Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

Archived Thread

GBN projection updated, extended 3 Rounds (Feb 8th)...

M.S. : 2/9/2018 6:14 am
...GBN notes that this projection is really about giving you, "...some idea (as to) what players are likely to be available at different spots in the draft." It's not about which precise player will go to which team in each round.

Giants go:

Round 1: Josh Rosen; QB; UCLA
Round 2: Will Hernandez; OG; UTEP
Round 3: Darius Leonard; LB; S.C. State

Link - ( New Window )
Four of the top six  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 2/9/2018 6:32 am : link
are QBs. Going to be a couple of very unhappy teams in two years.
Would love will in the second  
Tuckrule : 2/9/2018 6:34 am : link
Massive guard with shockingly quick feet. Whoís a better prospect price or Hernandez or is that a stupid question
RE: Would love will in the second  
Diver_Down : 2/9/2018 6:57 am : link
In comment 13827307 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
Massive guard with shockingly quick feet. Whoís a better prospect price or Hernandez or is that a stupid question


That is an either/or situation. From what I've read and seen, Price is an ideal center that can play guard. Hernandez is an ideal guard that can play center. We need talent and would be wise to take either if available. For me, I would take the Southern Border Wall. Hernandez is an unmovable mountain of a man that no one is getting around.
I'd say  
English Alaister : 2/9/2018 7:15 am : link
We shouldn't post the giants choices here as it may decrease his traffic. Colin is a big friend of the site and all round great guy so nosey on over to GBN and read it there and give him the traffic if you can guys.

Hernandez  
Mike in NY : 2/9/2018 7:17 am : link
Against better opponents he looked a little stiff for my liking. I would prefer using FA to boost our OL like Los Angeles Rams did and then we can use our 2nd Round pick on a pass rusher like Key or Landry or CB Jaire Alexander. To me Nelson and Wynn are the clear top OG (I see Price at C long term) and then you have a drop to a number of players who will grade out similarly
That seems like a reasonable draft for the Giants  
ZogZerg : 2/9/2018 7:20 am : link
At least those positions at those picks.
Like it  
jeff57 : 2/9/2018 7:26 am : link
Would prefer Josey Jewell in the third, but Leonard would be ok.
I understand that we need linebackers  
Reb8thVA : 2/9/2018 8:02 am : link
but I would probably focus both our 2nd and 3rd round picks on the OL and rely on FA to improve the linebacker corps. I think there is more LB talent in FA than there is OL talent available. I might take Cole or Miller in that situation.
RE: I understand that we need linebackers  
jeff57 : 2/9/2018 8:08 am : link
In comment 13827326 Reb8thVA said:
Quote:
but I would probably focus both our 2nd and 3rd round picks on the OL and rely on FA to improve the linebacker corps. I think there is more LB talent in FA than there is OL talent available. I might take Cole or Miller in that situation.


That's debatable. There are no equivalent LBs in talent to Solder and Norwell. But it might be deeper, especially in the interior.
RE: RE: Would love will in the second  
Jay in Toronto : 2/9/2018 8:10 am : link
In comment 13827309 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 13827307 Tuckrule said:


Quote:


Massive guard with shockingly quick feet. Whoís a better prospect price or Hernandez or is that a stupid question



That is an either/or situation. From what I've read and seen, Price is an ideal center that can play guard. Hernandez is an ideal guard that can play center. We need talent and would be wise to take either if available. For me, I would take the Southern Border Wall. Hernandez is an unmovable mountain of a man that no one is getting around.


Political?

;)
RE: RE: I understand that we need linebackers  
Reb8thVA : 2/9/2018 8:11 am : link
In comment 13827330 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 13827326 Reb8thVA said:


Quote:


but I would probably focus both our 2nd and 3rd round picks on the OL and rely on FA to improve the linebacker corps. I think there is more LB talent in FA than there is OL talent available. I might take Cole or Miller in that situation.



That's debatable. There are no equivalent LBs in talent to Solder and Norwell. But it might be deeper, especially in the interior.


I'm not sure that its a good idea to pay Solder $10 million a year. If they draft a QB in the first it might be good to build a line that will grow with him
RE: I'd say  
M.S. : 2/9/2018 9:34 am : link
In comment 13827311 English Alaister said:
Quote:
We shouldn't post the giants choices here as it may decrease his traffic. Colin is a big friend of the site and all round great guy so nosey on over to GBN and read it there and give him the traffic if you can guys.

English Alaister... I understand your point, and I mean no disrespect, but sometimes even a meager meal is better than none at all. After all, what sort of traffic would have GBN accrued had I not posted this link in the first place?"
Love this...  
ryanmkeane : 2/9/2018 9:42 am : link
Rosen and Hernandez are who I want in rounds 1-2
Positionally it's not crazy  
idiotsavant : 2/9/2018 10:10 am : link
But the Rd 3 pick probably is a poor match here at 6'2" 220 here.

Either get a -much- bigger great olb/sam/stud type prospect at 3 for

....or stay more ...or less in the 6'2" 220 range and draft an actual safety that covers. Rd 3 would be rational for that.and convert if need be or move Collins.

As opposed to an undersized olb who has trouble in coverage ...which is neither here nor there.
RE: RE: I'd say  
English Alaister : 2/9/2018 10:53 am : link
In comment 13827399 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 13827311 English Alaister said:


Quote:


We shouldn't post the giants choices here as it may decrease his traffic. Colin is a big friend of the site and all round great guy so nosey on over to GBN and read it there and give him the traffic if you can guys.



English Alaister... I understand your point, and I mean no disrespect, but sometimes even a meager meal is better than none at all. After all, what sort of traffic would have GBN accrued had I not posted this link in the first place?"


I think you did a good thing posting it for sure. Just maybe keep it to the first rounder or something.
Supposedly it's a very strong dback  
idiotsavant : 2/9/2018 10:57 am : link
Draft. Which could well push quality safeties of various types down to the third round.

Additionally. Looks the de/lb tweeners are (finally and deservedly in my view) pushed down out of round one.

So. You flip it and work the trends. Grab an actual legit playmaking big safety or a great true and large enough (260?) lb/de in round 3, as opposed to a uni-task player or smaller lb who might learn to cover.

That would be more a late round project.
RE: I'd say  
mrvax : 2/9/2018 11:28 am : link
In comment 13827311 English Alaister said:
Quote:
We shouldn't post the giants choices here as it may decrease his traffic. Colin is a big friend of the site and all round great guy so nosey on over to GBN and read it there and give him the traffic if you can guys.


I don't think so. It's common and usually acceptable to post a snapshot/tease and then provide a link. Most people reading this thread will click on it, increasing Colin's traffic. If Colin disagrees, he'd let Eric know and we'd be told to stop.
Poor Jets  
mrvax : 2/9/2018 11:29 am : link
those dumb bastids.
RE: RE: I'd say  
Section331 : 2/9/2018 11:58 am : link
In comment 13827399 M.S. said:
Quote:


English Alaister... I understand your point, and I mean no disrespect, but sometimes even a meager meal is better than none at all. After all, what sort of traffic would have GBN accrued had I not posted this link in the first place?"


Nothing wrong with how you handled it, thanks for posting.
Draft stuff  
Colin@gbn : 2/9/2018 12:41 pm : link
G'day guys: Just 76 days to go until the actual draft. Thanks for the plug M.S.; and thanks for the kind words and support Al. In fact, I'd hope people would check out the full mock because as we note in the intro that the real value of projections like these is not the particular players slotted to an individual team, but the range of players around your slot to get an idea of what kind of pool of players a team like the Giants will be looking at, especially past the opening round.

In the second, for example, my guess is that in a perfect world the Giants would be looking for an OT, especially one with the LT potentially, or an edge rusher, but the pickings are kind of slim at both so a big road grader like Hernandez who fills a huge need makes some sense, but one could also make a case for any number of other guys including ERs Key and Landry (if they check out medically), OT Crosby and RB Michel.

In the third, we really wanted to go ER and there were several good ones available including OLBs Turay and Nwosu (and Boise State's Vander Esch went just ahead of the Giants pick). The problem we have with the DE/OLB situation is that its just not clear whether the Giants are going to stick with the 4-3 or transition to a 3-4 and that will really impact what kind of player they will be looking for. In the end, though, Leonard is one of our very favorite players in the draft. He's actually 229 and can really run. He's also position versatile and can cover and is the kind athletic LBs teams are looking for who they can keep on the field when they go 4-2-5.

As well, because the Giants pick at the top of the 4th round we also get a bit of an idea who might be available early on the third day. And there are a lot of players who we did not have in our first three rounds including OTs Jamarco Jones and Brandon Parker, RBs Josh Adams, John Kelly and Kalen Ballage; CBs Duke Dawson, Kevin Toliver and Tony Brown, and DEs Jost Sweat, Duke Ejiofor, Jayln Holmes and Chad Thomas. Lot of talent there. Should be fun.
Oh.OK.  
idiotsavant : 2/9/2018 2:54 pm : link
I am not looking this year

- but someone else. Another prognosticator, said he couldn't cover or ' needs work' .

My 2 centavos. Look for PDs and INTs. otherwise it's an empty measure, speed. I haven't looked.

My guess. Look at pure value, and:

if in your scenario, 1 and 2 then within this pool at Rd 3:

(OLB/DE. ILB/SS. DT,NT)

and if there is a clear true value outlier at any of those, without any positional bias, draft him and adjust the D.

Don't really do this anymore  
idiotsavant : 2/9/2018 2:59 pm : link
But some of the pundits. They give more data than apparent if you read subtle hints they drop.

CBS was dead on for years. In the evals if not in the ranks. The evals tell.you what you need.and stats.and more stats.
Need an OT More than a Guard  
Samiam : 2/9/2018 3:03 pm : link
Weíre very weak all over the OL and especially weak at tackle. I think itís also easier to find a guard than a tackle. I donít know the projected guard in round 2 and I donít know if he ca play tackle and I dont know the tackle projected to go to the Jets a few picks later. I would hope we can improve tackle more than any other position on the team
I don't think any OL position is weaker than another.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/9/2018 3:12 pm : link
When Pugh leaves the guards look like Jerry, Jones, and Fluker. That's still terrible.
I'd love this draft  
adamg : 2/9/2018 3:13 pm : link
.
Great insights Colin!  
M.S. : 2/9/2018 3:17 pm : link
Thanks so much.

I'm on your site practically every day now with the Draft in sight and the Giants picking so high and needing so much!

Very exciting!
RE: Would love Will in the second  
Milton : 2/9/2018 3:24 pm : link
In comment 13827307 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
Massive guard with shockingly quick feet. Whoís a better prospect, Price or Hernandez, or is that a stupid question?
I'm no scout, but I think Price has added value because he plays the center position and Hernandez does not. In fact, if I'm reading the scouting reports correctly, Price is more valued as an OC than he is as an OG.

Maybe Colin can chime in on the subject?
Future draft  
Colin@gbn : 2/9/2018 3:31 pm : link
Afternoon guys: Just a couple of additional points. First, I always tend to think of the draft as being more about the future and I think this is especially the case with the Giants this year. My suspicion is that Gettleman in fact was brought in to oversee the transition from the Eli era to whatever comes next so he may end up taking a longer term view with the Giants early picks rather than simply use them to fill immediate holes.

On a related note, the other thing you probably want to do if you have the 34th pick in the draft (in a draft where as many as a half dozen QBs get taken in the opening round) is come away with another first-round quality player at that spot, again rather than simply filling an immediate perceived need. In that context either of DE/OLBs Arden Key and/or Harold Landry could very well be in the mix if a) the Giants were indeed serious about transitioning to a 3-4) and b) that one or both passed their medicals (and in Key's case the off-field character test).
RE: Future draft  
Milton : 2/9/2018 3:41 pm : link
In comment 13827853 Colin@gbn said:
Quote:

On a related note, the other thing you probably want to do if you have the 34th pick in the draft (in a draft where as many as a half dozen QBs get taken in the opening round) is come away with another first-round quality player at that spot, again rather than simply filling an immediate perceived need.
The good news here is that while the top half of the first round is weak along the OL, once you get past the 20th pick we start to see a bunch of interior OL types (Wynn, Price, Hernandez) enter the mix along with some boom or bust OT's (Rankin, Crosby, O'Neill, Okorafor).

Also, the 66th overall pick is looking like a good spot to get value at the LB position. Leonard seems very much like a Gettleman type selection. Reese would be more likely to prefer Nwosu.

p.s.--I like RB John Kelly in the 4th round!
RE: Need an OT More than a Guard  
rich in DC : 2/9/2018 3:42 pm : link
In comment 13827820 Samiam said:
Quote:
Weíre very weak all over the OL and especially weak at tackle. I think itís also easier to find a guard than a tackle. I donít know the projected guard in round 2 and I donít know if he ca play tackle and I dont know the tackle projected to go to the Jets a few picks later. I would hope we can improve tackle more than any other position on the team


This is a BIG misconception. The great weakness of the OL is in the interior. It will not matter whether it is Eli, Davis or whomever is picked at #2 overall at QB. Edge rushers WILL get to the QB in the modern era.

What allows a QB to survive is the ability to "step up" in the pocket for scramble forward to get some yards. However, you CANNOT do that unless your interior OL can move people. The 2017 Giants interior OL was beyond terrible. NO ONE from the interior OL should be brought back for any reason. Replace in FA and the draft.

It will also impact on the run game. OT can stop guys from coming down the line, but unless you can move the NT and get a body on those small quick LB, you aren't going far.

Seriously, the Giants need 3 new interior OL. Flowers really should not be considered as an OG- he showed enough improvement at OT, with inconsistent foot and handwork that he could be fine at RT. However, he simply does not have the footwork to be effective in getting to the second level as an OG- and his hand placement would be even more ineffective against those big DT/NT types.
Draft thots  
Colin@gbn : 2/9/2018 3:54 pm : link
Milton; Rich: Very good points; Both Wynn and Price are rated higher than Hernandez in large part because they are much more athletic. Hernandez is a prototype road-grader who is technically solid in pass pro, but he's still best in small areas. And the hope here is that one or both of Wynn/Price might yet get pushed down if there is a run on another position or two such as CB.

Rich you make a very good point about the middle of the line. In this era of shorter drops and quicker releases, a lot of teams now consider C as almost as important as LT. In that context I had a couple of scouts quite independently tell me before last year's draft that they thought Chad Wheeler might ultimately make a very good NFL C.
Disagree on the OL Position  
Samiam : 2/9/2018 4:21 pm : link
Even if you want to say thatí C is as important as LT (& I donít agree), Jones is a way better C than Flowers is a LT. In fact, I donít think thereís a starting LT on the roster unless you think Wheeler is and that is a reach.

That said, it is far easier to find a guard either in free agency or later in the draft. Look what a LT like Whitworth got in free agency at his age last year. Orlando Brown is projected to go around the middle of the draft. He looks like Flowers as a LT. Itís a difficult position. Interior is also difficult but not as difficult.
I think Buffalo will take Price  
jeff57 : 2/9/2018 4:32 pm : link
With one of their first round picks. But I like Daniels a lot. If both Hernandez and Wynn are gone by 34 (unlikely) Iíd have no problem taking him. I like all of them a lot better than the second tier OTs like Miller and OíNeill.
Jones being better at his job than flowers is more a commentary  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/9/2018 6:09 pm : link
on flowers than jones' talent.
What rich said interior  
idiotsavant : 2/9/2018 6:11 pm : link
Thank you. Caught no end of shit for suggesting the past few years to go guard, center, guard 1,2,3.

He hehe. And that Pugh at the time '16..'17..was our best left tackle. No...end ..of flack from the peanut gallery.

All that said, though.

By all means adress guard and tackle as well etc. Agree that Jones is a far better center than flowers is a left tackle though.
Best mock I have seen  
Vanzetti : 2/9/2018 7:45 pm : link
I would flip Mayfield and Allen and Ward and R. Smith. But otherwise, I think that is very very good mock.
Back to the Corner