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Are the Redskins better, worse or same with Alex Smith?

aceinthehouse : 2/7/2018 1:31 pm
It seems like the Redskins traded for an older version of Kirk Cousins.

But there are some slight differences, if you look a little closer.

Alex seems quite a bit more mobile.

He also took a 2-14 KC team & helped turn them into a consistent Playoff team.

While the Skins progressively got worse from yr to yr.

I almost feel like Alex should be getting the money, that Cousins is demanding right now.

Am I wrong?

Someone explain this to me, so I can better understand.
Worse  
UConn4523 : 2/7/2018 1:32 pm : link
donít see him throwing downfield well and the dunk and dunk wonít work as well without Hill, Kielce and co. If they didnít pay a lot it would be fine but they have a lot of money to him and didnít get a better player.
Just as mediocre as Cousins, but older and more highly paid  
Greg from LI : 2/7/2018 1:35 pm : link
.
Smith isn't bringing them closer to a title  
JonC : 2/7/2018 1:35 pm : link
Cousins has more talent, but with him he's game to game with regards to his confidence and ability to elevate his team's performance. Lower floor, higher ceiling.

Smith tends to be better in that regard, but his skill set is limited. He often comes up small in big spots, not sure wtf the Redskins are thinking. Higher floor, lower ceiling. imv.
Cousin's 3 years as a starter  
NYG27 : 2/7/2018 1:44 pm : link
Kirk has had a minimum 4k passing and 25+ passing TDs every year. Smith has only done it once, the past year, after spending 5 years in Andy Reid's offense.

Will Smith be able to perform at a similar level that Cousins has proven over the past three years. Or will it take several years for him to perfect Gruden's offense, like it took him 5 years to get Reid's offense.

On paper, at best it's a lateral move. At worst, the Redskins offense took a step or two back.
Smith IS getting the $$ Cousins is seeking  
giants#1 : 2/7/2018 1:46 pm : link
He signed a 4 yr/~$100M extension.
Like JonC is alluding to with the floors and ceilings  
GiantTuff1 : 2/7/2018 1:58 pm : link
the issue is there is way too much overlap of both these players to move the needle any to think there's a strong reason to make this move.

I think Smith is a winner, but his ceiling was shown. It was this past year. New team, players, system. I am thinking it will at best be the same, with a strong likilhood that it will turn out worse for Washington, especially in the short-term.

As head scratching a personnel move as I can remember. Hail to the Redskins!
A little worse  
jeff57 : 2/7/2018 2:03 pm : link
Fewer turnovers, a lot less big plays.
better, worse or the same doesn't matter  
YAJ2112 : 2/7/2018 2:04 pm : link
they still suck. 27 years and counting.
Better  
Joey in VA : 2/7/2018 2:12 pm : link
And here's why, Alex Smith is a winning QB, Kirk Cousins puts up gaudy numbers and shits the bed with the game on the line. He's simply not a winning QB, Alex Smith is because he makes his teammates better and lays it all out to win. Cousins is more concerned with shouting at TV cameras and GMs to prove them wrong, Smith simply wins.
WORSE  
PaulN : 2/7/2018 2:19 pm : link
Easily, Smith is not anything close to being as good a QB as Cousins. I am happy for the fact that they are this stupid, but they are not better with Smith then they would be with Cousins. Cousins is a real good QB, just look at his numbers, what do you want from the guy, he has never had a great team behind him that he let down, he has taken crappy teams and made them competitive. I think we are going to see just how good he is next season, if the Broncos sign him I think that would be the perfect spot for Cousins.
Worse  
djstat : 2/7/2018 2:35 pm : link
Smith has had success with a great running game and outstanding coaching from Harbaugh and Reid. Cousins has had strong production with a lousy running game and lousy coaching
Skins should have signed Cousins to a long term deal  
Blue21 : 2/7/2018 2:47 pm : link
a couple years ago. They got stingey now they are gonna be screwed.
Better  
George : 2/7/2018 3:09 pm : link
I think Alex Smith is a pretty good QB and knows how to win games, and has done so with two different clubs.

Kirk Cousins, I think, will go to another team this spring and turn out to be shitty.
Better.  
81_Great_Dane : 2/7/2018 3:21 pm : link
I think some guys above are underrating Smith. Others are overrating Cousins. Cousins is a good passer, probably a bit better throwing deep, but with something important to play for, I'd rather have Smith.

Smith is expensive, but Cousins was going to be expensive too.
I don't think he moves the needle at all  
Keith : 2/7/2018 3:23 pm : link
and he doesn't make that much of a difference to cover all of their deficiencies. Even if he was a marginal upgrade, which I don't think he is, they are way more than a marginal upgrade at QB from winning anything. It's not like he's a young QB that you are going to grow with either, he's 34 and will be making big money. I don't understand any argument that suggests this was a good move.
Well he doesn't turn the ball over  
moespree : 2/7/2018 3:24 pm : link
But you're not going to win a Super Bowl with him either. So then what's the point if not to win the Super Bowl?
Smith doesn't have the track record in big games  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/7/2018 3:25 pm : link
to say he's clear-cut better than Cousins. He's too risk-averse and needs to be paired with a coach that's going to push him a bit. Otherwise all you're going to get are checkdowns.
I think theyíll be slightly better in the short term,  
Section331 : 2/7/2018 3:29 pm : link
but that contract is going to be an albatross. Smith is more accurate and mobile than Cousins, and is more protective of the ball. Iím just not sure Iíd want to pay a 39 year old Alex Smith $23 mill. In fact, Iím certain I wouldnít.
I think he's better, because he won't turn the ball  
barens : 2/7/2018 3:34 pm : link
over as much. It's not sexy for them, but he can be effective.
marginally better  
djm : 2/7/2018 4:06 pm : link
...
Smith is a qb  
Doomster : 2/7/2018 4:28 pm : link
that plays much better in the reg season than the post season...
Lots better  
JerseyCityJoe : 2/7/2018 4:32 pm : link
I don't get the disrespect for Alex Smith here. He is a top flight athlete who can hurt you with the pass and the run. Rarely makes mistakes and is a team leader. He is coming off maybe his best year. Hell yes the Redskins got better.
RE: Well he doesn't turn the ball over  
UConn4523 : 2/7/2018 4:36 pm : link
In comment 13825616 moespree said:
Quote:
But you're not going to win a Super Bowl with him either. So then what's the point if not to win the Super Bowl?


To get better, sell more tickets, sell more merchandise, get into the playoffs, etc. I know fans want a SB or bust, but relevance is huge, which the Skins aren't.

That said, this doesn't make them any more relevant than they were and they paid dearly for that.
Worse...  
Chris684 : 2/7/2018 4:41 pm : link
My ultimate breakdown of a QB is simple. Can I win a road playoff game with this guy. If he can do that, he can do anything you need.

I would take my chances with Cousins based on that far sooner than I would Alex Smith.

Cousins can make throws Smith cannot. Neither do a whole lot for overall though.
Better  
HomerJones45 : 2/7/2018 4:47 pm : link
Smith is more consistent. There are some wild swings with Cousins- he'll have some really big games and some really bad games. Smith will also throw 10 fewer picks than Cousins.
Probably about the same  
RobCarpenter : 2/7/2018 5:13 pm : link
I wonder how much of Cousinsí success was a benefit of having McVay as his OC, at least in the years before this past season.
Eh...  
T-Bone : 2/7/2018 5:13 pm : link
not much of a difference either way IMO. I think RIGHT NOW Cousins is the better QB overall but Smith is the 'safer' QB of the two. The tiebreaker to me is that this Smiths' third team in his career now... a career where he's always trying to be replaced with someone 'better'. Meanwhile, Cousins REPLACED someone who was supposed to be the better player because HE was the better player.

So even though I say not much of a difference either way, if I had a choice between the two I'd go with the younger player who's not on his third team and has spent a majority of his career trying to be replaced. So I'll say slightly worse... but not enough for it to really mean anything.
Smith vs Cousins  
Archer : 2/7/2018 5:29 pm : link
Smith does not have a strong arm and he seems to have problems when he plays in windy and inclement weather

Since he will be playing in Washington and the NFC East I think that he will struggle

Smith is a talented QB and I expect him to start out strong but to wane as the season progresses
Slightly better  
Mdgiantsfan : 2/7/2018 5:30 pm : link
I think they are a wash as QBs. Smith is the better runner which is a plus, but Kirk the better passer. It should be a little better due to the fact that Alex has security and as result will play freely. Whereas Kirk was always playing for a long term deal and as result was much more cautious. Never willing to justynlet it rip so he didnít risk piling up the Ints. The Skins paid all that money yet didnít care about this aspect of the situation.
Seems like a wash to me.  
Brown Recluse : 2/7/2018 5:43 pm : link
Trading the erratic player with big play potential for someone with more consistency and less talent.

The dumbest part of this was the Skins traded a very good CB as well.
I think better  
Breeze_94 : 2/7/2018 7:07 pm : link
Alex Smith has been in the playoffs 6 of the last 7 years, and led the NFL in passer rating last year. His record in that time is 69-31-1. Obviously, he has had a good team around him in SF and KC, but the guy wins games.

On defense, I don't like the move of giving up Fuller (as a Giants fan I don't mind it), but he is somewhat replaceable. They have Fabian Moreau who I liked in the draft last year on the roster, as well as Josh Norman and possibly re-signing Breeland
Worse  
Ron from Ninerland : 2/7/2018 7:26 pm : link
Alex Smith's advantage, and I'm taking Andy Reid's word for it is that he's smart and coachable. He can manage a complex offense . He wasn't very good with the Niners, even when they started to win. Also with the Niners he was terrible throwing on the run. Flush him out of the pocket and the best he could do is run. I haven't seen enough of KC to know if he's improved.

And one more little thing. The Giants have owned him over the years. Even last year when the Giants could do nothing else right, they still kicked his ass.
Worse  
bob_in_ec : 2/7/2018 7:30 pm : link
because they traded a third-round pick (plus cornerback Kendall Fuller) for Smith. They still have Cousins and are thinking about tagging him again - tag and trade - its the theme of Skins sports radio - I kid you not!!!
RE: Cousin's 3 years as a starter  
elgoman : 2/7/2018 8:16 pm : link
In comment 13825397 NYG27 said:
Quote:
Kirk has had a minimum 4k passing and 25+ passing TDs every year. Smith has only done it once, the past year, after spending 5 years in Andy Reid's offense.

Will Smith be able to perform at a similar level that Cousins has proven over the past three years. Or will it take several years for him to perfect Gruden's offense, like it took him 5 years to get Reid's offense.

On paper, at best it's a lateral move. At worst, the Redskins offense took a step or two back.


Cousins threw 100 times more than Alex Smith, so that factors into the reason Cousins has more yards than Alex. Giants' fans overrate throwing yards because that's an excuse used for Eli. Matt Stafford has HOF level throwing yards and he's not a top 10 QB.

On a comparative per throw basis, Alex Smith is actually more efficient than Cousins. He's also cheaper. So the Redskins are better.
I think they are the same - I don't see how the Skins improved  
PatersonPlank : 2/7/2018 8:29 pm : link
themselves. I don't think Smith is a better thrower, any more mobile, or better in any way. Another bone head move by the Deadskins.
RE: RE: Cousin's 3 years as a starter  
UConn4523 : 2/7/2018 8:46 pm : link
In comment 13825910 elgoman said:
Quote:
In comment 13825397 NYG27 said:


Quote:


Kirk has had a minimum 4k passing and 25+ passing TDs every year. Smith has only done it once, the past year, after spending 5 years in Andy Reid's offense.

Will Smith be able to perform at a similar level that Cousins has proven over the past three years. Or will it take several years for him to perfect Gruden's offense, like it took him 5 years to get Reid's offense.

On paper, at best it's a lateral move. At worst, the Redskins offense took a step or two back.



Cousins threw 100 times more than Alex Smith, so that factors into the reason Cousins has more yards than Alex. Giants' fans overrate throwing yards because that's an excuse used for Eli. Matt Stafford has HOF level throwing yards and he's not a top 10 QB.

On a comparative per throw basis, Alex Smith is actually more efficient than Cousins. He's also cheaper. So the Redskins are better.


How many Tyree Hill busted plays are you favoriting in? Smith doesnít throw down field and Cousins does, to far inferior talent. I donít like Cousins but saying Smith is more efficient on a yardage basis is bullshit. Heís a dunk and dunk passer who happened to play in a great offense with 3 really good skill players in Hill Hunt and Kelce. Context is needed if you are going to rely on numbers to make an argument.
Factoring  
UConn4523 : 2/7/2018 8:47 pm : link
*
On paper the QBs seem a wash  
Jim in Fairfax : 2/7/2018 8:49 pm : link
You can argue one or the other is better in various ways, but on paper they are close. But there are other factors:

1) They are giving 5 years and guaranteeing $88M to a 34 year old player.

2) They gave up a 22 y.o. CB who rated in the top 10 in the league last year. Even if you donít buy the rating, everyone agrees heís very good.

3) They gave up a 3rd round pick.

By any measure that makes them worse off. Itís a lot to pay for a relatively lateral move. It does buy them certainly at QB ó assuming Smith is a good fit in the system and with the personnel, which is not guaranteed.
Maybe slightly better  
Matt M. : 2/7/2018 8:57 pm : link
Nothing significant either way. And to re-sign or crancbise Cousins, it would cost them more.
RE: RE: RE: Cousin's 3 years as a starter  
elgoman : 2/7/2018 9:18 pm : link
In comment 13825929 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 13825910 elgoman said:


Quote:


In comment 13825397 NYG27 said:


Quote:


Kirk has had a minimum 4k passing and 25+ passing TDs every year. Smith has only done it once, the past year, after spending 5 years in Andy Reid's offense.

Will Smith be able to perform at a similar level that Cousins has proven over the past three years. Or will it take several years for him to perfect Gruden's offense, like it took him 5 years to get Reid's offense.

On paper, at best it's a lateral move. At worst, the Redskins offense took a step or two back.



Cousins threw 100 times more than Alex Smith, so that factors into the reason Cousins has more yards than Alex. Giants' fans overrate throwing yards because that's an excuse used for Eli. Matt Stafford has HOF level throwing yards and he's not a top 10 QB.

On a comparative per throw basis, Alex Smith is actually more efficient than Cousins. He's also cheaper. So the Redskins are better.



How many Tyree Hill busted plays are you favoriting in? Smith doesnít throw down field and Cousins does, to far inferior talent. I donít like Cousins but saying Smith is more efficient on a yardage basis is bullshit. Heís a dunk and dunk passer who happened to play in a great offense with 3 really good skill players in Hill Hunt and Kelce. Context is needed if you are going to rely on numbers to make an argument.


Cousins in 2016 had weapons, including Desean Jackson, Jordan Reed, and Pierre Garcon. He was still less impressive than Alex Smith in 2017. So I don't see how Redskins aren't at least the same or better. Alex is more consistent than Cousins
I agree  
mattyblue : 2/7/2018 9:24 pm : link
with those saying about the same to a little better. What I still donít understand is why they didnít retain Cousins for the money they spent on Smith? Even if Smith is better it doesnít seem like he is by a wide margin. At least to me it doesnít, but heís also older. I could see the Skins drafting a QB in one of the first two rounds.
He doesnít throw the ball downfield  
UConn4523 : 2/7/2018 9:25 pm : link
I repeat, he doesnít grow the ball down field. And with less talent around him heís not going to get away with what he did in KC.

Lastly, Iím not advocating for either QB. From a pure money standpoint Smith will command less than Cousins but they gave up more than money to get him. Itís likely a wash but Smith wonít elevate them because he has a limited skillset.
RE: I agree  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/7/2018 9:38 pm : link
In comment 13825966 mattyblue said:
Quote:
with those saying about the same to a little better. What I still donít understand is why they didnít retain Cousins for the money they spent on Smith?


The relationship was already poisoned by how the franchise mishandled this. They started out negotiations by lowballing and showed no real confidence in his ability. They probably could have kept him with a little more talent in building a relationship.
Sorry but if you're gonna sit here and say  
djm : 2/7/2018 9:40 pm : link
That Alex smith didn't go downfield in 2017 you're nuts. I watched a ton of Alex smith in 2017. He went downfield. He's an effective ame manager with marginal talent around him. If he has a running game he's effective. If he has good or elite talent around him like he did in 2017 he's prolific. Period. Watch the games and look at the stat sheets over the years. He's been solid if unspectacular for years while steadily progressing under Reid and broke out this season.

Smith is on a new team now so we'll see if he can adapt but under no circumstances do I think smith struggles. He's a pro. I view smith as safer than cousins and with equal upside.
I think he's heavily reliant on players around him making him better  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/7/2018 9:46 pm : link
He took more downfield shots last year than in the past couple of seasons put together. But he had some players in Kansas City and a great running game.
I think Smith is much more consistent and better...  
DonQuixote : 2/7/2018 9:48 pm : link
I think the loss of Fuller is significant. This means it is a bit of a wash, as you'd expect the average trade to be. It's possible the trade helped both teams.
DJM  
UConn4523 : 2/7/2018 10:17 pm : link
I watched a bunch as a Kelce owner, he grew down field into lots of busted coverages thanks to his skill players. He doesnít have a big arm and heís simply not good playing from behind. The KC offense was perfect for him and heís moving to an offense with far less talent. Iíd be shocked if he had the same success in Washington.
Steadier, but not Better  
Rafflee : 2/7/2018 10:51 pm : link
Cousins has remaining upside....but he's a talent without a Brain. He fails mentally in Big Spots.... forced throws, Fumbles...1st down sacks instead of throiw aways.

The problem with Smith is about beating Good teams----Smith needs games he can Manage. He lacks the Vertical threat. He can close out games his team plays well--- throuble playing from behind or trading scores.
RE: Steadier, but not Better  
FStubbs : 2/7/2018 11:13 pm : link
In comment 13826064 Rafflee said:
Quote:
Cousins has remaining upside....but he's a talent without a Brain. He fails mentally in Big Spots.... forced throws, Fumbles...1st down sacks instead of throiw aways.

The problem with Smith is about beating Good teams----Smith needs games he can Manage. He lacks the Vertical threat. He can close out games his team plays well--- throuble playing from behind or trading scores.


Upside? Cousins will be 30 next year. He is what he is.
Some people seem to be overlooking  
nyballa0891 : 2/7/2018 11:31 pm : link
The amount of talent Smith had around him..compare that to what the skins have...the guy will prob struggle this year
The Skins are in the same position regardless: Screwed  
Boy Cord : 2/8/2018 9:37 am : link
They just aren't winning a Super Bowl until Dan Snyder gets some competent football people running the operation.

With respect to the team, I think Alex Smith is an upgrade for the same reasons Joey in VA laid out. Alex Smith is not an attention whore like Cousins.
Perfect Scenario  
Giantslifer : 2/8/2018 3:21 pm : link
Since the DC team has already agreed (verbally) to extend Smith for $ 70,000,000 + they now have to decide what to do with Cousins.
Being the incompetent DC team , they will franchise Cousins, hoping tp trade him.
Unfortunately, no team wants cousins at his 27M+ 4 year demand
DC team is stuck with 2 QB's @ 50M + destroying their salary cap.
Perfect!!
Alex Smith is 2-5 in the playoffs  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/8/2018 6:11 pm : link
0-3 in his last 3.
RE: RE: Cousin's 3 years as a starter  
Sonic Youth : 2/8/2018 6:40 pm : link
In comment 13825910 elgoman said:
Quote:
In comment 13825397 NYG27 said:


Quote:


Kirk has had a minimum 4k passing and 25+ passing TDs every year. Smith has only done it once, the past year, after spending 5 years in Andy Reid's offense.

Will Smith be able to perform at a similar level that Cousins has proven over the past three years. Or will it take several years for him to perfect Gruden's offense, like it took him 5 years to get Reid's offense.

On paper, at best it's a lateral move. At worst, the Redskins offense took a step or two back.



Cousins threw 100 times more than Alex Smith, so that factors into the reason Cousins has more yards than Alex. Giants' fans overrate throwing yards because that's an excuse used for Eli. Matt Stafford has HOF level throwing yards and he's not a top 10 QB.

On a comparative per throw basis, Alex Smith is actually more efficient than Cousins. He's also cheaper. So the Redskins are better.

Stafford isn't a top 10 QB? news to me
Stafford may be closer to 5 than 10  
UConn4523 : 2/8/2018 6:48 pm : link
some people just donít want to see it for some reason. Outside of Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, and I guess Brees itís wide open. Add in Ben to round out the top 5 (which I think is skewed anyway due to his insane supportin cast).

From there you have Wentz whoís a big ? post injury, Ryan, Newton, Stafford, Rivers. Goff needs another year before Iíll definitively add him in here.

Stafford is easy top 10 for me as I think heís better than at least a few of the guys in that 2nd grouping, possibly better than all of them.
.  
arcarsenal : 2/8/2018 7:38 pm : link
Stafford was a top 5 QB this year.

...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 2/8/2018 8:26 pm : link
Similar to Cousins, but older & being paid more.

LONG LIVE DANNY!
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