After adjusting the above contracts as if signed at Beckham, Jr.'s current age (25), a linear regression is performed, providing us with the following initial value.
6 years, $93,780,822 at an average of $15,630,137.. Sign me up twice over for that.. I assume he will ask for more..
After adjusting the above contracts as if signed at Beckham, Jr.'s current age (25), a linear regression is performed, providing us with the following initial value.
6 years, $93,780,822 at an average of $15,630,137.. Sign me up twice over for that.. I assume he will ask for more..
This would be a steal.
RE: He wants to be the highest player in the NFL Â
that everyone WANTS to be the highest paid player? No one goes into a contract negotiation for their 1st major payday thinking they are going to take a sweet discount, especially not after CTE, etc.
I'm sure Antonio Brown wanted to be the highest paid player in the NFL as well...
He might ask for something similar to Von Miller.... Â
Miller got 6-114 with 70M gtd. I can see him asking for a little more than that. Forget what other WR's are getting, he will prob want to be the highest paid non-QB.
the totals are great, but his gtd amount is pedestrian. I think his agent messed that one up.
I think his age was a big factor. He was 28 when he signed it, Beckham will likely be 25 when he signs his. If you treat contract negotiations like depreciating assets (i'm sure they do to an extent) Brown lost some leverage due to his age.
When you look at the gtd numbers that most superstars are getting, AB's agent did him wrong. 70M, 60M, 55M, AB got 17M gtd. His contract is not a barometer for what Odell will be getting.
Last year they were saying that DE we signed for the vet minimum and then cut was worth $7M/year. I forget that DE's name off the top of my head, but you know who I'm talking about.
When you look at the gtd numbers that most superstars are getting, AB's agent did him wrong. 70M, 60M, 55M, AB got 17M gtd. His contract is not a barometer for what Odell will be getting.
Yeesh, I didn't realize the guaranteed money was so low. Isn't he repped by Rosenhaus? Seems like something a guy like him wouldn't fuck up so badly.
When you look at the gtd numbers that most superstars are getting, AB's agent did him wrong. 70M, 60M, 55M, AB got 17M gtd. His contract is not a barometer for what Odell will be getting.
I agree with this. Davante Adams got $18 million of his $58 million guaranteed.
What if Nicks or Cruz had a contract like that? Try to trade him to Indy for the number 3 and something next year. Tell me the last team to win a Super Bowl with a WR being paid like that on it.
What if Nicks or Cruz had a contract like that? Try to trade him to Indy for the number 3 and something next year. Tell me the last team to win a Super Bowl with a WR being paid like that on it.
That would be foolish. Neither Nicks nor Cruz were anywhere near as good as Beckham is.
What if Nicks or Cruz had a contract like that? Try to trade him to Indy for the number 3 and something next year. Tell me the last team to win a Super Bowl with a WR being paid like that on it.
Can we agree that Atlanta blew the SB last year and it was in their grasp. Can we agree that Julio isn't the reason that they lost? Julio is a top paid WR and they were minutes away from a SB. 2 years before that, Demarious Thomas won the SB as a top paid WR. The Patriots almost won with Moss, but I guess that shouldn't count because they didn't actually win.
I also wouldn't recommend looking at it like this. It's convenient if you are looking for reasons not to pay OBJ, but only 1 team gets to win. How many teams with top WR's get to the SB? Get to the conference championships? It's really unfair to just say how many teams WIN the SB with a high paid WR. Not to mention,
there are plenty. Another issue with this theory is that NE has won so many of the SB's recently and we know how they build their team. Lets take them out of the equation...unless of course your plan is to sign the best qb to ever play with the best coach to every play. Otherwise, lets remove them from the equation. Marvin Harrison and Plaxico Burress were 2 more big time WR's that won a SB in the past 15 years.
Go do your own research and come back to us instead of asking everyone else to prove you wrong. You can't just say something and it's right. It's not. Look at the teams in the SB and it's littered with high profile, high money WR's.
Whatever he signs for, it will be a boatload of money. But...the Giants will be in better shape in 2019 by cutting Eli & JPP for a whooping $29.5M in savings. Pretty sure Abrams will be able to work things out.
there are plenty. Another issue with this theory is that NE has won so many of the SB's recently and we know how they build their team. Lets take them out of the equation...unless of course your plan is to sign the best qb to ever play with the best coach to every play. Otherwise, lets remove them from the equation. Marvin Harrison and Plaxico Burress were 2 more big time WR's that won a SB in the past 15 years.
Go do your own research and come back to us instead of asking everyone else to prove you wrong. You can't just say something and it's right. It's not. Look at the teams in the SB and it's littered with high profile, high money WR's.
Harrison and Plaxico were not bad at all. Odell is going to want much more than what Sportrac says he is worth. I know OBJ is better than Nicks and Cruz. Julio's game is as much about size as burst. OBJ is everything about burst/explosion. One soft tissue injury away from being a JAG. So no I do not believe in tying up a large percentage of cap/guaranteed money into a guy that has gotten injured. No way we should give a contract right now. Franchise him until you can't or trade him now for as much as you can.
Julio had a cap hit 13.9m in 2017....Could live with that considering his game, loses some speed still could be productive. Julio contract - ( New Window )
He's still under contract for another year, after that they should be able to franchise him for $20 mill or less. I'm not sold on OBJ lasting long in this league. We've seen Hicks and Cruz flame out and they weren't head cases. OBJ has been inconsistent and injury prone as well.
Are you talking about Spotrac's "practical gtd"? Because the largest guaranteed deal excluding QBs and Suh is ~$43M. AB's is still ridiculously low, but that's a lot less than the $70M mentioned above for superstars.
the precedent for Beckham getting $20M would be the Von Miller and Suh who both blew away the previous max salaries for their respective positions.
Without the injury, I think Beckham could've come close to that. Now, especially if they reach an extension this offseason, I think you're looking at something closer to $18M per and $40-50M gtd.
there are plenty. Another issue with this theory is that NE has won so many of the SB's recently and we know how they build their team. Lets take them out of the equation...unless of course your plan is to sign the best qb to ever play with the best coach to every play. Otherwise, lets remove them from the equation. Marvin Harrison and Plaxico Burress were 2 more big time WR's that won a SB in the past 15 years.
Go do your own research and come back to us instead of asking everyone else to prove you wrong. You can't just say something and it's right. It's not. Look at the teams in the SB and it's littered with high profile, high money WR's.
Harrison and Plaxico were not bad at all. Odell is going to want much more than what Sportrac says he is worth. I know OBJ is better than Nicks and Cruz. Julio's game is as much about size as burst. OBJ is everything about burst/explosion. One soft tissue injury away from being a JAG. So no I do not believe in tying up a large percentage of cap/guaranteed money into a guy that has gotten injured. No way we should give a contract right now. Franchise him until you can't or trade him now for as much as you can.
Again, just because you say it, doesn't make it true. Harrison wasn't bad at all? Care to investigate that claim and show proof? It's all relative. If you are comparing Harrison to contracts now, then sure. If you are comparing him to other players of that year, you couldn't be more wrong. Harrison was paid big money.
Also, take a look at the top WR's in the game today and most are on competitive teams that are SB contenders. Oh, but it only matters who actually wins, got it.
He's still under contract for another year, after that they should be able to franchise him for $20 mill or less. I'm not sold on OBJ lasting long in this league. We've seen Hicks and Cruz flame out and they weren't head cases. OBJ has been inconsistent and injury prone as well.
We're having this discussion because the Giants, the fanbase, and probably everyone on the planet doesnt agree with your assessment. Sorry if the discussion seems trivial with your expert opinion.
Locking up a player before their contract expires can be a beneficial tactic for the team. Kicking the can down the road means that the (increased) market value will be the precedent for negotiations. If you are sold on the player than you almost always win by doing it a year early.
Julio had a cap hit 13.9m in 2017....Could live with that considering his game, loses some speed still could be productive. Julio contract - ( New Window )
Dude, if you sign OBJ to a 6-100 deal, his first year cap is going to be lower than that probably. You do understand that, right?
Julio had a cap hit 13.9m in 2017....Could live with that considering his game, loses some speed still could be productive. Julio contract - ( New Window )
Dude, if you sign OBJ to a 6-100 deal, his first year cap is going to be lower than that probably. You do understand that, right?
Probably not lower, but close. How much guaranteed? If you did make it lower it just makes the rest higher, you understand that right?
i think he'll want a front loaded deal which wouldn't be a bad idea
Front-loaded deals are not the great solution that many people think they are. By the end of the deal, the contract is already being surpassed by others at his position, and with most of the high-value years in the rearview mirror, it almost invites a holdout from the player to get a new deal, which means you never really benefit from the cheaper years.
Julio had a cap hit 13.9m in 2017....Could live with that considering his game, loses some speed still could be productive. Julio contract - ( New Window )
Dude, if you sign OBJ to a 6-100 deal, his first year cap is going to be lower than that probably. You do understand that, right?
Probably not lower, but close. How much guaranteed? If you did make it lower it just makes the rest higher, you understand that right?
We can afford it being higher in a year or 2 when Eli is off the books and our QBs are Webb and/or another draft pick.
He's still under contract for another year, after that they should be able to franchise him for $20 mill or less. I'm not sold on OBJ lasting long in this league. We've seen Hicks and Cruz flame out and they weren't head cases. OBJ has been inconsistent and injury prone as well.
It's amazing that "Hicks" is probably the only part of your post that's even close to accurate, and it's also wrong.
Julio had a cap hit 13.9m in 2017....Could live with that considering his game, loses some speed still could be productive. Julio contract - ( New Window )
Dude, if you sign OBJ to a 6-100 deal, his first year cap is going to be lower than that probably. You do understand that, right?
Probably not lower, but close. How much guaranteed? If you did make it lower it just makes the rest higher, you understand that right?
I do. I also understand that he signed that contract in 2015. Do you understand that you need to factor in inflation and the rising cap?
I think Larry Fitzgerald was one of the highest paid WR's when they won the SB too.
What year did Arizona win a SB?
Sorry the year they were in the SB and lost a close game. Should we just remove Fitz because the didn't win the SB? His cap number is prob why Warner threw that INT to Harrison.
I think Larry Fitzgerald was one of the highest paid WR's when they won the SB too.
What year did Arizona win a SB?
Sorry the year they were in the SB and lost a close game. Should we just remove Fitz because the didn't win the SB? His cap number is prob why Warner threw that INT to Harrison.
Psst, I'm on your side. Doesn't mean I can't correct you at the same time.
There is more than just the money. I am not a fan of tying up a large percentage of cap into a WR. Throw in that OBJ has some diva in him. He has acted a certain way(not that bad IMO) How is he going to act once he has enough guaranteed money to ensure his ancestors don't ever need to work? I would rather spend those dollar on OL or pass rushers.
There is more than just the money. I am not a fan of tying up a large percentage of cap into a WR. Throw in that OBJ has some diva in him. He has acted a certain way(not that bad IMO) How is he going to act once he has enough guaranteed money to ensure his ancestors don't ever need to work? I would rather spend those dollar on OL or pass rushers.
Well, philosophically, we can do both...........soooooo.
There is more than just the money. I am not a fan of tying up a large percentage of cap into a WR. Throw in that OBJ has some diva in him. He has acted a certain way(not that bad IMO) How is he going to act once he has enough guaranteed money to ensure his ancestors don't ever need to work? I would rather spend those dollar on OL or pass rushers.
Your philosophy has been proven wrong. Again, take a look every year at the top WR's in football and I would bet most are on contending teams. Too many things factor in to which team actually wins that you can't just say it's becasue teams are paying their WR's too much. AB has been paid as a top WR for years and for years they are legit SB contenders. Same for Julio. Dez was making top money when Dallas was making their run. Philosophically, you are wrong.
The real reason is that you don't like Odell and that's fine, but lets not hide that behind the money.
Is still playing, his game is different than OBJs. If he had Fitzgerald's character and game it might be a little different. Still would not give him a contract this year. I would wait, try to get something we could live with next year. If not I would franchise him for at least 1 year rather than lock him up long term.
Fitzgeralds character makes him more productive on the field? What is wrong with OBJ's character? I've witnessed some amazing acts of humanity from Odell off the field. His issue is with controlling his passion on the field. He does some immature things, but why are we questioning his character?
There is more than just the money. I am not a fan of tying up a large percentage of cap into a WR. Throw in that OBJ has some diva in him. He has acted a certain way(not that bad IMO) How is he going to act once he has enough guaranteed money to ensure his ancestors don't ever need to work? I would rather spend those dollar on OL or pass rushers.
Your philosophy has been proven wrong. Again, take a look every year at the top WR's in football and I would bet most are on contending teams. Too many things factor in to which team actually wins that you can't just say it's becasue teams are paying their WR's too much. AB has been paid as a top WR for years and for years they are legit SB contenders. Same for Julio. Dez was making top money when Dallas was making their run. Philosophically, you are wrong.
The real reason is that you don't like Odell and that's fine, but lets not hide that behind the money.
I like Odell. The reasons I would not tie him up long term are the reasons I stated. I would rather have dominant OL/DL than a smaller superstar receiver.
yeah fitz has a different game and he's not as good as Odell. IN Odells second season(he missed 4 games his rookie year) he had a better season than Fitzgerald has ever had. Isn't that all that matters?
In 3 seasons Odell is averaging about 12 TD's per season. If he started his rookie season healthy, it would probably be 13 TD's per season. He's also averaging about 1375 yards to Fitzgeralds 1100 yards per season. Fitzgerald is a superstar. He's an awesome player and seems like a great dude, Odell is better at football.
yeah fitz has a different game and he's not as good as Odell. IN Odells second season(he missed 4 games his rookie year) he had a better season than Fitzgerald has ever had. Isn't that all that matters?
In 3 seasons Odell is averaging about 12 TD's per season. If he started his rookie season healthy, it would probably be 13 TD's per season. He's also averaging about 1375 yards to Fitzgeralds 1100 yards per season. Fitzgerald is a superstar. He's an awesome player and seems like a great dude, Odell is better at football.
Agreed.....What do you think is too much to keep Odell?
I'd make him the highest paid WR, no doubt. Like any other position, he's only the highest paid until the next great one is a FA. I'm hoping to get Odell for something like 6 years, 100 Million total with 50-60 gtd.
Did he really say unambiguously that he wants to be the highest paid player in the league? He wasn’t just shooting the breeze? I dont see any team offering that to him. But, I also think that he wants to play in a big market team like NY given his off the field activities
$30M signing bonus with first 3 seasons salary gtd:
Year 1: 8M salary(13M cap hit)
Year 2: 10M salary(15M cap hit)
Year 3: 12M salary(17M cap hit)
Year 4: 12M salary(17M cap hit)
Year 5: 13M salary(18M cap hit with a 10M dead cap hit if released before season)
Year 6: 15M salary(20M cap hit with a 5M dead cap hit)
$30M signing bonus with first 3 seasons salary gtd:
Year 1: 8M salary(13M cap hit)
Year 2: 10M salary(15M cap hit)
Year 3: 12M salary(17M cap hit)
Year 4: 12M salary(17M cap hit)
Year 5: 13M salary(18M cap hit with a 10M dead cap hit if released before season)
Year 6: 15M salary(20M cap hit with a 5M dead cap hit)
That is a lot of money, I want agree with you because he is so fucking good but I wouldn't do it. I realize it is not up to me and Mara said he wants to keep him. I think if he settles for that, we sign him. I think he is going to demand substantially more based on him saying he wants to be the highest paid player in the NFL.
you pay a lot of money for elite talent. I truly believe that he is the best WR in football and he's only 25.
Outside of Odell, our offense has been inept since he came into the league. Teams never had to respect the running game. Teams never really had to respect any other WRs/TEs on the field. Teams always keyed on Odell and he still put up better numbers than 99% of the league. He's just not stoppable. He's the only guy in the league that is a threat to score a TD from everywhere on the field.
with the "When was the last time someone won a SuperBowl with a WR/RB" bullshit?
If you are suggesting that signing Beckham somehow makes it less likely that they win a Superbowl that is idiocy, if that's not the suggestion then the argument itself is meaningless nonsense. Which is it?
He should have been traded 2 years ago like I kept saying Â
1. Beckham coming off an injury without showing any signs of maturing?
2. An extra first round pick last year- even if it was a late first like Garret Bolles or Ryan Ramcyzk, An extra this year and a good cost controlled LB?
I don't see how you can pay Beckham his market rate. He's eventually going to be playing with a young QB who will need a year or so to get his bearings.
sounds about right. Might be able to get him for less.
Listen...he is getting 8 this year. If we Franchised him the following year he gets say $17M...probably not that much.
If you sign him now...you get a discount for doing so. Look at Nicks, he never got paid. OBJ knows he needs to get his money NOW. He will take a discount to get it. One hit and it is all over.
it wasn’t a ligament. All reports say it was a clean break. Broken bones heal well unless you are rushed back (Dez Bryant).
We shouldn’t have traded him 2 years ago and we shouldn’t trade him now. What funniest bout this suggestion is Reese and McAdoo would have gotten to use those supposed picks from Beckham which would have been awesome, right?
We have someone who structures great contracts and we aren’t in cap he’ll nor will be with a fully paid Beckham. It’s unreal how people don’t see this.
with the "When was the last time someone won a SuperBowl with a WR/RB" bullshit?
If you are suggesting that signing Beckham somehow makes it less likely that they win a Superbowl that is idiocy, if that's not the suggestion then the argument itself is meaningless nonsense. Which is it?
There is this thing called a salary cap. It limits the amount of money teams can spend per year on players. So it is resource management. Putting a large cap number into a WR, considering how vulnerable they are when hit and how much they depend on their speed and explosiveness, we as Giant fans know they are one injury away from being out of the league. What if Nicks or Cruz had a contract like Odell wants? It isn't signing Beckham that makes it less likely we win a a SB. It is HOW MUCH we sign him for...How much is too much for BEckham...At what point would you say no?
Players are hitting low because of fines and penalties. Odell was hit low. What happens the next time he is hit low? He is great, he changes how the defense plays us. I get all of that. I love watching him. Very risky putting that much Cap/Gmoney into him.
RE: He should have been traded 2 years ago like I kept saying Â
1. Beckham coming off an injury without showing any signs of maturing?
2. An extra first round pick last year- even if it was a late first like Garret Bolles or Ryan Ramcyzk, An extra this year and a good cost controlled LB?
I don't see how you can pay Beckham his market rate. He's eventually going to be playing with a young QB who will need a year or so to get his bearings.
I'd rather have Odell than Bolles and a LB and it isn't even close.
The whole "when was the last high paid WR ton win" Â
With Odell and with every player in the NFL. This wasn't the kind of injury that makes you fear future injuries. You can't let elite talent walk away at 25 years old because of a freak injury that he's expected to come back 100% from.
You also can't let him walk away because of money when you are paying your 37 year old, twilight of his career, QB elite money. You let Eli go and sign Odell if you are that limited with money. The Giants aren't, but the point remains.
The next point is regarding the cap. It's not like the NBA, you can easily manipulate contracts in the NFL to make it work. The Giants have plenty of levers to pull to create money when needed, it shouldn't be a concern at all. Certainly not of a concern where you let a superstar go.
argument is stupid. There's no direct correlation, just a lot of coincidence. You can do this with any position.
Take a look at the cap hits for QB's. Only 7 times from 1994-2016 did the winning team have a QB with taking up double digits in the cap hit.
Maybe we should have traded Eli for a couple of firsts before paying him. Cap Hit - ( New Window )
You know whats funny about that list? A large portion of those QB's probably made more money than 99% of the league, yet the cap hit may not say so. Why? Because the cap hit number can be manipulated in a number of different ways and it's the only number fans should care about. Average contract value means absolutely nothing.
argument is stupid. There's no direct correlation, just a lot of coincidence. You can do this with any position.
Take a look at the cap hits for QB's. Only 7 times from 1994-2016 did the winning team have a QB with taking up double digits in the cap hit.
Maybe we should have traded Eli for a couple of firsts before paying him. Cap Hit - ( New Window )
You know whats funny about that list? A large portion of those QB's probably made more money than 99% of the league, yet the cap hit may not say so. Why? Because the cap hit number can be manipulated in a number of different ways and it's the only number fans should care about. Average contract value means absolutely nothing.
argument is stupid. There's no direct correlation, just a lot of coincidence. You can do this with any position.
Take a look at the cap hits for QB's. Only 7 times from 1994-2016 did the winning team have a QB with taking up double digits in the cap hit.
Maybe we should have traded Eli for a couple of firsts before paying him. Cap Hit - ( New Window )
You know whats funny about that list? A large portion of those QB's probably made more money than 99% of the league, yet the cap hit may not say so. Why? Because the cap hit number can be manipulated in a number of different ways and it's the only number fans should care about. Average contract value means absolutely nothing.
In fairness, except in a year when a player collects his signing bonus, his cap number will never be lower than his cash earnings for that season. The signing bonus is the only element that gets amortized (which subsequently leads to the cap number being higher than cash earnings in the other seasons of the contract). So unless those QBs happened to receive a signing bonus in those seasons in which they won the SB, they didn't make more real dollars than their cap hit reflects.
with the "When was the last time someone won a SuperBowl with a WR/RB" bullshit?
If you are suggesting that signing Beckham somehow makes it less likely that they win a Superbowl that is idiocy, if that's not the suggestion then the argument itself is meaningless nonsense. Which is it?
There is this thing called a salary cap. It limits the amount of money teams can spend per year on players. So it is resource management. Putting a large cap number into a WR, considering how vulnerable they are when hit and how much they depend on their speed and explosiveness, we as Giant fans know they are one injury away from being out of the league. What if Nicks or Cruz had a contract like Odell wants? It isn't signing Beckham that makes it less likely we win a a SB. It is HOW MUCH we sign him for...How much is too much for BEckham...At what point would you say no?
We’d have a 3-13 year like we just did, which is better than an 8-8 year whether fans want to endure it or not.
There’s a risk even with trading, you can end up with another Flowers and no Beckham because you didn’t want to fork over some cap room which is easily manipulated.
argument is stupid. There's no direct correlation, just a lot of coincidence. You can do this with any position.
Take a look at the cap hits for QB's. Only 7 times from 1994-2016 did the winning team have a QB with taking up double digits in the cap hit.
Maybe we should have traded Eli for a couple of firsts before paying him. Cap Hit - ( New Window )
You know whats funny about that list? A large portion of those QB's probably made more money than 99% of the league, yet the cap hit may not say so. Why? Because the cap hit number can be manipulated in a number of different ways and it's the only number fans should care about. Average contract value means absolutely nothing.
In fairness, except in a year when a player collects his signing bonus, his cap number will never be lower than his cash earnings for that season. The signing bonus is the only element that gets amortized (which subsequently leads to the cap number being higher than cash earnings in the other seasons of the contract). So unless those QBs happened to receive a signing bonus in those seasons in which they won the SB, they didn't make more real dollars than their cap hit reflects.
Which will also happen with Beckham. Like Keith said the only number that matters is the cap number.
RE: RE: He should have been traded 2 years ago like I kept saying Â
1. Beckham coming off an injury without showing any signs of maturing?
2. An extra first round pick last year- even if it was a late first like Garret Bolles or Ryan Ramcyzk, An extra this year and a good cost controlled LB?
I don't see how you can pay Beckham his market rate. He's eventually going to be playing with a young QB who will need a year or so to get his bearings.
I'd rather have Odell than Bolles and a LB and it isn't even close.
argument is stupid. There's no direct correlation, just a lot of coincidence. You can do this with any position.
Take a look at the cap hits for QB's. Only 7 times from 1994-2016 did the winning team have a QB with taking up double digits in the cap hit.
Maybe we should have traded Eli for a couple of firsts before paying him. Cap Hit - ( New Window )
You know whats funny about that list? A large portion of those QB's probably made more money than 99% of the league, yet the cap hit may not say so. Why? Because the cap hit number can be manipulated in a number of different ways and it's the only number fans should care about. Average contract value means absolutely nothing.
In fairness, except in a year when a player collects his signing bonus, his cap number will never be lower than his cash earnings for that season. The signing bonus is the only element that gets amortized (which subsequently leads to the cap number being higher than cash earnings in the other seasons of the contract). So unless those QBs happened to receive a signing bonus in those seasons in which they won the SB, they didn't make more real dollars than their cap hit reflects.
Performance bonuses, roster bonuses, converting bonuses to salary, adding years, etc...there are a number of different ways to manipulate the cap number and the player would get paid more than their cap dollar. The Cowboys have players who adjust their contracts yearly and see more than their cap number. Obviously they are robbing peter to pay paul and will eventually have to pay the piper, but teams routinely do these things to massage the cap number.
Shit, apparently you can funnel money through their charities to save money on the cap, lol.
RE: RE: RE: He should have been traded 2 years ago like I kept saying Â
1. Beckham coming off an injury without showing any signs of maturing?
2. An extra first round pick last year- even if it was a late first like Garret Bolles or Ryan Ramcyzk, An extra this year and a good cost controlled LB?
I don't see how you can pay Beckham his market rate. He's eventually going to be playing with a young QB who will need a year or so to get his bearings.
I'd rather have Odell than Bolles and a LB and it isn't even close.
Re-read
I read it fine. That "extra first" isn't an actual player. Give me the guy who has proven to play at an elite NFL level.
all the more reason to have great weapons for a young, cheap QB, or do I have that wrong?
QBs don’t take 4 years to develop anymore - if they do they likely aren’t starting caliber anyway. And having less talent around them while they are devloping may be the dumbest thing Ive ever heard.
RE: He wants to be the highest player in the NFL Â
There is more than just the money. I am not a fan of tying up a large percentage of cap into a WR. Throw in that OBJ has some diva in him. He has acted a certain way(not that bad IMO) How is he going to act once he has enough guaranteed money to ensure his ancestors don't ever need to work? I would rather spend those dollar on OL or pass rushers.
His contract has absolutely nothing to do with whether his ancestors had to work or not. His descendants are another matter.
There is more than just the money. I am not a fan of tying up a large percentage of cap into a WR. Throw in that OBJ has some diva in him. He has acted a certain way(not that bad IMO) How is he going to act once he has enough guaranteed money to ensure his ancestors don't ever need to work? I would rather spend those dollar on OL or pass rushers.
His contract has absolutely nothing to do with whether his ancestors had to work or not. His descendants are another matter.
Maybe he has his ancestors frozen like Ted Williams and is just waiting til he has the money to bring them back
He's like a MORE immature JPP. Good thing we tossed that money away.
Look I know it sucks- but you can't win with guys like that. Give me the guy who busts his ass 24/7 and isn't a looney toon even if he has less talent every single day.
He's like a MORE immature JPP. Good thing we tossed that money away.
Look I know it sucks- but you can't win with guys like that. Give me the guy who busts his ass 24/7 and isn't a looney toon even if he has less talent every single day.
You really aren’t making much sense on this thread. If anyone busts their ass 24/7 it’s Beckham. And considering he didn’t blow his hand off I’d say he’s more moreture than JPP.
You don’t like the guy, just say it and move on. Because everything you are describing is immeasurable and trivial.
RE: “He will eventually be playing with a young QB” Â
all the more reason to have great weapons for a young, cheap QB, or do I have that wrong?
QBs don’t take 4 years to develop anymore - if they do they likely aren’t starting caliber anyway. And having less talent around them while they are devloping may be the dumbest thing Ive ever heard.
Also, I can guarantee that this question was asked of both Gettleman and Shurmur in their interviews:
"How do you deal with Beckham if he continues to act out of control on the field and hurts the team?"
Their answer was a huge part of why each was hired. I doubt their answer was a shoulder shrug and a comment about how you gotta let dogs be dogs.
I keep thinking of how John Mara must feel when he watches his star player score a TD and lift his leg like a dog to piss, or get ejected for repeated fighting, or going on shirtless boat trips before a playoff game . He knows that's not the Giants way and not how the team wins titles. Believe it or not the Giants are historically one of the most successful franchises in NFL history, and their way of doing business does work.
I doubt that they are going to let some chucklenuts continue to act out like a petulant child and not toe the line of team before player, I don't care how marketable he is.
This is all the same reasoning that leads me to believe that Darnold is the prize of the Giants eye. That kid SCREAMS Giants type player.
it means Beckham is staying or why bother focusing on that? His behavior is so overblown it’s comical. If I didn’t know any better I’d think he gets ejected every game by the comments on these threads.
He's like a MORE immature JPP. Good thing we tossed that money away.
Look I know it sucks- but you can't win with guys like that. Give me the guy who busts his ass 24/7 and isn't a looney toon even if he has less talent every single day.
Michael Irvin put scissors to his teammates neck and was blowing lines 24/7. Cowboys did fine. Randy Moss caught what should have been the game winning TD in the Super Bowl.
Cam Newton made it to a Super Bowl. LT worked out well for the Giants. Ray Lewis was a suspect in a homicide.
He's like a MORE immature JPP. Good thing we tossed that money away.
Look I know it sucks- but you can't win with guys like that. Give me the guy who busts his ass 24/7 and isn't a looney toon even if he has less talent every single day.
Michael Irvin put scissors to his teammates neck and was blowing lines 24/7. Cowboys did fine. Randy Moss caught what should have been the game winning TD in the Super Bowl.
Cam Newton made it to a Super Bowl. LT worked out well for the Giants. Ray Lewis was a suspect in a homicide.
a) What did Cam Newton ever do? He has a poor attitude sometimes when things aren't going well but I've never seen him get ejected for fighting or multiple 15 yard celebration penalties.
b) Ray Lewis actually did participate in killing someone. He turned state and then got amnesia knowing they were never really going to push the issue.
I find it laughable that some of you just overlook the baby shit that Beckham pulls. He is EXACTLY who Gettleman was talking about when he said he needs professional football players not men/kids who play professional football.
I actually only put the odds of Beckham being a Giants by the draft at 50/50. Trading him is EXACTLY the type of move that Gettleman wasn't afraid to do in Carolina.
RE: RE: RE: RE: You shouldn't have wasted your time Â
He's like a MORE immature JPP. Good thing we tossed that money away.
Look I know it sucks- but you can't win with guys like that. Give me the guy who busts his ass 24/7 and isn't a looney toon even if he has less talent every single day.
Michael Irvin put scissors to his teammates neck and was blowing lines 24/7. Cowboys did fine. Randy Moss caught what should have been the game winning TD in the Super Bowl.
Cam Newton made it to a Super Bowl. LT worked out well for the Giants. Ray Lewis was a suspect in a homicide.
a) What did Cam Newton ever do? He has a poor attitude sometimes when things aren't going well but I've never seen him get ejected for fighting or multiple 15 yard celebration penalties.
b) Ray Lewis actually did participate in killing someone. He turned state and then got amnesia knowing they were never really going to push the issue.
I find it laughable that some of you just overlook the baby shit that Beckham pulls. He is EXACTLY who Gettleman was talking about when he said he needs professional football players not men/kids who play professional football.
I actually only put the odds of Beckham being a Giants by the draft at 50/50. Trading him is EXACTLY the type of move that Gettleman wasn't afraid to do in Carolina.
So because Ray Lewis turned state, you could win with him?
Gettleman did nothing like trading Beckham in Carolina. Nothing.
Post the proof.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: You shouldn't have wasted your time Â
He's like a MORE immature JPP. Good thing we tossed that money away.
Look I know it sucks- but you can't win with guys like that. Give me the guy who busts his ass 24/7 and isn't a looney toon even if he has less talent every single day.
Michael Irvin put scissors to his teammates neck and was blowing lines 24/7. Cowboys did fine. Randy Moss caught what should have been the game winning TD in the Super Bowl.
Cam Newton made it to a Super Bowl. LT worked out well for the Giants. Ray Lewis was a suspect in a homicide.
a) What did Cam Newton ever do? He has a poor attitude sometimes when things aren't going well but I've never seen him get ejected for fighting or multiple 15 yard celebration penalties.
b) Ray Lewis actually did participate in killing someone. He turned state and then got amnesia knowing they were never really going to push the issue.
I find it laughable that some of you just overlook the baby shit that Beckham pulls. He is EXACTLY who Gettleman was talking about when he said he needs professional football players not men/kids who play professional football.
I actually only put the odds of Beckham being a Giants by the draft at 50/50. Trading him is EXACTLY the type of move that Gettleman wasn't afraid to do in Carolina.
So because Ray Lewis turned state, you could win with him?
Gettleman did nothing like trading Beckham in Carolina. Nothing.
Beckham has to grow up a little. To me that means focus a bit more and keep your composure. To you it’s stop fighting with everyone, blowing off practice, and going on a coke binge.
Your depiction of him is so far out of touch that I can’t take your stance seriously.
he chose not to resign him because he didn’t think he was worth the money and was a product of the system. Couldn’t be any different of a scenario, holy shit.
So either Norman had expressed his willingness to stage a messy, sit-out over the franchise tag, or the Panthers are/were really dubious about his abilities and long-term prospects. Or the franchise was feeling extra charitable, and knowing they couldn’t deliver a big contract next year, and wanted to release Norman to get his money while he still can—which Norman did by signing a $75 million deal with the Redskins immediately after being shown the door in Carolina.
So how does that compare to Odell? You continue to make shit up and dodge questions.
Trading a 25 year old superstar receiver, arguably the greatest of all time through the first three years of his career is not comparable to cutting a formerly great receiver near the end of his career or pulling the tag on a 28 year old late round CB coming off his first year as a starter asking for insane money.
Odell is such a dumb idea. You will never get value. He is an absolute beast and takes over games. His is very charitable off the field, doesn’t beat woman, doesn’t carry around guns, do drugs etc... we struck gold when we drafted him. He’s gonna get a big contract and he deserves it. Luckily for us the bulk will come when Eli’s money is gone. I can’t believe people want to get rid of him because he gets emotional. He has a very good chance of breaking all receiving records. Why would you trade the best young WR in a pass happy league?
Is not going to sign for more than four or five years and he will at some point of this contract top the twenty million mark. There are a lot of great players in the NFL but being OBJ, playing in NY, his pre game and game performances are the greatest show in the NFL.
It’s not about anything more than a QB who just started what four games signed a deal for 27 million for five years. If your agent can’t get the greatest performer in the NFL without a doubt in the biggest media capital of the world twenty million Feed Him to the Lions. Love OBJ but his market value and this teams CAP situation just don’t add up to a good ending if he resigns. If you move many of the other CAP problem players it works but if you keep them and sign him welcome to CAP truly HELL.
Is not going to sign for more than four or five years and he will at some point of this contract top the twenty million mark. There are a lot of great players in the NFL but being OBJ, playing in NY, his pre game and game performances are the greatest show in the NFL.
It’s not about anything more than a QB who just started what four games signed a deal for 27 million for five years. If your agent can’t get the greatest performer in the NFL without a doubt in the biggest media capital of the world twenty million Feed Him to the Lions. Love OBJ but his market value and this teams CAP situation just don’t add up to a good ending if he resigns. If you move many of the other CAP problem players it works but if you keep them and sign him welcome to CAP truly HELL.
Eli has had over a $20 million cap hit and not to long ago they spent $100 million on defense.
Is not going to sign for more than four or five years and he will at some point of this contract top the twenty million mark. There are a lot of great players in the NFL but being OBJ, playing in NY, his pre game and game performances are the greatest show in the NFL.
It’s not about anything more than a QB who just started what four games signed a deal for 27 million for five years. If your agent can’t get the greatest performer in the NFL without a doubt in the biggest media capital of the world twenty million Feed Him to the Lions. Love OBJ but his market value and this teams CAP situation just don’t add up to a good ending if he resigns. If you move many of the other CAP problem players it works but if you keep them and sign him welcome to CAP truly HELL.
Bullshit. This team has a few outrageously overpaid players that do not earn it. Odell would not be one of them. He is not only by far the best player on the Giants, he is among the top 10 players in the league. You don't just ship off a talent like that for a few unknown draft picks.
I really don't understand why people are having so much trouble with this. I think they should bite the bullet now and move on from Eli but either way 2018 is likely Eli's last year with the team. So when Rosen or Darnold are making $6M a year and Eli's contract is off the books, it will be no issue whatsoever fitting Beckham in the cap. Not only that, you will be thanking the Lord that our new young QB has a guy like that to throw to.
argument is stupid. There's no direct correlation, just a lot of coincidence. You can do this with any position.
Take a look at the cap hits for QB's. Only 7 times from 1994-2016 did the winning team have a QB with taking up double digits in the cap hit.
Maybe we should have traded Eli for a couple of firsts before paying him. Cap Hit - ( New Window )
You know whats funny about that list? A large portion of those QB's probably made more money than 99% of the league, yet the cap hit may not say so. Why? Because the cap hit number can be manipulated in a number of different ways and it's the only number fans should care about. Average contract value means absolutely nothing.
In fairness, except in a year when a player collects his signing bonus, his cap number will never be lower than his cash earnings for that season. The signing bonus is the only element that gets amortized (which subsequently leads to the cap number being higher than cash earnings in the other seasons of the contract). So unless those QBs happened to receive a signing bonus in those seasons in which they won the SB, they didn't make more real dollars than their cap hit reflects.
Which will also happen with Beckham. Like Keith said the only number that matters is the cap number.
I'm as in favor of extending Beckham as anyone (maybe even more so), without qualifiers or what ifs. But with all due respect, I don't think either of you are really describing contract mechanisms correctly with regards to cap number.
All the stuff Keith mentions above is irrelevant except for the one thing he got backwards - converting salary to bonus (and only specifically in the form of a signing bonus, as I originally said) is the only way to amortize money across an NFL contract. All the other bonuses that Keith mentioned work just like salary in the year they're due. With that one and only exception of a signing bonus, it is not possible for a player to earn more real dollars than his cap number in any given season.
Can you even begin to contemplate trading Beckham when you see this? I also believe Eli is a HOF QB. The proof is right here.
I am 30 so I never got to see LT play...but for my generation Odell is LT. He is that good. Pay the man and he will help us win a Superbowl in the future
RE: I am just going to leave this here again for you east coasters Â
Can you even begin to contemplate trading Beckham when you see this? I also believe Eli is a HOF QB. The proof is right here.
I am 30 so I never got to see LT play...but for my generation Odell is LT. He is that good. Pay the man and he will help us win a Superbowl in the future
with the "When was the last time someone won a SuperBowl with a WR/RB" bullshit?
If you are suggesting that signing Beckham somehow makes it less likely that they win a Superbowl that is idiocy, if that's not the suggestion then the argument itself is meaningless nonsense. Which is it?
The answer to your question btw is just this past Sunday. The Eagles signed two big ticket WRs last offseason.
Is not the real issue it’s the other players grossly overpaid that present the CAP problems going forward. Each year in theory the CAP goes up but these players contracts also increase plus who will be the next overrated player they resign. These players have a much higher dollar value of themselves then realistic but they keep getting paid you have to stop that.
In reality in FA how many players have earned the big contracts signed by the Giants, Strahan, Barber, Eli his first extension, there are a few others but due to injuries or whatever for the most part it’s a loosing process. These players for the most part last three to five years in the NFL the odds after that decline drastically. FA It’s a flawed system why continue to use something that’s proven to be flawed over and over?
Is not the real issue it’s the other players grossly overpaid that present the CAP problems going forward. Each year in theory the CAP goes up but these players contracts also increase plus who will be the next overrated player they resign. These players have a much higher dollar value of themselves then realistic but they keep getting paid you have to stop that.
In reality in FA how many players have earned the big contracts signed by the Giants, Strahan, Barber, Eli his first extension, there are a few others but due to injuries or whatever for the most part it’s a loosing process. These players for the most part last three to five years in the NFL the odds after that decline drastically. FA It’s a flawed system why continue to use something that’s proven to be flawed over and over?
So because other players are overpaid we’re going to get rid of Odell? You’re not making any logical points.
I understand what you are saying, but you are missing my point. Example, you have a contract worth ..6 years-102 million with 40 gtd. On average, that player makes 17M per, but his cap number could be:
Year 1: 8M
Year 2: 12M
Year 3: 15M
Year4: 22M
Year 5: 25M
Year 6: 28M
So in year 4, the player converts his salary to a signing bonus and adds 2 years and his cap number never touches the average salary of 17M per. Maybe I did s poor job of explaining what I meant,but that’s my point.
Is not the real issue it’s the other players grossly overpaid that present the CAP problems going forward. Each year in theory the CAP goes up but these players contracts also increase plus who will be the next overrated player they resign. These players have a much higher dollar value of themselves then realistic but they keep getting paid you have to stop that.
In reality in FA how many players have earned the big contracts signed by the Giants, Strahan, Barber, Eli his first extension, there are a few others but due to injuries or whatever for the most part it’s a loosing process. These players for the most part last three to five years in the NFL the odds after that decline drastically. FA It’s a flawed system why continue to use something that’s proven to be flawed over and over?
Your argument makes no sense. So what is your solution? Playing money ball and flipping vets for draft picks to have a team full of players on rookie contracts and cheap vets?
So just because the Giants have given out bad contracts in the past they should just avoid giving a massive contract to the one player on the team that absolutely deserves it?
we are still well under the cap and very flexible. What part of that don’t people get?
obviously the same part that you don't seem to get is that compared to a lot of teams we are definitely not well under the cap and after we sign our draft choices we might have enough money for one decent FA.
6 years, $93,780,822 at an average of $15,630,137.. Sign me up twice over for that.. I assume he will ask for more..
This contract is a steal for the best WR in the game who is 25.
He's not going to be the highest paid player.
No-brainer. NYG will get this done.
I don't think he signs for the proposed deal.
I think he'll get somewhere around 6-100 with an enormous amount in gtd, more than half.
Highest paid WR is $17M, that's the OB benchmark. He's not getting QB money ...
6 years, $93,780,822 at an average of $15,630,137.. Sign me up twice over for that.. I assume he will ask for more..
This would be a steal.
Thats not how it works lol. Teams will put a value on him and he will take the highest offer or retire
No it's not.
I'm sure Antonio Brown wanted to be the highest paid player in the NFL as well...
In a very fantasty (not happening scenerio) our cap $ after this year grows by insane amounts and we are in fantastic shape. OverTheCap says so!
I think his age was a big factor. He was 28 when he signed it, Beckham will likely be 25 when he signs his. If you treat contract negotiations like depreciating assets (i'm sure they do to an extent) Brown lost some leverage due to his age.
Yeesh, I didn't realize the guaranteed money was so low. Isn't he repped by Rosenhaus? Seems like something a guy like him wouldn't fuck up so badly.
I agree with this. Davante Adams got $18 million of his $58 million guaranteed.
He'll get anywhere from 50-65% of his deal guaranteed, most likely. Which I'm fine with.
That would be foolish. Neither Nicks nor Cruz were anywhere near as good as Beckham is.
Can we agree that Atlanta blew the SB last year and it was in their grasp. Can we agree that Julio isn't the reason that they lost? Julio is a top paid WR and they were minutes away from a SB. 2 years before that, Demarious Thomas won the SB as a top paid WR. The Patriots almost won with Moss, but I guess that shouldn't count because they didn't actually win.
I also wouldn't recommend looking at it like this. It's convenient if you are looking for reasons not to pay OBJ, but only 1 team gets to win. How many teams with top WR's get to the SB? Get to the conference championships? It's really unfair to just say how many teams WIN the SB with a high paid WR. Not to mention,
Hopefully OBJ will recognize how much $ he can make in endorsements by playing in NY.
Go do your own research and come back to us instead of asking everyone else to prove you wrong. You can't just say something and it's right. It's not. Look at the teams in the SB and it's littered with high profile, high money WR's.
I don't think he signs for the proposed deal.
Whatever he signs for, it will be a boatload of money. But...the Giants will be in better shape in 2019 by cutting Eli & JPP for a whooping $29.5M in savings. Pretty sure Abrams will be able to work things out.
Go do your own research and come back to us instead of asking everyone else to prove you wrong. You can't just say something and it's right. It's not. Look at the teams in the SB and it's littered with high profile, high money WR's.
Julio contract - ( New Window )
Without the injury, I think Beckham could've come close to that. Now, especially if they reach an extension this offseason, I think you're looking at something closer to $18M per and $40-50M gtd.
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there are plenty. Another issue with this theory is that NE has won so many of the SB's recently and we know how they build their team. Lets take them out of the equation...unless of course your plan is to sign the best qb to ever play with the best coach to every play. Otherwise, lets remove them from the equation. Marvin Harrison and Plaxico Burress were 2 more big time WR's that won a SB in the past 15 years.
Go do your own research and come back to us instead of asking everyone else to prove you wrong. You can't just say something and it's right. It's not. Look at the teams in the SB and it's littered with high profile, high money WR's.
Harrison and Plaxico were not bad at all. Odell is going to want much more than what Sportrac says he is worth. I know OBJ is better than Nicks and Cruz. Julio's game is as much about size as burst. OBJ is everything about burst/explosion. One soft tissue injury away from being a JAG. So no I do not believe in tying up a large percentage of cap/guaranteed money into a guy that has gotten injured. No way we should give a contract right now. Franchise him until you can't or trade him now for as much as you can.
Again, just because you say it, doesn't make it true. Harrison wasn't bad at all? Care to investigate that claim and show proof? It's all relative. If you are comparing Harrison to contracts now, then sure. If you are comparing him to other players of that year, you couldn't be more wrong. Harrison was paid big money.
Also, take a look at the top WR's in the game today and most are on competitive teams that are SB contenders. Oh, but it only matters who actually wins, got it.
We're having this discussion because the Giants, the fanbase, and probably everyone on the planet doesnt agree with your assessment. Sorry if the discussion seems trivial with your expert opinion.
Locking up a player before their contract expires can be a beneficial tactic for the team. Kicking the can down the road means that the (increased) market value will be the precedent for negotiations. If you are sold on the player than you almost always win by doing it a year early.
I.E. WORTH discussing.
Dude, if you sign OBJ to a 6-100 deal, his first year cap is going to be lower than that probably. You do understand that, right?
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Julio had a cap hit 13.9m in 2017....Could live with that considering his game, loses some speed still could be productive. Julio contract - ( New Window )
Dude, if you sign OBJ to a 6-100 deal, his first year cap is going to be lower than that probably. You do understand that, right?
Front-loaded deals are not the great solution that many people think they are. By the end of the deal, the contract is already being surpassed by others at his position, and with most of the high-value years in the rearview mirror, it almost invites a holdout from the player to get a new deal, which means you never really benefit from the cheaper years.
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In comment 13827861 Thegratefulhead said:
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Julio had a cap hit 13.9m in 2017....Could live with that considering his game, loses some speed still could be productive. Julio contract - ( New Window )
Dude, if you sign OBJ to a 6-100 deal, his first year cap is going to be lower than that probably. You do understand that, right?
Probably not lower, but close. How much guaranteed? If you did make it lower it just makes the rest higher, you understand that right?
We can afford it being higher in a year or 2 when Eli is off the books and our QBs are Webb and/or another draft pick.
What year did Arizona win a SB?
It's amazing that "Hicks" is probably the only part of your post that's even close to accurate, and it's also wrong.
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In comment 13827861 Thegratefulhead said:
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Julio had a cap hit 13.9m in 2017....Could live with that considering his game, loses some speed still could be productive. Julio contract - ( New Window )
Dude, if you sign OBJ to a 6-100 deal, his first year cap is going to be lower than that probably. You do understand that, right?
Probably not lower, but close. How much guaranteed? If you did make it lower it just makes the rest higher, you understand that right?
I do. I also understand that he signed that contract in 2015. Do you understand that you need to factor in inflation and the rising cap?
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I think Larry Fitzgerald was one of the highest paid WR's when they won the SB too.
What year did Arizona win a SB?
Sorry the year they were in the SB and lost a close game. Should we just remove Fitz because the didn't win the SB? His cap number is prob why Warner threw that INT to Harrison.
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In comment 13827886 Keith said:
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I think Larry Fitzgerald was one of the highest paid WR's when they won the SB too.
What year did Arizona win a SB?
Sorry the year they were in the SB and lost a close game. Should we just remove Fitz because the didn't win the SB? His cap number is prob why Warner threw that INT to Harrison.
Psst, I'm on your side. Doesn't mean I can't correct you at the same time.
Well, philosophically, we can do both...........soooooo.
Your philosophy has been proven wrong. Again, take a look every year at the top WR's in football and I would bet most are on contending teams. Too many things factor in to which team actually wins that you can't just say it's becasue teams are paying their WR's too much. AB has been paid as a top WR for years and for years they are legit SB contenders. Same for Julio. Dez was making top money when Dallas was making their run. Philosophically, you are wrong.
The real reason is that you don't like Odell and that's fine, but lets not hide that behind the money.
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There is more than just the money. I am not a fan of tying up a large percentage of cap into a WR. Throw in that OBJ has some diva in him. He has acted a certain way(not that bad IMO) How is he going to act once he has enough guaranteed money to ensure his ancestors don't ever need to work? I would rather spend those dollar on OL or pass rushers.
Your philosophy has been proven wrong. Again, take a look every year at the top WR's in football and I would bet most are on contending teams. Too many things factor in to which team actually wins that you can't just say it's becasue teams are paying their WR's too much. AB has been paid as a top WR for years and for years they are legit SB contenders. Same for Julio. Dez was making top money when Dallas was making their run. Philosophically, you are wrong.
The real reason is that you don't like Odell and that's fine, but lets not hide that behind the money.
In 3 seasons Odell is averaging about 12 TD's per season. If he started his rookie season healthy, it would probably be 13 TD's per season. He's also averaging about 1375 yards to Fitzgeralds 1100 yards per season. Fitzgerald is a superstar. He's an awesome player and seems like a great dude, Odell is better at football.
In 3 seasons Odell is averaging about 12 TD's per season. If he started his rookie season healthy, it would probably be 13 TD's per season. He's also averaging about 1375 yards to Fitzgeralds 1100 yards per season. Fitzgerald is a superstar. He's an awesome player and seems like a great dude, Odell is better at football.
$30M signing bonus with first 3 seasons salary gtd:
Year 1: 8M salary(13M cap hit)
Year 2: 10M salary(15M cap hit)
Year 3: 12M salary(17M cap hit)
Year 4: 12M salary(17M cap hit)
Year 5: 13M salary(18M cap hit with a 10M dead cap hit if released before season)
Year 6: 15M salary(20M cap hit with a 5M dead cap hit)
$30M signing bonus with first 3 seasons salary gtd:
Year 1: 8M salary(13M cap hit)
Year 2: 10M salary(15M cap hit)
Year 3: 12M salary(17M cap hit)
Year 4: 12M salary(17M cap hit)
Year 5: 13M salary(18M cap hit with a 10M dead cap hit if released before season)
Year 6: 15M salary(20M cap hit with a 5M dead cap hit)
Outside of Odell, our offense has been inept since he came into the league. Teams never had to respect the running game. Teams never really had to respect any other WRs/TEs on the field. Teams always keyed on Odell and he still put up better numbers than 99% of the league. He's just not stoppable. He's the only guy in the league that is a threat to score a TD from everywhere on the field.
If you are suggesting that signing Beckham somehow makes it less likely that they win a Superbowl that is idiocy, if that's not the suggestion then the argument itself is meaningless nonsense. Which is it?
1. Beckham coming off an injury without showing any signs of maturing?
2. An extra first round pick last year- even if it was a late first like Garret Bolles or Ryan Ramcyzk, An extra this year and a good cost controlled LB?
I don't see how you can pay Beckham his market rate. He's eventually going to be playing with a young QB who will need a year or so to get his bearings.
Listen...he is getting 8 this year. If we Franchised him the following year he gets say $17M...probably not that much.
If you sign him now...you get a discount for doing so. Look at Nicks, he never got paid. OBJ knows he needs to get his money NOW. He will take a discount to get it. One hit and it is all over.
We shouldn’t have traded him 2 years ago and we shouldn’t trade him now. What funniest bout this suggestion is Reese and McAdoo would have gotten to use those supposed picks from Beckham which would have been awesome, right?
We have someone who structures great contracts and we aren’t in cap he’ll nor will be with a fully paid Beckham. It’s unreal how people don’t see this.
If you are suggesting that signing Beckham somehow makes it less likely that they win a Superbowl that is idiocy, if that's not the suggestion then the argument itself is meaningless nonsense. Which is it?
1. Beckham coming off an injury without showing any signs of maturing?
2. An extra first round pick last year- even if it was a late first like Garret Bolles or Ryan Ramcyzk, An extra this year and a good cost controlled LB?
I don't see how you can pay Beckham his market rate. He's eventually going to be playing with a young QB who will need a year or so to get his bearings.
I'd rather have Odell than Bolles and a LB and it isn't even close.
Take a look at the cap hits for QB's. Only 7 times from 1994-2016 did the winning team have a QB with taking up double digits in the cap hit.
Maybe we should have traded Eli for a couple of firsts before paying him.
Cap Hit - ( New Window )
You also can't let him walk away because of money when you are paying your 37 year old, twilight of his career, QB elite money. You let Eli go and sign Odell if you are that limited with money. The Giants aren't, but the point remains.
The next point is regarding the cap. It's not like the NBA, you can easily manipulate contracts in the NFL to make it work. The Giants have plenty of levers to pull to create money when needed, it shouldn't be a concern at all. Certainly not of a concern where you let a superstar go.
Take a look at the cap hits for QB's. Only 7 times from 1994-2016 did the winning team have a QB with taking up double digits in the cap hit.
Maybe we should have traded Eli for a couple of firsts before paying him. Cap Hit - ( New Window )
You know whats funny about that list? A large portion of those QB's probably made more money than 99% of the league, yet the cap hit may not say so. Why? Because the cap hit number can be manipulated in a number of different ways and it's the only number fans should care about. Average contract value means absolutely nothing.
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argument is stupid. There's no direct correlation, just a lot of coincidence. You can do this with any position.
Take a look at the cap hits for QB's. Only 7 times from 1994-2016 did the winning team have a QB with taking up double digits in the cap hit.
Maybe we should have traded Eli for a couple of firsts before paying him. Cap Hit - ( New Window )
You know whats funny about that list? A large portion of those QB's probably made more money than 99% of the league, yet the cap hit may not say so. Why? Because the cap hit number can be manipulated in a number of different ways and it's the only number fans should care about. Average contract value means absolutely nothing.
Spot on
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argument is stupid. There's no direct correlation, just a lot of coincidence. You can do this with any position.
Take a look at the cap hits for QB's. Only 7 times from 1994-2016 did the winning team have a QB with taking up double digits in the cap hit.
Maybe we should have traded Eli for a couple of firsts before paying him. Cap Hit - ( New Window )
You know whats funny about that list? A large portion of those QB's probably made more money than 99% of the league, yet the cap hit may not say so. Why? Because the cap hit number can be manipulated in a number of different ways and it's the only number fans should care about. Average contract value means absolutely nothing.
In fairness, except in a year when a player collects his signing bonus, his cap number will never be lower than his cash earnings for that season. The signing bonus is the only element that gets amortized (which subsequently leads to the cap number being higher than cash earnings in the other seasons of the contract). So unless those QBs happened to receive a signing bonus in those seasons in which they won the SB, they didn't make more real dollars than their cap hit reflects.
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with the "When was the last time someone won a SuperBowl with a WR/RB" bullshit?
If you are suggesting that signing Beckham somehow makes it less likely that they win a Superbowl that is idiocy, if that's not the suggestion then the argument itself is meaningless nonsense. Which is it?
There is this thing called a salary cap. It limits the amount of money teams can spend per year on players. So it is resource management. Putting a large cap number into a WR, considering how vulnerable they are when hit and how much they depend on their speed and explosiveness, we as Giant fans know they are one injury away from being out of the league. What if Nicks or Cruz had a contract like Odell wants? It isn't signing Beckham that makes it less likely we win a a SB. It is HOW MUCH we sign him for...How much is too much for BEckham...At what point would you say no?
We’d have a 3-13 year like we just did, which is better than an 8-8 year whether fans want to endure it or not.
There’s a risk even with trading, you can end up with another Flowers and no Beckham because you didn’t want to fork over some cap room which is easily manipulated.
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In comment 13828006 ajr2456 said:
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argument is stupid. There's no direct correlation, just a lot of coincidence. You can do this with any position.
Take a look at the cap hits for QB's. Only 7 times from 1994-2016 did the winning team have a QB with taking up double digits in the cap hit.
Maybe we should have traded Eli for a couple of firsts before paying him. Cap Hit - ( New Window )
You know whats funny about that list? A large portion of those QB's probably made more money than 99% of the league, yet the cap hit may not say so. Why? Because the cap hit number can be manipulated in a number of different ways and it's the only number fans should care about. Average contract value means absolutely nothing.
In fairness, except in a year when a player collects his signing bonus, his cap number will never be lower than his cash earnings for that season. The signing bonus is the only element that gets amortized (which subsequently leads to the cap number being higher than cash earnings in the other seasons of the contract). So unless those QBs happened to receive a signing bonus in those seasons in which they won the SB, they didn't make more real dollars than their cap hit reflects.
Which will also happen with Beckham. Like Keith said the only number that matters is the cap number.
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Which would you rather have right now?
1. Beckham coming off an injury without showing any signs of maturing?
2. An extra first round pick last year- even if it was a late first like Garret Bolles or Ryan Ramcyzk, An extra this year and a good cost controlled LB?
I don't see how you can pay Beckham his market rate. He's eventually going to be playing with a young QB who will need a year or so to get his bearings.
I'd rather have Odell than Bolles and a LB and it isn't even close.
Re-read
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In comment 13828006 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
argument is stupid. There's no direct correlation, just a lot of coincidence. You can do this with any position.
Take a look at the cap hits for QB's. Only 7 times from 1994-2016 did the winning team have a QB with taking up double digits in the cap hit.
Maybe we should have traded Eli for a couple of firsts before paying him. Cap Hit - ( New Window )
You know whats funny about that list? A large portion of those QB's probably made more money than 99% of the league, yet the cap hit may not say so. Why? Because the cap hit number can be manipulated in a number of different ways and it's the only number fans should care about. Average contract value means absolutely nothing.
In fairness, except in a year when a player collects his signing bonus, his cap number will never be lower than his cash earnings for that season. The signing bonus is the only element that gets amortized (which subsequently leads to the cap number being higher than cash earnings in the other seasons of the contract). So unless those QBs happened to receive a signing bonus in those seasons in which they won the SB, they didn't make more real dollars than their cap hit reflects.
Performance bonuses, roster bonuses, converting bonuses to salary, adding years, etc...there are a number of different ways to manipulate the cap number and the player would get paid more than their cap dollar. The Cowboys have players who adjust their contracts yearly and see more than their cap number. Obviously they are robbing peter to pay paul and will eventually have to pay the piper, but teams routinely do these things to massage the cap number.
Shit, apparently you can funnel money through their charities to save money on the cap, lol.
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In comment 13827978 ThatLimerickGuy said:
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Which would you rather have right now?
1. Beckham coming off an injury without showing any signs of maturing?
2. An extra first round pick last year- even if it was a late first like Garret Bolles or Ryan Ramcyzk, An extra this year and a good cost controlled LB?
I don't see how you can pay Beckham his market rate. He's eventually going to be playing with a young QB who will need a year or so to get his bearings.
I'd rather have Odell than Bolles and a LB and it isn't even close.
Re-read
I read it fine. That "extra first" isn't an actual player. Give me the guy who has proven to play at an elite NFL level.
QBs don’t take 4 years to develop anymore - if they do they likely aren’t starting caliber anyway. And having less talent around them while they are devloping may be the dumbest thing Ive ever heard.
His contract has absolutely nothing to do with whether his ancestors had to work or not. His descendants are another matter.
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There is more than just the money. I am not a fan of tying up a large percentage of cap into a WR. Throw in that OBJ has some diva in him. He has acted a certain way(not that bad IMO) How is he going to act once he has enough guaranteed money to ensure his ancestors don't ever need to work? I would rather spend those dollar on OL or pass rushers.
His contract has absolutely nothing to do with whether his ancestors had to work or not. His descendants are another matter.
Maybe he has his ancestors frozen like Ted Williams and is just waiting til he has the money to bring them back
He's like a MORE immature JPP. Good thing we tossed that money away.
Look I know it sucks- but you can't win with guys like that. Give me the guy who busts his ass 24/7 and isn't a looney toon even if he has less talent every single day.
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reading that nonsense the first time.
He's like a MORE immature JPP. Good thing we tossed that money away.
Look I know it sucks- but you can't win with guys like that. Give me the guy who busts his ass 24/7 and isn't a looney toon even if he has less talent every single day.
You really aren’t making much sense on this thread. If anyone busts their ass 24/7 it’s Beckham. And considering he didn’t blow his hand off I’d say he’s more moreture than JPP.
You don’t like the guy, just say it and move on. Because everything you are describing is immeasurable and trivial.
QBs don’t take 4 years to develop anymore - if they do they likely aren’t starting caliber anyway. And having less talent around them while they are devloping may be the dumbest thing Ive ever heard.
Also, I can guarantee that this question was asked of both Gettleman and Shurmur in their interviews:
"How do you deal with Beckham if he continues to act out of control on the field and hurts the team?"
Their answer was a huge part of why each was hired. I doubt their answer was a shoulder shrug and a comment about how you gotta let dogs be dogs.
I keep thinking of how John Mara must feel when he watches his star player score a TD and lift his leg like a dog to piss, or get ejected for repeated fighting, or going on shirtless boat trips before a playoff game . He knows that's not the Giants way and not how the team wins titles. Believe it or not the Giants are historically one of the most successful franchises in NFL history, and their way of doing business does work.
I doubt that they are going to let some chucklenuts continue to act out like a petulant child and not toe the line of team before player, I don't care how marketable he is.
This is all the same reasoning that leads me to believe that Darnold is the prize of the Giants eye. That kid SCREAMS Giants type player.
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reading that nonsense the first time.
He's like a MORE immature JPP. Good thing we tossed that money away.
Look I know it sucks- but you can't win with guys like that. Give me the guy who busts his ass 24/7 and isn't a looney toon even if he has less talent every single day.
Michael Irvin put scissors to his teammates neck and was blowing lines 24/7. Cowboys did fine. Randy Moss caught what should have been the game winning TD in the Super Bowl.
Cam Newton made it to a Super Bowl. LT worked out well for the Giants. Ray Lewis was a suspect in a homicide.
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In comment 13828036 Keith said:
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reading that nonsense the first time.
He's like a MORE immature JPP. Good thing we tossed that money away.
Look I know it sucks- but you can't win with guys like that. Give me the guy who busts his ass 24/7 and isn't a looney toon even if he has less talent every single day.
Michael Irvin put scissors to his teammates neck and was blowing lines 24/7. Cowboys did fine. Randy Moss caught what should have been the game winning TD in the Super Bowl.
Cam Newton made it to a Super Bowl. LT worked out well for the Giants. Ray Lewis was a suspect in a homicide.
a) What did Cam Newton ever do? He has a poor attitude sometimes when things aren't going well but I've never seen him get ejected for fighting or multiple 15 yard celebration penalties.
b) Ray Lewis actually did participate in killing someone. He turned state and then got amnesia knowing they were never really going to push the issue.
I find it laughable that some of you just overlook the baby shit that Beckham pulls. He is EXACTLY who Gettleman was talking about when he said he needs professional football players not men/kids who play professional football.
I actually only put the odds of Beckham being a Giants by the draft at 50/50. Trading him is EXACTLY the type of move that Gettleman wasn't afraid to do in Carolina.
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In comment 13828090 ThatLimerickGuy said:
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In comment 13828036 Keith said:
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reading that nonsense the first time.
He's like a MORE immature JPP. Good thing we tossed that money away.
Look I know it sucks- but you can't win with guys like that. Give me the guy who busts his ass 24/7 and isn't a looney toon even if he has less talent every single day.
Michael Irvin put scissors to his teammates neck and was blowing lines 24/7. Cowboys did fine. Randy Moss caught what should have been the game winning TD in the Super Bowl.
Cam Newton made it to a Super Bowl. LT worked out well for the Giants. Ray Lewis was a suspect in a homicide.
a) What did Cam Newton ever do? He has a poor attitude sometimes when things aren't going well but I've never seen him get ejected for fighting or multiple 15 yard celebration penalties.
b) Ray Lewis actually did participate in killing someone. He turned state and then got amnesia knowing they were never really going to push the issue.
I find it laughable that some of you just overlook the baby shit that Beckham pulls. He is EXACTLY who Gettleman was talking about when he said he needs professional football players not men/kids who play professional football.
I actually only put the odds of Beckham being a Giants by the draft at 50/50. Trading him is EXACTLY the type of move that Gettleman wasn't afraid to do in Carolina.
So because Ray Lewis turned state, you could win with him?
Gettleman did nothing like trading Beckham in Carolina. Nothing.
Post the proof.
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In comment 13828101 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 13828090 ThatLimerickGuy said:
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In comment 13828036 Keith said:
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reading that nonsense the first time.
He's like a MORE immature JPP. Good thing we tossed that money away.
Look I know it sucks- but you can't win with guys like that. Give me the guy who busts his ass 24/7 and isn't a looney toon even if he has less talent every single day.
Michael Irvin put scissors to his teammates neck and was blowing lines 24/7. Cowboys did fine. Randy Moss caught what should have been the game winning TD in the Super Bowl.
Cam Newton made it to a Super Bowl. LT worked out well for the Giants. Ray Lewis was a suspect in a homicide.
a) What did Cam Newton ever do? He has a poor attitude sometimes when things aren't going well but I've never seen him get ejected for fighting or multiple 15 yard celebration penalties.
b) Ray Lewis actually did participate in killing someone. He turned state and then got amnesia knowing they were never really going to push the issue.
I find it laughable that some of you just overlook the baby shit that Beckham pulls. He is EXACTLY who Gettleman was talking about when he said he needs professional football players not men/kids who play professional football.
I actually only put the odds of Beckham being a Giants by the draft at 50/50. Trading him is EXACTLY the type of move that Gettleman wasn't afraid to do in Carolina.
So because Ray Lewis turned state, you could win with him?
Gettleman did nothing like trading Beckham in Carolina. Nothing.
Post the proof.
Your depiction of him is so far out of touch that I can’t take your stance seriously.
So how does that compare to Odell? You continue to make shit up and dodge questions.
It’s not about anything more than a QB who just started what four games signed a deal for 27 million for five years. If your agent can’t get the greatest performer in the NFL without a doubt in the biggest media capital of the world twenty million Feed Him to the Lions. Love OBJ but his market value and this teams CAP situation just don’t add up to a good ending if he resigns. If you move many of the other CAP problem players it works but if you keep them and sign him welcome to CAP truly HELL.
It’s not about anything more than a QB who just started what four games signed a deal for 27 million for five years. If your agent can’t get the greatest performer in the NFL without a doubt in the biggest media capital of the world twenty million Feed Him to the Lions. Love OBJ but his market value and this teams CAP situation just don’t add up to a good ending if he resigns. If you move many of the other CAP problem players it works but if you keep them and sign him welcome to CAP truly HELL.
Eli has had over a $20 million cap hit and not to long ago they spent $100 million on defense.
It’s not about anything more than a QB who just started what four games signed a deal for 27 million for five years. If your agent can’t get the greatest performer in the NFL without a doubt in the biggest media capital of the world twenty million Feed Him to the Lions. Love OBJ but his market value and this teams CAP situation just don’t add up to a good ending if he resigns. If you move many of the other CAP problem players it works but if you keep them and sign him welcome to CAP truly HELL.
Bullshit. This team has a few outrageously overpaid players that do not earn it. Odell would not be one of them. He is not only by far the best player on the Giants, he is among the top 10 players in the league. You don't just ship off a talent like that for a few unknown draft picks.
I really don't understand why people are having so much trouble with this. I think they should bite the bullet now and move on from Eli but either way 2018 is likely Eli's last year with the team. So when Rosen or Darnold are making $6M a year and Eli's contract is off the books, it will be no issue whatsoever fitting Beckham in the cap. Not only that, you will be thanking the Lord that our new young QB has a guy like that to throw to.
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In comment 13828011 Keith said:
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In comment 13828006 ajr2456 said:
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argument is stupid. There's no direct correlation, just a lot of coincidence. You can do this with any position.
Take a look at the cap hits for QB's. Only 7 times from 1994-2016 did the winning team have a QB with taking up double digits in the cap hit.
Maybe we should have traded Eli for a couple of firsts before paying him. Cap Hit - ( New Window )
You know whats funny about that list? A large portion of those QB's probably made more money than 99% of the league, yet the cap hit may not say so. Why? Because the cap hit number can be manipulated in a number of different ways and it's the only number fans should care about. Average contract value means absolutely nothing.
In fairness, except in a year when a player collects his signing bonus, his cap number will never be lower than his cash earnings for that season. The signing bonus is the only element that gets amortized (which subsequently leads to the cap number being higher than cash earnings in the other seasons of the contract). So unless those QBs happened to receive a signing bonus in those seasons in which they won the SB, they didn't make more real dollars than their cap hit reflects.
Which will also happen with Beckham. Like Keith said the only number that matters is the cap number.
I'm as in favor of extending Beckham as anyone (maybe even more so), without qualifiers or what ifs. But with all due respect, I don't think either of you are really describing contract mechanisms correctly with regards to cap number.
All the stuff Keith mentions above is irrelevant except for the one thing he got backwards - converting salary to bonus (and only specifically in the form of a signing bonus, as I originally said) is the only way to amortize money across an NFL contract. All the other bonuses that Keith mentioned work just like salary in the year they're due. With that one and only exception of a signing bonus, it is not possible for a player to earn more real dollars than his cap number in any given season.
Eli Manning career stats as of week 2 2017:
Targeting Odell Beckham: 63%, 35-7 TD/INT, 111.4 passer rating
Targeting anyone else: 59.5%, 285-209 TD/INT, 79.9 passer rating.
Can you even begin to contemplate trading Beckham when you see this? I also believe Eli is a HOF QB. The proof is right here.
I am 30 so I never got to see LT play...but for my generation Odell is LT. He is that good. Pay the man and he will help us win a Superbowl in the future
Eli Manning career stats as of week 2 2017:
Targeting Odell Beckham: 63%, 35-7 TD/INT, 111.4 passer rating
Targeting anyone else: 59.5%, 285-209 TD/INT, 79.9 passer rating.
Can you even begin to contemplate trading Beckham when you see this? I also believe Eli is a HOF QB. The proof is right here.
I am 30 so I never got to see LT play...but for my generation Odell is LT. He is that good. Pay the man and he will help us win a Superbowl in the future
+1 Totally agree.
If you are suggesting that signing Beckham somehow makes it less likely that they win a Superbowl that is idiocy, if that's not the suggestion then the argument itself is meaningless nonsense. Which is it?
The answer to your question btw is just this past Sunday. The Eagles signed two big ticket WRs last offseason.
In reality in FA how many players have earned the big contracts signed by the Giants, Strahan, Barber, Eli his first extension, there are a few others but due to injuries or whatever for the most part it’s a loosing process. These players for the most part last three to five years in the NFL the odds after that decline drastically. FA It’s a flawed system why continue to use something that’s proven to be flawed over and over?
In reality in FA how many players have earned the big contracts signed by the Giants, Strahan, Barber, Eli his first extension, there are a few others but due to injuries or whatever for the most part it’s a loosing process. These players for the most part last three to five years in the NFL the odds after that decline drastically. FA It’s a flawed system why continue to use something that’s proven to be flawed over and over?
So because other players are overpaid we’re going to get rid of Odell? You’re not making any logical points.
Year 1: 8M
Year 2: 12M
Year 3: 15M
Year4: 22M
Year 5: 25M
Year 6: 28M
So in year 4, the player converts his salary to a signing bonus and adds 2 years and his cap number never touches the average salary of 17M per. Maybe I did s poor job of explaining what I meant,but that’s my point.
In reality in FA how many players have earned the big contracts signed by the Giants, Strahan, Barber, Eli his first extension, there are a few others but due to injuries or whatever for the most part it’s a loosing process. These players for the most part last three to five years in the NFL the odds after that decline drastically. FA It’s a flawed system why continue to use something that’s proven to be flawed over and over?
Your argument makes no sense. So what is your solution? Playing money ball and flipping vets for draft picks to have a team full of players on rookie contracts and cheap vets?
So just because the Giants have given out bad contracts in the past they should just avoid giving a massive contract to the one player on the team that absolutely deserves it?