signal a massive rebuild? If we traded Kanter or Lee, I could see that, but we just traded a 2nd year player who had a good rookie season for future assets. This signals incompetence, that's what it signals.
instead of trading away a player that has no future with this team(Oquinn and/or Kanter) and creating minutes for a 2nd year cost controlled player, we gave away said 2nd year player for nothing. IN what world is that logical?
Eh
ajr2456 : 11:36 am : link : reply
I think Willy is highly overrated by Knicks fans so this return might actually be good.
When it all pans out, the return is likely to be close to zero. O'Bryant isn't even a good benchwarmer and even getting a serviceable reserve in the 2nd round is rare.
Even if you don't think Willy is that good.....even if you think he's not part of the future....this is an hideously bad deal. They gave him away for effectively nothing. Hell, if nothing else, play him the rest of the season and let him build some value, then trade him in the offseason.
hours ago a whole bunch of playing time just opened up in the frontcourt. Why not give Wily big minutes to try and increase his value? I'm not saying he's untouchable, but he's a guy you package with other assets and try to get a star. You don't just give away young talent. And that's exactly what this is - a giveaway. Even smart teams can go years without finding something decent in the second round. The Knicks manage to do this - and they deal him off for no good reason. How other times has a productive second rounder (first team all rookie) been traded for 2nd rounders in his second season while still on a great contract?
What a fucking dumpster fire Thought Perry would bring a new perspective...wishful fucking thinking 23 yr old 1st team rookie team last year,great contract and they get 2 future 2's not until '20,'21 & the immortal Johnny O'Bryant who now joins his 4th team!
In the long history of Knicks ineptitude, this is merely a drop in the bucket, but I think this is a straw breaking the camel's back moment. The team is terrible. The one bright spot just tore his knee up. The new GM has just proven to be every bit as incompetent as the clowns who preceded him. I derive nothing but misery from following the Knicks. Why bother? For the foreseeable future, I'm just watching college ball.
Frank Isola
Verified account
@FisolaNYDN
So with two second round picks the goal is to draft someone who the Knicks hope is as good as the former second round pick they just traded, Willy Hernangomez. Got it.
Dont understand why We cannot hire a competent GM. Why are the Knicks basketball fans more knowledgeable than the front office. I am not joking either and I dont mean this arrogantly if they let big blue collectively manage the Knicks where majority vote won on trades and draft picks. The Knicks would be in much better shape.
who can't defend, even if he was getting playing time.
Those second round picks will likely be high and hold value, especially with the way the G League is set up now.
By the time this team is ready to compete, they would have had to pay Willy. It's basically just resetting the clock on a rotational player. second round - ( New Window )
The only way it makes sense is if the entire braintrust was stuck in a remote area of China with no WiFi and still don't know what happened to KP. They literally sapped any value out of Willy the first 3 months of the season, then traded him when they could've used the player or before they rebuilt his value.
Guy makes no money and was all rookie last year. Has he already reached his ceiling?? We just traded him for a 2nd round pick 2 years from now and a 2nd rounder 3 years from now. You cannot justify it.
I honestly dont think Dolan was involved in a trade receiving two second rounders years from now. This minor deal is done by his basketball people who are morons!
Are you really trying to justify this trade????
Keith : 11:55 am : link : reply
Guy makes no money and was all rookie last year. Has he already reached his ceiling?? We just traded him for a 2nd round pick 2 years from now and a 2nd rounder 3 years from now. You cannot justify it.
there is no justification for this trade. None. They took an asset that had developed and traded him for less than market value with a return very unlikely to amount to anything tangible.
How can any posters even rationalize the decision? It is simply put a horrible move.
its the message that he's sending to these guys. James Dolan is the decision maker. Maybe he's not the one calling CHarlotte to see if they want to take this young cost controlled player off our hands, but there is no doubt that the common denominator is Dolan. THis isn't new to Mills. Sh*t like this has been happening for 20 years!
Are you really trying to justify this trade????
Keith : 11:55 am : link : reply
Guy makes no money and was all rookie last year. Has he already reached his ceiling?? We just traded him for a 2nd round pick 2 years from now and a 2nd rounder 3 years from now. You cannot justify it.
there is no justification for this trade. None. They took an asset that had developed and traded him for less than market value with a return very unlikely to amount to anything tangible.
How can any posters even rationalize the decision? It is simply put a horrible move.
Except he wasn't developing. He's a slow, plodding 5 who doesn't play any defense and doesn't offer any position versatility. Plus eventually KP is playing his position full time.
I think it's telling one of the few teams that wanted Willy also has a glut of centers.
It's not even worth discussing. He's gotten 0 minutes this year, how is he supposed to develop? How would you even know if he's developing? Theres a reason you are on an island on this one.
Nothing about it makes any sense With KP down,should have opened up time for Willy Hornacek had a part in this,which is even more stupid since he's worthless as much as Mills & Perry.The Moe,Larry & Curly of the NBA!
but for this slop? Why not just hang onto him? Maybe he averages 15ppg down the stretch of a lost season and you can deal him on draft night for something marginally better. Willy and Noah should be on the low end of the priority list right now, yet it seems the Knicks have placed them at the top.
that's not developing(which isn't necessarily true), why wouldn't you open up minutes by trading Oquinn and see if Willy can boost his value. He makes no money and he's cost controlled. Maybe you can get a late first in the offseason. If not, I'm sure there are plenty of teams willing to take him off our hands for future 2nds.
Except he wasn't developing. He's a slow, plodding 5 who doesn't play any defense and doesn't offer any position versatility.
It is like you are trying to be contrary for the fuck of it.
He's a rare guy in the NBA - a 2nd rounder with potential. For his promise, he was glued to the bench - so any comments on his development isn't based on his play - it is assuming having him on the bench was the right move. Basically, we took a guy who flashed enough to be a first-team Rookie and got a journeyman and two useless picks in return.
even if you don't think he was developing, what he showed last year warranted more in return. Basically, any of us posting here are worth 2 second round picks, That's how useless they tuen out to be. The guy chosen is as likely to go play in Turkey than he is to see the floor as a Knick.
Now you see why Charlotte wanted to engage the Knicks
Willy could not get off the bench on a crap team and had demanded a trade. Two number two picks is a very good return
Some people vastly overrate young players and then get disappointed when the return matches market value rather than their overinflated value
The Knicks traded their own 2019 2nd round pick for Scott Perry. Would you rather that pick or the 2 picks from Hornets in 2020/2021?
Not to mention they Knicks already traded 2020 and 2021 picks to draft Willy originally. This is essentially a dump/ neutral move. There was no reason to make this trade.
Willy could not get off the bench on a crap team and had demanded a trade. Two number two picks is a very good return
Some people vastly overrate young players and then get disappointed when the return matches market value rather than their overinflated value
The Knicks traded their own 2019 2nd round pick for Scott Perry. Would you rather that pick or the 2 picks from Hornets in 2020/2021?
Not to mention they Knicks already traded 2020 and 2021 picks to draft Willy originally. This is essentially a dump/ neutral move. There was no reason to make this trade.
Willy could not get off the bench on a crap team and had demanded a trade. Two number two picks is a very good return
Some people vastly overrate young players and then get disappointed when the return matches market value rather than their overinflated value
That may be true. But you don't trade him then. Develop him and get Z better return later. He has that potential.
You have to keep discipline on your team. Willy is a whiner and makes no effort on D. You gotta ship guys like that out. Let him hang out with The fat man in Charlotte where they roll up the sidewalks at 9 pm and maybe hell realize his gig at MSG wasnt so bad
I don't understand it. How anyone can defend this move is mind boggling. It's not something that will ruin the franchise, but that doesn't mean it makes sense. Even if you feel like he's flawed, you are better off giving him minutes and hope he raises his value in the offseason. His value can't get lower than a salary dump!
It's not like we can't find minutes with 2 centers on the roster that have no future in NY and our star big going down for the season. Mind boggling.
Except he wasn't developing. He's a slow, plodding 5 who doesn't play any defense and doesn't offer any position versatility.
It is like you are trying to be contrary for the fuck of it.
He's a rare guy in the NBA - a 2nd rounder with potential. For his promise, he was glued to the bench - so any comments on his development isn't based on his play - it is assuming having him on the bench was the right move. Basically, we took a guy who flashed enough to be a first-team Rookie and got a journeyman and two useless picks in return.
even if you don't think he was developing, what he showed last year warranted more in return. Basically, any of us posting here are worth 2 second round picks, That's how useless they tuen out to be. The guy chosen is as likely to go play in Turkey than he is to see the floor as a Knick.
You're being blinded by some double doubles on a lottery team last year. He's not a good basketball player, and hasn't improved on defense to warrant even getting on the court. His ceiling was very low.
The whole approach to Willy was ass backwards, but the return isn't the disaster it's being made out to be.
I don't understand it. How anyone can defend this move is mind boggling. It's not something that will ruin the franchise, but that doesn't mean it makes sense. Even if you feel like he's flawed, you are better off giving him minutes and hope he raises his value in the offseason. His value can't get lower than a salary dump!
It's not like we can't find minutes with 2 centers on the roster that have no future in NY and our star big going down for the season. Mind boggling.
His value drops if he doesn't improve, because in the offseason he's one year closer to free agency.
as a knick fan can be but this trade is dumb as hell. If this is market value, and it might be, then just keep him for now. Let him play 20 minutes a game and see if he can build on some of what we saw last year. Worst comes to worst he falls flat on his face and sucks it up for 2 months and you cant trade him. Oh well, we dont get future 2nd rounders. But maybe he plays well enough that his value improves. Unless they are using these picks in another deal it makes zero sense. And the problem is if they are using these picks its going to be something dumb like Payton.
Pretty disappointed in Perry. Thought he was going to be a change, but this deal is just not good
says Knicks executives were turned off that him and KP would talk in Spanish...
might be a troll, but you never know with him.
Fire his favorite assistant coach. Dump his best friend for peanuts hours after a devastating injury. Whats next? Make him pay for his surgery? Ban his brothers from MSG?
They've been down on Willy all season. Teams get down on guys for reasons we fans have no idea about. Sometimes those reasons are good -- they know a guy is drinking, or doing drugs, or some other thing.
But sometimes the things they "know" are bullshit.
aren't KP and WHG close, as in really close, Euro connection and all? How will this play with his resolve (and it will take that) to stay at MSG?
second, even tho the 2nd rounders are no '18 and thus sure to be at the end of the draft, '20 and '21 are a LOONNGG way off: in finance, time is money, those two picks are devalued by virtue of bing two and three years out
This was the best deal we were gonna get for WHG. Face it. Yeah, you could keep him I guess. But he wasnt playing. And when he did, he didnt look good.
Landry Fields and Shump were untouchable too after their first year with the Knicks. How did they turn out? We are overrating WHG just a tad. Time will tell.
say for argument purposes that Willy this year is the same player he was last year. That's STILL warrants a good amount of playing time out there...especially now that KP went down.
I'm not arguing against trading the guy. Just don't see the point if you are getting garbage in return.
say for argument purposes that Willy this year is the same player he was last year. That's STILL warrants a good amount of playing time out there...especially now that KP went down.
I'm not arguing against trading the guy. Just don't see the point if you are getting garbage in return.
KP getting hurt doesn't open up playing time for Hernangomez, unless you are playing him at the 4 and further diminishing his value.
"Given Porzingiss likely recovery time, next season is probably shot as well, putting Knicks fans in the familiar position of moaning about the present and looking forward to the future. Not that all hope is lost; as they say when a superstars injury ruins two separate years, Theres always the season after next." Carmelo Anthony reacts to Kristaps Porzingis ACL injury - ( New Window )
I think the frustration shared here by Knick fans are the following when it comes to this trade:
1) They got zero value
2) They traded him at the lowest value he has had, basically they devalued him by not playing
3) Once KP gets hurt, let him play and rebuild the value
It is quite possible Willie wanted out and was not swayed by KP's injury. So to satisfy Willie and his best friend, KP, the Knicks decided to trade him.
aren't KP and WHG close, as in really close, Euro connection and all? How will this play with his resolve (and it will take that) to stay at MSG?
second, even tho the 2nd rounders are no '18 and thus sure to be at the end of the draft, '20 and '21 are a LOONNGG way off: in finance, time is money, those two picks are devalued by virtue of bing two and three years out
This^ . They couldn't even get a 2018 2nd or 2019? The Kings got a 2019 2nd for their assistant GM. The Knicks couldn't get the same for an all rookie center locked in for the vet min until 2020?
aren't KP and WHG close, as in really close, Euro connection and all? How will this play with his resolve (and it will take that) to stay at MSG?
second, even tho the 2nd rounders are no '18 and thus sure to be at the end of the draft, '20 and '21 are a LOONNGG way off: in finance, time is money, those two picks are devalued by virtue of bing two and three years out
This^ . They couldn't even get a 2018 2nd or 2019? The Kings got a 2019 2nd for their assistant GM. The Knicks couldn't get the same for an all rookie center locked in for the vet min until 2020?
Charlotte doesn't own their own 2018 and 2019 picks, the 2020 and 2021 ones will turn out to be higher picks.
"Reshaping the Knicks as a championship contender will be a step-by-step process, and along the way, the plan will demand patience, as our young core of Kristaps Porzingis, Tim Hardaway Jr., Willy Hernangmez, Frank Ntilikina and Ron Baker mature."
Porzingis - Torn ACL
Ntlikina - Jury is out
Hardaway Jr - The next untradeable contract
Willy - Traded him for speaking spanish with KP
Baker - Leaving team to become hair model
They got two essentially worthless picks and a guy who probably will be playing in China in another year. There's no way to describe that as "a good return".
It's not 1994 anymore. Recoveries for ACL's are like 6-9 months now depending on how the person heals. Id guess that they will be careful with KP which would put him around 9 months. KP should be back(assuming no setbacks) at the end of 2018.
RE: again, even if you don't think that much of Willy
They got two essentially worthless picks and a guy who probably will be playing in China in another year. There's no way to describe that as "a good return".
It is for a guy who is likely back in Spain in a couple of years.
Willy had to go because he asked for a trade. The problem
was the return and letting Horna-fucking-cek alienate Willy in the first place. Just watch, Mills and Perry will assemble a veteran-laden team and we will be in 35-win, 8th-seed hell for the next decade.
Assuming more trades follow like Lee and Oquinn I'm okay with this
Willy can average 15/10 and we could have gotten more. But those 2 second round picks might come in handy and in "crunch time" when the Knicks are back to hopefully highly competitive basketball for atleast a 5 year window from 2020-2025
It's not 1994 anymore. Recoveries for ACL's are like 6-9 months now depending on how the person heals. Id guess that they will be careful with KP which would put him around 9 months. KP should be back(assuming no setbacks) at the end of 2018.
The nine to twenty months recovery time, for an NBA player, is based on statistics over the last 5 years, in the association.
this moves fits with what the Knicks have been saying all year. They don't want to tank. They don't want to dump veteran players. I believe the quote from yesterdays game was that Mills said something like: he wants to make moves that makes sense both short term and long term.
Assuming that the above is true, whether you agree with it or not, their logic holds true. They traded a player that they seeming don't value as much as the fan base, for a young player and two picks to try to recoup what they lost.
Short term, they gain a player who can back up Beasley. They did not have anybody else that they seemed to like at that position on the roster.
Long term, they hope that one of the three players they get pans out to be better than WH.
Again, I personally have no idea whether or not this is smart, but to me it seems like if people listened to what the Knicks have been saying, this shouldn't be a surprise.
Charlotte doesn't own their own 2018 and 2019 picks, the 2020 and 2021 ones will turn out to be higher picks.
Higher, yes, but the point that you seem to be ignoring is that NYK don't realize the "benefit" of this windfall until 2.5 years and 3.5 years out, an eternity while you're waiting for some sliver of hope from this godforsaken organization.
you need to understand the wording that he used. He's not saying that the average return is 9-20 months. Hypotheticall, if there were 2 guys that tore their ACL and 1 came back in 9 months and 1 in 20 months, the returns were between 9-20 months. I've torn both my ACL's. I'm not comparing my injuries to a pro athlete, but I know ACL tears and I know recoveries. For him to come back in 20 months, there would have to be significant setbacks and I'd bet that he will never be the same. Assuming no setbacks, it's not gonna be longer than 9 months'ish.
there won't be long term effects either. Maybe they are ultra conservative with his return and hold him out 12 months because we are tanking next year too, but he will make a 100% recovery. ACL's aren't devastating anymore. Meniscus injuries are worse.
I don't remember seeing O'Bryant when we played Charlotte.
With injury to kp Knicks will focus on their youth getting more playing time and are aggressively looking at trades to get youth and draft picks..
Lee and oquinn look to be the 2 main guys about to be traded
Saw that post. Willy at 23 would have been a young guy to play.O'Bryant is now on his 5th(4 including NYK that he played with) team. I just keep shaking my head. Hornacek is behind this in some way & he should have been the one to go!
In the long history of Knicks ineptitude, this is merely a drop in the bucket, but I think this is a straw breaking the camel's back moment. The team is terrible. The one bright spot just tore his knee up. The new GM has just proven to be every bit as incompetent as the clowns who preceded him. I derive nothing but misery from following the Knicks. Why bother? For the foreseeable future, I'm just watching college ball.
I feel the same way. This season, which was already spiraling down the drain, was finished with KP's knee. But, that also killed next season too. As soon as KP went down, I thought at least now Willy gets some play. Instead, we trade him for nothing, when he costs us nothing.
The Knicks of this century make the lack of a championship in the 90s that much more painful. The last time they won I was a baby, so I effectively have never seen a Knicks championship. Moves like this make me wonder if I ever will.
Glad it only took the star player's knee exploding
Hernangomezs skill set, though, is as an old-school, low-post center and didnt develop a long-range shot. Hes been out of the rotation all season and his agent recently encouraged the Knicks to shop him if his situation isnt going to change.
I dont dislike him, but I also dont think anyone is giving up a first for him at the deadline, one NBA scout told The Post about Hernangomez. I thought theyd wait and set their sights higher with getting a late first on draft night, depending on who is left. Hes a decent backup center, but its a league that is now transitioning away from bigs who dont shoot 3s. And I wouldnt go so far as to say he can score a lot. Hernangomez has the ability to score against backups. But hes not a guy you have to worry about double teaming or anything. If he were that good, hed be playing for the Knicks.
I know you are trying to use that as confirmation that this was a good move, but it says it right there. Why wouldn't you wait to move him to the offseason if all you could get was (2)2nds 3 years from now? There was no benefit to moving him now, none at all. They are much better off moving Oquinn, getting hernangomez minutes and seeing if he could increase his value. He certainly couldn't go lower.
Typical Knicks move - why not start playing him now as the season is lost, given him a chance to build back his value, and then move him in the off-season around the draft when you have a more valued asset. Mind-boggling how perpetually stupid this team is?
And who cares about 2nd round picks? Dotson is a 2nd round pick - he's not lighting it up
And how about these "gem" 2nd round picks the Knics made in the last few years - Louis Labeyrie, Thanasis Antetokounmpo, Ognjen Jaramaz. Anyone getting hot and bothered over these guys? The NBA is not the NFL - 2nd round picks in the NBA are largely useless
I know you are trying to use that as confirmation that this was a good move, but it says it right there. Why wouldn't you wait to move him to the offseason if all you could get was (2)2nds 3 years from now? There was no benefit to moving him now, none at all. They are much better off moving Oquinn, getting hernangomez minutes and seeing if he could increase his value. He certainly couldn't go lower.
It really is weird, I don't think Perry is stupid, even last night Knicks are down 20 and Willy doesn't get in until 1 minute left? Wtf?
I know you are trying to use that as confirmation that this was a good move, but it says it right there. Why wouldn't you wait to move him to the offseason if all you could get was (2)2nds 3 years from now? There was no benefit to moving him now, none at all. They are much better off moving Oquinn, getting hernangomez minutes and seeing if he could increase his value. He certainly couldn't go lower.
Because his value gets lower the closer he gets to RFA.
his value cannot get lower than what we just got from Charlotte. We got future 2nds for 3 years from now. You are honestly telling me that we couldn't get that in the offseason? Give him minutes in the second half, theres a better chance that his value goes up.
Is Kanter really part of the future at that salary? For all the love people - he's worked his way out of 4th quarter minutes, so what value is he. $$$ like that can be used on truly "star" players.
As for Kanter vs. Willy - is Kanter REALLY almost 13 times the value vs. their contracts? Knicks had a gem after last season - a young player, making zero $$$, who showed talent (All-Rookie team as a 2nd round pick).
Just pissed away an asset for nothing - a guy they just waived and 2 2nd round picks which are useless. Recent 2nd round Knicks picks include Labeyrie, Jaramaz, the Greek's freaks's brother - not exactly valuable assets
his value cannot get lower than what we just got from Charlotte. We got future 2nds for 3 years from now. You are honestly telling me that we couldn't get that in the offseason? Give him minutes in the second half, theres a better chance that his value goes up.
You could have one second round pick. His value wasn't going up with more playing time. Teams saw him play last year, they saw him play in limited minutes this year. They know his limitations and his strengths.
It's more likely Willy ends up back in Spain in two years than being more than a third center on a team.
Everyone is well aware of his flaws if you watch him play. However he still has positives- why do you think he got 1st team all rookie? He's not as good as Kanter, but is he 16 million dollars worse? Because he's locked in at 1.8 mill until 2020. Even if hes your 4th or 5th big, thats insane value- one of the only smart things Jackson did.
So what was the point of this? Hope you hit gold and one of those 2nds becomes a good player 6 years from now?
Terrible trade. You need to maximize your assets and the Knicks continue to do the opposite.
He's not going back to Spain. He can absolutely play in the NBA.
his value cannot get lower than what we just got from Charlotte. We got future 2nds for 3 years from now. You are honestly telling me that we couldn't get that in the offseason? Give him minutes in the second half, theres a better chance that his value goes up.
You could have one second round pick. His value wasn't going up with more playing time. Teams saw him play last year, they saw him play in limited minutes this year. They know his limitations and his strengths.
It's more likely Willy ends up back in Spain in two years than being more than a third center on a team.
It's insane to suggest that a 2nd year player can't improve. He was a rookie last year. I'm trying to understand your angle and I just don't get it. Lets assume you are right and the risk was losing a 2nd round pick, they are better off taking the risk that he improves his value and they lose 1 of those 2nd rounders.
Having said all that, it's pointless to discuss further if you think he's maxed out on his ability after his successful rookie season.
He averages a double-double over 36 minutes and that's with barely any NBA experience. Not sure why anyone would frame it like he's some scrub.
Except he's not good enough to get on the court for 36 minutes a game.
Also those second round picks could end up having more trade value than Willy, or even sold for cash which can be used to make salary match in a trade.
Windhorst on the Jump said he spoke to a GM last night about the Knicks selling off assets like Courtney Lee. GM said they can move them but won't be getting value back because of his contract. So much for that...
He averages a double-double over 36 minutes and that's with barely any NBA experience. Not sure why anyone would frame it like he's some scrub.
Except he's not good enough to get on the court for 36 minutes a game.
It's indicative of his ability. Which means positioning him as a fringe NBA player or someone who should go to Europe is nonsense. In the judgement of Hornacek he's not good enough, Hornacek also thinks Jack IS good enough. Let's consider that.
his value cannot get lower than what we just got from Charlotte. We got future 2nds for 3 years from now. You are honestly telling me that we couldn't get that in the offseason? Give him minutes in the second half, theres a better chance that his value goes up.
You could have one second round pick. His value wasn't going up with more playing time. Teams saw him play last year, they saw him play in limited minutes this year. They know his limitations and his strengths.
It's more likely Willy ends up back in Spain in two years than being more than a third center on a team.
It's insane to suggest that a 2nd year player can't improve. He was a rookie last year. I'm trying to understand your angle and I just don't get it. Lets assume you are right and the risk was losing a 2nd round pick, they are better off taking the risk that he improves his value and they lose 1 of those 2nd rounders.
Having said all that, it's pointless to discuss further if you think he's maxed out on his ability after his successful rookie season.
His ceiling isn't much higher than his current game. He's not athletic enough to suddenly become a very good defender, or play the four. He lacks basketball IQ, turns the ball over and doesn't move well vertically. He's never going to be a guy who stretches the floor. He's at best an average basketball player who doesn't have minutes to play once KP moves to the five.
Jordan SchultzVerified account
@Schultz_Report
Following Following @Schultz_Report
More Jordan Schultz Retweeted Jordan Schultz
Donovan Mitchell is not a good NBA player ... he is a GREAT ONE. Averages 19, higher PER than Klay Thompson, Draymond, Middleton, Tatum. Since December, @spidadmitchell is shooting 71% in restricted area! Context: Trails one non-big in the NBA. His name? LeBron James! @utahjazz
Jordan SchultzVerified account
@Schultz_Report
Following Following @Schultz_Report
More Jordan Schultz Retweeted Jordan Schultz
Donovan Mitchell is not a good NBA player ... he is a GREAT ONE. Averages 19, higher PER than Klay Thompson, Draymond, Middleton, Tatum. Since December, @spidadmitchell is shooting 71% in restricted area! Context: Trails one non-big in the NBA. His name? LeBron James! @utahjazz
I'll play revisionist. Imagine hiring Thibs 2 years ago, drafting Mitchell, and not having the contracts of Noah/ Lee/ Baker/ Thomas/ Hardaway.
You'd be left with 2 potential superstars under 23 years old with about 70 million in cap space going into an offseason with Lebron and Paul George very attainable. One can dream...
RE: Luke Kornet and Isaiah Hicks are not NBA players
I kinda like those guys. And, it seems clear that Scott Perry woke up today and decided to make room for them. We'll see if that was a good move or not.
I've watched some westchester games and Kornet has some serious range.
Jordan SchultzVerified account
@Schultz_Report
Following Following @Schultz_Report
More Jordan Schultz Retweeted Jordan Schultz
Donovan Mitchell is not a good NBA player ... he is a GREAT ONE. Averages 19, higher PER than Klay Thompson, Draymond, Middleton, Tatum. Since December, @spidadmitchell is shooting 71% in restricted area! Context: Trails one non-big in the NBA. His name? LeBron James! @utahjazz
On this site, we all liked Mitchell, but the clamoring was about Denis Smith Jr and Malik Monk.
then they went ahead and cut the guy they traded for. This makes it much harder to understand their vision. I thought I had a sense of what they were trying to do, I didn't really agree with it, but I thought I understood it. Now it just seems like they are winging it... I hope the next 24hrs proves different.
Windhorst on the Jump said he spoke to a GM last night about the Knicks selling off assets like Courtney Lee. GM said they can move them but won't be getting value back because of his contract. So much for that...
Lee has one of the better contracts in the nba windhorst is a moron
Metroman those stats are not even needed, you look at Mitchell and you see current and future superstar, the numbers are just gravy on the actual player. He is an absolute stud on every level. But according to many on this site, Frank will get more athletic and develop a better handle as he gets older and can still be better than Mitchell. As I said before the draft passing on D Mitchell would be a huge setback for this franchise, I try not to boast too much about my Mitchell call, but Metroman keeps feeding me. I remember people calling me some idiot who just watched some youtube dunks on Mitchell and I had no idea what i was talking about. I watched many of Mitchell's games and I watched Frank play in only a handful of games, but Mitchell had the it factor when you watched him. Frank does not. Knicks are already talking about moving him to off guard, because why? He doesnt have the quickness or handle to be a NBA PG. One way to fix this, which I have been saying for quite some time. Is to have him work on his post up game ala Mark Jackson and he can actually use his size and length to run point guard sets out of the post. Lets see if the Knicks will find a coach competent enough to figure this out. When KP is healthy have him standing face up between foul line and 3 point line and Frank should be able to post and score or kick to KP for open jumpers or pump fake drive and pull ups or dunks. Pretty simple concept.
I admittedly wasn't impressed with Mitchell pre-draft
Maybe it's because the majority of the games I watched him play were Louisville-UVA games, and we have owned that team for years, but I never saw a guy who stood out as NBA star material.
Windhorst on the Jump said he spoke to a GM last night about the Knicks selling off assets like Courtney Lee. GM said they can move them but won't be getting value back because of his contract. So much for that...
Lee has one of the better contracts in the nba windhorst is a moron
While I agree Windhorst is a moron, Lee does not have one of the better contracts in the league. 12.5 mill per for a player going to be 33 in October isn't ideal. Especially on this team.
Windhorst on the Jump said he spoke to a GM last night about the Knicks selling off assets like Courtney Lee. GM said they can move them but won't be getting value back because of his contract. So much for that...
Lee has one of the better contracts in the nba windhorst is a moron
Lee has one of the better contracts on the Knicks.
While not grossly overpaid like most Knick free agents signings over the years, Lee's deal is still a tight squeeze given market conditions. Lou Williams just signed an extension for less than the MLE.
improves our lottery position by one slot this year and next, I'd probably do it. With KP out, our next two draft selections are the only things I care about with this team.
We are going to all explode when the Knicks get a couple of 2nd rounders for Courtney Lee, but I don't see them getting much more for him.
The teams interested don't really have 1st rounders to deal.
Also, Rodney Hood will be more highly coveted.
Unlike the Willy deal - the Knicks would be saving $25M over the next 2 years if they trade Lee for 2nd rounders. The Knicks saved all of $2.8M in dealing Willy for 2nd rounders - big difference.
We are going to all explode when the Knicks get a couple of 2nd rounders for Courtney Lee, but I don't see them getting much more for him.
The teams interested don't really have 1st rounders to deal.
Also, Rodney Hood will be more highly coveted.
Unlike the Willy deal - the Knicks would be saving $25M over the next 2 years if they trade Lee for 2nd rounders. The Knicks saved all of $2.8M in dealing Willy for 2nd rounders - big difference.
They won't be able to trade Lee without taking salary back.
Lou Williams signs for 2/15 guaranteed with the third year unguaranteed...and Ron Baker got 2/10 guaranteed with a second year player option and the no-trade protection that comes with a 1+1 deal. It's absurd. Can't wait to see what crazy contracts we give out this summer...
is how it states that the Knicks will be actively seeking to get younger during this trading period. Yet, they just went and traded one of their young guys who made the All Rookie team a year ago...go figure.
is how it states that the Knicks will be actively seeking to get younger during this trading period. Yet, they just went and traded one of their young guys who made the All Rookie team a year ago...go figure.
Yeah, such a "Knicksy" thing to do. I guess it's possible there's zero trade market for O'Quinn, but if you can get anything for him, you do it and keep Willy for the time being.
They obviously do not think highly of him. I think Ill go with their judgment rather than the wishful thinking of a bunch of posters on B.B.I
There is also a discipline question. Guys are starting to act up. You have to quelch that shit ASAP.Willy is a back up. Hell probably wont of theNBA in five years.
Playing him quite possibly could reduce his value: Two seconds is a fine return, Move on. Its minor move
They obviously do not think highly of him. I think Ill go with their judgment rather than the wishful thinking of a bunch of posters on B.B.I
Hornacek hasn't done anything to show he's got a handle on this. The lineups he's played this year make no sense at times. The things he's said about players who perform well don't mesh with them disappearing from the rotation the very next game.
They obviously do not think highly of him. I think Ill go with their judgment rather than the wishful thinking of a bunch of posters on B.B.I
It shouldn't matter what they think of him. What matters is the value in return for a player that was a first team all-rookie last year. It is bad business. It is even poorer business if they did it out of emotion.
That's not wishful thinking by posters, it is a logical plan. You sell an asset for as much as you can, and if you can't get value, you keep him until you can.
Dont love the trade but dont hate it either. A point Pelton made is if KP is a center long term, particularly if hes even a bit less mobile post injury, then it puts a ceiling on Willys roll here. The goal with the trade is to get a player as good as WH at a non-C position.
Besides the value aspect of it, you are acting like:
A. Coaches and/or GMs are 100% correct in their personnel decisions. Theyre not, more specifically, Hornacek has proven that to be untrue. Not sure Id hang my hat on PT decisions that he makes.
B. We dont have a whole season of WH against NBA teams in game action to refer back to. Id put a little more value in that rather than practice. In fact, every other team looks at that when judging his value. Last year he showed a lot of promise and if we tried to trade him last off-season, Id bet we could have gotten more than what we just got. We got nothing because hes been glued to the bench.
How about these recent "gem" 2nd round picks the Knicks made in the last few years - Louis Labeyrie, Thanasis Antetokounmpo, Ognjen Jaramaz. Anyone getting hot and bothered over these guys? Are they real people? Do they even exist?
I know teams like stash players in Europe, but these guys are stash-trash
Boost thardaway then trade him. And I gotta admit coach looks like he's already thinking about his next stop.
Trade hardaway for a pick. Trade up. Keep the kids healthy and see you next year.
Kinda wish we traded hardway before his little slump/injury thingy.
He wasn't eligible to be traded until December 15th. His "little slump/injury thingy" started before that. You should stick to not knowing what you're talking about on football threads instead of spreading it to other topics.
You have to think this signals a massive rebuild.
Because its the Knicks. Ill wait till the return by so much for that youth movement....
Hasn't been said. The Hornets also have a ton of centers so I'm confused by this
They're going to get virtually nothing of value for him. I'm completely certain of that.
Yeah, it's almost like they were pissed at him for some reason so sent him somewhere he'll have the same depth chart problems as he has here.
They're going to get virtually nothing of value for him. I'm completely certain of that.
Also on locked up for the league min for another 2 years after this season. Trading him at his lowest value. You cant make this up with the Knicks.
Sounds about right.
Seriously, why should any of us bother with this franchise anymore????
Worse yet- if these are 2018 picks, they will be Cleveland's second rounder and Houston's second rounder- both end of the 2nd round picks...
I don't care how much you think we overrated WHG - this return sucks ass.
Well we won't find out since they stupidly refused to even give him a chance to be part of a rotation.
Deal off Lee, Kanter, Jack and Lance and I'll feel better.
Probably sending the 2nd round picks to Orlando for Payton
ajr2456 : 11:36 am : link : reply
I think Willy is highly overrated by Knicks fans so this return might actually be good.
When it all pans out, the return is likely to be close to zero. O'Bryant isn't even a good benchwarmer and even getting a serviceable reserve in the 2nd round is rare.
They're going to get virtually nothing of value for him. I'm completely certain of that.
This. The reign of error continues at MSG.And the Rangers would be there too if Sather didn't get a do over from the last lockout.
Quote:
it becomes part of another trade.
Probably sending the 2nd round picks to Orlando for Payton
Only then Perry would be absolved
6m6 minutes ago
More
What are the Knicks thinking?
Teams pray that second-round picks become first-team All-Rookie, as Willy did last season.
When that rare feat is accomplished, you don't trade that player for another second-round pick.
Verified account
@FisolaNYDN
So with two second round picks the goal is to draft someone who the Knicks hope is as good as the former second round pick they just traded, Willy Hernangomez. Got it.
Ultimately, they should have fired Hornacek and kept Willy. The deal makes no sense.
Those second round picks will likely be high and hold value, especially with the way the G League is set up now.
By the time this team is ready to compete, they would have had to pay Willy. It's basically just resetting the clock on a rotational player.
second round - ( New Window )
The only way it makes sense is if the entire braintrust was stuck in a remote area of China with no WiFi and still don't know what happened to KP. They literally sapped any value out of Willy the first 3 months of the season, then traded him when they could've used the player or before they rebuilt his value.
No, its not. It's James Dolan. Moves this mind boggling has been going on since Isiah was the GM. This isn't new to Mills.
Quote:
Mills. Fucking sucks
No, its not. It's James Dolan. Moves this mind boggling has been going on since Isiah was the GM. This isn't new to Mills.
Dolan sucks but I really doubt he had any involvement in this trade
Keith : 11:55 am : link : reply
Guy makes no money and was all rookie last year. Has he already reached his ceiling?? We just traded him for a 2nd round pick 2 years from now and a 2nd rounder 3 years from now. You cannot justify it.
there is no justification for this trade. None. They took an asset that had developed and traded him for less than market value with a return very unlikely to amount to anything tangible.
How can any posters even rationalize the decision? It is simply put a horrible move.
Quote:
Are you really trying to justify this trade????
Keith : 11:55 am : link : reply
Guy makes no money and was all rookie last year. Has he already reached his ceiling?? We just traded him for a 2nd round pick 2 years from now and a 2nd rounder 3 years from now. You cannot justify it.
there is no justification for this trade. None. They took an asset that had developed and traded him for less than market value with a return very unlikely to amount to anything tangible.
How can any posters even rationalize the decision? It is simply put a horrible move.
Except he wasn't developing. He's a slow, plodding 5 who doesn't play any defense and doesn't offer any position versatility. Plus eventually KP is playing his position full time.
I think it's telling one of the few teams that wanted Willy also has a glut of centers.
Dan, the picks are Charlotte's 2020 and 2021 second rounders. Not that it makes it any better, but still
Ron Baker
Bahahaaa 😂
Some people vastly overrate young players and then get disappointed when the return matches market value rather than their overinflated value
It is like you are trying to be contrary for the fuck of it.
He's a rare guy in the NBA - a 2nd rounder with potential. For his promise, he was glued to the bench - so any comments on his development isn't based on his play - it is assuming having him on the bench was the right move. Basically, we took a guy who flashed enough to be a first-team Rookie and got a journeyman and two useless picks in return.
even if you don't think he was developing, what he showed last year warranted more in return. Basically, any of us posting here are worth 2 second round picks, That's how useless they tuen out to be. The guy chosen is as likely to go play in Turkey than he is to see the floor as a Knick.
They thought they could get Frank Ntilikina for Cody Zeller and an Adam Morrison Jersey
Some people vastly overrate young players and then get disappointed when the return matches market value rather than their overinflated value
lol, i don't even know where to start with this one.
Some people vastly overrate young players and then get disappointed when the return matches market value rather than their overinflated value
That may be true. But you don't trade him then. Develop him and get Z better return later. He has that potential.
I hope so. You if you have any hope of trading him, he has to play.
Hes a Big who doesnt stretch the floor or play defense. We got a decent return. I dont love it, but I dont hate it. Seems fair.
Some people vastly overrate young players and then get disappointed when the return matches market value rather than their overinflated value
The Knicks traded their own 2019 2nd round pick for Scott Perry. Would you rather that pick or the 2 picks from Hornets in 2020/2021?
Not to mention they Knicks already traded 2020 and 2021 picks to draft Willy originally. This is essentially a dump/ neutral move. There was no reason to make this trade.
Quote:
Willy could not get off the bench on a crap team and had demanded a trade. Two number two picks is a very good return
Some people vastly overrate young players and then get disappointed when the return matches market value rather than their overinflated value
The Knicks traded their own 2019 2nd round pick for Scott Perry. Would you rather that pick or the 2 picks from Hornets in 2020/2021?
Not to mention they Knicks already traded 2020 and 2021 picks to draft Willy originally. This is essentially a dump/ neutral move. There was no reason to make this trade.
L.O.Freaking L. Persepective right there.
There are some posters that literally have such fucked up takes that they are always on the opposite side of logic.
Quote:
Willy could not get off the bench on a crap team and had demanded a trade. Two number two picks is a very good return
Some people vastly overrate young players and then get disappointed when the return matches market value rather than their overinflated value
That may be true. But you don't trade him then. Develop him and get Z better return later. He has that potential.
You have to keep discipline on your team. Willy is a whiner and makes no effort on D. You gotta ship guys like that out. Let him hang out with The fat man in Charlotte where they roll up the sidewalks at 9 pm and maybe hell realize his gig at MSG wasnt so bad
It's not like we can't find minutes with 2 centers on the roster that have no future in NY and our star big going down for the season. Mind boggling.
Quote:
Willy could not get off the bench on a crap team and had demanded a trade. Two number two picks is a very good return
Some people vastly overrate young players and then get disappointed when the return matches market value rather than their overinflated value
lol, i don't even know where to start with this one.
Are you always this much of douche?
And tell us again about KP comng back in November, jackass.
Quote:
Except he wasn't developing. He's a slow, plodding 5 who doesn't play any defense and doesn't offer any position versatility.
It is like you are trying to be contrary for the fuck of it.
He's a rare guy in the NBA - a 2nd rounder with potential. For his promise, he was glued to the bench - so any comments on his development isn't based on his play - it is assuming having him on the bench was the right move. Basically, we took a guy who flashed enough to be a first-team Rookie and got a journeyman and two useless picks in return.
even if you don't think he was developing, what he showed last year warranted more in return. Basically, any of us posting here are worth 2 second round picks, That's how useless they tuen out to be. The guy chosen is as likely to go play in Turkey than he is to see the floor as a Knick.
You're being blinded by some double doubles on a lottery team last year. He's not a good basketball player, and hasn't improved on defense to warrant even getting on the court. His ceiling was very low.
The whole approach to Willy was ass backwards, but the return isn't the disaster it's being made out to be.
It's not like we can't find minutes with 2 centers on the roster that have no future in NY and our star big going down for the season. Mind boggling.
His value drops if he doesn't improve, because in the offseason he's one year closer to free agency.
sell high, buy low, not the opposite.
might be a troll, but you never know with him.
Pretty disappointed in Perry. Thought he was going to be a change, but this deal is just not good
might be a troll, but you never know with him.
Fire his favorite assistant coach. Dump his best friend for peanuts hours after a devastating injury. Whats next? Make him pay for his surgery? Ban his brothers from MSG?
But sometimes the things they "know" are bullshit.
second, even tho the 2nd rounders are no '18 and thus sure to be at the end of the draft, '20 and '21 are a LOONNGG way off: in finance, time is money, those two picks are devalued by virtue of bing two and three years out
I've been reading a year.
This was the best deal we were gonna get for WHG. Face it. Yeah, you could keep him I guess. But he wasnt playing. And when he did, he didnt look good.
Landry Fields and Shump were untouchable too after their first year with the Knicks. How did they turn out? We are overrating WHG just a tad. Time will tell.
I'm not arguing against trading the guy. Just don't see the point if you are getting garbage in return.
I'm not arguing against trading the guy. Just don't see the point if you are getting garbage in return.
KP getting hurt doesn't open up playing time for Hernangomez, unless you are playing him at the 4 and further diminishing his value.
"Given Porzingiss likely recovery time, next season is probably shot as well, putting Knicks fans in the familiar position of moaning about the present and looking forward to the future. Not that all hope is lost; as they say when a superstars injury ruins two separate years, Theres always the season after next."
Carmelo Anthony reacts to Kristaps Porzingis ACL injury - ( New Window )
1) They got zero value
2) They traded him at the lowest value he has had, basically they devalued him by not playing
3) Once KP gets hurt, let him play and rebuild the value
AKA, there must be a pony in here somewhere.
second, even tho the 2nd rounders are no '18 and thus sure to be at the end of the draft, '20 and '21 are a LOONNGG way off: in finance, time is money, those two picks are devalued by virtue of bing two and three years out
This^ . They couldn't even get a 2018 2nd or 2019? The Kings got a 2019 2nd for their assistant GM. The Knicks couldn't get the same for an all rookie center locked in for the vet min until 2020?
Quote:
aren't KP and WHG close, as in really close, Euro connection and all? How will this play with his resolve (and it will take that) to stay at MSG?
second, even tho the 2nd rounders are no '18 and thus sure to be at the end of the draft, '20 and '21 are a LOONNGG way off: in finance, time is money, those two picks are devalued by virtue of bing two and three years out
This^ . They couldn't even get a 2018 2nd or 2019? The Kings got a 2019 2nd for their assistant GM. The Knicks couldn't get the same for an all rookie center locked in for the vet min until 2020?
Charlotte doesn't own their own 2018 and 2019 picks, the 2020 and 2021 ones will turn out to be higher picks.
So much for that patience....
Ntlikina - Jury is out
Hardaway Jr - The next untradeable contract
Willy - Traded him for speaking spanish with KP
Baker - Leaving team to become hair model
It is for a guy who is likely back in Spain in a couple of years.
Assuming more trades follow like Lee and Oquinn I'm okay with this
Willy can average 15/10 and we could have gotten more. But those 2 second round picks might come in handy and in "crunch time" when the Knicks are back to hopefully highly competitive basketball for atleast a 5 year window from 2020-2025
The nine to twenty months recovery time, for an NBA player, is based on statistics over the last 5 years, in the association.
Assuming that the above is true, whether you agree with it or not, their logic holds true. They traded a player that they seeming don't value as much as the fan base, for a young player and two picks to try to recoup what they lost.
Short term, they gain a player who can back up Beasley. They did not have anybody else that they seemed to like at that position on the roster.
Long term, they hope that one of the three players they get pans out to be better than WH.
Again, I personally have no idea whether or not this is smart, but to me it seems like if people listened to what the Knicks have been saying, this shouldn't be a surprise.
Red, where are you?
Both aren't that good athletically and have poor lateral movement.
Quote:
How do Willy and Johnny compare athletically?
Both aren't that good athletically and have poor lateral movement.
Obryant has very good athleticism
Link - ( New Window )
Lee and oquinn look to be the 2 main guys about to be traded
Lee and oquinn look to be the 2 main guys about to be traded
Saw that post. Willy at 23 would have been a young guy to play.O'Bryant is now on his 5th(4 including NYK that he played with) team. I just keep shaking my head. Hornacek is behind this in some way & he should have been the one to go!
Lee and oquinn look to be the 2 main guys about to be traded
Theres a good young center in Charlotte. Should be able to get him for a 2nd, maybe 2 seconds. Willy Hernangomez.
The Knicks of this century make the lack of a championship in the 90s that much more painful. The last time they won I was a baby, so I effectively have never seen a Knicks championship. Moves like this make me wonder if I ever will.
I dont dislike him, but I also dont think anyone is giving up a first for him at the deadline, one NBA scout told The Post about Hernangomez. I thought theyd wait and set their sights higher with getting a late first on draft night, depending on who is left. Hes a decent backup center, but its a league that is now transitioning away from bigs who dont shoot 3s. And I wouldnt go so far as to say he can score a lot. Hernangomez has the ability to score against backups. But hes not a guy you have to worry about double teaming or anything. If he were that good, hed be playing for the Knicks.
Willy - ( New Window )
Guess another deal in the works
Sheer brilliance
Quote:
Knicks to waive Johnny O Bryant, was all about those premium picks.
Guess another deal in the works
Or they'd rather bring Kornet or Hicks
Quote:
In comment 13825557 Pete44 said:
Quote:
Knicks to waive Johnny O Bryant, was all about those premium picks.
Guess another deal in the works
Or they'd rather bring Kornet or Hicks
They don't need to waive someone to bring them up
And who cares about 2nd round picks? Dotson is a 2nd round pick - he's not lighting it up
And how about these "gem" 2nd round picks the Knics made in the last few years - Louis Labeyrie, Thanasis Antetokounmpo, Ognjen Jaramaz. Anyone getting hot and bothered over these guys? The NBA is not the NFL - 2nd round picks in the NBA are largely useless
It really is weird, I don't think Perry is stupid, even last night Knicks are down 20 and Willy doesn't get in until 1 minute left? Wtf?
Because his value gets lower the closer he gets to RFA.
As for Kanter vs. Willy - is Kanter REALLY almost 13 times the value vs. their contracts? Knicks had a gem after last season - a young player, making zero $$$, who showed talent (All-Rookie team as a 2nd round pick).
Just pissed away an asset for nothing - a guy they just waived and 2 2nd round picks which are useless. Recent 2nd round Knicks picks include Labeyrie, Jaramaz, the Greek's freaks's brother - not exactly valuable assets
You could have one second round pick. His value wasn't going up with more playing time. Teams saw him play last year, they saw him play in limited minutes this year. They know his limitations and his strengths.
It's more likely Willy ends up back in Spain in two years than being more than a third center on a team.
So what was the point of this? Hope you hit gold and one of those 2nds becomes a good player 6 years from now?
Terrible trade. You need to maximize your assets and the Knicks continue to do the opposite.
Quote:
his value cannot get lower than what we just got from Charlotte. We got future 2nds for 3 years from now. You are honestly telling me that we couldn't get that in the offseason? Give him minutes in the second half, theres a better chance that his value goes up.
You could have one second round pick. His value wasn't going up with more playing time. Teams saw him play last year, they saw him play in limited minutes this year. They know his limitations and his strengths.
It's more likely Willy ends up back in Spain in two years than being more than a third center on a team.
It's insane to suggest that a 2nd year player can't improve. He was a rookie last year. I'm trying to understand your angle and I just don't get it. Lets assume you are right and the risk was losing a 2nd round pick, they are better off taking the risk that he improves his value and they lose 1 of those 2nd rounders.
Having said all that, it's pointless to discuss further if you think he's maxed out on his ability after his successful rookie season.
Here, fixed it.....What a 24 years to be a Knicks fan.
Except he's not good enough to get on the court for 36 minutes a game.
Also those second round picks could end up having more trade value than Willy, or even sold for cash which can be used to make salary match in a trade.
Quote:
He averages a double-double over 36 minutes and that's with barely any NBA experience. Not sure why anyone would frame it like he's some scrub.
Except he's not good enough to get on the court for 36 minutes a game.
It's indicative of his ability. Which means positioning him as a fringe NBA player or someone who should go to Europe is nonsense. In the judgement of Hornacek he's not good enough, Hornacek also thinks Jack IS good enough. Let's consider that.
@Al_Iannazzone
The Knicks wanted the 2nd round picks. Perry said they didn't have picks in '20 and '21
yeah, because they traded them to get Wily! This whole move reeks of Mills caving to pressure from the agent.
Quote:
In comment 13825595 Keith said:
Quote:
his value cannot get lower than what we just got from Charlotte. We got future 2nds for 3 years from now. You are honestly telling me that we couldn't get that in the offseason? Give him minutes in the second half, theres a better chance that his value goes up.
You could have one second round pick. His value wasn't going up with more playing time. Teams saw him play last year, they saw him play in limited minutes this year. They know his limitations and his strengths.
It's more likely Willy ends up back in Spain in two years than being more than a third center on a team.
It's insane to suggest that a 2nd year player can't improve. He was a rookie last year. I'm trying to understand your angle and I just don't get it. Lets assume you are right and the risk was losing a 2nd round pick, they are better off taking the risk that he improves his value and they lose 1 of those 2nd rounders.
Having said all that, it's pointless to discuss further if you think he's maxed out on his ability after his successful rookie season.
His ceiling isn't much higher than his current game. He's not athletic enough to suddenly become a very good defender, or play the four. He lacks basketball IQ, turns the ball over and doesn't move well vertically. He's never going to be a guy who stretches the floor. He's at best an average basketball player who doesn't have minutes to play once KP moves to the five.
Insane to suggest hes maxed out his ability and pointless to discuss futher. Lets agree to disagree.
@Schultz_Report
Following Following @Schultz_Report
More Jordan Schultz Retweeted Jordan Schultz
Donovan Mitchell is not a good NBA player ... he is a GREAT ONE. Averages 19, higher PER than Klay Thompson, Draymond, Middleton, Tatum. Since December, @spidadmitchell is shooting 71% in restricted area! Context: Trails one non-big in the NBA. His name? LeBron James! @utahjazz
@Schultz_Report
Following Following @Schultz_Report
More Jordan Schultz Retweeted Jordan Schultz
Donovan Mitchell is not a good NBA player ... he is a GREAT ONE. Averages 19, higher PER than Klay Thompson, Draymond, Middleton, Tatum. Since December, @spidadmitchell is shooting 71% in restricted area! Context: Trails one non-big in the NBA. His name? LeBron James! @utahjazz
I'll play revisionist. Imagine hiring Thibs 2 years ago, drafting Mitchell, and not having the contracts of Noah/ Lee/ Baker/ Thomas/ Hardaway.
You'd be left with 2 potential superstars under 23 years old with about 70 million in cap space going into an offseason with Lebron and Paul George very attainable. One can dream...
I kinda like those guys. And, it seems clear that Scott Perry woke up today and decided to make room for them. We'll see if that was a good move or not.
I've watched some westchester games and Kornet has some serious range.
@Schultz_Report
Following Following @Schultz_Report
More Jordan Schultz Retweeted Jordan Schultz
Donovan Mitchell is not a good NBA player ... he is a GREAT ONE. Averages 19, higher PER than Klay Thompson, Draymond, Middleton, Tatum. Since December, @spidadmitchell is shooting 71% in restricted area! Context: Trails one non-big in the NBA. His name? LeBron James! @utahjazz
On this site, we all liked Mitchell, but the clamoring was about Denis Smith Jr and Malik Monk.
Lee has one of the better contracts in the nba windhorst is a moron
Quote:
Windhorst on the Jump said he spoke to a GM last night about the Knicks selling off assets like Courtney Lee. GM said they can move them but won't be getting value back because of his contract. So much for that...
Lee has one of the better contracts in the nba windhorst is a moron
While I agree Windhorst is a moron, Lee does not have one of the better contracts in the league. 12.5 mill per for a player going to be 33 in October isn't ideal. Especially on this team.
The teams interested don't really have 1st rounders to deal.
Also, Rodney Hood will be more highly coveted.
Quote:
Windhorst on the Jump said he spoke to a GM last night about the Knicks selling off assets like Courtney Lee. GM said they can move them but won't be getting value back because of his contract. So much for that...
Lee has one of the better contracts in the nba windhorst is a moron
Lee has one of the better contracts on the Knicks.
While not grossly overpaid like most Knick free agents signings over the years, Lee's deal is still a tight squeeze given market conditions. Lou Williams just signed an extension for less than the MLE.
Shooting Guards - ( New Window )
The teams interested don't really have 1st rounders to deal.
Also, Rodney Hood will be more highly coveted.
Unlike the Willy deal - the Knicks would be saving $25M over the next 2 years if they trade Lee for 2nd rounders. The Knicks saved all of $2.8M in dealing Willy for 2nd rounders - big difference.
Quote:
We are going to all explode when the Knicks get a couple of 2nd rounders for Courtney Lee, but I don't see them getting much more for him.
The teams interested don't really have 1st rounders to deal.
Also, Rodney Hood will be more highly coveted.
Unlike the Willy deal - the Knicks would be saving $25M over the next 2 years if they trade Lee for 2nd rounders. The Knicks saved all of $2.8M in dealing Willy for 2nd rounders - big difference.
They won't be able to trade Lee without taking salary back.
They seem to think they'll attract a big free agent.
Quote:
Williams at that price is a steal. I mean the Clippers aren't going anywhere but that's a team friendly deal if I ever saw one.
They seem to think they'll attract a big free agent.
Very well could be. At that price is makes sense either way. If they have to trade him off so be it.
Yeah, such a "Knicksy" thing to do. I guess it's possible there's zero trade market for O'Quinn, but if you can get anything for him, you do it and keep Willy for the time being.
They obviously do not think highly of him. I think Ill go with their judgment rather than the wishful thinking of a bunch of posters on B.B.I
There is also a discipline question. Guys are starting to act up. You have to quelch that shit ASAP.Willy is a back up. Hell probably wont of theNBA in five years.
Playing him quite possibly could reduce his value: Two seconds is a fine return, Move on. Its minor move
They obviously do not think highly of him. I think Ill go with their judgment rather than the wishful thinking of a bunch of posters on B.B.I
Hornacek hasn't done anything to show he's got a handle on this. The lineups he's played this year make no sense at times. The things he's said about players who perform well don't mesh with them disappearing from the rotation the very next game.
Trade hardaway for a pick. Trade up. Keep the kids healthy and see you next year.
Kinda wish we traded hardway before his little slump/injury thingy.
It shouldn't matter what they think of him. What matters is the value in return for a player that was a first team all-rookie last year. It is bad business. It is even poorer business if they did it out of emotion.
That's not wishful thinking by posters, it is a logical plan. You sell an asset for as much as you can, and if you can't get value, you keep him until you can.
A. Coaches and/or GMs are 100% correct in their personnel decisions. Theyre not, more specifically, Hornacek has proven that to be untrue. Not sure Id hang my hat on PT decisions that he makes.
B. We dont have a whole season of WH against NBA teams in game action to refer back to. Id put a little more value in that rather than practice. In fact, every other team looks at that when judging his value. Last year he showed a lot of promise and if we tried to trade him last off-season, Id bet we could have gotten more than what we just got. We got nothing because hes been glued to the bench.
Also no reason for jack to start let Frank and burke man the position with jack being a vet leader to them...
If Lee is still here he should not be starting...
I'd like to see kornwt and hicks get some minutes and see what we got...
Also Xavier rathan Mayes should be brought up, been dominating since burke was brought up
I know teams like stash players in Europe, but these guys are stash-trash
Trade hardaway for a pick. Trade up. Keep the kids healthy and see you next year.
Kinda wish we traded hardway before his little slump/injury thingy.
He wasn't eligible to be traded until December 15th. His "little slump/injury thingy" started before that. You should stick to not knowing what you're talking about on football threads instead of spreading it to other topics.