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NFT: Mudiay to Knicks

ryanmkeane : 2/8/2018 2:05 pm
per Woj
3 way deal...  
ryanmkeane : 2/8/2018 2:06 pm : link
McDermott to Dallas and Harris to Denver
Rumors  
Keith : 2/8/2018 2:06 pm : link
are the Knicks gave up 3 firsts, including this years.
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2018 2:06 pm : link
Adrian Wojnarowski

Verified account

@wojespn
1m1 minute ago
More
Denver, New York and Dallas agreed on a three-way deal, league sources tell ESPN. Mudiay to Knicks; Devin Harris to Denver and Doug McDermott to Dallas.
RE: Rumors  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 2/8/2018 2:07 pm : link
In comment 13826645 Keith said:
Quote:
are the Knicks gave up 3 firsts, including this years.


That's a f*cking joke right?
RE: RE: Rumors  
Keith : 2/8/2018 2:07 pm : link
In comment 13826653 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
In comment 13826645 Keith said:


Quote:


are the Knicks gave up 3 firsts, including this years.



That's a f*cking joke right?


lol, yes.
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2018 2:08 pm : link
If that's the entire deal it's a no-.brainer for the Knicks (yes Mudiay has not been very good, or even good) #Knicks
RE: RE: RE: Rumors  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 2/8/2018 2:09 pm : link
In comment 13826656 Keith said:
Quote:
In comment 13826653 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


In comment 13826645 Keith said:


Quote:


are the Knicks gave up 3 firsts, including this years.



That's a f*cking joke right?



lol, yes.


With the Knicks, you never know...
RE: RE: RE: Rumors  
Harvest Blend : 2/8/2018 2:09 pm : link
In comment 13826656 Keith said:
Quote:
In comment 13826653 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


In comment 13826645 Keith said:


Quote:


are the Knicks gave up 3 firsts, including this years.



That's a f*cking joke right?



lol, yes.


That's borderline bannable. Made me do my Fred Sanford impression. :)
It's kinda sad  
Keith : 2/8/2018 2:10 pm : link
that it's not out of the realm of a knicksism.

Can't argue with this  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 2/8/2018 2:10 pm : link
...
Trade  
Pete44 : 2/8/2018 2:14 pm : link
Unless there are some picks involved that are not reported, that sees like a good low risk move. I liked Mudiay in that draft.
someone tell me how I should feel  
tbonfig : 2/8/2018 2:14 pm : link
I know he's young and was a top 10 or so pick but isn't he a scrub?

Is this because of full on tank mode?
Future`  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2018 2:14 pm : link
2nd to Denver
RE: someone tell me how I should feel  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2018 2:15 pm : link
In comment 13826690 tbonfig said:
Quote:
I know he's young and was a top 10 or so pick but isn't he a scrub?

Is this because of full on tank mode?


He's been awful (biggest red flag is very poor defense despite being a plus plus athlete). Plus side is 37% from 3 (I was shocked) and an improved 12.5 PER.. still .31 WS/48... yuck
RE: Future`  
GFAN52 : 2/8/2018 2:16 pm : link
In comment 13826691 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
2nd to Denver


Are you sure?
Nice use  
Pete44 : 2/8/2018 2:16 pm : link
of a 2nd round pick. Mudiay is buried in Denver, still young.
RE: RE: Future`  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2018 2:16 pm : link
In comment 13826701 GFAN52 said:
Quote:
In comment 13826691 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


2nd to Denver



Are you sure?


No but Woj is
I see he was the 7th pick of the draft in 2015..  
Sean : 2/8/2018 2:16 pm : link
With Frank, what are the plans with him?
Ugggh.  
Ira : 2/8/2018 2:17 pm : link
Among point guards, he has the lowest +/- of anyone in the league.
Have to think they have something lined up for Jack  
Jim in Fairfax : 2/8/2018 2:17 pm : link
.
A good post-hype reclamation guy  
Heisenberg : 2/8/2018 2:18 pm : link
still has great athleticism and has shown improvement offensively
RE: Future`  
Canton : 2/8/2018 2:18 pm : link
In comment 13826691 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
2nd to Denver


Dallas is acquiring 2nd round pick from Denver
He was a gamble on draft night  
Keith : 2/8/2018 2:19 pm : link
as a bit of an unknown and he's been a big disappointment in the NBA. He hasn't developed at all. His minutes were cut big time coming into this season. He's still young and on a rookie contract so it's worth the risk to bring him in and see if you could develop him. He has good physical attributes.
RE: RE: Future`  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2018 2:19 pm : link
In comment 13826718 Canton said:
Quote:
In comment 13826691 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


2nd to Denver



Dallas is acquiring 2nd round pick from Denver


This was the initial tweet,

Adrian Wojnarowski

Verified account

@wojespn
8m8 minutes ago
More Adrian Wojnarowski Retweeted Adrian Wojnarowski
New York will send Denver a future second-round pick in the trade, league sources tell ESPN.

He then said

Adrian Wojnarowski

Verified account

@wojespn
2m2 minutes ago
More
Denver and New York was swapping second-round picks in the three-way trade, league sources tell ESPN. Denver gets New York's 2018 second-round pick via Clippers, and Knicks get Denver's second-round pick via Portland.
RE: RE: RE: Future`  
GFAN52 : 2/8/2018 2:19 pm : link
In comment 13826705 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13826701 GFAN52 said:


Quote:


In comment 13826691 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


2nd to Denver



Are you sure?



No but Woj is


Nope you're incorrect, its a swap of picks.

Adrian Wojnarowski

@wojespn
Denver and New York was swapping second-round picks in the three-way trade, league sources tell ESPN. Denver gets New York's 2018 second-round pick via Clippers, and Knicks get Denver's second-round pick via Portland.
2:16 PM - Feb 8, 2018
RE: someone tell me how I should feel  
TyreeHelmet : 2/8/2018 2:19 pm : link
In comment 13826690 tbonfig said:
Quote:
I know he's young and was a top 10 or so pick but isn't he a scrub?

Is this because of full on tank mode?


Its a good buy low player but hes been very bad. He doesnt really do anything well. Hopefully a change of scenery helps. Maybe Hornacek can help develop him...hahah.
Shams  
Canton : 2/8/2018 2:19 pm : link
Quote:
Sources: Dallas is also acquiring second-round pick from Denver in trade sending Emmanuel Mudiay to New York, Devin Harris to Denver, Doug McDermott to Mavs.
A great coach could make something of Mudiay  
Greg from LI : 2/8/2018 2:20 pm : link
Unfortunately, we have Hornacek, so....
Not A bad deal  
dk in TX : 2/8/2018 2:20 pm : link
for the Knicks.
So Knicks trade big men due to logjam  
tbonfig : 2/8/2018 2:20 pm : link
Only to create one at the guard position. Seems about right.

And a sweetner of a 2nd rounder which was so valuable yesterday in the Hernangomez trade.

Meh, this reeks of just garbage. Not a fan of the trade.

I am curious to see what other action the Knicks get in today.

At this point, although I enjoy watching them, I'd like to see some returns for Lee and KOQ.

Leave Kanter here, I think he can be part of the future.
So  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2018 2:21 pm : link
the Knicks currently would be picking

So the Knicks currently pick 38th and 49th in the 2nd round
Mudiay's FG numbers last 3 years  
djm : 2/8/2018 2:21 pm : link
36% year 1
37% year 2
40% year 3

32% 3pt
31% 3pt
37% 3pt
RE: RE: RE: RE: Future`  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2018 2:22 pm : link
In comment 13826725 GFAN52 said:
Quote:
In comment 13826705 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


In comment 13826701 GFAN52 said:


Quote:


In comment 13826691 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


2nd to Denver



Are you sure?



No but Woj is



Nope you're incorrect, its a swap of picks.

Adrian Wojnarowski

@wojespn
Denver and New York was swapping second-round picks in the three-way trade, league sources tell ESPN. Denver gets New York's 2018 second-round pick via Clippers, and Knicks get Denver's second-round pick via Portland.
2:16 PM - Feb 8, 2018


Actually no I am not incorrect. Woj corrected himself. Again the initial tweet

"@wojespn
8m8 minutes ago
More Adrian Wojnarowski Retweeted Adrian Wojnarowski
New York will send Denver a future second-round pick in the trade, league sources tell ESPN."

I'm incorrect for stating something the original source had wrong? lol
Wow that's a great trade!  
DennyInDenville : 2/8/2018 2:22 pm : link
.
Assuming  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2018 2:23 pm : link
Woj is now accurate

So the Knicks currently pick 38th and 49th in the 2nd round
I recall a lot of BBIers water Mudiay over Pozingis  
dk in TX : 2/8/2018 2:23 pm : link
.
Trading McBuckets  
Mike in NY : 2/8/2018 2:23 pm : link
Opens up more playing time for Lance Thomas

Though with Trey Burke and Frank not sure where Mudiay gets minutes. Definitely has more upside than McDermott
RE: Mudiay's FG numbers last 3 years  
Canton : 2/8/2018 2:24 pm : link
In comment 13826740 djm said:
Quote:
36% year 1
37% year 2
40% year 3

32% 3pt
31% 3pt
37% 3pt


He may be a late bloomer. He's shown some improvement from his first year to his third.
Trade  
Pete44 : 2/8/2018 2:25 pm : link
This is a good trade, goes along with the Knicks becoming more athletic. Mudiay was a very good prospect and still is young enough to improve with proper coaching.

Thankfully, we did not give up a first rounder.
I recall a lot of BBIers water Mudiay over Pozingis  
dk in TX : 2/8/2018 2:25 pm : link
In the 2015 draft.
Mudiay is the most athletic guard on the team  
Heisenberg : 2/8/2018 2:25 pm : link
and it's not really close. Can't argue with this deal at all. I love McBuckets but Mudiay can still develop. I like it.
You don't see where Mudiay gets minutes over...Trey Burke?  
Greg from LI : 2/8/2018 2:26 pm : link
haaahahahaha...you're not serious, are you?
RE: RE: Mudiay's FG numbers last 3 years  
Heisenberg : 2/8/2018 2:26 pm : link
In comment 13826753 Canton said:
Quote:
In comment 13826740 djm said:


Quote:


36% year 1
37% year 2
40% year 3

32% 3pt
31% 3pt
37% 3pt



He may be a late bloomer. He's shown some improvement from his first year to his third.



Shooting 80% from FT, so it's not like he's a bad shooter in general. Could be shot selection and some mechanical stuff that is something that can improve.
2nd round swap  
TyreeHelmet : 2/8/2018 2:27 pm : link
Im confused what pick is being swapped? Not the Bulls we got in the Melo deal right?
Bottom  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2018 2:27 pm : link
line is next years team won't have high hopes with KP?? So paying Dougie didn't make a ton of sense. Mudiay isn't restricted until after NEXT season so worthy gamble.
RE: I recall a lot of BBIers water Mudiay over Pozingis  
DennyInDenville : 2/8/2018 2:28 pm : link
In comment 13826756 dk in TX said:
Quote:
In the 2015 draft.

I was one of them . KAT, Mudiay, KP was my top 3
We need to dump Jack so Hornacek doesn't continue playing him.  
bceagle05 : 2/8/2018 2:28 pm : link
Like in "Moneyball" when Billy Beane trading the other 1B options so Art Howe had to play Hatteberg.
Frank Isola  
Canton : 2/8/2018 2:28 pm : link
Quote:
The Knicks could have acquired Elfrid Payton, a Scott Perry favorite, but they would not include Frank Ntilikina in the deal with Orlando. Instead, they went after Mudiay.
Always been a fan of Mudiay  
ghost718 : 2/8/2018 2:28 pm : link
So I won't get to use the sledgehammer today
I like the trade despite the fact I read an article earlier this  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 2/8/2018 2:28 pm : link
season single-handedly blaming Mudiay for Nikola Jokic's early season struggles.
RE: Trading McBuckets  
dk in TX : 2/8/2018 2:29 pm : link
In comment 13826750 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
Opens up more playing time for Lance Thomas

Though with Trey Burke and Frank not sure where Mudiay gets minutes. Definitely has more upside than McDermott


Lance Thomas is my least favorite Knick. An overrated defender and horrible in offense.
Say what you want about Lance Thomas  
Keith : 2/8/2018 2:30 pm : link
but he will get minutes and he will help this team in the long term.

We need to lose as many games as possible.
RE: RE: Trading McBuckets  
DennyInDenville : 2/8/2018 2:30 pm : link
In comment 13826772 dk in TX said:
Quote:
In comment 13826750 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


Opens up more playing time for Lance Thomas

Though with Trey Burke and Frank not sure where Mudiay gets minutes. Definitely has more upside than McDermott



Lance Thomas is my least favorite Knick. An overrated defender and horrible in offense.

Also one of the worst rebounders I've ever seen , times his jumps as poorly as possible and is low key very soft.
Tommy Beer  
Canton : 2/8/2018 2:30 pm : link
Quote:
Smart trade by the Knicks, buying low on a young, athletic PG in Mudiay while only giving up McDermott, who wasnt a long-term piece twitter.com/wojespn/
.  
bceagle05 : 2/8/2018 2:30 pm : link
Quote:
@FisolaNYDN

The Knicks could have acquired Elfrid Payton, a Scott Perry favorite, but they would not include Frank Ntilikina in the deal with Orlando. Instead, they went after Mudiay.
Isola  
Pete44 : 2/8/2018 2:31 pm : link
claims the Magic wanted Frenchie for Payton.
I'll be very honest - I really have no idea who Elfrid Payton is  
Greg from LI : 2/8/2018 2:31 pm : link
Since he apparently plays for Orlando, that would explain why. I don't think I've watched an Orlando game since Howard left.
RE: You don't see where Mudiay gets minutes over...Trey Burke?  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 2/8/2018 2:32 pm : link
In comment 13826758 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
haaahahahaha...you're not serious, are you?


Yeah because Trey Burke hasnt been playing like our best PG. Oh, hes another Jimmer. Clown.
Knicks drafted Porzingas and still end up with Mudiay  
Canton : 2/8/2018 2:32 pm : link
The Universe is Amazing
You know that guy  
Keith : 2/8/2018 2:33 pm : link
with the really annoying hair? You know, the front pony tail that goes over his face....him. For that reason alone I don't want to watch him.

I feel like he always plays well vs the knicks though.
Personally  
Mike in NY : 2/8/2018 2:33 pm : link
I would trade Lee and go with a line-up of
PG - Mudiay/Jack
SG - Frank/Burke
SF - Hardaway
PF - Beasley
C - Kanter

Jack does not do anything long term for us, but he would at least provide a veteran presence on 2nd unit
I like the past two trades.  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 2/8/2018 2:33 pm : link
I know people are upset about WHG, but hes a dinosaur out there in todays league.
Trey Burke  
Keith : 2/8/2018 2:34 pm : link
has earned minutes. He's played well.
three of the top 7 picks...  
Italianju : 2/8/2018 2:34 pm : link
from the KP draft have been traded already, ha.

Come on knicks get me something for KOQ and Lee and this could be a solid day.
Maybe they'll package him with  
jeff57 : 2/8/2018 2:34 pm : link
Ntilikina in a trade for Dennis Smith.
RE: RE: You don't see where Mudiay gets minutes over...Trey Burke?  
Greg from LI : 2/8/2018 2:35 pm : link
In comment 13826785 LawrenceTaylor56 said:
Quote:
Yeah because Trey Burke hasnt been playing like our best PG. Oh, hes another Jimmer. Clown.


Hey, maybe we can find more Michigan stiffs and really make a major push for the #1 overall pick!
Trey Burke is like...  
Italianju : 2/8/2018 2:35 pm : link
4 feet tall, he isnt playing SG. If we dont trade Jack they shoudl release him.

Guard rotation should be
Mudiay/Burke
THJR/Frank

and if they want to get some minutes for Dotson then THJR plays some SF.
Problem with Elfrid is he's an RFA  
bceagle05 : 2/8/2018 2:35 pm : link
and if you give up Ntilikina, or anything else of value, you're pretty much locked into signing Payton on a 4yr/$50 type of deal. This is a much better alternative.
Is Mudiay 21 years old?  
Beezer : 2/8/2018 2:36 pm : link
Man, I really like this.
Adam Mares - Denver Beat  
Canton : 2/8/2018 2:36 pm : link
Quote:
One last note: Mudiay has not talked to the Denver media all season. He has stonewalled us all. And Denver is a SOFT media market. Curious to see how he handles NYC.
Frank cant play the #2  
Carl in CT : 2/8/2018 2:36 pm : link
He cant shoot.
doubt we are moving Lee if this is the best MEM can do....  
Italianju : 2/8/2018 2:37 pm : link
David Aldridge‏Verified account
@daldridgetnt
Following Following @daldridgetnt
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Grizz have had second-round pick offers for Tyreke Evans for weeks now. Have half an hour to decide whether theyll take them.
Great move  
brunswick : 2/8/2018 2:37 pm : link
No issues at all...
Kornet 22  
Beezer : 2/8/2018 2:37 pm : link
Hicks 23

RE: Is Mudiay 21 years old?  
Canton : 2/8/2018 2:37 pm : link
In comment 13826797 Beezer said:
Quote:
Man, I really like this.


Came in the league at 19. He can definitely turn into something for us. He still has 3-4 years of development before he starts to hit his prime years.
RE: Frank cant play the #2  
Beezer : 2/8/2018 2:37 pm : link
In comment 13826799 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
He cant shoot.


He's 19 years old.
RE: doubt we are moving Lee if this is the best MEM can do....  
Mike in NY : 2/8/2018 2:38 pm : link
In comment 13826801 Italianju said:
Quote:
David Aldridge‏Verified account
@daldridgetnt
Following Following @daldridgetnt
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Grizz have had second-round pick offers for Tyreke Evans for weeks now. Have half an hour to decide whether theyll take them.


I guess a pair of 2nd's for Willy doesn't seem so bad now
KOQ  
Beezer : 2/8/2018 2:38 pm : link
should be dealt. As much of a good guy as he is.
RE: RE: doubt we are moving Lee if this is the best MEM can do....  
Keith : 2/8/2018 2:39 pm : link
In comment 13826808 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 13826801 Italianju said:


Quote:


David AldridgeVerified account
@daldridgetnt
Following Following @daldridgetnt
More
Grizz have had second-round pick offers for Tyreke Evans for weeks now. Have half an hour to decide whether theyll take them.



I guess a pair of 2nd's for Willy doesn't seem so bad now


No, it does. Better off holding onto him and giving him minutes.
After getting Mudiay  
Canton : 2/8/2018 2:39 pm : link
Would Perry go back to Orlando and give up Ntilikina' for Peyton?
Love this move  
Modus Operandi : 2/8/2018 2:39 pm : link
Really liked him in the draft. Big, athletic, unselfish distributor. Will turn 22 next month.

He did flash during some games but was fairly inconsistent. But remember, he was basically a HS kid coming into the NBA. Maybe was asked to do too much too early.

Nice job, every if he turns into Frenchie insurance. Gives us a nice, super young PG tandem who each bring a different skill set to the court, and more importantly, are pass first guys.
Yup he is 19  
Carl in CT : 2/8/2018 2:39 pm : link
And still he cant shoot.
I know we should trade KOQ,  
Keith : 2/8/2018 2:40 pm : link
but it'll suck. Grew up in NY, grew up a knicks fan, family still in the area. Shame he couldn't be a part of a winning team here.
RE: Yup he is 19  
Beezer : 2/8/2018 2:40 pm : link
In comment 13826814 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
And still he cant shoot.


I reeeeeally hate the impatience.

Meanwhile Mudiay has not spoken to the Denver media all season. Should be interesting. lol
What are we going to do  
Carl in CT : 2/8/2018 2:41 pm : link
When Kyrie decides to come home?
RE: Love this move  
Beezer : 2/8/2018 2:41 pm : link
In comment 13826813 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:
Really liked him in the draft. Big, athletic, unselfish distributor. Will turn 22 next month.

He did flash during some games but was fairly inconsistent. But remember, he was basically a HS kid coming into the NBA. Maybe was asked to do too much too early.

Nice job, every if he turns into Frenchie insurance. Gives us a nice, super young PG tandem who each bring a different skill set to the court, and more importantly, are pass first guys.


Carl, see the bolded text.

:)
Im just saying Frank is and always has been  
Carl in CT : 2/8/2018 2:41 pm : link
A #1 not a forced #2
RE: .  
tbonfig : 2/8/2018 2:43 pm : link
In comment 13826779 bceagle05 said:
Quote:


Quote:


@FisolaNYDN

The Knicks could have acquired Elfrid Payton, a Scott Perry favorite, but they would not include Frank Ntilikina in the deal with Orlando. Instead, they went after Mudiay.



Good, that makes me happy.
I like Frank (agree he might have been rushed)  
Carl in CT : 2/8/2018 2:44 pm : link
As a 1. Dont see him being a 2 at all (except he can guard 2s).
Knicks Daily  
Canton : 2/8/2018 2:44 pm : link
Emmanuel Mudiay is currently posting career-highs in FG%, 3PT%, and FT%.

Hes still just 21 years of age.
I think both Mudiay and Frank  
Modus Operandi : 2/8/2018 2:47 pm : link
Are PGs. Mudiay has a better handle (at present) and can really push the ball up the court. Good finisher. More polished offensive player. Frank's a better defender.

There may be times where both are on the court, but neither one is a go-to scorer (as yet). I think we will see Mudiay starting with Frank coming off the bench.
Knicks Film School  
Canton : 2/8/2018 2:47 pm : link
Quote:
These are the offensive play types Emmanuel Mudiay has shot the ball from most often this season

The percentile represents where his Points Per Possession ranks (100% is best)

P&R Ball-Handler: 37% (Avg)
Spot-up: 34% (Avg)
Transition: 25% (Below Avg)

#Knicks
March Berman  
Canton : 2/8/2018 2:49 pm : link
Quote:
NBA executive on trade: "Knicks feel Mudiay is similar to Elfrid but has better talent potential.
RE: I think both Mudiay and Frank  
Mike in NY : 2/8/2018 2:51 pm : link
In comment 13826836 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:
Are PGs. Mudiay has a better handle (at present) and can really push the ball up the court. Good finisher. More polished offensive player. Frank's a better defender.

There may be times where both are on the court, but neither one is a go-to scorer (as yet). I think we will see Mudiay starting with Frank coming off the bench.


Not with Jarrett Jack still on the roster
Elf traded to PHX...  
Italianju : 2/8/2018 2:55 pm : link
for a 2nd according to WOJ. Has to be more to that right?
Emmanuel Mudiay Full Highlights vs Thunder (2017.11.09) - 21 Pts  
Canton : 2/8/2018 2:55 pm : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Elf traded to PHX...  
bceagle05 : 2/8/2018 2:56 pm : link
In comment 13826844 Italianju said:
Quote:
for a 2nd according to WOJ. Has to be more to that right?


I guess teams just assume they can fleece the Knicks. Once that's off the table, they make a reasonable trade.
They  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2018 2:56 pm : link
wanted Frank but settled on a 2nd rounder? Strange if true.
RE: Knicks Film School  
Modus Operandi : 2/8/2018 2:57 pm : link
Quote:
These are the offensive play types Emmanuel Mudiay has shot the ball from most often this season

The percentile represents where his Points Per Possession ranks (100% is best)

P&R Ball-Handler: 37% (Avg)
Spot-up: 34% (Avg)
Transition: 25% (Below Avg)

#Knicks



Again, Mudiay is now about the age that most kids are getting drafted out of college. He was basically a HS kid who was asked to run an NBA team, missed 14 games his rookie year with an ankle and never quite settled into the #1 role.

Ton of potential and I'm surprised they moved on from him. Unselfish kid by all accounts.

Apart from Jokic, who are you distributing the ball to? Who are the leaders on that team?
should ahve traded for both elf...  
Italianju : 2/8/2018 2:57 pm : link
and mudiay at that cost. Increase your chances someone works out, haha.

PHX loves nothing more then trading and trading for PGs. Just in the last couple years they have had what Dragic, Bledsoe, Knight, IT, and Elf? Im sure im forgetting someone
Phoenix  
Pete44 : 2/8/2018 3:00 pm : link
Is it the Suns 2018 2nd rounder? If so that is a valuable pick.
Knicks have the worst luck..  
Keith : 2/8/2018 3:01 pm : link
A few years ago, they finally put themselves in a position to have cap space and the cap goes up like 50M and every team in the league has space.

Now we finally have some pieces to sell and 25 teams are looking to dump guys and its a buyers market.

#knicksluck
KOQ tweet to Mudiay 😂  
Canton : 2/8/2018 3:02 pm : link
Quote:
@emmanuelmudiay do you cut backdoor?? 😂 Ill explain later. See you soon G.


KOQ will miss his backdoor pass if Mudiay isn't a cutter lol
Mudiay  
Modus Operandi : 2/8/2018 3:04 pm : link
Is actually pretty darn good in the paint.
New York's guards currently on roster  
Canton : 2/8/2018 3:06 pm : link
Jarrett Jack, Frank Ntilikina, Trey Burke, Emmanuel Mudiay, Tim Hardaway Jr., Courtney Lee.
having lee still here is a mess for....  
Italianju : 2/8/2018 3:13 pm : link
us. I mean id like to think that we will find a way to get all the kids minutes but i know we wont. I mean Lee can just be a full time SF now. That still gives you minutes for Mudiay/Burke at PG and THJR/Frank at SG, but im sure we will need to get Lance 20 minutes at SF so Lee will cut into the SG minutes. And of course we prolly wont release Jack so he can eat up 20 minutes a night for a team going nowhere.
RE: RE: I think both Mudiay and Frank  
Modus Operandi : 2/8/2018 3:14 pm : link
Quote:
Not with Jarrett Jack still on the roster


I like Jack. Nice vet who's had a nice career. But he's going to be 35 to start next season and is signed only through next season.

I think he's a goner and they'll start the year with Mudiay, Frank and Burke.
Very disappointing  
TheMick7 : 2/8/2018 3:15 pm : link
Knicks traded 2 guys they should have kept(although McBuckets for Mudiay is intriguing) Didn't move any of the guys that needed to be moved But,Perry did get his precious #2 picks
RE: New York's guards currently on roster  
TheMick7 : 2/8/2018 3:16 pm : link
In comment 13826876 Canton said:
Quote:
Jarrett Jack, Frank Ntilikina, Trey Burke, Emmanuel Mudiay, Tim Hardaway Jr., Courtney Lee.


Dotson,Baker
u keep seeing...  
Italianju : 2/8/2018 3:17 pm : link
reporters say the knicks got interest in KOQ but did not like the offers. What the hell? Unless the offer was a third round pick you take it. He isnt going to be on the team in a couple months and you get nothing for him.
RE: having lee still here is a mess for....  
TheMick7 : 2/8/2018 3:22 pm : link
In comment 13826890 Italianju said:
Quote:
us. I mean id like to think that we will find a way to get all the kids minutes but i know we wont. I mean Lee can just be a full time SF now. That still gives you minutes for Mudiay/Burke at PG and THJR/Frank at SG, but im sure we will need to get Lance 20 minutes at SF so Lee will cut into the SG minutes. And of course we prolly wont release Jack so he can eat up 20 minutes a night for a team going nowhere.


Hornacek will continue to play the vets unless Perry/Mills
mandate PT for younger guys. Can't believe a playoff team wouldn't want Jacks as a backup PG/KOQ as a backup C/PF/Lee as a SG Would love to know what the offers were! Luckily,Hornacek finds new ways to lose so even w/the vets he'll fuck it up!
RE: Very disappointing  
Modus Operandi : 2/8/2018 3:26 pm : link
In comment 13826896 TheMick7 said:
Quote:
Knicks traded 2 guys they should have kept(although McBuckets for Mudiay is intriguing) Didn't move any of the guys that needed to be moved But,Perry did get his precious #2 picks


Jokic was a middle second round pick. As were Manu Ginobli, Millsap, Kukoc, M. Gasol, Dragic, P. Beverly, D. Green, Whiteside, etc.

Loading up on 2s, absent the ability or assets to acquire firsts is smart.
RE: RE: Very disappointing  
TheMick7 : 2/8/2018 3:33 pm : link
In comment 13826923 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:
In comment 13826896 TheMick7 said:


Quote:


Knicks traded 2 guys they should have kept(although McBuckets for Mudiay is intriguing) Didn't move any of the guys that needed to be moved But,Perry did get his precious #2 picks



Jokic was a middle second round pick. As were Manu Ginobli, Millsap, Kukoc, M. Gasol, Dragic, P. Beverly, D. Green, Whiteside, etc.

Loading up on 2s, absent the ability or assets to acquire firsts is smart.


So you've listed 10 players over how many years who were #2's? It's a crap shoot at best Take all those years of those players & list all the #2's that never amounted to anything!
How to handle Noah?  
arniefez : 2/8/2018 3:35 pm : link
That's really a question? You leave him home until Hornacek is fired the day after the season ends and then he comes back next year as an expiring contract nailed to the bench unless he has some trade value at some point. A year from today he gets released if he isn't traded. Not really that difficult.
RE: RE: Very disappointing  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2018 3:40 pm : link
In comment 13826923 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:
In comment 13826896 TheMick7 said:


Quote:


Knicks traded 2 guys they should have kept(although McBuckets for Mudiay is intriguing) Didn't move any of the guys that needed to be moved But,Perry did get his precious #2 picks



Jokic was a middle second round pick. As were Manu Ginobli, Millsap, Kukoc, M. Gasol, Dragic, P. Beverly, D. Green, Whiteside, etc.

Loading up on 2s, absent the ability or assets to acquire firsts is smart.


MO,
A guy on reddit did a comprehensive study of the 15 drafts through 2015 and basically found that if you don't have a top 5 pick of the second round the odds are very, very long.
RE: RE: RE: Very disappointing  
Modus Operandi : 2/8/2018 3:42 pm : link
Quote:
So you've listed 10 players over how many years who were #2's? It's a crap shoot at best Take all those years of those players & list all the #2's that never amounted to anything!


You miss my point. Having a pick is no assurance that you get a good player. It does offer you the flexobility to grab a guy with interesting skills who fell out of the first. There are guys like those in every draft. Just gotta find them. That's why you pay scouts.

Not sure why you're complaining about having picks. Especially since we're giving up virtually nothing to acquire them.
Dan  
Modus Operandi : 2/8/2018 3:49 pm : link
I don't deny that they're long. But it's possible. And outside of unloading real assets (like Frank or KP), or taking on bad contracts, I don't know how else you're going to acquire first round picks.

Mcbuckets/Lee/KOQ aren't/weren't going land those types of picks. I don't care what's bandied about on this board.

Grab what picks you can and draft young players with athleticism. You never know when those picks will come in handy.

RE: RE: RE: RE: Very disappointing  
TheMick7 : 2/8/2018 3:59 pm : link
In comment 13826960 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:


Quote:


So you've listed 10 players over how many years who were #2's? It's a crap shoot at best Take all those years of those players & list all the #2's that never amounted to anything!



You miss my point. Having a pick is no assurance that you get a good player. It does offer you the flexobility to grab a guy with interesting skills who fell out of the first. There are guys like those in every draft. Just gotta find them. That's why you pay scouts.

Not sure why you're complaining about having picks. Especially since we're giving up virtually nothing to acquire them.


No,I didn't miss your point. When you listen to Perry yesterday,he was almost drooling about getting the 2020,2021 #2 picks because the Knicks had traded those years away. Problem is,he traded away a kid who was 23,all rookie team,great contract for those picks. Hornacek has had a hard-on for the kid all year & used the "we have 4 centers"(really it was 3) as an excuse to not play him. Now with KP down & minutes available,Perry trades him for 2 #2's that won't play this year,next year or the following year. And,by next year,Hornacek will only be a bad memory. Second round picks are bought every year at the draft so Perry could have replenished his supply with Dolan's $$$. Willy was part of the future promotions all summer after a nice first season. His complete fall from grace is really unexplainable-I don't believe Hornacek's BS! So I don't agree with your statement "we're giving up virtually nothing to acquire them" We gave up a 23 year old who showed potential & with the KP situation,could have improved his stock-either to remain a Knick or increase his trade value. It takes virtually nothing to get a second round pick (Dolan's $$$$),so why give up a young asset?
Yes  
Modus Operandi : 2/8/2018 4:05 pm : link
Willy was such a phenomenal prospect that he couldn't get on to the court. Maybe he just wasn't very good?
Listen I said in another thread before  
Carl in CT : 2/8/2018 4:07 pm : link
Only 2.4% of second rounders become all stars. You need major luck.
And btw  
Modus Operandi : 2/8/2018 4:08 pm : link
Draft picks aren't bought and sold all the time. Maybe years ago, that was the case. To buy a pick, you'd have to find a team that's willing to sell it to you.
RE: Yes  
TheMick7 : 2/8/2018 4:13 pm : link
In comment 13827012 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:
Willy was such a phenomenal prospect that he couldn't get on to the court. Maybe he just wasn't very good?


<Maybe...but it's hard to tell when you don't get PT after showing you were pretty good the previous year!
The odds are probably greater of drafting an all star  
arniefez : 2/8/2018 4:13 pm : link
with those picks than Perry actually making them for the Knicks. The Knicks are pretty much the Browns of the NBA.
Tank Season  
TyreeHelmet : 2/8/2018 4:13 pm : link
No we at least now the value of the Knicks vets around the league - zero. Such more for those draft picks for KOQ/ Lee.

Another year, another tankathon to end a season. Knicks have 26 games left. Anything can happen in the NBA, especially in March/April, but I can only see 3 games the Knicks will be favored- home against Dallas, Orlando,Chicago. And even those are iffy. They may be the worst team in the league without KP.

They are 4.5 games out of picking in the top 5. Brooklyn and the Lakers are between them who have zero incentive to tank. I really hope the Knicks play it smart and do everything possible to get a high draft pick. The 4th spot should be the goal- 42% at top 3 and 13.7% at number 1.
RE: And btw  
TheMick7 : 2/8/2018 4:14 pm : link
In comment 13827014 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:
Draft picks aren't bought and sold all the time. Maybe years ago, that was the case. To buy a pick, you'd have to find a team that's willing to sell it to you.

Makes sense,can't buy w/o a seller Luckily,there are always teams looking to sell on draft night!
RE: RE: Yes  
Modus Operandi : 2/8/2018 4:18 pm : link
I get that everyone wants to see the young guys play. But sometimes those young guys haven't made the strides to earn playing time. It wasn't like Willy was an unknown. Until about last week, the team still had eyes on making the playoffs. Our star certainly did.

I ask again, apart from dealing Frank/KP to acquire talent and/or firsts, you're going to upgrade the roster how? We aren't the Lakers. Teams aren't falling over themselves to give us young phenoms.

The key to this season is the Tank  
RAIN : 2/8/2018 4:26 pm : link
,we need to get to the top five in order to get a guy that moves the needle. We should be there without Porz.

Courtney Lee should have been sold to the highest bidder to ensure that reality, and make time to play Frank, Dot, and Burke more. Now we have Mudiay. I wonder if he's there to be role model for the younger guards.

Jack should really be a player/coach at this point.
I'm glad we got Mudiay.  
PaulBlakeTSU : 2/8/2018 4:28 pm : link
The KNicks have had among the worst starting point guards in the league for what seems to be a decade (notwithstanding one good season of Felton under D'Antoni). Otherwise it has been Douglas, Duhon, Calderon, old Kidd, old Baron Davis, rookie SHumpert, Shane Larkin, rookie Jerian Grant, old Jack, and rookie Frank.

This is a guard's league. Mudiay is still really young and was a lottery pick because of his athleticism. Might as well take a flyer on him even if it cost McDermott.

I loved watching Doug play, but he doesn't fit into the team's plan.
RE: And btw  
TyreeHelmet : 2/8/2018 4:32 pm : link
In comment 13827014 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:
Draft picks aren't bought and sold all the time. Maybe years ago, that was the case. To buy a pick, you'd have to find a team that's willing to sell it to you.


Happened last year with Jordan Bell 38th overall. Also 39th pick was sold for cash. 4 2nd round picks were traded for cash last year alone. These are the types of moves the Knicks should be making.
Good deal  
Vanzetti : 2/8/2018 4:37 pm : link
Knicks finally have a real GM

Mudiay's advanced stats have all increased each year (per 36 m, per 100 Poss, PER and WS/48)

He probably won't ever be anything but a backup. But considering McBuckets was a throw-in in the Melo deal, this trade does not really have much downside.

RE: The key to this season is the Tank  
Vanzetti : 2/8/2018 4:40 pm : link
In comment 13827039 RAIN said:
Quote:
,we need to get to the top five in order to get a guy that moves the needle. We should be there without Porz.

Courtney Lee should have been sold to the highest bidder to ensure that reality, and make time to play Frank, Dot, and Burke more. Now we have Mudiay. I wonder if he's there to be role model for the younger guards.

Jack should really be a player/coach at this point.


Looking at the standings, number five is probably a stretch. More likely to be #8. But maybe they get lucky and get the #1 pick :))))
RE: RE: RE: Yes  
TheMick7 : 2/8/2018 4:45 pm : link
In comment 13827030 Modus Operandi said:
[quote] I get that everyone wants to see the young guys play. But sometimes those young guys haven't made the strides to earn playing time. It wasn't like Willy was an unknown. Until about last week, the team still had eyes on making the playoffs. Our star certainly did.

I ask again, apart from dealing Frank/KP to acquire talent and/or firsts, you're going to upgrade the roster how? We aren't the Lakers. Teams aren't falling over themselves to give us young phenoms.
[/quote

We seem to be on different pages I don't disagree that second round draft picks give us a chance to improve, even though the chance is small. The Willy situation was handled very strangely & the explanations for his lack of PT even stranger. Today,Alan Hahn (who sadly has become a lackey for management) said that there were issues w/Willy-he didn't want to go to the G-league & was disrespectful. Every thing we've read & seen about this kid tells us that couldn't be farther from the truth. Seems management saw the negative feedback yesterday & was putting out a narrative to justify the move.Your argument is about using picks to acquire talent & I agree.That's what the Knicks did to acquire Willy! So it's sad when you trade away a 23 year old asset. He may prove he wan't as good as we saw last year-then again he might.I would just have liked the opportunity to see what happens in the last 26 games of the season w/him as a Knick. Maybe this second round pick becomes a player with a future!
Sometimes you have to get lucky.  
Dave on the UWS : 2/8/2018 4:50 pm : link
Acquiring talent is the key. The Knicks now have two lottery picks from KP's draft and Mudiay is only 21. I can see him and Frankie playing together labels should be irrelevant. It's up to coaching to develop these two into a winning backcourt. Get a potential star SF in the draft. At this point I would have KOQ as my starting C next year (primarily for defense, toughness and rebounding). They're not winning anything with Kanter. He's not athletic enough in today's NBA to win with. This would move the team along towards becoming legitimately contenders.
If Mudiay  
ajr2456 : 2/8/2018 4:53 pm : link
can become a solid player off the bench that will be huge would leave you in 2019 with:

Starters:
Frank
THJr
KP
2018 pick

Bench:
Mudiay
Dotson
2018 Bulls 2nd

then plus a 2019 pick that should be rather high, $40 million in cap space, plus whatever they get in a Courtney Lee deal.

The Knicks could realistically have a starting lineup of

Frank
THJr
Reddish
Bagley
KP

with Dotson, Mudiay, a couple of second rounders and the ability to sign a max SG and move THJr to 6th man.
Knicks will win more than a few games down the stretch  
djm : 2/8/2018 5:03 pm : link
Beasley is going to go wild here now that he's starting. Knicks will find a way to win games they don't want to win. It's how they roll. Can't blame them but it sucks.

Only way I want to see the Knicks winning is it frank, mudiay or Burke establish themselves as building blocks along the way.
it's funny  
Greg from LI : 2/8/2018 5:13 pm : link
The biggest knock on Mudiay has always been his shot. And yet, in 2018....

Mudiay - 40.1% FG%, 37.3 3PT%

Alleged "shooting guard", the 71 Million Dollar Man Tim Hardaway - 41.1% FG%, 31.9 3PT%
What a collection of stiffs we have.  
bceagle05 : 2/8/2018 5:38 pm : link
It'll take a whole lot of losses to get into the top six or so of the lottery, but this crew may be up for it.
I suggested back in September after the Melo  
Earl the goat : 2/8/2018 5:52 pm : link
Trade that this whole year should be about the TANK and getting slaty cap friendly
By KP getting hurt(and by no means am I suggesting this is a good thing)that this expedited the TANK and now the Knicks can get a legitimate star in this years lottery rich draft
Hopefully KP will come back healthy and the 2019-20 season can be the start of something big
Kyrie and Kawhi are FAs and with KP healthy and this years lottery and possibly 2019 lottery this team will have lots of talent
Lee and Thomas contract need to come off the books before their last year and Noah can always be stretched to become cap friendly to sign them
Unfortunately us fans need to suffer another two years
Fire Hirnacek and Rambis
What I like about the aquisition of Mudiay is:  
81_Great_Dane : 2/8/2018 5:53 pm : link
He seems to be improving and could improve a lot more. If things work out, he's an asset, and the price to get him was negligible.

Right now the Knicks don't need to worry about having a logjam at point guard, they need to worry about acquiring assets -- about getting more, younger, better guys with potential upside.

Mudiay and Frank can compete with each other, and let the best man win. If they're both good enough they can either play together or one can be traded. Same with Burke.

With the addition of Mudiay and Burke the Knicks now have a collection of talented young guards who seem to be on the upswing. Mudiay and Burke were highly rated prospects when drafted. They're still young. Will that group win a lot of games this season? Probably not. But they provide a base to deal from.
THe Knicks are  
PaulBlakeTSU : 2/8/2018 6:02 pm : link
1-6 without Porzingis this year. If they can maintain that losing percentage, it would mean 26.9 wins.

If all other teams maintain their winning percentage, the Knicks would end up with the 6th worst record in the League.

That would give the Knicks a 21.5% shot at a Top-3 pick and 43.9% chance at the #6 pick.

Just by moving up to 5th, it raises to 29.2% at Top-3 and a 26% shot at the #5 pick.

Moving up to 4th, it raises to 37.8% at Top 3, 9.9% at #4, and 35.1% at #5


Unfortunately the Knicks have a 5-game lead on 4th worst team because this franchise is a fucking disaster and can't do anything right.
Fortunately  
Jon in NYC : 2/8/2018 6:09 pm : link
for us, it's a draft heavy on Cs and SFs, which is what we need.
I actually kind of like getting Mudiay for nothing  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/8/2018 6:13 pm : link
McBuckets is nice but certainly not untradeable by any measure.
Mudiay  
TyreeHelmet : 2/8/2018 6:17 pm : link
People need to temper their expectations. He's been really bad.
I forgot Burke was a lottery pick too  
Dave on the UWS : 2/8/2018 6:31 pm : link
They are doing the right thing keep acquiring athletic talent with potential. If only one of these guys blossoms what a coup that will be. This is a different approach then has been used here for a long time. And Willie was a second rounder for a reason. He scored and rebounded but maybe never showed he can play next to KP.
Tyree  
Dave on the UWS : 2/8/2018 6:35 pm : link
He's 21 yrs old was asked to run the team at 19. Other than LBJ hoe often does that work out? He's healthy and has improved statistically every year. A more nurturing environment (and learning to play some defense), may be just what the doctor ordered.
If nothing this, this is the most attention paid to the PG situation  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/8/2018 6:48 pm : link
by the Knicks front office in like three decades.
How many years can the Knicks  
mattyblue : 2/8/2018 6:58 pm : link
tank and not get any better? What a terrible product Dolan has allowed the Knicks to become. I know its probably all his fault, but still at least the Browns have hope and have a chance at getting better it seems like we are completely cursed. What is the concern level of a guy KP size and build successfully coming back from an ACL? I am not try to infer anything but that I am legitimately asking if there is concern he wont be able to return to form?
Back in the draft  
Jay on the Island : 2/8/2018 7:12 pm : link
I was one of the guys who wanted Mudiay at 4 over Porzingis. I am happy to admit that I was wrong but I am very happy that the Knicks have at least taken a chance on Mudiay especially for that price. He is still very young and we all know that he is a great athlete. Hopefully a change of scenery and more playing is just what this kid needed.
I wanted mudiay as well  
nygiants16 : 2/8/2018 7:31 pm : link
I had info that mudiay was going to be the pick so I was disappointed when he wasnt..

I just hope hornacek doesn't fuck this up and play jack 30 minutes a night while mudiay burke and ntlikina sit on the bench...

After tonight jack can not be the starter, it is absolutely pointless
RE: How many years can the Knicks  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/8/2018 9:07 pm : link
In comment 13827154 mattyblue said:
Quote:
tank and not get any better?


They haven't been tanking. They're this bad without trying to be this bad, lol.
RE: RE: How many years can the Knicks  
nygiants16 : 2/8/2018 9:36 pm : link
In comment 13827217 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13827154 mattyblue said:


Quote:


tank and not get any better?



They haven't been tanking. They're this bad without trying to be this bad, lol.


Kp injury aside probably best thing that could happen, kp hopefully will come back to a young team with a top pick
Kornet surprised me tonight.  
JustaDiscussion : 2/8/2018 9:42 pm : link
I didn't expect anything from him. On the other hand, Hicks did not play up to his G-league stats. If Kornet can develop into a decent backup I think he and KP would make a good tandem at the five. The Knicks would just need to get some 3s and 4s on the roster. I hope the Knicks figure out a way to flip Kanter like they did with McDermott.
RE: Kornet surprised me tonight.  
ajr2456 : 2/8/2018 9:48 pm : link
In comment 13827242 JustaDiscussion said:
Quote:
I didn't expect anything from him. On the other hand, Hicks did not play up to his G-league stats. If Kornet can develop into a decent backup I think he and KP would make a good tandem at the five. The Knicks would just need to get some 3s and 4s on the roster. I hope the Knicks figure out a way to flip Kanter like they did with McDermott.


Kornet's skill set is a better fit than Willy's. We'll see if this was just a mirage.
Can we trade  
bceagle05 : 2/8/2018 9:51 pm : link
our NBA coaching staff for our G-League coaching staff?
Luke Kornet 11 points 10 rebounds and 4 blocks  
Canton : 2/8/2018 11:28 pm : link
Double double for an NBA debut. Not to shabby.

Quote:
Luke Kornet blocks a 4th shot, which means he becomes the first and only player in NBA history at least 4 blocks and three 3-pointers in his first career game. He also had 11 points and 10 boards. Hes the first Knick rookie w/ a double-double in debut since John Wallace in 1996
Kornet  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2018 11:30 pm : link
also flashed in the G-League. I was pretty impressed, he could be an NBA asset if he can provide semi passable D
RE: Kornet  
Jim in Fairfax : 2/8/2018 11:32 pm : link
In comment 13827277 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
also flashed in the G-League. I was pretty impressed, he could be an NBA asset if he can provide semi passable D


3 and D center perfect for the new NBA.
I  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2018 11:36 pm : link
watched parts of more G league games than I want to admit. It's a tough league to really judge but Burke and Kornet really did standout. I've fallen for some Gleague guys before that just didnt ave it but who knows
Luke Kornet highlights  
Canton : 2/8/2018 11:55 pm : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: How many years can the Knicks  
mattyblue : 2/9/2018 1:42 am : link
In comment 13827217 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13827154 mattyblue said:


Quote:


tank and not get any better?



They haven't been tanking. They're this bad without trying to be this bad, lol.



Hahahaha well said TTH
RE: I  
Heisenberg : 2/9/2018 8:39 am : link
In comment 13827282 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
watched parts of more G league games than I want to admit. It's a tough league to really judge but Burke and Kornet really did standout. I've fallen for some Gleague guys before that just didnt ave it but who knows


Me too. I always thought that Kornet had a chance because the 3 pt range is for real and he's very active on both offense and defense. You can see how the spacing changes on the floor when he's out there.

I definitely wanted them to bring him up and give him a chance, I just thought it would be after KOQ got traded instead of Willy.

I'd like Nigel Hayes to get a chance. His shooting really seems to be improved and he's definitely an NBA athlete. He has a chance to be a legit bench guy.
Knicks should  
nygiants16 : 2/9/2018 8:52 am : link
Release jack so he can sign on to a playoff team, if not he shouldn't play, no reason he should play with 3 young point guards...

Sign kornet and hicks to rest of the year contracts..

Sign Hayes and Mayes to 2 way contracts..

Rotation should be

Mudiay/burke
Thjr/Frank
Lee
Beasley/hicks
Kanter/kornet

I would prefer Lee wouldn't play but he is the only small forward on the roster besides Thomas and well no
Kornet looked good.  
Keith : 2/9/2018 9:13 am : link
Hopefully some of these "long shots" like Kornet, Burke, Dotson and whoever else we find, could be back of the rotation players for us when we are actually ready to win some games.
On  
DanMetroMan : 2/9/2018 9:15 am : link
the same note I have to be honest (and this isn't about last night) Hicks in the Gleague reminded me a lot of the guys I would previously like but just not be quite NBA players. I'd love to be wrong.
RE: On  
nygiants16 : 2/9/2018 9:24 am : link
In comment 13827382 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
the same note I have to be honest (and this isn't about last night) Hicks in the Gleague reminded me a lot of the guys I would previously like but just not be quite NBA players. I'd love to be wrong.


He looks like he still has some baby fat, he also looked hesitant, kornet on the other hand fired away..
RE: RE: I  
TheMick7 : 2/9/2018 9:31 am : link
In comment 13827352 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
In comment 13827282 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:



I'd like Nigel Hayes to get a chance. His shooting really seems to be improved and he's definitely an NBA athlete. He has a chance to be a legit bench guy.


Hayes signed w/the Lakers
RE: RE: RE: I  
nygiants16 : 2/9/2018 9:38 am : link
In comment 13827398 TheMick7 said:
Quote:
In comment 13827352 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


In comment 13827282 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:



I'd like Nigel Hayes to get a chance. His shooting really seems to be improved and he's definitely an NBA athlete. He has a chance to be a legit bench guy.



Hayes signed w/the Lakers


Signed 10 day, waz not signed to second 10 day, he is back with Westchester knickz
Luke Kornet was the third-best player on a mediocre college team  
Greg from LI : 2/9/2018 9:39 am : link
I'll be stunned if he turns out to be anything but fodder in the long run
RE: Luke Kornet was the third-best player on a mediocre college team  
DanMetroMan : 2/9/2018 9:44 am : link
In comment 13827406 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
I'll be stunned if he turns out to be anything but fodder in the long run


Weird thing about Kornet was 2 years ago he shot the 3 ball really well, which was what Fran Frascila pointed to when praising the Knicks adding him, then for 2 years didn't shoot so well but when I saw him in the G league and summer league his shot looked pure. I'm NOT saying he's some future stud but I do think he could be an NBA player.
at least now  
djm : 2/9/2018 10:47 am : link
KP can't bitch or become disenchanted with the Knicks when they suck copious amounts of ball-sack the next year and a half.

So here's the fucking plan. . Play the kids here for the rest of the season. Try like hell to win, nothing wrong with that, but they won't win much. Win 4-6 games tops--probably 4 but most important is get Frank, Mudiay, Burke and anyone else that is young as much burn as possible. Then, the night before the lottery, sacrifice a goat, a chicken and if no one is looking a homeless person or do exactly the opposite of whatever this shit franchise has done the last 25 years or so. Make the pick. Develop the pick. Nurture the pick. Try like hell in 2018-2019 but focus on youth and development. Bring KP along slowly. Even slower than slowly. Get KP back into game mode by the spring of next season and once again, do whatever is needed to gain ground on the nba lottery. Make that pick. Develop and nurture that pick. Summer of 2019 and Presto.... Four-five young athletic players in the fold along with KP. Spend wisely.

It's so simple even if it's a painful 500 day stretch. DON'T FUCK THIS UP!

They will.
It sucks when it takes us 500 days  
Carl in CT : 2/9/2018 10:55 am : link
And Cleveland gets younger in an hour. Knicks piss me off.
It sucks when it takes us 500 days  
Carl in CT : 2/9/2018 10:56 am : link
And Cleveland gets younger in an hour. Knicks piss me off.
RE: It sucks when it takes us 500 days  
nygiants16 : 2/9/2018 11:04 am : link
In comment 13827506 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
And Cleveland gets younger in an hour. Knicks piss me off.


You realize Knicks are one of the youngest team's in the nba right?
He's not gonna be a starter, but Kornet definitely has a chance  
Heisenberg : 2/9/2018 11:07 am : link
to be a bench stretch 5. He's a smart kid who plays hard, does a good job of taking up space and is sneaky quick out there. He moves his feet and is pretty sound defensively.

nice breakdown of some decent PnR defense - ( New Window )
16  
Carl in CT : 2/9/2018 11:26 am : link
Yup we are. Also moved into #9 place on the Tank A Thon last night with the Laker win and our loss. Still a way to go.
Keep Jack  
PaulBlakeTSU : 2/9/2018 11:52 am : link
as a vet presence. Good mentor for the youngsters. I want Frank and Mudiay to get reps and develop, but I also want the Knicks to lose every game the rest of the season, so if that means playing Jack all game, I'm for it.
RE: It sucks when it takes us 500 days  
ajr2456 : 2/9/2018 12:24 pm : link
In comment 13827507 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
And Cleveland gets younger in an hour. Knicks piss me off.


Cleveland added a bunch of averageish players, and if Lebron leaves they'll likely toil in mediocrity for a few years.
Frank, Mudiay, Burke and Dotson  
GiantJake : 2/9/2018 12:41 pm : link
These guys should all play as many minutes as possible. Why not? Hell, play Frank and Mudiay together and flip flop them so they each get time as the 2. When Frank is at the 2, drill it into his head that he is to go out and try to score. Shoot the damn ball. Dotson's development also needs to be prioritized. He can score and play some defense. Time to learn with the big boys. I am not a fan of tanking, but the Knicks really need to move up in the lottery to ensure they get a good player in the draft. Lord knows that they can't count on a lucky bounce of the ping pong ball.
RE: RE: It sucks when it takes us 500 days  
Pep22 : 2/9/2018 1:25 pm : link
In comment 13827610 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13827507 Carl in CT said:


Quote:


And Cleveland gets younger in an hour. Knicks piss me off.



Cleveland added a bunch of averageish players, and if Lebron leaves they'll likely toil in mediocrity for a few years.


They added good, young, athletic, high IQ players, none with bad contracts --- I don't know how anybody can criticize what they did.
RE: RE: RE: It sucks when it takes us 500 days  
ajr2456 : 2/9/2018 1:47 pm : link
In comment 13827673 Pep22 said:
Quote:
In comment 13827610 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 13827507 Carl in CT said:


Quote:


And Cleveland gets younger in an hour. Knicks piss me off.



Cleveland added a bunch of averageish players, and if Lebron leaves they'll likely toil in mediocrity for a few years.



They added good, young, athletic, high IQ players, none with bad contracts --- I don't know how anybody can criticize what they did.


They were good trades, but I don't think it helps them beat the Warriors.

It's a very good trade if Lebron stays, but if he leaves they are a very average basketball team. Not bad enough to tank, not good enough to be a top 5 seed.

How good or bad this trade was all depends on Lebron.
How  
DanMetroMan : 2/9/2018 1:53 pm : link
does the FO not tell Hornacek to play Dotson etc at this point?
I always thought that the playing time after the deadline may be much  
Heisenberg : 2/9/2018 2:11 pm : link
different than before. Before, there's a credible argument to showcase vets. Now? No excuse to not play the young guys and see what you have.
RE: How  
nygiants16 : 2/9/2018 2:17 pm : link
In comment 13827724 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
does the FO not tell Hornacek to play Dotson etc at this point?


Dotson should get all of Thomas minutes as the backup 3...

Jack should no longer pkay, Breen mentioned this yesterday saying how jack will not have any minutes but I think he was just assuming...

We all know this won't happen. Though
Has  
DanMetroMan : 2/9/2018 2:44 pm : link
this Jeffries/Mudiay piece been posted yet? If not great read
Link - ( New Window )
generally, I couldn't care less about the Nets  
Greg from LI : 2/9/2018 3:50 pm : link
But it's so awesome to see Joe Harris establish himself as a quality NBA player for them. He deserves it - great guy and as hard a worker as there is in the league.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Has  
nygiants16 : 2/9/2018 3:55 pm : link
In comment 13827804 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
this Jeffries/Mudiay piece been posted yet? If not great read Link - ( New Window )


I really hope hornacek is smart enough not to keep starting jack and give the minutes to the 3 young points..

Mudiay should start with Frank and burke getting the backup 1 and 2 spots
Management  
Pete44 : 2/9/2018 3:59 pm : link
Management should be telling Hornaceck that his job depends on the development of the young players, not wins and losses.
RE: Management  
nygiants16 : 2/9/2018 4:00 pm : link
In comment 13827878 Pete44 said:
Quote:
Management should be telling Hornaceck that his job depends on the development of the young players, not wins and losses.


He shouldn't need management to tell him, the team is not making the playoffs, jack is useless, even if he was trying to win mudiay is a better player
Made the mistake of flipping on Michael Kay during my lunch break.  
bceagle05 : 2/9/2018 4:06 pm : link
Apparently the Mudiay trade means the front office doesn't think Ntilikina deserves to play and Phil Jackson "wasted" that valuable asset. I know people will say their job is to rile people up and be trolls, but I actually think Michael Kay is just that stupid. It's not shtick.

Doug McDermott is the ninth or tenth man in our rotation and a restricted free agent at season's end - we flipped him for a former lottery pick who our scouts probably liked.
Jeffries makes a great point about shooting vs. finishing  
Heisenberg : 2/9/2018 4:08 pm : link
I think it's also shot selection. more than half his 2 ptrs are from mid range. He can't play that way. He's gotta do the Rockets style of every thing within 5 feet or beyond the arc.

But, Hornacek will love letting him play midrange because that's how his offense works.
RE: Made the mistake of flipping on Michael Kay during my lunch break.  
nygiants16 : 2/9/2018 4:14 pm : link
In comment 13827889 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
Apparently the Mudiay trade means the front office doesn't think Ntilikina deserves to play and Phil Jackson "wasted" that valuable asset. I know people will say their job is to rile people up and be trolls, but I actually think Michael Kay is just that stupid. It's not shtick.

Doug McDermott is the ninth or tenth man in our rotation and a restricted free agent at season's end - we flipped him for a former lottery pick who our scouts probably liked.


Michael Kay hates Phil Jackson, absolutely despises him...

He also has no idea what he is talking about, he once said if a NBA player misses a game if he doesn't miss the next game after that he is faking
Michael Kay's radio show is terrible.  
Heisenberg : 2/9/2018 4:25 pm : link
I can't listen to him talk about anything but the Yankees and baseball. He's lost in other sports. And I'm a Yankee fan who's predisposed to like the guy as I enjoy him on YES.
RE: RE: Management  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/9/2018 4:29 pm : link
In comment 13827880 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13827878 Pete44 said:


Quote:


Management should be telling Hornaceck that his job depends on the development of the young players, not wins and losses.



He shouldn't need management to tell him, the team is not making the playoffs


What are you talking about? Of course it's not his decision to make. In what other sport are you okay with the coach deciding when it's time to stop trying to win games?
Jeffries  
DanMetroMan : 2/9/2018 4:30 pm : link
sounds like the kind of guy we should look into sniping from Rick Fox's company
RE: RE: RE: Management  
nygiants16 : 2/9/2018 4:33 pm : link
In comment 13827918 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13827880 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 13827878 Pete44 said:


Quote:


Management should be telling Hornaceck that his job depends on the development of the young players, not wins and losses.



He shouldn't need management to tell him, the team is not making the playoffs



What are you talking about? Of course it's not his decision to make. In what other sport are you okay with the coach deciding when it's time to stop trying to win games?


Yeah rereading it you are right...

I just think it is obvious jack is done, he served his purprose
Anyone want to defend Hornacek after seeing this? lol  
DanMetroMan : 2/9/2018 4:38 pm : link
Yeah we need to stop with Jack and Lance already.  
bceagle05 : 2/9/2018 4:42 pm : link
Frank, Mudiay, Burke, Hardaway, Lee, Dotson should cover every minute at the 1/2/3 (I'm counting Beasley as a 4) for the remainder of the season.
Even if Knicks were trying to win  
nygiants16 : 2/9/2018 4:42 pm : link
I don't think jack should be starting..

Who are we kidding though, jack will start until the last week of the season
RE: Jeffries makes a great point about shooting vs. finishing  
Keith : 2/9/2018 4:47 pm : link
In comment 13827893 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
I think it's also shot selection. more than half his 2 ptrs are from mid range. He can't play that way. He's gotta do the Rockets style of every thing within 5 feet or beyond the arc.

But, Hornacek will love letting him play midrange because that's how his offense works.


The issue with that though....do players all of a sudden become good finishers? I feel like it's either an ability you have or dont have. Guy can become better shooters, but how does one become a better finisher?
RE: RE: Jeffries makes a great point about shooting vs. finishing  
DanMetroMan : 2/9/2018 4:55 pm : link
In comment 13827942 Keith said:
Quote:
In comment 13827893 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


I think it's also shot selection. more than half his 2 ptrs are from mid range. He can't play that way. He's gotta do the Rockets style of every thing within 5 feet or beyond the arc.

But, Hornacek will love letting him play midrange because that's how his offense works.



The issue with that though....do players all of a sudden become good finishers? I feel like it's either an ability you have or dont have. Guy can become better shooters, but how does one become a better finisher?


In theory maybe there are exercises you can do to improve.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Jeffries makes a great point about shooting vs. finishing  
nygiants16 : 2/9/2018 5:04 pm : link
In comment 13827942 Keith said:
Quote:
In comment 13827893 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


I think it's also shot selection. more than half his 2 ptrs are from mid range. He can't play that way. He's gotta do the Rockets style of every thing within 5 feet or beyond the arc.

But, Hornacek will love letting him play midrange because that's how his offense works.



The issue with that though....do players all of a sudden become good finishers? I feel like it's either an ability you have or dont have. Guy can become better shooters, but how does one become a better finisher?


I do think there is an art to what a guy like kyrie does at the rim..

I think what he can change is not forcing bad shots at the rim, if it is not there kick it out or find the roll guy..

Derrick rose people consider a good finisher but how many times did he miss at the rim because of him forcing the shot?

I think we have to look to see if he is a bad finisher like shunper was or is just taking bad shots? There is a difference you can fix someone taking bad shots
I also think mudiay tries to finesse to much  
nygiants16 : 2/9/2018 5:06 pm : link
He has the athleticism to play above the rim, I think he should use to more, get to the line where he is an 80 percent shooter...

I am not saying he can be westbrook but he needs to play angry when he attacks the rim
Yup Mudiay  
Carl in CT : 2/9/2018 5:22 pm : link
Was one of my guys like Mitchell and DSJ. Didnt know KP and sure as hell didnt want him. WTF do I know. Love me some PGs.
The two afternoon sports radio shows are terrible  
djm : 2/9/2018 8:02 pm : link
I go to one, curse loudly and shout how stupid that opinion or take was, then go to the other and do the same thing. Then I inevitably bounce back to Sirius and listen to stern repeats or NFL radio. I try to listen to both and can't. Both shows literally make me angry. Like David banner sports hulk angry....
RE: The two afternoon sports radio shows are terrible  
ajr2456 : 2/9/2018 8:24 pm : link
In comment 13828075 djm said:
Quote:
I go to one, curse loudly and shout how stupid that opinion or take was, then go to the other and do the same thing. Then I inevitably bounce back to Sirius and listen to stern repeats or NFL radio. I try to listen to both and can't. Both shows literally make me angry. Like David banner sports hulk angry....


They let the rapper play The Hulk?
Stuck at LAX, I watched Mavs-Lakers and  
Del Shofner : 2/11/2018 12:30 am : link
Dougie McB looked pretty good for Dallas.
RE: Stuck at LAX, I watched Mavs-Lakers and  
nygiants16 : 2/11/2018 7:30 am : link
In comment 13828925 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
Dougie McB looked pretty good for Dallas.


He played well at the beginning of the season and then December and January he played awful
I know Mudiay was touted as a great athlete, but I don't really see it  
Jim in Hoboken : 2/11/2018 11:33 am : link
thus far. He's more athletic than Frank for sure, but certainly not some jet-quick pogo stick. He's big for the position and smooth for sure.

Honestly I wanted him more than KP way back when, let's see how he gets used here. The Nuggets drafted Harris and Murray around the same time as well. Murray seems the most skilled and with the most "it" factor and Harris is solid, but it's kinda surprising Mudiay fell out of favor there so fast. It really isn't an exact science.
RE: Kornet  
djm : 2/11/2018 11:50 am : link
In comment 13827277 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
also flashed in the G-League. I was pretty impressed, he could be an NBA asset if he can provide semi passable D


You have to wonder if kornet's presence motivated the Knicks to deal off Gomez. I mean the guy comes up and plays very well in game one, better than Gomez ever did from a pure NBA needs pov.

We all hate how they handled Gomez but if kornett is a legit big it would help validate the Knicks intentions.
Kornet was shockingly agile on defense the other night.  
Jim in Hoboken : 2/11/2018 12:04 pm : link
He could really be an asset, of course Hornack will bench him for Noah.
Noah keeps getting told not to come back...  
manh george : 2/11/2018 12:52 pm : link
so I don't think that's a problem. He will be away "until further notice." (link)

Maybe the Knicks hope that his desire to actually play again will lead to a modest discount on a buyout if they keep him away but I think his playing time as a Knick is over in any event.

Now I wonder whether they re-sign Kanter and Beasley. Both, I suspect, badly want to stay and will give the Knicks a discount.

Then, if they get to draft one of the really talented 3s likely to be available in the 7-10 slot of the draft, I wonder if they trade Lee.

Link - ( New Window )
RE: Noah keeps getting told not to come back...  
nygiants16 : 2/11/2018 1:12 pm : link
In comment 13829104 manh george said:
Quote:
so I don't think that's a problem. He will be away "until further notice." (link)

Maybe the Knicks hope that his desire to actually play again will lead to a modest discount on a buyout if they keep him away but I think his playing time as a Knick is over in any event.

Now I wonder whether they re-sign Kanter and Beasley. Both, I suspect, badly want to stay and will give the Knicks a discount.

Then, if they get to draft one of the really talented 3s likely to be available in the 7-10 slot of the draft, I wonder if they trade Lee. Link - ( New Window )


I'd be shocked if kanter opted out...

If you can resign Beasley for a little less then mid level I would do it..

No way in hell does Kanter opt out  
djm : 2/11/2018 1:16 pm : link
He loves it here in NYC and won't get that much money on the open market even if it's just one year. He stays put for now.
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