Julio had a cap hit 13.9m in 2017....Could live with that considering his game, loses some speed still could be productive. Julio contract - ( New Window )
Dude, if you sign OBJ to a 6-100 deal, his first year cap is going to be lower than that probably. You do understand that, right?
Probably not lower, but close. How much guaranteed? If you did make it lower it just makes the rest higher, you understand that right?
i think he'll want a front loaded deal which wouldn't be a bad idea
Front-loaded deals are not the great solution that many people think they are. By the end of the deal, the contract is already being surpassed by others at his position, and with most of the high-value years in the rearview mirror, it almost invites a holdout from the player to get a new deal, which means you never really benefit from the cheaper years.
Julio had a cap hit 13.9m in 2017....Could live with that considering his game, loses some speed still could be productive. Julio contract - ( New Window )
Dude, if you sign OBJ to a 6-100 deal, his first year cap is going to be lower than that probably. You do understand that, right?
Probably not lower, but close. How much guaranteed? If you did make it lower it just makes the rest higher, you understand that right?
We can afford it being higher in a year or 2 when Eli is off the books and our QBs are Webb and/or another draft pick.
He's still under contract for another year, after that they should be able to franchise him for $20 mill or less. I'm not sold on OBJ lasting long in this league. We've seen Hicks and Cruz flame out and they weren't head cases. OBJ has been inconsistent and injury prone as well.
It's amazing that "Hicks" is probably the only part of your post that's even close to accurate, and it's also wrong.
Julio had a cap hit 13.9m in 2017....Could live with that considering his game, loses some speed still could be productive. Julio contract - ( New Window )
Dude, if you sign OBJ to a 6-100 deal, his first year cap is going to be lower than that probably. You do understand that, right?
Probably not lower, but close. How much guaranteed? If you did make it lower it just makes the rest higher, you understand that right?
I do. I also understand that he signed that contract in 2015. Do you understand that you need to factor in inflation and the rising cap?
I think Larry Fitzgerald was one of the highest paid WR's when they won the SB too.
What year did Arizona win a SB?
Sorry the year they were in the SB and lost a close game. Should we just remove Fitz because the didn't win the SB? His cap number is prob why Warner threw that INT to Harrison.
I think Larry Fitzgerald was one of the highest paid WR's when they won the SB too.
What year did Arizona win a SB?
Sorry the year they were in the SB and lost a close game. Should we just remove Fitz because the didn't win the SB? His cap number is prob why Warner threw that INT to Harrison.
Psst, I'm on your side. Doesn't mean I can't correct you at the same time.
There is more than just the money. I am not a fan of tying up a large percentage of cap into a WR. Throw in that OBJ has some diva in him. He has acted a certain way(not that bad IMO) How is he going to act once he has enough guaranteed money to ensure his ancestors don't ever need to work? I would rather spend those dollar on OL or pass rushers.
There is more than just the money. I am not a fan of tying up a large percentage of cap into a WR. Throw in that OBJ has some diva in him. He has acted a certain way(not that bad IMO) How is he going to act once he has enough guaranteed money to ensure his ancestors don't ever need to work? I would rather spend those dollar on OL or pass rushers.
Well, philosophically, we can do both...........soooooo.
There is more than just the money. I am not a fan of tying up a large percentage of cap into a WR. Throw in that OBJ has some diva in him. He has acted a certain way(not that bad IMO) How is he going to act once he has enough guaranteed money to ensure his ancestors don't ever need to work? I would rather spend those dollar on OL or pass rushers.
Your philosophy has been proven wrong. Again, take a look every year at the top WR's in football and I would bet most are on contending teams. Too many things factor in to which team actually wins that you can't just say it's becasue teams are paying their WR's too much. AB has been paid as a top WR for years and for years they are legit SB contenders. Same for Julio. Dez was making top money when Dallas was making their run. Philosophically, you are wrong.
The real reason is that you don't like Odell and that's fine, but lets not hide that behind the money.
Is still playing, his game is different than OBJs. If he had Fitzgerald's character and game it might be a little different. Still would not give him a contract this year. I would wait, try to get something we could live with next year. If not I would franchise him for at least 1 year rather than lock him up long term.
Fitzgeralds character makes him more productive on the field? What is wrong with OBJ's character? I've witnessed some amazing acts of humanity from Odell off the field. His issue is with controlling his passion on the field. He does some immature things, but why are we questioning his character?
There is more than just the money. I am not a fan of tying up a large percentage of cap into a WR. Throw in that OBJ has some diva in him. He has acted a certain way(not that bad IMO) How is he going to act once he has enough guaranteed money to ensure his ancestors don't ever need to work? I would rather spend those dollar on OL or pass rushers.
Your philosophy has been proven wrong. Again, take a look every year at the top WR's in football and I would bet most are on contending teams. Too many things factor in to which team actually wins that you can't just say it's becasue teams are paying their WR's too much. AB has been paid as a top WR for years and for years they are legit SB contenders. Same for Julio. Dez was making top money when Dallas was making their run. Philosophically, you are wrong.
The real reason is that you don't like Odell and that's fine, but lets not hide that behind the money.
I like Odell. The reasons I would not tie him up long term are the reasons I stated. I would rather have dominant OL/DL than a smaller superstar receiver.
yeah fitz has a different game and he's not as good as Odell. IN Odells second season(he missed 4 games his rookie year) he had a better season than Fitzgerald has ever had. Isn't that all that matters?
In 3 seasons Odell is averaging about 12 TD's per season. If he started his rookie season healthy, it would probably be 13 TD's per season. He's also averaging about 1375 yards to Fitzgeralds 1100 yards per season. Fitzgerald is a superstar. He's an awesome player and seems like a great dude, Odell is better at football.
yeah fitz has a different game and he's not as good as Odell. IN Odells second season(he missed 4 games his rookie year) he had a better season than Fitzgerald has ever had. Isn't that all that matters?
In 3 seasons Odell is averaging about 12 TD's per season. If he started his rookie season healthy, it would probably be 13 TD's per season. He's also averaging about 1375 yards to Fitzgeralds 1100 yards per season. Fitzgerald is a superstar. He's an awesome player and seems like a great dude, Odell is better at football.
Agreed.....What do you think is too much to keep Odell?
I'd make him the highest paid WR, no doubt. Like any other position, he's only the highest paid until the next great one is a FA. I'm hoping to get Odell for something like 6 years, 100 Million total with 50-60 gtd.
Did he really say unambiguously that he wants to be the highest paid player in the league? He wasn’t just shooting the breeze? I dont see any team offering that to him. But, I also think that he wants to play in a big market team like NY given his off the field activities
$30M signing bonus with first 3 seasons salary gtd:
Year 1: 8M salary(13M cap hit)
Year 2: 10M salary(15M cap hit)
Year 3: 12M salary(17M cap hit)
Year 4: 12M salary(17M cap hit)
Year 5: 13M salary(18M cap hit with a 10M dead cap hit if released before season)
Year 6: 15M salary(20M cap hit with a 5M dead cap hit)
$30M signing bonus with first 3 seasons salary gtd:
Year 1: 8M salary(13M cap hit)
Year 2: 10M salary(15M cap hit)
Year 3: 12M salary(17M cap hit)
Year 4: 12M salary(17M cap hit)
Year 5: 13M salary(18M cap hit with a 10M dead cap hit if released before season)
Year 6: 15M salary(20M cap hit with a 5M dead cap hit)
That is a lot of money, I want agree with you because he is so fucking good but I wouldn't do it. I realize it is not up to me and Mara said he wants to keep him. I think if he settles for that, we sign him. I think he is going to demand substantially more based on him saying he wants to be the highest paid player in the NFL.
you pay a lot of money for elite talent. I truly believe that he is the best WR in football and he's only 25.
Outside of Odell, our offense has been inept since he came into the league. Teams never had to respect the running game. Teams never really had to respect any other WRs/TEs on the field. Teams always keyed on Odell and he still put up better numbers than 99% of the league. He's just not stoppable. He's the only guy in the league that is a threat to score a TD from everywhere on the field.
with the "When was the last time someone won a SuperBowl with a WR/RB" bullshit?
If you are suggesting that signing Beckham somehow makes it less likely that they win a Superbowl that is idiocy, if that's not the suggestion then the argument itself is meaningless nonsense. Which is it?
He should have been traded 2 years ago like I kept saying Â
1. Beckham coming off an injury without showing any signs of maturing?
2. An extra first round pick last year- even if it was a late first like Garret Bolles or Ryan Ramcyzk, An extra this year and a good cost controlled LB?
I don't see how you can pay Beckham his market rate. He's eventually going to be playing with a young QB who will need a year or so to get his bearings.
sounds about right. Might be able to get him for less.
Listen...he is getting 8 this year. If we Franchised him the following year he gets say $17M...probably not that much.
If you sign him now...you get a discount for doing so. Look at Nicks, he never got paid. OBJ knows he needs to get his money NOW. He will take a discount to get it. One hit and it is all over.
it wasn’t a ligament. All reports say it was a clean break. Broken bones heal well unless you are rushed back (Dez Bryant).
We shouldn’t have traded him 2 years ago and we shouldn’t trade him now. What funniest bout this suggestion is Reese and McAdoo would have gotten to use those supposed picks from Beckham which would have been awesome, right?
We have someone who structures great contracts and we aren’t in cap he’ll nor will be with a fully paid Beckham. It’s unreal how people don’t see this.
with the "When was the last time someone won a SuperBowl with a WR/RB" bullshit?
If you are suggesting that signing Beckham somehow makes it less likely that they win a Superbowl that is idiocy, if that's not the suggestion then the argument itself is meaningless nonsense. Which is it?
There is this thing called a salary cap. It limits the amount of money teams can spend per year on players. So it is resource management. Putting a large cap number into a WR, considering how vulnerable they are when hit and how much they depend on their speed and explosiveness, we as Giant fans know they are one injury away from being out of the league. What if Nicks or Cruz had a contract like Odell wants? It isn't signing Beckham that makes it less likely we win a a SB. It is HOW MUCH we sign him for...How much is too much for BEckham...At what point would you say no?
Players are hitting low because of fines and penalties. Odell was hit low. What happens the next time he is hit low? He is great, he changes how the defense plays us. I get all of that. I love watching him. Very risky putting that much Cap/Gmoney into him.
RE: He should have been traded 2 years ago like I kept saying Â
1. Beckham coming off an injury without showing any signs of maturing?
2. An extra first round pick last year- even if it was a late first like Garret Bolles or Ryan Ramcyzk, An extra this year and a good cost controlled LB?
I don't see how you can pay Beckham his market rate. He's eventually going to be playing with a young QB who will need a year or so to get his bearings.
I'd rather have Odell than Bolles and a LB and it isn't even close.
The whole "when was the last high paid WR ton win" Â
With Odell and with every player in the NFL. This wasn't the kind of injury that makes you fear future injuries. You can't let elite talent walk away at 25 years old because of a freak injury that he's expected to come back 100% from.
You also can't let him walk away because of money when you are paying your 37 year old, twilight of his career, QB elite money. You let Eli go and sign Odell if you are that limited with money. The Giants aren't, but the point remains.
The next point is regarding the cap. It's not like the NBA, you can easily manipulate contracts in the NFL to make it work. The Giants have plenty of levers to pull to create money when needed, it shouldn't be a concern at all. Certainly not of a concern where you let a superstar go.
argument is stupid. There's no direct correlation, just a lot of coincidence. You can do this with any position.
Take a look at the cap hits for QB's. Only 7 times from 1994-2016 did the winning team have a QB with taking up double digits in the cap hit.
Maybe we should have traded Eli for a couple of firsts before paying him. Cap Hit - ( New Window )
You know whats funny about that list? A large portion of those QB's probably made more money than 99% of the league, yet the cap hit may not say so. Why? Because the cap hit number can be manipulated in a number of different ways and it's the only number fans should care about. Average contract value means absolutely nothing.
argument is stupid. There's no direct correlation, just a lot of coincidence. You can do this with any position.
Take a look at the cap hits for QB's. Only 7 times from 1994-2016 did the winning team have a QB with taking up double digits in the cap hit.
Maybe we should have traded Eli for a couple of firsts before paying him. Cap Hit - ( New Window )
You know whats funny about that list? A large portion of those QB's probably made more money than 99% of the league, yet the cap hit may not say so. Why? Because the cap hit number can be manipulated in a number of different ways and it's the only number fans should care about. Average contract value means absolutely nothing.
argument is stupid. There's no direct correlation, just a lot of coincidence. You can do this with any position.
Take a look at the cap hits for QB's. Only 7 times from 1994-2016 did the winning team have a QB with taking up double digits in the cap hit.
Maybe we should have traded Eli for a couple of firsts before paying him. Cap Hit - ( New Window )
You know whats funny about that list? A large portion of those QB's probably made more money than 99% of the league, yet the cap hit may not say so. Why? Because the cap hit number can be manipulated in a number of different ways and it's the only number fans should care about. Average contract value means absolutely nothing.
In fairness, except in a year when a player collects his signing bonus, his cap number will never be lower than his cash earnings for that season. The signing bonus is the only element that gets amortized (which subsequently leads to the cap number being higher than cash earnings in the other seasons of the contract). So unless those QBs happened to receive a signing bonus in those seasons in which they won the SB, they didn't make more real dollars than their cap hit reflects.
with the "When was the last time someone won a SuperBowl with a WR/RB" bullshit?
If you are suggesting that signing Beckham somehow makes it less likely that they win a Superbowl that is idiocy, if that's not the suggestion then the argument itself is meaningless nonsense. Which is it?
There is this thing called a salary cap. It limits the amount of money teams can spend per year on players. So it is resource management. Putting a large cap number into a WR, considering how vulnerable they are when hit and how much they depend on their speed and explosiveness, we as Giant fans know they are one injury away from being out of the league. What if Nicks or Cruz had a contract like Odell wants? It isn't signing Beckham that makes it less likely we win a a SB. It is HOW MUCH we sign him for...How much is too much for BEckham...At what point would you say no?
We’d have a 3-13 year like we just did, which is better than an 8-8 year whether fans want to endure it or not.
There’s a risk even with trading, you can end up with another Flowers and no Beckham because you didn’t want to fork over some cap room which is easily manipulated.
argument is stupid. There's no direct correlation, just a lot of coincidence. You can do this with any position.
Take a look at the cap hits for QB's. Only 7 times from 1994-2016 did the winning team have a QB with taking up double digits in the cap hit.
Maybe we should have traded Eli for a couple of firsts before paying him. Cap Hit - ( New Window )
You know whats funny about that list? A large portion of those QB's probably made more money than 99% of the league, yet the cap hit may not say so. Why? Because the cap hit number can be manipulated in a number of different ways and it's the only number fans should care about. Average contract value means absolutely nothing.
In fairness, except in a year when a player collects his signing bonus, his cap number will never be lower than his cash earnings for that season. The signing bonus is the only element that gets amortized (which subsequently leads to the cap number being higher than cash earnings in the other seasons of the contract). So unless those QBs happened to receive a signing bonus in those seasons in which they won the SB, they didn't make more real dollars than their cap hit reflects.
Which will also happen with Beckham. Like Keith said the only number that matters is the cap number.
RE: RE: He should have been traded 2 years ago like I kept saying Â
1. Beckham coming off an injury without showing any signs of maturing?
2. An extra first round pick last year- even if it was a late first like Garret Bolles or Ryan Ramcyzk, An extra this year and a good cost controlled LB?
I don't see how you can pay Beckham his market rate. He's eventually going to be playing with a young QB who will need a year or so to get his bearings.
I'd rather have Odell than Bolles and a LB and it isn't even close.
argument is stupid. There's no direct correlation, just a lot of coincidence. You can do this with any position.
Take a look at the cap hits for QB's. Only 7 times from 1994-2016 did the winning team have a QB with taking up double digits in the cap hit.
Maybe we should have traded Eli for a couple of firsts before paying him. Cap Hit - ( New Window )
You know whats funny about that list? A large portion of those QB's probably made more money than 99% of the league, yet the cap hit may not say so. Why? Because the cap hit number can be manipulated in a number of different ways and it's the only number fans should care about. Average contract value means absolutely nothing.
In fairness, except in a year when a player collects his signing bonus, his cap number will never be lower than his cash earnings for that season. The signing bonus is the only element that gets amortized (which subsequently leads to the cap number being higher than cash earnings in the other seasons of the contract). So unless those QBs happened to receive a signing bonus in those seasons in which they won the SB, they didn't make more real dollars than their cap hit reflects.
Performance bonuses, roster bonuses, converting bonuses to salary, adding years, etc...there are a number of different ways to manipulate the cap number and the player would get paid more than their cap dollar. The Cowboys have players who adjust their contracts yearly and see more than their cap number. Obviously they are robbing peter to pay paul and will eventually have to pay the piper, but teams routinely do these things to massage the cap number.
Shit, apparently you can funnel money through their charities to save money on the cap, lol.
RE: RE: RE: He should have been traded 2 years ago like I kept saying Â
1. Beckham coming off an injury without showing any signs of maturing?
2. An extra first round pick last year- even if it was a late first like Garret Bolles or Ryan Ramcyzk, An extra this year and a good cost controlled LB?
I don't see how you can pay Beckham his market rate. He's eventually going to be playing with a young QB who will need a year or so to get his bearings.
I'd rather have Odell than Bolles and a LB and it isn't even close.
Re-read
I read it fine. That "extra first" isn't an actual player. Give me the guy who has proven to play at an elite NFL level.
all the more reason to have great weapons for a young, cheap QB, or do I have that wrong?
QBs don’t take 4 years to develop anymore - if they do they likely aren’t starting caliber anyway. And having less talent around them while they are devloping may be the dumbest thing Ive ever heard.
RE: He wants to be the highest player in the NFL Â
There is more than just the money. I am not a fan of tying up a large percentage of cap into a WR. Throw in that OBJ has some diva in him. He has acted a certain way(not that bad IMO) How is he going to act once he has enough guaranteed money to ensure his ancestors don't ever need to work? I would rather spend those dollar on OL or pass rushers.
His contract has absolutely nothing to do with whether his ancestors had to work or not. His descendants are another matter.
There is more than just the money. I am not a fan of tying up a large percentage of cap into a WR. Throw in that OBJ has some diva in him. He has acted a certain way(not that bad IMO) How is he going to act once he has enough guaranteed money to ensure his ancestors don't ever need to work? I would rather spend those dollar on OL or pass rushers.
His contract has absolutely nothing to do with whether his ancestors had to work or not. His descendants are another matter.
Maybe he has his ancestors frozen like Ted Williams and is just waiting til he has the money to bring them back
He's like a MORE immature JPP. Good thing we tossed that money away.
Look I know it sucks- but you can't win with guys like that. Give me the guy who busts his ass 24/7 and isn't a looney toon even if he has less talent every single day.
He's like a MORE immature JPP. Good thing we tossed that money away.
Look I know it sucks- but you can't win with guys like that. Give me the guy who busts his ass 24/7 and isn't a looney toon even if he has less talent every single day.
You really aren’t making much sense on this thread. If anyone busts their ass 24/7 it’s Beckham. And considering he didn’t blow his hand off I’d say he’s more moreture than JPP.
You don’t like the guy, just say it and move on. Because everything you are describing is immeasurable and trivial.
Quote:
Julio had a cap hit 13.9m in 2017....Could live with that considering his game, loses some speed still could be productive. Julio contract - ( New Window )
Dude, if you sign OBJ to a 6-100 deal, his first year cap is going to be lower than that probably. You do understand that, right?
Front-loaded deals are not the great solution that many people think they are. By the end of the deal, the contract is already being surpassed by others at his position, and with most of the high-value years in the rearview mirror, it almost invites a holdout from the player to get a new deal, which means you never really benefit from the cheaper years.
Quote:
In comment 13827861 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
Julio had a cap hit 13.9m in 2017....Could live with that considering his game, loses some speed still could be productive. Julio contract - ( New Window )
Dude, if you sign OBJ to a 6-100 deal, his first year cap is going to be lower than that probably. You do understand that, right?
Probably not lower, but close. How much guaranteed? If you did make it lower it just makes the rest higher, you understand that right?
We can afford it being higher in a year or 2 when Eli is off the books and our QBs are Webb and/or another draft pick.
What year did Arizona win a SB?
It's amazing that "Hicks" is probably the only part of your post that's even close to accurate, and it's also wrong.
Quote:
In comment 13827861 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
Julio had a cap hit 13.9m in 2017....Could live with that considering his game, loses some speed still could be productive. Julio contract - ( New Window )
Dude, if you sign OBJ to a 6-100 deal, his first year cap is going to be lower than that probably. You do understand that, right?
Probably not lower, but close. How much guaranteed? If you did make it lower it just makes the rest higher, you understand that right?
I do. I also understand that he signed that contract in 2015. Do you understand that you need to factor in inflation and the rising cap?
Quote:
I think Larry Fitzgerald was one of the highest paid WR's when they won the SB too.
What year did Arizona win a SB?
Sorry the year they were in the SB and lost a close game. Should we just remove Fitz because the didn't win the SB? His cap number is prob why Warner threw that INT to Harrison.
Quote:
In comment 13827886 Keith said:
Quote:
I think Larry Fitzgerald was one of the highest paid WR's when they won the SB too.
What year did Arizona win a SB?
Sorry the year they were in the SB and lost a close game. Should we just remove Fitz because the didn't win the SB? His cap number is prob why Warner threw that INT to Harrison.
Psst, I'm on your side. Doesn't mean I can't correct you at the same time.
Well, philosophically, we can do both...........soooooo.
Your philosophy has been proven wrong. Again, take a look every year at the top WR's in football and I would bet most are on contending teams. Too many things factor in to which team actually wins that you can't just say it's becasue teams are paying their WR's too much. AB has been paid as a top WR for years and for years they are legit SB contenders. Same for Julio. Dez was making top money when Dallas was making their run. Philosophically, you are wrong.
The real reason is that you don't like Odell and that's fine, but lets not hide that behind the money.
Quote:
There is more than just the money. I am not a fan of tying up a large percentage of cap into a WR. Throw in that OBJ has some diva in him. He has acted a certain way(not that bad IMO) How is he going to act once he has enough guaranteed money to ensure his ancestors don't ever need to work? I would rather spend those dollar on OL or pass rushers.
Your philosophy has been proven wrong. Again, take a look every year at the top WR's in football and I would bet most are on contending teams. Too many things factor in to which team actually wins that you can't just say it's becasue teams are paying their WR's too much. AB has been paid as a top WR for years and for years they are legit SB contenders. Same for Julio. Dez was making top money when Dallas was making their run. Philosophically, you are wrong.
The real reason is that you don't like Odell and that's fine, but lets not hide that behind the money.
In 3 seasons Odell is averaging about 12 TD's per season. If he started his rookie season healthy, it would probably be 13 TD's per season. He's also averaging about 1375 yards to Fitzgeralds 1100 yards per season. Fitzgerald is a superstar. He's an awesome player and seems like a great dude, Odell is better at football.
In 3 seasons Odell is averaging about 12 TD's per season. If he started his rookie season healthy, it would probably be 13 TD's per season. He's also averaging about 1375 yards to Fitzgeralds 1100 yards per season. Fitzgerald is a superstar. He's an awesome player and seems like a great dude, Odell is better at football.
$30M signing bonus with first 3 seasons salary gtd:
Year 1: 8M salary(13M cap hit)
Year 2: 10M salary(15M cap hit)
Year 3: 12M salary(17M cap hit)
Year 4: 12M salary(17M cap hit)
Year 5: 13M salary(18M cap hit with a 10M dead cap hit if released before season)
Year 6: 15M salary(20M cap hit with a 5M dead cap hit)
$30M signing bonus with first 3 seasons salary gtd:
Year 1: 8M salary(13M cap hit)
Year 2: 10M salary(15M cap hit)
Year 3: 12M salary(17M cap hit)
Year 4: 12M salary(17M cap hit)
Year 5: 13M salary(18M cap hit with a 10M dead cap hit if released before season)
Year 6: 15M salary(20M cap hit with a 5M dead cap hit)
Outside of Odell, our offense has been inept since he came into the league. Teams never had to respect the running game. Teams never really had to respect any other WRs/TEs on the field. Teams always keyed on Odell and he still put up better numbers than 99% of the league. He's just not stoppable. He's the only guy in the league that is a threat to score a TD from everywhere on the field.
If you are suggesting that signing Beckham somehow makes it less likely that they win a Superbowl that is idiocy, if that's not the suggestion then the argument itself is meaningless nonsense. Which is it?
1. Beckham coming off an injury without showing any signs of maturing?
2. An extra first round pick last year- even if it was a late first like Garret Bolles or Ryan Ramcyzk, An extra this year and a good cost controlled LB?
I don't see how you can pay Beckham his market rate. He's eventually going to be playing with a young QB who will need a year or so to get his bearings.
Listen...he is getting 8 this year. If we Franchised him the following year he gets say $17M...probably not that much.
If you sign him now...you get a discount for doing so. Look at Nicks, he never got paid. OBJ knows he needs to get his money NOW. He will take a discount to get it. One hit and it is all over.
We shouldn’t have traded him 2 years ago and we shouldn’t trade him now. What funniest bout this suggestion is Reese and McAdoo would have gotten to use those supposed picks from Beckham which would have been awesome, right?
We have someone who structures great contracts and we aren’t in cap he’ll nor will be with a fully paid Beckham. It’s unreal how people don’t see this.
If you are suggesting that signing Beckham somehow makes it less likely that they win a Superbowl that is idiocy, if that's not the suggestion then the argument itself is meaningless nonsense. Which is it?
1. Beckham coming off an injury without showing any signs of maturing?
2. An extra first round pick last year- even if it was a late first like Garret Bolles or Ryan Ramcyzk, An extra this year and a good cost controlled LB?
I don't see how you can pay Beckham his market rate. He's eventually going to be playing with a young QB who will need a year or so to get his bearings.
I'd rather have Odell than Bolles and a LB and it isn't even close.
Take a look at the cap hits for QB's. Only 7 times from 1994-2016 did the winning team have a QB with taking up double digits in the cap hit.
Maybe we should have traded Eli for a couple of firsts before paying him.
Cap Hit - ( New Window )
You also can't let him walk away because of money when you are paying your 37 year old, twilight of his career, QB elite money. You let Eli go and sign Odell if you are that limited with money. The Giants aren't, but the point remains.
The next point is regarding the cap. It's not like the NBA, you can easily manipulate contracts in the NFL to make it work. The Giants have plenty of levers to pull to create money when needed, it shouldn't be a concern at all. Certainly not of a concern where you let a superstar go.
Take a look at the cap hits for QB's. Only 7 times from 1994-2016 did the winning team have a QB with taking up double digits in the cap hit.
Maybe we should have traded Eli for a couple of firsts before paying him. Cap Hit - ( New Window )
You know whats funny about that list? A large portion of those QB's probably made more money than 99% of the league, yet the cap hit may not say so. Why? Because the cap hit number can be manipulated in a number of different ways and it's the only number fans should care about. Average contract value means absolutely nothing.
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argument is stupid. There's no direct correlation, just a lot of coincidence. You can do this with any position.
Take a look at the cap hits for QB's. Only 7 times from 1994-2016 did the winning team have a QB with taking up double digits in the cap hit.
Maybe we should have traded Eli for a couple of firsts before paying him. Cap Hit - ( New Window )
You know whats funny about that list? A large portion of those QB's probably made more money than 99% of the league, yet the cap hit may not say so. Why? Because the cap hit number can be manipulated in a number of different ways and it's the only number fans should care about. Average contract value means absolutely nothing.
Spot on
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argument is stupid. There's no direct correlation, just a lot of coincidence. You can do this with any position.
Take a look at the cap hits for QB's. Only 7 times from 1994-2016 did the winning team have a QB with taking up double digits in the cap hit.
Maybe we should have traded Eli for a couple of firsts before paying him. Cap Hit - ( New Window )
You know whats funny about that list? A large portion of those QB's probably made more money than 99% of the league, yet the cap hit may not say so. Why? Because the cap hit number can be manipulated in a number of different ways and it's the only number fans should care about. Average contract value means absolutely nothing.
In fairness, except in a year when a player collects his signing bonus, his cap number will never be lower than his cash earnings for that season. The signing bonus is the only element that gets amortized (which subsequently leads to the cap number being higher than cash earnings in the other seasons of the contract). So unless those QBs happened to receive a signing bonus in those seasons in which they won the SB, they didn't make more real dollars than their cap hit reflects.
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with the "When was the last time someone won a SuperBowl with a WR/RB" bullshit?
If you are suggesting that signing Beckham somehow makes it less likely that they win a Superbowl that is idiocy, if that's not the suggestion then the argument itself is meaningless nonsense. Which is it?
There is this thing called a salary cap. It limits the amount of money teams can spend per year on players. So it is resource management. Putting a large cap number into a WR, considering how vulnerable they are when hit and how much they depend on their speed and explosiveness, we as Giant fans know they are one injury away from being out of the league. What if Nicks or Cruz had a contract like Odell wants? It isn't signing Beckham that makes it less likely we win a a SB. It is HOW MUCH we sign him for...How much is too much for BEckham...At what point would you say no?
We’d have a 3-13 year like we just did, which is better than an 8-8 year whether fans want to endure it or not.
There’s a risk even with trading, you can end up with another Flowers and no Beckham because you didn’t want to fork over some cap room which is easily manipulated.
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In comment 13828006 ajr2456 said:
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argument is stupid. There's no direct correlation, just a lot of coincidence. You can do this with any position.
Take a look at the cap hits for QB's. Only 7 times from 1994-2016 did the winning team have a QB with taking up double digits in the cap hit.
Maybe we should have traded Eli for a couple of firsts before paying him. Cap Hit - ( New Window )
You know whats funny about that list? A large portion of those QB's probably made more money than 99% of the league, yet the cap hit may not say so. Why? Because the cap hit number can be manipulated in a number of different ways and it's the only number fans should care about. Average contract value means absolutely nothing.
In fairness, except in a year when a player collects his signing bonus, his cap number will never be lower than his cash earnings for that season. The signing bonus is the only element that gets amortized (which subsequently leads to the cap number being higher than cash earnings in the other seasons of the contract). So unless those QBs happened to receive a signing bonus in those seasons in which they won the SB, they didn't make more real dollars than their cap hit reflects.
Which will also happen with Beckham. Like Keith said the only number that matters is the cap number.
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Which would you rather have right now?
1. Beckham coming off an injury without showing any signs of maturing?
2. An extra first round pick last year- even if it was a late first like Garret Bolles or Ryan Ramcyzk, An extra this year and a good cost controlled LB?
I don't see how you can pay Beckham his market rate. He's eventually going to be playing with a young QB who will need a year or so to get his bearings.
I'd rather have Odell than Bolles and a LB and it isn't even close.
Re-read
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In comment 13828006 ajr2456 said:
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argument is stupid. There's no direct correlation, just a lot of coincidence. You can do this with any position.
Take a look at the cap hits for QB's. Only 7 times from 1994-2016 did the winning team have a QB with taking up double digits in the cap hit.
Maybe we should have traded Eli for a couple of firsts before paying him. Cap Hit - ( New Window )
You know whats funny about that list? A large portion of those QB's probably made more money than 99% of the league, yet the cap hit may not say so. Why? Because the cap hit number can be manipulated in a number of different ways and it's the only number fans should care about. Average contract value means absolutely nothing.
In fairness, except in a year when a player collects his signing bonus, his cap number will never be lower than his cash earnings for that season. The signing bonus is the only element that gets amortized (which subsequently leads to the cap number being higher than cash earnings in the other seasons of the contract). So unless those QBs happened to receive a signing bonus in those seasons in which they won the SB, they didn't make more real dollars than their cap hit reflects.
Performance bonuses, roster bonuses, converting bonuses to salary, adding years, etc...there are a number of different ways to manipulate the cap number and the player would get paid more than their cap dollar. The Cowboys have players who adjust their contracts yearly and see more than their cap number. Obviously they are robbing peter to pay paul and will eventually have to pay the piper, but teams routinely do these things to massage the cap number.
Shit, apparently you can funnel money through their charities to save money on the cap, lol.
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In comment 13827978 ThatLimerickGuy said:
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Which would you rather have right now?
1. Beckham coming off an injury without showing any signs of maturing?
2. An extra first round pick last year- even if it was a late first like Garret Bolles or Ryan Ramcyzk, An extra this year and a good cost controlled LB?
I don't see how you can pay Beckham his market rate. He's eventually going to be playing with a young QB who will need a year or so to get his bearings.
I'd rather have Odell than Bolles and a LB and it isn't even close.
Re-read
I read it fine. That "extra first" isn't an actual player. Give me the guy who has proven to play at an elite NFL level.
QBs don’t take 4 years to develop anymore - if they do they likely aren’t starting caliber anyway. And having less talent around them while they are devloping may be the dumbest thing Ive ever heard.
His contract has absolutely nothing to do with whether his ancestors had to work or not. His descendants are another matter.
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There is more than just the money. I am not a fan of tying up a large percentage of cap into a WR. Throw in that OBJ has some diva in him. He has acted a certain way(not that bad IMO) How is he going to act once he has enough guaranteed money to ensure his ancestors don't ever need to work? I would rather spend those dollar on OL or pass rushers.
His contract has absolutely nothing to do with whether his ancestors had to work or not. His descendants are another matter.
Maybe he has his ancestors frozen like Ted Williams and is just waiting til he has the money to bring them back
He's like a MORE immature JPP. Good thing we tossed that money away.
Look I know it sucks- but you can't win with guys like that. Give me the guy who busts his ass 24/7 and isn't a looney toon even if he has less talent every single day.
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reading that nonsense the first time.
He's like a MORE immature JPP. Good thing we tossed that money away.
Look I know it sucks- but you can't win with guys like that. Give me the guy who busts his ass 24/7 and isn't a looney toon even if he has less talent every single day.
You really aren’t making much sense on this thread. If anyone busts their ass 24/7 it’s Beckham. And considering he didn’t blow his hand off I’d say he’s more moreture than JPP.
You don’t like the guy, just say it and move on. Because everything you are describing is immeasurable and trivial.