..at best. The Giants would be truly stupid to give this guy a deal at all.
Being the best OL guy on a team who has XFL players all over the OL is nothing to brag about. Pugh is grossly overrated, and a low character guy who ca chooses not to play.
..at best. The Giants would be truly stupid to give this guy a deal at all.
Being the best OL guy on a team who has XFL players all over the OL is nothing to brag about. Pugh is grossly overrated, and a low character guy who ca chooses not to play.
A rare post without a single fact. Low character? Where did you come up with this nonsense?
..at best. The Giants would be truly stupid to give this guy a deal at all.
Being the best OL guy on a team who has XFL players all over the OL is nothing to brag about. Pugh is grossly overrated, and a low character guy who ca chooses not to play.
A rare post without a single fact. Low character? Where did you come up with this nonsense?
Quit on the the team - a guy goes into contract year, a continues to miss PT year after year. At some point you have to question the guy's ticker, but I know you aren't smart enough to put that together. The only single fact is that you are giving Pugh a pass, because you are too dumb to know any better.
and very versatile guy to have in your bag. Leave that decision to DG who is considered to be excellent at OL talent evaluation. DG wants to win as much as any of us here..
..at best. The Giants would be truly stupid to give this guy a deal at all.
Being the best OL guy on a team who has XFL players all over the OL is nothing to brag about. Pugh is grossly overrated, and a low character guy who ca chooses not to play.
A rare post without a single fact. Low character? Where did you come up with this nonsense?
Quit on the the team - a guy goes into contract year, a continues to miss PT year after year. At some point you have to question the guy's ticker, but I know you aren't smart enough to put that together. The only single fact is that you are giving Pugh a pass, because you are too dumb to know any better.
Try civility. Or just leave the site. You've posted garbage since joining.
Quit on the the team - a guy goes into contract year, a continues to miss PT year after year. At some point you have to question the guy's ticker, but I know you aren't smart enough to put that together. The only single fact is that you are giving Pugh a pass, because you are too dumb to know any better.
When did he quit on his team? It is easy to throw accusations around without any proof. I am smart enough to trust facts over ridiculous speculation. Don't let facts get in the way of your agenda.
I think He’s a good to very good guard who is never healthy. I can see how people can disagree on that. But no one sane thinks he can be relied upon for 16. Games. He’s never healthy. No thanks unless the contract is w huge incentives for actual games played
I think He’s a good to very good guard who is never healthy. I can see how people can disagree on that. But no one sane thinks he can be relied upon for 16. Games. He’s never healthy. No thanks unless the contract is w huge incentives for actual games played
When Pugh was first starting out with the Giants, this person claimed that Pugh was a completely clean player and had not and would not do steroids. This person said based on that, Pugh had a limited future and that most of the NFL players were on steroids. He said that the players are given enough advance notice to clean up to pass the test and those that get caught are the ones too addicted to steroids. Look at the before and after photos of Snee and come to your own conclusions.
It was nothing more than ESPN expressing an opinion. No mention in it on DG's or PS's opinions. As with many BBIer, I'm a big Justin P. fan, but with his injury history I don't believe the team should give him the big payday or get in a bidding war for his service. As much cap space as the Giants have, there are 20 teams with more, plus they still have to figure out how to extend OBJ and Collins.
...at least try to work out a fair deal with him, perhaps something with escalators and/or incentives based on games active. If there's a team out there willing to give him Kevin Zeitler money, well, then good luck to him. Norwell is the only potential free agent OL worth that kind of money.
If the Giants can find a way to sign Norwell, Pugh, and Fluker in free agency, trade Flowers for a late round pick, and draft one of the top interior OL in round 2, preferably Price, the Giants OL will be good enough for the offense to function at whatever level the skill players allow for (rather than vice versa).
From left to right: Wheeler Norwell, Price, Fluker, Pugh
Backups (L to R): Pugh, Jerry, Jones, Jerry, Fluker
kind of surprising. He did a good job run blocking, but the Giants need a pass blocking RG, also. I suppose Fluker at $4 mill for 3 years would be ok, but more?, forget it.
The thing I like about Pugh is he can play 4 of the 5 positions Â
This is extremely important as we start rebuilding the line, because who know who we get. Pugh gives us flexibility in the search, plus he plays at a good-to high level. Obviously the issue is staying healthy, which is a problem. If he had stayed healthy most of the seasons he'd be demanding big bucks. I'd try to sign him for a deal that makes sense for us. I wouldn't be breaking the bank, but there is certainly a lot of value to us for keeping him.
kind of surprising. He did a good job run blocking, but the Giants need a pass blocking RG, also. I suppose Fluker at $4 mill for 3 years would be ok, but more?, forget it.
I think Fluker can be had for a reasonable price, but we'll see. I think he fits with "the culture" that Gettleman would like to create. He is a great locker room guy!
but he’s not durable enough to spend over $10M per season on. We’d be better off trusting our new scouts and rolling the dice and on two cheaper players that the front office thinks might be undervalued.
means Flowers is staying at left tackle? Gettleman's first move is to bench him and to state publicly that Reese was ignoring the o-line's deficiencies, i.e. that playing a guy who was terrible just because he was a first round pick was a disaster. And how can anyone expect him to be better at right tackle? Most teams have two pass rushers and his technique issues aren't going away on the right side. He may make a + player at guard. it's his only hope of being in the league after next year.
RE: He's too good and too versatile for the Giants not to.... Â
...at least try to work out a fair deal with him, perhaps something with escalators and/or incentives based on games active. If there's a team out there willing to give him Kevin Zeitler money, well, then good luck to him. Norwell is the only potential free agent OL worth that kind of money.
If the Giants can find a way to sign Norwell, Pugh, and Fluker in free agency, trade Flowers for a late round pick, and draft one of the top interior OL in round 2, preferably Price, the Giants OL will be good enough for the offense to function at whatever level the skill players allow for (rather than vice versa).
From left to right: Wheeler Norwell, Price, Fluker, Pugh
Backups (L to R): Pugh, Jerry, Jones, Jerry, Fluker
Solid post on Pugh, Milton, and agree: his value really lies in his versatility. But there's a limit and Zeitler wasn't even worth Zeitler money.
The Giants should NOT bring back a single starting interior OL from last season. It will not matter what scheme they run- zone-block, power run, spread offense- doesn't matter: not one of them has the ability going forward to be an effective interior OL.
Pugh can blame injuries if he wants, but I believe that a LOT of his rep comes from his 1st round draft pedigree as opposed to actual production on the field. He wants to be paid the going rate for OG- which is somewhere between $10-14M depending on the perceived longevity of the player.
However, Pugh already has a bad back, and has had numerous other injuries- no need throwing good money after bad. His performance when on the field does not justify paying him- and add in the injuries- and it is an easy question to answer whether to re-sign him or not.
The Giants are better off pursing whichever OG is not signed in Carolina, targetting a solid vet at C who has a year or two left (and draft a replacement in the mid-rounds), and then find a servicable OG vet at the other spot. Move Flowers to RT and sign an aging LT type who won't demand super money. Draft a projectable OT in the 2nd-3rd round. Let Wheeler compete, but no guarantees.
Most of all- decide on an offensive scheme and play call to that sceheme. Coach the OL on the best techniques to be successful in that scheme- all things that we lacking the past several years.
There are solid skill position players (except at RB). Deciding what you want to do and the best OL for that scheme will be the key. But right now, not a single guy from the Giants 2017 interior OL should be brought back because they don't offer enough going forward to bother with.
"I want to win. I want to win now, I'm excited for the first chance to choose where I play and the situation that I'm in. I’ve been in five years. I only made the playoffs one time."
"Yeah, I think so," Pugh said when asked if he will be a hot commodity.
Doesn't really sound like someone who's coming back.
And Get Fleming from NE. Draft Hernandez in round 2. We may have to let Flowers and Wheeler fight it out for LT for one more year.
Flowers/Wheeler, Norwell, Jones, Hernandez, Fleming is a much better line than we have had here in 5 years.
You can bet the ranch that DG will bring in a new LT and at least a guard via FA. There is no way he is going to let LT go another year with Flowers and or Wheeler. It is the most important slot on the line.
If the terms are right, at least he can play half the games a year. But if you're rebuilding, why roll the dice with him? I'd rather have a healthy young guy learning.
Richburg isn't even JAG, he's terrible. Jones is JAG so we already have a better center on the roster.
will protect the team from truncated seasons due to injury....it is a smart move. He has the skills just needs to stay on the field. I bet the money is front ended and fair but jumps if he is on the field. I wager 3 yrs with an avg of 7 yrs but jumps to 10-12 depending on bonuses met.
God no. He's a league average OG whose best position is RT with an extensive history in concussion protocol. He's also clearly not 'the voice' to motivate these guy from within as he had that opportunity and they consistently sucked on his 'watch'.
The good news is Roto is just another media clickbait establishment with no chops for getting any of this stuff correct.
he's a solid OL. But, as others have mentioned before, he simply can not stay on the field. You don't shell out big contracts for guys who can't actually put the pads on. Then you have to pay him AND a quality backup. Just give me a guy with a clean injury history and lets get to work.
(Wheeler and Bisnowaty) yet. We all knew last year that these guys were developmental projects. Wheeler did a decent job near the end of the year even though he usually had some help.
Bisnowaty got lucky and was penciled in vs. the Skins in the season finale. Kerrigan was able to get 2 sacks off him and I believe 2 penalties too. There was no help given to Adam. IMO, he looked better than Hart ever did.
It is possible these 2 guys are working their asses off to make the team and it would be a damn shame if they don't get a shot in pre-season at being a starter.
Even if just 1 of them make it to starting tackle in 2018, it will be a big plus for the Giants.
you can say goodbye to Norwell. There's no way they spend 20 million per on interior linemen, and LG is the best position for both players.
They couldn't be planning a LT move for Pugh could they? Seems like he'd be there already if he had the ability to start at LT on the regular.
There are too many teams with more cap space. The Giants are going to find it difficult to sign any of the top FAs
That's just the usual doom and gloom. They can't spend on multiple free agents, but they certainly have the money to get Norwell unless you expect him to get 20 mil.
But he's been over his head since he was drafted. He's basically another 1st round Jerry Reese mistake. IF he's willing to take vet minimum (or just a bit over, to save face), I'd sign him up as a reserve, that's all.
When Pugh was first starting out with the Giants, this person claimed that Pugh was a completely clean player and had not and would not do steroids. This person said based on that, Pugh had a limited future and that most of the NFL players were on steroids. He said that the players are given enough advance notice to clean up to pass the test and those that get caught are the ones too addicted to steroids. Look at the before and after photos of Snee and come to your own conclusions.
Don't write off the kids
mrvax : 2/11/2018 3:06 pm : link : reply
(Wheeler and Bisnowaty) yet. We all knew last year that these guys were developmental projects. Wheeler did a decent job near the end of the year even though he usually had some help.
Bisnowaty got lucky and was penciled in vs. the Skins in the season finale. Kerrigan was able to get 2 sacks off him and I believe 2 penalties too. There was no help given to Adam. IMO, he looked better than Hart ever did.
It is possible these 2 guys are working their asses off to make the team and it would be a damn shame if they don't get a shot in pre-season at being a starter.
Even if just 1 of them make it to starting tackle in 2018, it will be a big plus for the Giants.
I wouldn't be surprised to see both of them start.....and if they do, we will be in the same shit hole we were last season......we need 4 starters, and Flowers will only be a one year starter at a new position, that we have no idea if he can handle....
It just amazes me that BBI thinks we have the money to go out and get top FA's for the OL, and that we are going to hit on draft picks this year and solve our OL problems....it's not happening in one year....not to mention the problems we have at linebacker, CB, S, RB, WR, and DE....
This is a several year rebuild, and to hang onto Eli and his CAP, when we will not be going anywhere for the next two seasons makes no sense.....time to start the rebuild now.....
This off season will be a good indication, of whether this ownership is committed to it's future or will the same "we are only 1 or 2 players away" attitude, that we have had for the last 6 seasons, prevails....
Being the best OL guy on a team who has XFL players all over the OL is nothing to brag about. Pugh is grossly overrated, and a low character guy who ca chooses not to play.
Being the best OL guy on a team who has XFL players all over the OL is nothing to brag about. Pugh is grossly overrated, and a low character guy who ca chooses not to play.
A rare post without a single fact. Low character? Where did you come up with this nonsense?
Quote:
..at best. The Giants would be truly stupid to give this guy a deal at all.
Being the best OL guy on a team who has XFL players all over the OL is nothing to brag about. Pugh is grossly overrated, and a low character guy who ca chooses not to play.
A rare post without a single fact. Low character? Where did you come up with this nonsense?
Quit on the the team - a guy goes into contract year, a continues to miss PT year after year. At some point you have to question the guy's ticker, but I know you aren't smart enough to put that together. The only single fact is that you are giving Pugh a pass, because you are too dumb to know any better.
Quote:
In comment 13828822 TheVette said:
Quote:
..at best. The Giants would be truly stupid to give this guy a deal at all.
Being the best OL guy on a team who has XFL players all over the OL is nothing to brag about. Pugh is grossly overrated, and a low character guy who ca chooses not to play.
A rare post without a single fact. Low character? Where did you come up with this nonsense?
Quit on the the team - a guy goes into contract year, a continues to miss PT year after year. At some point you have to question the guy's ticker, but I know you aren't smart enough to put that together. The only single fact is that you are giving Pugh a pass, because you are too dumb to know any better.
Try civility. Or just leave the site. You've posted garbage since joining.
Quit on the the team - a guy goes into contract year, a continues to miss PT year after year. At some point you have to question the guy's ticker, but I know you aren't smart enough to put that together. The only single fact is that you are giving Pugh a pass, because you are too dumb to know any better.
When did he quit on his team? It is easy to throw accusations around without any proof. I am smart enough to trust facts over ridiculous speculation. Don't let facts get in the way of your agenda.
Try civility. Or just leave the site. You've posted garbage since joining.
Clearly a dupe.
Quote:
Try civility. Or just leave the site. You've posted garbage since joining.
Clearly a dupe.
Absolutely.
I think He’s a good to very good guard who is never healthy. I can see how people can disagree on that. But no one sane thinks he can be relied upon for 16. Games. He’s never healthy. No thanks unless the contract is w huge incentives for actual games played
Quote:
most, but I doubt they spend big buck on him.
I think He’s a good to very good guard who is never healthy. I can see how people can disagree on that. But no one sane thinks he can be relied upon for 16. Games. He’s never healthy. No thanks unless the contract is w huge incentives for actual games played
agreed
Flowers/Wheeler, Norwell, Jones, Hernandez, Fleming is a much better line than we have had here in 5 years.
I'd rather keep panning for gold among undrafted rookies until a free agent that has a shot of earning his contract comes onto market.
I agree.
Also need some level of starting material to show up at OTAs and he would be where I would spend some money...
If the Giants can find a way to sign Norwell, Pugh, and Fluker in free agency, trade Flowers for a late round pick, and draft one of the top interior OL in round 2, preferably Price, the Giants OL will be good enough for the offense to function at whatever level the skill players allow for (rather than vice versa).
From left to right: Wheeler Norwell, Price, Fluker, Pugh
Backups (L to R): Pugh, Jerry, Jones, Jerry, Fluker
How can you not love this guy!? - ( New Window )
If the Giants can find a way to sign Norwell, Pugh, and Fluker in free agency, trade Flowers for a late round pick, and draft one of the top interior OL in round 2, preferably Price, the Giants OL will be good enough for the offense to function at whatever level the skill players allow for (rather than vice versa).
From left to right: Wheeler Norwell, Price, Fluker, Pugh
Backups (L to R): Pugh, Jerry, Jones, Jerry, Fluker
Solid post on Pugh, Milton, and agree: his value really lies in his versatility. But there's a limit and Zeitler wasn't even worth Zeitler money.
Pugh can blame injuries if he wants, but I believe that a LOT of his rep comes from his 1st round draft pedigree as opposed to actual production on the field. He wants to be paid the going rate for OG- which is somewhere between $10-14M depending on the perceived longevity of the player.
However, Pugh already has a bad back, and has had numerous other injuries- no need throwing good money after bad. His performance when on the field does not justify paying him- and add in the injuries- and it is an easy question to answer whether to re-sign him or not.
The Giants are better off pursing whichever OG is not signed in Carolina, targetting a solid vet at C who has a year or two left (and draft a replacement in the mid-rounds), and then find a servicable OG vet at the other spot. Move Flowers to RT and sign an aging LT type who won't demand super money. Draft a projectable OT in the 2nd-3rd round. Let Wheeler compete, but no guarantees.
Most of all- decide on an offensive scheme and play call to that sceheme. Coach the OL on the best techniques to be successful in that scheme- all things that we lacking the past several years.
There are solid skill position players (except at RB). Deciding what you want to do and the best OL for that scheme will be the key. But right now, not a single guy from the Giants 2017 interior OL should be brought back because they don't offer enough going forward to bother with.
"Yeah, I think so," Pugh said when asked if he will be a hot commodity.
Doesn't really sound like someone who's coming back.
Flowers/Wheeler, Norwell, Jones, Hernandez, Fleming is a much better line than we have had here in 5 years.
You can bet the ranch that DG will bring in a new LT and at least a guard via FA. There is no way he is going to let LT go another year with Flowers and or Wheeler. It is the most important slot on the line.
Richburg isn't even JAG, he's terrible. Jones is JAG so we already have a better center on the roster.
The good news is Roto is just another media clickbait establishment with no chops for getting any of this stuff correct.
Health issues tend to get worse - not better - over time.
Even healthy, he is a solid but not great OL. I don’t think he’s worth even half of the going rate for premium guards.
Anything more than John Jerry money is throwaway money.
Bisnowaty got lucky and was penciled in vs. the Skins in the season finale. Kerrigan was able to get 2 sacks off him and I believe 2 penalties too. There was no help given to Adam. IMO, he looked better than Hart ever did.
It is possible these 2 guys are working their asses off to make the team and it would be a damn shame if they don't get a shot in pre-season at being a starter.
Even if just 1 of them make it to starting tackle in 2018, it will be a big plus for the Giants.
They couldn't be planning a LT move for Pugh could they? Seems like he'd be there already if he had the ability to start at LT on the regular.
They couldn't be planning a LT move for Pugh could they? Seems like he'd be there already if he had the ability to start at LT on the regular.
Quote:
you can say goodbye to Norwell. There's no way they spend 20 million per on interior linemen, and LG is the best position for both players.
They couldn't be planning a LT move for Pugh could they? Seems like he'd be there already if he had the ability to start at LT on the regular.
There are too many teams with more cap space. The Giants are going to find it difficult to sign any of the top FAs
That's just the usual doom and gloom. They can't spend on multiple free agents, but they certainly have the money to get Norwell unless you expect him to get 20 mil.
But he's been over his head since he was drafted. He's basically another 1st round Jerry Reese mistake. IF he's willing to take vet minimum (or just a bit over, to save face), I'd sign him up as a reserve, that's all.
Left tackle is a bigger need; that screams Nate Solder.
Then IF the Giants could negotiate a trade back with the Browns to grab Nelson, 2/3 of the problem is solved.
The draft can provide the Center issue with either Ragnow or Bozeman.
If we had the cap space - Solder & Norwell, then Barkley with our #2 over-all.
Huh.
mrvax : 2/11/2018 3:06 pm : link : reply
(Wheeler and Bisnowaty) yet. We all knew last year that these guys were developmental projects. Wheeler did a decent job near the end of the year even though he usually had some help.
Bisnowaty got lucky and was penciled in vs. the Skins in the season finale. Kerrigan was able to get 2 sacks off him and I believe 2 penalties too. There was no help given to Adam. IMO, he looked better than Hart ever did.
It is possible these 2 guys are working their asses off to make the team and it would be a damn shame if they don't get a shot in pre-season at being a starter.
Even if just 1 of them make it to starting tackle in 2018, it will be a big plus for the Giants.
I wouldn't be surprised to see both of them start.....and if they do, we will be in the same shit hole we were last season......we need 4 starters, and Flowers will only be a one year starter at a new position, that we have no idea if he can handle....
It just amazes me that BBI thinks we have the money to go out and get top FA's for the OL, and that we are going to hit on draft picks this year and solve our OL problems....it's not happening in one year....not to mention the problems we have at linebacker, CB, S, RB, WR, and DE....
This is a several year rebuild, and to hang onto Eli and his CAP, when we will not be going anywhere for the next two seasons makes no sense.....time to start the rebuild now.....
This off season will be a good indication, of whether this ownership is committed to it's future or will the same "we are only 1 or 2 players away" attitude, that we have had for the last 6 seasons, prevails....