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NFT: Willy to Charlotte

ajr2456 : 2/7/2018 11:21 am
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RE: LOL,  
ajr2456 : 2/7/2018 3:18 pm : link
In comment 13825595 Keith said:
Quote:
his value cannot get lower than what we just got from Charlotte. We got future 2nds for 3 years from now. You are honestly telling me that we couldn't get that in the offseason? Give him minutes in the second half, theres a better chance that his value goes up.


You could have one second round pick. His value wasn't going up with more playing time. Teams saw him play last year, they saw him play in limited minutes this year. They know his limitations and his strengths.

It's more likely Willy ends up back in Spain in two years than being more than a third center on a team.
Willy  
TyreeHelmet : 2/7/2018 3:22 pm : link
Everyone is well aware of his flaws if you watch him play. However he still has positives- why do you think he got 1st team all rookie? He's not as good as Kanter, but is he 16 million dollars worse? Because he's locked in at 1.8 mill until 2020. Even if hes your 4th or 5th big, thats insane value- one of the only smart things Jackson did.

So what was the point of this? Hope you hit gold and one of those 2nds becomes a good player 6 years from now?

Terrible trade. You need to maximize your assets and the Knicks continue to do the opposite.
He's not going back to Spain. He can absolutely play in the NBA.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/7/2018 3:22 pm : link
He averages a double-double over 36 minutes and that's with barely any NBA experience. Not sure why anyone would frame it like he's some scrub.
Knicks  
Pete44 : 2/7/2018 3:23 pm : link
What a 24 hours to be Knicks fan
RE: RE: LOL,  
Keith : 2/7/2018 3:25 pm : link
In comment 13825604 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13825595 Keith said:


Quote:


his value cannot get lower than what we just got from Charlotte. We got future 2nds for 3 years from now. You are honestly telling me that we couldn't get that in the offseason? Give him minutes in the second half, theres a better chance that his value goes up.



You could have one second round pick. His value wasn't going up with more playing time. Teams saw him play last year, they saw him play in limited minutes this year. They know his limitations and his strengths.

It's more likely Willy ends up back in Spain in two years than being more than a third center on a team.


It's insane to suggest that a 2nd year player can't improve. He was a rookie last year. I'm trying to understand your angle and I just don't get it. Lets assume you are right and the risk was losing a 2nd round pick, they are better off taking the risk that he improves his value and they lose 1 of those 2nd rounders.

Having said all that, it's pointless to discuss further if you think he's maxed out on his ability after his successful rookie season.
RE: Knicks  
Keith : 2/7/2018 3:27 pm : link
In comment 13825615 Pete44 said:
Quote:
What a 24 hours to be Knicks fan


Here, fixed it.....What a 24 years to be a Knicks fan.
Also, lol at the "teams saw him in limited minutes this year"...  
Keith : 2/7/2018 3:28 pm : link
He's played 7 meaningful minutes in 50 games. Nobody saw a thing.
Obryant just got waived  
Earl the goat : 2/7/2018 3:29 pm : link
Kornet and Hicks on roster
RE: He's not going back to Spain. He can absolutely play in the NBA.  
ajr2456 : 2/7/2018 3:32 pm : link
In comment 13825611 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
He averages a double-double over 36 minutes and that's with barely any NBA experience. Not sure why anyone would frame it like he's some scrub.


Except he's not good enough to get on the court for 36 minutes a game.

Also those second round picks could end up having more trade value than Willy, or even sold for cash which can be used to make salary match in a trade.
Lee  
TyreeHelmet : 2/7/2018 3:32 pm : link
Windhorst on the Jump said he spoke to a GM last night about the Knicks selling off assets like Courtney Lee. GM said they can move them but won't be getting value back because of his contract. So much for that...
Luke Kornet and Isaiah Hicks are not NBA players  
Greg from LI : 2/7/2018 3:32 pm : link
Sorry
He's not deserving of minutes based on what?  
Keith : 2/7/2018 3:33 pm : link
Hornacek's rotations? We can poke holes in that all day long. Just because the coach isn't playing him doesn't make it the right decision.
RE: RE: He's not going back to Spain. He can absolutely play in the NBA.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/7/2018 3:35 pm : link
In comment 13825643 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13825611 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


He averages a double-double over 36 minutes and that's with barely any NBA experience. Not sure why anyone would frame it like he's some scrub.



Except he's not good enough to get on the court for 36 minutes a game.


It's indicative of his ability. Which means positioning him as a fringe NBA player or someone who should go to Europe is nonsense. In the judgement of Hornacek he's not good enough, Hornacek also thinks Jack IS good enough. Let's consider that.
hysterical:  
Enzo : 2/7/2018 3:37 pm : link
Quote:
Al Iannazzone
@Al_Iannazzone
The Knicks wanted the 2nd round picks. Perry said they didn't have picks in '20 and '21

yeah, because they traded them to get Wily! This whole move reeks of Mills caving to pressure from the agent.
RE: RE: RE: LOL,  
ajr2456 : 2/7/2018 3:39 pm : link
In comment 13825625 Keith said:
Quote:
In comment 13825604 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 13825595 Keith said:


Quote:


his value cannot get lower than what we just got from Charlotte. We got future 2nds for 3 years from now. You are honestly telling me that we couldn't get that in the offseason? Give him minutes in the second half, theres a better chance that his value goes up.



You could have one second round pick. His value wasn't going up with more playing time. Teams saw him play last year, they saw him play in limited minutes this year. They know his limitations and his strengths.

It's more likely Willy ends up back in Spain in two years than being more than a third center on a team.



It's insane to suggest that a 2nd year player can't improve. He was a rookie last year. I'm trying to understand your angle and I just don't get it. Lets assume you are right and the risk was losing a 2nd round pick, they are better off taking the risk that he improves his value and they lose 1 of those 2nd rounders.

Having said all that, it's pointless to discuss further if you think he's maxed out on his ability after his successful rookie season.


His ceiling isn't much higher than his current game. He's not athletic enough to suddenly become a very good defender, or play the four. He lacks basketball IQ, turns the ball over and doesn't move well vertically. He's never going to be a guy who stretches the floor. He's at best an average basketball player who doesn't have minutes to play once KP moves to the five.
Can I borrow  
Keith : 2/7/2018 3:45 pm : link
your crystal ball please?

Insane to suggest hes maxed out his ability and pointless to discuss futher. Lets agree to disagree.
:(  
DanMetroMan : 2/7/2018 3:47 pm : link
Jordan Schultz‏Verified account
@Schultz_Report
Following Following @Schultz_Report
More Jordan Schultz Retweeted Jordan Schultz
Donovan Mitchell is not a good NBA player ... he is a GREAT ONE. Averages 19, higher PER than Klay Thompson, Draymond, Middleton, Tatum. Since December, @spidadmitchell is shooting 71% in restricted area! Context: Trails one non-big in the NBA. His name? LeBron James! @utahjazz
RE: :(  
TyreeHelmet : 2/7/2018 3:54 pm : link
In comment 13825670 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Jordan Schultz‏Verified account
@Schultz_Report
Following Following @Schultz_Report
More Jordan Schultz Retweeted Jordan Schultz
Donovan Mitchell is not a good NBA player ... he is a GREAT ONE. Averages 19, higher PER than Klay Thompson, Draymond, Middleton, Tatum. Since December, @spidadmitchell is shooting 71% in restricted area! Context: Trails one non-big in the NBA. His name? LeBron James! @utahjazz



I'll play revisionist. Imagine hiring Thibs 2 years ago, drafting Mitchell, and not having the contracts of Noah/ Lee/ Baker/ Thomas/ Hardaway.

You'd be left with 2 potential superstars under 23 years old with about 70 million in cap space going into an offseason with Lebron and Paul George very attainable. One can dream...
RE: Luke Kornet and Isaiah Hicks are not NBA players  
Heisenberg : 2/7/2018 3:54 pm : link
In comment 13825648 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Sorry


I kinda like those guys. And, it seems clear that Scott Perry woke up today and decided to make room for them. We'll see if that was a good move or not.

I've watched some westchester games and Kornet has some serious range.
RE: :(  
Pete44 : 2/7/2018 3:56 pm : link
In comment 13825670 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Jordan Schultz‏Verified account
@Schultz_Report
Following Following @Schultz_Report
More Jordan Schultz Retweeted Jordan Schultz
Donovan Mitchell is not a good NBA player ... he is a GREAT ONE. Averages 19, higher PER than Klay Thompson, Draymond, Middleton, Tatum. Since December, @spidadmitchell is shooting 71% in restricted area! Context: Trails one non-big in the NBA. His name? LeBron James! @utahjazz


On this site, we all liked Mitchell, but the clamoring was about Denis Smith Jr and Malik Monk.
Lou Willianms' extension  
ajr2456 : 2/7/2018 3:57 pm : link
likely makes the market a little better for Lee.
I tried to make some sense of the trade from the Knicks perspective,  
JustaDiscussion : 2/7/2018 3:57 pm : link
then they went ahead and cut the guy they traded for. This makes it much harder to understand their vision. I thought I had a sense of what they were trying to do, I didn't really agree with it, but I thought I understood it. Now it just seems like they are winging it... I hope the next 24hrs proves different.
RE: Lee  
nygiants16 : 2/7/2018 4:00 pm : link
In comment 13825647 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
Windhorst on the Jump said he spoke to a GM last night about the Knicks selling off assets like Courtney Lee. GM said they can move them but won't be getting value back because of his contract. So much for that...


Lee has one of the better contracts in the nba windhorst is a moron
D Mitchell  
GMEN46 : 2/7/2018 4:04 pm : link
Metroman those stats are not even needed, you look at Mitchell and you see current and future superstar, the numbers are just gravy on the actual player. He is an absolute stud on every level. But according to many on this site, Frank will get more athletic and develop a better handle as he gets older and can still be better than Mitchell. As I said before the draft passing on D Mitchell would be a huge setback for this franchise, I try not to boast too much about my Mitchell call, but Metroman keeps feeding me. I remember people calling me some idiot who just watched some youtube dunks on Mitchell and I had no idea what i was talking about. I watched many of Mitchell's games and I watched Frank play in only a handful of games, but Mitchell had the it factor when you watched him. Frank does not. Knicks are already talking about moving him to off guard, because why? He doesnt have the quickness or handle to be a NBA PG. One way to fix this, which I have been saying for quite some time. Is to have him work on his post up game ala Mark Jackson and he can actually use his size and length to run point guard sets out of the post. Lets see if the Knicks will find a coach competent enough to figure this out. When KP is healthy have him standing face up between foul line and 3 point line and Frank should be able to post and score or kick to KP for open jumpers or pump fake drive and pull ups or dunks. Pretty simple concept.
I admittedly wasn't impressed with Mitchell pre-draft  
Greg from LI : 2/7/2018 4:07 pm : link
Maybe it's because the majority of the games I watched him play were Louisville-UVA games, and we have owned that team for years, but I never saw a guy who stood out as NBA star material.
RE: RE: Lee  
TyreeHelmet : 2/7/2018 4:09 pm : link
In comment 13825682 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13825647 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


Windhorst on the Jump said he spoke to a GM last night about the Knicks selling off assets like Courtney Lee. GM said they can move them but won't be getting value back because of his contract. So much for that...



Lee has one of the better contracts in the nba windhorst is a moron


While I agree Windhorst is a moron, Lee does not have one of the better contracts in the league. 12.5 mill per for a player going to be 33 in October isn't ideal. Especially on this team.
Courtney Lee  
Pete44 : 2/7/2018 4:12 pm : link
We are going to all explode when the Knicks get a couple of 2nd rounders for Courtney Lee, but I don't see them getting much more for him.

The teams interested don't really have 1st rounders to deal.

Also, Rodney Hood will be more highly coveted.
RE: RE: Lee  
Enzo : 2/7/2018 4:12 pm : link
In comment 13825682 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13825647 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


Windhorst on the Jump said he spoke to a GM last night about the Knicks selling off assets like Courtney Lee. GM said they can move them but won't be getting value back because of his contract. So much for that...



Lee has one of the better contracts in the nba windhorst is a moron

Lee has one of the better contracts on the Knicks.
While not grossly overpaid like most Knick free agents signings over the years, Lee's deal is still a tight squeeze given market conditions. Lou Williams just signed an extension for less than the MLE.
Lee is the 22nd  
ajr2456 : 2/7/2018 4:16 pm : link
highest paid SG in the league. Fair contract for his production this year.
Shooting Guards - ( New Window )
If trading Courtney Lee for second rounders  
bceagle05 : 2/7/2018 4:17 pm : link
improves our lottery position by one slot this year and next, I'd probably do it. With KP out, our next two draft selections are the only things I care about with this team.
Lou  
DanMetroMan : 2/7/2018 4:20 pm : link
Williams at that price is a steal. I mean the Clippers aren't going anywhere but that's a team friendly deal if I ever saw one.
RE: Courtney Lee  
TheVette : 2/7/2018 4:23 pm : link
In comment 13825696 Pete44 said:
Quote:
We are going to all explode when the Knicks get a couple of 2nd rounders for Courtney Lee, but I don't see them getting much more for him.

The teams interested don't really have 1st rounders to deal.

Also, Rodney Hood will be more highly coveted.


Unlike the Willy deal - the Knicks would be saving $25M over the next 2 years if they trade Lee for 2nd rounders. The Knicks saved all of $2.8M in dealing Willy for 2nd rounders - big difference.
RE: RE: Courtney Lee  
Heisenberg : 2/7/2018 4:26 pm : link
In comment 13825718 TheVette said:
Quote:
In comment 13825696 Pete44 said:


Quote:


We are going to all explode when the Knicks get a couple of 2nd rounders for Courtney Lee, but I don't see them getting much more for him.

The teams interested don't really have 1st rounders to deal.

Also, Rodney Hood will be more highly coveted.



Unlike the Willy deal - the Knicks would be saving $25M over the next 2 years if they trade Lee for 2nd rounders. The Knicks saved all of $2.8M in dealing Willy for 2nd rounders - big difference.


They won't be able to trade Lee without taking salary back.
Beasley  
Pete44 : 2/7/2018 4:27 pm : link
They need to trade or waive Beasley as well, because he will help them win a couple of games.
RE: Lou  
ajr2456 : 2/7/2018 4:28 pm : link
In comment 13825712 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Williams at that price is a steal. I mean the Clippers aren't going anywhere but that's a team friendly deal if I ever saw one.


They seem to think they'll attract a big free agent.
I love how  
Enzo : 2/7/2018 4:30 pm : link
Lou Williams signs for 2/15 guaranteed with the third year unguaranteed...and Ron Baker got 2/10 guaranteed with a second year player option and the no-trade protection that comes with a 1+1 deal. It's absurd. Can't wait to see what crazy contracts we give out this summer...
RE: RE: Lou  
DanMetroMan : 2/7/2018 4:38 pm : link
In comment 13825728 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13825712 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Williams at that price is a steal. I mean the Clippers aren't going anywhere but that's a team friendly deal if I ever saw one.



They seem to think they'll attract a big free agent.


Very well could be. At that price is makes sense either way. If they have to trade him off so be it.
This is a huge opportunity for Beasley to start  
Canton : 2/7/2018 4:41 pm : link
and show if he is worth resigning. If he shows consistency as a scorer Perry just might pull the trigger over the summer.
The funniest thing about that article  
nyjuggernaut2 : 2/7/2018 5:17 pm : link
is how it states that the Knicks will be actively seeking to get younger during this trading period. Yet, they just went and traded one of their young guys who made the All Rookie team a year ago...go figure.
RE: The funniest thing about that article  
bceagle05 : 2/7/2018 5:24 pm : link
In comment 13825783 nyjuggernaut2 said:
Quote:
is how it states that the Knicks will be actively seeking to get younger during this trading period. Yet, they just went and traded one of their young guys who made the All Rookie team a year ago...go figure.


Yeah, such a "Knicksy" thing to do. I guess it's possible there's zero trade market for O'Quinn, but if you can get anything for him, you do it and keep Willy for the time being.
News flash the Knicks are poorly run and dumb  
arniefez : 2/7/2018 5:52 pm : link
and they're unlucky. Quite a hat trick.
Horny sees Willy inpractice  
Vanzetti : 2/7/2018 8:15 pm : link
As does Perry

They obviously do not think highly of him. I think Iíll go with their judgment rather than the wishful thinking of a bunch of posters on B.B.I

There is also a discipline question. Guys are starting to act up. You have to quelch that shit ASAP.Willy is a back up. Heíll probably wonít of theNBA in five years.

Playing him quite possibly could reduce his value: Two seconds is a fine return, Move on. Itís minor move
RE: Horny sees Willy inpractice  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/7/2018 8:50 pm : link
In comment 13825909 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
As does Perry

They obviously do not think highly of him. I think Iíll go with their judgment rather than the wishful thinking of a bunch of posters on B.B.I



Hornacek hasn't done anything to show he's got a handle on this. The lineups he's played this year make no sense at times. The things he's said about players who perform well don't mesh with them disappearing from the rotation the very next game.
Picks high picks  
idiotsavant : 2/7/2018 8:59 pm : link
Boost thardaway then trade him. And I gotta admit coach looks like he's already thinking about his next stop.

Trade hardaway for a pick. Trade up. Keep the kids healthy and see you next year.

Kinda wish we traded hardway before his little slump/injury thingy.
Again..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/7/2018 9:00 pm : link
this isn't the issue:

Quote:
They obviously do not think highly of him. I think Iíll go with their judgment rather than the wishful thinking of a bunch of posters on B.B.I


It shouldn't matter what they think of him. What matters is the value in return for a player that was a first team all-rookie last year. It is bad business. It is even poorer business if they did it out of emotion.

That's not wishful thinking by posters, it is a logical plan. You sell an asset for as much as you can, and if you can't get value, you keep him until you can.

Willy  
31southst : 2/7/2018 9:39 pm : link
Donít love the trade but donít hate it either. A point Pelton made is if KP is a center long term, particularly if heís even a bit less mobile post injury, then it puts a ceiling on Willyís roll here. The goal with the trade is to get a player as good as WH at a non-C position.
Vanzetti,  
Keith : 2/7/2018 9:45 pm : link
Besides the value aspect of it, you are acting like:

A. Coaches and/or GMís are 100% correct in their personnel decisions. Theyíre not, more specifically, Hornacek has proven that to be untrue. Not sure Iíd hang my hat on PT decisions that he makes.

B. We donít have a whole season of WH against NBA teams in game action to refer back to. Iíd put a little more value in that rather than practice. In fact, every other team looks at that when judging his value. Last year he showed a lot of promise and if we tried to trade him last off-season, Iíd bet we could have gotten more than what we just got. We got nothing because heís been glued to the bench.
All I care about is getting deals done  
nygiants16 : 2/7/2018 9:50 pm : link
For Lee and oquinn tomorrow, no reason they should be on this team past thursday..

Also no reason for jack to start let Frank and burke man the position with jack being a vet leader to them...

If Lee is still here he should not be starting...

I'd like to see kornwt and hicks get some minutes and see what we got...

Also Xavier rathan Mayes should be brought up, been dominating since burke was brought up
For Those Liking The 2nd Round Picks Return  
TheVette : 2/8/2018 12:17 am : link
How about these recent "gem" 2nd round picks the Knicks made in the last few years - Louis Labeyrie, Thanasis Antetokounmpo, Ognjen Jaramaz. Anyone getting hot and bothered over these guys? Are they real people? Do they even exist?

I know teams like stash players in Europe, but these guys are stash-trash
RE: Picks high picks  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/8/2018 8:03 am : link
In comment 13825942 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
Boost thardaway then trade him. And I gotta admit coach looks like he's already thinking about his next stop.

Trade hardaway for a pick. Trade up. Keep the kids healthy and see you next year.

Kinda wish we traded hardway before his little slump/injury thingy.

He wasn't eligible to be traded until December 15th. His "little slump/injury thingy" started before that. You should stick to not knowing what you're talking about on football threads instead of spreading it to other topics.
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