would be a really strong foundation. JPP, for all his high effort and hustle, never developed as a well-rounded edge rusher. Obviously the hand injury further marginalized him. But he still battles and anchors vs the run, and he still infects passing with his length.
Asking him to bulk up a bit could reinvigorate his career and also rescue his multi-year deal from being a total sunk cost. And he could he still contribute as a storng side rusher or interior rusher in passing situation when we might use 4 DL.
Has The Thrill Ride abandoned the 3rd person schtick? Lol
Ian RapoportVerified account
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With the hire of Steve Wilks, the #AZCardinals have cut loose most of their assistants including respected DL coach Brentson Buckner. Hell have a job quickly.
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James Bettcher met with the Giants and Titans at the senior bowl today, hearing hes at the top of the list with both teams. He could be leaning with the #Titans.
It was posted in another thread, said he was a 9 to 5 guy, a bit lazy, doesn't put in the extra time needed. I have no idea how true this is, just regurgitating what I read. To me, that's a bit disconcerting.
made the playoffs in Oakland year one, and just missed the playoffs in year 2 despite losing his starting QB for 1/2 the year.
You guys are making it sound like he had a McAdoo-like collapse, while they were in the hunt until the last 2 weeks, even with Carr missing significant time.
Not to mention that he'd be a DC, a position he's excelled at, not a HC.
Are people going to dissect Wade Phillips and Dick Lebeau's HC tenures, too?
@mikejurecki
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James Bettcher met with the Giants and Titans at the senior bowl today, hearing hes at the top of the list with both teams. He could be leaning with the #Titans.
I always wonder how a writer would know which job a guy would prefer so soon after an interview, or whether the teams have him as their first choice. Speculation? An agent's take? Complete crock?
Good point - who was the former Giants LB who posted on BBI a little while back, may have been a Q&A?
IIRC he essentially said this too - a guy like Sintim was a talented player, but the Giants drafted him with no plan to maximize his talents, instead shoe-horned him into a role that exposed his weaknesses
IIRC he essentially said this too - a guy like Sintim was a talented player, but the Giants drafted him with no plan to maximize his talents, instead shoe-horned him into a role that exposed his weaknesses
That was Bryan Kehl. And he was absolutely right about Sintim - I'm the biggest UVA homer here by far, and I loved Clint Sintim, but he was completely miscast as a 4-3 OLB and I said so the day they drafted him. He was a 3-4 pass rusher from day 1 at Virginia and he excelled at it. He never was asked to play in space and there was no reason to think he could do it. They set him up to fail. Had he been drafted by, say, the Steelers (and not torn his knee up), he would have been a success.
They did move him around a bit - I know they would sometimes line him up as a LBer over the top and have him shoot the A-gap. It seemed to work well when they used his versatility.
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In comment 13802835 jeff57 said:
Quote:
?
I believe they are!
And this on the heels of the Giants looking at LBs at the Senior Bowl...
CUE SPECULATION!
Giants need 3 new LBs just to play a 4-3.
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Vernon played very well as a 3-4 DE in Miami. In fact, thats why NYG gave him a big contract.
He's 80, not 89
nice problem to have...
Bettcher is a solid DC. Del Rio has been a solid DC. Not sure why one guy has to be trashed to elevate another guy, especially by people who didn't even hear his name prior to a couple weeks ago.
Given the Giants' tradition of great linebackers and the crummy LB play of recent years, I understand the desire to get back to standout linebackers. I happen to prefer the 4-3, which is supposed to be better against the pass, but I really don't care how the players line up as long as the D is good and the Giants are winning.
I think it was a BBIer who said worrying about whether a DC runs a 4-3 or a 3-4 is like worrying about whether an OC runs an "I-formation" offense.
True, but with Titans he'd be a former linebacker coach working under a head coach who is a former linebacker.
With NYG, he'd be "the" D guy.
Depends what he wants.
As for possibility he'd be moving on to be a HC, yes, there's that, so you have to hope he'll attract good position assistants.
If that happens, it means we hired the right guy.
Shouldn't we all want the next Pat Shurmur to be our OC? That's kind of the idea here.
The goal isn't to find a coordinator who we don't have to worry about leaving us.. we just did that with Spagnuolo.
The goal is to find the guy who does his job the best.
If that happens, it means we hired the right guy.
Shouldn't we all want the next Pat Shurmur to be our OC? That's kind of the idea here.
The goal isn't to find a coordinator who we don't have to worry about leaving us.. we just did that with Spagnuolo.
The goal is to find the guy who does his job the best.
It goes both ways. There is a lot of value to what the Rams have with Wade Phillips as DC, or what the Panthers may potentially have with Norv Turner as OC. Excellent coordinators who will be there for as long as they are performing. Im all for the young guy, but one & done would be frustrating. Remember Spags to Sheridan?
Quote:
Why are people so worried about the coordinator leaving for a new job?
If that happens, it means we hired the right guy.
Shouldn't we all want the next Pat Shurmur to be our OC? That's kind of the idea here.
The goal isn't to find a coordinator who we don't have to worry about leaving us.. we just did that with Spagnuolo.
The goal is to find the guy who does his job the best.
It goes both ways. There is a lot of value to what the Rams have with Wade Phillips as DC, or what the Panthers may potentially have with Norv Turner as OC. Excellent coordinators who will be there for as long as they are performing. Im all for the young guy, but one & done would be frustrating. Remember Spags to Sheridan?
Del Rio is probably the closest we can get to a Wade/Norv type of coordinator.
My point is that I wouldn't pass on a guy because I was worried he might leave if he sees success here. All that means is that we fielded an impressive defense and probably won a bunch of games (unless the offense is horrendous again)
I'm personally more concerned with results than how long the guy can stay here if we get them.
If you told me Del Rio would come here and field an average defense for the next 5 years or Bettcher would come here and field a top 5 unit but would leave after next season or the season after, I'd still sign up for that instead.
Quote:
No love for octogenarians?
He's 80, not 89
Ever heard of a thing called a joke...
A front consisting of Tomlinson, Harrison, and JPP would be a really strong foundation. JPP, for all his high effort and hustle, never developed as a well-rounded edge rusher. Obviously the hand injury further marginalized him. But he still battles and anchors vs the run, and he still infects passing with his length.
Asking him to bulk up a bit could reinvigorate his career and also rescue his multi-year deal from being a total sunk cost. And he could he still contribute as a storng side rusher or interior rusher in passing situation when we might use 4 DL.
Quote:
In comment 13803261 Carson53 said:
Quote:
No love for octogenarians?
He's 80, not 89
.
Ever heard of a thing called a joke...
Would it have been so difficult to be honest and admit that the 9 is right next to the 0 on your keyboard?
If that happens, it means we hired the right guy.
Shouldn't we all want the next Pat Shurmur to be our OC? That's kind of the idea here.
The goal isn't to find a coordinator who we don't have to worry about leaving us.. we just did that with Spagnuolo.
The goal is to find the guy who does his job the best.
True, but the turnover sucks. As hard as it is to find a good coordinator, you hate to have to change your defense every other year.
Quote:
Why are people so worried about the coordinator leaving for a new job?
If that happens, it means we hired the right guy.
Shouldn't we all want the next Pat Shurmur to be our OC? That's kind of the idea here.
The goal isn't to find a coordinator who we don't have to worry about leaving us.. we just did that with Spagnuolo.
The goal is to find the guy who does his job the best.
True, but the turnover sucks. As hard as it is to find a good coordinator, you hate to have to change your defense every other year.
Of course - I just wouldn't use it as a "negative" or a reason why I wouldn't hire someone.
If I'm really worried about losing the guy, it means I have strong convictions about what he can do and the results he can get - which is all that matters.
If he does admirably well here and gets an elevated gig elsewhere - so be it.
A front consisting of Tomlinson, Harrison, and JPP would be a really strong foundation. JPP, for all his high effort and hustle, never developed as a well-rounded edge rusher. Obviously the hand injury further marginalized him. But he still battles and anchors vs the run, and he still infects passing with his length.
Asking him to bulk up a bit could reinvigorate his career and also rescue his multi-year deal from being a total sunk cost. And he could he still contribute as a storng side rusher or interior rusher in passing situation when we might use 4 DL.
Has The Thrill Ride abandoned the 3rd person schtick? Lol
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With the hire of Steve Wilks, the #AZCardinals have cut loose most of their assistants including respected DL coach Brentson Buckner. Hell have a job quickly.
It has already been reported that he's not returning as DC. That ship has sailed.
1. Any coordinator worth his weight can run a 3-4 or a 4-3. So much of a game is played in subpackages anyway.
2. Our 4-3 defense has sucked for the better part of 5 years so a switch might help.
3. Our personnel is such we can play a 3-4. OV is more of an OLB. Snacks is a NT and Tomlinson can easily play DE.
4. Why would you not hire him? New HC and maybe new HC prefers a 3-4? Our linebackers suck in 4-3
6m6 minutes ago
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James Bettcher met with the Giants and Titans at the senior bowl today, hearing hes at the top of the list with both teams. He could be leaning with the #Titans.
You guys are making it sound like he had a McAdoo-like collapse, while they were in the hunt until the last 2 weeks, even with Carr missing significant time.
Not to mention that he'd be a DC, a position he's excelled at, not a HC.
Are people going to dissect Wade Phillips and Dick Lebeau's HC tenures, too?
6m6 minutes ago
More
James Bettcher met with the Giants and Titans at the senior bowl today, hearing hes at the top of the list with both teams. He could be leaning with the #Titans.
I always wonder how a writer would know which job a guy would prefer so soon after an interview, or whether the teams have him as their first choice. Speculation? An agent's take? Complete crock?
How is adding nine years to his age making a joke? It's not as if the nine years were needed to make him an octogenarian - he already is one.
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