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How does last night affect Eli's legacy?

Bramton1 : 2/5/2018 12:19 pm
24 hours ago, Eli was the only quarterback to go head-to-head against Tom Brady in the Super Bowl and win. And when Giants fans pointed to his postseason success and some moron shouted out, "What about Trent Dilfer? Are you saying he should be in the Hall of Fame," we should calmly answer, "Did Dilfer win MVP and lead a last minute game-winning drive? No? Then STFO."

Now when we talk about Eli's legacy, some mouth-breather can respond, "What about Nick Foles? Are you saying he should be in the Hall of Fame?" Sure, we can say Eli did it twice, but when if the Eagles keep Foles, Wentz goes down again next year, and the Eagles win again? Sure, we can point to Eli's career stats, but to most critics, Eli's interception total is the only stat worth talking about.

Like it or not, I think Eli's HOF chances took a hit last night.
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I'm sure you'll come up with something clever  
Mike from Ohio : 2/5/2018 12:31 pm : link
to say to the imaginary people asking you hypothetical questions.

Outside of his commercial, nothing about last night had anything to do with Eli Manning.
oh please  
Rocky369 : 2/5/2018 12:31 pm : link
Foles didn't even throw all of his team's TD passes
RE: It absolutely did affect his legacy  
jeff57 : 2/5/2018 12:32 pm : link
In comment 13821992 Giants in 07 said:
Quote:
Which is why it's so fucking baffling to me that even a fairweather Giants fan would prefer the Eagles winning that game.

Everything we had is gone.

Eli being the only QB to beat Brady
Giants only team to beat Belichick
Eagles no Super Bowls

It's all gone.


Oh, FFS.
I am not one who thinks Eli is a sure thing for Canton  
Greg from LI : 2/5/2018 12:32 pm : link
But last night's game has absolutely no relevance to his case.
13 year starter who's #6 all time in career passing  
njm : 2/5/2018 12:34 pm : link
That doesn't come into play?

People aren't saying Jeff Hostetler belonged in the HOF.
RE: The commercial helped  
MotownGIANTS : 2/5/2018 12:35 pm : link
In comment 13821981 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
game had no impact.


that crap was the gayest BS ever.
Who are we rooting for next year  
Mr. Nickels : 2/5/2018 12:35 pm : link
Cowboys to get their 6th? Won't hurt Eli!
RE: RE: The commercial helped  
jeff57 : 2/5/2018 12:35 pm : link
In comment 13822054 MotownGIANTS said:
Quote:
In comment 13821981 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


game had no impact.



that crap was the gayest BS ever.


Not that there was anything wrong with it.
RE: 13 year starter who's #6 all time in career passing  
BillKo : 2/5/2018 12:40 pm : link
In comment 13822052 njm said:
Quote:
That doesn't come into play?

People aren't saying Jeff Hostetler belonged in the HOF.


Actually, good point.

Does Hos winning, and beating Buffalo, take away from Troy Aikman's three wins, two of which came against Buffalo?

Of course not...and why the logic fails miserably.
I honestly don't care.  
Mr. Bungle : 2/5/2018 12:40 pm : link
There's no "Only QB (or Team) to Beat Brady (or Belichick) in the Super Bowl" trophy.

I want the Giants to win Lombardis. And I wanted the Eagles to never, ever win a Lombardi.

The unspeakable horror last night was the Eagles winning a Lombardi, not any perceived hit on the Giants' or Eli's legacy.

Besides, the Giants (with Eli) beat an 18-0 Patriots team that was way, way better that the 2017 Patriots. Eli actually had to beat a good defense.
exactly  
Greg from LI : 2/5/2018 12:42 pm : link
There is no equivalence between these Patriots and the 2007 Patriots. None. The Giants beat their greatest team, the Eagles beat the Arena League version of that team.
RE: RE: The commercial helped  
Boy Cord : 2/5/2018 12:43 pm : link
In comment 13822054 MotownGIANTS said:
Quote:
In comment 13821981 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


game had no impact.



that crap was the gayest BS ever.


Seriously. I cringed. Very uncomfortable watching it, partially due to 3-13.
No.  
old man : 2/5/2018 12:43 pm : link
.
RE: exactly  
Boy Cord : 2/5/2018 12:45 pm : link
In comment 13822081 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
There is no equivalence between these Patriots and the 2007 Patriots. None. The Giants beat their greatest team, the Eagles beat the Arena League version of that team.


Perfect analogy. The NFL downgraded itself last night to the Arena League. That game didn't resemble anything that I am interested in watching on a regular basis. If that's the NFL's future, I have better things to do with my time.
Not  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 2/5/2018 12:56 pm : link
at all.
I donít really care about Eliís reputation  
5BowlsSoon : 2/5/2018 1:03 pm : link
But Eli also won two super bowls because of our great defense. After all, we didnít score a lot of points in both of those wins. True, he did orchestrate last minute tds which looks impressive, but the bottom line is still....how many points did you score? 21

Foles got 41, so in comparison, Foles performance in one game scored about what Eli orchestrated in two. And again, Eli had a great defense getting him the ball more.

Nevertheless, Eli probably wonít be considered a great qb because his stats donít reflect greatness. He is a good qb though.
RE: I donít really care about Eliís reputation  
Bill L : 2/5/2018 1:04 pm : link
In comment 13822164 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
But Eli also won two super bowls because of our great defense. After all, we didnít score a lot of points in both of those wins. True, he did orchestrate last minute tds which looks impressive, but the bottom line is still....how many points did you score? 21

Foles got 41, so in comparison, Foles performance in one game scored about what Eli orchestrated in two. And again, Eli had a great defense getting him the ball more.

Nevertheless, Eli probably wonít be considered a great qb because his stats donít reflect greatness. He is a good qb though.
He's a HoF QB. Period.
Foles put up 41 on the crappy 2017 Patriots defense  
Greg from LI : 2/5/2018 1:05 pm : link
Not the excellent 2007 Patriots defense.
Some BBIers worry too much.  
81_Great_Dane : 2/5/2018 1:09 pm : link
Life is short. Enjoy it.

Eli's legacy is what it is. The rings are the rings, the Super Bowl wins are the Super Bowl wins, nobody's erasing those two episodes of "America's Game." The Eagles won, but "everything we had is gone" seems wrong to me.
We will allows have the win  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 2/5/2018 1:11 pm : link
over the 18-0 Pats in the Super Bowl. No one can ever take that from this organization.
I think Eli will have difficulty getting into the HOF  
moespree : 2/5/2018 1:13 pm : link
Because the writers are morons, many of which appear to buy into a false narrative that Eli had nothing to do with both Super Bowls and was little more than an upgraded version of Trent Dilfer. This is nonsense of course.

But that being said, I don't see what Nick Foles defeating the 2017 Patriots has to do with Eli defeating the 2007 and 2011 Patriots. Though, I wouldn't be surprised if there is some slob HOF voter who does in fact use that as 'evidence' against Eli.
RE: Foles put up 41 on the crappy 2017 Patriots defense  
5BowlsSoon : 2/5/2018 1:14 pm : link
In comment 13822168 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Not the excellent 2007 Patriots defense.


NE defense allowed 18.5 points per game, fifth best in the NFL this year. FYI, Philly was fourth best, 18.4.

I know they gave up some passing yards early in the season due to injuries and new players adjusting to new system, but 18.5 is pretty impressive. To get 41........wow
But I agree  
5BowlsSoon : 2/5/2018 1:22 pm : link
Last nights game has nothing to do with Elis Legacy.
ELI was screwed by our front office  
TMS : 2/5/2018 1:22 pm : link
and personnel selectors who never got him what he needed to win more than he did. Maybe he has them now, we will see.
RE: this Pats team wasn't very good  
Mike in Philly : 2/5/2018 1:24 pm : link
In comment 13821997 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
... no big threat at WR ...

Well, they did until Cooks was knocked out.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't hear a lot of people talking about this. I personally think it was a game-changer. JMHO...
If Eli and Foles can beat Brady  
SHO'NUFF : 2/5/2018 1:26 pm : link
any Joe Schmoe can.
Probably doesn't for most people.  
GiantFilthy : 2/5/2018 1:28 pm : link
For me personally it pretty much erases anything he has ever done for this franchise.
RE: RE: this Pats team wasn't very good  
Bill L : 2/5/2018 1:29 pm : link
In comment 13822229 Mike in Philly said:
Quote:
In comment 13821997 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


... no big threat at WR ...


Well, they did until Cooks was knocked out.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't hear a lot of people talking about this. I personally think it was a game-changer. JMHO...
Personally, I thought it was a cheap shot by Jenkins
RE: RE: this Pats team wasn't very good  
5BowlsSoon : 2/5/2018 1:30 pm : link
In comment 13822229 Mike in Philly said:
Quote:
In comment 13821997 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


... no big threat at WR ...


Well, they did until Cooks was knocked out.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't hear a lot of people talking about this. I personally think it was a game-changer. JMHO...


Lol.....game changer. They scored every time they had the ball after he left. They didnít need him one bit. Gronk, Hogan, and Amendola ate all night long.
RE: Probably doesn't for most people.  
Bill L : 2/5/2018 1:30 pm : link
In comment 13822246 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
For me personally it pretty much erases anything he has ever done for this franchise.
Including his charity work.
RE: RE: this Pats team wasn't very good  
pjcas18 : 2/5/2018 1:31 pm : link
In comment 13822229 Mike in Philly said:
Quote:
In comment 13821997 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


... no big threat at WR ...


Well, they did until Cooks was knocked out.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't hear a lot of people talking about this. I personally think it was a game-changer. JMHO...


Brady threw for 505 yards, 3 TD's and 0 INTs.

With Cooks their offense wouldn't have struggled so much?
His legacy is cemented  
mjba8994 : 2/5/2018 1:33 pm : link
Ruining a perfect season the first time, and beating them while having one of the worst O-lines and a rushing game that was dead last in the NFL the second time. He also had to engineer a game winning drive to win them. Also, the road to the Super Bowl was way tougher for Eli than it was for Nick Foles and the Eagles. Nick didn't have to play the Packers in the frozen Tundra. This Eagles' victory is nothing compared to the two that Eli had.
Casting my vote with the no impact crowd.  
SeanLandeta : 2/5/2018 1:39 pm : link
His legacy stands for itself and his HOF credentials have not changed from yesterday to today. Sure it was catchy to say he's the only one to have beaten the BB/TB combo, but ultimately that nice saying wasn't going to get him into the Hall and Foles/Eagles winning this one isn't keeping him out.

I do believe he makes it and don't believe last night played a role either way.
It didn't hurt his legacy. It may have hurt his chances for  
CT Charlie : 2/5/2018 2:02 pm : link
the Hall of Fame -- going down from 65 % to 59%, according to the world's most advanced computer.
why is this board so Eli centric??  
Pep22 : 2/5/2018 2:03 pm : link
look, typically 17 and 21 points which isn't typically good enough to win in the SB or most games but good for him that he played mistake free football during those runs (atypical for him)

also, let's be sure to look back and credit the Defense for shutting down explosive offenses
He's a lock  
GiantTuff1 : 2/5/2018 2:08 pm : link
very different games, although it sucks we lost certain bragging rights on Brady, and Eagles fans.

RE: why is this board so Eli centric??  
SethFromAstoria : 2/5/2018 2:43 pm : link
In comment 13822351 Pep22 said:
Quote:
look, typically 17 and 21 points which isn't typically good enough to win in the SB or most games but good for him that he played mistake free football during those runs (atypical for him)

also, let's be sure to look back and credit the Defense for shutting down explosive offenses


Look at what the hell you;re asking man..,seriously what the hell is in the PCP youre taking man?
Eli's HOF status took a hit because the Pats couldnt with a game  
SethFromAstoria : 2/5/2018 2:44 pm : link
where their QB had 550 yards and more yards than any loser in any game all time??? Why am I here...theres no way this is a Giants fan. zero chance.
The HoF is just a survey of some people's opinion,  
LAXin : 2/5/2018 3:07 pm : link
and that's all it is, like it or not.

And people have already repeatedly expressed the opinion on this matter, with amazing consensus: how many times did they vote Eli as among the top players in his position, aka, the All-Pro (1st and 2nd team) voting, the MVP voting, and the OPOY voting ? Where have they consistently placed Eli in the annual voting of NFL Top-100 players? How many of his peers have voiced fear -- not respect, but fear -- of Eli be their opponent, with his career record of 8 games over .500 over 14 years?

Beating the Patriots twice in the Super Bowls constitutes 95% of Eli's credential to a borderline HoF status, so of course last night's results matters. It took a big chunk out of that credential and mystique.

THis makes no sense to me.  
BBelle21 : 2/5/2018 3:25 pm : link
Why would an Eagles win take anything away from Eli being a 2xSBMVP in addition to him being likely being in the top 5 in every major all time category. Itís a silly thing that fans loved to take pride in but it has no substance to it.
Regarding Trent Dilfer,  
Section331 : 2/5/2018 3:28 pm : link
my response would be to quote Bill Parcells. Almost any QB can win it once; winning it twice is no fluke. Add in the fact that Eli was MVP in both, his legacy is secure.
The Eagles have been a good franchise for  
joeinpa : 2/5/2018 4:37 pm : link
A while now. Sooner or later things were going to break right for them to win.

The idea that this somehow tarnished the Giants wins is an obsession on this board I don t get.

The Pats are 5-4 in Super Bowls, 5-3 with Brady. Everyone of their games had a chance to go either way.

It s not like the Eagles pulled off an unbelievable upset. Their path to this game was much easier than the Giants in 0-7, and the Patriots were not 18 - 0

The idea that this in anyway detracts from what the Giants and Eli accomplished in 07, is a creation of some pretty insecure Giants fans

Maybe is cheapens the MVP SB award  
xman : 2/5/2018 5:49 pm : link
if a guy like Foles can win it. Thats the big claim to fame for Eli here on BBI. Its kind of a knee jerk BS award drummed up for the audience and the super bowl hype
RE: The Eagles have been a good franchise for  
LAXin : 2/5/2018 6:03 pm : link
In comment 13822667 joeinpa said:
Quote:
The idea that this in anyway detracts from what the Giants and Eli accomplished in 07, is a creation of some pretty insecure Giants fans


But had the Patriots won again last night, then surely a lot fans would have proudly reminded the world that "only Eli and the Giants have beaten the Brady and the Pats!!" In fact, how many here rooted for a NE Super Bowl win in 2014 and 2016 for that exact reason, even though their opponents were not the hated Eagles?

So now that the reverse had happened, now that this unique claim is no longer true, it has no effect on how non-Giants fans view Eli's achievement? What a wishful thinking that Patriots' Super Bowl performance, a very significant event, is somehow a one-way street on impacting Eli's legacy.
I think Eli gets in at some point.....  
Simms11 : 2/5/2018 6:10 pm : link
Heís got the statistics to back it up, but heís not a first ballot IMO. Won-Loss record will hurt him moreso, but losses are not always about the QB. Giants will go into next year with the oldest QB in the Division and quite possibly the least nimble. In order for Eli to make a dent in peopleís thinking on his HOF chances, heís got to finish strong. Hopefully Shurmur is the guy to get that out of Eli.
RE: It absolutely did affect his legacy  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/5/2018 8:52 pm : link
In comment 13821992 Giants in 07 said:
Quote:
Which is why it's so fucking baffling to me that even a fairweather Giants fan would prefer the Eagles winning that game.

Everything we had is gone.

Eli being the only QB to beat Brady
Giants only team to beat Belichick
Eagles no Super Bowls

It's all gone.

Holy shit. Call Tosh.
Give Foles Some Credit/ Eli's legacy Intact  
Rong5611 : 2/6/2018 8:33 am : link
Foles played great down the stretch. Made some great throws. Give credit where credit is due.

I don't think this has any impact on Manning. What he did, especially in '07, was awesome. Eagles don't factor into this.
you know what effected Eli's legacy, his last 2 seasons performance.  
Jersey55 : 2/6/2018 11:04 am : link
its going to be hard to make that go away...
RE: RE: It absolutely did affect his legacy  
Mad Mike : 2/6/2018 11:11 am : link
In comment 13822962 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
Holy shit. Call Tosh.

Well played indeed!
RE: RE: It absolutely did affect his legacy  
Giants in 07 : 2/6/2018 11:21 am : link
In comment 13822962 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13821992 Giants in 07 said:


Quote:


Which is why it's so fucking baffling to me that even a fairweather Giants fan would prefer the Eagles winning that game.

Everything we had is gone.

Eli being the only QB to beat Brady
Giants only team to beat Belichick
Eagles no Super Bowls

It's all gone.


Holy shit. Call Tosh.


Doesn't make what I said any less true.

It's all gone.

Seriously though, I don't think this does anything to Eli's resume for the HOF per se, but the perception of him being the only QB to conquer Mt. Brady was something I loved having over friends and family who don't root for the Giants. Our two runs against the Patriots were almost magical and in that sense, I'm sad those days are over. It's why I was rooting so hard for the Pats last year as well.

And of course it was the Eagles that did it.
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